Story land and the Botanical Gardens are closed today :/ there’s two windows on the back of the Two Sisters Pavilion building that resembles the clock, but I’ll admit it’s far from a unique design.

I did review it. Are you saying we shouldn’t think that Preiss said that and that Egbert was lying? He had just gotten back from meeting him and posted it right then so it’s not like he had to recall.
None of the interviews with the Chicago teenagers have ever said that they were stockbrokers or more importantly, that there was something concrete/stone over the dig site. It leads me to believe that a third casque was found and Preiss got the city wrong.
I mean, he basically gave them the answer when he sent them a picture of the dig site, plus they were teenagers, not stock brokers. Not the same and weird details to get wrong.

I don’t know I take Egbert account just written as what was said by preiss. After 20 years I guess priess forgot. He did not remember meeting them so ….

Steph53282

I did review it. Are you saying we shouldn’t think that Preiss said that and that Egbert was lying? He had just gotten back from meeting him and posted it right then so it’s not like he had to recall.
None of the interviews with the Chicago teenagers have ever said that they were stockbrokers or more importantly, that there was something concrete/stone over the dig site. It leads me to believe that a third casque was found and Preiss got the city wrong.
I mean, he basically gave them the answer when he sent them a picture of the dig site, plus they were teenagers, not stock brokers. Not the same and weird details to get wrong.

I am not SAYING anything. I am trying to get YOU to ask questions and answer them for yourself.

Dude, you have way too hot of a head. Step away.
This forum is to discuss ideas and theories but you are being an ass about everything. Your post history says all I need to know about you. Just don’t reply to my posts if you don’t like what I’m writing or get a counselor for your temper.

Just got back. I prodded several spots but did not get any definitive results. I did get one very encouraging one though.
The problem is this area used to be Storyville….the ground is literally littered with bricks and stone from what used to be brothels. I would hit a brick every other time I prodded and I made about 50 or more attempts. Have blisters on my hands from it.
I don’t see this happening without using GPR first, because the park is probably not going to allow someone to dig just on a hunch. I think it has to be located, the exact spot, first then the request to dig may be granted.
I’m not one to try and sneak in at night and do it, I’d rather do it the right way because it’s going to significantly disturb the area and I if I can dig it up I want my daughter to be there. So it looks like other people say they know the spot on here and maybe they will go that route if they really do know but I was out there all afternoon today and yesterday and I didn’t see anyone else prodding. It would be kind of shitty to dig a hole out there and not have it confirmed before you do it. That would definitely upset the park officials and probably ruin any future attempts.
I will tell you guys that the definitive tell in the picture is the background. The topology is unmistakeable. Take the clock, the hand and the mask out of the equation and the background is a map of the area. Even the shadowing and pattern is relevant to the landmark.

“At a place where jewels abound”.. Maybe he is just talking about the French quarter
” 15 rows down to the ground”.. Reference to the monteleone hotel. It has 15 floors. Also, well known for famous writers to stay there. Plus, in the picture, everything begins with the clock. So, he steps out the hotel and wants to take us on a stroll with him.
“in the middle of twenty one from end to end”.
To me end to end is the key here. Monteleone is on royal Street but not long enough. But if you extend it from Poydras street to elesian fields, which many people do anyway, there are 21 blocks. I believe there are 21 chess board squares on the pic. So he walks outside the hotel, walks alongside the poles with the horses heads, the middle of 21 is directly behind st louis cathedral.
“only three stand watch”.. I believe this to be either the 3 steeples of the cathedral or the three buildings next to each other: the cabildo, st. Louis cathedral, and the presbytere. Here you are exactly at the beginning of Orleans ave.
“as the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours”. My reasoning here might very well be flawed. But, as you walk down orleans ave Good Friends bar is on the corner of Orleans and dauphine. It is always busy and can surely here people having a good time.
Now, you have to go to the picture. I believe that everyone who connected the louis armstrong entrance arch is correct. Because as you look forward as you’re strolling you run smack into the entrance. Suppose, the clock is showing midnight and the stars and the moon back that theory up. If you find a picture of this on the internet, everything about the entrance appears on the picture. Even the moon is perfectly placed.
On the pic, both arrows point to preservation. Replace “preservation” with “ARMSTRONG”. To me, this is a dead ringer. Also, you literally walk down royal within a half block of preservation hall. Plus, armstrong park is all about the preservation of jazz.
If all of this is right, I went a couple of days ago and I believe the picture and verse lead you right to it. Within an inch.
I didn’t even realize it for sure, till hours later. BP knew burying something in new orleans without an attachment wasn’t too bright. When I looked at the picture again, WOW. Now, I am not saying that it’s 100% there, but I would be quite shocked if it is not. I’m also sure that my mind is probably manufacturing facts and images. So we shall see. I would love some imput back please. After I came to this conclusion, I joined this group to see what I missed. So much great work on here. And now I grew more convinced.

Unknown

Unknown:
Because Palencar has always insisted that only Preiss knew the locations,

Fine. But it should be clear by now that Palencar knows a whole lot more about the puzzle than he claims. And that he is contractually, but more importantly, honor bound to keep Preiss’ secrets. As someone who is still actively trying to solve the puzzle and dig up a casque (and believe me, these are two separate things) I admire his integrity.

Glossiphoniidae

frankly, what makes them “older” members.

Umm…the year they created a username for the first time perhaps? If you have been working on the puzzle or have been using this forum for more 4+ years, I would say that you are an older member. Stop playing the age card.

I’m not trying to be a dick, it’s just that my daughter and I put a lot of time in to it and it was incredibly fun for us.
Yes you did it effortlessly. I don’t think you have “a lot” time into it. You spent total 5 hours???? walking around

Stevbri5

I went a couple of days ago and I believe the picture and verse lead you right to it. Within an inch…I would love some imput back please.

Euhirudinea

Fine. But it should be clear by now that Palencar knows a whole lot more about the puzzle than he claims. And that he is contractually, but more importantly, honor bound to keep Preiss’ secrets. As someone who is still actively trying to solve the puzzle and dig up a casque (and believe me, these are two separate things) I admire his integrity.

Well, if you’re suggesting it’s in Louis Armstrong Park, then sure, it’s a popular idea, but no-one has ever identified a specific place. (I don’t know how much damage and restructuring it’s undergone since 1982, but I would guess, quite a lot. It’s the landscape changes that have made
The Secret
almost impossible to solve.)
Agreed.
(I still wish someone would try pestering Sean Kelly about Montreal though, maybe he’d break more easily.
)

Glossiphoniidae

frankly, what makes them “older” members.

Glossiphoniidae

Understanding that you haven’t “figured it out” until you’ve dug it up is why the “older members” get so mad… [it’s] frankly, what makes them “older” members.

It’s not an age-in-years thing at all, I’m explaining the experience card. Reread.

I’ve spent 42 years in this City. I know it backwards and forwards. So I guess you could say I only spent “4 hours” or you could say I looked at the puzzle a week ago, actually walked it like the puzzle master intended and experienced everything that was meant to be experienced.
If you’ve spent years working on it and you couldn’t figure it out, perhaps you should find another hobby? Or maybe actually come to New Orleans like Preiss intended?
Maybe I should just check out of this forum. I thought folks would be interested in the shared experience but it looks to me like it so much piss and vinegar.

WhiteRabbit

It’s the landscape changes that have made
The Secret
almost impossible to solve.

So, it’s not the fact that we don’t know how to interpret the image and verse, or rather that we can logically interpret them anywhere and everywhere?
Chicago 35 years later… unchanged. All clues present. Still solvable.
Cleveland 35 years later… unchanged. All clues present. Still solvable.
Every other puzzle 35 years later… unsolvable due to landscape changes.

d

Dambala

I looked at the puzzle a week ago, actually walked it like the puzzle master intended and experienced everything that was meant to be experienced.

Dambala

If you’ve spent years working on it and you couldn’t figure it out, perhaps you should find another hobby?

Dambala

Or maybe actually come to New Orleans like Preiss intended?

ffs. with all due respect, you aren’t the first person to do this. or the second. or the tenth, hundreth, or even thousanth. you are, by my estimation, the 2,653rd person who thinks they have, by some combination of skill, luck, and/or proximity to a casque city solved a puzzle. only two groups have. the rest have done almost exactly what you claim to have done, with similar results.
this is what many have done… same thing over and over until it’s stale and they gave up… the definition of insanity… doing the same thing over and over with the same result. the casque is gone, the clues are gone, time has passed, the puzzle was shit, preiss was stupid, sensitive area, can’t get permission, ad naseum.
i like to think we’re stupid, the puzzle is just fine, and that it is indeed a puzzle. the man was a genius ffs.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?160896-1/electronic-publishing-expo
instead of finding a new hobby, maybe find a new method and try to get a different result? maybe warn others of the insanity method when you do?
implying i haven’t even once, let alone many times over. it’s not familiarity with the area, or lack thereof, that is the major stumbling block to the puzzle, as the good people of Milwaukee or Roanoke or Houston will tell you.

Stevbri5

If I am right, the picture even tells you where it is down to the inch.

Welcome to the forum. It’s a forum because people want to have discussions. The regulars here will get snippy with strangers who come to a place meant for talking and deliberately announce that they can’t talk about it. I think that’s a generic complaint in every forum I’ve ever been in.
Old-timers will also point out that the book has verses for a reason. The picture can only get you to a city and maybe an area within that city. It might have visual confirmers that you are on the right path or nearing the spot, but the painting was not intended to point to a specific spot to dig. We believe that only the cryptic clues in the matching verse will get you within inches of the site. (But of course, disclaimer as always, it only takes one dug-up casque to prove us wrong)

OK. Suppose in the picture the purple vase is the casque. The hand coming out of it is holding onto something. I contend it is a metal rod. This tells me that the casque is attached to this metal rod. This makes sense to me because of new orleans’ volatile soil. I saw this metal rod 2 days ago. AND
It is DIRECTLY BELOW “the namesakes meeting near the sight” reference in the verse.

Also, I am quite certain that the route I took was part of an old parade route. BTW, most parades used to have their balls there.

I’m leaving out alot because so much to write, but I will if you want. I am just trying to explain in a logical way.

Unknown

Unknown:
Maybe I should just check out of this forum. I thought folks would be interested in the shared experience but it looks to me like it so much piss and vinegar.

I have been on this forum about 14 years. Some may read the old-timers’ responses to newbies and think they are being snippy. In their defense, it is maddening when someone new joins the forum, claims they know exactly where the casque is, and says something like this:
That’s the whole point – it’s a forum! Its purpose is to foster a shared experience, but no details about the solution were offered. Tell us your route, your reasoning, etc. Show us photographs. Lead us through the logic, and we will help you by either contradicting elements of your theory or by offering new insights. Think of it like peer review. For this to be a proper form, you need to share what you find.
Otherwise, what’s the point?

Glossiphoniidae

Chicago 35 years later… unchanged. All clues present. Still solvable.

Ten by thirteen…? Surely not…?
C’mon, we all know they were all buried under trees, and beavers felled the lot. It’s definitely gotten harder anyroad.

forest_blight

Lead us through the logic…

Here’s some questions you should all be asking yourselves, especially in New Orleans where two of you have apparently found the casque, down to the square inch, in two different spots. BTW, I found it down to the square inch at 6 different spots myself, and I’m certain you’ll find more too.
If each and every one of us can, and we all have – including me, lead each other through the logic of our solves using the same damn image and verse, and all 85% of those solves are “logical,” aren’t we all right? Be honest with yourselves… it is only personal bias which makes you think some solves are better than others.
Interestingly, we are all wrong ever single time.
How can you believe the puzzle was designed this way? At least 100 different “correct” and logical solves for each I/V combination? This is analogous to Byron creating a puzzle where he states the casque is at something green (which is what he
seemingly
did). You find a tree, he finds a fence, she finds a lamppost, xhe finds avocado toast, Eric finds grass-eating dog shit. They’re all green, right? And then Preiss says, “Sorry, not that green thing. Keep finding green things! You just gotta find the right green thing!”
This is what you all are proposing these puzzles are… some ambiguous and highly interpretative/subjective images and text wherein you can find thousands of “correct” solutions. And you just keep looking for more green things, never stopping to think it isn’t
green
you are looking for, but something of a different
genre
… that maybe it is just sleight of hand or obfuscation?
Do you really think it’s just landscape and time that has changed and made the puzzles harder? Is the only difference b/w Chicago and Montreal time? Are you telling me we could find the casque in Montreal easily (or as easily as Chicago) if it was 1982? How about the casque in New York or Boston? Be honest.

WhiteRabbit

Ten by thirteen…? Surely not…?

Serious question… Have you ever visited and counted the trees for yourself?
Have you ever seen or read which trees were counted from the solvers? Have they ever clearly stated or shown they understood where they were digging exactly and why? The Expedition Unknown interview contradicts the solution put out by the guys earlier and the 1980s interview on news. In none of those cases do they state which trees were counted and how. Which was ten? Which was 13? Which one was gone?

Unknown

Unknown:
Interestingly, we are all wrong ever single time.

Not every single time. The Forum is 1 for 2,653 by your estimation.

Euhirudinea

Not every single time. The Forum is 1 for 2,653 by your estimation.

Considering Brian was on his way to Philly (which only reinforces what I have been saying) and just so happened to be redirected, and then wasn’t the guy who found it or dug it up…
ohfor

Unknown

Unknown:
ohfor

Check your math. The Cleveland casque was a collaborative find, just like Chicago. I just don’t count Chicago in the tally since their work predates the Forum by 10 years.
So, like I said, 1 for 2,653.

Euhirudinea

Check your math. The Cleveland casque was a collaborative find, just like Chicago. I just don’t count Chicago in the tally since their work predates the Forum by 10 years.
So, like I said, 1 for 2,653.

In the spirit of truth… Fair enough.

Re: Cleveland
Postby Egbert » Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:24 pm
Egbert meet Byron Priess and he asked about the Chicago casque, how it was found and by who
“1. The Chicago casque was found by 2 young stockbrokers, who lived in Chicago, and had recognized some of the sites and verse references right away. However, at the time, there was some type of renovation occurring, in which a large marble or concrete object had been placed over the burial site. So, they took a picture of it, and sent it to B.Preiss, who acknowledged that as soon as the renovation was finished, the treasure was theirs. He doesn’t recall meeting them, doesn’t have a copy of any newspaper article, but does recall that an article was run in one of the major Chicago newspapers at the time. Flipping through the book, B.Preiss told us that “M and B” stand for Mozart and Beethoven. “Ten by thirteen” refers to feet. “Brush” refers to the Art Museum.”

Doghousereiley

Re: Cleveland

Comprehension and analysis is not your strongpoint.

Doghousereiley

Re: Cleveland
Postby Egbert » Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:24 pm
Egbert meet Byron Priess and he asked about the Chicago casque, how it was found and by who
“1. The Chicago casque was found by 2 young stockbrokers, who lived in Chicago, and had recognized some of the sites and verse references right away. However, at the time, there was some type of renovation occurring, in which a large marble or concrete object had been placed over the burial site. So, they took a picture of it, and sent it to B.Preiss, who acknowledged that as soon as the renovation was finished, the treasure was theirs. He doesn’t recall meeting them, doesn’t have a copy of any newspaper article, but does recall that an article was run in one of the major Chicago newspapers at the time. Flipping through the book, B.Preiss told us that “M and B” stand for Mozart and Beethoven. “Ten by thirteen” refers to feet. “Brush” refers to the Art Museum.”

Say what? How is that possible when we know it was 3 teenagers? Maybe another location has been found but he just misspoke and said Chicago? I know the quote says M & B, but maybe he just added the two together and there is a 3rd one that was found????!!!! It’s hard to mistake teenagers for stockbrockers.

Wait, what…? I’m getting confused. “Re: Cleveland” was quoted from the original post. Two of the finders were apparently 18 and 19…is that old enough to be a stockbroker…? I dunno. BP was in such a muddle by that stage that he couldn’t tell the gems apart any more. At least, I think that’s what happened.

My contention and I don’t know the man but I think Byron Priess forgot exactly where he buried them. He could remember the cities and would confirm that much. Anything else he seems to respond ” I will check the vault”. Egbert said the answers were not in the vault.
Priess doesn’t remember meeting the Chicago finders. Egbert said he had 10 assistants working for him in 2004. That he was a busy man and he had moved on from the book.
My guess is the answers were lost before Priess died

So I am assuming the original post was a forum post that was quoted from Egbert (the co-founder of the Cleveland casque) about what Preiss said when he met with him when picking up the jewel (from the Cleveland casque).
So, it may be possible that since it was so long ago (20 years at that point), he just got confused and thought they were stockbrokers.
OR
There is another casque that was found in another city that had cement or stone placed over it temporarily and they never ended up picking up the stone. I think this is the most possible since the teenagers (don’t you have to be 21 to be a stock broker?) didn’t mention anything about cement covering the location (and it was found within a year), that there is another solve that happened that we aren’t aware of.

I am assuming Byron Priess forgot, got his facts mixed up
The entire post is fascinating. It is on page 10 of 12 of this forum so I had to do some digging
Egbert says
Priess had 25,000 dollars of savings bonds (matured at that point I assume) in his vault with the stones that he forgot about
How do you forget about 25 grand?

Please feel free to review
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=772&start=165#p134008

Dambala

Maybe I should just check out of this forum. I thought folks would be interested in the shared experience

We’re very interested in new observations, and I hope you stick around and post some. Like four21thrasher says, we occasionally get people dropping in to say they’ve solved it, they give no details, and then they disappear again, so there’s plenty of scepticism about that. Remember that some of the folks here have been working on this thing for decades, discussing ideas openly on this forum, and earlier forums that are now long gone like the
American Treasure Hunt
. People that have conversed with Preiss and Palencar, have found a casque, and have unravelled everything that was shown in Expedition Unknown, so have a bit of patience with the place.
…incidentally, which verse are you using, and does it all make sense…? Because Palencar has always insisted that only Preiss knew the locations, so the verse is likely to be critical in finding the exact spot.

Yes it is, as in, “deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.”

I believe the clock is not a complete photograph, but is very likely this clock, located at the Whitney Bank headquarters on St. Charles Ave in New Orleans, across the street from the St. Louis Exchange Hotel’s location and down the street from Lafayette Square.
There are certain tells. Look at the corner of the clock and look at the corners of our painting’s clock. See how the circle that comprises the clock face “pops out” at the very top? The clock pictured here does the same thing. And the small bands between the “arrows” and the outer clock face are duplicated as well.
It isn’t a perfect 100% copy, but there are enough stylistic components, and the “IV” could be due to JJP changing the clock face from western numerals to roman numerals. It’s adjacency to two major parts of this hunt is very compelling. There are elements surrounding it that I’d like pictures of, they’re for my next trip to NOLA.
I’d be very surprised if this isn’t a straightforward jaunt toward Lafayette Sq by way of the French Quarter -> Canal St -> St Charles Ave. As I posted in the verse 2 thread, the French Quarter is 15 streets aligned in perfect rows or grids.
Here is a shot I took of the horse on the Jackson statue back at Jackson Square. I fail to see how the horse/LA outline in Image #7 is anything else, the open mouth is a complete giveaway, as are the flared nostrils, ear position, etc.
I met a tour guide in NOLA who told me the certification exam for tour guides is based around a book which I’ve ordered from my university library. It’s a history book that contains an entire section full of obscure statues they need to memorize.

I know, ain’t this ridiculous?

If you go to Street View, around the larger sidewalk arc of the “turquoise” fountain are black wrought iron posts, which may have been lights at one time. The are a similar shape to the clock in Image 7.
I think there were originally 14 or 15 posts. Can’t really tell.

So I would like to advance a theory, although I haven’t put every verse to use yet.
The casque could be buried in Coliseum Square Park. The park is in the Garden District, and BP seemed to be attracted to gardens.
https://goo.gl/maps/o3ZPCVgf55t
If we orient the map so Camp Street is running N-S, Presevation Hall is along the axis of the park, where the clock hands in Image 7 are pointing.
If you picture the park as being in the palm of the hand, the stick and mask lines up with the top of the park at Camp Street and Calliope, which is roughly 15 blocks from Preservation Hall. I even found a map of the Lower Garden District that looks similar to the hand.
https://www.nola.gov/nola/media/HDLC/hd … cts_v1.pdf
The mask sits on the statue of Margaret Haughery, which actually looks a lot like the mask. Especially after seeing the screen grab of Expedition Unknown and the supposed mask used for the image. Read about her here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Haughery
Margaret Haugherty has been discussed before, and she was an immigrant that gave to the city in numerous ways. Including an orphanage next to the park, St. Vincent’s Infant Asylum.
Look at the gallery of photos. Specifically the clock tower.
https://www.stvguesthouse.com/gallery-1/
https://billchance.org/2012/11/10/st-vi … est-house/
The gargoyle on the clock tower is similar to the flying boy, and fits in with the theme of the Loups Garoux. The weathervane on the clock tower also look very similar to the hands on the clock in Image 7.
The orphanage was built by Union Troops. A sovereign people built it for orphans to rest their heads for a night waiting to be adopted.
There is a fountain in the park named after Barthelemy Lafon. Read about him here and pay attention to his accomplishments. He is buried in St. Louis Cemetery #1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barthelemy_Lafon
This fountain is a half circle and matches the area above the clock where the turquoise is shown. It was functional in the early 1980s.
https://nola.curbed.com/2016/4/19/11462 … n-fountain
Also in the park, to the south is another fountain, which is round. If we line up the paths leading to the fountain with the darker hash marks surrounding the roman numerals on the clock face, it is a decent match for 1:30, 4:20 and 9:10. Not exact but close. If we look at 9 o’olck, or 2100 hours possibly indicted by the clock being at nighttime, in this orientation that could be where the cask is buried. In the middle of the grass between the fountain and Coliseum Street. There is a little section of trees and if you are using Google Street View, you can currently see a rope swing. The worn out spot on the ground is a likely candidate.
As a bonus, I also found this house across the street from the park at 2874 Coliseum St. Look at the window on the front.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9361771 … 312!8i6656
Running into Coliseum Street are nine roads named after the muses. This could also be a reference to namesakes meeting.
So in summary we have:
At the place where jewels abound – French Quarter at Preservation Hall
Fifteen rows down to the ground – 15 blocks to Margaret Haughery statue
In the middle of twenty-one
From end to end – 9:00 at night on Image 7 when looking at fountain
Only three stand watch – Not sure about this…
As the sound of friends
Fills the afternoon hours – Park or orphanage
Here is a sovereign people – Union Army
Who build palaces to shelter – St. Vincent’s Ophanage
Their heads for a night! – Short term, waiting for adoption
Gnomes admire
Fays delight – in the muses
The namesakes meeting – 9 streets named after muses
Near this site – The casque
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9352444 … a=!3m1!1e3

gManTexas

The casque could be buried in Coliseum Square Park.

Ah, yeah, I used to like
this
for the turquoise.

WhiteRabbit

Ah, yeah, I used to like
this
for the turquoise.

I’ve read yours and other peoples posts. I got excited because I think I ferreted out a few more clues.

THE CHOICE IS A WEBSITE NUTCASE AND NEEDS TO BE BANNED. JUST RESEARCH HIS COMMENTS HERE ON NUMEROUS THREADS..PROBABLY SCHIZOPHRENIC..

My previous comment stands and proven to have merit now. You are unstable. Leave and seek help.

Nuts. I had just centered on Lafayette Square and was considering that very spot.

Can anybody post a pic of the piece was mentioned in the podcast that has the face in it?

The question has been raised before and criticized for lack of evidence that there is no importance for the spacial location of the jewel position as drawn. I think I have something here that may have been missed by recent onlookers.
If you consider verse 2 mentions the quantity “15 rows” and apply that to the count of checkerboard rows on image 7, then you can see it demonstrated that the location of the turquoise is exactly 15 rows verticle distance to the base of the stick and mask where it looks like a shape of a spoon is hiding in the sleeve.
When I study this visual comparison, I think its worth noting the spacial reference of the circular moon to the Francisco plaque and the lower right side vertical line of the clock to the vertical edge of the retaining wall and then that distance relative to the spoon/digspot.

I have a few quick questions, erexere. I am going to try to keep questions and answers simple here because I am going to try and engage you in a conversation regarding logic.
For your therory… tell me if I got this right…
1) at the place where jewels abound (where the casque is)
2) fifteen rows down to the ground (the 15 rows you drew, that align the base step to 21)
3) in the middle of 21 (i.e., #2 gets you to 21)
4) from end to end (in the neutral ground, from statue 1 to 3)
5) only three stand watch (there are three statues)
And, of course, there is all the evidence with the graveyard and the 21st marker, and supporting/confirming evidence in the image as well.
If I got this close, or close to correct, then I think your theory is totally plausible. I like what you did there.
Did I get close, or close to correct?

Glossiphoniidae

I have a few quick questions, erexere. I am going to try to keep questions and answers simple here because I am going to try and engage you in a conversation regarding logic.
For your therory… tell me if I got this right…
1) at the place where jewels abound (where the casque is)
2) fifteen rows down to the ground (the 15 rows you drew, that align the base step to 21)
3) in the middle of 21 (i.e., #2 gets you to 21)
4) from end to end (in the neutral ground, from statue 1 to 3)
5) only three stand watch (there are three statues)
And, of course, there is all the evidence with the graveyard and the 21st marker, and supporting/confirming evidence in the image as well.
If I got this close, or close to correct, then I think your theory is totally plausible. I like what you did there.
Did I get close, or close to correct?

Close. This is a good opportunity for me to clear up some things to do with unnecessary variables that deter us from the solution.
1) The first line of verse: I suspect there’s something in it to help the searcher feel more confident about their conclusion. I don’t know how this works for all the puzzles, but I’ve kept a close eye out for some motif that fits this idea. I’m thinking that “abound” might be the important word in the line, whether it’s “great(est) in number” or “a bound”, like a place that requires a great leap, since the statue is marooned up on it’s pedestal (11 stairs more needed to get it to the ground).
2) The fifteen rows takes some patience and understanding. I’ve illustrated it by drawing what looks like arbritrary lines on a photo off the internet. This should be verified by someone on site. Take a measure tape, measure the height of the four steps that are present, then measure the height of the pedestal to the statue’s feet. See how mathematically correct it would be (i.e. rounding properly and not making crappy estimations). 15 rows or stair steps has two variables: vertical and horizontal distance. I don’t know if Preiss expects just one or both of the variables to be important. The number “21” as its positioned on the plaque of the statue might be used as a point of reference running perfectly parallel to the street. Long ago, I cooked up a theory about using the tomb numbers across the street, but I don’t think it’s necessary or as compelling to seek out that information. The steps and the plaque on the statue are all you need to keep this simple and precise.
3) “In the middle” might qualify as a clue to the middle of the neutral ground or that the words Central American appear on the plaque just above the number “21”.
4 and 5) Yes. That’s correct.
This feels right when I consider the reasons that might apply for Preiss to have selected the quote from Sarmiento, a South American president. All three of the statues on Basin street were also leaders of countries in the Americas. The Francisco Morazan statue of Central America works as a place where “namesakes” of Amerigo Vespucci meet.

I hear you. So, I think I understand pretty good now. You clearly have a pretty straightforward interpretation with confirming evidence.
You and I both know that there are spots in Armstrong Park, Lafayette Park, City Park, et al., that all fit too, right? With confirming evidence too, right? Yes, or no?

Yes, you make a good point. The main difference might just be that I “like” my own theory just as others “like” the other plausible locations, but I honestly don’t feel good about any other location because whether the information conveying the theory is clashing with my subjectivity or that I find that their “pick and choose” dependency absolutely random and disjointed in the scope of generating a sane puzzle that’s not just some undiciplined scavenger styled hunt.

Exactly. So, did Priess intent for us to find 10 different spots at 10 different parks using one of a number of verses?
Or let’s say we got the verse/image combo right… did Preiss intend for us to find 10 different spots at 5 different parks?
Are we just supposed to dig them all (i.e., you “know you are right cause you have a casque in hand”)? Yes or no?

Good questions.
I’m leaning towards “No”. I think Preiss put all his effort into making the puzzle as consistent with his view of the Fair Folk lore and found 12 interesting locations around the country and chose the best words he knew to be coy in reference to locations supported by some visuals and some jewelometry that would make sense only to the person who totally gets what is going on.
I think it’s our burden to dig all over the place and perceive some things as red-herring, because that’s a by product of our being lost in the game.

erexere

Good questions.
I’m leaning towards “No”. I think Preiss put all his effort into making the puzzle as consistent with his view of the Fair Folk lore and found 12 interesting locations around the country and chose the best words he knew to be coy in reference to locations supported by some visuals and some jewelometry that would make sense only to the person who totally gets what is going on.
I think it’s our burden to dig all over the place and perceive some things as red-herring, because that’s a by product of our being lost in the game.

Your statements kinda conflict. Either Preiss didn’t intend for it (leaning toward “No”), or he did (our burden is to dig all over).
If he did intend for it, we are digging multiple holes in multiple places within a single, typically historically important park; and, we are doing that within multiple parks within a single city to eventually find the casque. Right?
If he didn’t intent for that, does it erase the above dilemma (i.e., interpreting the clues and finding multiple different spots within a “park,” and the same thing at multiple parks within a city)?

Say those statements conflict if you like. I say “No” because I think Preiss has no control over my assumptions. He provided enough material in each puzzle to support his case and the unintended yet real consequence is that people may think up a reason for any interesting spot to dig.

erexere

I can say those statements conflict if you like. I say “No” because I think Preiss has no control over my assumptions. He provided enough material in each puzzle to support his case and the unintended yet real consequence is that people may think up a reason for any interesting spot to dig.

If Preiss has no control over our assumptions, and clearly several assumptions are equally as plausible in a single park, let alone several parks within a city, is that problematic? As agreed (and as seen in reality), we would be digging all fucking over the place.
Does the fact that we are doing so mean it is an “unintended” consequence?

I mustve had too much caffeine. My head is spinning as I think on all the crap Ive considered over nearly 3000 posts.
The logic of these puzzles is: figure out how they work, dig at your own risk.

erexere

I mustve had too much caffeine. My head is spinning as I think on all the crap Ive considered over nearly 3000 posts.
The logic of these puzzles is: figure out how they work, dig at your own risk.

Seems like you, as well as others, including myself, have been preferring dig spots and trying to substantiate them with subjective evidence.
Ask questions of yourself, erexere. Quit proffering solutions. Why is your digspot better than any other, as we currently understand the puzzle? It ain’t. Why is Armstrong Park better than City Park or Lafayette Park or vice versa, as we currently understand the puzzle? It ain’t.
All solutions, within some obvious bounds, are acceptable right now. Why?

Here’s a fun exercise…
Justify for me that the Cleveland casque is in the Italian Gardens… I know you can.
Now, why ain’t it? Only because it wasn’t found there?

I must forgo the essays unto which this convo may dither.
There are still things I don’t understand about Cleveland. I think it’s worth looking at the contrast as you have pointed out in the exercise to explain why the Italian garden wasn’t as viable a location for the Greek casque especially given my proposal for the French casque to be found at the feet of a Honduran Presidente in an Italian explorer named land. My head hurts to think about it, but how should we explain these things to give credence to our methods?
I think the right question is to ask what the first line of verse offers and then build slowly and thoughtfully from there. Cleveland offers up “beneath two countries” and what I’ve come to think works best is that line means “border” or “boundary”. The Roman god of boundaries was known as Terminus. Ancient Greek and Roman cultures have their similarities as neighboring regions. I think it’s clear that the Nymphs of Hellas enjoyed playing in the Italian gardens as much as their Greek garden…testing their boundaries.
The first line of V2 “at the place where jewels abound” seems to have many possibilities, but I think the Fays of France compared their rare turquiose to a blue midsummer’s day because they wanted us to think about a Saint. (St. John and the custom of finding hidden treasues out in open spaces). I think part of this puzzle also needs us to take on a pespective that leads us to a sense of royalty and a spot along Saint Louis street, named after King Louis IX, works for my Gardens of the Americas theory. I think it’s important for a theory to reconcile with the Litany of the Jewels and the introductory lore about the Fair Folk coming to the New World. I think there’s got to be something that would represent each Fair Folk’s preference to their spot. Maybe it was the circular plaque on Francisco reminded them of the moon. Maybe it was the nearness to a cemetery or the street named after a good French king. Maybe it was Francisco’s slicked back hair, his killer threads and size 19 shoes.

erexere

I must forgo the essays unto which this convo may dither.

erexere

There are still things I don’t understand about Cleveland. I think it’s worth looking at the contrast as you have pointed out in the exercise to explain why the Italian garden wasn’t as viable a location for the Greek casque
especially given my proposal for the French casque to be found at the feet of a Honduran Presidente in an Italian explorer named land
.

erexere

My head hurts to think about it, but how should we explain these things to give credence to our methods?

erexere

I think the right question is to ask what the first line of verse offers and then build slowly and thoughtfully from there.
Cleveland offers up “beneath two countries” and what I’ve come to think works best is that line means “border” or “boundary”. The Roman god of boundaries was known as Terminus. Ancient Greek and Roman cultures have their similarities as neighboring regions. I think it’s clear that the Nymphs of Hellas enjoyed playing in the Italian gardens as much as their Greek garden…testing their boundaries.
The first line of V2 “at the place where jewels abound” seems to have many possibilities, but I think the Fays of France compared their rare turquiose to a blue midsummer’s day because they wanted us to think about a Saint. (St. John and the custom of finding hidden treasues out in open spaces). I think part of this puzzle also needs us to take on a pespective that leads us to a sense of royalty and a spot along Saint Louis street, named after King Louis IX, works for my Gardens of the Americas theory.

erexere

I think it’s important for a theory to reconcile with the Litany of the Jewels and the introductory lore about the Fair Folk coming to the New World. I think there’s got to be something that would represent each Fair Folk’s preference to their spot.
Maybe it was the circular plaque on Francisco reminded them of the moon. Maybe it was the nearness to a cemetery or the street named after a good French king. Maybe it was Francisco’s slicked back hair, his killer threads and size 19 shoes.

Thank you. Remember… keep it short and sweet. You’ll get more out of it.
No, it’s a worthwhile task in and of itself. Again, quit proffering solutions… Ask more questions.
Bingo. The first important question you have asked in years.
Remember… you were going to forgo the essays, so I crossed them out. Back to your point though… this is absolute bullshit. What in the hell makes you think this is the right question to ask?
Again, absolute bullshit. What in the hell makes you think this is important?
Remember, you are trying to figure out a puzzle. All you have is wild guesses and subjectively interpreted verses and images.
Your first question should be, “What do I need to solve this puzzle?” No?

Didn’t kibitz say around the 21st?
Still going?

oops, my bad!
just anxious for someone to dig!
good to see you’re still around cormac

Brother-in-law counted and there are 21 and in the middle of them is the John Mac statue with what looks like the boy from the clock. However, they look younger than 32 years old.
I’ve been trying to track down c1980 photos of Lafayette Square. No luck yet.

We have discussed rows before, mostly in Charleston, but a while back near the Cathedral as well. I never really got anywhere. Maybe others did. The posts were replaced after Katrina, and several of the original wooden posts had been knocked out of the ground before that, seen in a pic from 1996 I’m not sure when the last time all the wooden posts were present. I’ve got an aerial from 1932 and 1961, but they aren’t visible in either. What is visible, is the same manhole covers within the park, and the geodetic marker (rotate image counterclockwise once = 29 90).

animatedgeoff

Brother-in-law counted and there are 21 and in the middle of them is the John Mac statue with what looks like the boy from the clock. However, they look younger than 32 years old.
I’ve been trying to track down c1980 photos of Lafayette Square. No luck yet.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zmtegdnm0d56he5/AAApquh8N-tscXqMwH1bjVpCa
– c1980 posts. Look hard to find ’em. Then, piece ’em together. Notice they are not in the same position as the new ones

Glossiphoniidae

“Gnomes admire” Ben Franklin and his advice/quotes about guarding/hording your money, which are on the plaque at his feet…
The arm in the Image has that triangle in the sleeve(which matches his sleeve), and the triangle is the break in his jacket…

I like the idea. Simple, and relates subtly to the verse. Assuming that the brick stack (pump house?) has always had that many rows & columns, and is out, what do you think is the “fifteen rows down…and in the middle of twenty one”?
Have the parking barriers always been there, and/or have they been brought up? (I honestly have no idea anymore as to what all has been discussed…There is 20 or 21 on this side (hard to count with street view stitching frames together), but the middle of them would either be the middle of the walkway, or that landscaped area.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.94842,- … Ow!2e0!3e5

Yes, Jackson Square is highly unlikely……but what about right around it?

purple is indeed the major color for mardi gras.  Posted (i believe) in this thread are many other confirmers for mardi gras.  I think we will be hard pressed to put this P with another city….now lets just find the correct V.  How could P7 = anything but NO?
I really think that “image” I mentioned above is probably a statue.  All we need to do is get a good blow up of it and then find the original….then the N.O. casque will be close at hand.

Unknown

Unknown:
Ok, using this appx distance from Preservation Hall, you come to Jackson Square.
www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm

probably completely random, and flying in the face of all the work done on P8/V1, but the statue in the upper left image (the Grand Army of the Republic Memorial at Chalmette Cemetery) seems to have three things slight (and winged?) in the center of 4 alike (cannons)

Yay. At least THIS hunt makes sense.

Fox, congratulations on 1700 posts.  I’m only 1000 or so behind you!
wilhouse

Weeeeee… Thanks for pointing that out Wilhouse, I would have never noticed.
Just start rambling and you could make up those 1000 in no time.  Here is a little inspiration for you:

GM is right, there are 15+6.
You can count them if you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … atO3Zz39pc

You all realize that the configuration of the posts was 15 on the long side at Gallier Hall, right?

No, cause there are 16.

Choice

No, cause there are 16.

Damn Burnstyle…always lying to me.

I was wrong about the map overlay having a strong match in just one way.  There are several characteristics that work, like the moon as the Superdome, or the arm-hand-stick-mask fitting the Fair Grounds Race Track.  The hands match parts of the Margaret Park area and the circular arc of the clock matches a fountain in Coliseum Square Park.  The street names seem to follow the imagery with St. Louis and Touluse.  “Preservation” quickly becomes a label for the Jazz of New Orleans, but might also be a good way to say any “historical marker”, saved or preserved space.  Coliseum Square has such a past as it was planned to be made into a race track but instead preserved as a community park area.  The same could be said for almost any park, really.  Now that I think the jockey is holding a baseball mitt, I’m really unclear on what that has to do with a location.  I see a “Race St.” next to Coliseum Square Park.  If I go with a good strong baseball reference, I’d say Tulane Stadium, which was demolished, just north of the Audubon Park.  It fits the Olmstead design, but I don’t know how strong that kind of fit is.  More thinking to be done…

The “France”-cis Morazan statue has a plaque that says “CENTRAL” and “21”. I think this is a good “In the middle of twenty-one” connection.
“CENTRAL AMERICAN HERO”
“October 21, 1966”

Polymnia St. could be our “giant pole” with POL-ymnia.   In this case, the street Polymnia intersects with a line to the center of the fountain in Coliseum Square.  Perhaps we are to protract through it to the other side somewhere to a spot that also interesects with a line to the “giant step”.

WR et. al, I have had luck with my recent FB campaign and the sister of a friend living in NO would like to head over to CS within the next week before they hop on a plane to visit Oregon next Wednesday.  As it’s likely our experience, methods, opinions, and instincts differ, I’d appreciate any particular direction or input that I may convey to my contact so they can give it their best shot.  I’ll repost my most current ideas shortly just to run things by the community before moving forward.  If you prefer, please PM me or email me at
[email protected]
if you’d like me to consider anything in particular concerning the park area.  Thanks.

I have seen several photos from decades ago in the middle of the 1900s and the lamp posts were where they are today. There used to be several large trees in the square that were destroyed by Katrina but wouldn’t have affected my dog spot.

Poll:
Why does the hand have cracked/jagged nails?
Is it an effort to represent a visual trope for a hand rising up from a grave?

Anyone else think it says ‘DIG’ in the upper leg sock? Really nice find by the way.

I believe the clock looks like the door on preservation hall.  Take a look at the picture on this page with the line of people out front:
http://www.preservationhall.com/main.html

FYI, Fox has pointed out in another thread that 29 and 90 are the latitude/longitude coordinates of New Orleans.  This definitely refers to Preservation Hall.

Yes, Egbert, I am convinced this one is in NO, and somewhere around preservation hall. I will say though that there are not many open plots of ground there, perhaps near the river somewhere.
I like the observation that the face of the clock looks like a lock.
wilhouse

I still believe the harlequin looks like a jockey or baseball player.  Yet, his socks do look harlequin.

i didn’t listen to it. I figured it sucked cause it was oriented around malted falcon.

I cant think off the top off my head to be honest, as in the hint. for example, there are Roanoke and Manteo streets right by one another in SF. Treasure Island (Charelston hint) has Avenue of Palms on it (St Aug hint). there are others like that for other puzzles too. ill release more when I work through NO. lots of people have been messaging about their theories lol. been sidetracking me from this MTL essay ffs.

anus905

i didn’t listen to it. I figured it sucked cause it was oriented around malted falcon.

Wrong one. San Francisco came out last Wednesday. “It begins” came out on Friday. I can’t wait to hear your connections to the individual puzzles.
Should make for interesting reading…
Your journey has begun…

pretty sure hes aware. pretty sure hes also wrong so I’m good lol. he did a lot of great work to get there, and you do def have to go there for the complete puzzle. he just doesn’t realize he reinforced my spot as correct lol.

heres one of the clues that he first had and I added to…
chess connection to get to city park.
paul morphy was a chess champion from NO.
he was born and died there and is buried in St Louis Cemetary #1 (same cemetary you visit to see Laveaux’s Grave).
(his work)
(my contribution)
you actually take the knight character as reference
and you move 1-2 across (from st louis cemetary #1 to #2 and #3).
which takes you to the corner of city park near esplanade which acts as the second hand of the clock and takes you to the NOMA.
which is in City park.

Josh,
Wondering what connection you might have made from the latest Shhh podcast “It begins” to this puzzle.
I’m having trouble, thought you could shed some light.
Welcome to the journey.

And just where might you be digging? Good Luck! Unearth another one for these boards….and make sure to take lots of pictures.

I’m not doing the digging, but someone who read the book way back in the early days will be planting a new tree in it’s place.  This try will be in the Basin street neutral ground near St. Louis street.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap
red capped and liberty loving fays———–
sure looks like the dwarves at storyland (2nd picture with the dwarf and storyland sign)
http://4theloveofben.blogspot.com/2009/ … -park.html

With respect to Mardi Gras, I have only a weak understanding of the tradition.  I’m still not sure if each Krewe has it’s own king and queen or if there’s only one primary King and Queen.  I’m not sure how the selection process goes either.
Much of this image is the purple background.  Purple is noted as a significant color to the Krewe of Rex.
I had an idea that the flowers on the clock that look like the ones of City Park’s Storyville might be only a way of repeating the theme of 1980, “Flora of the Realm”.
1980 makes great sense because the 19th of February was Fat Tuesday.  The next most previous year where Fat Tuesday was the 19th was the year 1901.  Perhaps the 19 on the clock is only to pinpoint 1980, the year Preiss was burying the casque.

Choice

You call those posts? Just a thin wraparound fencing. Now come up with 15 down.

Dang you ask the toughest questions
turns out in 1981 prior to the remodel of the front of gallier hall, there was a different number of steps (but not my photo to share) so I will let you figure it out.
And the verse said middle of 21 not middle of 21 posts, for all you know its the middle of 21 frail wraparound fence sticks…

Choice

Moon clocks do have seconds hand. I already posted this site for reference if you are curious.
https://www.charlesedwin.com/Moondials.htm
If you didn’t fail your kindergarten class you would’ve known that minute hand is the bigger hand!
Not a compass but a weathervane. Notice the floating boys posture is similar to a typical archangel Gabriel weathervane.

My man you are clearly the most pathetic individual on this forum

Here’s a clear old image. 16 steps.

I’m just going to keep posting my random thoughts here; maybe they won’t get lost in the shuffle.
-Has anyone looked into the architecture/geography of the old Rivergate Convention Center (now the location of the Harrah’s casino) in any great detail? Wondering about a few potential matches to either the poem or the image. The RCC was the original site of the Joan of Arc statue, and while I realize that there is debate as to whether the hand in the painting has any relation to Joan’s hand, the jury’s still out on that one. Too, the roof was supported by twenty-one columns (divided into seven groups of three), and there was a sizable green space next to the building where a casque could potentially have been buried. Also, given that the RCC was frequently used for Mardi Gras balls, it’s not unreasonable to consider it as a potential “where jewels abound.”
-There’s a useful online book, with photos, about the RCC at
http://www.curtis.uno.edu/rivergate/htm … _text.html
.

Eastcoast

My man you are clearly the most pathetic individual on this forum

Here haters abound bud. Take a number. If you can’t take criticism or read a simple time on the clock correctly then maybe puzzle solving is not your thing.
Whining is sooo attractive. Keep it up my ol’ pal.

Choice

Here’s a clear old image. 16 steps.

I know! I can totally see how that would confuse you. Its the wrong angle.

maltedfalcon

I know! I can totally see how that would confuse you.

If you have an explanation just spit it out or there’s no point posting.

I heard on the podcast that someone got shot digging in a park in Nola. Anyone have info on that?

ok, mind you I have never been to NOLA
and this is not my find.
but the “steps” behind the pillars.
aren’t steps, they are the edges of planters.
From the door to the sidewalk, there are 15 steps. the top steps have raised edges to the right and left.

BrandonH

I heard on the podcast that someone got shot digging in a park in Nola. Anyone have info on that?

I’ve done some poking around online but haven’t really found much, so I’m wondering about that report. The only park-related shooting that I’ve found within the last few weeks was this one (
https://www.nola.com/crime/2019/05/man- … -nopd.html
) but it doesn’t seem to have any connection with the search. Certainly there have been other shootings (it is New Orleans…) but not turning up anything of note.

But that “planter” edge goes all the way across. How does one get to the door?

I haven’t seen anything else either – I wonder if it actually happened.

Choice

But that “planter” edge goes all the way across. How does one get to the door?

The “Top Step” runs 90 degrees from the back of the column to the wall of the building. so it is only directly behind the column.
Again this was how it was explained to me.

I get what you are saying but I believe my eyes. Here’s the whole image. Clearly shows top step going completely across not just behind the columns. They didn’t have the iron gate there yet.
https://i.imgur.com/9WPFMDk.jpg

ok, here are the top steps, notice the vertical lines on step 9,10 11,12,13,14 and 15, but look at 16 – no vertical line
thats because the “step” runs straight back not across….
This demonstrates the danger of trying to do this without actually going and looking.

Good lesson in perspectives. I wish someone local could post an image even-though there’s a fence-gate there now.

fox

egads, dont say “jockey” too loudly around here

just like E F Hutton.

Trainor–
The colors are light blue and a dark blue that is almost purple.
Or, that is what the colors seem to me.

Hi Trainor,
This was in response to a link to a photo of Jackson Square posted by Fox:
http://www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm
The picture of the statue at Chalmette Cemetery just happened to be on the same webpage, so probably it’s not relevant.
S9

I don’t think Seloy was wrong, and I don’t think Abbot is either. But there are definitions of the word abbot, and it does not have to mean someone’s name. An abbot is also the head of a monastery. A priest. Also, remember that there is a C at the beginning of the previous sentence, which would make it Cabbot. However, that said, I do not believe image 7 goes with verse 5; I believe that verse is much more suited to Image 3, the one which would point to Roanoke Island.
John S.
C. Abbot
wrote a book detailing some information about the Roanoke Colony. This could be a reference like the Sarmiento book.

If you mean the verses for the found casques.
I think they did go in perfect order
from the Iconic image in the picture
directly to the casque location.
Again this wordplay is interesting, but before I would even give this minor consideration
I’d like to see it demonstrated in the two (three) solved verses.
I consider – Houston basically solved or at least confirmed.
Take 12 possible solutions- then randomly pick 2 or 3 out of the twelve.
That they were all solved exactly in the same manner indicates to me the probability that the remaining 10 will be solved similarly.
Of course this view actually makes me argue against Seloy as a valid clue or important clue.
So feel free to ignore me and continue about your ideas.
I will be happy to be proved totally wrong.

malted,  i hadn’t thought of following the iconic images, i just kind of remember someone saying they went to one of the parks and the “verse” didn’t go in order……i could be wrong, that’s just how i remember it.
but i have no problem thinking each hunt might be different and i do feel he might use word play to make it more interesting, like rows might be rose, and i could be totally wrong too, lol
but that’s okay, i’m used to being wrong, lol
there’s alot more word play i could have done  with that verse (probably still will). i wanted to put “
whe
re jew
els
”  (
wheels
) abound, ’cause of my streetcar (train) theory……i can’t look at the image anymore without seeing that train at the bottom, and it’s the only place i’ve seen “namesakes” attached to it (the streetcars)….so i’m still going literally and playing around….
i will mess around with the other verses to see if i can mess them up too, lol
i’m glad you’re listening

In thinking about the placement of the letter V in the word PRESERVATION, I wondered if there was a V to be found on either of the Morazan statue’s plaques. Taking a closer look, there is a V in the word PROVINCAS on the circular plaque. The V is orriented at an angle which might align well with the dig spot presented here,

I do not know if this has any bearing on this image, but there is an old hotel, Hotel Monteleone, which is famous for its old grandfather clock in the lobby.  I have seen it before but I do not remember the details.  I will have to visit the hotel this weekend.  It is on Royal street in the French Quarter.  I still think that verse V goes with this image.  I need to investigate the area I was in again.
Trainor

I think the V being pointed out by the 12-hands means “go straight to where the V points”. The V points directly to a spot on the ground a few feet to the left of the plaque.
The yellow line is a spot exactly fifteen measures distant in terms of the stairs just to the left. Someone could verify this with respect to either the tread or rise using a tape measure.

this is exciting!  lafitte, kind of look outside the square a little too, ’cause the hour hand in the image seems to extend to outside the square, ok?
i don’t mean outside the square, but outside the square inside the square. like where the trees are in this pic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperturbe/4781387077/

Slappybuns you really lost me. I have no idea what you mean!

I think they mean out side the sidewalk that runs the perimieter  of the square about 10 feet in from the sidewalk along the streets.

With my schedule, I am looking at a December dig. Good thing NOLA is in the south.
My plan is to get permission to dig prior to making the 13 hour road trip. If nothing else, I will investigate the park and see the city. I do know the area I plan to dig had cleanup. How much is to be determined. I might probe a little when I call the park management for permission.
Toasty

Hi Lafitte, welcome!
Just thinking out loud here… the ragged fingernails have puzzled me too.  The nails are long, which might indicate that (1) it’s a woman’s hand, or (2) that they continued to grow after death (it’s a myth, I know- it just appears that way b/c the surrounding tissues shrink).  What do you think about the above ground tombs in N.O.?  I know that they are somewhat of on attraction there.  Are there any park-like areas near any of the tombs?

bclews

Lets not forget about this.  It’s just too close a match.

Just throwing some stuff at the wall to see what sticks (probably not much)… we’ve wondered whether things like lions and sundials could be common among the different casque sites.  FWIW, City Park in New Orleans has both lions (which we’ve seen) and a sundial.  Here’s a picture of a sundial in City Park:
City Park also has a miniature train, similar to Hermann Park in Houston:
Here’s a picture of a character called “Mr. Bingle” in a pose very similar to the guy on the clock face in image 7.  There are lots of Mr. Bingle guys (used on holiday floats?), I don’t know if this particular one was there back in 198X, and this isn’t a match for the guy in image 7 (only the pose is similar).
And finally, here’s a picture from a WWI memorial in City Park.  It’s not a great match for the mask in image 7, but maybe another part of the monument could be?  Of the pics I’ve been able to find, I don’t see anything too promising.

Just some old pictures from City Park. May or may not be relevant.
What’s the deal with big floral clocks? There was one in St. Louis, too.

lafitte,
i’m glad there’s a hunter in NO!!  was everything changed at Armstrong Park?  could you show us where they moved the statue, and from where?
whiterabbit, r u close to any of the likely sites?  are u a hunter?  once u find  a spot are you gonna go dig?
i

slappybuns

whiterabbit, r u close to any of the likely sites?  are u a hunter?  once u find  a spot are you gonna go dig?

(No, I’m in the UK…so if I ever do find anything, I’ll be pestering Lafitte to go check it out…
)

The Joan of Arc statue was originally between Canal and Poydras st. It’s present location was installed way after the casque was buried. I’ve always thought Armstrong park ro be the place. But now it will be difficult. If I could really have a poem match it would be clear. That is the most frustrating part of this hunt.

Lafitte

But now it will be difficult.

Sheesh, you’re right there…thanks for the info…

I knew this statue was not there when the casque was buried. I had already done some research on this. More about this marker.
By Richard E. Miller, July 14, 2009
2. Bienville Monument, north face
statue sculpted by Angela Gregory, 1955.
The statue was first erected at the Bienville Plaza near the New Orleans Union (railroad) station in April 1955. It was relocated to Bienville Place in November 1996.

slappybuns

lafitte,
i’m glad there’s a hunter in NO!!  was everything changed at Armstrong Park?  could you show us where they moved the statue, and from where?
whiterabbit, r u close to any of the likely sites?  are u a hunter?  once u find  a spot are you gonna go dig?
i

I’ll do my best. Won’t be back in N.O. for a bit. But Armstrong park is really messed up.

lafitte, you don’t think verse #2 with the sarmiento quote “who build palaces to shelter their homes for a night!” is the right verse?  in that book it was talking about the st. charles hotel (i think)

I am going to babble here:
FB noticed that it may be a “2” along the boy’s butt that he is holding in his hand and a “1” from the sleeve.. I think this may be right. So if V2 goes with this and we look through the middle of the 21 on the statue down St. Charles Ave. toward the palace for a night (Lafayette Hotel) you will see a grassy stretch. Between this grassy area and the street is a sidewalk of red brick divided by gray brick. They look to be about 10′ X 10′ each. There are 15 of these running each way from the statue area to the next cross streets as best i can tell from street view on google. I want to research how long it has looked like that tho. Also, the grassy area only stretches 12 squares each way with the end 3 being double brick squares. Could be why the little clock hand is on 3 and the big clock hand in the middle of 12.
I can email the image to someone to post or i will post it to my page tomorrow.

milesstandish

I just found out about this hunt recently and I’m trying to catch up. Don’t know if this has been mentioned before but, regarding the boy on the clock, doesn’t it seem strange that the artist illustrated the pants going to the knee on one leg but ending at the thigh on the other. It would seem like it had to be deliberate. The boy has always looked a little strange with the protruding right buttock. I wonder if either the black space of the body or white negative spaces might be another map shape like those found in other images.

I believe if you turn the boy upside down, the dark area that is his pants is a pretty good outline of the New Orleans area.  Perhaps someone with better graphic skills than I, can do a side-by-side posting, or even an overlay.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=726+St+Peter+St,+New+Orleans,+LA&hl=en≪=29.951365,-90.096817&spn=0.321863,0.676346&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=10.512921,21.643066&oq=726+st.+peter,+new&t=h&hnear=726+St+Peter+St,+New+Orleans,+Louisiana+70116&z=11
The “buttocks” side of his pants is the Mississippi River, and the other side is the land outline that borders Lake Pontchartrain.  Not sure if it is an exact much, but it appears that it could be close.

I think the bubblebutt is basically a torso/arms/legs drawn around this kind of basic hidden image, a box with a circle,

These threads are so long, I do not know if anyone else has discussed the Mardis Gras Fountain, which is located near the streets that are all named for jewels (“At the place where jewels abound”).  I came across some photos which are similar to Image 7.  They appear to be some type of tiles or posters, representing different years of the Mardis Gras.  The 1929 on the clock face made me look for the 1929 poster.  Also take a look at a couple of the other pictures.  The tiles themselves are arranged, so that there are at least 21 of them (in the middle of 21?).
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36678899.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36678965.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36679532.jpg

reading the posts after Giant Squids post about Lafayette Park , Forrest, he posted a picture of the lamp posts at armstrong park.  i count 7 lampposts with 3 lights on top of each.  that would make 21 lights. are there only 7 lamp posts like that?  if there are only 7, is there anything that makes you think of the verse in the middle lamp posts?
here’s the picture again:
http://flickr.com/photos/92702940@N00/7 … otostream/
this one made me think of “only 3 stand watch”
http://flickr.com/photos/emcrawford/2052660263/

Another discovery leads me to reject the idea that the jumbled and stacked tombs along the wall from entrance to corner count precisely to 15 when it’s somewhat iffy.  I’ve always liked it as a guestimate however.  The discovery is that the addresses for this cemetery range from 0 to 1500.  The rows are all over the place…I say that’s evidence heavy drinking was involved.  The line “fifteen rows to the ground” may be saying 15 [hundred], which is essentially 0-100, 101-200, …, 1000-1499, and 1500+ for the roughly 700 interred.

http://www.tekkaus.com/2010/08/my-grand … hirai.html
see the crescent moon and stars
scroll down to the image of henry clay’s song

http://www.klockit.com/products/dept-20 … clock.html
“
ORLEANS
” grandfather clock
looking at the image, on our right side, to the right of the “29” on the wood part, looks like a door hinge or gate hinge, or possibly a flagpole with truck
it’s different from the other side
and i’ve probabably been looking at this too long, but on  our right at the top, very top corner, i see that little mermaid girl in storyland.  her head is part of the clock, right uder the first full block, and her tail is the very first triangular block at very top right.
i told ya i was no good at this!  they are upside down!

The mask, stick, hand, and sleeved arm reaching up from the bottom of the image have settled in my mind in a very particular way.  There are many other details to sort out from the image and verse, but I’m just addressing this one set of visuals.
Mask = Statue in a Park = Louis Armstrong Statue in Louis Armstrong Park.
Stick/Hand = Symbolic of a Street name = Joan of Arc’s statue holds her flag up high like that, she was canonized in 1920 in St. Peter’s Basilica (Sarmiento’s quote likens the Charles Hotel to St. Peter’s) = St. Peter street.
Sleeve = Street Name = the artistic style of Toulouse = Toulouse street.
Arm descends = Casque to be found near the next street following the previous steps: Mask, Stick/Hand, Sleeve = St. Louis Street.

Okay, i’m doing some routine research based on a date and great events in the chess world.  Going with idea there is a chess motif in this image and “stonewall” (verse 7) is a well known chess defense, i recalled Anderssen-Kieseritzky in London in 1851.  Yes, I know it seems totally obscure but I did study this game and it made a comeback in the film Blade Runner.  Lightbulb…ah heck, Preiss didnt borrow this reference from the 1982 film…outside our timeline…but I continued to research to discover the chess game wasnt written in the films first draft of the screenplay either.  The film was an adaptation of Phillip K. Dick’s novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? and after thoroughly researching the 1968 book my friend had in his library I discovered the famous queen’s sacrifice wasnt referenced there either.  …so, this image has a clock, “Preservation” written on its face, and a hand that looks like that of an undead zombie…is this a theme about Immortality?  ‘The Immortal Game’ is what Anderssen-Keiseritzky is called.  In 1954 scifi fantasy writer Poul Anderson wrote ‘The Immortal Game’ and in that short story he refers to the great chess match.
IF it is plausible that Preiss would be into reading fantasy scifi magazines from the 50’s, then we might have a possible window looking into his inspiration for part of this puzzle.
Note: I’m not arguing against the use of Preservation as a reference to NO’s Jazz hall.

Zombie=Immortality seems a bit of a stretch. Zombie=Dead… or UnDead at the outside. (all though you will find the Term Undead wasnt used like it is today back then. until recently Undead = vampire)

No need to go with zombie specifically, thats just word choice.  But undying and immortality is the idea.  New Orleans is big into celebrating the dead right?

well, I definitely get Zombie from the image, Immortality, not so much.
however the whole Image screams New Orleans to me…

k, guys, i hinted for someone else to do this so don’t laugh
sure looks like a
STREETCAR OR MINIATURE TRAIN to me……….
oops, i don’t know how to delete one of ’em
look at the pic horizontally with the bottom left turned left and just look at the line closest to the clock
so…the st. charles line in the verse and st. charles road and st. charles streetcar?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/458 … otostream/
i feel it’s at a waymark sign…..when i tried to outline the shadows on the mask (you have to flip the image upside down), it looked like a pelican, and the humpty dumpty stick could be the post
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image … 7048ca2d04
Long Description:
In New Orleans, in the section of the city known as Carrolton, is a sign set up by the state of Louisiana for the St. Charles street car line. This sign is next to the rails that still support the trolley line that runs either in or between lanes of either St. Charles Avenue, or South Carrolton Avenue. The sign is found on South Carrolton Ave., but within site of the intersect with St. Charles Ave. It is located on the north side, not far from a trolley stop.
or…the miniature train ride in city park..
http://neworleanscitypark.com/carousel_gardens.html

Unknown

Unknown:
You don’t seem to be hearing me, so I’ll say it again: We did not ignore Lafayette Square!

Unknown

Unknown:
And I wouldn’t have said that again, but you decided to repost your entire previous post, without responding to anything I said about it. You leave me two options – repeat my previous statement or just give up on trying to communicate with you.

Au Contraire.
I heard you. The whole WORLD heard you. You’re awfully hard to ignore when you go about thrashing ideas you don’t like. You have no finesse whatsoever. You’re not subtle. You’re not even polite.
Case in point.
You know,
you
have two options too–if you don’t agree, you can either shut up or prove someone wrong. You’ve done neither.

shecrab

Au Contraire.
I heard you. The whole WORLD heard you. You’re awfully hard to ignore when you go about thrashing ideas you don’t like. You have no finesse whatsoever. You’re not subtle. You’re not even polite.

shecrab

You know,
you
have two options too–if you don’t agree, you can either shut up or prove someone wrong. You’ve done neither.

What a subtle, polite, and constructive reply you’ve made! No matter how blunt I’ve been, at least I haven’t made any personal attacks on anyone.
I admit that I have no patience for people who won’t listen, because I consider that extremely rude in itself.
The only way to “prove” that it’s not in Lafayette Square is to find it somewhere else. What I have done is provide logical arguments and evidence to back up what I’ve said, which were promptly ignored, or given a reply of “nuh-uh!” And here we are again – I find not an argument to the logic or content of what I’ve said, but first, that it wasn’t polite enough for you, and second, another “You’re wrong” with no argument or reasoning behind it.
Would you like to get back to the verse/image now?

So…..,  How ’bout them Phillies?…

Forrest

The only way to “prove” that it’s not in Lafayette Square is to find it somewhere else. What I have done is provide logical arguments and evidence to back up what I’ve said, which were promptly ignored, or given a reply of “nuh-uh!”

fox

Please, do tell.  And by that I mean, pick your park and LIST off the NUMEROUS matches…not just that say oooh, an Arch at Armstrong and the Moonwalk at Jackson Sq, and a bridge at City Park because then, like shecrab & myself, you would be banking on a park with ONLY ONE likeness as well.

Forrest

I admit that I have no patience for people who won’t listen, because I consider that extremely rude in itself.

You’re funny falcon
.
You keep saying that but you never show us the evidence.  I have on several occasions {the last time in the following quote} asked for your theories on other parks.
This and all other requests have fallen on deaf ears.  I guess you do not like yourself very well:
OR
you are hastily trying to make more then the 1 connection to the several other parks you have listed.

Forrest

I’m just curious – are you and fox consciously trying to run off the only 2 people in the N.O. area who are actively looking and posting here?

forest_blight

I don’t think the match to clock-boy is close enough, and the relative lack of other good matches in the area adds to its unlikelihood. The pose is not really the same, and what about clock-boy’s hat and the argyle socks one might find on a golfer or cyclist of yore?

Forrest

Your hypothesis is that ALL of the other visual clues in the image are general city references, or references to other parks(
seriously??
), and that it HAS to be Lafayette Park because of the statue. Meanwhile, as far as the verse goes, the digging clues don’t match the park, and none of the surrounding area helps us work backward to a strong match with any of the location clues in the verse, either.

fox

Kind of thought that was what we are doing here.
At the place where jewels abound
Lafayette Square is one of the biggest judging areas of the Mardi Gras Parade.  This is usually held in late February or early March.  When we were there
5
months later, there were still tons of beads adorning the trees all along St Charles Ave.  I think that these are the jewels…
Fifteen rows down to the ground
In the middle of twenty-one
From end to end
I believe this to be the exact spot to dig…ala my brick wall theory.  In my opinion {as well as shecrab’s} this theory is as solid as a brick wall
Only three stand watch
Only 3 statues stand in Lafayette park
As the sound of friends
Fills the afternoon hours
Every Wednesday afternoon at 5pm is Wednesday in the park…filled with music, partying, friends, etc…
Here is a sovereign people
Who build palaces to shelter
Their heads for a night!
Sarmiento’s quote that got us to N.O. and more specifically, St Charles Hotel…which I have explained earlier
Gnomes admire
Fays delight
Not sure yet.  Possibly referring to LaFAYette himself
The namesakes meeting
Near this site.
Could also be referring to Lafayette or even the St Charles Hotel
You see, it isnt like we are stuck on this park simply because of the clock boy…there is plenty in the V that gets us there as well.

Forrest

Meanwhile, there ARE plenty of clues in the image besides the figure. I believe they’ve pretty much all been posted here before.
We have :
PRESERVATION (Preservation Hall is right next to Armstrong Park)
{most likely a city confirmer}
A ball mask with exaggerated features
{could possibly just be saying ‘Mardi Gras’ or also is similar to the marble engravings on a bldg nearby Lafayette Park}
A strange posture for the hand
{possibly not located or solved yet}
A clockface with IV instead of IIII
{you’ve seen clocks w/ IIII? }
A distinctively shaped minute hand
I believe what we see is both the minute and hour hands on 12…and hands like those are very common on grandfather clocks.  Look at the hour hand here
http://69.90.174.250/photos/display_pic … jpg. 
The numbers being pointed to are probably more important then the shape of the hands.
Second hand pointing to III, which has a dark mark next to it.
yep, see above
2 different types of flowers on the clock
you mean the 2 Narcissus? They represent December along with the ’12 oclock’ and the turquoise
2 arrows pointing to P and N
or perhaps the 2 arrows pointing to ‘Preservation’
Moon and stars motif within the arch.
those sure did fit my Moonwalk adjacent to Jackson Sq theory but perhaps that just means Crescent ala Crescent City?
The mask is covering 6,7,8 (sum to 21).
now this is actually interesting and makes sense.  I don’t remember ever reading this.  Do we need to look at the center of the mask?  The nose?  I don’t know but I like this little fact a lot.

Cormac

Second hand pointing to the III … isn’t that the exact direction of the Brick Wall Bench from the center statue if facing the center statue from the McD statue?

Forrest

But by insisting “THIS IS THE PLACE,” you’re effectively ruling out the other parks, some of which I have many more strong matches listed for than Lafayette,

Funny, actually quite the opposite.  It sounds like the only 2 people in the N.O. area are trying to run everyone else away from THIS park.  Your little diatribe says that…oh, there are sooooo many more good candidates folks…this isnt the park.  It isnt the park because it doesnt fit, or because it is across from a federal building, or because of this, or because of that…but look at ALL of the other parks in N.O. folks.
Kind of like the Chicago Water Tower with windmill arms?  Or perhaps the Cleveland wall that the casque was buried behind depicted with the Lion Head Fountain & the columns?  Or even Lady Liberty wearing a white gown instead of her favored patina…perhaps this is her wedding photo…plus I could have sworn she is holding a torch and tablet instead of the flower.
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/255441 … 2122jCXMmu
You’re kidding, right?  Almost the entire V fits this park…not City Park, not Armstrong Park, not…ad nauseum.  So, we haven’t found the 15 and 21 yet, guess we should pack up our shovels and move on to another park.  As much as you hated the post before, I will quote it again here so as not to have to retype it all:
I believe you may be correct.
Please, do tell.  And by that I mean, pick your park and LIST off the NUMEROUS matches…not just that say oooh, an Arch at Armstrong and the Moonwalk at Jackson Sq, and a bridge at City Park because then, like shecrab & myself, you would be banking on a park with ONLY ONE likeness as well.

Actually, my “diatribe” says mainly that I do not consider it constructive to conclude that this is the park, since you have very little evidence.
You can quote your old post all you like, you never addressed my response to it.
Wednesdays in the Park is less than a year old, so no. This park is actually very quiet. No match.
There are review stands in MANY locations during mardi gras, and what difference does it make? Why do you think reviewing stands in a location somehow make it the place “where jewels abound” ? Weak as hell.
You have no match for the digging instructions.
You have no match for Gnomes admire, Fays Delight. If you don’t use this to give some context for the “namesakes meeting” line, that line could refer to pretty much ANY place in New Orleans. I mean, honestly. Everything there is named after someone, and most of them were very famous.
So again. You have ONE -possible- match in the verse, but it’s on the specific end things, thus it is one of the easiest things to match incorrectly, without the context which you cannot provide.
You have one -possible- match in the image.
No sale.

Forrest

There are review stands in MANY locations during mardi gras, and what difference does it make? Why do you think reviewing stands in a location somehow make it the place “where jewels abound” ? Weak as hell.

Forrest

I have found something I have not seen anyone post as a possible match for the first line of the verse.
In an appendix of the book “The Mystick Krewe Of Comus”, the author lists many decades of Mardi Gras Krewe themes and their respective float titles.
In 1906, The Krewe of Rex’s theme was Utopia. Their 17th float was titled “Where Jewels Abound.”
Here is a picture of the page:
I think this is kind of a long shot, but it’s possible that there is a landmark in New Orleans that has a picture of this float displayed, or a painting/mural, that shows the title of the float. I have been unable to locate anything like this in the obvious parks. If anyone has an idea about this, please let me know.

before stating that this is “Weak as hell”, perhaps you should reread the post you JUST made in the V2 thread.
I don’t think this is a longshot at all.  A parade float titled “Where Jewels Abound”…nice.  And where would one find such a float…yes in a parade rolling right down St. Charles Ave past Lafayette Sq and Gallier Hall.  Oh, this park and hall are just 2 of thousands of places that the floats pass…I know.
“After its dedication in 1853, Gallier Hall remained the city hall for just over a century. Many important events during the Civil War, Reconstruction, and the era of Louisiana governor Huey Long took place at Gallier Hall. Today, it is best known as a place of honor during Mardi Gras. Viewing galleries in front of the hall are reserved for Mardi Gras royalty, and parades on the St. Charles route pause in front them. Marching bands typically perform shows here during the parades, and Gallier Hall is where the King of Rex stops to salute his queen.”
“…a place of honor during Mardi Gras”
“…reserved for Mardi Gras royalty”
“…where the King of Rex stops to salute his queen”
Sounds much more important then the thousands of other places along the parade route.

Unknown

Unknown:
The only way to “prove” that it’s not in Lafayette Square is to find it somewhere else. What I have done is provide logical arguments and evidence to back up what I’ve said, which were promptly ignored, or given a reply of “nuh-uh!” And here we are again – I find not an argument to the logic or content of what I’ve said, but first, that it wasn’t polite enough for you, and second, another “You’re wrong” with no argument or reasoning behind it.

Unknown

Unknown:
Would you like to get back to the verse/image now?

I have never said “you’re wrong.” I have said that I don’t
agree
with you and have been catigated roundly by you for it. And there is absolutely NO reason for that. Yes, you’re correct, you have no patience with anyone who disagrees with you–and you argue in a particularly hostile way. And there’s no call for THAT either. We don’t have to agree here–but we don’t have to SNIPE either.
Oh…well, sure, Forrest. Now that
you’ve
given the okay.
SHHEEEESH!!!  This is a prime example of what I mean.

Right, because BP expected you to read “where jewels abound” in the verse, have the name of every float for the last 100 years memorized, somehow associate that float with Lafayette Square out of ALL the parks and ALL the parade routes.
Makes perfect sense!

Forrest

No sale.

Yes, I can do it too
I suppose you knew, upon reading V2 for the very first time and conducting NO research, that “Here is a sovereign people
Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!” referred to the St. Charles Hotel instead of ALL of the other hotels/motels/inns/b&b’s etc in ALL of the other cities in ALL of the other states
Give me a break. I am still awaiting your park choice with:  something remotely similar to clock boy; 3 statues; and along St. Charles Ave.  You keep circling back to the fact that the wall CAN NOT be the 15 & 21, yet I am SURE you have not nailed down the 15 & 21 in any of your parks, let alone nailed those down along with several other confirmers.
I guess it can be summed up by

So, your argument is because at one point we didn’t know what the St. Charles quote in the verse refers to, you don’t need to use any kind of logic to justify your association between a float name and a specific park?  Seriously?

Forrest

So, your argument is because at one point we didn’t know what the St. Charles quote in the verse refers to, you don’t need to use any kind of logic to justify your association between a float name and a specific park?  Seriously?

Forrest

Right, because BP expected you to read “where jewels abound” in the verse, have the name of every float for the last 100 years memorized, somehow associate that float with Lafayette Square out of ALL the parks and ALL the parade routes.
Makes perfect sense!

On the contrary, that was your logic.  You are the one who said
I find your latest find {the float named “Where Jewels Abound”} very exciting.  That information supports my theory even more.
Going into this entire hunt, we didn’t know anything about the St. Charles Hotel being a place that “Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!” any more then we knew about a Mardi Gras float name “Where Jewels Abound”.  Those were GREAT finds due to diligent research.  I truly do not believe that BP thought that anyone would know that information after the first read over.  It is little tidbits like this sprinkled in with clever plays on words that make
The Secret
so damn hard to crack…but we are getting there.

Forrest

Wednesdays in the Park is less than a year old, so no. This park is actually very quiet. No match.

Perhaps I jumped the gun a little on this idea…but instead of saying nanny nanny boo boo and emphasizing my mistake with your “This park is actually very quiet. No match.”  a little bit more research on my part and I found this…
“Lafayette Square has been the site inaugurations, yearly pilgrimages by school bands, and jazz concerts for over 150 years. In 1864, famed bandleader Patrick S. Gilmore presented his legendary concert with a 500 plus member band, a choir of thousands of school children, and a bell ringer.”
This park is actually very quiet?…  Nope!

No, it wasn’t my argument at all. My argument was that knowing the name of a float from 1906 doesn’t give you a link to Lafayette Square. We’re almost “cheating” by finding a reference to it that I
guarantee
you BP didn’t expect anyone to find (I very much doubt he had any idea that book even existed) -IF- it happens to to end up actually being what the verse refers to in the first place. There are certainly other possibilities.
So, in order to follow this lead, we have to find out how we were expected to make the connection. My longshot idea that a painting or photo of the float from 1906 might be displayed somewhere. That would give you a starting point for the next lines.
I don’t see any possible way you can use that to support Lafayette Square (or anywhere) without knowing how you were supposed to make that connection.
Look, if we have a good solution for Lafayette Square, trust me, we’ll go dig there. We just don’t, and I don’t think we ever will. Why? Because I’ve
been there.
You guys are talking about us “giving up” and that’s infuriating. We already spent a lot of time on it and it just doesn’t match. Instead of going in circles, we’re trying to find location matches for each part of the verse and look for clues in more likely parks.

fox

Perhaps I jumped the gun a little on this idea…but instead of saying nanny nanny boo boo and emphasizing my mistake with your “This park is actually very quiet. No match.”  a little bit more research on my part and I found this…
“Lafayette Square has been the site inaugurations, yearly pilgrimages by school bands, and jazz concerts for over 150 years. In 1864, famed bandleader Patrick S. Gilmore presented his legendary concert with a 500 plus member band, a choir of thousands of school children, and a bell ringer.”
This park is actually very quiet?…  Nope!

And I wouldn’t have said that again, but you decided to repost your entire previous post, without responding to anything I said about it. You leave me two options – repeat my previous statement or just give up on trying to communicate with you.
Going on the assumption that these lines are meant to be taken literally, and characterize the normal atmosphere of the park, do you think it makes sense to pay more attention to an annual event or the occasional concert vs. the normal amount of traffic and activity in the park on a daily basis?
Because normally, it IS a quiet park. There is not much room for any kind of sporting activity. It is not near anything else that’s loud. The only thing I’ve heard there is a homeless guy talking to himself and the sounds of people turning book pages.

Check your pic and tell me what you think (perhaps this is my drunker’s purple elephant?
)
In fact, the whale isn’t the only one, each square on this purple checker seems to have something (gnomes included)

catherwood

A friend of mine in N’Orleans scouted around for a statue which might match the “mask on a stick” in our image.  She found this:
http://soulofamerica.com/images/photosl … nument.jpg
It is the Sidney Bechet Monument in Congo Square, a part of Armstrong Park, which has an “arc of lights” at its entrance.

My friend has a house in the French Quarter, but left town at the first forecasts of the category 5, and just before the mayor announced the evacuation.  She’s at her family’s home in Galveston, TX now, watching the news with the rest of us.
For the above location, she says, “That’s the Louis Armstrong Park, just outside the Quarter, and I know they took on a lot of water.”

The antique cyclist on the clock face looks like he
would have been a shop sign, hanging over an
antique store…like a “shingle” out over the sidewalk.
Royal Street is an antique mecca in New Orleans…
It is between Jackson Square and Louis Armstrong park.
This was taken on 710 Royal Street, New Orleans.
There is an annual Antique Bicycle festival held in the
New Orleans area.

That particular type of bicycle is called a Penny-Farthing if that helps any.  I haven’t been able to link it to anything in NO but it might indeed be a sign or something

forest_blight

Call me crazy, but all I can think about when I look at the clock is bicycles. Old ones. The large circle looks like a bicycle wheel with the part of the frame that connects to the hub. The hands of the clock resemble a stylized reflected bicycle, complete with handlebars. The fellow (who is NOT Peter Pan — sorry, no resemblance at all) looks like he is wearing sensible cycling clothes, with pants tucked into his socks like these fine gentlemen…

FB’s pic above cuts off the top part of the S in JS.  Does anyone else see the JS?

Egbert

FB’s pic above cuts off the top part of the S in JS.  Does anyone else see the JS?

Egbert, maybe this JS in yellow -mirrored in red- is what are you looking for…

I do see how one could extract letters from it, egbert, but those letters could also be O, 0, 8, C… in short, a lot of things. If you try hard enough, you can even read the word “voodoo” there. This is one of the things I see:
Now tell me that doesn’t look like a bike! Assuming for the moment that it could be a bicycle, how could that help narrow down a location in New Orleans? Near a bike path perhaps? A bicycle repair store? Any famous bicycle connections in New Orleans?

Re: image 7
« Reply #424 on: Today at 03:46:11 pm »
Now tell me that doesn’t look like a bike! Assuming for the moment that it could be a bicycle, how could that help narrow down a location in New Orleans? Near a bike path perhaps? A bicycle repair store? Any famous bicycle connections in New Orleans?
while lookig around photos, and other stuff looking for a way, to connect that clock, near lL.A. pk
i saw a lot of wrought iron, on homes as rails and as fence, and what your saying look like bike wheels,
ive seen the same circle in the wrought iron. they have a famous hotel there that is called the cornstalk
hotel because of the cornstalk fence, maybe bp is just trying to confirm the area, with the wrought iron look of the hands
then you could be right maybe a bike shop, or something near and the bike, is made of wrought iron
http://www.jankaulins.com/p191.html

I think it may also be something that Palencar put in there to be reflective of his initials. You can very clearly see two J’s–John Jude–and the P also. I know he signed the painting, but this is pretty common with artists. Al Hirschfeld the caricature artist always hid his daughter Nina’s name in his drawings, then put a little number down by his signature, telling you how many times Nina appeared.  From Wiki:
Hirschfeld is known for hiding the name of his daughter, Nina, in most of the drawings he produced since her birth in 1945. The name would appear in a sleeve, in a hairdo, or somewhere in the background. Sometimes “NINA” would show up more than once and Hirschfeld would helpfully add a number next to his signature, to let people know how many times her name would appear. Hirschfeld originally intended the NINA gag to be a one-time gimmick but it soon spiraled out of control. Though the NINAs were a popular feature in his cartoons, with many enjoying the game of searching for them, on more than one occasion Hirschfeld would lament that the gimmick had overshadowed his art. On occasion he did try to discontinue the practice, but such attempts always generated harsh criticism. Nina herself was reportedly somewhat ambivalent about all the attention. In the previously mentioned interview with The Comics Journal Hirschfeld confirmed the urban legend that the US Army had used his cartoons to train bomber pilots with the soldiers trying to spot the NINAs much as they would spot their targets. Hirschfeld told the magazine he found the idea repulsive, saying that he felt his cartoons were being used to help kill people. In his 1966 anthology The World of Hirschfeld he included a drawing of Nina which he titled “Nina’s Revenge.” This drawing contained no NINAs. There were, however, two ALs and two DOLLYs, “The names of her wayward parents.”

Good observation about the possible “JJP.” A final observation: The top of the clock hand looks somewhat like an anchor. Squint and you’ll see it.

http://www.fidnet.com/~debbil/TheSecret.html
I just posted the top 2 pics. This is Popp Fountain in City Park. It looks a lot like the clock face with 3 entrances (possibly being the gray marks on the rim of the clock face). I did a search and didn’t see where this was brought up before.

OK, so I have something for you to chew on:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bmxhnvu46ynp … 0coin.docx

Does this theme reflect Mardi Gras in some way?
If so, does Mardi Gras connect to the Roman God Mars?
How might Mars represent No.1, “one” or “great in number” or “first”?
Does the time of 12 midnight serve to say “first and last” or “beginning to end”?
Does the word ‘parade’ fit the sound of friends in the afternoon hours?  Does parade fit with the word ‘march’?

I just found out about this hunt recently and I’m trying to catch up. Don’t know if this has been mentioned before but, regarding the boy on the clock, doesn’t it seem strange that the artist illustrated the pants going to the knee on one leg but ending at the thigh on the other. It would seem like it had to be deliberate. The boy has always looked a little strange with the protruding right buttock. I wonder if either the black space of the body or white negative spaces might be another map shape like those found in other images.

forest_blight

Remember those 21 raised planters (from end to end) along the riverfront in the French Quarter? Many online photos still show them, but here’s one in which they appear to have all been razed to the ground. If our casque was indeed in the 11th one (in the middle of 21) and above ground, it’s gone now. Or, it could still be there and simply easier to get to! Someone near N.O. ought to go there and dig in planter #11 before this happens:
http://www.reinventingthecrescent.org/
. In fact, this project might be why the planters were taken down.

Remember though, the treasures wouldn’t be
in
one of those planters. In the middle of twenty-one, could mean 1 of 4 spots:
1) in the middle of the 21st planter (on the outside-side);
2) in the middle of the 21 planters, as measured from one end to the other (a spot that is not near a planter);
3) in the middle of the 10th and 11th planter;
4) in the middle of the 11th planter (on the outside-side);

Glossiphoniidae

Remember though, the treasures wouldn’t be in one of those planters. In the middle of twenty-one, could mean 1 of 4 spots:
1) in the middle of the 21st planter (on the outside-side);
2) in the middle of the 21 planters, as measured from one end to the other (a spot that is not near a planter);
3) in the middle of the 10th and 11th planter;
4) in the middle of the 11th planter (on the outside-side);

It *could* be in a planter — remember Cleveland?

Sure. But there is no way he put one on a box that a tree had just been planted in. There would be no way to dig it out within a year because of root growth.

I’m not certain of what hidden shape the floating boy represents, but I agree that there’s something there.
Here’s something I’m trying to evaluate, obviously not a perfect match to anything, but there’s something nagging me about the composition.  Maybe someone can help break it down if there’s anything to be found.  This is the medallian on the base of the Morazan statue.

forest_blight

It *could* be in a planter — remember Cleveland?

I was under the impression that clevleand was not in a planter.
yes it was an enclosed area, but it was a support/foundation for the wall, and wasn’t a planter.

Not sure what you’re getting at, erexere. What do you see?
I’m not sure if this has been pointed out before. We’ve been taking the “90” and “19” on the clock as clues to the longitudes enclosing the casque — JJP has transposed numbers for latitudes/longitudes elsewhere, so this is no stretch. The “29” therefore is one of the bounding latitudes. Because there is no “28” or “30” it is ambiguous whether “29” is the southern or northern border for our search area. It could hardly be the northern border, because the area between 28 and 29 is all Gulf. That leaves 29 and 30 (maybe this is why JJP omitted the 30?). The interesting bit is that this slices off a good-sized chunk of northern New Orleans where we’ve considered looking before — including, for instance, the entire Harlequin Park area and the upper half of City Park.

Remember those 21 raised planters (from end to end) along the riverfront in the French Quarter? Many online photos still show them, but here’s one in which they appear to have all been razed to the ground. If our casque was indeed in the 11th one (in the middle of 21) and above ground, it’s gone now. Or, it could still be there and simply easier to get to! Someone near N.O. ought to go there and dig in planter #11 before this happens:
http://www.reinventingthecrescent.org/
. In fact, this project might be why the planters were taken down.

I hesitate to compare a circle to a circle, and surely a square doesn’t compare to a triangle, but there is a composition of elements that hits me on a deeper level.  Let’s see if I can work out my thoughts.  I suppose it would be a preconcieved notion based on my conceptualization of standing on Basin street’s neutral ground facing the apex of tomb No.21 (12 o’clock position) and then wondering what next piece of information is required to choose a point on the line.  The near 3 o’clock position would best fit the Morazan statue.  I just wonder if there’s a solid visual confirmer to be found.  It occurs to me there’s a fair amount of “three” related elements.  This is entirely speculative at this point, but there are three corners of the square having numbers.  The 29 and 90 are lat/long.  Out of all the suggestions for the 19, I’ve never really felt convinced.  It doesn’t fit into the lat/long coordinate numbers, so it seems like a third wheel.  What if the lat/long are being integrated further?  If this were a right triangle, then we’d have one corner as a 90 degree, and the other two corners would sum to 90.  If we preserve the 19, then we would expect the other angle to be 71 degrees, but if we preserve the 29 we would expect the other angle to be 61 degrees.  I can’t help but wonder if the number 61 is masquerading as a rotated 19.  The idea of a right triangle may serve to locate the casque by saying we need only two points to find the casque.  The other or additional idea might be built into both those points being literal triangles!  The pediment of tomb No. 21 is a triangle.  Morazan’s emblem has a triangle.

“It was after our dig that my wife came up with her theory of V1 and P7..which I am really buying into.  I had considered Jackson Square long ago and when she started describing her theory of V1, I took another look.  It was then that I was stunned by the resemblence of the P7 clock and the layout of Jackson Square.  It is quite striking I must say.”
Well, then you’d have to come up with a better verse for houston. If you do, maybe I can get closer to where it is!!
wilhouse

scottrocks7

I like Jackson Square because from what I saw in your pictures it looks like their could be or at one time could have been 15 rows and 21 of something and of corse the statue of Jackson.

Just so you know , there are 15 steps on the landing across the street- artillary square.

nice pic wilhouse…i have one almost exactly like that on my digital camera just waiting to be downloaded and shared once I get home.
A little about my research around City Park.  My 8 yr old son and I went out there with a shovel and a probe in the early afternoon a couple of days ago…our focus…that darn sundial.  I took lots of pics of it but really couldnt find anything else that is depicted in our picture.  I do like the fact that the sundial is right next to the Casino Building which may be our “21”.  While looking through the glass door adjacent to the sundial, I noticed a lovely staircase with 15 steps (which I took a picture of).  could this be our In the middle of 21, 15 rows down to the ground?  Possibly…but I think I may be trying to force things.  There were several posts (which appeared to have once held a rope or chain around the grassy area holding the sundial) but unfortunately, there were only 19 of them.  I was hoping and praying for 21 of them because the sundial would be in the center of 21.  While probing…or should I say…attempting to probe the ground around the sundial (especially near the 12 and the 3) I noticed that the ground was VERY hard, pretty much un-probable.  I sat on a nearby bench to think of other options when my son called to me and said “Dad, come here and look at what I found.”  As he was circling the sundial, he stepped into a fairly deep sinkhole…and when I stuck the probe in…I found nothing but very soft soil.  Now thoughts start streaming through my head… :  Hmmm, a casque buried 3 1/2 feet deep…along with several feet of Katrina water on top may have collapsed causing a pretty little sink hole.  Without trying to raise suspicion, I sat on the grass and begun easily digging with my bare hands.  I took a break from digging and moved my probe around when “thud”..hollowness!  My son and I stared at each other thinking “no way, did we find it?”  Nope, turned out to be a strange, large, hollow tree trunk from a tree that is nowhere nearby.  I really wanted to break out the shovel but didnt want to upset other park goers.  My son suggested we come back after dark to really go at it with a shovel…and just in time, Mother Nature unleashed one heck of a downpour onto us.
We, along with my wife in tow, went back later on that night and broke out the shovel.  Digging was soooo easy in this spot.  I know we got down to over 4 ft deep without hitting anything.  I probed down another 3 to 4 feet deeper from the bottom of the hole but hit nothing.  With my luck, we dug right past it…
I briefly tried digging or probing at other spots but the ground was very hard.
I really dont know about this site.  This N.O. pic just doesnt have all of the confirmers that the Chicago & Cleveland pics held.  The “bridge” which looks alot like the top of the clock was in sight nearby the sundial but there really was nothing else there.  I took pictures of the sundial, other statues, bridges and scenery of other parts of the park which I will try to get up after we get home.
It was after our dig that my wife came up with her theory of V1 and P7..which I am really buying into.  I had considered Jackson Square long ago and when she started describing her theory of V1, I took another look.  It was then that I was stunned by the resemblence of the P7 clock and the layout of Jackson Square.  It is quite striking I must say.
————————————————————————————————————
I noticed that the P’s where both the casques which were found contained:  City confirmer (prominent bldg), park confirmer (Bowman statue or Greek theme), and actual items/things found in the park.  Now, when looking at our N.O. pic I came up with this idea.
*City confirmer – lat/long & Mardi Gras mask (possibly Preservation “hall”)
*Location w/in city – Preservation = French Quarters
*Park Confirmer – Layout of clock looks just like Jackson Square
*actual items – hmmm, the clock on St Louis Cathedral looks similar to our clock face…?…
Problem is…I really don’t think burying or digging up something w/in the park is feasable.  This leads me to believe it may be somewhere nearby.  I have taken many many pics of all angles of the Square itself as well as other nearby grassy areas nearby which I hope to get online for all to see soon.
Almost, and I repeat almost everything in the picture can be explained in or around Jackson Sq.  :  The clock face, the moon (moonwalk), the moon/stars (city manhole covers have moon and stars), our Peter Pan (Sq is on corner of St Peters & Peter), horse head (many of the horse head poles around…as well as around most of the French Quarters)…but alas, no mask.  I am beginning to believe that this is simply a Mardi Gras mask and nothing more.
My wife likes an area w/in the park “one giant step” away from the “giant pole” (flagpole) which is right next to a large bush…but other than that, pretty much in the open.  I am beginning to like an area between Jackson Square and the Mississippi river.  After exiting the square you cross the main street, walk up a large set of stairs where a cannon sits.  From there you can look down (giant step?) to a small grassy area behind a very large wall…well hidden from passerbys…especially at night time.  Unfortunately, I will not be able to explore this area more fully since we will be heading out of the Big Easy tomorrow morning.  I really think this area should have some more research done on it.  I am not saying scrap the whole City Park theory because that park just looks like a place to bury a casque…but Jackson Square should be looked at.
Sorry about rambling and the possibility of missing anything…things have been a bit hectic these past few days here and this stop was not even planned…it just happened due to a family emergency.  If I can explain anything else, just ask…

I like the idea of Jackson Square as well. I still think the 15 rows etc verse is correct. The part about heads for the night is no coinsidence.
I like Jackson Square because from what I saw in your pictures it looks like their could be or at one time could have been 15 rows and 21 of something and of corse the statue of Jackson.
I think we can say Jackson Square, City Park or Armstrong Park has the casque.

Kang

Sounds like some of the recent posters are NOLA locals. Question for you – or anyone else.
Am trying to find out the routes of the Krewe of Hermes parades.
Both their French Quarter walking parade and float parade. This appears to be the (current) route of the float parade.
https://www.mardigrasneworleans.com/par … -of-hermes
All I’ve been about to find about the walking parade is:
http://www.noladefender.com/category/ta … ing-parade
“Once they depart brunch, krewe members will meet the St. Aug Marching Band and others at St. Louis and Royal Sts., then proceed down to Bourbon handing out throws and well-wishes for Mardi Gras along the way. Once at Bourbon, the krewe members disappear into the crowds”
However, it’s less than clear about the route.
Q: Does anyone have any additional info about these routes – and if they were the same back in the 80’s?
Thanks in advance!

Not a local, but we’ve got a few books in our humanities library on the history of New Orleans’s Mardi Gras, including one (if memory serves me correctly) focusing on some of the larger krewes themselves. I’m glad to skim through tables of contents/indices to see if there is any info on Hermes, though it will likely be later in the workweek before I’m back at the library.

jmyoung15

Not a whole lot to go on other than a few minor connections (arched windows, diamonds/jewels, postmaster/postmonster), but it is also worth noting that the founders of the Comus krewe originally met at Pope’s Drug Store–at the corner of Prytania and Jackson, no less!–to start their Mardi Gras organizational work. They then moved their meetings to a place called the Gem Saloon, which I thought was another neat name given the “jewels abound” line.

I have been considering the Mardi Gras Route, and it’s end point where the Kings of the two krewes would meet to end Mardi Gras. Never considered the organisational meeting point. Good find. I may need to revisit my theory with that as a possible point along the path.
New knowledge is good knowledge!
X

Sounds like some of the recent posters are NOLA locals. Question for you – or anyone else.
Am trying to find out the routes of the Krewe of Hermes parades.
Both their French Quarter walking parade and float parade. This appears to be the (current) route of the float parade.
https://www.mardigrasneworleans.com/par … -of-hermes
All I’ve been about to find about the walking parade is:
http://www.noladefender.com/category/ta … ing-parade
“Once they depart brunch, krewe members will meet the St. Aug Marching Band and others at St. Louis and Royal Sts., then proceed down to Bourbon handing out throws and well-wishes for Mardi Gras along the way. Once at Bourbon, the krewe members disappear into the crowds”
However, it’s less than clear about the route.
Q: Does anyone have any additional info about these routes – and if they were the same back in the 80’s?
Thanks in advance!

Kang

Sounds like some of the recent posters are NOLA locals. Question for you – or anyone else.
Am trying to find out the routes of the Krewe of Hermes parades.
Both their French Quarter walking parade and float parade. This appears to be the (current) route of the float parade.
https://www.mardigrasneworleans.com/par … -of-hermes
All I’ve been about to find about the walking parade is:
http://www.noladefender.com/category/ta … ing-parade
“Once they depart brunch, krewe members will meet the St. Aug Marching Band and others at St. Louis and Royal Sts., then proceed down to Bourbon handing out throws and well-wishes for Mardi Gras along the way. Once at Bourbon, the krewe members disappear into the crowds”
However, it’s less than clear about the route.
Q: Does anyone have any additional info about these routes – and if they were the same back in the 80’s?
Thanks in advance!

Returning to an earlier question…
Found a little bit on parade routes in this older book while poking around online this afternoon. Might be worth a look.
https://books.google.com/books?id=wZmrX … &q&f=false
Also, looking at recently created maps of the Hermes parade route, there is some slight variance in what happens at the end of the route (basically, when they get to Canal). Otherwise, though, the maps generally seem to match.