thanks!  I personally think the elf really was the thing that did it for me. The cap on the elf fountain is exactly the same as the cap on the djinn.
wilhouse

Nice Fox.  I actually did have one thought of where it could be that I did not look.  There is a space between the original fence and the “new” fence (circa 1980’s) that has remained undisturbed all these years. I know that if Preiss snuck in that back gate and buried it right by the fence he’d never been seen. The back gate was open till very late at night and sometimes wasn’t shut at all.
You could still see the elf fountain from there and it’s in the area where all the other clues fit.  There’s only one small area where you can see the fountain so there’s not a lot of digging needed.
I asked the zoo director if that area was owned by the new park exhibit or by the zoo and he thought the zoo still owned it, which means he could me permission to dig there…
stay tuned.
wilhouse

wilhouse

It seems to me he was making sure you knew you were in Hermann Park.  Remember that there was no internet at the time and it would be impossible to find that quote unless you were familiar with Mellvile, and honestly, Pierre is not one of his more popular books.  A cosmic joke by Preiss

I’m not sure what you mean…are you saying that the quote is just a clue for Herman/Hermann…? To connect the quote with Herman, you’d have to know about the book, and you could then find out what the quote was about.
Given the obscurity of these quotes, I’m inclined to think that there’s a clue in the actual quoted text, but that a knowledge of its source may also provide some kind of lead.

Well get out there and dig it up Wilhouse!!!!
I gathered together a dig team for you……

I just mean that discoving where the quote came from is a positive ID for Hermann park.  How you would come across it I have no idea.
wilhouse

Herman Park is in South Central Houston.
Here is the Google map of the district outlined in pink. or you can get a dotted outline with satellite view.
http://goo.gl/maps/jVkUt
The bottom of this pillar is the Greater Third Ward.
BTW, you can explore the zoo in Streetview and even go inside some of the buildings.

Good luck, have fun, and take plenty of photos!
I haven’t spent a lot of time on the Houston casque, but I hope your efforts are fruitful. The community needs a win after all the years put into this search.

Wilhouse won’t be able to make it saturday but i have recruited some of my family and students for saturdays trip to hermann park.

Diversionary question while eagerly awaiting the report from Mr. Wilhouse’s drastic measures…..
What’s the Houston “landmark”?
Here’s what I mean.  A common theme through several of our well-agreed-upon Images is the clear presence of at least one landmark that positively confirms that you are in the right city.  Chicago has the Bowman (and Water Tower).  Cleveland has Terminal Tower and the Greek Wall.  Charleston has Ft. Sumter and the map of the city.  Milwaukee has City Hall and the rebus.
It appears that when Palencar constructed the images, he deliberately chose to include these landmarks as confirmers of the lat/long clues.  He would have picked things that were very nearly permanent – things that the cities would not eliminate (although we tried with Ft. Sumter once).  I’m not certain that this pattern is universal through
all
of the Images, but it seems to be a strong pattern.
So, what in Image 8 physically exists in Houston today?  A column, column detail, or the group of columns as a whole seem like good candidates, as do the paving stones to a lesser extent.

Pine,
the columns, if I have found the right ones, are made from wood, and are definately not permanent. I am not sure yet about the paving stones.
I would have to say that nothing in the image leads you directly to Houston, except the very clear lat/long numbers.
wilhouse

WhiteRabbit

Here’s a curious thing – a statue called “Portable Trojan Bear”.
http://www.houstontx.gov/municipalart/trojanbear.html
In 1982 it was “at the corner of Montrose and Bissonnet” which puts it close to the Glassell.
(I’ve just realised that the Glassell is part of Houston’s Museum of Fine Arts which is bound to have had fortresses, eg maybe
this one
. It seems more likely to me now.)

WR, I’m one step closer to being inclined to think you’ve found the right mark.  The head of the bear with it’s pronounced nose being represented by the tilted stone.  I like it most because of the old location you’ve cited and that from that street corner view you can clearly see the St. Paul Presbyterian Church tower.
I’ve wondered if he likened the tower to a 1981 board game called Dark Tower.

I remember that. It’s a good further indicator that the Glassell Museum is the “cold as Glass”
wilhouse

Do you remember Orson Welles doing the TV ad commercial?

if  you’re talking about the dark tower board game, no. But you can buy one unopened on ebay for $600
wilhouse

mobhit

I threw it out there hoping………..I took your post wrong…….sorry!!

no need to apologize! you were doing what any of us do here, try to solve the puzzle.
as long as you don’t claim that you’ve found a casque when you haven’t, say anything you want!
I just don’t want people to spend their valuable time looking for something that’s probably not there, when there is still so much to do!
wilhouse

I feel like we are so close to the Houston casque,
Willhouse, couldn’t you go to the park and just follow the verse, and try and look for 4 things that look exactly alike? (small split three winged and slight)
That’s what I did to figure out the Milwaukee verse, just follow it, and if paces are involved remember THEY VARY!!!!!

Reg-
This is an instance where things have changed over time and
some referecnes have moved or are no longer there.
I am sure that Wilhouse can take any emotion that one of us on the
board feels and replicate it ten-fold.

reg, I know it’s hard to believe, but I have spent hundreds of hours in herman park and the zoo.  honestly, all I can say is look at the photos i’ve posted and see for yourself.
you can’t follow what’s not there…
wilhouse

Dave, sounds like you’re having an awesome day!

Hey guys,
Im out at Hermann Park today…exploring a spot or two. Someone recently posted a theory on the pbworks wiki page about the perspective line from the train across to mcgovrrn lake fountain to an area southwest of the obolisk. Then another perspective line running from the atropos statue to the pioneer monument and pass it to the southwest of the monument. Where these two lines intersect.
Lat 29.717972
Long 95.392694
On a side note i ran into two person group with a metal detector just southeast of the pioneer monument. I asked them if them were searching for buried treasure. They mentioned a book about a man who put something in the ground near hear. I laughed and showed them the book (the secret) i was carrying and my notebook. Lol…They were just using a small hand shovel and probing possible spot.
The weather is perfect…Come on out and get you dig on in hermann park folks!
Ive been taking lots of photos and video to help explore the post on the pbworks wiki perspective line theory at hermann park. When i get time later this weekend..i will post some of them.

Unknown

Unknown:
ran into two person group with a metal detector

Pretty sure they can’t find the casque with that XD! Man, i need to get some time open to go there. But it’s a 30 minute drive so it will take some time.

Wilhouse did you use a GPR to look through the concrete? Or was that just a proposal?

erexere

Can you share the photograph sources? That would help the information pool as any other specific details or reports of the changes to the landscape or position of the sculpture or MOT.
It’s a nice location to fit the idea I’ve presented, but I’ve not seen any indication that anyone is that interested in exploring it further. Lots of other options out there, trees, fountains, ex-zoo poles, etc.

There are a number of them on FaceBook, but you have to be a group member.

Would be great if you can share any sort of proper citation.

A-dubs, I applaud you for sharing you idea. While I don’t agree with the P8V5 pairing, I find your observation VERY interesting. I think it’s very cool to look the puzzles in new ways. That’s how we’re going to solve these some day.

If we go back to the Image path idea.
the large tower with the ball, matches the Sam Houston statue/circle – reflecting pool
stand on the street in front of the Image (herman park drive) – Go left , thats the way the genii is faciing
– of course – herman park drive loops right there and you are immediately going the other direction.
Go until you find the next landmark Camel -Rhino
Sounds to me like the signs you find in zoo parking lots  so you remember where your car is.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Dan11Nil7Vs/T … -11-15.jpg
is an example from the San Diego Zoo.
Which means we are now at the treasure ground where the verse starts with the 982 train.
Seems to me to work perfectly and logically takes us to the CZ.

cw0909

the star in the img….
there is a planetarium, in the science building,was it there in 81

Yes it was. At the Museum of Natural Science, just inside the entrance to Hermann Park.  And Preiss loved astronomy–judging by the huge number of astronomy books he wrote and published. I stated as much in another thread somewhere.
Not only that, but the dome of that planetarium is attached to the building by a long, slender “hallway” type of structure, so that seen from above, it would look like a short version of the sphere column. –BUT– even though all that is correct, you cannot see or catch the train at the Museum–I don’t think we should ignore that. And there is no place that I could see that fit with the rest of the image elements near that museum. That is one of the things that is heavily photographed –there are quite a few images online.
It is also undergoing some extensive renovation, that will add a new floor and change the building shape a bit. I went back through the years of exhibits the museum has had, and checked to see if there was anything that even stood out a little. Aside from a current Tut exhibit, there wasn’t anything that stood out.

Unknown

Unknown:
Yep. At this point you’re perilously close to agreeing with the overhead analysis I’ve been posting since last April. Now you only need to acknowledge the curve of the Garden Center and you’ve cracked it.

To WR:
I don’t like the curve  or Garden Center for many reasons. Too many places you could NOT bury the casque is the main one. And the fact that the GC is too far to the East of all that is essential in the image for my solution. I didn’t really agree with your overheads either, until I saw the 1979 map–which has the same shape on it–I’ve said this over and over: I cannot agree with any solution that uses satellite images to “prove” a correlation with any of the shapes in the images–because BP would not have used those. He might indeed have used MAPS, or diagrams from park/location literature–but just because you can find a shape with a satellite picture that resembles or even is a dead ringer for one of the pieces of the image, it does NOT make a confirmation. This is just my opinion, mind you. You can, of course, continue to sift through as many satellite pics as you wish to; we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
I don’t believe the curved line is the parking lot. Period. Why, out of all the parking lot lines that curve, out of all the lines in all the lots, would he put in a single one–when it’s not some place you can dig? That makes no logical sense at all to me.
Nor do I believe that he would have used the 982 TRAIN to refer to a single date on a commemorative plaque. Again, that reference may be a lovely bit of synchronicity, but it doesn’t trip my trigger. Why not just use 1964? He referred to the train with the correct number–he counts correctly in all the other verses–why suddenly halve the number he really wants you to find?
I don’t think even our genius Preiss could have gone into the Garden Center grounds and gotten away with digging around without some serious interference. The flowers and trees are all labeled, laid out in easy-to-see areas or formal beds, there is a ton of statuary there because it’s also a sculpture garden. Too open, too exposed, too public and too “official.”

One of my first visits to the area I was convinced that the casque was around the train. I looked all over the park for 2 things:  columns with horizontal dividers and some elf/djinn/genie that was similar to the one shown.  The chicago and cleveland casque showed us that Preiss used actual physical elements from the area in the drawings.  There is nothing outside of the CZ that has those elements.
The 982 train was cordoned off with a fence area and the ground was filled with rocks. There was no place to dig around the train itself. If the casque was in the park area, then it’s gone. As the small train was all dug up and replaced, the lake was made bigger and the reflecting pond made bigger. That whole area is different.  I did find 4 trees at the time in a “circle” and poked around there with my 4 foot long poker but I didn’t find anything.
The aqua tunnel has an unusual design. As you go down the steps, the water is over you and on the sides. However as you travel south, the water Veers right and left. The tunnel splits into a Y shape and the water veers those directions.  Water in a fountain, or a spout does not veer. Preiss was a master of words and he used specific words for a reason. I don’t believe he would not have referred to water veering in a fountain.  That’s my opinion and why I don’t believe the Meecham fountain or the garden center fountain are the veering water.  Although I will tell you that I spent many hours at both spots looking around for some clue from the verse or image.
By the way, there were many lights in the CZ with those globe type fixtures. They were only in the CZ and by the food court in the zoo.
wilhouse

found in the trees.

I cant make that last image out.  Looks like tortellini.

tortellini!!
Blow up the picture. It says ZOO
wilhouse

What is this statue looking thing in this tiny square?  It is now a sea lion attraction just north of a reflection pool.  Before it was renovated it looked like it had some small white statue with a square base.  I keep thinking it’s Dowling, but I haven’t found anything saying it was moved a second time during it’s near Hermann Park installation where it sits south of the zoo on a median.

Unknown

Unknown:
Blow up the picture. It says ZOO

shecrab

I’ve said this over and over: I cannot agree with any solution that uses satellite images to “prove” a correlation with any of the shapes in the images–because BP would not have used those. He might indeed have used MAPS, or diagrams from park/location literature–but just because you can find a shape with a satellite picture that resembles or even is a dead ringer for one of the pieces of the image, it does NOT make a confirmation. This is just my opinion, mind you. You can, of course, continue to sift through as many satellite pics as you wish to; we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point.

fox

…this pic intrigues me…simply how the whole overhead layout looks like the pole with the orb on top. Then to the right of that is the curved section (not necessarily the golf course) that looks like the sand dune

shecrab

I don’t believe the curved line is the parking lot. Period…That makes no logical sense at all to me.

Why worry about obscure references to the zoo when we have obvious ones? We know the puzzle references the zoo. There is absolutely no doubt about it, like there’s absolutely no doubt that Image 10 shows Milwaukee City Hall. That’s not where the Milwaukee casque is however. Likewise most of us no longer think the SF casque is in GGP, which is a closer analogy.
Do we really? Haven’t you noticed that maps and aerial photos have a certain correspondence?  ::)
I tend to use Google views because of their accessibility. Obviously the same features would have appeared on maps. Here they are on the one wilhouse provided.
Fox on the satellite version –
To suggest two of these but deny any possibility of the third is selective blindness, especially when the curve of the Garden Center parking lot runs alongside large piles of sand at the golf course.

Let’s talk about the columns. Here’s what I see.
The front column appears to represent the shape of the area around the Sam Houston statue and the reflection pool. This seems too simple but the thing that caught my attention was the bell shape at the bottom. Knowing that the columns are from the old stage at the Miller Outdoor theatre, I looked in some history and found that the theatre produced a free musical called “Bells are Ringing” and this free musical has been going on for years.
The Rhino column took me awhile to figure out, “why a rhino?” As I looked thru Miller Outdoor Theatre photos I came across one from the side at ground level and noticed how it looked like a Rhinoceros horn. Again, as you know, the Rhino head is on top of a column from the old theatre.
The Camel column was the hardest to figure out. I couldn’t understand why that column didn’t have a shadow. (Just like the palm tree….ravelin, in Image 6). Once I heard about Miller hill being built from dirt from the park to form the amphitheater I realized why. The camel hump is Miller Hill so there would be no shadow.
I also believe the columns in the background represent the columns in the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade.

MrBackstop

Let’s talk about the columns. Here’s what I see.
The front column appears to represent the shape of the area around the Sam Houston statue and the reflection pool. This seems too simple but the thing that caught my attention was the bell shape at the bottom. Knowing that the columns are from the old stage at the Miller Outdoor theatre, I looked in some history and found that the theatre produced a free musical called “Bells are Ringing” and this free musical has been going on for years.
The Rhino column took me awhile to figure out, “why a rhino?” As I looked thru Miller Outdoor Theatre photos I came across one from the side at ground level and noticed how it looked like a Rhinoceros horn. Again, as you know, the Rhino head is on top of a column from the old theatre.
The Camel column was the hardest to figure out. I couldn’t understand why that column didn’t have a shadow. (Just like the palm tree….ravelin, in Image 6). Once I heard about Miller hill being built from dirt from the park to form the amphitheater I realized why. The camel hump is Miller Hill so there would be no shadow.
I also believe the columns in the background represent the columns in the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade.

This all makes a lot of sense.

erexere

A new line of thought, what if the Lion / Wood lines are suggestive of the theme “King of he Jungle”?  I argued that image 6 was “King o the Mountain”.  Lets see if this is plausible.  Was Moby Dick “King of the Ocean”?  Was the Shenandoah “King of the Sky”?

Triton or Poseidon, or Neptune is the King of the Ocean,
or at the least a King Crab however at the time of the Secret’s publishing, The undisputed King of the Sea would have been a Great white Shark based on Jaws.
The Shenandoah wouldn’t ever have been the King of the Sky, it was never the biggest, fastest, it was based on the german airship L-49 which was basically your run of the mill WWI airship. Even before it flew there were plans for bigger and faster airships in the United States.
Plausible – minus

bigmattyh

This clue is a quote by Herman Melville. Other clues (the 982) point to Hermann Park in Houston. “Herman” and “Hermann” are very nearly the same word. Therefore, it’s likely this clue is a confirmer for Hermann Park.

Unknown

Unknown:
But though thus mantled, and tangled with garlands, this shrine was of marble – the perfect marble form…unclouded, snow-white, and serene…
What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event…Are we so entirely insecure, that that casket, wherein we have placed our holiest and most final joy, and which we have secured by a lock of infinite deftness; can that casket be picked and desecrated at the merest stranger’s touch, when we think that we alone hold the only and chosen key?
Pierre! thou art foolish; rebuild – no, not that, for thy shrine still stands; it stands, Pierre, firmly stands.

Probably. Why that quote though?
Hmm, a white marble shrine. Seem to remember something about one of those.  ???
Oh yeah, I remember now…
It’s either that, or a blimp. One or the other, I’d say.

bigmattyh

This is great.  You have fantasy and reality exactly inverted.  The “real” to you, is doing multiple layers of word association (in which anything can be justified), and the “fantasy” is literal.  Never mind that the only actual confirmed casques that have been found were done so using literal confirmers.
But I’m tired of repeating myself, finally.  I just hate to see you waste so much time on a seriously flawed train of thought.

Wrong and wrong.  Again, you are only hinging your argument on the two solutions found and that assumption that all other solutions must be set to the same observable parameters.  Then you justify why you havent solved it because the “real” world has changed too much in 30 years….boo hoo.  Get real and consider that there could be layers.  Do you have no appreciation for style?  Have you ever heard of a story arc?  Were you any good on the Millers Analogy portion of the SAT?
I have demonstrated multiple layers of word association in my loosest efforts in the past, but not herein this particular debate.  This is just about validating a set of visual and literal observations that require crossing a boundary.  At some point you have to let your guard down and decide what BP has described with these poetic words.

erexere

My main frame of references are A) a giant sperm whale such as moby Dick has characteristics of a Blimp-like scale

Your reasoning is:
This clue is a quote by Herman Melville.
Herman Melville wrote Moby Dick.
Moby Dick was a big giant whale.
Blimps are also big and giant.
Therefore, this clue indicates a blimp.
This is the same kind of reasoning:
God is love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Therefore, Ray Charles is God.
And yet, you completely ignore the much more direct reasoning:
This clue is a quote by Herman Melville.
Other clues (the 982) point to Hermann Park in Houston.
“Herman” and “Hermann” are very nearly the same word.
Therefore, it’s likely this clue is a confirmer for Hermann Park.

Lets get back on the rails here.  WR, i extended my blimp theory as a result of your fountain and my preoccupation with winged, gently falling things.  My BSG theory is still simmering on a back burner.  The CZ is a lost cause, but does everything have to point there or do other options exist?
The Garden Center does look bleak to me even though WR has made many supportive claims.
The Fannin St. Split looks good to me even though many contrary pointers point us to the center and South area of the Park.
The Blimp theory has yet to be debunked properly.  In 1981, Goodyear was having a good year and it was a blimp class fleet if you want to be technical about it.  No need to argue that the historic Shenandoah was technically an airship and not a blimp…since they both fit as comparison to the great whale.  No need to argue that the crash site was in Ohio so it doesnt apply when in fact the Shenandoah’s flight through Texas was a big deal and it was piloted by a native son of Texas.  That is a simple enough connection, not fanasty or fiction to justify an outlandish claim.  Lillian Schnitzer’s father survived that crash?  Worth considering.  Where does that lead us?  All I can say is the cruciform wing configuration on a blimp is exactly the same as depicted in the image as a star.
A new line of thought, what if the Lion / Wood lines are suggestive of the theme “King of he Jungle”?  I argued that image 6 was “King o the Mountain”.  Lets see if this is plausible.  Was Moby Dick “King of the Ocean”?  Was the Shenandoah “King of the Sky”?
Does anyone see the trend here?  Isnt everything bigger in Texas?  The big whale seems like a perfect choice for BP given the Herman(n) connection.  What other big associations might follow?  I say the Blimp has to be on the list.

Well, you can reason just about anything that way Bigmtty.  You’re argument is sound, I’ll give you that, but it’s misrepresenting my basic goal.
Is it plausible that BP employed some associative technique in this image and verse or did he use absolutely nothing but plain directions and exact imagery?  Keep it real buddy and stop playing the fantasy card.  By that I mean, there’s definitely no Genies in Hermann Park…  If you think nobody is making associations to this imagery than you’re sorely mistaken.

Some of you need to start working a little harder to relax and stop being griefers.
Decide whether there is any stratification in ideas connected to real persons, places, or things.  If yes, then you’ve got work ahead of you.  If no, then you’ve got work ahead of you.  Think about it.  You’re either looking to find a pattern where a pattern exists or you’re looking for something random where no pattern exists.  Plain and simple.
I’m taking an approach that feels right for me and for all I know it’s completely wrong.  I look for patterns.  I make associations.  I’m not trying to elevate Ray Charles to God or even Titan status.  I’m trying to work from a broad scope and escape any predisposed pitfalls that might have been the wall so many have already banged their heads upon.  Be careful that you’re not just defending that wall in order to make known your opinion against a proposal.  I can tell you don’t like my ideas quickly enough.  Well, I don’t mind your dislike for my ideas, but I do mind when you make a blunt and dismissive show of it while doing little to contrast my view with a more suitable one.
I’m not trying to argue for more of the same lameness here.  I want to identify a dig spot and a reason for it.  My proposals are based on being playful and yet exact.  I believe that was BP’s approach.  If that wasn’t his approach, then I’ve been misinformed by this forum.

Unknown

Unknown:
Is it plausible that BP employed some associative technique in this image and verse or did he use absolutely nothing but plain directions and exact imagery?  Keep it real buddy and stop playing the fantasy card.

This is great.  You have fantasy and reality exactly inverted.  The “real” to you, is doing multiple layers of word association (in which anything can be justified), and the “fantasy” is literal.  Never mind that the only actual confirmed casques that have been found were done so using literal confirmers.
But I’m tired of repeating myself, finally.  I just hate to see you waste so much time on a seriously flawed train of thought.

Found these old pics.

thanks wilhouse

Notice the face mask on the Genie.  It’s gap looks much like a steam train whistle air hole.

erexere

I want to know what that thing sticking up out of the ground is.  It’s been removed whatever it was.  Could it have been a water spout?

No that’s a electrical junction box
it would have contained wires, ,power or telephone. most likely power
probably sprinkler controls, and when they changed or upgraded the system they removed it.
cant imagine phone switches out in the middle of a traffic circle. and power wouldnt likely be removed unless lots of the lighting changed.
There is a trolley rail right next to it so it could have been the junction of a rail sensor and was removed when the sensors were upgraded to wireless.

I may get the wrath from other longtimers with this post but here goes.  I still do not believe that the location of the jewel in the Image has anything to do with the location of the casque burial site.

fox

I may get the wrath from other longtimers with this post but here goes.  I still do not believe that the location of the jewel in the Image has anything to do with the location of the casque burial site.   D:)

You get my support on that.  It didn’t matter in ChiCleve.

longtimer here.  Fox and I have not always agreed in the past, but on this matter we do see eye to eye.  The paintings are not a roadmap.  The jewel is placed artistically in the painting, as are the rest of the elements.  They get you to a theme and a city, not a specific location.  I guess that makes me a “verser”.

Thought I’d give it a try.  I feel like jewel placement isn’t really a locator either.  It’s more of a distraction.
Here’s something I’ve been working on that focuses more on the stone sticking out of the ground as representing the casque location next to the tree.
I noticed there’s a curved trunk tree in the middle of four equally spaced trees with standard upright trunks.  Ignore the red circle.  I’m more inclined to think the above image where you can stand next to another curved trunk tree and look at the Mecom fountain as its central spout lines up with the spot in the middle of the “four alike” (blue line).  The yellow line points at the Sam Houston statue.
Something cool about this location is the Old President’s house at Rice University sits across the street.  It’s an example of Mediterranean Revival architecture.  Fits very well with the theme-scape of this image.

I’m just going to say this right now. Who loves near Houston. Tell me if this has been already asked so I don’t bother anyone else. Just in case I know who to communicate with.

First of all, thanks to Mark Parry for hooking me up with an account. Its been a pain in the butt I know, so thanks for sticking it out.
Secondly, howdy everyone! Guess I’ll introduce myself. I’m a local Houstonian; have lived here since the early 00’s/late 90’s and went to the park (and zoo) many, many times as a child in that timeframe. I know its not the most CRUCIAL time period for this particular solve but I think I can be a useful resource to the community. Currently I live about 10 minutes from Hermann Park, and have no problem zipping over to check anyones solve or to gather information. I’m fairly new to ‘The Secret’ treasure, having found it after doing research on Forrest Fenn’s treasure, but being so close to home got me hooked almost immediately. Since I was locked out of these boards for a while, I have been looking at information found on this website: thesecret.pbworks.com . The moderator there, Oregonian, has put together a nice, easily readable site that gets one relatively caught up to speed fairly quickly. As you can see on the last post in the Image 8, Verse 1 solve page, I went to look around Hermann Park a few days ago, you can see an album of the photos here:
https://imgur.com/a/mTLtxuY
.
Anyway, to be honest with you all, after listening to Wilhouse speak on the “Shhh! The Secret Podcast” about his experience with the Houston Zoo…I have to say he has me quite convinced it was there. So many clues seem to line up, and BP seemed to believe it there as well, although he never outright said “Yes, its there”. But that won’t stop me from looking!
So if you’ve got a solve, or you’d like some pictures/a native Houstonians perspective, I’d love to be of service!

nashw

First of all, thanks to Mark Parry for hooking me up with an account. Its been a pain in the butt I know, so thanks for sticking it out.
Secondly, howdy everyone! Guess I’ll introduce myself. I’m a local Houstonian; have lived here since the early 00’s/late 90’s and went to the park (and zoo) many, many times as a child in that timeframe. I know its not the most CRUCIAL time period for this particular solve but I think I can be a useful resource to the community. Currently I live about 10 minutes from Hermann Park, and have no problem zipping over to check anyones solve or to gather information. I’m fairly new to ‘The Secret’ treasure, having found it after doing research on Forrest Fenn’s treasure, but being so close to home got me hooked almost immediately. Since I was locked out of these boards for a while, I have been looking at information found on this website: thesecret.pbworks.com . The moderator there, Oregonian, has put together a nice, easily readable site that gets one relatively caught up to speed fairly quickly. As you can see on the last post in the Image 8, Verse 1 solve page, I went to look around Hermann Park a few days ago, you can see an album of the photos here:
https://imgur.com/a/mTLtxuY
.
Anyway, to be honest with you all, after listening to Wilhouse speak on the “Shhh! The Secret Podcast” about his experience with the Houston Zoo…I have to say he has me quite convinced it was there. So many clues seem to line up, and BP seemed to believe it there as well, although he never outright said “Yes, its there”. But that won’t stop me from looking!
So if you’ve got a solve, or you’d like some pictures/a native Houstonians perspective, I’d love to be of service!

Welcome to the hunt! Do you have photos or videos from when you were young? That would be helpful in piecing together the way things used to look.

nashw

First of all, thanks to Mark Parry for hooking me up with an account…

Mark does alot for this forum seamlessly. I especially like his “light touch” policy even though sometimes it gets very routy and chaotic here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7e05pClKM

gManTexas

Welcome to the hunt! Do you have photos or videos from when you were young? That would be helpful in piecing together the way things used to look.

I don’t think any pictures from my childhood would be particularly useful, as the park had already changed quite drastically from its former 1980’s form by the time I had arrived in Houston. Next time I’m home I’ll ask my parents, but chances are slim that I have any useful material.

Choice

Mark does alot for this forum seamlessly. I especially like his “light touch” policy even though sometimes it gets very routy and chaotic here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7e05pClKM

For sure, most recently he mentioned having an issue with “Russian Porn Bots”, and had to specifically re-enable new member registration so I could sign up. And with super quick response times, especially for a self-proclaimed rare user of the site/inactive hunter nowadays. After quickly skimming just this forum thread I can see there are some…colorful…users that like to “contribute”. I’m sure I’d make a terrible moderator in the face of folks like that, more power to Mark.

nashw

I don’t think any pictures from my childhood would be particularly useful, as the park had already changed quite drastically from its former 1980’s form by the time I had arrived in Houston. Next time I’m home I’ll ask my parents, but chances are slim that I have any useful material.

I was looking at some YouTube videos from only 7-8 years ago and there have been a lot of changes. I think everything is useful. Maybe your folks have some photos of the old gardens and Garden Center.
Thanks!

Be mindful of your thoughts padawan nashw, they’ll betray you.

Was just looking at P8 again and noticed there are TWO larkspurs. The one I pointed out earlier (near the large globe) and one to the right of the rhinoceros’ head:

Giving people a “spoiler alert” of “where the treasure is” is rather unprofessional and ill founded.
wilhouse

There is a video and an article on the Houston search for Byron Priess’ treasure on a Houston Chronicle’s blog from Nov. 16, 2015.
Here is the link:
http://blog.chron.com/bayoucityhistory/ … mann-park/
Looks like more folks are joining the hunt here in Houston.

there was a lion drinking fountain in the cz, but it was on the other side by the restrooms.
wilhouse

what is the cz?

Childrens Zoo, Regulus.

Two things:
If you mean dig by the train tracks meaning the 982 train, there was nowhere to dig there, it was all rocks.
Digging by the Sam Houston statue is a non-starter.  They completely redid the area and dug it all up. I even talked to some of the workers about letting me know if they found anything (I doubt that they would, I gave them my card).  Now it is a protected area and if you showed up there with a shovel you’d probably be shot.
You guys are focused on the image, which is great and cool, but you still have to match it with the verse.  Overhead the water veers.  Through the woods, no lions fear. There’s nothing in any place except the CZ that matches that.  The djinn is wearing the hat of the imp in the CZ.  Note the totem poles have horizontal breaks like in the CZ.  No where around that area are there columns with horizontal breaks like in the picture.
Still I like and enjoy reading other’s thoughts. I never found the cask and if something leads us to it I’m more than happy to help someone find it.  I still think it’s either in the CZ (I have some thoughts where but I don’t know if I can dig there any more), or it got destroyed in the old upgrade.
Since I’ve never discovered the “center of 4 alike” I’m always open to thoughts on what that can be.
a rambling wihouse

Wilhouse, i thought you already said the Sam Houston was the middle with four trees around it.  The 1981 aerial is a bit blurry but it looks like the same trees.  I see the crosswalks and stairs were added later.
The spot i outlined looks like a small dirt median with a couple trees in it.  Standing there and looking true south you see the Monument fits the position and scale of the camel up and to the left of the center of your field of vision.  I dont know which direction the train comes, but that might determine which direction to face when you dig so that you can look back and see the train coming.  Those same trees and grass look to be there still.  Give another look at my diagram will you?

wilhouse

I still think it’s either in the CZ (I have some thoughts where but I don’t know if I can dig there any more), or it got destroyed in the old upgrade.

Where!?

WR, you’re right on that key reference and I love it.  I haven’t dismissed it at all, just haven’t got that far yet.  I’m only making a slight impression with the Starbuck connection.  I would prefer the mythological interpretation, but I don’t know Pierre.  After Moby Dick I read Billy Budd and then went straight to Norris and Steinbeck with The Octopus and Grapes of Wrath.  I am just wondering if anyone has considered this dig by the train tracks and keep perspective on the “camel” approach before getting into the quasi-layered-neurotic-narcoleptic-tangent approach that I’ve starkly and shamelessly used with the other images and verses.
I don’t know if this has been discussed yet, probably has, but what’s up with the distinct similarity of the arch base of the Sam Houston statue with Image 4?!  The blurring of lines and images seems indicative of a hand in the darkness.

Unknown

Unknown:
This midnight-spout had almost grown a forgotten thing, when, some days after, lo! at the same silent hour, it was again announced: again it was descried by all; but upon making sail to overtake it, once more it disappeared as if it had never been. And so it served us night after night, till no one heeded it but to wonder at it. Mysteriously jetted into the clear moonlight, or starlight, as the case might be; disappearing again for one whole day, or two days, or three; and somehow seeming at every distinct repetition to be advancing still further and further in our van, this solitary jet seemed for ever alluring us on.

Small of scale
Step across
Perspective should not be lost
Scale seems one of the central themes of this puzzle. The small animal-headed pillars of the zoo, and the large round-headed pillar of the aerial shot. The full-size 982 and the miniature railway. I feel these lines may be a direction to cross it.
I must admit it’s hard to get Moby out of your head with all this spouting going on. The beheaded behemoth might almost be lounging in the dunes.
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds
Could be the zoo fountain, though I think we’ve moved away from that past the Atropos Key. Could also be the fountain at the garden center. If there were miniature trains that whistled and blew steam, it was probably one of those.

wilhouse

I think some of the pics are actually maps.  the pic in image 1 appears to be a map of the area. The image 8 pic seems to be a map of the zoo.
I think that in some cases, the verse is specific (Eg’s “hop up”), in some cases cryptic (verse 1, small, split, three winged and slight).
You would think that the combination would be specific, but 22 years later, who knows.
wilhouse

I still haven’t got a sense for this image/verse.  It seems clear that there is no uncertainty about it being in Hermann Park.  The 982 and the children’s zoo being relocated is a bummer.
In the Cleveland thread, Wilhouse says,
I wonder if this super simple perspective on Sam Houston’s statue and the image as a map might be the way to go.  The star could be the casque location.  Notice how the camel is almost the same size as the Sam Houston.
I think we are expected to take the Melville connection a little further, rewind back from Pierre to Moby Dick.

erexere

I think we are expected to take the Melville connection a little further, rewind back from Pierre to Moby Dick.

Unknown

Unknown:
And here again, not unreasonably, might invocations go up to those Three Weird Ones, that tend Life’s loom. Again we might ask them, what threads were those, oh, ye Weird Ones, that ye wove in the years foregone?

I don’t think it’s any coincidence that the quotation from Pierre with the “strongest tower of delight” leads on to an invocation to the “Weird Three” (the
three Fates
who weave destiny; Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos) and there’s an “Atropos Key” right there, next to the zoo.
What happened to your love of Classical mythology all of a sudden? Why go researching a different Melville book when there’s a perfectly good answer in the one he’s actually quoted? Any why else did he quote that particular section?
(I’ll doubtless get shouted down again for mentioning it, but I think it’s also beyond coincidence that the description of the “spirits of Araby” which this puzzle concerns, given in the introduction, dwells on their “fabulous weaving techniques”. The clues in the introduction are whimsical and non-essential, sure, but they’re there if you look.)

Since we are talking about Image 8 matching with Verse 8, just figured that I would post questions about Image 8 in this thread.  There is apparently something which may be a modern art sculpture on the right side of the picture, disguised to look like a sand dune, I guess.  It would be nice if that sculpture was somewhere around Hermann Park.
There is also something next to the column with the camel on it.  A large sundial?  Any ideas?  Boy, that highres pic feature would come in handy here…… (hint, hint)
As for the stone floor, good catch on the lines resembling RR tracks.  But what about that one by itself in the lower left?  hmmm.  Also, if you notice, there is a clear demarcation of gray stones (the genie side) from the tan stones.  Perhaps this is some geographic outline?

I agree with your comments about the Llama names being intransient, and that concerns me too. But then, Preiss said he expected people to find the treasures right away…
When I go back I will get a shot of Brownie from the other side.
The elf fountain was put in the children’s zoo in the early 70’s (it was made in the 50’s, long story).  It was put there placed on stones in a concrete basin and used as a fountain. The elf itself is the fountain, kind of represented by the Djinn coming out of the column of water in P8. Water came from his right hand.
Sometime before 1982, the fountain was filled in with dirt. Not sure exactly when, however I have a picture dated August 1982 that shows the fountain completely filled in with dirt, with bushes growing in it.  It is not clear how deep it is, but it could be about 2 feet.  It is filled in now. Yes, it has a concrete bottom, but I believe it is deep enough to hide the cask.  The elf was moved to the center of the park in 2000 when the children’s zoo closed.
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
I like the idea of snowflake, as I own a llama named shamrock.

You own a llama ? ! ? !

used to live in the Los Angeles Suburbs. nice house – postage stamp sized lot.
5 years ago – we sold the house and moved to the Sierra Foothills above Sacramento,
Now we have 3 acres, 1 llama, 2 goats, 2 rabbits, 4 chickens, 2 cats, 2 dogs, and a lizard.
Llamas a pretty common around here. My daughters are in 4H which explains the chickens and goats. The llama acts as a watch animal and protects the goats and chickens from mountain lions and such.
Is there a thread with the numbers/letters found in each picture?

I like the idea of snowflake, as I own a llama named shamrock.
But, and I don’t mean to be a downer. going over the cleveland/Chicago clues – all the clues had permanance.
Statues, fountains,streetnames, carvings in monuments. stuff that would be expected to be there for a long time.
The name of an animal in a zoo, – or a snowcone cart – seems too transient to me
I think you have a match with the elf hat though –
I wish you had a photo of it from the other side. (matching the view of the ginn.
Explain to me why you are digging in the fountain?
was it not there in 82? and doesn’t the fountain have a cement bottom?

I want to ask again about the “exclamation point” after spout!
Looking back from treasure
ground
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds.
Anyone have a conclusion to their solve as to why the spout has an exclamation point? As many of you know my reason is that the spout is Sam Houston spouting out an order as he is pointing. I’ve not heard any other’s reasons for this.
I’m curious, whatcha got?

Guardian

Image matches:
Djinn’s headpiece/MOT
Paved area in left side of ground/museum sidewalk
Background/golf course
Gorilla (which has been hotly debated in the past)/gorilla atop pavilion
Shape of pole in foreground/map of reflecting pool area
The pole has another image match, which I’m keeping to myself because it locates one of my dig sites.

Not to argue, because we clearly see things differently. In contrast to the other images which matched exactly to real life statues landmarks and the like. Most of the visual confirmers for Hermann Park theory, from what I have seen the past decade of posts, were based on the “imagery” from the verse. i.e. the 982 train, lion water fountain, etc. Compared to the Leg eater matching exactly, the images in both the Cleveland and Chicago matching, exactly. The image 12 matching the statue of liberty, exactly. The Milwaukee lion’s face and City Hall matching, exactly. The map of Charleston on the tribal mask matching, exactly.
Not that I cannot accept the potential fact that a casque could be in Houston, TX. I just haven’t seen clear, matching – image to real life comparison of anything in the Hermann Park that confirms. The ones you listed are not at all matches to me. To me. Others might see it, I don’t I feel we could do better.
Good luck to you though on your digs.

MrBackstop

I want to ask again about the “exclamation point” after spout!

I take your point, but there’s a time and a place for punctuation marks. You wouldn’t question the placement of a comma or a semi-colon. “There’s the spout!” is, or can be, an exclamation. I don’t think there’s anything extraordinary about it.

WhiteRabbit

I take your point, but there’s a time and a place for punctuation marks. You wouldn’t question the placement of a comma or a semi-colon. “There’s the spout!” is, or can be, an exclamation. I don’t think there’s anything extraordinary about it.

Given the cryptic nature of the clues, I’d say the exclamation point is there for a reason. In cryptic clues, an exclamation point is usually used for a cryptic definition. For example,”spout” could be cryptic definition for a fountain (something that spouts water) or the funnel of a train (spouts smoke), etc.

PaulM

Given the cryptic nature of the clues, I’d say the exclamation point is there for a reason. In cryptic clues, an exclamation point is usually used for a cryptic definition. For example,”spout” could be cryptic definition for a fountain (something that spouts water) or the funnel of a train (spouts smoke), etc.

I’d say because it is unexpected.

wilhouse

…Also, in the top picture, the right side is cut off. that is the part I was most wanting to show – it has the GPR device. If it didn’t come out, let me know. It’s the big red thing. You drag it around over the areas you want to search.

It’s there.  Go to the bottom of that post and use the scroll bar to scroll to the right.

Unknown

Unknown:
FB, I hate to be picky but I was kind of hoping these would go in the GPR thread.  Also, in the top picture, the right side is cut off. that is the part I was most wanting to show – it has the GPR device. If it didn’t come out, let me know. It’s the big red thing. You drag it around over the areas you want to search.

Unknown

Unknown:
To answer your question, I have to stop laughing first, I am sorry.
The black “pipe” is an upside down plant pot, the type you get from home depot that plants are in.  We put it there because the hole we dug was so deep, that we were afraid people would hurt themselves if they stepped in it, and I was too tired to put the dirt back in. So I overturned a plant pot and stuck it in the hole!!!

One could scroll right, but it was easy for me to simply resize them (see above). I’ll also add these to the GPR thread.
Ah! That is good news. An unmolested casque site (maybe!).

Wilhouse,
If you take overlapping photos (in a circle) I would be happy to combine them into a 360º virtual tour.  A video would be great and would certainly cover more areas, but I thought I would offer anyway.  12 to 20 photos (overlapping about 15%) would be enough.

bclews, I probably have enough for that now, however, the problem is that the CZ is discontinuous, because it is broken into pieces, the pieces being the contact areas, so you could not just take pictures in a circle and have them make sense.
I plan to go back in a couple of weeks, I’ll take a bunch of pictures and videos and we can see what is best. thanks for the offer, it might work out for specific areas.
wilhouse

These are posted for wilhouse. I’ll let him provide captions, but I have a question: In the first photo we see a black pipe end (?) projecting from one of the dirt circles. Was that there in 1982? If not, that means there must have been excavation between then and now. I find that troubling.

FB, I hate to be picky but I was kind of hoping these would go in the GPR thread.  Also, in the top picture, the right side is cut off. that is the part I was most wanting to show – it has the GPR device. If it didn’t come out, let me know. It’s the big red thing. You drag it around over the areas you want to search.
To answer your question, I have to stop laughing first, I am sorry.
The black “pipe” is an upside down plant pot, the type you get from home depot that plants are in.  We put it there because the hole we dug was so deep, that we were afraid people would hurt themselves if they stepped in it, and I was too tired to put the dirt back in. So I overturned a plant pot and stuck it in the hole!!!
the lower picture has the computer on the stand that you use to record data from the GPR.  The other thing on the cart is the battery.
wilhouse

maltedfalcon

I’d love for you to send me your list – PM me if you don’t want to put it out there. I know of a couple people who actually have spent thousands of dollars on aggregating information and getting it out there for the public.
Still blanking on those who want to monetize this hunt though…

burnstyle

John wanted to sell tshirts for the podcast and had me design them, but left before they were finished.

John Michaels

My main concern is that you will take our information without any compensation…I’ve learned to expect to be raped of your info and get nothing in return. I am the main guy on this hunt… 5 offers have followed.

Egbert, or some other shitty lawyer

Mr. Pivanka owns the copyright and trademark for Shhh the Secret Podcast, notwithstanding the fact that you fraudulently recorded a federal copyright registration. The intellectual property of Mr. Pivanka is an extremely important and valuable asset of his business. Accordingly, Mr. Pivanka has instructed us to take the appropriate steps to protect his intellectual property and business interest.

Here’s just one person…
Obviously Renner and Gates would be another pair.
Are you really confounded about what Renovator means or who is trying to “monetize” (i.e., accrue value or one sort or another for themselves) by means of the puzzle?
People have been trying to use the information (or the information others supplied for free) in a manner that will bring them value for a while now. Some try to aggregate others’ information to build stature, which is valuable to selling oneself to a company for profit. Some use the puzzle in attempt to bring themselves value in a way that will open up other opportunities.
Just because someone tries to “monetize” themselves with the puzzle and it doesn’t pay off doesn’t mean they haven’t monetized. It just means they made a bad investment or are a shitty businessman.
Isn’t the 13th casque a method of monetizing on the secret hunt as well?
I’d be happy to discuss further if you’d like to, MF. Feel free to PM me.

Euhirudinea

Which is essential if you are serious about trying to, you know, actually solve the puzzle.
My two cents

Unknown

Unknown:
Familiarizing yourself with the historical record is essential if you are serious about solving the puzzle.

But you know, until the next casque is found, all ideas are good ideas. Including digging in White Point Garden using the wrong verse for guidance.

Euhirudinea

And it’s still the best resource for historical information. Which is essential if you are serious about trying to, you know, actually solve the puzzle.

But is it really? A bunch of people quit the forum, for their own reasons, and took their posts with them. There are now huge gaps in the information stream. Not to mention that many old timers have just abandoned the forum, so we no longer have those resources at our disposal.

Unknown

Unknown:
But is it really?

IMO, yes, really. With the possible exception of Fenix’s, most of the deleted posts added very little value. As for the old timers who have left, I don’t think any of them have deleted their accounts, so while they may no longer be contributing, their past contributions are still here for everyone to see, and evaluate.
As an aside, I’m not really sure why Mark P. allows people to delete their posts. It seems to me that once someone posts something on a public message board, those ideas no longer belong exclusively to them. They are part of the public domain, and should be treated accordingly. Asking for them to be removed just seems spiteful and petty to me. It’s the internet equivalent of taking your ball, and going home.
And to bring this discussion back on topic, I think understanding why some people believe that the Houston casque was destroyed when the Children’s Zoo was remodeled is important. Just as important as understanding why other’s don’t believe that to be the case at all.

gManTexas

Any thoughts on my question regarding the Wizard of Oz reference and the tunnel? Interestingly, there is also the Oz reference in Verse 11.

gManTexas asked a question awhile back about the tunnel at Hermann Park after reading a wiki article. Came across this snippet from a user called Tony (posted on the wiki site last week) who also backed this up. But thought this was quite interesting if true, especially if he recalls it as a kid during the 80’s. Looking at aerial images of the same view in 1978-89 this tunnel area was heavily wooded:
“Someone here [wiki] had mentioned the tunnel as a kid and that it played Wizard of Oz music and was spooky inside. I remember that as well and wondering that is some how related to “the woods no lion fears,” ie the Cowardly Lion?”
89 view:
80’s view:

Euhirudinea

IMO, yes, really. With the possible exception of Fenix’s, most of the deleted posts added very little value. As for the old timers who have left, I don’t think any of them have deleted their accounts, so while they may no longer be contributing, their past contributions are still here for everyone to see, and evaluate.
As an aside, I’m not really sure why Mark P. allows people to delete their posts. It seems to me that once someone posts something on a public message board, those ideas no longer belong exclusively to them. They are part of the public domain, and should be treated accordingly. Asking for them to be removed just seems spiteful and petty to me. It’s the internet equivalent of taking your ball, and going home.
And to bring this discussion back on topic, I think understanding why some people believe that the Houston casque was destroyed when the Children’s Zoo was remodeled is important. Just as important as understanding why other’s don’t believe that to be the case at all.

Some great points here.
I’m in the camp that believes it was never in the Children’s Zoo. I don’t see how the Verse supports that.

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m in the camp that believes it was never in the Children’s Zoo. I don’t see how the Verse supports that.

I can only assume that this is an informed opinion, based on the best available evidence, including Mark’s comments on the podcast. Interestingly, the problem (IMO) isn’t that the Verse doesn’t lead you directly and unambiguously (as possible anyway) to the Children’s Zoo. It’s that it does.

Euhirudinea

I’d like to think it was a clarification. But with regard to my original statement, I can think of at least 4 people (besides the creators) who have tried to actually monetize this puzzle, as in make money off of it. Without exception, their efforts have had what I consider to be a detrimental effect on this puzzle in general, and on this forum in particular. It’s my opinion, and I stand by it as far as it goes.
There is/was a casque buried in Houston. BP confirmed this. The prevailing wisdom is that it is/was buried somewhere in Hermann Park. BP might have confirmed this as well when he told Mark that he was “close”. We should be using Image 8 and Verse 1 to solve this puzzle.
There, back on topic.

I’d love for you to send me your list – PM me if you don’t want to put it out there. I know of a couple people who actually have spent thousands of dollars on aggregating information and getting it out there for the public.
Still blanking on those who want to monetize this hunt though…
But to get back on topic.
My opinion, based on the best available evidence, including Mark’s comments on the podcast,
is I agree with gManTexas, it was never in the Children’s Zoo. Not surprisingly, Mark dissagrees with me.

Unknown

Unknown:
it was never in the Children’s Zoo.

I agree. And feel compelled to point out that I’ve been saying this for years. Not surprisingly, Mark does not agree with me either.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=738&p=139795#p139795

Houston is my main area of searching.
but there does not seem to be really anything to discuss.
For those who think that the casque was buried in the children’s zoo then the casque is gone and the hunt is over
For those who do not, then there is really nothing let to do but poke holes.
For the other nine The Japanese version was a big revealer but most ignore those clues and seem to drift back to the old theories than incorporate the Japanese clues
now I only question some of the verse image pairings. Some image verse pairings are rather solid, almost too solid I say for those that seem solid I do question why they haven’t been found.
but then I think verse 1 image 8 is solid and I have poked a thousand probe holes in Herman park.
It is mind boggling how massive a small patch of land can be when you try to probe every 5 inches 2 feet deep

They definitely arent exact matches (which may be what we need) but the columns in the P may refer to the Mecom-Rockwell fountain & Colonnade which is at the entrance to Hermann Park.
http://www.ci.houston.tx.us/departme/pa … tory3.html
still searching for small split 3-winged and slight….

Fox, try this.
Instead of 3-winged, think three with wings (three that are winged). Like three birds, three faries, three angels.
I posted some pictures of the fountain columns. They are pretty radically different.
wilhouse

GaryLeeLoveBuckets” post=”416341549

I believe what he later said when pressed about it was “All I can say is I.”
Because of how strange it is, I’m wondering if it is, itself a clue.  Could the second “I” be a Roman numeral 1?  There’s two I can point out, one in the middle of the orb pillar and one near the top of the camel pillar.

Unknown

Unknown:
and the concept of individuality has been eliminated (for example,
the use of the word “I” is punishable by death).

I posted this at the Awful Forums, but you guys should have a crack at it.
HOUSTON
HOUSTON, WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT HERE
OK, something I just noticed, looking back through the thread.  Someone mentioned that “cold as glass” in the verse that’s supposed to be for Houston refers to a line in Anthem that mentions train tracks.
At one point, Preiss was pressed as to where the cask was.  I cannot find the quote right now, but his hint was, “All I can say is “I””.
All this time, everyone has thought that he was referring to the I shaped section of Hermann Park or the I shaped pillars in the image.  I went back to look at the
synopsis for Anthem
and this jumped out at me.
f**k, I’ve got goosebumps now.  I think we need to go read Anthem.  This is the first time I’ve seen any connection to Houston and Anthem.

the Miller Outdoor Theater looks like a pyramid.  Seems like a good link to the illustration which doesn’t have pyramids, but has stone work like that of a pyramid on the ground and a desert background.

I keep leaning toward Tranquility Park these days.
My biggest problem with
any
of the locations though, is the lack of findable clues.  We don’t really find the imagery in the painting anywhere.  I can point to you things that suggest Tranquility Park, and I can point to things that say Hermann Park.  But both places have significant details in the pictures that just don’t exist in that location.

maltedfalcon

I think you are right not intrinsicly valueable, but it would be considered art… and art has been classed as treasure many many times before…
it all depends on the District Attorney, and if there is one thing that will make a DA stick to the rules, its publicity and value or not this will make the news…

The Harris County DA is Democrat, and I’m a Party member in standing. I may be able to have some influence. Trust ne, with the crap she’s getting from the Houston PD right now (it has to do with thousands of pieces of evidence that went missing *before* she took office), she needs some good publicity. I’ll contact her tomorrow.

Guardian

The Harris County DA is Democrat, and I’m a Party member in standing. I may be able to have some influence. Trust ne, with the crap she’s getting from the Houston PD right now (it has to do with thousands of pieces of evidence that went missing *before* she took office), she needs some good publicity. I’ll contact her tomorrow.

Ummmm Good publicity for a DA would be prosecuting someone who flagrantly ignored city laws and regulations.

maltedfalcon

Ummmm Good publicity for a DA would be prosecuting someone who flagrantly ignored city laws and regulations.

Anything that upholds the intent of the law is good publicity.
It’s a common mistake to think the prosecution is supposed to convict every defendant. Their job is to get the truth, whether guilty or innocent. Even experienced attorneys don’t understand this. Pointing out that the casque and key aren’t the actual treasure, as you mentioned, could have a number of benefits, including reducing the number of illegal digs in HP.
It’s possible that the target was such as pirate treasure, like all the ones supposedly across Galveston Island. In that case, she can step in. The exact meaning is really all she would need.

I just sent the email. Let’s hope for the best.

Guardian

It’s possible that the target was such as pirate treasure, like all the ones supposedly across Galveston Island. In that case, she can step in. The exact meaning is really all she would need.

I guess I am not sure why you are differentiating between Generic Pirate Treasure and “The Secret, A Treasure Hunt”
of course The casque certainly fits the definition under rare and desired.

if it isnt in houston than we have one of the picture wrong because Preiss said there is one in houston and this is the only picture we are actually closest to being houston

yes, houston seems to be a good fit….too perfect..?.. i hope not.  The entire P fits better in NV but the lat/lon seen is hard to explain.  My only problem is this….are we sure the 982-V goes with this P?  Maybe Houston is the V but not the P or vice-versa.  We need to find another casque to start narrowing down our searches.
feel free to keep the ideas coming AQ, no idea is a dumb one…’cept for maybe 4corners  😉

I think there only a very small chance that the Houston casque is recoverable.  I only just read that the Miller Hill was actually raised in 2009.  Previously I read notes that it was only regraded on the seating side to create a steeper seating arrangement and open the inner field for additional seating.
Maybe someone can find out more specifics on the hill improvements.  Could it be that they just dumped a bunch of new dirt on it, graded it, and put new sod?  Was the top layer fully scraped off first?  Where did the new irrigation improvements get placed?  Was additional electrical conduit needed for the new lights?  Seems to me there was a lot of trenching to go with the new hill.
Now I know how Wilhouse feels.

maltedfalcon

Thats true, so far I have seen nothing that fits better than what Wilhouse came up with.

erexere

Help.
Has the roof pattern of the Miller Outdoor Theater been altered significantly since 1980?  While looking for architectural similarities between the metal beams and those used in railroad construction I just noticed it has what looks like a spider web pattern.

I don’t know, did he really come up with something that fits?
Sure, there were similarities here and there.  But we leapt to “the 982” being the locomotive very quickly.  Now, I have to say that it is
very
persuasive and I’ve yet to see anything else that matches.  However,
everything
after that is shoehorned in, despite the fact that nothing else in the park looks much like anything else in the photo.  Sure, I can see the outline of a locomotive in the shadow of the Djinn, and I can see how the pillar and ball look like the reflecting pond and circle in the park, and that weird thing on the tile in the corner is the universal symbol for railroad… and so on.  But is there really undeniable truth there?  Wilhouse really reached trying to prove that things were in the Children’s Zoo.
Personally, I never saw anything that led directly to the zoo.  The 982 was always stationed outside of the zoo, and no one has ever shown me how you get from the 982 to inside the zoo by reading the verse.  Sure, there’s a camel and a rhino, and
maybe
that means the zoo, but it could mean many other things as well.  People point out the Rhino head sign in the zoo — but that wasn’t there in 1982.
Bottom line: wilhouse was so sure it was in the Children’s Zoo that he damn near dug up the whole thing.  I admire that he had that much tenacity and will to get it done, but what if he was wrong?  What if he was so convinced it was there, he used the very cryptic wordings and drawings to “prove” it to everyone?  What if Preiss’s comment about digging in the zoo meant that he didn’t think it was a total waste of time — because maybe we’d stop looking there or maybe we’d do some work that needed to be done to rebuild the zoo — and that he couldn’t promise what we’d find because he honestly didn’t know what might be buried there?  That makes more sense to me than him implying that someone
should
dig there.  He never even comes close to saying “yes, dig” or “you might find the treasure there”.  In the past, both in Cleveland and Chicago, when people got very close, he was pretty open about telling them they’d found the spot.
I challenge everyone to go back and read through this thread.  The “fact” that it’s in Hermann Park was established very early and very quickly without much discussion.  Later, we get into some cryptic cartwheels to continue to justify it.  Maybe it was buried there.  But considering how much effort has been put into Hermann Park, I’d say it’s not a bad idea to look elsewhere in Houston.
No, it hasn’t.  I can’t find any of the historical photos I’ve seen of it, but it’s pretty obvious when you look through old photos and old aerial imagery that it hasn’t changed significantly since it was built.

I’m worried there might have been some chance destruction of the casque from trenching irrigation or electrical lines and then some additional soil along with just minor adjustments to the angle from the face slit of the statue and the apex horn of the theater that there’s just way too much variation to pinpoint.
I’m grumpy too.
I’m set on Hermann Park because there are worthy visual matches.  The pier stone being my favorite.  The literary quote from Piere being my second favorite.  The 982 has one heck of a punch when you consider the lat / long and some train-type hintings.  Any hint is a shoehorn in this game.  I totally appreciate you’re thoughts and I’m even open to considering non-Hermann park ideas.  I once had my eyes set on a field where blimps landed just a tad to the north.  I even thought the First Tower on Fannin had some really cool visual characteristics to the brick perspective and column proportions in the far background.

Mr B, I loved that column match found by wilhouse. I don’t believe we’re dealing with a breadcrumb type puzzle in image 8. Everything, and I mean everything may be attributed to a single site in Hermann Park. It just takes a little understanding of how Preiss is using the verse. If you’re literal minded, you’ll think “go to the 982 train, look for next clue”, but if you’re willing to step back and ask “hey, why does Preiss ask us to take our task to the 982,” you might realize the nugget or essence of the line is to identify something -it’s a train. I believe the task is the verb form of train, meaning we have to isolate a perspective where we find focus or aim. I believe that’s achieved by the Atropos Key sculpture.

I see that verse as emphasizing this way:
Friendship south
Take our task – Starting point
Then its basically saying go passed 982 – waymarker along the walk
Through the wood – Atropos Key donated by Patricia Woodward
No lion fears
In the sky the water veers – Mecom Fountain
The thing that bothers me about wood is that it is not Capitalized for a Name so it could possibly just be referring the woods but then again, when talking about the woods….nobody says wood. But it could be chalked up to creative license.

Yeah, I don’t agree with walk around. Mecom can be seen to work but I see the water veers line as a driving focus on the roof feature if the MOT where water in the form of rain will be redirected from its decent. That focus on the roof helps makes my case for picturing the apex through the 4 equal sided mouth of Atropos.

I originally thought the Rhino column was a graphic representation of Miller Outdoor Theater, but that didn’t make sense to me anymore concerning the fact that the Persian man’s face and cover is the MOT stage. I now see that Rhino column as the George R. Brown education center.
When I took a look at it, a Rhino’s head popped into mind.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/geor … a=!3m1!1e3
George and Herman Brown are two philanthropists who donated all kinds of money to Houston over the years. The Rhino Column has a blue halo color around it and looks just like the top of this building with the Triangular eye. I believe this is telling us that we start at the George R. Brown Education Center.
Fortress north
– Downtown Houston
Cold as glass
– Glassell School of Art
Friendship south
– Houston Zoo’s George R. Brown Education Center
I also like this because in the image the Rhino column is behind the Persian man (MOT). Has anyone used the George R. Brown building in their solve?

I don’t think anyone has.

what about Charleston? do you have any input on Charleston or Image 2? because that is much more important than image 8 I believe. If we can solve image 2, will unlock a lot of connections and information.

erexere

I don’t think anyone has.

I find the style of the column to look like the old wood columns in North American part of the zoo that someone posted. And the GRB Education Center is at the front of the zoo which would seem like a good place to start our walk.

Spiritr

what about Charleston? do you have any input on Charleston or Image 2? because that is much more important than image 8 I believe. If we can solve image 2, will unlock a lot of connections and information.

I don’t have anything to add to Charleston yet. Continuing to look at that but spending more time in Houston and SF at the moment. My thoughts on Houston are coming together.

When does the back hoe get fired up?

August time frame
wilhouse

Guardian

If it were in the same place, I’d say the western edge. But, since it’s been moved, there’s no point. First, a picture shows the entire ground was dug up
by hand
, so somebody would have found it. Second, the spot is now the center of a parking lot.

I am interested in the photo of area being dug by hand
Do you know where I may reference it.

Unknown

Unknown:
dug by hand

I’ve seen pictures of the area during construction. Given what I’ve been told about the soil in Houston, I’d say that it was very unlikely that it was entirely dug up by hand although I’m sure there was some shovel work involved, especially around the piers.

Doghousereiley

I am interested in the photo of area being dug by hand
Do you know where I may reference it.

There’s a photo online. It’s on my computer at home and I don’t have home Internet, but it shows the Pavilion on struts made of planks (IIRC, they’re planks). The only way they could have done that safely is to dig by hand and put them there one by one. I’ll see if I can find it while I’m online.

Guardian

There’s a photo online. It’s on my computer at home and I don’t have home Internet, but it shows the Pavilion on struts made of planks (IIRC, they’re planks). The only way they could have done that safely is to dig by hand and put them there one by one. I’ll see if I can find it while I’m online.

I can’t find it. I’ll take a photo of the pic on my computer tonight and upload it by phone, if this site will let me upload directly.

Unknown

Unknown:
The only way they could have done that safely is to dig by hand and put them there one by one.

A quick Google Image search (Friendship Pavillion Houston) shows pretty much everything you need to see with regard to how they moved the structure. Relatively speaking, the Pavillion is a rather small load, but still too big to assume that the excavation was done by hand. If the casque was buried there, most likely it was the victim of a Bobcat, Skid Steer, or some other similar piece of excavating equipment.

Okay, I’m back in the trees.
I’ve seen the letter “L” upside down in the tree on the right, I’ve got that as Loop….as in Hermann Loop Drive. I also see the bent branch with the number 95 on it as Hermann Park Drive going toward the Sam Houston Statue and onto Hermann Loop Dr toward the Mecom Fountain.
Also, I believe the lady’s face just above the Mummy is supposed to represent Caroline Street which starts at Hermann Park and runs through the Museum District.
Any weekend thoughts on this?

maltedfalcon

Agree!

Thanks for sharing and the recommendation. I also enjoyed listening to the podcast.
Time to give this one a go, I guess.

MM, are you over by the colonnade?

MrBackstop

MM, are you over by the colonnade?

As far as where I’m looking, I can’t give that away just yet until I’ve fully explored the area.
On another note, for those like me that believe it is in Hermann Park and want to figure out what the park might have looked like in 1981, I thought I would recommend the following:
Houston’s Hermann Park: A Century of Community (Sara and John Lindsey Series in the Arts and Humanities) –
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KDSVXSC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
It does a pretty good job detailing the evolution of the park.
MM

its to the right of the obelisk, in the woods somewhere around or under the tracks. (when facing obelisk)…this i am certain. however, youll need some metal detection equipment or a gpr to be successful as shit has been moved.

anus905

its to the right of the obelisk, in the woods somewhere around or under the tracks. (when facing obelisk)…this i am certain. however, youll need some metal detection equipment or a gpr to be successful as shit has been moved.

Hey Josh! Welcome back!

For the record (and I realize none of this means anything until the casque is found), I just want state that I fundamentally disagree with the casque being in the children’s zoo and think it’s absolutely illogical to be there.
I realize a bunch of people believe it’s there. I’m not saying they don’t have the right to their opinion… All I’m saying is that, after listening to their argument objectively through writing and podcasts, I still disagree with them.
I wish them the best of luck, but I still feel they aren’t looking in the correct spot and that’s why they haven’t found it.
MM

I mean, everyone wants you to be right. Even Wilhouse.
Is your reasoning based on anything new, or is it the usual, “why would he bury it
In such a public place that you would have to break in?”

drunknerds

I mean, everyone wants you to be right. Even Wilhouse.
Is your reasoning based on anything new, or is it the usual, “why would he bury it
In such a public place that you would have to break in?”

As far as “New,” who knows.
There are a ton of really smart people on these boards and I’m not going to pretend otherwise. After doing these types of hunts for awhile now, I completely realize there are many people who likely have already guessed the right spot for this particular treasure after 37 years. From experience, the real question with these types of hunts is, how many of these really intelligent people who actually knew where it was really went to Houston to probe, then dig to find it for a $1,000 treasure… I’m guessing not many at all.
Here’s what I know. I have partnered with another guy. We have solved many of these types of arm chair hunts together in past and been rewarded. We both live in Texas. We both think we have found the right spot. I have probed and hit something in the spot we thought it was at. We both will be checking next week. Are we right, knowing how these things go, probably not, but there’s also a chance that we will be.
Like everyone else when it comes to these hunts, we do our best and try to think of everything, we roll the dice, and hope it’s our turn to get lucky. I can tell you it’s a really good solve that will make all the children zoo people think there possibly could be another possible solution that has nothing to do with the wiki.
MM

I just meant, what’s your reasoning for why its silly to consider the zoo

good luck. Whether it’s there or not, when you are done please post your solve

Hermann Park = Illustration #8/Verse #1 = Non-Debatable.
Children Zoo = Very Debatable

Minotaur_moreno

We have solved many of these types of arm chair hunts together in past and been rewarded.

By “these types” of hunts, do you just mean armchair-style in general? Might we have heard about any of your past successes? Were any of them well-known hunts? How many have you tried and yet failed to solve?
I’ve partnered with someone who solved a location from the book “A Treasures Trove” but he couldn’t travel to the location. I’ve dug up an emerald from “The Clock Without a Face” and have participated in other treasure hunts, puzzle hunts, escape rooms, etc. (You should see my bookcase!) Those experiences mean almost nothing for solving this one. Every hunt is different. It is a broad genre with narrow hallways.

catherwood

I’ve dug up an emerald from “The Clock Without a Face”

I noticed your name attached to this solve, before. Much respect.

Most of the pics posted a year or two ago (or three) are no longer there.  I would really like to see the cross/star thing in the kids area.  The star in image8 is strange.  Ok, what isn’t.. But this has a circle around it and not a true star with the five points in it. Image2 has the five pointer indicating military Fort Sumpter.  Wouldn’t the Texas Lone star be the same?  If I were to draw a picture of a train, the wheels would look just like that- minus the cross of course.  Unless…. it was moving.  I think it is key, because of the way it is presented.  As a rail Car Inspector, maybe the wheel just sticks out.  I look at them everyday.
Anyway, I’ll investigate it further. Just a different point of view to throw in.  Heaven knows you’ve got to be exhausted Wilhouse.

Heck, wilhouse, I might even fly out and join you this fall if my teaching schedule permits it.

take a look at this overhead map.  look at the middle where the 4 contact areas marked LA, NA, Africa, Asia meet.  circle with a cross in the middle.
I will post the date we’re going to dig well in advance.  I will clear it with the zoo director if people want to come help dig through the spoils.
wilhouse

As I mentioned in another thread, I believe there is a connection with the faeries’ country of origin and where each treasure is buried.  The Irish faeries buried their treasure in Chicago, where there is a large Irish population.  The Greek faeries buried their treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens in Cleveland.
“The Ruby out of Araby:
Scarlet of the desert sky at dawn.”
This picture refers to the arabian faeries’ treasure.  Is there anything in Herrmann Park which would have an arabian connection?

Fenix, actually I understood most of everything that you said.  I unfortunately believe that the camels were relocated and were once on the other side of the park. I am trying to get verification of that.
What I was having trouble deciding is where the lake is that you think looks like the hill in P8?  Is it in the golf course across the street (I hope we don’t have to dig in a golf course, that would be bad.)
wilhouse

The golf course has sand traps…could that be a golf ball on one of the columns?
wilhouse

The golf couse has been there since the 60’s.  It was the first golf course to be integrated (a little history for you).
According to the web, those places on the golf course that look like water are really sand traps.
The place that was the old children’s zoo is being refurbished into the “African area”.  I walked around it last time I was there.  There are some buildings there.  I just can’t believe that they could have buried this thing in the zoo itself.
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
You often see drawings where people just arbitrarily place a single [vanishing-point] somewhere on the page and then start drawing. …It’s not a big no-no and frankly you see people do it all the time.

Unknown

Unknown:
A professor of mine taught us a way to draw lines to vanishing points that went off the page…

some discussions about single-vanishing-point perspectives.
http://www.benzilla.com/?p=3683
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showth … hing-point
http://www.thedrawingwebsite.com/wp-con … e-page.jpg
The location of VP is an artistic choice, not a hard rule.

I don’t see it as a case of being a hard rule. In visual reality, the vanishing point IS dead-center. In the drawn medium, an artist can deviate however it suits their purpose. What that purpose was, be it JJP’s choice or BP’s instruction, is a reasonable inquiry.

WhiteRabbit

(A while back I wrote off to the
Hyde Park United Civic Association
, and they finally got back. Apparently the one in Lamar Park is still there, so I can still hang onto my dolphin theory for a bit…
)

Ha
looking at the above site and clicking on the link ‘Lamar Park – Hidden GEM’ found this

you guys, this is what BP told wilhouse:
” it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever “
right wilhouse?

Thanks Slappy – guess I need to read
General Questions
…

Slappy,
yes, that is exactly right.
I emailed him several times about the location:
____________________
it might be there…
bp,
Byron, the children’s zoo is being rennovated and bulldozed over. I
only have a few months to find the casque. After that, if it is
in the children’s zoo, it will be destroyed and I will be heartbroken.
Can you at least confirm whether I am in the right location or not? We
found the original article on the casque found in chicago
and noticed that you did originally advise the Chicago finders that they
were right. If I am in the wrong location, then the clues to
the casque are gone and the hunt is over anyways. Any information that
you would be willing to give up would be greatly appreciated.
wilhouse
_______________________
then, in response to the photo that I sent him which showed the image 8 superimposed on the CZ:
From:
[email protected]
To: wilhouse
Subject: Re: A final plea before it’s too late
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:43:38 EDT
> it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any
> guarantees whatsoever
_____________________
This was the last email I received from him, as he passed away shortly afterwards.
Let me be clear, BP and I conversed about many subjects.  I am an avid sci fi reader and I purchased many books he published.  I tried not to overload him on Secret stuff cause after Egbert found his cask he received hundreds of emails on the subject. I tried to make sure that I only emailed him sporadically about the secret.
He told me once that I had the wrong location, when I was out by the fountains near the museum.  He told me several times that he couldn’t tell me any more, just to later tell me I was close.
His message that it would not be a waste of time to dig there was, in my humble opinion, as close as he would come to telling me I was right.  I say this because he had told me when I was wrong before.
I still think it’s there, but our opportunity to get it is small.
wilhouse

Aha, OK. Thanks for explaining that. Incidentally, which puzzles offer the best hope of recovery, in your opinion…?

(A while back I wrote off to the
Hyde Park United Civic Association
, and they finally got back. Apparently the one in Lamar Park is still there, so I can still hang onto my dolphin theory for a bit…
)

I want to review some notes for The Secret A Treasure Hunt book starting with page 16…where the line starts….
“Now, in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia’s
Mountains of Kaf
, appeared a caravan of magic-wrought carpets, and upon them rode the banished elder spirits of Araby: monsterous
Deevs
, desert-born giants; the
Peri
, bright and beautiful as starlight; and the wish-granting
Djinn
, formed of smokeless fire, at last free from Man’s lamps and bottles”
1. Mountains of Kaf: (definition of Kaf) – “the camel’s hump” or “the hand”. (Arabic)
NOTE: In image 8 there is a camel on top of one of the pillars. This gives us the visual reference.
2. Website link:
http://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/kaf-ajnoun.htm
Kaf Ajnoun (Cave of the Jinn)
Mountain of Ghost: Devil’s Hill
The haunted natural rock
fortess
of Idinen, also known as the legendary “Fortress of Ghosts”, or Cave of the Jinn, is located in the southern region of Libya.
.
.
These images of the Kaf Aljnoun, also known as The Devils hill, the genies castle, the mountain of ghost or the jinn city…looks like the hill in the background of image 8.
3. (Book) Paradise Revisited: The Roots of Civilization (by Michael A. Cahill)
Asia –
The Peri
The
Peri
are the fairy people of Persia, where they represent the beings of forest and rivers. Like other fairies, they can be either friendly to human beings or else act as a hinderance to them. They were believed to emanate from a demon, but it was discovered that the
Deevs
(giants) had abducted and imprisoned them in iron cages like birds and hung at the tops of trees. These imprisoned Peri were kept alive by their companions, who brought them nourishment in the form of perfumes that they ate.. It is believed that the Peri were fallen angels that had repented to late to be accepted into heaven. The Peris are thought to represent the light and good forces of nature that are constantly at forces with the dark evil forces call Deevs. The fairies were invisible spirits that inhabited the subterranean earth. They were said to have powers that could influence and corrupt humans as well as take any shape or form, such as animals or even humans.
NOTE: In image 8, i believe the giant columns represent the Deevs, the north star represents the Peri, and the jinn (genie) represents the captured Peri that has been bottle up inside Man’s lamp.
IN CONCLUSION: (verse 1)
1.
The importance of the very first line FORTRESS NORTH..i think refers to the “Mountains of kaf” as stated above
. The legends of the Deev and Peri seems to be what Byron Preiss based his Persian theme in image 8. The photograph of the mountains looks similar to the background hill in image 8. Kaf meaning camels hump is represented in the column with the camel. The Sam Houston statue at hermann park has the same type column base that the camel/horse sits on. The capturing of the Peri and putting them in iron cages and having companions feed theme perfumes to eat…hints to the
houston zoo
.

Here is my rough attempt to draw the outline of Texas. I also think the county of Harris which includes Houston is outlined at the right.
There ought to be something in the genies shadow but not found anything yet.

Image 8, Hermann Park.
I came up with the inferred theme of how this casque is located based on the Melville book Moby Dick.  Early in the story, Ahab nails a gold coin to the Pequod’s mainmast and promises it as reward to the first person to spy the great white whale, Moby Dick.
I’m really sorry if this causes anyone to have a brain hemorrhage.
[spoiler]Gold and spy whale = Golden Spiral[/spoiler]

Unknown

Unknown:
Note also the foliage.  It is much more developed than I expected.  I don’t think Preiss would have dug up bushes.
EGBERT: where you dug up your casque it was just dirt right? No bushes there?

Well, where the treasure was buried, it was just dirt.  But there were bushes there, about 2 feet away.  You’re right, though — he would not have buried the treasure underneath bushes.

Check out the latest images I just posted. These are images made from slides the zoo director had, and you can really zoom in on them. I use paint shop pro, but even Windows Picture Viewer did a good job.  Save the images to your hard drive to really look at them.  These slides were from 1978:
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js … mbdmzaNmF0
Note the darker one.  It is of the center of the four contact areas, with the japanese lantern. It is facing south, looking at the brownie the elf fountain in the background.  Note the tile pavers around the lantern. You can see them if you zoom in. That means that the casque is NOT in the center of the 4 areas.  But, could that circular area be a representation of the globe in Image 8?
Note also the foliage.  It is much more developed than I expected.  I don’t think Preiss would have dug up bushes.
EGBERT: where you dug up your casque it was just dirt right? No bushes there?
The other two shots are of the nursery with the globe lights and the aqua tunnel.
wilhouse

The city completely redid that fountain area.  I watched some of it.  If it was there it’s gone now.
wilhouse

(Thanks wilhouse…)

Wilhouse, i see you used a GPR in the zoo. what kind of gpr did you use? wha software did you use for the results? have you looked into building one on your own? i think the technlogy is there for someone to build one but you need to be well versed in engineering.

you’ll have to look at the photos I posted to see the brand. We borrowed one from a local company that does underground analysis.  The views were bad cause there’s so much stuff underground (pipe, cables, etc).  No idea about what software.
No I haven’t thought at all about building one. Seems like a lot of work…
wilhouse

Fenix, yes, there is an old log cabin across the street from the zoo. It is a “museum”.  Actually, I’ve never been there. Perhaps I should go take a look.
wilhouse

Im uncertain of where exactly the connecting of the apex of the MOT to the face of the Atropos Key gets us. I think a perspective taken from the eye level with ground is a good place to start.

erexere

Im uncertain of where exactly the connecting of the apex of the MOT to the face of the Atropos Key gets us.

Yes, I’ve read the threads. I live in Houston as well and used to bike regularly through Hermann Park in that area. I live in the Heights now, so I’m not in the area as much as I used to be when I lived in the Medical Center.
My comment was really centered around how much that area has changed in the past decade that I’ve been in Houston.
There is some archival aerial footage available for the park from 1981, in a google map style setup. A few years ago, right as the Ideson Library building was completed with the renovations I reviewed some materials, similar to the ones you found there, unrelated to Priess’ treasure as I was looking at how Hermann Park and the Zoo have changed over the years. I’m a sucker for useless Houston trivia and history. LOL.
I thought your insights from the FB postings were particularly interesting, but it highlights exactly what you mentioned in your post about how difficult it is to determine what was and was not there in 1981.

Hey Everyone. Tank (from tweleve) and I just got back from a morning at the zoo.  They were happy to see us!!
We spent an hour with the zoo directory and the head of horticulture.  He is the one who drives the dozer.
We scouted the area and took pictures. Tank took digital videos, which he is going to edit and we’ll post.  I’ll post the pics later.
They have agreed to dig up most of the dirt around the party room for us. He doesn’t think it will take more than an hour or two.  The plan is still to do it in September some time, probably late Sept.
I’ll post some of my thoughts later as I recover. It was hot as usual.  No digging, the ground was just too hard.
wilhouse

I too, look forward to hearing what you have to say. I don’t know that I personally have much to add to the discussion. I can hold my own when discussing certain ideas about Image 8, but others have spent significantly more time than me with this particular image.

Most of the long silence is due to the fact that there is not much new to discuss – at least nothing that is considered credible. We await your theory!

hey guys…typing up my theory this weekend. sorry….i posted my intro and then some work got in the way.
apologies.
– dero

Unknown

Unknown:
There are always folks here keeping an eye out for new ideas.

Count me among them. Looking forward to what Jermaine has to offer.

Hi everyone…
My name is Jermaine Rogers. I’m an artist who lives in Houston…I was born and raised here. I know the Herman area very well…it’s very special ground to me…lots of memories. I actually live within walking distance, just down Montrose Blvd.
My work/career has enabled me to live in various spots all over the country…but I am now living back in Houston, Texas, where I was born and raised. I was lured back home by, among other things, my intimate and tight connection with Hermann Park. I’ve been familiar with the Preiss mystery for some time, but never had the time or the circumstance to give it serious attention. In the recent weeks, I have.
I had an epiphany of sorts late last week and drove down to check some things out.
I think most of the guessing that is common about this particular casque location online is incorrect…in fact, I’m sure of it. And I think I can prove it. It involves remembering some keynote things that used to be in the area…things that everyone who frequented the area would remember. It also includes knowing certain things about Herman Park, and what would’ve been allowed there (as far as digging) in 1981/82.
The ultimate problem is that people are making a couple of incorrect assumptions (albeit ‘reasonable’ ones)) and are beginning the search in the wrong spot.
I know you’ve all probably heard this kind of thing before, but trust me…I can back these things up and I think it will shift how everyone thinks about this verse/image from here on out. At some point, I’ll film a walkthrough, and show everyone…or perhaps meet a few of you down there and we can walk through it together. When I did it, it blew my mind. I felt like Preiss was with me. It was amazing.
I can clear up a couple of ‘mysteries’ on the image, as well.
I ask you to open your mind, here.
So, from 1981 to 1982, I was down in that area every Saturday morning…from 10AM to noon. i’ve been familiar with that park all of my life. In 1982, as much as right now, there was NO WAY Priess would’ve been allowed to dig in the park ‘proper’. As stringent as the conservancy is about that kind of thing, now…they’ve always been that way. I think the burial site is very close to the park…just beside it, in fact. The key is where you begin. This single and important aspect is what everyone has been mistaking, imo. But it involves knowing something about the area in 1982…something that anyone there at that time with any knowledge of where they were would’ve known.
The first few lines give you very strong clues where to begin the search.
The next few lines concretely confirm where you’re supposed to be.
Everyone cites the email exchange Preiss had with a searcher shortly before he was killed. In that email, an allusion was made to the ‘childrens zoo’.
There is a childrens zoo…always has been…but it isn’t a separate zoo unto itself. It’s a part of the big zoo. it’s INSIDE the big zoo…towards the back. A children’s zoo.
It’s always been that way.
Obviously, the casque could never have been buried in the childrens zoo. It wouldve been impossible. It was in a public zoo. But I think this exchange, along with the allusion to ‘982’ has confused some about where they should begin the search.
Let me add that when I say that I dont believe the conservancy would’ve allowed digging in the park, I mean the park PROPER i.e. the big block that includes the zoo, the Miller Outdoor Theater, the train, the reflecting pool, the Sam Houston statue, etc. There’s just no way digging there would’ve ever been allowed.
Now, where I believe the casque is hidden is also technically in an area that is tchnically Hermann Park…just not in the area where speculation has been popular.
What people overlook is that the copy of that email exchange is significantly edited (at least all of the copies of it that I have seen): we never are privy to WHERE the searcher wanted to dig (he was apparently keeping that a secret to himself) and Priess NEVER confirms anything about digging in or even around the childrens zoo or the entire Zoo itself.
Most of the conclusions that folks have come to about this particular casque…i think are wrong…specifically because they are beginning in the wrong area. This is due to a very common misunderstanding of the first few lines in the verse.
The first few lines give you very strong clues where to begin the search.
The next few lines concretely confirm if you are where you’re supposed to be.
I was down there again this afternoon, and the more I see things, the more illuminated it all becomes.
Before I continue, is anyone around to begin a discussion of this? I see that some times there are long spells where no one comes around.
Chime in, and I’ll lay out what I think. In any case, glad to be here! What a wonderful mystery….the kind of thing I live for.
– jermaine

I too am always open to new ideas. What I don’t understand though is all of the new folks coming on, saying they have ground breaking irrefutable new information but sit on it. These boards have become a place to share ideas and once and for all unearth these illusive casques. I can guarantee that if I came up with a theory that i KNEW was correct, I’d happily share it here so that someone…anyone, could dig up another.

I can’t wait to hear your theory! It would take pretty strong evidence to convince folks that “982” does not refer to the train engine, if that is part of your theory.

982 DEFINITELY references that train…but it’s the wording around where you are supposed to be in relation to it which I believe has been misinterpreted.

Dero72

Before I continue, is anyone around to begin a discussion of this?

Hi Jermaine – welcome to the forum. There are always folks here keeping an eye out for new ideas.

Haha thanks guys. I was quickly reminded that it was the flower not the tree.
Anyway, back to dero’s theory…

I’m not a horticulaturist, but Larkspur is certainly a tree. Just ask mr. google…
http://larkspurtrees.org/american-elm.html
wilhouse

Clicking too fast 🙂
That’s a list of trees in the city of Larkspur CA
http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/ornamental/flowers/larkspur/growing-annual-larkspur-plants.htm

Haha you’re right!

You are a rascal 421.

Isn’t today the zoo gets a face lift?

I helped give the zoo a face lift yesterday.
I, along with the zoo director and the chief of horticulture, bulldozed a 3 foot deep by 6 feet wide strip along the party house.
Obviously, we didn’t find anything or else you would have heard.
I’ll post photos asap.
have to work on the next step.
wilhouse

I live in houston. I would love to be of any help that I can. I’m doing research on this now. It seems that I quite late in joining this quest as I just learned of this book. I have a lot of research to do!!

desert connection relates to houston being a center of oil production (like middle east).

Not sure what to make of it, but I’ve stitched together an old YouTube video of what I believe was the old Asian section of the Children’s Zoo in 1985…
Https://imgur.com/a/3bmvB
Definitely can see why there was a desert theme in the painting if it was correct.

anus905

desert connection relates to houston being a center of oil production (like middle east).

Did you know…
Oil was first discovered and extracted in rural Pennsylvania — hardly a desert.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_oil_rush

I’m not sure why that is particularly significant lol.
I mean, everyone knows texas is oil country. texas oil barons are like Saudi oil barons. oil can spout from the ground like the water spout if drilled and not contained.

anus905

I’m not sure why that is particularly significant lol.
I mean, everyone knows texas is oil country. texas oil barons are like Saudi oil barons. oil can spout from the ground like the water spout if drilled and not contained.

When you solve sudoku, is it like “The 1 here looks like a 7, which rhymes with 11, which has TWO ONES!! Definitely solved, the grid is just inaccessible right now.”

drunknerds

When you solve sudoku, is it like “The 1 here looks like a 7, which rhymes with 11, which has TWO ONES!! Definitely solved, the grid is just inaccessible right now.”

No… obviously 11 means that the author is referencing 2. There should be a two there but the cops came and took my pen away.

(I realise most people think brainstorming this one is unreasonably obstinate, but just had a flip through it anyway.  ;))
Maybe this puzzle is playing tricks with scale.
Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two
Start with a full-size train, the 982, at the park.
Through the wood
No lion fears
In the sky the water veers
Main (mane) St., leading to the fountain.
Small of scale
Step across
Perspective should not be lost
This shape was identified as a miniature railway track at the zoo…
Considering the clues about scale and keeping perspective, and the full-size train at the start, we could continue down Hermann Drive to this green area with full-size columns, as opposed to the mini-columns in the zoo. (I initially thought this took you across full-size tracks, but it looks like these are too recent.)
In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night
“What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event – the falling of a leaf”
As the next lines are from Herman, maybe it’s taking us further down Hermann Drive…eg to the Garden Centre. (Rings show fountain, columns, garden centre.)
Looks like the garden centre dates from 1942:
http://www.houstonfederationgardenclubs.org/history.htm
The centre of four alike…?

you have to go back and look at the map I posted from 1982.  The miniature train tracks were all moved post 1982.  You can’t go by where they are now.
Also, the elf that was in the CZ is definately a dead ringer for the djinn.  I do like your thought process though.
ml

Looking back from treasure ground
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds
Circle round water girl statue by the back of the garden centre…
View from the cross back to the garden centre and the “water girl” statue with the spout…
Turn round to “look back from treasure ground”…the train whistle…?
Possible match with this feature (five dividing lines)…
Columns…mound…?

I was under the impression that herman park had basically been re-modeled, moved around / rebuilt.
how do you ascertain what was there in 1982 vs now?