I think the best chance of making new progress with this puzzle is by matching up previously unnoticed objects in the pictures. I reckon there’s plenty of scope for that, though you’ll probably need to look out for a clean copy of the 1982 edition. (Haven’t seen the reprint, but most of the scans knocking about online are a bit rough.)
For instance, in the corner of Image 8 there’s the suggestion of some kind of plinth or corner steps. I’ve done this random comparison to indicate it, using one of the aforementioned scans, though it’s better defined in the book.

Glossiphoniidae

I would encourage you to dig a hole and determine for yourself. You do know exactly where to dig, right? Or, is it just an “area?” It’d also be great if after you dig a hole, you report back; though, I can understand apprehension in doing so for a number or reasons. What doesn’t help is pushing your idea (or degrading somebody else’s) with the assumption you are correct when you have the ability to easily know… Go dig.
Only once you have a casque in hand can you present your ideas in a manner suggesting that somebody else’s theories are factually incorrect (e.g., the brownie’s hat doesn’t look like the djinn’s).
… Unless, of course, you can factually show why beforehand.
Does it really matter if there were globes elsewhere? I mean, I know there were, but how does that fact negate its usefulness in determining a digspot? How many of these puzzles have you looked at, Dero? Does the fence in Chicago ring a bell? Have you ever been there?

1. Well, you CAN’T dig where I think BP planted the casque: it’s impossible today. I’ll explain that later. But let me say that I think you’re being pretty presumptuous, there. You don’t really know me or what I’ve done/dug/etc before I came on this site. I’ve known about The Secret AND this forum for YEARS. You’d be surprised where I’ve dug and how many times I’ve scrapped every idea I had on this and started over. I say that with good feeling and friendly spirit.
2. And to be clear: OF COURSE you DON’T need a casque in hand to criticize someone else’s opinion about a detail in the image or in the verse. Why, you have the right to criticize my opinions! Saying the hat doesn’t look like what the djinn wears is my OPINION…just as Wilhouse’s assertion that it does is an OPINION. I won’t get bent out of shape if someone calls my interpretations unreasonable or illogical (which a few folks already have). And I won’t demand that they produce the Houston casque before they call my assertions incorrect. That would be silly on my part. NO ONE HAS THE CASQUE. So all opinions are game…both to propose and to be shot down. That IS the atmosphere around here, right? Everyone here does realize we are all on the same team…correct?
3. And YES, it might matter that the globes were elsewhere. Didn’t you read what Wilhouse said? His guess that the CZ was the spot was supplemented by, among other things, the fact that those globes were found in the zoo…and his belief that they were possibly nowhere else in the park. The fact that they were could impact his statements to a certain degree…relatively speaking.
4. Your mentioning of the fence in Chicago: well, this brings up something I said in an earlier post:
Looking at the 2 puzzles which have been solved…each image shows the actual spot where the item is buried. The actual visual marker is pictured in the imagery. In Chicago, the fence post. In Cleveland, the wall.
If this holds true in all of the puzzles, the actual, literal image of where this treasure is buried is pictured in that illustration.
Thing is, in both Chicago and Cleveland, the paintings contain a LOT of literal images…some of which dictate the city, and others which dictate the general area. So every image you recognize isn’t necessarily a marker to ‘dig here’.
THAT SAID, among all of those images, there were a couple that said, ‘dig here’.
So, I’m studying that Houston image…like I have been for the last few years.

For those who are interested….i started a group on FACEBOOK for the Houston search. Just go to the
Search box and type in “
The Secret A Treasure Hunt (Houston) Byron Preiss
“. I figured it would
be a good place for the Houston treasure hunters to chat, post images and get to know
others in the area. I wanted to have a place to post my pictures, talk about my theories,
and let others follow what I have been doing lately.

Well, I’d be quite happy to accept the quote as a “Herman” pointer – the area I’m talking about is in the middle of the place, on Hermann Park Drive, by Hermann Park Golf Course. (I’m not disputing the visual matches in the CZ. I just think they might be involved in a different way.)
Still wondering about the tiled/plain division…maybe the layout of blocks in the area…
Two rows of eleven tiles on the left of the image…maybe the columns at the back are saying 11 of something…?

I agree with Wilhouse about the quotes. This one, the one from Treasure Island and the one from Sarmiento are, IMHO, a publisher’s little “inside joke” leading you to a general location, but not more than that. I think you’re a great researcher, WR, but you overcomplicate things sometimes.

Another quick thought…
Instead of going round by the fountains, maybe the trail could simply go from, or through, the zoo, up Hermann Park Drive.
The sloping stone might represent a post of the Miller Centre…or just the whole thing…
This shows the positions of the ‘pole’, the Miller Centre post, and the curve beside the golf course where the fishbone is.
That would put the focus between the camel and the rhino…these were posts at the CZ, weren’t they…? Does anything spring to mind about what was between them…? Or maybe, would appear between them from a certain angle…? Like I say, I’m not against the CZ, I’m just trying to work it differently…scale it up, use it to pinpoint a spot in the wider world.
Any chance of some pics of this area just to humour me…?  😉

A gem at the base of a pillar…
This is just by that “snowdrop” sign.
You remember those two rows of 11 tiles with a pole at the end…? How about taking the 11th pole down this fence, with its rows of two panels. Or just the left end of the row. There’s even a mark on the right-end tile to show the corner. Sounds like a fun day out.

JoshCornell

ive said straight up its going to be hard to get houston cause of the markers being gone…but i def got us down to the right location. and ive told everyone.

most everybody disagrees with your location and solution.

pretty sure i have the gnome, dog, gman…was this there in the 80s?
http://www.bigkidsmallcity.com/2018/04/ … l-seasons/

got the bee! takes you to musician bee houston from san antonio and gives you a hint about how to read one of the verse clues.

space 4 seems to contain a t-rex and possibly also an astronaut helmet, with obvious connections.

space 5 has person with distinctive hat, or angel, or possibly an egyptian queen/princess.

space 6 has the mask on the miller outdoor theatre, maybe also half a rams skull.

space 6 (top) has a rabbit, and at least 3 faces.

there may be a rabbit hidden in every puzzle somehow, as an homage to masquerade…this is the second rabbit ive seen.

no fingers or eyes, notable.
you use a similar tactic as employed in masquerade to solve this puzzle on a map.

two face on right side look like children. left face is more charictured, almost like the fort sumter pendent with its tongue sticking out.

lower space 6 also seems to contain a face with a large distinctive nose.

space 8 (brown) is a face of what looks like a hooded boy. face is right up against last pillar.

space 3 (top) (brown) has a bear head, looks polar bearish cause of the colour.

bear head takes you to university of houston (also a tip for NYC puzzle).

space 8 (right) (blue) contains either a cow, pig or goat. it might be meant to be a cow and a pig. allen ranch maybe?

is that the fucking chthullu inside the hooded boy (lighter colouring)? could be geiger’s alien (xenomorph) or a demon of some sort.

i think it is, and i think its pointing you to that underground cistern with all the pillars in it!!!

so good.

2 pages of post after post after post minutes apart. Do you really need attention that badly?

i think its also the xenomorph. and i think this takes you to “gum arabic”.

you mad im busting the shit out of these clues? do you want the puzzle solved or not? i can easily just not share you ungrateful pos.

oh, all the people who have no idea whats going on? so what?

The only solves you are sharing exist in your mind. You continue to claim you have solved all of these and then come up empty handed on not one, nor two, nor three… how many were there again?

ive said straight up its going to be hard to get houston cause of the markers being gone…but i def got us down to the right location. and ive told everyone.

Our first dig this morning at the childrens zoo in 95 degree heat didn’t reveal anything. We took the rest of the afternoon exploring the next area to dig. We are waiting from the parks board to get approval for the second location because it is in a high traffic area. Just got home…and going through the photos we took.
We may wait till september to search the second site when the tempertures cool down. It got up to 105 this afternoon.

Echoing what has already been said. Get in there and find some treasure. Good luck

Good luck – dig one up!

when I try to upload something to the site I get this error:
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.
how are others posting pics?
wilhouse

Wilhouse, I’m using an image hosting service called photobucket. You can use other’s like Flickr, etc.
When I post a link it uses an image tag syntax with a nested url,

[ url=http://s11.photobucket.com/user/erexere/media/thoughtson%20image%208_zpsnoylkvxr.png.html ][ img ]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/erexere/thoughtson%20image%208_zpsnoylkvxr.png[ /img ][ /url ][ /quote ]

what do you make of the rhino and camel?
wilhouse

Hello all,
I have been studying image 8 for quit some time now and have recently come up with an idea. I know most people believe that Herman park is the site for this but I have come up with another location that matches the picture quite well……have not seen this mentioned but I may have missed it.
Tranquility Park, Downtown Houston.
built in 1979 in honor of the Apollo 11 moon landing.
Below is an image from Google Earth, I have circled the 6 columns in red that are there for sure and one in blue that could be one making a total of 7 just like image 8
I have searched the web for pictures and the only ones I found show only 3 columns, after looking at Google Earth I realized there are at least 6.
The columns represent rockets that are actually fountains (water runs down them) I have other theories but wanted to see what everyone thinks.

In the spirit of ‘mill+walk+key’ for image 10, how about
hewn+stone = Houston for image 8?

adj 1: cut down with an ax; “a hewn oak” 2: cut or shaped with hard blows of a heavy cutting instrument like an ax or chisel; “a house built of hewn logs”; “rough-hewn stone”; “a path hewn through the underbrush”
v. intr.
To make or shape with or as if with an ax: hew a path through the underbrush.
To cut down with an ax; fell: hew an oak.
To strike or cut; cleave.
To cut something by repeated blows, as of an ax.
To adhere or conform strictly; hold: hew to the line.
lots of stone. where’s the hewn?
wilhouse

The camel and rhino dont make sense to me no matter how hard I try………my other ideas are too far out there……at the time the position and number of the columns really looked like a good match but nothing else really fits.
Now….if it were an elephant instead of a camel I would have something to say……..elephant + rhino =

wilhouse

lots of stone. where’s the hewn?

I was thinking of the phrase ‘rough-hewn stone’.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hewn

I had another thought. What if that is not a water spout but a mushroom cloud. I see spooky looking faces in it. Nevada test site could explain that. The idiom “letting the genie out of the bottle” was used when they did nuclear testing. People used to stand and watch the clouds in Las Vegas.

Bunnies are nice. How about a jackrabbit? Some things I noticed, the outline of the state of Nevada is one block over from the right corner. The 95 could be county 95 which runs through Laughlin and Bullhead City Az then turns into US 95 going north to Las Vegas. Nevadas state flower is the sagebrush. That is a small tree or shrub and not a flower per say as the other pictures. Maybe that accounts for the foliage around the top.

Yesterday I went digging in the CZ. Obviously I didn’t find anything.
My plan was to dig in all the open spots around the Asia exhibit, which I mostly did.  There are various spots next to stone walls where the benches are that would be good spots to bury the casque.  I either dug or poked at all of them with no success.
There was a spot across from the Asia exhibit which used to be all grass, but was converted to a garden.  I poked around there a bit, but it is really overgrown with ivy so it was hard to do.
I still have had no success decoding the crucial lines of verse 1, small, split, three winged and slight.
Others have remarked that perhaps that verse goes with another image.  If so, they first need to determine what their number 982 is.
wilhouse

New to game, thanks to Eg’s article in home town Cleveland PD.  Just found this site, Lovin’ it.  Been at it about 6 months.  Is everyone sure of Houston and zoo as match to this site??  This image reminds me of Las Vegas and fits much better with desert theme:  Aladdin’s (Djinn), Paris (don’t know if this existed in 1981-2?? probably not right..), Algier’s (rhino), and the Sahara (camel looks just like their sign) down the strip (keeps the perspective).  State route ’95’ runs right through Las Vegas, and the branch attached to “95” if followed, runs a very similar route visually through Vegas.  Don’t know about 96 or 30 at this point.  Caesars’ Palace has columns galore and had a 15 story tower added to it many years ago.   V2 may fit:  “Jewels abound” (referencing vegas lights at night),  “…build palaces to shelter their heads for a night” (the hotels and the glamour).   All the icons are facing West in the direction of the setting sun.

Stercox, welcome aboard. All views are appreciated and desired.
I do have an email from Preiss that says that there is a Houston casque. He did not say which one.
I can’t find a better fit for Houston than image 8.  Check out the cap on Brownie the elf and the cap on the djinn.
Also, 95/30 is Lat/Long for Houston.
uh, all icons facing west would face the sunset…no matter where they are in the US…
wilhouse

I posted some pictures of today’s search on the
facebook page: The Secret A Treasure Hunt (Houston) Byron Preiss.

erexere

Would be great if you can share any sort of proper citation.

I’ll ask mark for pictures and post them.

I’m thinking maltedfalcon style here…iconic shape?  What if these column shapes in the buildings architecture are the four alike and in the middle only means Fannin St.?  If so, i’m back to my idea that the small split is where Fannin splits off between the Mecom and Sam Houston landmarks.
Fortress North, standing in front of the Church Tower cited by Wilhouse we can still see the First City Tower.

The blimp idea is going strong.  The Shenandoah Crash is still a juicy story to consider.  The reason for the disaster was storm related, something called a squall line, which in its description included such terms as tornadoes and “waterspouts”.
Maybe BP saw an opportunity to combine the idea of Moby Dick a giant white whale with the idea of a Blimp, a giant whale-like air ship.  He spins an “Ahabian” quest into an Arabian tale.
Falling Gently is what these ships do as long as they aren’t on fire.
In December night might be the idea that cold air might affect the bouyancy of an airship although they have regulators for temperature and pressure of the gas inside.

This the first mention of those signs?  Nice find!

they’re not in the Houston zoo parking lot, which in 1982 was much smaller.  But, how about this? At the zoo entrance.
wilhouse

Here’s a goodyear blimp airfield in Spring, Texas that was present sometime between 1964 and still there in 1981.

i found a historic aerial  of hermann park,from  1981,1957,64,73,02,04
it has some cool features,overlays for roads city county,it has a dissolve with slide
bar,or slide say 1981 img into X yr,a piece at a time,best viewed in full screen when
you get which ever view you want
6200 hermann park drive houston tx
link to the 1981 view
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials. … &year=1981
i forgot the source where i found the historic-aerials
http://library.rice.edu/collections/ere … ic-aerials

Unknown

Unknown:
That’s my opinion and why I don’t believe the Meecham fountain or the garden center fountain are the veering water.

Unknown

Unknown:
To suggest two of these but deny any possibility of the third is selective blindness, especially when the curve of the Garden Center parking lot runs alongside large piles of sand at the golf course.

I don’t either. I think it’s more suggestive of the fountains in the water-play feature near the Pioneer memorial. and that’s pretty much where I think the casque is buried. ClosER to that memorial obelisk (not NEXT to it)–and not IN the zoo at all.
Yes, a lot of the features in the image lead you into the Children’s zoo, but maybe that’s because he CAME from that direction–in other words, I’m wrong about the “veering water” altogether and he’s talking about going from SOUTH to NORTH, instead of the other way around. Remember–these verses are not linear–they don’t have to be in the order they’re written. I’m willing to bend on this for that reason, (or any other good one.) My major reasoning for this is that the Arab is standing in the water–IN the water spout. And he mentions “there’s the spout.”  The aqua tunnel does not satisfy that idea, IMHO–though I will grant it does for the veering water. The memorial also satisfies the line about “strongest tower”.
I will not believe in any way that it is in or around the Garden Center. I’ve stated many reasons for that, no need to repeat them.
I take it the Japanese gardens were not there in 1981? It looks as if they were placed in the area where there used to be a playground  and ball fields. Am I correct?
….
I’m sorry you think I’m just being selectively blind. I suppose I could say the same about you–since you absolutely refuse to entertain any other idea than that parking lot marking. Even though the likelihood of it being buried in a bunker on a golf course is nil, and there’s no place to dig in the parking lot either. I guess we’re even that way.

Shecrab, have I dug and dug in the CZ and found nothing? True. Yes, we bulldozed and found nothing.
Have I dug everywhere I think it could be? No.
Some parts of the CZ where I think it has a good chance of being were filled with huge roots and hard as a rock. I couldn’t even get my poker through it.
I’ve eliminated a lot of places it could be by digging, but not all. Unfortunately, some are now inaccessable. There are a few places I could still try if I could get permission.
However, as I’ve always said, until it’s found everything is wide open. I try not to stifle anyone’s opinion unless I know for certain what they’re looking at or for is wrong (as when I said there’s no water tower that I know of, or that there is a kugel ball.)
In some ways I’d love to be proven wrong, but I’m also the devils advocate. Follow the verse. Find clues from the image. Give a convincing argument (unlike some people from the Treasure Trove days who like to anagram to make their points.)  Make sure what you’re looking at is from 1982 not 2002.
In these ways we still have a chance to find it!
wilhouse

Shecrab, you might have missed it, but the the reason I believe the spout is in the CZ is because the elf is a FOUNTAIN!
Yes, the elf had a water connection to it, and water came out of his hand and cascaded down the statue into the base, which was a recessed area that was tiled. You can kind of see it in the polaroid picture I posted. Yes, people threw coins into the fountain, though not much.
So in my opinion, the picture is literal, not figurative.  The djinn in the fount of water IS the elf which IS a fountain. The spout of water coming from the elf could only be seen from a very limited area in the back area of the CZ. I believe if you were standing on the treasure you could see the spout. That is why I believe it’s in the back area of the CZ.
The area around the reflective pond and the monument (which was one of the first places I looked) is surrounded by hard packed fill. It’s essentially undiggable it’s so hard, on purpose, so that they don’t have to replace it.  The area around the pool was a public place with benches. I don’t think you could bury anything right in that area. Even so, if it was there, as I said, it’s gone cause that area was completely redone when the pond size was doubled.
wilhouse

wilhouse, does my memory deceive me, or was there discussion some years ago about a fountain in McGovern Lake — an occasional jet of water that would shoot high into the air and which could be described as a “spout”?

I’m wrestling with perspective changes that are huge when comparing small location shifts in Google Maps or Bing Maps.  Their 360 degree rendering really mucks with the process too.  In my minds eye I can see this working perfectly and I’m 100% sold on this at this point.  What’s needed is someone to be standing further into the image and on the right spot.  I’ve found two angles that are on both sides of that imaginary view.
And that dune curve,

can you tell what building that is? there’s been a huge amount of reconstruction on that street in the last 10 years
wilhouse

Its the older of the bunch.  1977.  Memorial Hermann Hospital Southwest, Heart and Vascular center.
…
I think it’s totally new construction, ah man…It looked so good.  Guess it’s time to go back to the drawing board.  30 years is a total pain in the ass.

yeah, I watched them reconstruct that building which is why I asked.
wilhouse

wilhouse

yeah, I watched them reconstruct that building which is why I asked.
wilhouse

Thanks for not letting me hang myself too long on that bogus theory.  Its going to hurt like a one night stand for a day or two…
Glad i caan fall back to my blimp theory now.  It works better with the BSG too!  I know…i dont expect any love…but I really like the flying stuff.  What flies in Arabian culture?  Djinni?  Carpets?
If i have lucked out to recall that blimps were the coolest things in the sky in 1981, and the landing strip and circle are pretty close to exact the shape of the ball-topped column then why not pursue this further?  What would a blimp veer from?  How about the tallest building in Houston at the time?  First City Tower on 1001 Fannin St. is just up the road from the park entrance.

Unknown

Unknown:
Shecrab, you might have missed it, but the the reason I believe the spout is in the CZ is because the elf is a FOUNTAIN!

I did miss that. Thanks. But……(don’t you just hate this?)
I
know
you’re convinced it’s in the CZ, and you have compelling, if not probably solid, reasons. And you have confirmers. But you searched–and found nothing–correct? And you did use a backhoe (or bulldozer) or some such–correct?  And they did dig up most of the CZ and remodel it and still found nothing–correct?
So maybe it’s time for another idea?  I know there is a lot of land around the monument and the water play fountain near the memorial that is undiggable. I realize that. And believe me–I’m not just saying this to be stubborn. I agree(d) with almost 100% of what you saw and claimed before–but the stickler here is that you dug and found nothing. And you KNOW it’s in Hermann Park somewhere. Were there parts of the Czoo you didn’t dig in? Or didn’t search?

Thinking on the method having used select parts of the image to determine the location.  Im inclined to think “gaining perspective” is about finding someones point of view.  Whose?  The Elf?  Some other statue of a person or creature?  camel, rhino, djinni looking in same direction and using the most recognizable feature as a map view puts something of a clue in place.  We should find something that faces west?  Does the Elf look west?  Brb.
Okay, i was hoping was Dowling but he looks mostly south by southwest.  Houston looks east.  Hermann looks west, maybe its him.  Now looking at his perspective what matches something in the image?  Hermann memorial Southwesrt hospital was built im ’77 and has Heart and Vascular written on the facade below a tower.  strongest tower of delight = heart?  Wow!!  The angle from Hermann’s perspective looks upon a decorative arch from the SIDE and it matches nearly exact the rhino column.

shecrab

I’m sorry you think I’m just being selectively blind. I suppose I could say the same about you–since you absolutely refuse to entertain any other idea than that parking lot marking. Even though the likelihood of it being buried in a bunker on a golf course is nil, and there’s no place to dig in the parking lot either.

On the contrary, if you review my postings during the age that all attention has been focussed on the CZ, you’ll see that I’m very open to ideas, and I’ve explored quite a few. Overcoming the inertia surrounding this one has been the main obstacle, and I’m glad people are finally taking a wider view of the park.
As I’ve repeated many times, I think there
is
a very specific place where it might have been buried, beside the fence that runs between the parking lot and the golf course, impossible to view on Google. All I’ve asked is that someone take a look. To insist that “there’s no place to dig in the parking lot” when you’ve never been there and can’t get a good view of it is absurd.
As for the golf course, I said near, not on. If you find any other large sweeps of sand in Hermann Park, let me know. But you seem too busy investigating things that weren’t there at the time, or ever.

Find Herman, navigate around the curved water feature that looks curved when viewed from the sky, step across the street in the direction of his perspective,
see this
now look at this rich assortment of columns
In my best guess to correlate things, see the one column that looks like out of place, it has the uplifted stone slab.  There’s a number of ways to look at it but it’s pretty well narrowed down to having 4 key columns aligned as 1^2-3-4 where a corner is between 1 and 2 which makes a lot of sense as a play on perspective with drawing four columns with a smaller-tall-smaller-smallest.

erexere

First City Tower on 1001 Fannin St. is just up the road from the park entrance.

It’s in downtown, which, while it looks close on a map, isn’t actually all that close.  Also, you can’t get much of a clear view of downtown from most places in Hermann Park since it’s surrounded by trees and other buildings.

shecrab

I
know
you’re convinced it’s in the CZ, and you have compelling, if not probably solid, reasons. And you have confirmers. But you searched–and found nothing–correct? And you did use a backhoe (or bulldozer) or some such–correct?  And they did dig up most of the CZ and remodel it and still found nothing–correct?
So maybe it’s time for another idea?

+1
(I like that column with the indented top Erexere. We need to be meticulous about dating things though. I’m not sure what that building is or how long it’s been there…?)

Everything I’m seeing leads me to the area around Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade. I’m still working on it but definitely looking for other ideas.
Perhaps some of our Houston diggers could tell us about some of the areas around the Colonnade that they searched?

Personally, I am all for new folks and new ideas but….
hospitals, octopi, blimps, whales, Batalstar Gallactica, Pac Man, shadows, almanacs, geometric/trigonomic formulas, etc…
I suppose it is boo hoo to me also because Things Change Over Time….plain (or plane if you prefer to search near the airport) and simple ( which not coincidentally rhymes with pimple and if you search near the airport, there is an Acme {sounds a lot like acne} factory.)
I too believe we have honed in on the general methods for finding these things….yet still find myself

Unknown

Unknown:
But I’m tired of repeating myself, finally.  I just hate to see you waste so much time on a seriously flawed train of thought.

Bigmattyh said:
Sigh….
Don’t you feel like you’re just wasting your time here? I’ve tried, you’re trying, others have tried. He doesn’t GET it.
Let him go dig. When he has enough empty holes, he will stop.
The chaff will blow away in the wind.

Surely you’ve heard the phrase “King of the Jungle” before.  It isn’t reserved for one specific lion.  It’s just used as a general term to describe a status of being above all others.  Lions are generally thought of as the most fearsome predators in the wild.
Please be understanding enough to see that I’m referring to a class distinction where it’s not about one specific blimp being the biggest of all the blimps.  This is just a general idea that recognizes Blimps/Airships as a bigger than the rest of flying type vehicles.  Whales are considered among the largest class of sea born creatures.  Some whales are bigger than others.
I hope that helps.

shecrab

Bigmattyh said:
Sigh….
Don’t you feel like you’re just wasting your time here? I’ve tried, you’re trying, others have tried. He doesn’t GET it.
Let him go dig. When he has enough empty holes, he will stop.
The chaff will blow away in the wind.

I thought you said you don’t lobby against others here…

erexere

Surely you’ve heard the phrase “King of the Jungle” before.  It isn’t reserved for one specific lion.  It’s just used as a general term to describe a status of being above all others.  Lions are generally thought of as the most fearsome predators in the wild.
Please be understanding enough to see that I’m referring to a class distinction where it’s not about one specific blimp being the biggest of all the blimps.  This is just a general idea that recognizes Blimps/Airships as a bigger than the rest of flying type vehicles.  Whales are considered among the largest class of sea born creatures.  Some whales are bigger than others.
I hope that helps.

I totally understand  the concept of “King of the Jungle”  a phrase in common use, as is King of the Beasts…
however King of the Sea isn’t and when used , is simply refering to Triton, Poseidon or Neputune.  That’s not to say someone didnt use the phrase at one time or another to mean a whale, its just not a common usage so therefore I don’t beleive the connection. The same is true for Airship, its just not considered “King of the skies”. Its a  not anything I would consider a vailid connection

Oh, i see, you just dont understand the connection…
A general hierarchical reference being applied across realms shouldnt be that hard to understand.
Maybe we shouldnt consider what commonality a camel has with a whale.  A hump back.  Lol

indeed – humpback could be associated with whale,
however , it is less of a stretch to simply associate the camel and rhino with the children’s zoo and the large pole with the ball on top with The Houston statue and reflecting pool and I find my self in Hermann Park,
The quote -being an added but unnecessary confirmation for Hermann
I read Wilhouses Ideas with as much skepticism as I read yours. Yet as I follow along his ideas I see confirmer after confirmer.
With your ideas on houston I basically see wild ass guessing.
I think you tend to over complicate what I believe is a very straightfoward hunt.
but if you can go dig up a casque go for it.

You make a case for the necessity to be exactly right all the time.  I’m brainstorming and adding ideas to the mix.  Youve done a subpar job yourself at debunking my suggestions.  You acquiesce on the whale/camel comparison and then you sweep Melville under the rug.  Newsflash:  people generally associate Melville with what?  A whale.  My wild ass guessing is a simple process of finding a pattern, which doesnt mean ive only found one thing to demonstrate my view, it means ive found MORE than one thing and that my friend is called a correllation.  If it doesnt fit beyond that then lets move on.

Unknown

Unknown:
The WFL base was closed in 1972 and placed in “caretaker” status. Four of the remaining five WWI frame buildings west of the hangar were burned as training exercises for nearby rural volunteer fire departments. Goodyear airships were maintained at the new hangar in Spring, Texas.

Unknown

Unknown:
In his novel The Octopus, published in 1901, the American writer Frank Norris dramatized a late-nineteenth century confrontation between Californian farmers and the Southern Pacific Railroad, renamed in his book the Pacific and South Western (P. & S.W.R.R.). The ‘octopus’ of the title is the railroad itself. Here it is worth mentioning that when organic metaphors are applied to the railway they do not necessarily draw only on the human body. Spider’s webs were an obvious image for railway systems, and in a cartoon of 1849 George Hudson, the ‘Railway King’, is shown as a singularly corpulent and unappealing spider crouching at the centre of his network of lines. The spider imagery is almost invariably negative at some level, and so is the image of the octopus, which is also found in references to railways from the 1840s. Octopuses were perceived as a life form low down the evolutionary scale; they were also visually unappealing and were assumed to have an unpleasant life style which drew from the circulatory systems of healthy organisms rather than contributing to it. That was certainly the view which many took of Hudson. Such imagery could be used in a relatively neutral way: in a 1913 book for children, The Wonders of the Modern Railway, there is a reference to the railway ‘spread[ing] its giant tentacles across the face of a country’, but generally speaking tentacles strangled rather than sustained. To draw a parallel between the railway and a primitive life form such as the octopus was to do the former no favours. Such was certainly Norris’s intention.

According to this history of Goodyear, there was just ONE active blimp field after 1972,
That’s an important distinction.  Being just 20 miles from Downtown Houston, I think this is an important landmark feature to have as a consideration, but not as a point to ignore Hermann Park’s significant features.  Just bear in mind that blimps were real and had a significant presence in the sky in the years of 1980-81.  The star in the image does have the same pattern as the rear view of a blimp’s wing pattern.  There is nothing wrong with saying a blimp is like a whale in the sky.  When I consider the verse without knowing that “tower of strongest delight” is a Pierre quote, I see an alternative logic where “tower of strongest delight” = Sun = good*, December = 12th month = year, “3 winged and slight” = arrow, and “falling gently” together make me think “Good Year Blimp”.  Although I know this isn’t the most likeable method to make a connection, I want to add that “delight” is a sloppy homophone for “daylight”.
*Plato.
– random musings – I fell asleep thinking about whales and galactic sized octopi…i couldnt decide if the image was about BSG or a Frank Norris Vs Herman Melville death match…then woke up this morning and read about the St. Augustine Monster…
Expanding on this idea for a moment, specifically bringing a literary reference evoked by just two wild ass elements 982 Locomotive and Creatures, Ralph Harrington (1999) comments,
I wonder if Preiss toyed with the idea of a battle between sea monsters.  Does that notion help draw us to something relatable in the park?  Any zoo creatures known to battle often?  Rhinos? Apes? Llamas spitting?… Or any giant battles like the monument to Dowling and his small regiment vs an army of 5000?  When Preiss uses the small of scale reference you cant deny it also refers to something huge as the origin of reference.  Jumping to the small train vs 982 is our most immediate notion, but why not consider others?  Lets have fun with this and expand our view, apply a deeper understanding and appreciation for Preiss’ capacity to have created a wonderous challenge.
Thats a terrible segue to my next musing, how about 3 winged and slight as a reference to Moby Dick?  The humpback whale has two large pectoral fins and a tail fluke, 3 wings.  The word slight is unusual in this application as a whale is a large creature but slight usually means thin or small.  It has a secondary application as a kind of insult, such as calling someone an a$$hole or a dick.  That might suffice as our Moby Dick reference and an indication of Preiss’ sense of humor.

erexere

You make a case for the necessity to be exactly right all the time.and then you sweep Melville under the rug.  Newsflash:  people generally associate Melville with what?  A whale.

Only when looking for a casque.
Nonsense Melville is a valid site confirmer and most site confirmers are redundant. (as in we’ve already found the site.)
Thanks for that newsflash and as I recall, years ago when The Melville Quote association was made  we spent lots of time considering it and then deciding it was simply a reference to Hermann and really had nothing to do with Moby Dick.
the goal is to get closer to a casque and your methodology of random association might work for you. But for me, I read every word that comes across this forum and consider all of it. It becomes frustrating weeding out concise theories from extemporaneous word association.
Sometimes its almost like you are trolling.

To which specific word associations are you referring?  The homophone of delight to daylight?  I am not trolling and you know that.  You have made your difference in opinion clear, dont resort to calling me a troll.  Have i called you anything inappropriate?  Lets be clear so this discourse doesnt become trollish.
The issue of some clues being redundant is not resolveable without a proven casque discovery.  You can keep those decisive remarks to each specific casque and the methodology applied to them.  Applying the same method to another casque is your personal system and I applaud you for it.  Berating me by calling my efforts trollish only because they are based on a different approach isnt exactly cool.

erexere

To which specific word associations are you referring?  The homophone of delight to daylight?  I am not trolling and you know that.  You have made your difference in opinion clear, dont resort to calling me a troll.  Have i called you anything inappropriate?  Lets be clear so this discourse doesnt become trollish.
The issue of some clues being redundant is not resolveable without a proven casque discovery.  You can keep those decisive remarks to each specific casque and the methodology applied to them.  Applying the same method to another casque is your personal system and I applaud you for it.  Berating me by calling my efforts trollish only because they are based on a different approach isnt exactly cool.

Apologys! I do not believe you are trolling , I was trying to describe what it was like sometimes going through the associated ideas. Sometimes they seem spot on but sometimes they seem so far-fetched I wonder if you are being humorous or satirical.
mea culpa

erexere

To which specific word associations are you referring?

BSG-starbuck melville-Herman-Whale-Blimp-Shenandoah etc.

Thanks, im also sorry.  For all we know this solution is a fluke…both the statistical anomaly and the whale’s tale..tail.
I think I might order that Byron Preiss book, The first crazy word book: Verbs.
I really only landed on the Shenandoah as I dug for more information on the Lillian Schnitzer memorial ar the Garden Center.  No word associations with that, just a record from an exhibit at the Smithsonian.  I have a pet theory that Preiss utilized the Smithsonian in his research.  The relationship to King of the Jungle is also a pet theory.  The sad story about the Boy in the Bubble from the Texas town of Shenandoah was famously known for having a reoccuring battle with the imaginary King of the Germs.  I recall having some interest in that news back in 1980.  It was a pretty sad situation for him.  (i know, this just looks like another distant tangent…but its just old news and backstory.)

erexere

I thought you said you don’t lobby against others here…

It’s not lobbying against anything. It’s just stating facts, Eric. You don’t get it. You continue to propose theories that get wilder as they get further from the known. But that’s your problem. When you’ve dug enough holes and come up empty enough times, you’ll quit. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not telling anyone to ostracize you, or even criticize you. You wouldn’t listen anyway.

Okay shecrab…telling folks to expect me to go away is just a neutral statement then?
It just seems odd and shows a lack pf human compassion that you think its okay to go around telling people that someone has been around long enough…im not saying that about you am I?

Goonie68

Apparently Hermann park was not the only park with a Lion drinking fountain and a train. Dennis the Menace Park in Monterey Ca (for the record I am not saying this a casques location, just thought it was interestinghttps to see the same things in this park)
https://ibb.co/Hzs1hpc
History of Dennis the Menace Park
https://youtu.be/U0uaigqLTXk
via @YouTube

The lion drinking fountains were actually very popular in parks throughout the US.

MrBackstop

Let me throw a few more observtions on this one.
The sand dunes in the back are two things, the tan color represents the burned-out look of the park when BP was there. The grassy areas were not well maintained and looked especially bad in the Houston Gardens. Those 3 blueish-colored dunes in the back (2 small ones and 1 tall one in the middle) are the Mecom Fountain.
Just to the right of that in the image is a shorter column on a slab of concrete with a blue shape next to that. The column is the Pioneer Memorial Obelisk and the blue shape is the cascading water of the Reflecting Pool.
You notice the number “2” in the tree leaves? That is to give credit to Sam Houston for being the Governor of 2 different states.
The train tracks on the brick indicate the treasure is outside of the train tracks in the park.
The curve on the stone at the bottom indicates the jewel is south of Fannin Street.
The bottom of the Rhino column has 2 rings indicating they are the second set of columns after Miller Outdoor Theatre was built.
The bottom of the Globe column has 1 ring indicating they are the original columns from the Theatre.
The tan colored dune on the far right has been mentioned to look like one of Lion Water fountains in the park. When I turn it sideways it looks more like a horse to me and I believe it is there to represent Sam Houston’s horse on the monument. Of course it could be Hermann’s horse Leo as well.
The larger odd shaped stone on the ground at the base of the Camel Column ( Miller Hill ) has been mentioned by someone long ago ( I believe Whiterabbit) to look like the anchor stones for the Miller Outdoor Theatre. The smaller odd shaped stone is the trapezoidal base that the Atropos Key is mounted on.
That’s all got for now, got to get back to work. Saturdays are rockin’ at Backstop Sports.

Backstop, this is interesting stuff. What are you backing this info up with?

Just my study of the puzzles and how I interpret meanings in conjunction with the Verses. I know BP was a master puzzle maker by just studying this stuff over the last month. I am completely immersed in the challenge of trying to interpret the words with the artwork and all the hidden messages.

MrBackstop

Just my study of the puzzles and how I interpret meanings in conjunction with the Verses. I know BP was a master puzzle maker by just studying this stuff over the last month. I am completely immersed in the challenge of trying to interpret the words with the artwork and all the hidden messages.

On the base of the column in the foreground near the jewel are some numbers. I believe them to be 5380 5 or possibly 5380.5. There is also possibly a G.
What are your thoughts on that?

MrBackstop

More thoughts on this Image and why I like the Colonnade.
Through the wood
No lion fears
The word wood instead of woods always caught my attention and then erecexere confirmed my thought about Atropos Key. That statue was donated by Patricia Woodward. And just for fun instead of thinking of a real lion or the lion water fountains, Charles Hermann, when he died, had a horse named Leo. So his horse certainly wouldn’t have been fearful of an artistic statue.
In the sky the water veers
After you’ve gone through the wood and over the camel hump (Miller Hill) the Mecom Fountain comes into view.
And here is what I call the KEY that gets me to the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade:
Small of scale
Step across
This is referring to the Museum of Natural Science. You couldn’t find a smaller scale of History than a museum. The millions of years that are documented in that building are massive and cover the world in comparison to that small building. Step across to the Colonnade.
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
You should still be able to keep your eyes on the Reflection Pool (perspective) while also being able to see the Pioneer Obelisk in the middle of the four fountains surrounding it.
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
This is the piece of land the Colonnade is on. It is small, split into various shapes by the side walks and has 3 triangular landscape beds (wings).
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
This is in reference to the star above the globe in Image 8. I see the top opening of the Colonnade as the globe on the front column. The star is also a Cross. And if you look into the background, between the buildings on the other side of the Colonnade you can see the Tower of St. Paul’s which has a Cross on top.
Falls gently
In December night
Knowing that the Colonnade is constructed from the original columns of Miller Outdoor Theatre leads me to the conclusion that this refers to the closing of the season at the theatre. The “curtain falls” on the season. I know that currently the season runs from March-October but I believe at one time in the original theater the curtain fell in December.
Looking back from treasure
ground
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds
I believe the treasure ground could be inside the landscape wing closest to the damaged or roughed up column in the Colonnade next to it, or perhaps on the outside of that part of the sidewalk area next to the what’re the Colonnade base and circular pavers create a triangular shape in the sidewalk. I wish I had a more exact target but without being there I need help figuring this part out.
As for There’s a spout! A whistle sounds….I understand that miniature train whistle can be heard from all over the park. But notice the exclamation point after “spout!” This is in reference to the Sam Houston statue where Sam is pointing toward something and Spouting out an order Spouting out information to his troops. This would work with the phrase “Looking back from treasure ground, There’s the spout!”
That’s why I’m in the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade for my solve.

Bump, here it is again.

Seems well thought out,
when are you digging?

I won’t be going to Houston any time soon so I’ve been talking to the Doghouse. He is checking out a couple spots soon. Hopefully somebody can help nail down a smaller target. Unless there is a column that is damaged or has some damage like the one in Image 8 then there are few areas to poke around.

Mr. Backstop,
Its.good to see your take on the puzzle.
The three most difficult things I’ve had to contend with are:
1) not being on site or having a home grown familiarity with Houston puts me at a serious disadvantage. Also, site changes over the past 40 years, and not all of them well documented
2) getting too tangled up in details that a person like Preiss, having just traveled there for a brief time, would likely not be aware of the minutia that intensive Googling has brought to my attention
3) getting down to business, knowing how the Fair Folk of each specific origin would interact with each setting.
I believe No.3 is the overall winner for most deserving of our attention. The Secret is truly difficult because we don’t start at the right place with the right mindset. Thinking like a Peri, sitting on a pier block, watching the rain bounce off the high pitched roof, reading a bit of Pierre, and looking back through a peri-scope is probably the sort of thing Priess had in mind…

JoshCornell1

that is brtal…there is no logic to it…small of scale step across the museum? wtf? no. just no.
how you think that is better than my solve is insane…dog…just go probe around my spot.

Josh, its totally logical just as your solve may be totally logical. So do you just think my thought on the museum is too deep of a thought or that BP just wasn’t that clever? And you gotta admit, nobody has mentioned that the spout! could be and probably is Sam Houston’s monument.

I don’t think Sam is a spout.
A spout is a mouth, like the pour spout of a tea pot, allowing passage through. “Through the wood” pairs nicely if you’re talking about seeing a point through the Woodward’s Atropos’ 4-equal side length mouth.

erexere

I don’t think Sam is a spout.
A spout is a mouth, like the pour spout of a tea pot, allowing passage through. “Through the wood” pairs nicely if you’re talking about seeing a point through the Woodward’s Atropos’ 4-equal side length mouth.

I agree, a spout would be a from a whale, a dolphin, a whistle (usually steam), a stack on a locomotive, a fountain, a twister, a drain connected to a gutter…

From Dictionary.com
Verb
spout – (informal) to utter (a stream of words) on a subject, often at length
Have you guys never heard anyone ask: “What’s he spouting off about?”
or anyone say “She started spouting out orders to everybody” (my old boss used to do this by the way).
Or maybe I’m just showing my age. I use the term spout a lot.

Let me throw a few more observtions on this one.
The sand dunes in the back are two things, the tan color represents the burned-out look of the park when BP was there. The grassy areas were not well maintained and looked especially bad in the Houston Gardens. Those 3 blueish-colored dunes in the back (2 small ones and 1 tall one in the middle) are the Mecom Fountain.
Just to the right of that in the image is a shorter column on a slab of concrete with a blue shape next to that. The column is the Pioneer Memorial Obelisk and the blue shape is the cascading water of the Reflecting Pool.
You notice the number “2” in the tree leaves? That is to give credit to Sam Houston for being the Governor of 2 different states.
The train tracks on the brick indicate the treasure is outside of the train tracks in the park.
The curve on the stone at the bottom indicates the jewel is south of Fannin Street.
The bottom of the Rhino column has 2 rings indicating they are the second set of columns after Miller Outdoor Theatre was built.
The bottom of the Globe column has 1 ring indicating they are the original columns from the Theatre.
The tan colored dune on the far right has been mentioned to look like one of Lion Water fountains in the park. When I turn it sideways it looks more like a horse to me and I believe it is there to represent Sam Houston’s horse on the monument. Of course it could be Hermann’s horse Leo as well.
The larger odd shaped stone on the ground at the base of the Camel Column ( Miller Hill ) has been mentioned by someone long ago ( I believe Whiterabbit) to look like the anchor stones for the Miller Outdoor Theatre. The smaller odd shaped stone is the trapezoidal base that the Atropos Key is mounted on.
That’s all got for now, got to get back to work. Saturdays are rockin’ at Backstop Sports.

Here are a few current pictures from Hermann Park.
An interesting tower shaped item:
two mounds of sand:
Star shaped flower bed:
A heart stopper in the grass:
three winged awning:
four alike (supporting the three winged awning:
small of scale train track (whistle) in view of the sand bunkers:
grassy area at the end of white rabbit’s curved track in the parking lot:
Fortress north???
Disclaimer: no holes were dug or casques damaged during the production of these photos

Okay, im good with the power outlet idea.
Now tell me, which identifies with a steam whistle better, water or power?

Choice

Did radio station 95.7 the Kick (KIKK) have any significance to Houston historically?
The branch the number is hanging off of may be Southwest FWY.

“Kick FM” was a long-time mainstay and one of the top stations for years, from the early ‘70s until it changed format in the mid-90s. It simulcasted with KIKK-AM 650, which is daytime only, until it switched to news. I remember Pam Ivy as one of the DJs, and they had a pair in the morning who was hysterical.
The problem is that Houston had about 30 radio stations around 1980, and 95.7 wasn’t unique to Houston, so why single it out?
As for the SW freeway, I uploaded a comparison of the branch to the southbound Fannin exit a couple years ago. It’s a perfect match, and Fannin is one way straight to Hermann Park.

A couple corrections.
It went by KIKK 96 FM, not KIKK FM, although it was still pronounced “kick”.
It became KIKK with the format change in 1966, not the ‘70s.

Did radio station 95.7 the Kick (KIKK) have any significance to Houston historically?
The branch the number is hanging off of may be Southwest FWY.

Hello everyone. I am running out of time so I shall make this quick.
Picture 8: Phoenix, Arizona.
My notes (in a Word document so you can see the photos):
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~cabra004/notesP8.doc
Gotta go, it’s snowing and traffic is heinous. I am in Minneapolis if you need to have someone poke around the cherry in the spoon. By the way, there are several buildings here that are ‘castles.’
Cheers.

Unknown

Unknown:
Also a fox and perhaps an Oryx, I forget.
wilhouse

<----- lived there long ago but have since moved out...

Ha! Fox!…
BTW, it does turn out that there is still an Arabian Fox exhibit in the CZ.
wilhouse

forest_blight

Is “Preiss” really pronounced “Prius”? I’ve always thought it was said as “Price.”
It is darned annoying that they claim a Reddit user “resurrected” this hunt a year ago. Please. We’ve been at this for far longer.

I’m going to weigh in with the “Price” camp.
I know I am not the “we” you speak of as I was only introduced to the hunt a little less than 3 years ago on SomethingAwful, but I wouldn’t get too sore over a little misinformation from blog.chron.com. And now that I’m done complaining about how he pronounces “Preiss”, let’s also not worry that he gives a nod to Reddit for stoking the smoldering ashes of interest in The Secret. Besides, I always appreciate a fresh perspective from someone who has taken the time to not be talking completely out of their ass. I also appreciate raw enthusiasm from people who don’t necessarily know there’s a map of Roanoke Island in Image 3 and a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument in Verse 11, and therefore have decided that it must be buried in Terra Haute, IN.
I also have a general comment, not directed at your remarks or anything, but just a thought as I was typing the above. I enjoy this hunt and talking about it and comparing notes. If someone new to this hunt took the time to put together a Terra Haute theory, they’re at least interested in the subject enough to spend some time on it. I don’t want to snuff out enthusiasm by being some curmudgeon because they didn’t read every post in every thread and are bringing up something that perhaps some of us who have been around for a little bit might have heard before. It’s easy to lump a lot of that junk together, but rather than being dismissive, I would like to try to maybe channel that enthusiasm into a direction that doesn’t lead to Terra Haute.

Unknown

Unknown:
A periscope is an instrument for observation over, around or through an object, obstacle or condition that prevents direct line-of-sight observation from an observer’s current position.

Random Fair Folk fact: a hippo* invented the Peri-scope. It is used to spy on Djinn through or around obstacles. Recent sightings of these sneaky squatters of Araby have been reported on the peak of the Miller Outdoor Theater.
* Hippolyte Marié-Davy
E: this wasn’t meant to be trollish. Given the recent climate of sorties or whathaveyou depending on people’s mugwumppish stance, I just want to embrace the principle essentials put forth by the book itself. Try to have fun and make sense in the contexts provided.

erexere

I’m not done considering the Atropos Key as “Three winged and slight”, the skeletal sculpture of one of the three sisters of Fate.
The sculpture stands across a step, “step across”.
You can see the 982 from this spot on the hill.
Maybe someone thought of this before, but the diamond shape in the “face” part of the sculpture has four equal length edges.  It’s a fairly tall statue, twice as tall as a person, and if you stand at the right spot on the hill you can see the peak of the Miller Outdoor Theater fit into it’s center, “In the center of four alike”.
When did Indiana Jones come out?
Can you see what I’m thinking?
So, is it possible Preiss thought of adapting the idea used in Raiders of the Lost Ark to make this fun and current?  Indiana Jones places the medallion on a staff of the correct length and places it at the correct point on a miniature replica of an ancient town in order to catch the right angle of the suns light.  The jeweled center focuses the light into a beam that shows him where the ark is buried.  It seems we have many of the same conditions here.  The head of the sculpture looks like rays of the sun.  The center of its face becomes the focal point.  The object of the right height becomes the theater’s peak.  Where we stand to see this alignment becomes the spot to dig.

I posted this back in 2012 before I learned a number of things which later confirmed my proposed questions.
1) on the same page as the Melville quote from Pierre it literally talks about the Three Weird Ones: Atropos is one of those three sisters.
2) Raiders of the Lost Ark came out a year before the book. So it is possible Preiss simulated the method used to hide/find the Lost Ark.
3) you literally look “through the wood” since the name Woodward is on the sculptures plaque and you peer through the diamond space to align the casque spot with the tip of MOT in the four equal sided center.
Here’s my crude mockup of a person laying on their back, looking back through a paper roll tube from treasure ground through the Wood[ward] sculpture and the apex of MOT is seen through four exactly equal sides of it’s diamond face hole:

Parts of this book may hint at Christian symbolism, like this star and cross. I wonder if what falls gently in December night could be starlight…

in response to the photo  which showed the image 8 superimposed on the CZ:
From:
[email protected]
To: wilhouse
Subject: Re: A final plea before it’s too late
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:43:38 EDT
> it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any
> guarantees whatsoever
So to paraphrase BP digging elswhere then the Children’s zoo would probably be a waste of time

What was the specific presentation to BP that the “there” applied?

He said it was the Children’s Zoo–a map superimposed upon Image 8.

Maltedfalcon, I assume you are comparing my correlation to one that wilhouse did in the past.  I read his diagram that roughly depicts an overlay with lots of relative positioning to select points in the CZ but that doesn’t compare to my selected aerial.  Rather than see the whole picture as a map, Ive selected just three objects to play a role in two different perspectives.  First the circular area around Sam Houston attached to the reflecting pool and the star as a relative position in aerial with no rotation.  Next the ground perspective facing south to see the camel is in the exact same placement in a framed perspective as the Sam Houston.  I don’t use the rest of the image, not to say it doesn’t have some significance, to work with my two perspectives.  How can anyone dismiss this congruence?  The next part, where this leads or if this IS where things lead with reect to verse isnt clear to me.  I drew my stick figure with a shovel to only to present the option that the area next to two trees and the rail could be a dig site.

White Rabbit, here you go.
wilhouse

Oh wow, I see what you did, that makes good sense.  Digging up the area behind the building looks sensible from this point of view.  That’s what BP said was a waste of time.  That was a great effort, Wilhouse.

Don’t know if this helps but here’s a map from 1979 that I found. Note that the reflecting pond was much smaller back then.
White Rabbit, yes, Preiss responded right away that digging there was NOT a waste of time.
wilhouse

and for those who never read the entirety of my posts, just to prove I was serious, here’s how I dug in the CZ.
wilhouse

If the picture is a map and the verse is directions, then the verse gets you into the CZ and doesn’t get you out.  That was why I centered around the CZ.  I think there’s a couple places left to dig back there behind where the building was but I don’t know if I can get in there. I haven’t been successful in hooking up with the zoo director, though he once told me that I’d be welcomed back.
Honestly, burying something in a state park, (Hermann Park), even at night, in Houston, is a good way to get shot. Hiding out in the CZ late at night, which was open and free in 1982, and mostly dark, would have been pretty easy, especially on the outskirts.  I’m told the back gate wasn’t even closed at night and the zoo caretakers only came around to check things out in the evening. They were pretty understaffed, but after putting the animals away at night no one went back there.
Again, since I never figurered out what the 4 alike was, I am alway open to new thoughts. I’d be happy to post all my old photos again on flicker or somewhere if someone really wants to spend the time to look at them.  I posted them before  but I don’t know if they’re still active.
wilhouse

The 1979 pdf map didnt download for me.  Is that still available?
I havent caught on to the train’s layout yet.  The 982 was stationary and relocated, but there is an active rail that passes near the Houston monument rright?

wilhouse

If the picture is a map and the verse is directions, then the verse gets you into the CZ and doesn’t get you out.

erexere

That was a great effort

Thanks for the info wilhouse. (I think the verse does get you out though. I’ve tried to show how Pierre and the “center” gets you out. I haven’t given up on this one yet.)
+1

Do you get on the train inside the park and then loop in and around the zoo?  Then it would make sense that the verse contains zoo related items.

Sent you the file separately.
wilhouse

maltedfalcon

in response to the photo  which showed the image 8 superimposed on the CZ:
> it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any
> guarantees whatsoever

It would be helpful to see what he was commenting on. Personally I think seeking with hope is never a waste of time. Perhaps that’s all he meant. Maybe he was making a pun on “tees”. Who knows.
I still don’t understand how people square their assurance about this one with their ambivalence about St Louis. Doesn’t that make Montreal a waste of time?

Thx W.
I didn’t know there was a fountain just behind when looking south towards Sam.  Why can’t the spout be that of the Mecom fountain?  Looks promising somewhere in that grove of trees off to the side by the street between.  I want to think of the children’s zoo as a starting place with the animal head theme being prominent in the image.

check my post earlier for what I can find in the trees:
Here’s a link to train 982 in houston
http://www.rypn.org/TRPA/http://www.ci. … tory3.html
I’m going to try to take a drive out there this weekend.
Picture 8 seems to hold promise – animals (zoo) waterspout
also, on the stones, by the waterspout, could the crosshatching be rail road tracks?
In the tree, on the left side, there looks like a number 8.  In the tree, there is clearly a 95.  in the right side, there looks like a 9 and maybe a 6 (96) or 9E.  at the top of the tree, there is a space that looks like an N or S or Z or 2.  Or maybe I am just seeing things.
wilhouse

a couple comments to Egberts post (I have the book and can get a clear picture of it)
what looks like a modern art sculpture is the side of the dune.  I don’t know if it’s intentional or not.
There is a big granite globe in the park that looks similar to the globe in the picture.
There is a split stone on the left and grey stones vs. tan stones.  I can’t see a meaning, but perhaps when I go there I can look around.

Here is an excerpt from a travel site.  There’s a sundial there.
Hermann Park, three miles south of downtown, is a pleasant green space with its own Japanese meditation garden. Exhibits on natural history at its excellent Houston Museum of Natural Science (Mon–Sat 9am–6pm, Sun 11am–6pm; $4, free Thurs 9am–noon) include the recently renovated Hall of Earth Science, with its fascinating spangly array of gems and minerals. The Cockrell Butterfly Center (additional $3), is a giant three-story greenhouse where you can walk among lurid exotic butterflies as they flutter around an artificial waterfall, and even watch them emerge from their cocoons. There’s also an IMAX theater (hourly Mon–Thurs 10am–8pm, Fri & Sat 10am–10pm, Sun noon–8pm; $6), a stunning gem collection, a good coffee shop and a sundial fountain lapping a map of the Texas coastline. The park is best avoided at night.

It’s the c o ckerell butterfly exhibit.

Unknown

Unknown:
…..and a partridge in a pear tree

LOL-
Here is an interesting blown up image from the Djinn’s spout …do you see a skull?  ???

Unknown

Unknown:
Now we have 3 acres, 1 llama, 2 goats, 2 rabbits, 4 chickens, 2 cats, 2 dogs, and a lizard.

…..and a partridge in a pear tree

karleen

Back of the book is everything – image confirmations in Hermann Park.
https://youtu.be/yfnsOESVvRU

Hey Karleen, entertaining video. I like to point out the image 3-like horns on that doctor carrying a saw and golf bag.
Searching the forum for Tin man resulted in WhiteRabbit’s post. Salute.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=771&start=305

Unknown

Unknown:
I don’t think there’s anything extraordinary about it.

That’s kind of my point. I see it as very important being used to indicate the “spouting of an order” from Sam Houston and not a physical object.
As I continue to narrow down my target, I also continue to try to find reasons to get away from it. I thank George for helping me go at the solves in this manner.
I’m genuinely curious as to what other reasons members have for “spout!” in their solves.

In Melville’s Moby Dick, the excitement that would go with spotting the spout would go with winning Ahab’s gold doubloon. I’ve thought it was a good parallel to finding the hole on top of Atropos.

forest_blight

One could scroll right, but it was easy for me to simply resize them (see above). I’ll also add these to the GPR thread.

Well, I had no scroll bar on the bottom of my screen, and could not for the life of me see the whole picture, so I appreciate the resizing!!
wilhouse

I went to the zoo today. I am now known there as the “crazy guy looking for treasure”.  I’m not so sure that that’s too far off…
I wanted to test out my theory on the stitching by the djinn.
Take a look at the spout steps pictures:
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEMmbdmzaNmFH
These steps lead up to a curved area that now has fencing around it, but in 1982 was all open.  You can see through a hole in the slats that there’s two return pipes, or  spouts, and rocks.  Water originally came down the rocks like a waterfall.
Note that there are 6 steps leading to the spout, just like there are 6 “stiches” leading to the spout in the picture.   Note that dictionary.com defines spout as “A tube, mouth, or pipe through which liquid is released or discharged”
If you stand next to the steps, to your left is the concession stand, a tower of delights.
wilhouse

Doghousereiley

Houston is my main area of searching.
but there does not seem to be really anything to discuss.
For those who think that the casque was buried in the children’s zoo then the casque is gone and the hunt is over
For those who do not, then there is really nothing let to do but poke holes.
For the other nine The Japanese version was a big revealer but most ignore those clues and seem to drift back to the old theories than incorporate the Japanese clues
now I only question some of the verse image pairings. Some image verse pairings are rather solid, almost too solid I say for those that seem solid I do question why they haven’t been found.
but then I think verse 1 image 8 is solid and I have poked a thousand probe holes in Herman park.
It is mind boggling how massive a small patch of land can be when you try to probe every 5 inches 2 feet deep

I think the goal here is to figure out what these lines are referring to:
In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
I looked and looked but either I was off base or these clues are gone. Maybe try to find old photos, or do some research in a local library.
For the record, I think this could have been 4 picnic tables.

Checking in. Who is in the Atropos Key camp?

erexere

Checking in. Who is in the Atropos Key camp?

What specifically are you referring to?

I’m referring to Atropos Key as the focal point for several lines of the verse, and however the casque was hidden is completely dependent on the sculpture location.

erexere

I’m referring to Atropos Key as the focal point for several lines of the verse, and however the casque was hidden is completely dependent on the sculpture location.

I remember that now. 2 issues.
1. The hill was regraded.
2. There is limited visibility to the sculptue.

Limited visibility? I thought it would be prominent at the top of its hill.
Yeah, regarding of the hill really throws.a wrench into things.

erexere

Limited visibility? I thought it would be prominent at the top of its hill.
Yeah, regarding of the hill really throws.a wrench into things.

The Atropos Key is not nearly as significant as you might be thinking. While it is a cool sculpture, it is tiny in comparison to the Miller Theater. You can see it in Google Street View, mostly from the north side of the hill.
Even the Theater is tough to see once you move away from it because of the trees. Granted the landscape has changed in the past 37 years, but there have always been trees.

Here’s a list of potential spots for the cask, some of which I have partly investigated, one fully, some can’t be:
Possible cask locations in the zoo:
description
reason for potential location
result
Circular area in center of 4 compounds
center of 4
covered with concrete
Area around asia compound
falls gently in dec / image 8
not investigated
Elf fountain
there’s the spout
not there
By left globe light
image 8
covered with concrete
By right globe light
image 8
partly investigated
Circular area by concession stand
image 8
partly investigated
Dirt area between CS and spout
image 8
partly investigated
the reason some places are partly investigated are because the dirt is so hard and there are so many roots, that it is not possible to dig the whole area up in one try. However, using the list, I will try and systematically eliminate places.  The spots covered in concrete I have submitted to Preiss as possible locations, however, he says he can not answer me until he has retrieved the information from the vault.
wilhouse

intrigued

Yes, that helps.  Do you have any pictures of the entrance to the old CZ–whether old or current ones from your trips?  I understand where it is in the zoo but seeing some pictures of that area might help spark new ideas…

Wilhouse–Any luck getting a picture like this?  Is the aquatunnel visible through the entrance?

I emailed FB some shots that might help.  The aqua tunnel entrance is just past the CZ entrance (there’s two entrances to the CZ, one on each side of the aqua tunnel. There’s two entrances to the aquatunnel, one on each side of it.) Either entrance to the tunnel can be seen from it’s entrance to the CZ, as it’s probably only about 5 feet away.
wilhouse

btw, if anyone can narrow down the location to a foot or so, I will go out and dig that foot up that day, and the locator will receive a beautiful gift for their contribution (potentially part of the crushed casque!!)
wilhouse

Posted for wilhouse. More on the way…
I can provide greater detail for other parts of the upper photo as well, if anyone is interested.

More pictures from wilhouse…
Entrance is on the left:

A shot of a tree whose leaves look like those in the Image 8:
A shot of the aquatunnel entrance, that can be seen from the CZ entrance:

FB – much thanks. more good karma for you
wilhouse

since Egbert found columns identical to the ones in the P, I have always assumed that P8 columns would be the same too. You are right that that is not a good assumption.
As to the verse, we have had many discussions on the four alike part in my house.  Another way to look at it, just to add to the confusion:
In the center of four alike are three things: one small, one slight, one split, all with wings.  Birds or angels or fairies?  You are right, this could be any number of things, but the minimum number would be three if we believe it means three with wings.
the “small of scale step across” has me stumped because it is after the “through the wood”.  if you go through the wood, you have passed the tracks.  if it said INTO the wood, then it would be clearer.  part of this would be easier to understand if we had better photos of what everything looked like in 1981.
thanks for the conversation y’all. it helps bring up new points.
wilhouse

yeah, I know the columns are different…it is quite obvious to see that in the pic of the fountain in my above link…just thinking they may “represent” the columns around the fountain.  The djinn in the P kind of looks like the water spout.
i see what you mean about 3 things with wings, not one thing with 3 wings.  This may be another instance where we are incorrectly reading it according to how we think it should flow.  I mean, one line says “…..four alike”  & then the next 2 lines give us a list of 4 things 1-small 2-split 3-3 winged & 4-slight….but, maybe these two parts dont go together…
I am thinking more like this:
-“small of scale
step across”  =  the miniture trains
-“perspective should not be lost
in the center of four alike”    =  maybe something simple like four trees mentioned numerous times…
-“small, split
three winged and slight”  =  may just be referring to 1,2,3 and/OR 4 seperate things nearby.

maltedfalcon

I guess I am not sure why you are differentiating between Generic Pirate Treasure and “The Secret, A Treasure Hunt”
of course The casque certainly fits the definition under rare and desired.

The casque and key have no real value on their own, and the owner didn’t bury it to save for personal use.

As many already know, my “spout” is the Sam Houston statue. With that in mind I realized what I was seeing in the image when I line up the Sam Houston statue directly in front of the Miller Outdoor Theater stage.
Starting from the right side of Image 8
1. The Rhino Column – George R. Brown Education Center, not only does the building itself look like the Rhino’s eye in the image it also has two rings toward the bottom of the column. I see these as representing George and his brother Herman who are two philanthropists that have donating money all over the Houston area. The GRB is at the entrance to the Houston Zoo (starting point).
2. You would walk passed the 982 engine toward the Miller Outdoor Theater and Atropos Key (The wood No lion fears), and also refer to your 982 book for clues as you continue.
The Secret
was released in September of 1982 according to an interview with Preiss in October of 1982. I believe this part of the verse has those two meanings. And if you don’t agree with me on this, that’s cool. I just believe BP was being clever with his release.
3. Persian man’s head and cover – Clearly the MOT stage. His folded arms create the letter “M” for Miller. The blocks on the ground between the Camel Column and our Persian man are base of Atropos Key and the cement anchors/supports for the MOT roof.
4. The Smoke Spout represents the Sam Houston Monument. Notice the partially curved lines on both sides of the Smoke Spout in Image 8. These are parts of the curves of the round-a-bout surrounding the Monument.
5. The Camel Column – this is the outdoor seating known as Miller Hill for the Miller Outdoor Theater. It looks like a giant camel hump.
6. The 4 smaller Columns in the background are from the old Houston Garden Center.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nvA16kN7SzM/U … G_0476.JPG
7. Globe Column – Mecom Rockwell Colonnade. The Globe on top is the opening of the Colonnade, not an actual round sphere. The Column in Image 8 has dents/pits/damage on it just like a few of the Columns on the Western side of the Colonnade. The columns to build the Colonnade are from the Original MOT. The reason the column has a bell shape is due to the tradition of free musicals put on by the “Theater Under the Stars” called
Bells are Ringing
.
8. Red Ruby – The casque is buried on the corner of Hermann Loop and San Jacinto.
Here’s my key, the casque for the red ruby is buried where the dig spot can be seen from the Sam Houston Monument, Miller Hill and Atropos Key. The dig spot is also lined up with MOT stage. The stitched stone at the bottom is letting us know that the casque is buried outside of the miniature train tracks and the curved stone to the bottom right is Fannin Street….telling us the casque is to the South of Fannin.
The only area that meets this criteria is the corner of San Jacinto and Hermann Loop Dr to the Southwest section of the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade. I believe the red ruby is also a clue that the casque is not buried too far away from one of the Traffic Light posts in that corner of that intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7225623 … bfov%3D100
Now I know there is a lot more info in this puzzle but once you look at an overhead view (Google Earth and the old park maps) and line up the Sam Houston statue with the MOT stage, parts of this image and their meanings come into view. At least that’s how I see it.

Mr B. I use to have many of the same views, although I did have a moment of insanity trying to fit it to a super theme about Battlestar Galactica….damn that viper helmet.
Nowadays I look at how an approach may be inspired. You’ll get different results if you try to breadcrumb. Over the years it’ve become hopeful that each verse line plays an important or supportive roll in the process.
I still think there’s some geometry connection to where the jewel is placed in the painting. The same might be said for where JJP signs.

Sorry, I meant to say curved stone on the bottom left represents Fannin.

Please look at the cap / hat the djinn is wearing in Picture 8, then look at this.
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js … mbdmzaNnmg
wilhouse

wilhouse–
Where is that statue located?  If in Houston, where is it in relation to the present theory?  –Johann

The location where it is now is not the location where it was in 1982.
In 1982, it was in the children’s zoo, directly in front of the auditorium (big black circle in the south end of the children’s zoo in the 1975 map).
If you walked through the center of the childrens zoo (north to south) it would appear like this in 1982:
Enter childrens zoo.  To the right (west) is dwarf cattle (small of scale?). To the left, 2 statues of hawks, one with a wing busted off (3 winged?).  Walk over a bridge (step across?) and you are in the center of the 4 petting zoo compounds, one of which is Asia (the center of 4 alike?). This is where a small (small?) scale Japanese lantern is in the middle of a dirt area (which is now the bricked in circular area).  Walk straight ahead 20 feet and see Brownie the Elf Statue, which is a fountain with water coming out of his hand, in a planter (there’s the spout?).
wilhouse

doghouse i think i know how to triangulate the spot in the woods to right of obelisk…sending you a pm.

Elaborating on the pic shared on fb today.

drunknerds

I noticed your name attached to this solve, before. Much respect.

thanks. I cannot take full credit, as I had the help of two friends from my old Unfiction days who got me to the area, I just sniffed at all the trees. Sometimes determination and brute force will get you to the treasure, but more often it is the combined effort of a group with a range of skills.
(sorry to derail the Image thread. I’m happy to take general convo to private inbox or a social thread — do we have one of those?)

Keep an eye out for any manhole covers.  One just might match the star.

there are manhole covers there. they mostly have the Texas star on them, but I’ll check it out.
wilhouse

anyone have any thoughts or ideas on my previous post?
wilhouse

If I used to know what the dots were I forgot. There were no 4 trees that made sense to dig in the middle of.

Oh the trees in the background. No they were gone and the area was changed. Plus it was in the zoo proper so I couldn’t dig there.

wilhouse

The north america contact area was part of the CZ. Along with Asia Africa and South America. Also the reflection pool didn’t look like that in 1982. It was more of a pond without a real concrete border.

Good to know. As far as the reflection pool, I realize it was 50 to 75 ft more north originally without concrete, i still think it was meant to be the clue to get us to Hermann Park. How else do we get there otherwise using just the illustration?
Now that I’m fully understanding things, if the carved post takes u to North America/Asia, there should have been 4 post oak trees (or posts) in or behind North America/Asia that lined up just like the posts in the Illustration 8 background somewhere when you enter the fence (one inside the fence, the other three likely outside the fence like the illustration). From there, the casque would have been somewhere in a 20 ft. radius.
Given that the Cleveland casque dealt with a centaur and was found in the back of the Greek Cultural Gardens, it sure seems like a djinn from Persia would be found in the back of the Asia section to remain consistent.
Strange that you weren’t able to find it there.

Unfortunately, I slowly but surely find myself now starting to doubt my original spot that I’ve hit something and am converting to the ‘Old Timer’ CZ view.
As you can see below along w/ some other items to ponder, the rhino column is irrefutably the bottom portion of the column in the zoo that used to say, “North America.” As some have previously mentioned, why would Preiss put this in Image 8 if you didn’t have to be there in the zoo at some point along the way?
Let me know what you think/agree/disagree w/.
MM

Minotaur_moreno

Unfortunately, I slowly but surely find myself now starting to doubt my original spot that I’ve hit something and am converting to the ‘Old Timer’ CZ view.
As you can see below along w/ some other items to ponder, the rhino column is irrefutably the bottom portion of the column in the zoo that used to say, “North America.” As some have previously mentioned, why would Preiss put this in Image 8 if you didn’t have to be there in the zoo at some point along the way?
Let me know what you think/agree/disagree w/.
MM

The genie’s head is a map overlay of Hermann Park and the right side of the cyclone is Brays Bayou. The left side is Buffalo Bayou.

gManTexas

The genie’s head is a map overlay of Hermann Park and the right side of the cyclone is Brays Bayou. The left side is Buffalo Bayou.

Yeah, Buffalo Bayou is what I should have labeled it. I don’t know that I agree with Brays Bayou, though. I can’t get that to matchup.
I also don’t yet agree about the genie’s head as the map overlay or that Brownie the elf has any significance. Not saying I can’t be convinced with more evidence, though.
MM

Minotaur_moreno

Yeah, Buffalo Bayou is what I should have labeled it. I don’t know that I agree with Brays Bayou, though. I can’t get that to matchup.
I also don’t yet agree about the genie’s head as the map overlay or that Brownie the elf has any significance. Not saying I can’t be convinced with more evidence, though.
MM

See my previous post.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=738&start=915#p137853

gManTexas

See my previous post.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=738&start=915#p137853

I can get the top portion to match-up, but not bottom for Brays, can’t get the djinn, though.
Real Question:
If that pole was in the North American section and not the Children Zoo, with everything we know about the two that were solved, wouldn’t that mean that the casque was in a 20 ft. radius or so of that pole in the North American section and not the Children’s Zoo? Or are all four sections considered part of the Children’s Zoo in the map below?
MM

Minotaur_moreno

I can get the top portion to match-up, but not bottom for Brays, can’t get the djinn, though.
Real Question:
If that pole was in the North America section and not the Children Zoo, with everything we know about the two that were solved, wouldn’t that mean that the casque was in a 20 ft. radius or so of that pole in the North American section and not the Children’s Zoo?
MM

The outline doesn’t really matter. People already figured out Hermann Park.

There were trees that lined up like the image. They were in the area with the dunes a few hundred feet north of the CZ. I posted that image on line.
In this case you didn’t need the image to start the hunt. The image took you to Houston (the lat /long) and the verse took you to the zoo 982.

The north america contact area was part of the CZ. Along with Asia Africa and South America. Also the reflection pool didn’t look like that in 1982. It was more of a pond without a real concrete border.

@Wilhouse ,
In your map below, what do the dots all over (besides the path dots) represent? Are they trees?

wilhouse

There were trees that lined up like the image. They were in the area with the dunes a few hundred feet north of the CZ. I posted that image on line.
In this case you didn’t need the image to start the hunt. The image took you to Houston (the lat /long) and the verse took you to the zoo 982.

Stuuuuuuuupid question: Did you ever try digging in the center of those trees? I would assume so but I can’t recall you saying so.

oh my goodness. this is fascinating. i just spent my entire day reading this post about image 8. it’s amazing. i live in houston too and it intrigues me that there is something out of the ordinary here.
i know i’m a novice but if you do set a date for the dig, i’d like to help!
good luck, wilhouse, i’m sure you’ll be able to crack this one!

Is there a lion with a ball or head in it’s mouth there?

yes, I saw that. There was also a Arabia Temple Crippled Children’s Hospital across the street from the park.
The hospital is rebuilt (a mess). The stables have been relocated.  I have an old address for the stables, it’s about a 1/2 mile from the park.  I plan to go check it out eventually.
these are good clues.  I think we might be able to corner this thing.  I plan to go to the Houston library archives to look at some old pictures of the area.  I have maps from 1993, but you can’t tell anything.
wilhouse

I came to an abstraction that the tall column with the sphere on end could be a pool stick as it strikes the cue ball. This might be far off the rails as a theory, but take a moment and consider some dual purpose options. If we take our task to the nine eight two, which we know well is the 982 train, we could also entertain the abstraction that pool balls are numbered. The task in this case would be to pocket the balls.
I also wondered how we connect the Fair Folk of Araby with Texas in a word based way. How about TEXtile? Tapestries and finely woven rugs or the legendary magic carpet come to mind. A fabric or felt. Pool tables have felt. Roofs have felt. Remember the water veers? The asphalt or tar infused fabric on a roof diverts the water.
Playing pool properly involves knowing how to aim and strike the cue ball correctly so the object ball(s) go where intended. Dots or diamonds on the top edges of the table help a player estimate complex outcomes. A pool table is covered by felt. Pool balls historically were made from ivory, giving this abstraction a little play in terms of exotic animals as trophies.

Well that doesnt work. If you dont see how the presence of the shape of the Terminal Tower in the Cleveland image is an abstraction, described as 1) rotated 180 degrees and 2) full silhouette in negative space, then you’re not understanding how this puzzle works.
If the iconic shape of the Atropos Key sculpture is being captured in the form of 1) a 45 degree rotation, and 2) half-silhouette (possibly Rorschach style), then that at least follows the Cleveland example, although it seems some degree more difficult to perceive.
How about we give this a shot?

erexere

Holding a mirror to an image shouldnt be out of bounds. Thats the basis of my inquiry and though there is a degree of abstraction to that effort it is careless to qualify it as “too abstract” as if there is no basis whatsoever in how the previous puzzles were solved. After Racer declared there is no evidence, I posted a pic of a mirrored roadway in Cleveland. Racer then brushes it off by saying only rotation and a lightbulb are needed. Wrong. It is also mirrored and I showed you all a picture to prove it. Denying that visual proof is careless.
Taking care to clarify the degree of abstraction is important to solving the puzzle. These paintings arent filled with literal matches, abstraction is the root of many key visuals, whether its negative space, under rotation, or a partial outline of a unique type of shape. The degree of that abstraction should be qualified, like the example of the Melville quote where the Weird sisters are mentioned on the same page would be more removed than being in the same paragraph or it would be “too abstract” to expect the clue to be recovered from a different page or chapter. With a visual example, I’m more comfortable taking a 90 or 180 degree rotation than I am with 17 or 23 degree.
I’ve cited the techical difference between the natural “dead-centered” vanishing point and the off-centered edgewise vanishing point and that IS justification for my approach. Inquiry follows evidence and yet I see criticisms that fall far short of being pointed or correct. It would be nice to see alternative conclusions, but to brush off a show of evidence and act like youve found an optimal methodology that ignores important clues is careless.
E: tj, I appreiate your comment about historical evidence. It would be nice to see some more discussion about that and some substance to work with. I’m showing the visual contrast of a sculpture and building shape in Hermann Park as compared to the image using a mirror to privide substance. I think thats about as real as it can get without actually being there in person to see how the whole setting matches up. Maybe someone in Houston can test my hypothesis.

You have taken the level abstraction far far far far beyond the original artists intent. We’re no longer discussing degrees of abstraction when reading your posts, it has steadily become orders of magnitude. Stop getting mad at me for pointing that out. It’s not MY fault that you’re going off into the weeds. Your evidence hasn’t provided any real progress, so don’t act like you’ve solved any great mysteries here. Your abstraction is a distraction.
Additionally, I am here in person on the ground in Houston, TX. I can tell you as a person, on the ground in Houston, TX, that your abstraction is pretty much useless. It is not measurable in any meaningful way in real life. Let’s focus on making progress, and less about vanishing points or whatever other useless abstraction distraction that has nothing to do with any of the previous solutions.
This brings my discussion of this matter to a close.

Euhirudinea

Of the three things mentioned above (looking at the puzzle in a different manner, finding a historical photograph, or relying on institutional memory), my sense is that the one most likely to produce the result we want is the one being least considered. While we may not have all the information we need to be able to precisely locate where the treasure was buried in Chicago, we could still find the Treasure Ground today. The same is true in the Cleveland, only more so since the Treasure Ground was, and remains self-contained. Given those facts, is it so hard to believe that more than a few of the 10 remaining casques are still exactly where Preiss buried them, and that we have all the information we need to find them?

This is such a great point that you brought up. All the information that is needed is present in the verse and image. The problem, at least here in Houston, is that Hermann Park and its surroundings have undergone substantial changes in the past 30+ years. So the issue isn’t that all of the information isn’t present in the clues, it’s that the references they point to, may or may not be there anymore. So, for us, it’ll be important to attempt to travel back in time, as best we can, with historical snapshots. This is the hard part. This is what wilhouse spent much of his time doing.
There is a section of the Julia Ideson Library in downtown Houston has a vast collection of historical maps, photos, architectural drawings and other items. It is part of a special collection. Unfortunately, these collections have not yet been digitized completely. I am going to try to get down there tomorrow and possibly make a phone call to the librarians that curate the collection and discuss Hermann Park and the Zoo next week.
Another interesting set of Houston facts. We tend not to keep things around simply for historical purposes, while unfortunate, many times the economic value of the space is simply overwhelming compared to the cost of keeping around buildings and spaces of considerable age and maintenance cost. The changes that have been made as a result of capital projects in both the downtown and medical center area in the past 5 years, let alone 10, are massive.
Houston is a city that is in a constant state of change, especially its green spaces. There are sections of town that I don’t get to often, and in the span of 1 or 2 years, the area can look dramatically different since the last time I saw it, and I get around quite a bit. The Hermann Park Conservancy which has managed Hermann Park for a number of decades is well-funded by the community and supported and they are always working to improve the use and access to that area, which means change.
Houston is living city, truly unlike any other city in the USA. Yes Chicago, New York, and LA are always changing too, but the pace of change here in Houston is astonishing.

Remember these?
https://youtu.be/vuSlejnid1A

Where is that facepalm meme when I need it

Why do you make such a big deal out of my posts when you dont put anything on the board to evaluate? You’ve shared a lot of words and mentioned some places and ideas about how to go about some alternative or “acceptable” approach, but what that is exactly or some concrete subject of focus has yet to be seen. Please SHARE…or hang out and participate.
People should really work on this and stop talking about facepalm or drawing penises.

lol, any that you can figure out!!
Honestly, I don’t have a good answer for that.
wilhouse

Dero72

OK…
So, I’ll begin by saying that I can’t claim that I’m completely sure about ALL of the elements of this mystery (primarily the latter parts of the verse), but I do feel very confident in the majority of my interpretations. I DO believe that the popular assumption that the search should begin at the 982 train is incorrect, and I believe this mistake is based on a very reasonable misinterpretation of the instructions early in the verse. The ‘fortress’ and ‘friendship’ markers DO matter…a great deal, in fact. These markers tell you WHERE to begin. Looking at the 2 verses that have been solved in Chicago and Clevelan is very instructive. Priess didn’t issue a lot of vague clues. You didn’t have to do a lot of ‘reaching’ to make things fit. Every single thing mentioned was important. All of it pertinent. Nothing was insignificant or ‘not important’, and each line is intimately connected to everything else.
Finally, I’ll say this: everything I’m about to present is simply what I ‘think’ to be the explanation to some of the mystery. I could be very wrong. Better and smarter men and women than me have grappled with this thing for over 30 years. At the very least, I think I may be able to just add a bit more clarity to certain aspects of this thing.
As mentioned before, I was raised in Houston and spent a great deal of time around Hermann Park – all of my life. In my early 20’s, I worked at the Houston Museum Of Natural Science for several years. I spent untold hours all over that park every single day. Hopefully, some of that history can come to bear in this…and maybe, I can add some grains of info that will help.
So, let’s begin:
‘Fortress north
Cold as glass’
– I have no doubt at all about what this is, and it’s very important…as it gives us our very first clue to exactly where we should be physically standing to begin this quest. Many have thought that it represents downtown Houston and the glass buildings in the skyline. Take a look at this picture:
This was downtown Houston in 1980/81. Not an entirely huge amount of ‘glass’ there. You can see the Texas Commerce building is under construction in this picture, and it finally was completed in 1981. From a distance, the skyline was not filled with glass…not enough to strike a visitor like Preiss. It wouldn’t have been an obvious connotation.
BTW, remember that fact the entire time we read any of this man’s verses/clues: Preiss was a VISITOR to the city. As in the 2 mysteries which have already been solved, he would’ve used distinctive landmarks that would’ve jumped out to a tourist, and then supplemented these allusions with descriptive details. In many ways, he uses obvious visual references.
Additionally, a vague ‘downtown’ reference would’ve created a HUGE search area, which would encompass all the area from downtown to Hermann. Again, look to the mysteries which have been solved. Directional clues were compact. Not to mention: downtown as a ‘fortress’? That makes no sense. You have to mentally reach to make that idea come even close to reasonable.
So, what is the ‘fortress’ which marks the northern boundary of where you should be standing?
Look at this picture:
There is your glass fortress…in more ways than one.
The Glassell School of Art stood on an entire city block…an imposing, fortress like structure made up of thousands of glass blocks, which looked like ice cubes. From 1981-1983, I attended this school every single Saturday morning. I won a scholarship to go here and became very familiar with the building. All of us kids joked about the building looking like ice cubes (‘cold as glass’).
But here is what cinches it: look at the pic again. Printed very boldly in blue letters on the front of the building was the name: GLASSELL SCHOOL OF ART. You see it? GLASSell. I’m positive that this is the double entendre that Preiss intended. The glass building LOOKED like ice blocks, and the word ‘glass’ was printed prominently ON THE BUILDING. Everyone knew this building in 1981. It was promoted as a work of art itself, having been built in 1979. The use of the glass blocks scientifically cooled the building. That fact was also widely touted. Preiss would’ve known/heard about it and been impressed. Everyone was. Strong visual clue, here.
So, there you are: Preiss has marked your northern boundary for you…just north of Hermann Park.
‘Friendship south’
– Many have cited their belief that the ‘Friendship Plaza’ location as the marker for this clue, which I am sure is incorrect. Firstly, there were no very prominent markers as to what the pavilion was. I was raised here and I had NO idea what the name of the pavilion was. Yes, I knew there was a pagoda in the park, but we attached no importance to it. Sure, I was an 11 year old kid, and I’m sure if you were to read the sign or marker out front, you could’ve seen what exactly this place was. For this verse, it wasn’t prominent enough. Especially when there was a much more prominent marker for ‘Friendship’ in the area. Here it is:
The statue of the man who was the first President of (and who many consider the father of) Texas, Sam Houston. He personifies ‘Texas’. ‘Texas’ is from the Caddo Indian word “teyshas”, which translates to the word ‘FRIENDS’. No more prominent landmark representing ‘friendship’ can be found in this park. Even the tourist would’ve known this straight away…and you really have to just KNOW that Preiss would never have written a mystery in Hermann Park and NOT include this statue. It is the most recognizable landmark in the area. This is the southern boundary to where you should be STANDING when you begin the quest.
Now, where exactly are you standing? Well, if you are standing at the northern boundary and facing south, the Glassell is at your back. At your front? Well, you’re looking directly at a huge landmark…one that sits in between you and the ‘Friendship’ Sam Houston statue, a little further south. That prominent landmark is the Houston Museum Of Fine Arts. Where do you go from here?
‘Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two’
– Here we see the infamous 982 reference. This no doubt represents the steam locomotive which was parked in front of the Houston Zoo, even further south of the ‘Friendship’ Sam Houston statue. Now, here is where I think the misunderstanding comes in. Read the first lines of the verse again. The northern and southern boundaries establish WHERE YOU BEGIN searching. The fact that you are now being told to ‘take your task’ somewhere else indicates this. I believe the language here is basically telling you, ‘head towards the steam engine/zoo’. Everyone in Houston would’ve known which way that meant. South. Go towards the zoo. Take your task there. ‘Take your task…’ (i.e.) start walking. But where?
‘Through the wood
No lion fears’
– Now, in an area which is parkland, it’s easy to just assume, ‘oh, he just means to walk through the trees…’. But think deeper than that. Why the illusion to a lion? Or the allusion to ‘fear’? First off, lets cross some things off the list:
NO, it isn’t referring to the zoo. I’m pretty sure that lions don’t dig the zoo. It’s like ‘lion jail’. Of course they would have some fear there. And back then (1981), the lions were in cages, not the open environment they built for the lions years later.
NO, it isn’t the park. That just makes no sense. It’s reaching to make a connection that isn’t there. There is no connection between ‘lions’ and the park.
NO, it has nothing to do with those lion water fountains.
Those fountains were all inside of the zoo. That was one of the thrills of going to the zoo back then. Me and my kid sister wanted to get inside and drink out of a lions mouth.
So, what is the wood?
Well, the correlation of a lion and ‘fear’ instantly recalls the cowardly lion from Wizard Of Oz fame. I thought about that. And then I thought of another lion…probably the most popular lion of modern popular culture. This guy:
The MGM lion is a well known lion. The MGM opening is part of popular culture. See that latin phrase written above the lion? “Ars Gratia Artis”. Here’s what it translates to:“Art for art’s sake”. And here we are, standing in front of a building that is in our pathway to the zoo…which just happens to be an Art Museum! ‘Through the wood which no lion fears’…THROUGH the arts museum…which was only one building in 1981…and free to enter.
(BTW – our allusion to the cowardly lion of Wizard of Oz fame may have some merit, after all. Which film studio produced the 1939 film? MGM.
)
SO…we walk through and we come out the opposite entrance (which was operable and very much used back in 1981). We step outside, and what do we see?
I’ll continue in my next post…
jermaine

I needed a break from some of the other puzzles, so I am reading about Houston. Some interesting theories here, as I have been reading the Image 8 thread in its entirety. One thing that caught my eye is the reference to The Wizard of Oz, which someone posted about on the Wiki site:
“I grew up in Houston my whole life. I still reside here. However, I’m 36 but I do remember the original train tunnel. The speakers inside had the reference to wizard of oz and I remember the wizard of oz playing at Miller, because my dad would take me all the time to Hermann park. What I dont know or don’t remember is the tunnel being moved? I know the atropos key was moved.”
This seems like confirmation regarding the train tunnel and possibly moving in that direction. Wilhouse, Fox, or any other old timers here know about this and whether you would have to be on the train or just near the tunnel on foot to hear the announcements? Was this a recording or was this a “scripted” tour recited by the conductor of the small train?

When Miller Hill was relandscaped, Atropos was taken off the base for cleaning and restoration, whether the position if the base was physically moved hasnt been substantiated, but any testimony should be considered. Photographs of its initial installation support that Atropos Key has remained at the Miller Hill. It possibly has been adjusted in position, but whatever the case, had it actually been a factor in locating the casque somewhere on that hill, then it may be deemed a lost cause depending on how heavy equipment had been used in the landscape project.

erexere

When Miller Hill was relandscaped, Atropos was taken off the base for cleaning and restoration, whether the position if the base was physically moved hasnt been substantiated, but any testimony should be considered. Photographs of its initial installation support that Atropos Key has remained at the Miller Hill. It possibly has been adjusted in position, but whatever the case, had it actually been a factor in locating the casque somewhere on that hill, then it may be deemed a lost cause depending on how heavy equipment had been used in the landscape project.

Any thoughts on my question regarding the Wizard of Oz reference and the tunnel? Interestingly, there is also the Oz reference in Verse 11.

From what I remember as a kid in the 80’s, there were speakers in the train depot that would direct you to the train and there were speakers in the tunnel that played music, but the train conductor/driver never spoke. Pretty sure they only had access to the train whistle. The tunnel itself was super ghetto and you could see through it in some spots so I’m sure you could hear whatever was on the speakers if you were outside of it. There are a couple youtube videos someone posted a while back that might even show it.

H-town

From what I remember as a kid in the 80’s, there were speakers in the train depot that would direct you to the train and there were speakers in the tunnel that played music, but the train conductor/driver never spoke. Pretty sure they only had access to the train whistle. The tunnel itself was super ghetto and you could see through it in some spots so I’m sure you could hear whatever was on the speakers if you were outside of it. There are a couple youtube videos someone posted a while back that might even show it.

Thanks for the post.

gManTexas

Any thoughts on my question regarding the Wizard of Oz reference and the tunnel? Interestingly, there is also the Oz reference in Verse 11.

No. As an outsider to Houston, I’m really in backseat mode to what iconic or thematic points would be hinted at by the verse or image.
As for the “Ride the man of oz” reference in verse 11, I think it evokes a few possibilities for image 3, which I won’t go into here. It’s news to me that there was an Oz theme to Hermann Park. I also didn’t know there was a train tunnel. I thought any talk about tunnels was about the aqua-tunnel.
At times I’ve considered some transient themes to play a part in the puzzles. There seems to be an asthetic for thematics like ancient Greece, maybe Oz too.