maltedfalcon

I was under the impression that herman park had basically been re-modeled, moved around / rebuilt. How do you ascertain what was there in 1982 vs now?

I reckon all those landmarks were there in 1982. But if I found something promising, I’d ask…

I see, I was under the impression, parkinglots, fountains, landscaping (hills, paths, etc) had all been basically redesigned, removed and rebuilt.
I know the train moved to a totally different spot.

WhiteRabbit

(I realise most people think brainstorming this one is unreasonably obstinate.)

Well, you may be right. The big train is pretty definitely associated with Hermann though, and the small one I’m not so worried about. I suspect that Main St was still Main St. But like I say, if I actually found somewhere I thought was a good place to dig, I’d research the theory to see if it was historically viable. In the meantime I’m just kicking stuff around.
Disclaimer:

Yeah, it’s worth a look.  The good DrLoveDude now keeps a shovel in his trunk in case of emergencies!!
wilhouse

Remember, too, that the lampposts within the Houston Zoo are shaped like giant glass orbs on top of a thin pole.  They’re a pretty uncommon design, and the pole in the image looks like a stylized version of one.  There used to be a picture of them early in this thread.
Also keep in mind that Hermann Park was significantly remodeled over the last 30 years, so this feature on the map might not have actually existed then.  I don’t know either way, but it would be important to get confirmation.

bigmattyh

Also keep in mind that Hermann Park was significantly remodeled over the last 30 years, so this feature on the map might not have actually existed then.

Possibly not, but the ‘pole’ was there. The Miller theatre and the golf club and the garden centre were there. The fishbone is only a walk away – it has to be worth a look.

WhiteRabbit

This shows the positions of the ‘pole’, the Miller Centre post, and the curve beside the golf course where the fishbone is.

As much as I am convinced with wilhouse’s theory…this pic intrigues me.  Not with “where” the pole is but simply how the whole overhead layout looks like the pole with the orb on top.  Then to the right of that is the curved section (not necessarily the golf course) that looks like the sand dune in the I.  Now if there were only some representation of a camel between the two….

There is more than one skull in the picture…not sure if it means anything at all, but I thought I’d post them anyway

JoshCornell

oh, all the people who have no idea whats going on? so what?

I don’t know which is worse. Either you just don’t get it or you are the greatest troll around. Be humble.

how many sides does the taipei friendship pavilion have…is it 8???
bet it is. preiss blows my mind every single day, more and more…

Josh, do you know how many sides the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade has? That’s right my Canadian friend, …..one. Just like the globe column in Image 8.

Don’t worry goatlady….I think we are all doomed at the moment.
Welcome to the hunt!  Is this the 1st time on these boards or have you been trying to catch up with the gazillion posts while awaiting your book?

hi goatlady!  don’t count on the book helping, lol.  everyone says all you need is the image and the verses, which are all here if you need them (somewhere on this board)
of course i am still trying to find connections between the fair folks and the treasures.
lots of times i have thought, well maybe it’s not houston (for example), but somehow i always come back to the places or cities others have found long time ago, ( not the treasures, just the locations).
but, ya never know, we could be totally wrong.  good luck!

Unknown

Unknown:
I was working on another mystery and have finished it, “The Whistle Pig”.

Finished, as in… FOUND THE KEY?? Wow! I want to hear more.

Hello, F_B, finished as in I went as far as I could without getting to the key. I want to stand in front of a mirror and slap myself silly. I have written Millender but haven’t recieved a reply. I understand where to look but the last step eludes me. So I will get back to it someday. Futher talk about the book might be better suited to the Whistle Pig topic. I know from the other board that you plan “to reign me in”, and probably don’t want me to post anything. I have stayed away from there. These people seem real nice, although there are some of the same people I just plan on going with what others are researching and adding my thoughts along the way. I don’t have any concrete ideas about The Secret at all. My book won’t be here until next week. I hope you aren’t going to mind, have a good day, goatlady

Hi Fox. Are you sure there are only a gazillon? It felt like more. This is my first post here, but I have been trying to catch up for awhile. I was working on another mystery and have finished it, “The Whistle Pig”. So now I wanted to delve into another mind bender. What was I thinking! At one time I think it was you that thought you saw An Az connection or did I get the name wrong? At any rate I think I will just have to try harder to see Houston. My eyes aren’t as good as they used to be so I am hoping the book will be a big help!

This is interesting. Pente was an early 80’s boardgame. It was made of two colors of glass tokens and a playing mat/board. This game came also came packaged in a cool cardboard roll tube. My interest in this is that I wonder if Byron wanted us to pickup on this game as a hint for one or two possible thought associations:
Pente = Pentagon = a literal fortress, shaped like a five sided polygon, or a hint for a star
Tube = a telescope = a tool used for star gazing
Note the coincidental shape of the odd leaf/ghost shapes and the patterns on the Pente box.

I remember Pente. I used to play it in high school on my dad’s Go board. I don’t think it has anything to do with The Secret, though.

forest_blight

I remember Pente. I used to play it in high school on my dad’s Go board. I don’t think it has anything to do with The Secret, though.

Are you seeing the similarity of the three pronged shape?
Check this ebay link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2014024175 … ps&lpid=82
You’ll see the game tube that I suspect is a hint for thinking about telescopes.

I’m not seeing it, e. The shapes you mention are larkspurs, the birth flower for this image.

forest_blight

I’m not seeing it, e. The shapes you mention are larkspurs, the birth flower for this image.

I hadn’t thought about the larkspur as a birthflower connection.
Here’s a better side by side, don’t you find this pattern similar to the larkspur?

Well, we know for sure that the shapes are larkspurs, given what we know about the themes built into The Secret.
For the same shape to pull double-duty as an obscure hint to Pente would be asking too much, I think. But that’s just my opinion.

I think this is a big five with a smaller 2 superscripted to say “five squared” which is twenty-five. I think this is our pacing clue. It’s on this column base, because we begin at the Atropos Key and pace towards the large light tower at the base of the hill. This action maintains perspective on the two object points behind us, since they don’t move either way right or left while we count off paces. The spot at roughly twenty-five paces is fine tuned by locating the tip of Miller Outdoor Theater in the exact center of the diamond of Atropos. This is seen at ground level…by looking through a Pente roll tube.

Ok. I can appreciate that input. I hope it didnt look like I was saying it didnt look like larkspur. I just made the association that the Pente (1977-) game fit a number of characteristics that meet a pattern and are consistent with timeline pre 1981. Double duty isnt the best argument against any particular idea. I was of course looking for quintuple duty here, so that might be a red flag.

I should have prefaced my latest agenda as being more involved with the cultural connection and the constraint or hints that may be present in the LotJ for each jewel. My assertion is that the Ruby of Araby involves a major connection to the sky. I’ve recognized a connection between Arabian astronomy, Arabian star names in the Constellation Ursa Major and a couple cross cultural connections which will take some more explaining. Atropos is unmoveable, unturning by the Greek language definition. Polaris may also fit that description in literal observation and the analogy to a fortress, which is an unmoving or unyielding stronghold and those who are unwelcomed must move around since they cant pass through. I made the claim before that the Keepers Dubhe and Merak are pointers to Polaris. I think this sky based idea is the method used to link two points in search of the casque.

Let me throw this out there for a little more tree fun.
Has anyone noticed the flipped over 21 at the top left of Image 8? Someone once mentioned the thought that this was a breast cancer ribbon. The breast cancer ribbons started some time in the 90s. I see this as a number 21 which represents San Jacinto Day which is celebrated on April 21st.

I may have come through on this one.  To explain, some things that bothered me a lot in terms of a map overlay is 1) the previous two solves didn’t really use the method and 2) the star and the red stone in the image didn’t seem to be good indicators of real world markers (i.e. it required forcing to make any sense).  The Golden Spiral idea seems to really fit this image but the choice of where to place this 1.0000:1.1618 ratio rectangle seemed arbitrary.  Going with the entire border is sufficient for this exercise, but it is also possible that the star and red stone are line intersecting points, thus I easily placed the rectangle in a non-arbitrary way to meet this condition and it seems to indicate a point of interest marked by the red dot.  Some minor eyeballing adjustments were needed to resize the aerial, but the proportions look pretty close, which is all that’s needed for a person to pinpoint a smallish area for a closer inspection of the grounds for any kind of further indicator.  Looking for a “Whistle” clue or a “Spout” seems like a good place to start.

Ok, let me ask this….has anyone ever noticed how the shadow of the ruby in the Image is going NE and the shadows of the columns are basically going East? Why wouldn’t that shadow have the same directional cast?

I’m with Wilhouse on this one.  Find another 982 and I may agree but before then….this V seems quite obvious to lead us to Houston.  The 982 & the quote from Hermann seem to be much more than coincidentaly pointing to Hermann Park in Houston.
Keep digging Wilhouse, you will find that casque….eventually  ::)

I know… but saying Indjiana Djones out loud makes me laugh.

Indjiana Djones?

erexere

Indjiana Djones?

Thanks for my first really hard laugh of the day, E!

Honestly I don’t seriously believe this, but I’m continuing to find it a convenient visual…

I am slowly working on a collection of very high-res scans of the paintings, and as soon as I have it completed, I will find a place to offer it for download for everyone. But I will make a point that the next one I do is 8 so you can all get a clear look.  🙂

erexere, you’re info on Atropos key is brilliant.
I kept trying to find Atrpos key in the leaves and one area kept me curious was the two leaves in front of the Rhino column. I don’t know if anyone posted this before but after seeing your post from 2012 it hit me that those two leaves represent Atropos. The leaves come together to form the diamond shape in the head. That would represent Atrpos Key being in front of Miller Outdoor Theatre (Rhino).

I wasn’t aware of the leaves being a visual composite, though the spikey head of Atropos already looks linens partial fit to the leaf shapes in general.
The big one for me is holding a mirror at a 45 degree and seeing how closely you can bring up a 40-50% match of the entire statue.
Also, understanding that the Melville book quote draws us to Atropos (one of the Three Weird Ones) is probably one one the better confirmers. Sometimes it’s difficult to see the difference between a loose interpretation and partially obscured visual evidence. It’s very challenging.

For those that actually plan on digging for the casque, remember, digging in a texas state park such as Hermann Park is forbidden without a permit, and punishable by jail or fine.
I got away with it because the Zoo is not a state park.
wilhouse

WR shared this grab from the temple of Apollo at Delphi earlier and it simply fit better than anything else as an inspiration for the columns.
Wilhouses CZ overlay was pretty good, but not as good as this.  If thongs matched a lot more, then this wouldnt be an issue.  Putting my BSG idea in overdrive because Apollo was Starbucks flight buddy just made sense.  Of course my whole theory builds to nothing except to say the rear view of a blimp is like the cruciform star as the three winged map shape of the Huston Loop is like the rear view of a BSG Viper.  It confounds all reason to consider this, I know, but like a creature that cant be killed or caught, it keeps rising from the depths.  Its a completely silly theory…as is the Hum Bach sonata idea that would require the honey lipped skills of Edward Bear himself to persuade us to think Preiss wanted us to come to that conclusion.
My best idea for the casque to be in the Fannin split offers us a terribly wicked pun since it is in the middle of two roads…why did Apollo cross the road?  Could BP seriously have pulled that kind of word play on us?  Pollo = chicken.  Maybe it crossed the road for some grains of Rice or Sand…
Im hoping i can get a foshizzle fo Fannin from Wilhouse.  Do we need a permit for that road median?

I feel it’s best to identify the curved line at the base of the painting as an indication of the stone being stitched together. I don’t believe it in any way represents a train track, even though it’s customary to draw train tracks on a map in such a way. The question that needs to be pursued is why is the stone being stitched together? Stone is neither fabric, nor is it a living thing.

MrBackstop

That gave me the impression of the old stage with performers in a play or something.
I do not see any numbers but instead graphic images of a couple people on stage. Perhaps performing that free musicals”Bells of the Night”.
I never really looked at it more closely than that.

Zoom in on that base of the column. Anyone know what the original length of the mini train track was?

This image clearly shows damage to a couple posts, the one directly at us and the one two over to the right. I’m curious if anyone has noticed damage similar to the column in the Image? It could narrow down the dig spot over in the landscaping.

erexere

I feel it’s best to identify the curved line at the base of the painting as an indication of the stone being stitched together. I don’t believe it in any way represents a train track, even though it’s customary to draw train tracks on a map in such a way. The question that needs to be pursued is why is the stone being stitched together? Stone is neither fabric, nor is it a living thing.

That’s an interesting idea. Perhaps we can come up with some thoughts on stitches instead of tracks. Hmmmm….

in that image of hermann park above, that’s recent. you need to use the old ones I posted.
wilhouse

any solution that basically uses the image to find the spot, is a bit of a reach for me.
In the found ones the verse leads you to the casque
the image to the general area.
I dont see why this one would be different.

wilhouse

Well, if you go south through the zoo you go right by the great cats area. You have no fear because they are in a moat

I’m not relying on the image, I’m exploring the possibility of using clues like:
Through the wood no lion fears
In the sky the water veers
…to refer to a fountain by Wood. You don’t agree, that’s fine, whatever. We’re all just exploring different approaches.
I don’t really see how this line fits well with either the big cats or the lion drinking fountain.
(I don’t think we should assume that, just because the verse mentions the 982, there’s a simple trail from there, line by line, one landmark to the next. The other verses don’t work that way. You make a big leap from a church to the north of the park down to the train – why shouldn’t I jump from the train to the fountain? These puzzles don’t all proceed in a straight line; they spin a web across a network of locations.)

MF, that was exactly what I was getting at.
wilhouse

Take
your task…what we
take
…wonder if there’s anything in that.

Unknown

Unknown:
Considering Chicago and the trick with “central too”, I’ve been wondering if the location might be between two things, rather than in the middle of four. Eg, in the middle of:

If I call (I may be mistaken), “central” was a reference to the train line that runs / ran right next to the casque site. All you needed to find the spot was “The end of ten by thirteen.”

Oh, is that right…? I always had the impression that “fence and fixture central too” meant the spot between this fencepost and wall fixture…think I read it somewhere…
I’ve no idea exactly where it really was though. Considering the reliance on the two solved puzzles it’s surprising they’re not better documented.

Id like to know if there was any agreement between the size of the fixture in the image and where a person would stand to dig while looking at the fixture.

Pretty sure the “fixture” was not in the image. The fence was, though. Perhaps not the fence-post in that photo, however — there’s one a little down the line that has the hoop over it, just like in the painting. It’s a guard of sorts, to keep small animals and adventurous children from falling to their deaths on the service road below. It is possible that the fence-post in that photo had one back in 1981.

Im thinking of the larger post in the center of the two fence ends was the fixture.  What fixture are you referring too?

In no sense would the fence post be termed a “fixture.” The near-consensus is that the green thingy affixed to the wall was the “fixture.”

if you count from the wall to the fence post. there are 3 fence sections
If you draw a line from the center of the center one perpendicular to the fence, parallel to the wall.
this would be the line the 13 trees would be on.
If you drew a line from the fixture perpendicular to the wall and parallel to the fence line.
this would be the line the 10 trees would be on.
Where these to lines cross, just to the right of the tree, in the photo.
that is where the casque was buried.
at one point the fence post in the image had a loop over it like the other ones along the fence, if you examine the fence in person you can see where it was attached.

I think this looks pretty good. Like the columns in Cleveland good.

erexere

I think this looks pretty good. Like the columns in Cleveland good.

Could be.

Unknown

Unknown:
Like the columns in Cleveland good.

No.

More possible evidence of obelisk connection:
Underneath the camel column there’s a remnant of broken up obelisk.
Above it also seems to be some arabic writing. Multi-lingo members please chime in.
Also in the large diamond shaped area under the obelisk seems to be more arabic writing, maybe “Allah”? “G” in freemasonry.

Choice

.
Above it also seems to be some arabic writing. Multi-lingo members please chime in.
Also in the large diamond shape area under the obelisk seems to be more arabic writing, maybe “Allah”? “G” in freemasonry.

It’s been a while, but I once spent a couple months studying Arabic full time. That particular zoom-in doesn’t look like any form of Arabic writing, at least not in my own personal opinion.
As far as “God/Allah”, this is the most commonly-seen script… الله …but I have to come out and say it, I haven’t seen anything so far that would make me suspect there’s any kind of link between “The Secret” and Freemasonry.

Here’s the outline in green.

A few points:
• The so called Jinn is actually a dust devil. On the left side of it you can see skull and trident in the whirling dust.
• Similar to a waterspout, a dust devil could be referred to as a land-spout.
• Stance or posture of the dust devil is similar to the Sam Houston statue (not the one on the monument)
• Small of scale is children’s zoo
• Step across means go across the lake
• That puts you in the obelisk area
• Look back from it you’d be looking at the spout which is Sam Houston’s monument
• Camel has no blue outline and the column (obelisk) has no shadow.
• Tower falls gently, you can see the remnant of fallen obelisk next to camel tower
• As above, so below. As someone mentioned, jewel in the image is directly below camel’s nose
So cask may be next to obelisk.

Choice

Here’s the outline in green.

Ah, now I see it, thanks. Apologies, my copy of the book doesn’t have the bright green squiggles.

Correction: Spirit of Confederacy statue not Sam Houston.
Speaking of spirit, ghost looking thing present in the dust.

forest_blight

If The Secret turns out to have anything whatsoever to do with Battlestar Galactica, I’ll eat my hat. And malt’s and wilhouse’s.

BSG is a story about migration isn’t it?

Here’s a picture of that example I made earlier where there’s a building that folks locally refer to as the “Star Wars” building.  What it looks like is a Jawa Sandcrawler.

In the early 1980s BSG was an ongoing concern,
basing any part of his book on a copyrighted television show would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Don’t be so silly.  The verse saying “three winged and slight” in no way infringes on copyright.  There’s some unusual cases like if he were to use the word “three-peat”, Pat Riley might have done things differently.

Just because you’ve identified something that’s three-winged and slight, doesn’t mean that it’s the same three-winged and slight thing that BP had in mind.
So say we all.

erexere

Don’t be so silly.  The verse saying “three winged and slight” in no way infringes on copyright.  There’s some unusual cases like if he were to use the word “three-peat”, Pat Riley might have done things differently.

Actually any concepts derived or based upon another copyrighted work would infringe.
a publisher would not even come close

bigmattyh

Just because you’ve identified something that’s three-winged and slight, doesn’t mean that it’s the same three-winged and slight thing that BP had in mind.
So say we all.

It’s not a completely random find.  The Sam Houston Monument area has a three-winged characteristic.  Try looking at a map.  If it was a flower it would have three petals.  The verse’s connection to Melville is not random.  A major character in Moby Dick is named Starbuck.  The juxtaposition of that name and that shape easily links to an image in a popular TV show.  Everyone knew Lorne Greene from Bonanza and Face from the A-Team!  To top it off I’ve found several “snake” motif items, a head on a long body = columns, a staggered pattern in the large section of bricks is exactly the same scheme snake scales have, trains are like snakes with an engine and a long length of cars behind them, and it just so happens the name of the three winged BSG ship is a VIPER.  The head in the lion’s jaws motif fits the funky design of the helmet.  “No Lion Fears” is nicely associated with not being afraid to put your head in the water fountain lion’s mouth.
Maybe we all don’t understand the difference between something preponderantly interconnected and something randomly applied based on just one trivial connection.

maltedfalcon

Actually any concepts derived or based upon another copyrighted work would infringe.
a publisher would not even come close

Explain how he has done that?  He took some photos and wrote some verse.  Describing the Houston memorial as three winged and slight is in no way a copyright infringement.  The words “No lion fears” is hardly a case in court.
BP worked in TV as well.  Perhaps he knew Glen Larson in some capacity.  For all we know they were buddies who talked about Asimov over beers.
I found this interesting,
http://www.lurexlounge.com/bsg/publicat04.php
and
http://www.faqs.org/copyright/battlesta … vity-book/
So, BP’s company did gravitate to BSG eventually…  What do you say FB, feel like an appetizer?

I’ve no doubt BP/JP intended the genie to remind us of fountains, but I reckon they were thinking of steam trains as well.
Could just be the 982, but I’d be interested to know if any trains on the miniature railway also had steam and/or whistles.

Unknown

Unknown:
What do you say FB, feel like an appetizer?

I’ll be needing that hat now, malt.

METRO only became a rail line in the last 10 years.  Before that, it was all buses.

forest_blight

And let’s not forget that BP actually confirmed that the Houston CZ is the proper location to dig. Besides actually unearthing a casque, that’s about as certain as you can get.

Or was he only confirming that details to finding the casque include features inside the CZ?  Thats a lot to confirm in itself.
You’ll come around when its realized that the term for a group of giraffe is a “tower”.  I think this detail is significant to finding a path.  The may or not be a path at all, but something tells me that although the verse has a tiny bit of nonlinearity, it still supports a roughly linear snaking journey.
The major snake theme is more prominent in my view now that i see that the staggered brick pattern is the same as a snake’s scales even though scales aren’t rectangular.
The cyclone of the Genie seen as the central torrent of the fountain and also as a “Cylon” is possibly ntended as well.
All this on top of a Melville reference astounds me.
Also, a group of camels is called a “caravan, train, or flock”.

Okay, nix lightrail.
WhiteRabbit, excuse me but im going to dismiss the dolphin idea, however the Apollo idea looks really really good!  What was Starbucks main co-star’s name from 1978’s BSG?  Apollo.  I think its looking strong that the Three Winged and Slight is the shape of the outer sections of the Sam Houston statue area and the line is describing the the long skinny “slight” vipers of BSG.  A viper is a type of snake.  A snake is a head on a long skinny body.  A train is like a snake.  The rhino head on the column is like a snake.  Snakes and sand go together well enough.  Im not trying to steer away from the Melville at all, this is just a bonus stream of analogy.
Wilhouse, was there a snake area in the zoo as well?  If so, I bet it was adjacent to the giraffe area.
_______
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright,
In the forests of the night:
What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
-William Blake

erexere

Or was he only confirming that details to finding the casque include features inside the CZ?
Also, a group of camels is called a “caravan, train, or flock”.

That’s a bending over backwards “obtusification” of a pretty straight forward comment. – he was commenting on digging not clues. and he  said digging in the CZ would be a good idea. It would not be a good idea if he was just commenting on clues.
Btw the the collective noun for camels is just flock not caravan or train.
any more than the collective noun for ships is convoy.  its not it’s fleet.
Caravan or train, is a descriptive noun for a method of travel that may or may not involve camels.

I drew from this source for the collective name for the camel group:
http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Pointles … roups.html
I’m waiting to hear back from the creator of the list to learn what they used as their source before I take one persons dismissal of it’s correctness.
It isn’t a waste of time to dig “there” doesn’t definitively imply that it IS there.  Think about it.  Wilhouse sent a photo and had a number of exchanges with BP.  If he was seriously on the right track, there would be no question and BP would’ve sent a photo or gave specific confirmation.  The real threat of loss to the casque from construction would’ve been resolved right away if so.  I don’t think it’s a waste of time to discover that something is WRONG.  It helps us reevaluate our approach.  Wilhouse was close, very close.  He had the right park, he had the 982, the aqua tunnel and the generally strong sense that the CZ was a huge clue leading to the casque.  BP had his own personal guidelines about what would be required for him to confirm a location.  He would guarantee it if that person was very close.  He did not make any guarantees whatsoever for this particular site INSIDE the children’s zoo.  Whether “THERE” meant INSIDE the CZ or just HERMANN PARK isn’t clear either.  Wilhouse could’ve submitted a picture from anywhere else in the park and received the same response given that it wasn’t on the “split” section of Fannin.  IF Wilhouse came within 20 feet, I bet BP would’ve confirmed the exact spot.

It’s highly appropriate that BP quoted The Ambiguities. This book throws them like confetti, sowing confusion and argument. People seize one interpretation and reject all others. Gh, cast in copper, green towers, North of Xenophon, Lane Two Twenty Two…
The aqua tunnel is one of several references BP probably had in mind, others including fountains, jets of steam, Moby Dick and aerial photographs. It’s only when the jigsaw fits together that you know which ones to keep.

It’s not obtuse at all to say the CZ isn’t a waste of time if it is PART of the solution.  Digging is often used in alternative fashion.  Dig for clues doesn’t mean you have to use a shovel or have to move any dirt…
I’m still waiting for my book, ordered it last week.  Only 3 bucks, I hope it’s in decent condition.
I’ve put some work into all the images now.  Not until these last few did I have a serious shock of awe at how amazing BP was in his efforts.  This Battlestar Galactica connection takes the cake.  He uses Classics, early American literature and history, applies a stealthy science fiction or mythological element, and challenges our eyes and minds in ways that keep the adrenaline moving.
I feel like i should have recognized the BSG helmet and viper connection sooner.  Its such a strange layer to work with.  Its basically having to look at an ordinary object or building and say “hey, that looks like the Jawa Transport in Star Wars (when looking at the building at 1400 Executive parkway in Eugene, Oregon)”.  See if you dont agree.

erexere

Wilhouse could’ve submitted a picture from anywhere else in the park and received the same response given that it wasn’t on the “split” section of Fannin.  IF Wilhouse came within 20 feet, I bet BP would’ve confirmed the exact spot.

How could you possibly know that – pure conjecture on your part, and by that time I think, BP had already said, you would need a casque not just a picture of the area.
You are also ignoring the previous communications Wilhouse had with BP.

erexere

I drew from this source for the collective name for the camel group:
http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Pointles … roups.html
I’m waiting to hear back from the creator of the list to learn what they used as their source before I take one persons dismissal of it’s correctness.

No problem as you can see from the page, a lot of his sources are suggestions by readers.
I  just ran to the  Oxford Dictionary of the English Language, it is the definitive source for etymological questions
it is at OED.com but I think you have to subscribe. otherwise most big libraries have it.- I work at a newspaper publisher so we have it.

Unknown

Unknown:
Train comes from the San Diego Zoo (
http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/ … _list.html
). Though, they give no citations.
Caravan less related to camels and more to nomadic peoples usage of the camel in their caravans. I don’t think wild camels would ever be called a “caravan”.
Hope this helps!

Im not ignoring that Wilhouse had a number of communications with BP.  He said he did and I’m not contesting the claim.  Wilhouse said those specific delineated words were the best he could get from BP.  I looked more carefully at the text and I still cant see where BP is quoted saying “the casque is in the CZ”.  Talking about something and confirming something are different processes of communication.   Given the option to be specific, BP was still vague, why?  Mine or anyone elses conjectures to answer that should be welcome.
In any case, I looked for a specifc confirmation to the CZ being the spot for the the casque itself.  It seems very reasonable to say that clues are in and around the CZ as well as those clues behaving ambiguously.  Any place with trees could be called a forest.  Even asphalt could be called a forest according to John Huston.  Many spouts and fountains exist around Hermann Park.  Any combination of these interpretations can be considered.  Does the BSG idea deserve to be ignored or considered?  I’ve supplied some reasonable visuals for your consideration.  I’m shocked at the strength of their similarity.
The contents of the response to the animal groups list:
I went ahead and submitted the question to the SD Zoo.  Maybe they’ll provide a source.  Maybe not, no big deal.  I just think it’s neat that on some level the camel and the 982 along with the minitrain could have some thematic connection.  Maybe an interesting form of rebus, like camel + rhino = train crash.

maltedfalcon

How could you possibly know that – pure conjecture on your part, and by that time I think, BP had already said, you would need a casque not just a picture of the area.
You are also ignoring the previous communications Wilhouse had with BP.

Wilhouse referenced the original article for the Chicago casque that BP sent a picture of the spot to confirm.  You’re right that it’s just conjecture that he might be compelled to do so again.  If his attitude moved away from giving assistance, then again it’s conjecture that he might feel compelled to change his attitude again and do again what he did in Chicago.  *shrug*  I’m just saying I bet he’d have done so if supplied with enough proof and logic to the casque site.

wilhouse

[snip]
He told me once that I had the wrong location, when I was out by the fountains near the museum.  He told me several times that he couldn’t tell me any more, just to later tell me I was close.
His message that it would not be a waste of time to dig there was, in my humble opinion, as close as he would come to telling me I was right.  I say this because he had told me when I was wrong before.
I still think it’s there, but our opportunity to get it is small.
wilhouse

BP would tell him if he was “close”.
Instead of saying, “you are close, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever”, he said “it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever.”  Either way, it’s difficult to subscribe to a view that confirms it’s INSIDE of the Zoo when it seems most assuredly somewhere INSIDE the Park.  The CZ is just one area within Hermann Park.

on the other hand.
we are just making guesses based on what we think we know of conversations and correspondence between two other people.
Have you seen the actual picture? I have not. do you know the complete content of the conversation that preceded the statement.
I do not. This is why hearsay isnt allowed in a court.
So I think in this case I will yield to someone with a far better grasp of what they were discussing. Wilhouse.
and on top of that From what I have seen Wilhous’e solution hasn’t been improved on yet.

If The Secret turns out to have anything whatsoever to do with Battlestar Galactica, I’ll eat my hat. And malt’s and wilhouse’s.

Several people have talked about the 4 small fountains that surround the obelisk. Here is a picture from 1980 that shows the reflection pool and obelisk with NO small fountains…just grass and bushes.

I don’t personally recall having seen this before:
http://offcite.org/wp-content/uploads/s … _Cite3.pdf
It’s a 1983 article about Hermann Park. Bottom image in the pdf is a detailed site plans for some intended 1983 upgrades at Hermann Park. A couple of 1982/83 aerials as well. Apologies if this has already made the rounds.

Herman: My Park Revelation
A bit of sad news, at least for me. I was attempting to dig on my final dig spot for Herman park but my plans fell through.
I had posted before that my final dig spot was clear to me but was waiting to dig to reveal it. I also wanted to get photos of the area to
back up my claim before I even asked to dig. Well right before I go to the archives to look for photos I stop by the park to just to see it.
To my disappointment the dig spot and the area around it is under heavy construction.
This was my final dig spot (circle on the shadow). It was between 4 original trees that were there in the 80s. The other trees directly north were not there in the 80s and you can clearly see the age difference on google maps.
My interpretation was that they were the “four alike”. The entire area is gone, the Houston Garden Center, the botanical gardens, the fountain that looked like the fairy in the image…all gone.
I even got a little desperate and asked some men at the site to dig but they looked at me like I was crazy.
To me that was where the Houston treasure was/is.
The star was to me that which “falls gently in December night”
The spout I posted before was lined up to that spot and the light pole that hangs above it was the crack in the image sand stone.
Now I could be wrong, Ill still look for those photos to back me up but with the construction tearing everything up, it probably wont ever be recoverable.
I also posted i this album
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98431844@N08/
some photos of the Miller Theater. The sandstone area reminded me of the “rectangular plot” from Cleveland, old but contained and anything that might have been buried there would most likely be still there. (for how long, I can’t say but they are doing much renovation). One tree seemed very old and thick.
So anyways there you have it, my Houston hunt wrapped up. I will now focus on Charleston, Boston and maybe Roanoke.

Guardian

The column has at least 3 meanings:
1) the MOT columns
2) The reflecting pool, etc.
3) The shape of the lamps across much of Houston at the time, still found in HP
The multiple meanings in this puzzle are why some people are confused. Different meanings lead to different parks, but everything with different meanings has at least one at MOT. That’s what convinces me it’s in that section of the park.

Thanks Guardian, I like those thoughts to tie to the column. The way I line up the visual clues in the image with the lines in the verse….Small of scale….Step across…has me in block with the colonnade. The Pavillion area is certainly an interesting possibility.

maltedfalcon

its cause hes telling you to take the train, in order to discern the location. so when you are travelling through the african shaped woods towards the obelisk, between the spout and auditorium, the spout would come into view through the trees. if you look at old location of track, youd step over the southern bend (represented in the painting) in the african shaped woods, and then use the old location of the obelisk to give you a more general location (X) around which the marking trees would have once been located.

Hi all, I’m new to this hunt (just saw it yesterday).  I’m catching up on all of the posts.  I’ll contribute what I can.  Anyway, on to my thoughts about picture 8, and sorry if they’re not new…
At the moment, I only have the online images to study, so if I’m way off, it’s not my fault!
If you look at the big orb, and go up and to the right (1:30-ish on a clock, NE on a compass) there’s a leaf that looks a lot like a space shuttle, which works with Houston.
I think on pg.3 of this thread, neVar posted about the angles of shadows and perspectives and how the shadow of the djinn/waterspout-guy didn’t seem to match the shadows of the pillars.   The guy’s shadow is really interesting – it looks kinda like a Bowie knife, or maybe a train whistle.  Along the bottom edge of that shadow, a little left of center, there’s a notch.  There’s an arc of shadow that ends in that notch.  At first glance, that arc might look like a seam between stones, but I don’t think it is.  Perhaps this arc is the steam coming out of a train whistle?  Or perhaps it’s water coming out of a fountain?
At the bottom of the camel’s pillar, the pile or arrangement of rocks looks kind of like a ramp.
That’s it for now.  I hope to contribute more in the near future.
– Jambone

Jambone, welcome aboard. Good to have you here.
Yes, I believe you are right, the djinn’s shadow does look a bit like a whistle.
The leaf you refer to has been a source of question for me too.  If you look on my last link post, you’ll see a tree in the zoo that has leaves that look just like that.
wilhouse

Hi all.  I’m new here… saw Eggberts article in the newspaper and took an interest in this hunt.  I’ve spent the last day and a half basically reading every post on all the threads Image and Verse threads.
Willhouse, you said that there are 4 poles with the orbs on top that can be dug around.  If you look at the picture, the ruby is right below the column with the orb.  Maybe this is a clue that the casque is indeed below one of the poles.  To me, the ruby looks too random just to be sitting on the ground right there.  It has to be some sort of clue…
Nick

Okay, thanks….couple interesting thoughts on the !
What are your thoughts concerning the red dot on the stones in between the smoke/spout and MOT ? To me this appears to be an actual indication of the casque’s location.

remember to consider though
in 1982 the “Long Lake” didnt look much like it does now.

Oh yeah. It looked all ragged and naturalesque back then didnt it? Perhaps another trick of time and coincidence that it looks like such a good fit now. The case with many of my past theories, I have to act not so surprised when they turn out to be wrong.

gManTexas

In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight

I’ll roll the dice and say you may need to take your four down to two.
I
n the center of four alike
S
mall, split,
T
hree winged and slight
W
hat we take to be
O
ur strongest tower of delight

GoldenMartyr

I’ll roll the dice and say you may need to take your four down to two.
I
n the center of four alike
S
mall, split,
T
hree winged and slight
W
hat we take to be
O
ur strongest tower of delight

I hadn’t noticed that before. If it is intentional, I would say it has a different significance.

IS TWO looks real. 2 feet away, or 2 paces away from something?

erexere

IS TWO looks real. 2 feet away, or 2 paces away from something?

Or there are two of something inside the 4 of something. This would give you a bisecting line (potentially) to nail down the dig spot.

Not sure of it’s significance and the exact method of applying it to the puzzle. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the 4 becomes 2, although it could be possible. There are several potential options. I was simply pointing out that it feels quite relevant and riddlish given the four alike text.

Wilhouse-
JUst giving you all available information.
I did not mean to suggest that the site was outside
the zoo boundaries, but close enough to the
train station in relation to the other landmarks.
You own this solve, no one knows the area better,
we all want to make this next dig your last.
*somewhere to dig*

To tie the verse in with the image,
the bottom center cross hatch pattern
is the exact same pattern used to denote
the children’s train path in the park.
The curved shape denotes that the jewel is
closest to the following station in the
park (map item 15)
“A whistle sounds”
This would put the burial site in a different spot
than the children’s zoo.
http://www.hermannpark.org/directions.html
Blow up the map and find # 15 in B-2.
See the lengend for the train.

Tron, while I completely agree that one could make the position you have, there are a couple of points to note:
– #15 is the main train station.  not one other confirmer from the image is out there. also, it would be difficult to dig there, as that is a completely open, public area.  however, it is not impossible.  where one would dig is beyone me.
– the train station has been completely overhauled. if it was there, it might not be any more.
– the steps to the auditorium look just like train tracks when viewed from the angle of the image.
wilhouse

which part wilhouse?
the 1st part of the post basically means that I think only 1 of the pillars will be exact near the casque.  I just dont see the architects using such different styles of pillars if they are in close proximity of each other.  This is why I think the pillar(S) {plural} simply represent a group of pillars possibly near the casque and only 1 of them will be exact….ie..the pillars around the fountain not being exact but a representation of the pillars.  Then we have to find an exact pillar near the Houston casque.
the part of my post about the zoo ties in with this.  If you drew up the plans for a zoo or were hired to decorate the grounds with pillars for each of the exhibits, you would make them the same style.

Thats true, so far I have seen nothing that fits better than what Wilhouse came up with.

Help.
Has the roof pattern of the Miller Outdoor Theater been altered significantly since 1980?  While looking for architectural similarities between the metal beams and those used in railroad construction I just noticed it has what looks like a spider web pattern.
For some reason I keep thinking of Atropos and a spider-web as something that go together.  Not sure why.

Still sticking with wilhouse on this one. He has pretty much nailed down all that can be nailed down.

erexere

Help.
Has the roof pattern of the Miller Outdoor Theater been altered significantly since 1980?  While looking for architectural similarities between the metal beams and those used in railroad construction I just noticed it has what looks like a spider web pattern.
For some reason I keep thinking of Atropos and a spider-web as something that go together.  Not sure why.

There was extensive work done to the roof. I cannot say for certain but the probability looks good that it was at least altered in some way.
I see you found your way to SomethingAwful
They are very spirited over there. I like it.

Thanks.  Yes, I’m reborn like a cancerous troll…only I’m blue and streetwise.
The roof sure looks like rails of traintrack were used on it.

I have used a metal detector
I area I scanned light up like christmas everywhere
it is a bit wooded so the area is covered in litter. also as summer comes so does the undergrowth and it is really hard to move around in most areas.

Unknown

Unknown:
However you are wrong since currently my primary search is in Texas and I will fly out there shortly.

The best of luck in your search in Texas. All 268,597 square miles* of it.
Interesting Texas Factoid: There is enough land in Texas to give every man, woman, and child living in the United States about 1/2 an acre. So if you can get everyone to go to Texas with you Matt, and they each probe their respective 1/2 acre every four inches, and at a rate of one hole per second, it will only take a littel over 8 days to probe the entire state.

Euhirudinea

The best of luck in your search in Texas. All 268,597 square miles* of it.
Interesting Texas Factoid: There is enough land in Texas to give every man, woman, and child living in the United States about 1/2 an acre. So if you can get everyone to go to Texas with you Matt, and they each probe their respective 1/2 acre every four inches, and at a rate of one hole per second, it will only take a littel over 8 days to probe the entire state.

With Matt’s luck he’ll probably stick a probe in the ground and strike oil

Unknown

Unknown:
stick a probe in the ground and strike oil

“Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.” And back to Californy he will go…

Euhirudinea

“Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.” And back to Californy he will go…

Oil – maybe that is what that djinn guy coming out of the ground in the image is supposed to represent?

Euhirudinea

The best of luck in your search in Texas. All 268,597 square miles* of it.

well I, only plan to search a north south line 3×70 feet, so thats a little better.

Euhirudinea

Easy for you to say since you are searching primarily in San Francisco, where the Parks Department is actually helpful.

Yes they are and We love them for it.
However you are wrong since currently my primary search is in Texas and I will fly out there shortly.
no plans to dig but who knows…

Seriously?
I thought all hope was gone in the Texas search.

Unknown

Unknown:
well I, only plan to search a north south line 3×70 feet

Two hundred and ten square feet, at 16 holes per square foot is 3,360 holes. Assuming a 5% success rate (probe hits something), that’s only 168 holes you have to dig to be absolutely sure. In Texas clay. A little better is right.

MERLIN

Oil – maybe that is what that djinn guy coming out of the ground in the image is supposed to represent?

The Jinn guy from Persia depicts demon or spirit. On the left side of the twister you can see a spirit character and a trident on top of it.
All together could be a dust devil or the spirit of confederacy statue. Or even a watery version of a dust devil, a fountain!

Choice

The Jinn guy from Persia depicts demon or spirit. On the left side of the twister you can see a spirit character and a trident on top of it.
All together could be a dust devil or the spirit of confederacy statue. Or even a watery version of a dust devil, a fountain!

OR, oil, a snickers bar, god, cinderella, beer cooler, or countless other exact representations that a wild imagination can come up with. JFC…

It seems like everything sounds random to you BINGO!
If Herman Melville gets you to Hermann park then spirit of the confederacy in Sam Houston park could get you to the Sam Houston monument in Hermann park.
Nice tight little package!
Darn auto-correct!

erexere

Seriously?
I thought all hope was gone in the Texas search.

I don’t believe it was ever in the Children’s Zoo. If we read the Verse, it is most likely on the East side of the Lake.
Doghouse – I have probed and even had a city cop stop and ask me if I found anything interesting. Wherever you dig, bring a metal detector, it is the ultimate cover/conversation starter.

Euhirudinea

Two hundred and ten square feet, at 16 holes per square foot is 3,360 holes. Assuming a 5% success rate (probe hits something), that’s only 168 holes you have to dig to be absolutely sure. In Texas clay. A little better is right.

actually since I use a boroscope I only have to dig once

BINGO

OR, oil, a snickers bar, god, cinderella, beer cooler, or countless other exact representations that a wild imagination can come up with. JFC…

I found god in a beer cooler one time…..but there were no snickers bars – fate

You can find only tooth cavity with snickers bars.

Unknown

Unknown:
actually since I use a boroscope I only have to dig once

That remains to be seen. For all the talk of GPR, boroscopes, LIDAR, and X-Ray vision, the only tool proven effective at retrieving one of the things to date is a shovel. And someone willing to use it.
The best of luck to you Matt. I’ve been to Texas in July. Don’t forget to hydrate.

I guess as long as you are in a “stand-your-ground” state. Who’s gonna stop you as long as you’re packing heat?

Mao on Marx?…
Seriously, how are you going to find a dig spot if all you’re doing is adding layers of complication or adding more ways to go site seeing? What you need is a good sensible way to identify a dig spot. A spot can be below something, next to something, behind something, equally between two things, measured some distance away from something in a particular direction, between four things making intersecting points, etc. I’ll be forever partial to the Verbs book. Notice what the Apex Predator is doing…at the apex of that building…

erexere

jewelometry

That is an outstanding word. Absolutely perfect.

Let me add what I see as clues in the trees.
Who has noticed the mummy and shoe print in the trees? This ties to the lines in the verse:
Small in scale
– Houston Museum of Natural Science
Step across
– Go to the next block (Mecom Rockwell Colonnade)
As I’ve mentioned, the museum is small in scale when considering the millions of years of history in that building. Also in that building, you will find an Egyptian mummy. The shoe print is a great clue to step across the mummy’s building.
One thing I’ve seen is people refer to a cow catcher (front of train) in that triangular shape. Cow catchers have vertical bars not horizontal. I believe this is BP’s creative way of showing a clue to the Colonnade.
The number “2” is reference to Sam Houston being a Governor of 2 different states.
What else do you see that may be significant to your solve?

MrBackstop

The Rhino Column has a blue halo color around it

I found out why JJP put these halos around everything. Apparently in 1981 when he got paid to work on this book he spent a lot of evenings sitting around getting caned and listening to
Andromeda Girl
.

backstop youre off on that, via ayn rand we KNOW that small of scale refers to the train, the footstep takes you to the park N of hermann, where you see the mummy? you do go to the museum to find the camel (miniature figurine) in the egyptian exhibit…its an exact match to the camel (see photo i posted)

Yep, the Rhino Column has the blue halo, it is the starting point and the Globe column has the blue halo indicating the end. The casque is in the vicinity of the Colonnade.

JoshCornell

backstop youre off on that, via ayn rand we KNOW that small of scale refers to the train, the footstep takes you to the park N of hermann, where you see the mummy? you do go to the museum to find the camel (miniature figurine) in the egyptian exhibit…its an exact match to the camel (see photo i posted)

What does a communist have to do with anything Josh? And nope, small of scale has nothing to do with the train. The camel is the camel hump, aka Miller Hill. And I saw your photo of the camel, this could be where the idea came from but none of my solves have anything to do with going into a building.

MrBackstop

What does a communist have to do with anything Josh?

Ayn Rand

On the ground there were long thin tracks of iron, but it was not iron; it felt smooth and cold as glass.

Communist?

Euhirudinea

Communist?

Ayn Rand

When, at the age of twelve, at the time of the Russian revolution, I first heard the Communist principle that Man must exist for the sake of the State, I perceived that this was the essential issue, that this principle was evil, and that it could lead to nothing but evil, regardless of any methods, details, decrees, policies, promises and pious platitudes. This was the reason for my opposition to Communism then – and it is my reason now.

catherwood

By “these types” of hunts, do you just mean armchair-style in general? Might we have heard about any of your past successes? Were any of them well-known hunts? How many have you tried and yet failed to solve?
I’ve partnered with someone who solved a location from the book “A Treasures Trove” but he couldn’t travel to the location.

Who would that be and which token was it? My wife and I….with the help of oh so many others working on that hunt found ourselves sharing the find of the Bee Token with another hunter. Sadly, that other hunter took all of the credit as well as the token and the bee treasure for himself. C’est la vie
ps…congrats on the Clock find! That’s fantastic.

Have there been any conjectures about the squiggly, cursive-looking character to the left of the big ball on top of the column? Other parts of the trees contain the numbers 30, 95, and 96 (latitudes / longitudes for Houston), but what
is
that thing? A lowercase “y”? Part of a capital “G”?
I wonder if it might be helpful to see the original painting, and not just the part that was cropped for the book.

Fenix, I feel your confusion.  If the three winged and slight are the little cinder block guys (there is evidence of small ones, split ones, winged ones, not sure about slight), then I only have pictures of three in that area.
Yes, the whole area encompassed by the photo is about 20-30 feet across. I should have made that clearer. If you stand on the pad where brownie was, you can look right at the building. Perspective is kind of weird in that area when you compare it to the image 8.  Instead of saying northwest, say left.
Falls in December night?  I don’t know.  If it means the temperature, there were external thermometers on the buildings.
I wish I had better photos of the place back in 1982.
I did notice in verse 4 (cleveland) that even though the final location is the line that says “Seven steps up you can hop
From the bottom level”, the verse goes on from there also to further define the area.
wilhouse

ironically, they have a backhoe, and they are going to renovate the cz next year. the zoo director told me that I can come in a few weeks before they do that, take the backhoe, and dig up whatever I want.
I’d really like to find it before that…
wilhouse

you’re kidding…..how funny, I was joking
I’m with you tho,  think it would be much better finding the thing before the backhoe rolls in.  You are likely to just plow over the poor little casque with the backhoe.  Now, let’s see how much pull you have with Mr. Zooman……  what are the odds of you delaying the whole renovation project until we find our casque?  lol

wilhouse, i’m going thru and trying to organize my notes and happened to wonder about the brownie at the zoo.  we already have a djinn in the picture, which is Personal ( whatever that means).  a brownie is Informational.  do you think it was just coincidental that there just happened to be a brownie at the zoo?
i still like that mask for the hospital, lol.  i don’t see any djinn in the book with a mask on.

Slappy, please find Brownie the Elf here:
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=732.420
He’s conveniently located in a pool of water in the middle of the zoo.
Clearly, Preiss used Brownie as a key marker as to where the casque was, as it originally was in the CZ.
wilhouse

Wilhouse, I just had a thought….
The verse that says “in the center of four alike, small split three winged and slight”
Could this refer to FENCES?
Small
, (self explanatory-not a high fence),
Split
(split rail)
Three
(of them)
Winged
(or
Three-winged
) A “wing fence” is one that looks like this:
and
slight
? (Self explanatory–maybe shorter than usual–only one fence panel or something?)
I’ve looked at your pics online, and I see a lot of different kinds of fences…and it just hit me that the verse might just be referring to them.
I think you’ve about tried everything else, haven’t you?
Anyway, it’s just an idea.

Using Fox’s latitude/longitude theory, Houston’s is 30 x 95.  Both numbers appear in the trees.  The 30 is in the dark part of the tree, to the right of the 95.
Wilhouse, when are you going again?

Ok, there are 7 pillars shown in the P…..4 empty pillars, 1 camel, 1 rhino & 1 ball/orb.  These pillars are shown in an Arabian flare complete with sand dunes and a Djinn.  My query is this,  could this in any way tie into TE Lawrence ‘s story about Lawrence of Arabia titled “The Seven Pillars of Wisdom”?
here is a good bio on Mr. Lawrence:  http://www.lawrenceofarabia.info/life/biog.htm

Stop being a whiner. I’m sorry if you find my posts distracting. This forum is a place to share ideas. If you dont like an idea, there are several options available to you,
1) debunk the ideas you dont find worthy of this forum
2) place user on your ignore list
3) join the cabal
4) increase your intake of antidepressants

erexere

Stop being a whiner. I’m sorry if you find my posts distracting. This forum is a place to share ideas. If you dont like an idea, there are several options available to you,
1) debunk the ideas you dont find worthy of this forum
2) place user on your ignore list
3) join the cabal
4) increase your intake of antidepressants

Ok that was funny…sounds like something Dee would say.

Euhirudinea

Just to be clear, I am not a fan of most of Eric’s theories, but to blame him for the lack of progress on the puzzle seems a little unfair to me. And he’s not the one drawing penises (peneses, penii). That would be my incorrigible friend 421. If you don’t like what Eric has to offer, to the point that you find it distracting, it’s a very simple matter to put him on ignore. Personally, I think that would be a mistake, but that’s just my opinion.

Racer,
Renovator is right, and there is a lack of progress…on this forum, mainly because when idea’s are posted, they are criticized to death, but with no prerequisite for criticism other that peoples individual theories on how the puzzle is supposed to be solved. Because the method of how to solve the puzzle has never been laid out, there is too much speculation on everyone’s part as to what is right and wrong. Also there are a number of other “stumbling blocks” going on with the forum in relation to the puzzle.
People want to talk about dig spots…but unfortunately that isn’t going to work if people have no concept of how to find and work the clues, or if everyone’s concept of “what” and “how” and right and wrong is different across the board.

Euhirudinea

Just to be clear, I am not a fan of most of Eric’s theories, but to blame him for the lack of progress on the puzzle seems a little unfair to me. And he’s not the one drawing penises (peneses, penii). That would be my incorrigible friend 421. If you don’t like what Eric has to offer, to the point that you find it distracting, it’s a very simple matter to put him on ignore. Personally, I think that would be a mistake, but that’s just my opinion.

i don’t blame him or anyone else for the lack of progress. i never stated that. please don’t put words in my mouth. i do however find his posts distracting.

erexere

You’re copping out with that argument.  You don’t know that he didn’t bury something out in the open.

Actually somewhere back in the past posts I wrote a whole section on how
burying out in the open wasn’t likely and all the reasons why including
a sudden hole/dirt  appearing in a lawn would most likely be investigated and dug up immediately by grounds keepers.
The odds on being stopped while digging go up astronomically.
and the likelihood of not being able to find the exact spot again once the evidence of digging disappeared.
you can eliminate all that by finding a spot in a more hidden area, near something.
I went on for quite a while and I pretty much stand by it.
Next your assumption that a line drawn through the center of the whole to the head points at a single spot is faulty,
that would be true if  the hill was sloped up moving away from the statue. but it is sloped downward.
meaning the “spot” would actually be an “area”
imagine shining a flashlight directly at a perpendicular wall – you get a spot.
but shine it obliquely, you get a long oval. and  eyeballing the center of the hole in the statue is problematic.  Its 171 feet from the peak to the statue an error of an inch would move your location by feet.
Remember no laser pointers to make the job easier. even deciding which of your eyes you sighted through would change the location on the ground significantly. you would basically be able to draw a huge oval on the ground.  even a change of a few feet effectively geometrically squaring the amount of earth you will need to move to search.
So now I am not copping out I’m saying directly that’s a very unlikely spot to bury it much less find it if its there.

Okay, you make good points only not all apply without close inspection of the site.  The extreme option of using a precision tool such as a laser pointer is worth noting, but Preiss admitted that if someone provided enough details to prove they were close he would validate their find.  He was willing to account for his own errors apparently.  My assumption isn’t assumption nor faulty where two fixed points make a line.  An oval would make an area, especially over a gradient, but this specific situation calls for a point apex and a point center to direct us to a 1 or 2 foot diameter dig hole.  The actual variance or error allowed in this situation should be determined by an on site analysis.  Estimation of error with only the distance variable and not knowing the precise gradient makes the thought experiment inconclusive.  I wouldnt use that to support any arguments until more facts could be included.  Lets see if we can gather more information, estimated or exact height of Atropos and Miller apex and hill slope will help.
Also, photographic evidence supports a worn foot trail leading from the back side straight to the Atropos Key.  At the time of burying ther might have been a packed or worn dirt only path.  The evidence of a recently buried object might have been negligible t the time.  The park was notably poorly maintained at the time according to the park history records.  I don’t know what the soil conditions were like then.  The area is groomed grass now and no evidence of a trail is discernable.  Soil mustve been added and new grass planted.

well just doing math in my head and  Going with 171 feet to the statue.
guesing a 2 foot tall hole in the statue Id say depending on the slope way from the statue
a spot anywhere from 10 – 50 feet long.
and with the distinct lack of site confirmer images  Id say the CZ is a much better bet.

Atropos looks like its almost 12 feet tall.  Estimate 9 or 10 feet for that point?  The tip of the theater from the base of Atropos is about a 40 foot rise over 136 feet distance.  Going down that slope might protract into the trees!  You’re right about there being a lot of range in that dista nce variable based on slight degree difference.  I suggest we get someone over there who is willing to lay on their belly with head close to ground and use a pair of binoculars.
There’s a super tall lamp at the base of the hill.  My guess is it was there in 81.  I can’t accurately guess where this spot could be.  Here’s the best I can come up with from streetview.
Imagine my ovals are on a straight line.
I’m guessing that hill isn’t more than 20 feet high from it’s base.  Our spot might actually be right near the base of the tall light tower.
I refreshed the image to include my hand art.
I think this location motif of lining up the apex in the atropos is like lining something up in the crosshairs.  The star looks like that.

I’d guess that the burial site is immediately under the location where you piled the dirt.
OK, just kidding, but that’s kinda the nature of things, isn’t it?
Pine

well, of course we piled the dirt where we expect to dig next!!
wilhouse

for those of you who like heavy equipment, here are some shots of the dig at the zoo.
we did about 1/2 of what I’d like to do, which is finish off the area around the front of the party room.  we did do a 3 foot by 6 foot wide trench around the front of it.
http://share.dell.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8IZM27Nm0bMSU
wilhouse

The planetarium may be a generic shape, but it is in a specific place which matches the primary focus of the image8 campaign, therefore derro72 has made an excellent observation. I would next consider how it works in terms of perspective and how it exactly matches the arc of the pillar’s top from a 360-degree search pattern for a secondary visual confirmer such as the tilted stone piers of the MOT to narrow things down further.

This image is subject to distortions from the fisheye of the google camera but I found it interesting to compare the relative size of the Sam Houston statue at a place that is a similar distance from the planetarium which I’ve had to estimate in size given it’s obscured by trees. I think these two objects help to indicate a frame of reference at another point in the park, several points actually, given that we might be up against flip-flop of North/South or East/West perspectives.
Based on the relative size of the planetarium, we might consider any of these blue circles as options, but adding in the size of the Sam Houston statue at a distance, and perhaps those closest to the tilted stones of the Miller Outdoor Theater. It all depends on what we choose to take into account as we decide on the correct paradigm used for this puzzle location.

The planetarium has some appeal given the star, but I don’t honestly think the roof of that building could be said to have any resemblance to the pillar. They share an arc is all, which is a pretty generic shape.

Couple more thoughts on them Larkspur cetaceans.
Flicking through the field guide, I noticed a dolphin reference under the Pentagorgon.
Found a reference to the “Dolphin Fountains” on Main St, but I don’t know where this is, or how long it’s been there.
Passing the Dolphin Fountains on Main I felt the first spats of the storm that was about to lash space-town.
http://soulmerlin.com/almanack/?cat=27
Is there / was there a dolphin area at the zoo…?

I’ve been in three cities that are possible casque locations: charlston, houston and san fran.
Due to my schedule, I happen to have been to houston many times over the past couple years and have walked a couple locations that I think might work. I’m leaving for Houston tuesday and I thought I would throw all my thoughts out. Please! let me know if you think something doesn’t make sense, could work, or looks promising. I’d love to hear any thoughts on any of it. Here goes:
I think the entire scene has a “space” feel.
The tree leaves resemble rockets: the landscape is supposed to be the craters on the moon.
I think the etchign resembles the man on the moon sticking his pole with the flag on it into the lunar surface.
I think this is sam houston park because of the visual clues and matches: the armillary sphere is a spot on match, as is the spriit of the confedereacy. In the found casques, visual clues meant you were close: why does hermann park even become an option at this point?
I think the wood no lion fears is referencing a log cabin that is an “attraction” in the park, which would explain how you can go through it. There is a large open, pathway straight through the middle.
the number 982: there is a monument that references the number beside the log cabin, across from arms crossed statue.
The park across from this one is tranquillity park that has a dediction to space travel AND a footprint plaque of the first lunar footstep. It is also a small scale model of something space-y (i forget: my notes are downstairs)
Lastly: lots of math references: perspective, scale, etc in the verse
feel free to comment; would love to hear it…
The tall cylinders are an almost exact match for the pillars in the picture: and I think the herman referenced in the verse means herman square.

The pole and ball is basically a reverse rebus if it translates as the North Pole (pole on top of sphere).

why couldn’t the hermann quote be herman square?

Unknown

Unknown:
As the vine flourishes, and the grape empurples close up to
the very walls and muzzles of cannoned Ehrenbreitstein; so do
the sweetest joys of life grow in the very jaws of its perils.
But is life, indeed, a thing for all infidel levities, and we, its
misdeemed beneficiaries, so utterly fools and infatuate, that
what we take to be our strongest tower of delight

Erexere, I thought you’d like this.
Ehrenbreitstein is a
fortress
. (Hermann goes on about it in Moby Dick as well.)

This is what I’m thinking visually,

The plaque on the armillary sphere says 2000.
http://www.houstontx.gov/civicart/artwo … photo4.jpg
wilhouse

WhiteRabbit

Erexere, I thought you’d like this.
Ehrenbreitstein is a
fortress
. (Hermann goes on about it in Moby Dick as well.)

I love that thanks

i don’t know.
I don’t think it would be in the park: probabaly the peripheral or between the parks? It’s not in a flower bed, per the rules, so i’m stumped.
think i’m crazy? Space idea too out there?
PS the reason Im posting all this is because someone needs to find this thing and put me out of my misery:) I’m going to be sneaking away from a wedding downtown to search for a buried treasure worth nothing.
MAKE IT STOP!

If you’re actively working on the Houston casque, then yes, you’re crazy.
Join the crazy club.
wilhouse

erexere

I love that thanks

I really really love that. Damn.

In 2000 they just cleaned it up:
Title: Armillary Sphere
Artist: Kenneth Lynch and Sons
Date: 1977
Medium: Steel & Bronze
Location: Sam Houston Park
Attributed to Kenneth Lynch and Sons, the Armillary Sphere in Sam Houston Park was donated to the City of Houston in 1977 by Elizabeth Bracewell, President of the Houston Heritage Society from 1969 to 1971. The steel and bronze sphere points to the celestial North Pole. Round bands represent the meridian of Houston and the equator, as well as the signs of the zodiac.

Maybe I’m missing something obvious, but what is the Armillary Sphere a spot-on match for? The orb at the top of the column in P8? Isn’t one sphere pretty much a spot-on match for any other sphere in existence, ever?

Shape ubiquity is always a red flag.
The best explanation for the sphere on the column came from a good friend of mine. It’s literaly a pole with a sphere at the top. Isn’t that symbolically opposite of what our planet Earth has? Earth is a sphere with a pole on the top (bottom too). The question then is what does the North Pole have to do with anything? I think that’s a fun thought and it plays with the recent Santa Claus theories I’ve been thinking about.

kathleen0421

visual clues meant you were close: why does hermann park even become an option at this point?

Mainly the animals and pillars in the zoo.
I still like the leaves/Atropos resemblance…
Other possibilities include the sand dunes…
But the 982 is the most compelling piece of evidence, together with the Hermann quote.
I honestly think you’d be wasting your time in Sam Houston park.

Unknown

Unknown:
Completed in 1926, the “flying cage”, as it was called, was the largest structure in the zoo. Although Hurricane Carla destroyed the aviary’s wire superstructure in 1961, the concrete faux bois sculptures designed by Dionicio Rodriguez remain. These include a fountain, logs, ledges, and rock bordering a shallow pond.

From West, at close of day, Beneath sails brilliant as a peacock’s fan, Djinni arrived.
The Djinni are Houstonians; reminded me of the Hermann Park
aviary
.
(Not sure when that was written.)

Someday? What’s holding you back from expressing those factual points now? Any new information you’re prepared to bring is welcome.

No, not the entirety of the book, just the one page. I should’ve wrote my question more accurately to point out that the page where the quote is found also contains the words “Three Weird Ones” and that may offer the possibility that Atropos is important to the puzzle.

erexere

Someday? What’s holding you back from expressing those factual points now?

I haven’t dug up all the casques yet.
Besides, I’ve tried time and time again to steer you(all) toward looking at these puzzles a little differently, but nobody seems to wanna. I could tell you now, but we both know the only thing that will convince you that you can know a location before you dig is a few pictures of casques.

Unknown

Unknown:
Someday I will loose a puzzle fact regarding the Melville quote (among other things), and you will be pissed at how much time you wasted.

The research we do, like the holes we dig, have this in common; we can always dig just a little bit deeper. I think this is the exact opposite of what Preiss had in mind for us when he stated “A little digging is the task” in the opening poem. But now that he’s gone, and seemingly taken the secret with him, we have no other choice if we ever hope to recover the next casque, and the one after that.

Euhirudinea

The research we do…

And by “we,” he means himself. I don’t work with old curmudgeons who are bent on finding Bible clues.

erexere

No, not the entirety of the book, just the one page. I should’ve wrote my question more accurately to point out that the page where the quote is found also contains the words “Three Weird Ones” and that may offer the possibility that Atropos is important to the puzzle.

Someday I will loose a puzzle fact regarding the Melville quote (among other things), and you will be pissed at how much time you wasted. Until then, I guess you could be right… Can you tell me how many pages I can use for the “build palaces” quote or the “edwin and edwina” quote? Am I allowed to use one page there, too?

I like the way you put “we could always dig a little deeper.” It would go well on a t-shirt. “jail if dig,” is still a my favorite.

erexere

I’m thinking that the djinn and the ruby are a relative position clue.

Yet none of the found images had positional clues in the images.  The gem in the image did not relate to the casque location, But they did have site locater images, images you could see from the casque.

True, I think it’s worth a try with this new scenario.  The literary reference from Pierre is about taking something commonplace and then finding some small and special significance in it.
I think the columns with adorned tops represent finials and is a clue about the acorn.
What do you think, does a lion look like an acorn?

I don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea here, so please pay attention to this muddled conception.
On some level, images are relating to other images.  Perhaps it’s part of the overall methodology and a way to nudge us in the right direction.  I think this 90 degree rotated shape is similar to Milwuakee where the shape of a tree trunk and is primary branches is a 90 degree rotation in the black cape.  This one is a little more tricky since it has some image elements overlaying or crossing the boundaries, in other words the shape of a tree extends through some of these lines:
I like how the choice of having the primary columns shadow go through this tree and look very similar to a strong consideration for a marker I’m relating to image 9, the Hollow Tree,
Don’t be confused by this, just accept that it’s an unnecessary addition to the image to corral our minds in the general direction of some of the better known visual markers.

I’m thinking that the djinn and the ruby are a relative position clue.
The trick is seeing that the hat of the djinn is much like the shape of the Miller Outdoor theater and then seeing that you have to run a line from the theater through a curved path that actually fits the train track shape and then into an area with large trees.  That line is roughly the line taken when you connect base of the djinn and the ruby.

Can we think of the decorated colums as a “finial”?

Hermann Rorschach?

ok, here’s a link to the album for the pictures I took the other day at the zoo.  Tank has the video and he’s going to parcel it up into smaller bits for viewing and put them on UTube.
enjoy.
wilhouse
http://share.dell.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8IZM27Nm0bMR6

Unknown

Unknown:
I think most of the guessing that is common about this particular casque location online is incorrect…in fact, I’m sure of it. And I think I can prove it.

Don’t blame 421 for holding you to the high standard you yourself set in you initial post. With all due respect, you have offered a lot of opinions (Preiss could not have buried the casque in the CZ, the hat on brownie does not look like the hat on the djinn, the NA column in the Image is a city confirmer as opposed to a location confirmer, aqua tunnel vs fountains, etc.) but very little proof. Is that forthcoming?

I agree with you to some point, but first don’t you think it’s important to know what they are for?
Also, there are plenty of things in the image which are vague and obscure, things that could be interpreted as almost anything. This is why it’s first important to figure out what these clues are meant for.

Just stuff for visitors to look out for I guess. Like Gandhi, say, if the dates weren’t out.

wilhouse

I respect your opinion and I’m fine with it.
The only thing I argue with is that there are no markers in the CZ:
– columns with horizontal divisions (totems in the CZ), nowhere else to be found
– elf fountain (hat on the djinn and the fountain itself)
– light poles with orbs on them exactly as in the image (those poles are no where else but in the CZ area and a few in the zoo proper)
wilhouse

Wilhouse…
I just wanted to point out, as an aside, that those light globes WERE elsewhere in the park. When the old Houston Garden Center was still up, there was a pathway that ran from the old Rose Garden, out in front of the main entrance to the Houston Garden Center and down towards the golf course. The pathway was lined with those light posts. At least as recent as the mid-90’s.
I remember in the mid-90’s, getting off of work some nights from the planetarium/museum and walking back to my car in the far parking lot. I’d walk down that pathway, which was really charming during the Fall and Winter. I remember seeing those lights as far back as my teens (mid-80’s), and I’ll be honest and say I don’t recall whether they were there before then…as I had no real reason to notice/remember. I’m just saying that, at least as far back as the mid-80’s in my memory, those lights were on that pathway. That pathway is still there, though now it’s covered in reddish gravel and has been widened. It used to be much more intimate. That whole Houston Garden area was. I hate what they did to it. Anyways…
On that elf fountain…’Bob’ :you know, I can kind of see where you are going with that….but I just can’t say I’m convinced. I’ve loved that little statue for a long time: as a kid, he was hilarious (according to me and my kid sister). He sits in the middle of the reflecting pond at the zoo these days. But when I look at him and his hat and all of that, it just offers little to no connection in my eyes with the hooded fella in the image #8. It’s a real reach. Little Bob is a fat elf/dwarf…wearing a little elf/dwarf hat. The guy in Image #8 is NOT wearing a hat: he is wearing a middle-eastern style head-wrapping – you can see how it actually wraps around his neck. It’s wrapped in a way that he has left his eyes uncovered. Very common desert-gear: not a ‘hat’. Even the shape….you know, it’s a reach to try and compare the two.
Now, the columns…I’ll give you that. Those were in the zoo. But as we all know too well, BP has used detailed imagery of objects in the paintings to denote the general area of a casque in question, not necessarily the dig-area. I think those posts were just confirmations that the zoo was nearby…such as the statues, fountains,buildings illustrated in the Cleveland and Chicago painting.
Of, I could be wrong about all of the above: I’m wrong a lot.

No worries I appreciate your insight. I’ll try to dig up some old photos of the garden center and confirm whether there are those old globe lights there or not.
wilhouse

Dero72

Of, I could be wrong about all of the above: I’m wrong a lot.

I would encourage you to dig a hole and determine for yourself. You do know exactly where to dig, right? Or, is it just an “area?” It’d also be great if after you dig a hole, you report back; though, I can understand apprehension in doing so for a number or reasons. What doesn’t help is pushing your idea (or degrading somebody else’s) with the assumption you are correct when you have the ability to easily know… Go dig.
Only once you have a casque in hand can you present your ideas in a manner suggesting that somebody else’s theories are factually incorrect (e.g., the brownie’s hat doesn’t look like the djinn’s).
… Unless, of course, you can factually show why beforehand.
Does it really matter if there were globes elsewhere? I mean, I know there were, but how does that fact negate its usefulness in determining a digspot? How many of these puzzles have you looked at, Dero? Does the fence in Chicago ring a bell? Have you ever been there?