Sir Eg, any response to this question:
did you ever get an idea of WHEN Preiss buried all the treasures? I remember reading that he did it in a couple days.  When exactly would be a great thing to know.  I assume it was 1982, but maybe not!!
wilhouse

Well, what I gather from speaking with him is that he buried them in 1981 or 1982.  He did things in the following order:
1.  make casques and keys
2.  research locations
3.  bury treasures
4.  create verses
5.  paint pics with JJP
6.  publish book

Well, that’s about the time frame I expected.
wilhouse

The following photo is for entertainment purposes only. It IS photoshopped…but wouldn’t it be nice to be
walking around the Houston Zoo and see this
Wilhouse…this post is for you! Now let’s go dig’n

too funny. Thanks Dave!
wilhouse

Thats the best.

That’s hilarious.

Guys, instead of just trying to find stuff in the images that match real life, try and get the images and the verses together to match real life.
For example, if we agree that verse 1 and image 8 match, if you start at the 928 engine in Hermann park (now across the street from Minutemaid ballpark btw) and work your way around.  There’s nothing in the verse that would take you away from the park .
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
mid-13c., “rich cloth” (often, but not necessarily, bright red), from a shortened form of Old French escarlate “scarlet (color), top-quality fabric” (12c., Modern French écarlate), from Medieval Latin scarlatum “scarlet, cloth of scarlet” (also source of Italian scarlatto, Spanish escarlate), probably via a Middle Eastern source (cf. Arabic siqillat “fine cloth”), from Medieval Greek and ultimately from Late Latin sigillatus “clothes and cloth decorated with small symbols or figures,” literally “sealed,” past participle of sigillare, from the root of sign (n.).

I was aiming for “sky”, but “air” works.
Looking again at the LotJ, “The Ruby out of Araby:  Scarlet of desert sky at dawn.” Looking at the etymology entry on the word ‘scarlet’ yields:
I wonder if the ‘fabric’ context of the word fits with the magic carpet as it relates very well to the hill of the Miller Outdoor Theater, since people generally sit and snuggle on blankets while they enjoy the free show.
http://milleroutdoortheatre.com/seating/

magic carpet:___________::locomotive:track

erexere

magic carpet:___________::locomotive:track

Air?

I wanted to read through the complete threads for both Image 8 and Verse 1 before commenting on this search, but has anyone ever attempted to link either I8 or V1 to other cities? (Full disclosure: while I have spent some time in Texas, all of my visits to Houston have been limited to airport layovers. Digging is frowned upon at IAH!)
Just throwing this thought out there to spark discussion, but that tower with a ball on top of it in I8 always reminds me of the Sunsphere Tower in Knoxville, Tennessee. I actually went to the 1
982
World’s Fair myself when I was a kid, although I was too young to remember anything. Lots of great VHS videos about the Fair have been uploaded to Youtube, though. Be sure to adjust the tracking if you end up diving down the Internet rabbit hole!
http://www.worldsfairphotos.com/knoxvil … aug-82.pdf

Overlapping the image at a perfect 90-degree on the point in the horizon where the dune contacts the edge gives a lot more of a contour match to the Atropos Key sculpture.

it’s funny, but they want this thing found as much as I do.
The zoo director and I spent about an hour going through the image, verse and all the clues with the chief of horticulture, knowing he could completely veto the whole thing. But at the end of it he said “I’ll do whatever you want to support you in this.”
I told the zoo director to go see him privately, after we leave, to find out if he thinks we’re nuts or not. On the other hand, even if he does, as long as he dozes for us, I don’t care…
Pictures as soon as I can.
wilhouse

I still cant believe Wilhouse got someone to bulldoze the entire park for him in search of a small ceramic casque.
You are my hero

Wilhouse, you ARE the man!
You said the zoo people were happy to see you.  Did they “get into” the hunt?  Did they have any suggestions, input?  You obviously did this the right way, talking to authorities, etc.  Even if the casque isn’t found, I would label this successful.  Congratulations.
Okie

Wilhouse-
Ask them when they are done there,
if they would be willing to do the same
thing to a National Park in North Carolina?
(Patience is the key, right?)

With all of the great theories on this being Houston with V1, I hate to be the one to toss out other possibilities but…..  If a land mark is what you need….how bout this….
http://www.raulsphotography.com/city%20 … as%202.JPG
sorry all, just wanted to toss it out.    :-X

Fox, I’m dense. What are you trying to point out? And what in that picture would be the number 982?
Also, while I’m not completely familiar with all of Dallas, I know that some of these buildings were not there in 1982.
wilhouse

Dero72

Again, BP never did concretely say, ‘Yes – it’s in the Children’s Zoo’.
I just don’t buy it. In the email with the searcher, he said that it wouldn’t be worthless to dig there…at the very least it would eliminate that location as the spot.

Unknown

Unknown:
And again, I went to that Children’s Zoo MANY times in the early 80’s. Do you know how long it would take to dig a 3 ft. hole? Try it. You won’t be done in 5 minutes.

Unknown

Unknown:
Based on my memories (for whatever that’s worth), there is NO WAY he could’ve buried something in the children’s zoo.

Unknown

Unknown:
Children would’ve been there. Parents, as well. Zoo employees would have NEVER allowed it: the Children’s Zoo was A PART of the full zoo. There was always MORE security in that area, as you might expect. There were also always zoo employees…docents and such, helping kids interact with the goats and sheep, etc etc.

Unknown

Unknown:
It’s not a matter of ethics or anything. It would’ve been physically impossible. Even if he tries, he never finishes. Digging a 3 foot hole takes time….let alone re-filling it and covering it up so that it looks fairly undisturbed.

Unknown

Unknown:
And, of course, as I stated earlier…this is just MY interpretation. So, of course I think that this one is more plausible than the others.

Unknown

Unknown:
In the end, there is only ONE correct answer. As we all make our pitches, it doesn’t mean any disrespect to others’ opinions. It’s just OUR OPINION. Who’s right? Well, after 30+ years, we still don’t know. That’s why we’re throwing out these friendly guesses.

Unknown

Unknown:
But again, I am pretty sure about the thing NOT being buried in the Children’s Zoo. Even if you made all of the clues fit (and I don’t think they do…at all), the deed could have never been done. And I don’t think Priuss would’ve endorsed folks digging on private city property, which the zoo was before 2002.

“It wouldn’t be a waste of time to dig there… However, I make no guarantees whatsoever.” This being after he told the person, “It’s not there” at several other spots. But I do agree with you. In the few instances that are known of Preiss speaking to people, he seemed to go out of his way to f**k with them.
Yes, I do. Oh man, do I ever. That being said, the directions don’t say it is buried 3 feet down, they say max 3 feet down. The two that were found were at about 1 to 1.5 feet down.
You ever been to Chicago digspot? Would you dig there? It seems you are projecting your own apprehension on Preiss.
You seem to assume he buried these during the daytime. Should you? Ask yourself this (if you follow all the puzzles), If there is a casque in FOY, and there are clues in the park which have could ONLY be seen in the daytime (“with windrose” inside a building), and we KNOW he couldn’t have buried it in the daytime there… do you think he just scoped things out in the day and came back at night? Same with Roanoke… Did he dig in EG or FR or WBNM in the daytime, wherever you think it is?
I’ve dug some pretty massive 4×15 foot trenches in the middle of the night in and at places I definitely shouldn’t have. I guarantee you that nobody ever knew in the morning.
Ding! Again, did BP make a puzzle, where he states he doesn’t want us to dig all over, based on personal interpretations? Or, would there need to be some level of fact involved? “A
little
digging is your task.”
Correct… one correct answer. Everybody can make pitches for spots, we’ve got plenty of pitches. We’ve had friendly guesses since Day 1. And, no disrespect taken at all. If you hang around enough, you’ll find that I’m truly not being a dick… I’m not meaning any disrespect either. I just happen to think that we’ve been making those pitches for far far far far toooooo long. We’re missing something. I just keep pressing for others to find what that something is, cause it ain’t another digspot.
Read the directions carefully… BP clearly says nothing about private property, only hazardous property. On top of that, the rules and directions outright state that we could find one of these “in our own backyard.” He also makes it very clear that we can solve these without ever visiting the site, and that we may very well find one where we are “unable” to dig.

Glossiphoniidae

You seem to assume he buried these during the daytime. Should you? Ask yourself this (if you follow all the puzzles), If there is a casque in FOY, and there are clues in the park which have could ONLY be seen in the daytime (“with windrose” inside a building), and we KNOW he couldn’t have buried it in the daytime there… do you think he just scoped things out in the day and came back at night? Same with Roanoke… Did he dig in EG or FR or WBNM in the daytime, wherever you think it is?

Again, couldn’t have happened. The Childrens Zoo was an attraction INSIDE of the Houston Zoo. Which closes at night. Locked gates and everything. High walls on all of the perimeters: it’s always been that way. For BP to do this at night, he would’ve had to trespass (read—> ‘break in’) after hours. He would’ve had to jump the gates. Deal with security. IN A ZOO, which has 24 hour security as well as zoo-keepers there around the clock. Try to understand that he couldn’t do it if he wanted to…and IF for some weird reason he knew someone ‘on the inside’ who would sneak him in to do so, he’d be asking others to do the same thing to find the treasure…because that’s the only way it would’ve even been possible.
Again, I don’t revel in shooting down long-adhered to assumptions about this possibility, but you have to understand that the Houston Zoo was not like the spot in Cleveland or Chicago. It was not publicly accessible at all hours. It does not have moments of isolation (even brief ones) during business hours which would allow for a dig to occur. And business hours are the ONLY hours during which it could’ve happened: again, NO – it can’t happen at night because the zoo is CLOSED at night. Locked up, tight. More patrolled by security and employees than the typical business would be. It’s a zoo.
I say very affectionately, banish this idea from your head that BP could’ve ever have dug a hole on the grounds of the Houston Zoo. I wish I could transport you in my mind back to the zoo of that time…so that you could see how impossible the idea is.

You misinterpret my questioning as a proposition that I 1) believe it to be in the CZ, and 2) that I don’t agree with the assumptions regarding plausibility you are proposing.
However, I am doing neither. I am simply pointing out the fact that we don’t KNOW.
Now, think in a broader sense, should we KNOW where the casques are, or should we be digging holes at every friendly guess that makes sense? Do we need to dig holes to KNOW we are right, or should we KNOW we are right before digging?
If fact is used as part of a determiner for locations, that would mean we would need indisputable things… like the fence and bowman in chicago, like the entrance columns and wall cleveland, like…
No?

Glossiphoniidae

You misinterpret my questioning as a proposition that I 1) believe it to be in the CZ, and 2) that I don’t agree with the assumptions regarding plausibility you are proposing.
However, I am doing neither. I am simply pointing out the fact that we don’t KNOW.
Now, think in a broader sense, should we KNOW where the casques are, or should we be digging holes at every friendly guess that makes sense? Do we need to dig holes to KNOW we are right, or should we KNOW we are right before digging?

Well, I’ll throw in with you there. Of course we don’t know. It’s why we’re here.
Digging is the only way to know for sure. Period.
Gotta swing the bat to have any shot at a home-run. Sometimes, a whole lot of swinging happens before bat-meets-ball.
So…a whole lot of holes might need to be dug before anything can be KNOWN. The earth won’t mind (although property owners of that particular patch of earth might).
As far as the CZ goes, that’s just me telling you what I DO know. I may not be able to say with a certainty that I know where it IS…but I do know many places where it ISN’T.
It ISN’T in my Grandmothers back garden: my grandma knew every inch of that garden – she’d have noticed.
It ISN’T under the 50-yard line at Rice Stadium: the groundskeepers over there would’ve noticed a blade of grass out of place.
And it ISN’T in the Houston Zoo. For the reasons I’ve stated above.
OR maybe I’m wrong…
and it IS in my Grandma’s garden.

Dero72

Well, I’ll throw in with you there. Of course we don’t know. It’s why we’re here.
Digging is the only way to know for sure. Period.

Unknown

Unknown:
Gotta swing the bat to have any shot at a home-run. Sometimes, a whole lot of swinging happens before bat-meets-ball.
So…a whole lot of holes might need to be dug before anything can be KNOWN.

Unknown

Unknown:
As far as the CZ goes, that’s just me telling you what I DO know. I may not be able to say with a certainty that I know where it IS…but I do know many places where it ISN’T.

Unknown

Unknown:
It ISN’T in my Grandmothers back garden: my grandma knew every inch of that garden – she’d have noticed.
It ISN’T under the 50-yard line at Rice Stadium: the groundskeepers over there would’ve noticed a blade of grass out of place.

Unknown

Unknown:
And it ISN’T in the Houston Zoo. For the reasons I’ve stated above.

Not according to the rules.
Agree! Personally, I am 0 for about 25.
How many times should one keep swinging and missing before they realize they are holding the bat wrong?
How do you know where it ain’t… you dig those spots?
Agree… there is nothing in the puzzle that would give us pause to believe it is.
… You’re opinion reasons? That doesn’t seem so solid.

Glossiphoniidae

… You’re opinion reasons? That doesn’t seem so solid.

Heh. No, my factual reasons…mentioned earlier. Several times.
But alas, we’re dancing in circles…and I’ve never been a fan of debating for the sport of it.

Dero72

Heh. No, my factual reasons…mentioned earlier. Several times.
But alas, we’re dancing in circles…and I’ve never been a fan of debating for the sport of it.

Alas, another digspot on the pile of digspots.

Holes inside of holes…and NO KEYS….

Dero72

Holes inside of holes…and NO KEYS….

Well then, if you are working on those… I would say we should chat. PM me if interested.

Unknown

Unknown:
Fortress north
Cold as glass
Friendship south
Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two
…

If we’re going to discuss the starting point, might as well paste the beginning of the verse here for reference:
In my mind, it didn’t really matter where the Fortress and Friendship points are for starters if they then take you (or your task) to the number 982. Couldn’t one just as easily start at the 982 train? Or… you’re actually led to a sign marked with the 982 and not all the way to the train itself. I’m happy to listen to a local describe the area as it stood back in the day.

Dero72

hey guys…typing up my theory this weekend. sorry….i posted my intro and then some work got in the way.
apologies.
– dero

Pay no attention to the gnashing of teeth.

So…
‘Stepping across’ the cross-walk deposits us on a little island of land adjacent to the Mecom Fountain. Currently (2016), on this little patch of land sits the Bloch Plaza Cancer Survivors Memorial. It’s a little courtyard that was built around an old fountain…with a sculpture nearby. In 1981, however, this survivor memorial was NOT there.
So, don’t let this little modern plaza distract you. What’s more important here is WHERE you are standing IN RELATION TO the Mecom Fountain (behind you) and another structure that is visible just ahead. In front of you (facing south) sits ANOTHER fountain that is quite impressive and relevant to our search.
Take a look at this:
This fountain is called the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade. ANOTHER Mecom fountain. It is just up ahead, across the street on the next block. Look at this map:
Note where we are on this map: we are down in the left corner area. The number ‘1’ shows you the Mecom Fountain (the big fountain with 2 smaller scale ones flanking/’winging’ it).
The number ‘2’ shows you the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade.
At the moment, we are standing on that little unnamed triangular block of land directly in between the 2. Right in the middle.
‘In the center of four alike’
– You look around and you realize that you are in the center of four ‘alike’ things. Four fountains. Four fountains all named ‘Mecom’, in fact. Could this be the clue? Well, the next words in the verse seem to confirm this.
‘Small, split,’
– the one fountain ahead of you is the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade. It is smaller than the 3 fountains that make up the Mecom Fountain behind you. It is split apart from them…a ‘solo’ fountain. It also is surrounded by ‘split’ pillars. This fountain is your first ‘alike’ thing. Now, turn around and look behind you at the Mecom Fountain again…
‘Three winged and slight’
– Take a look at this picture:
The clues all seem to make sense. Three fountains. ‘Winged’. See how the 2 smaller, ‘slight’ fountains wing the larger one? Even the water patterns create the shape of ‘wings’ on each fountain.
And here you are, standing in the center of these four alike things…one of them smaller and split from the rest, the other three ‘winged’. And you are standing on a non-descript piece of land, not even named on a map of the area. All of this is officially ‘in’ Hermann Park, btw. Additionally, here is where the Hermann references come into play. That little triangle of land is bordered by 3 streets: Fannin, Hermann Drive and Herman Park Drive.
Up until this point, I’m very sure about everything. The clues all make sense. The ‘four alike’ thing clinches it. I don’t think Preiss would’ve made so vague a description of ‘four alike’ to mean four trees…particularly for a park area full of hundreds of them. Again, study the two puzzles that have already been solved. Sending folks to look for 4 trees in some sort of grouping IN A WOODED PARK is a huge reach to me.
Now…what’s next? Here, I find myself splitting into a couple of possible directions, mostly due to the image #8. Here is where we encounter some huge things which are present in 2016, but were not there at all in Priuss’s 1981. I’ll get into those, next…
dero72

OK…
So, I’ll begin by saying that I can’t claim that I’m completely sure about ALL of the elements of this mystery (primarily the latter parts of the verse), but I do feel very confident in the majority of my interpretations. I DO believe that the popular assumption that the search should begin at the 982 train is incorrect, and I believe this mistake is based on a very reasonable misinterpretation of the instructions early in the verse. The ‘fortress’ and ‘friendship’ markers DO matter…a great deal, in fact. These markers tell you WHERE to begin. Looking at the 2 verses that have been solved in Chicago and Clevelan is very instructive. Priess didn’t issue a lot of vague clues. You didn’t have to do a lot of ‘reaching’ to make things fit. Every single thing mentioned was important. All of it pertinent. Nothing was insignificant or ‘not important’, and each line is intimately connected to everything else.
Finally, I’ll say this: everything I’m about to present is simply what I ‘think’ to be the explanation to some of the mystery. I could be very wrong. Better and smarter men and women than me have grappled with this thing for over 30 years. At the very least, I think I may be able to just add a bit more clarity to certain aspects of this thing.
As mentioned before, I was raised in Houston and spent a great deal of time around Hermann Park – all of my life. In my early 20’s, I worked at the Houston Museum Of Natural Science for several years. I spent untold hours all over that park every single day. Hopefully, some of that history can come to bear in this…and maybe, I can add some grains of info that will help.
So, let’s begin:
‘Fortress north
Cold as glass’
– I have no doubt at all about what this is, and it’s very important…as it gives us our very first clue to exactly where we should be physically standing to begin this quest. Many have thought that it represents downtown Houston and the glass buildings in the skyline. Take a look at this picture:
This was downtown Houston in 1980/81. Not an entirely huge amount of ‘glass’ there. You can see the Texas Commerce building is under construction in this picture, and it finally was completed in 1981. From a distance, the skyline was not filled with glass…not enough to strike a visitor like Preiss. It wouldn’t have been an obvious connotation.
BTW, remember that fact the entire time we read any of this man’s verses/clues: Preiss was a VISITOR to the city. As in the 2 mysteries which have already been solved, he would’ve used distinctive landmarks that would’ve jumped out to a tourist, and then supplemented these allusions with descriptive details. In many ways, he uses obvious visual references.
Additionally, a vague ‘downtown’ reference would’ve created a HUGE search area, which would encompass all the area from downtown to Hermann. Again, look to the mysteries which have been solved. Directional clues were compact. Not to mention: downtown as a ‘fortress’? That makes no sense. You have to mentally reach to make that idea come even close to reasonable.
So, what is the ‘fortress’ which marks the northern boundary of where you should be standing?
Look at this picture:
There is your glass fortress…in more ways than one.
The Glassell School of Art stood on an entire city block…an imposing, fortress like structure made up of thousands of glass blocks, which looked like ice cubes. From 1981-1983, I attended this school every single Saturday morning. I won a scholarship to go here and became very familiar with the building. All of us kids joked about the building looking like ice cubes (‘cold as glass’).
But here is what cinches it: look at the pic again. Printed very boldly in blue letters on the front of the building was the name: GLASSELL SCHOOL OF ART. You see it? GLASSell. I’m positive that this is the double entendre that Preiss intended. The glass building LOOKED like ice blocks, and the word ‘glass’ was printed prominently ON THE BUILDING. Everyone knew this building in 1981. It was promoted as a work of art itself, having been built in 1979. The use of the glass blocks scientifically cooled the building. That fact was also widely touted. Preiss would’ve known/heard about it and been impressed. Everyone was. Strong visual clue, here.
So, there you are: Preiss has marked your northern boundary for you…just north of Hermann Park.
‘Friendship south’
– Many have cited their belief that the ‘Friendship Plaza’ location as the marker for this clue, which I am sure is incorrect. Firstly, there were no very prominent markers as to what the pavilion was. I was raised here and I had NO idea what the name of the pavilion was. Yes, I knew there was a pagoda in the park, but we attached no importance to it. Sure, I was an 11 year old kid, and I’m sure if you were to read the sign or marker out front, you could’ve seen what exactly this place was. For this verse, it wasn’t prominent enough. Especially when there was a much more prominent marker for ‘Friendship’ in the area. Here it is:
The statue of the man who was the first President of (and who many consider the father of) Texas, Sam Houston. He personifies ‘Texas’. ‘Texas’ is from the Caddo Indian word “teyshas”, which translates to the word ‘FRIENDS’. No more prominent landmark representing ‘friendship’ can be found in this park. Even the tourist would’ve known this straight away…and you really have to just KNOW that Preiss would never have written a mystery in Hermann Park and NOT include this statue. It is the most recognizable landmark in the area. This is the southern boundary to where you should be STANDING when you begin the quest.
Now, where exactly are you standing? Well, if you are standing at the northern boundary and facing south, the Glassell is at your back. At your front? Well, you’re looking directly at a huge landmark…one that sits in between you and the ‘Friendship’ Sam Houston statue, a little further south. That prominent landmark is the Houston Museum Of Fine Arts. Where do you go from here?
‘Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two’
– Here we see the infamous 982 reference. This no doubt represents the steam locomotive which was parked in front of the Houston Zoo, even further south of the ‘Friendship’ Sam Houston statue. Now, here is where I think the misunderstanding comes in. Read the first lines of the verse again. The northern and southern boundaries establish WHERE YOU BEGIN searching. The fact that you are now being told to ‘take your task’ somewhere else indicates this. I believe the language here is basically telling you, ‘head towards the steam engine/zoo’. Everyone in Houston would’ve known which way that meant. South. Go towards the zoo. Take your task there. ‘Take your task…’ (i.e.) start walking. But where?
‘Through the wood
No lion fears’
– Now, in an area which is parkland, it’s easy to just assume, ‘oh, he just means to walk through the trees…’. But think deeper than that. Why the illusion to a lion? Or the allusion to ‘fear’? First off, lets cross some things off the list:
NO, it isn’t referring to the zoo. I’m pretty sure that lions don’t dig the zoo. It’s like ‘lion jail’. Of course they would have some fear there. And back then (1981), the lions were in cages, not the open environment they built for the lions years later.
NO, it isn’t the park. That just makes no sense. It’s reaching to make a connection that isn’t there. There is no connection between ‘lions’ and the park.
NO, it has nothing to do with those lion water fountains.
Those fountains were all inside of the zoo. That was one of the thrills of going to the zoo back then. Me and my kid sister wanted to get inside and drink out of a lions mouth.
So, what is the wood?
Well, the correlation of a lion and ‘fear’ instantly recalls the cowardly lion from Wizard Of Oz fame. I thought about that. And then I thought of another lion…probably the most popular lion of modern popular culture. This guy:
The MGM lion is a well known lion. The MGM opening is part of popular culture. See that latin phrase written above the lion? “Ars Gratia Artis”. Here’s what it translates to:“Art for art’s sake”. And here we are, standing in front of a building that is in our pathway to the zoo…which just happens to be an Art Museum! ‘Through the wood which no lion fears’…THROUGH the arts museum…which was only one building in 1981…and free to enter.
(BTW – our allusion to the cowardly lion of Wizard of Oz fame may have some merit, after all. Which film studio produced the 1939 film? MGM.
)
SO…we walk through and we come out the opposite entrance (which was operable and very much used back in 1981). We step outside, and what do we see?
I’ll continue in my next post…
jermaine

So, we’ve walked through the ‘forest no lion fears’….which would’ve been a quick walk, btw. If one was to enter the Museum Of Fine Arts through the entry doors facing the Glassell on Bissonet Street, you could walk straight through the first floor (which was mostly comprised of a huge open gallery). Within 2 minutes, you’d exit the entry way on the opposite (SOUTH) side of the building.
So there you stand. What do you see?
‘In the sky the water veers’
Water, moving in the sky. Veering. A tourist like Preiss would’ve looked out and saw an impressive sight…
The Mecom Fountain is actually three fountains: a large one in the middle flanked by 2 smaller identical ones (remember that for later). As you exit the Museum Of Fine Arts, it’s the first thing you see. It’s a huge, loud fountain. It’s pictured in every tourist book about Houston. To come upon them, especially at night when they are lit up, is memorable. A strong visual clue.
Note in this following picture, how the water moves…how it ‘veers’:
As the water spouts up, each major plume of water is surrounded by a ring of water which curves inwards towards it. All three fountains move in unison.
‘Small of scale’
– Again, look at them. Three fountains: a large one, flanked by 2 identical fountains, SMALLER IN SCALE. So, let’s walk towards the fountains. They are situated on an island in the center of a roundabout. But, you notice that the pathway laid out for foot traffic enables you to cross over via a crosswalk…so….
‘Step across’
– Interestingly, the crosswalk where you’d ‘step across’ is directly in front of one of the smaller fountains. Therefore, Preiss could’ve been confirming to the reader that they were indeed on the right track (small of scale -> step across). More visual clues.
‘Perspective should not be lost’
– Remember, we are heading towards the general direction of the zoo….towards ‘982’. Now, for the first time in our journey, we’re able to see the Sam Houston statue (Friendship). But you must keep your perspective. As I mentioned, the Mecom Fountain sits in the center of a roundabout…a VERY busy one. Its very easy to get turned around, especially if you don’t know the area. This could be Priess’s way of saying, ‘Don’t get distracted: keep heading towards the zoo.’ Your visual clues have assured you that you are heading in the right direction.
Preiss could also be reminding searchers to be careful and pay attention, here. More than a few people have been hit by cars here, over the years. This roundabout is one of the most tricky places to navigate in Houston, even in a car. It is also the gateway to Hermann Park. So there are always tons of cars and tons of pedestrians interacting, here. ‘Step across’…and then, immediately, ‘keep your perspective/pay attention!’.
You also see, for the first time, the Miller Outdoor Theater and the hill. This would be a good time to pull out image #8. Do certain things begin to line up? Remember, it’s 1981 and you are on a pathway which has been provided by the park for foot traffic. There were things that were in the area in 1981 that are no longer around today (i.e.) the Glassell ‘glass fortress’. But, there are also things in our pathway today which DIDN’T exist in 1981. And we’re coming upon a couple of big ones.
But first, we are going to find ourselves positioned in the center of four ‘alike’ things. I’ll show them to you on my next post.
Hint: they are NOT trees.
jr

BTW, any thoughts so far?
Am I nuts?

Dero72

BTW, any thoughts so far?
Am I nuts?

No, not at all. It’s all plausible. I especially like the part where you say to review the two solved puzzles.
I’m not sure if you noticed, though, that BP DID put the casque in places he shouldn’t have in cleveland and chicago. You ever been to either of these places? He also used trees in chicago to pinpoint a casque. There are a lot of plausible theories out there. What makes this one (with or without sharing your actual digspot) correct, while the other plausible theories are incorrect?
For instance, why is it not plausible that we start at the Warwick Towers (fortress north) adjacent to Glassell (cold as glass) in Texas (friendship state). You know, we would be right next to the reflecting pool (column). Then just follow the road around to the 982, and…
…walk from the 982
…through the Cypress Cafe (through the wood)
…passing the lion fountain directly through it (not to be feared)
…on the path to and through the aqua tunnel (in the sky the water veers)
… where you’d come out of the tunnel and step across the four continents, which are clearly of small scale…
Answer this question for yourself… Should one know one is correct before digging, or must one dig up a casque before one can know if the they are correct?
Why am I wrong, and you are right? Do we need to dig lots of holes to determine who is right? Might another person be right, and neither of us is? How would we know, digging even more holes?
None of this seems to mesh with the directions from the book…
BTW, the guy who talked to BP about Houston DID give him a spot.

Again, BP never did concretely say, ‘Yes – it’s in the Children’s Zoo’.
I just don’t buy it. In the email with the searcher, he said that it wouldn’t be worthless to dig there…at the very least it would eliminate that location as the spot.
And again, I went to that Children’s Zoo MANY times in the early 80’s. Do you know how long it would take to dig a 3 ft. hole? Try it. You won’t be done in 5 minutes.
Based on my memories (for whatever that’s worth), there is NO WAY he could’ve buried something in the children’s zoo. Children would’ve been there. Parents, as well. Zoo employees would have NEVER allowed it: the Children’s Zoo was A PART of the full zoo. There was always MORE security in that area, as you might expect. There were also always zoo employees…docents and such, helping kids interact with the goats and sheep, etc etc.
It’s not a matter of ethics or anything. It would’ve been physically impossible. Even if he tries, he never finishes. Digging a 3 foot hole takes time….let alone re-filling it and covering it up so that it looks fairly undisturbed.
And, of course, as I stated earlier…this is just MY interpretation. So, of course I think that this one is more plausible than the others. In the end, there is only ONE correct answer. As we all make our pitches, it doesn’t mean any disrespect to others’ opinions. It’s just OUR OPINION. Who’s right? Well, after 30+ years, we still don’t know. That’s why we’re throwing out these friendly guesses.
But again, I am pretty sure about the thing NOT being buried in the Children’s Zoo. Even if you made all of the clues fit (and I don’t think they do…at all), the deed could have never been done. And I don’t think Priuss would’ve endorsed folks digging on private city property, which the zoo was before 2002.
– dero

Where exactly is this?
and what snowdrop sign?
wilhouse
ps, be sure to use the verse in conjunction with the image!

It’s the fence between the golf course and the garden center. If you look back over the last couple of pages from halfway down P21 you’ll see pics showing the location and a possible verse walkthrough, though I’m now more interested in that final spot than the way I originally interpreted the verse. “In the center” could get you there from above at the colonnade, or maybe below from the zoo.

WhiteRabbit

A gem at the base of a pillar…

My memory is rusty… did we ever consider simply digging at the base of one of those totem-like pillars? There were literally pillars in the CZ, and the jewel is depicted at the base of one, after all.

in the picture the gem is at a base of a non-segmented pillar. No I did not dig by the totem like pillars, but I did poke around there and didn’t see any thing.
I did dig at virtually every non-totem pillar, expect for one or two that were either in concrete or asphalt.  That doesn’t mean they were in concrete or asphalt when they were placed though.
wilhouse

welcome goatlady

goatlady, of course we welcome your thoughts and hope you continue with us on this adventure.
you might want to reread my posts on image 8 and verse 1 and see if maybe houston makes more sense.
good luck to you.
wilhouse

Thanks so much. W I am trying really hard to see Houston as a fit. Maybe when my book comes next week I will be able to see the pictures better. Biosphere in Oracle, petrified wood segments, Titan missile (wingless?) I think I’m doomed.

hello folks, my book is on it’s way. I hope you don’t mind my thoughts on image 8. I have looked at it a lot and I still keep seeing Az. The camel is a spitting image of the one on Hi Jollys gravesite. The jewel made me think of Az fire agate. The person could be Hi Jolly or as he was named Hadji Ali. His grave is shaped like a pyramid (three sides?) Besides railroad tracks the ones without cross ties could be wagon wheel tracks. The globe made me think of the observitories. That’s all I had, just wanted to share. I hope you all don’t mind me posting, thanks goatlady

Hey, Fenix, I checked out that page, it seems she started in the zoo in the late 90’s.  Not sure she could be of any help, but I’ll contact her anyways.
thx
wilhouse

mobhit, the area you are posting is where I first started looking for the casque.  You are slowly but surely repeating 2 years worth of investigating here in Houston.
If you have not done so, please read my back posts on both image 8 and verse 1.  What you will find is that the poles you have shown are totem poles that exist in the children’s zoo.  There’s no need to go looking for them elsewhere.
The statue area of Hermann Park has been dug up and replanted, rebricked and laid with concrete. If it’s there, it’s under concrete now.
The  CZ is due to be demolished in about a month. Either I will find it then, or not at all.
wilhouse

goatlady, the key to this hunt is to tie the verse and photo together.  just finding stuff in the photos won’t get you anywhere.
I have tied verse 1 to this image.  verse 1 talks about the train at the zoo, and the CZ and landmarks around the zoo.
the latitude and longitude in the photo, along with the image of texas in the stones, is what I’ve used to tie this picture to the verse.
wilhouse

yea, I get that.

Hey guys! Just wanted to put up an aerial view of Hermann Park for reference.
youtu.be/PjJ1OT1xT-M?t=1m

Stercox,
as Wilhouse said…welcome aboard.  feel free to let your ideas flow.  Most of us agree that the 982V seems to be leading to Houston (Hermann Prk) but we are all still wondering about the corresponding V.  Some time ago, I stumbled upon the Lat/Lon #’s that appear in many of the P’s and that is why we are “tentatively” using the camel P for Houston.  I really do like your ideas on Vegas and will be poking around there with this P now as well.
Just because you are the new kid on the block, please dont think your ideas are stupid.  Scan the posts for P1 and you will see that a new kid found links to Charleston SC.
again…welcome!

Thanks for the Welcome, Wilhouse!  Looks like you have some good leads on this and a good tie in to V1 (982).  Have you found the Arab/Persian theme connection to this??  I think that the themes will prove to be very important.  But I’m the new kid on the block.  Have been chewing on a different P/V this month and wanted to poke around the board, offer my two cents, and introduce myself.  Trying to look at things from a different angle.  Will post with definitive progress.  Good luck in Houston.

erexere

Here’s a goodyear blimp airfield in Spring, Texas that was present sometime between 1964 and still there in 1981.

Baltar from BSG.
ball-tarmac?  Im just kidding.  The shape of these blimp airfields seems to have a trend.  Here is one near Carson, CA

I always thought that this picture of the hills in the zoo just north of the CZ pretty closely matched the hills in image 8. If you see them in person they look even better.
Also, I found this picture of the plaque in the aqua tunnel. It shows a donation by the Rockwell Fund. Rockwell Corp was famous for being part of the space age for testing rocket engines. I don’t think it’s the same Rockwell, but it is a nice coincidence.
wilhouse

That might be just it Wilhouse.  Hills could be just hills.  On foot perceptions will acctount for something.  I have to add one important observation from my total failure in my Hospital theory.  That half curve belonging to a circle looks very juicy.  Since it doesnt work at that location, my guess is it will pair with at least one other thing in the image to give a reference.  It could be the Elf fountain close by or it could be a much larger circle at a greater distance like the Houston Loop.

Unknown

Unknown:
As for the golf course, I said near, not on. If you find any other large sweeps of sand in Hermann Park, let me know. But you seem too busy investigating things that weren’t there at the time, or ever.

I beg your pardon?

Im just getting started, fox…how about humpback as a word play on “hum” “Bach”?  Maybe we need to look for a music performance area…

except that it didn’t look like that in 82!
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
Could you give a quick run down of the items/finds in image 8 that links this to Houston,
I remember the texas map, the lat/lon, what other things were found in this image.
Did you ever find something “iconic” that says Houston?

For me, Image 8 was conclusively linked to Houston when I put it side-by-side with the satellite image of Hermann Park in Houston, TX:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=hermann+park,+houston&ie=UTF8&cd=1&sll=29.684486,-95.384574&sspn=0.181127,0.052897≪=29.719961,-95.391176&spn=0.006122,0.009613&t=k&z=17
Here’s what it looks like:
Thanar

Wilhouse,
You’re right. It didn’t look like that in 1982. But how close did it look?
– The Sam Houston Monument (and circular area around it) were erected at that location in 1925.
– The Jesse H. Jones Reflection Pool was built in 1916, but was enlarged to 750’ by 80’ in the 1990s (
http://www.wonarch.com/pdf/TXchronicle08.01.04.pdf
).
– The Pioneer Memorial obelisk was built in 1936 and was moved to its current location in 2003 (
http://www.texasexplorer.com/HermannPark.htm
).
The pictures taken in the 1920s (from the pdf above and
http://www.hermannpark.org/Scardino_action_plan.pdf
)
show that the circular area around the Monument and long north-south grassy area around the Reflection Pool were present. They aren’t nearly as well-defined (with a path cutting diagonally across the grassy area, etc), but they seem (to me at least) have about the same proportions as at present. I guess it is a bit hard to tell from these pictures, since they are from an angle, not vertical. The fact that the pool wasn’t enlarged in 1982 makes the similarity to Image 8 not as visually striking, since the match to the vertical column is no longer uniform and dark.
So I’ll grant that it is not a
conclusive
link to the aerial view of 1982, which is what counts. I’d still love to see an actual aerial view from 1982 to compare it with Image 8 side-by-side.
Thanar

That gave me the impression of the old stage with performers in a play or something.
I do not see any numbers but instead graphic images of a couple people on stage. Perhaps performing that free musicals”Bells of the Night”.
I never really looked at it more closely than that.

WR, this looks like it almost works, bit im not getting a sense for that big picture feel yet.  I like the way youre checking things off the list.
Something that occured to me is a baseball motif.  Camel, rhino, genie are three facing the same direction like 1st, 2nd, 3rd base.  Are they looking towards home?

Re: “checking things off the list”, I was wondering if “Small of scale, step across” could be the C of the parking lot…
Small C
, Scale of C…stepping across from the fountain to that corner…the tip of the rhino’s horn.

WhiteRabbit

So maybe the tile/fence comparison fits better like this:
That would put the gem close to the
second
pillar, at the left edge of this stretch of fence.
I’m now interested in this corner area…
It seems to fit the image in a “whole thing” way, under the canopy of leaves…
Here’s Qkslvr01’s pic of that corner.
I’m not sure what that metal stuff is, or when it dates from.

The metal stuff is high voltage lines for the golf course lights, etc. The light post outside the fence has a metal plate stating “high voltage lines”.

remember that in 1982 there was no internet. How would Preiss lead one to this spot?
wilhouse

…pretty easy to find from the pointers I’ve already explained if you’ve got as far as the zoo…

That’s really helpful Qkslvr01, thanks for that.  🙂
There’s been a lot of focus on pillars, but not much said about the rest of the pic. I was interested in this design…
There are two rows of 11 tiles (quite unambiguous) and an “11” above them. It reminded me of the fence, and I’d suggested the 11th post north…
Here’s Qkslvr01’s view of it.
On the one hand, this looks theoretically possible. On the other hand, looking at these photos made me realise this is fairly arbitrary, there’s nothing special looking about that post.
But I was interested that Qkslvr01 pointed out that there were in fact exactly 11 posts
east
.
I’ve circled the Garden Center sign. Its design of a three-leafed plant in a four-sided box fits the description of:
In the center of four alike
Small, split, three-winged and slight
This also fits directly with the quote from Pierre that follows:
“…what we take to be our strongest tower of delight only stands at the caprice of the minutest event –
the falling of a leaf
“
So maybe the tile/fence comparison fits better like this:
That would put the gem close to the
second
pillar, at the left edge of this stretch of fence.
I’m now interested in this corner area…
It seems to fit the image in a “whole thing” way, under the canopy of leaves…
Here’s Qkslvr01’s pic of that corner.
I’m not sure what that metal stuff is, or when it dates from.

atdreamer2112

Hey gMan, that’s really cool! Aren’t you also the one who pointed out the seagull’s head in Prospect Park, Brooklyn for Image 12? And doesn’t the centaur’s helmet overlay with the Cleveland gardens somehow from Image 4? I hope you’re onto something here methodology wise.

Thanks and yes. I haven’t really look at Cleveland at all, but that’s the general concept.

So, I’ve been looking at Houston, since well I’m in Texas. Not sure that the casque is still there, but figured I’d share something.
The Djinn’s head is Hermann Park and the right side of the funnel is Brays Bayou. I also believe that the left side of the funnel is Buffalo Bayou to the west. The two bayous are not connected on the map, but it sets some boundaries in the Houston metro area. Basically BP is “funneling” you into Hermann Park.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc6xjn8bk0i90 … n.jpg?dl=0
You have to go to maps and look at Buffalo Bayou, it has the same shape as the left side of the spout. Notice that there are trees around Buffalo Bayou and it looks less “defined” than Brays Bayou.
Also, the rhino head is a map overlay of the park itself.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tf3mb199gol2v … o.png?dl=0

gManTexas

So, I’ve been looking at Houston, since well I’m in Texas. Not sure that the casque is still there, but figured I’d share something.
The Djinn’s head is Hermann Park and the right side of the funnel is Brays Bayou. I also believe that the left side of the funnel is Buffalo Bayou to the west. The two bayous are not connected on the map, but it sets some boundaries in the Houston metro area. Basically BP is “funneling” you into Hermann Park.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc6xjn8bk0i90 … n.jpg?dl=0
You have to go to maps and look at Buffalo Bayou, it has the same shape as the left side of the spout. Notice that there are trees around Buffalo Bayou and it looks less “defined” than Brays Bayou.
Also, the rhino head is a map overlay of the park itself.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tf3mb199gol2v … o.png?dl=0

Hey gMan, that’s really cool! Aren’t you also the one who pointed out the seagull’s head in Prospect Park, Brooklyn for Image 12? And doesn’t the centaur’s helmet overlay with the Cleveland gardens somehow from Image 4? I hope you’re onto something here methodology wise.

seek, take a look at the photos I posted and see if you have any suggestions. I’m open!!
wilhouse

Guardian

A couple corrections.
It went by KIKK 96 FM, not KIKK FM, although it was still pronounced “kick”.
It became KIKK with the format change in 1966, not the ‘70s.

Ever wonder why they used KIKK call letters? Why not KICK?
KIKK sounds like a Jewish slur AND KI-K-K sounds like KKK with southern draw all in one.

Choice

Ever wonder why they used KIKK call letters? Why not KICK
KIKK sounds like a Jewish slur AND KI-K-K sounds like KKK with southern draw all in one.

The radio station and its call letters were likely established way before the majority of the planet was looking for something to be mad about.

Bingo with the poignancy! Love it.

nashw

First of all, thanks to Mark Parry for hooking me up with an account. Its been a pain in the butt I know, so thanks for sticking it out.
Secondly, howdy everyone! Guess I’ll introduce myself. I’m a local Houstonian; have lived here since the early 00’s/late 90’s and went to the park (and zoo) many, many times as a child in that timeframe. I know its not the most CRUCIAL time period for this particular solve but I think I can be a useful resource to the community. Currently I live about 10 minutes from Hermann Park, and have no problem zipping over to check anyones solve or to gather information. I’m fairly new to ‘The Secret’ treasure, having found it after doing research on Forrest Fenn’s treasure, but being so close to home got me hooked almost immediately. Since I was locked out of these boards for a while, I have been looking at information found on this website: thesecret.pbworks.com . The moderator there, Oregonian, has put together a nice, easily readable site that gets one relatively caught up to speed fairly quickly. As you can see on the last post in the Image 8, Verse 1 solve page, I went to look around Hermann Park a few days ago, you can see an album of the photos here:
https://imgur.com/a/mTLtxuY
.
Anyway, to be honest with you all, after listening to Wilhouse speak on the “Shhh! The Secret Podcast” about his experience with the Houston Zoo…I have to say he has me quite convinced it was there. So many clues seem to line up, and BP seemed to believe it there as well, although he never outright said “Yes, its there”. But that won’t stop me from looking!
So if you’ve got a solve, or you’d like some pictures/a native Houstonians perspective, I’d love to be of service!

Howdy, welcome to the hunt. Local Houstonian myself and I live right by the park also. I made the same offer as you did on the FB page and only one person took me up on it. I was literally posting them in real time and no one else cared. Oh well…as mentioned above, it’s old photos that we need anyway. We’ve had a couple meet ups over the years but haven’t done one in a long time.
burnstyle posted a bunch of Marks zoo photos on the podcast page that were pretty cool. Thanks for that btw.
The masonic images are interesting but I haven’t found any connection other than inspiration.
Anyway, back to the normal thread. Happy hunting y’all

H-town

The masonic images are interesting but I haven’t found any connection other than inspiration.

Freemasons architectural layout based on stars above: “As above, so below”
Camel may refer to Egypt where obelisks are prominent.
Rhino, may be zoo.
Globe may be water tower, so below would be lake.

Hey Undo, there are good points you made in your post.
Could I ask you to repost it under the thread marked Verse 8, and delete if from image 8, for continuity?  We appreciate it!!
Image 8 does have the lat/long for houston in it, and I believe it points to hermann park, but your discussion is better served under Verse 8.
regards,
wilhouse

Perhaps there’s some connection to Johnson Space Center in Houston, which has a Rocket Park.  One of the rockets is called “Little Joe” (perhaps a play on words for Joe Camel, although that is a bit of a stretch).  Another rocket is the Mercury “Redstone”  and the Saturn V rocket is also there.
http://www.wilhelm-aerospace.org/Photos … posite.jpg
Possible clues in Verse 8:
“View the three stories of Mitchell”
Edgar Mitchell was in the Apollo 14 moon program.  The three stories may be referring to the three stages of the saturn V rocket at the rocket park, that are laid out, end to end on the ground.
“As you walk the beating of the world
At a distance in time”
There is a sidewalk that runs along the edge of the Saturn V
http://www.wilhelm-aerospace.org/Photos … v-full.jpg
“From three who lived there
At a distance in space”
Could be talking about the 3 astronauts who lived in the space capsule,or could be talking about the rocket stages or could be talking about the Saturn V, Mercury Redstone and Little Joe.
“You’ll see a letter from the country”
Perhaps regarding the Moon landings or rocket launches?
“On a proud, tall fifth”
Sounds like the Saturn V rocket.   Since it says “on a proud, tall fifth,” it may mean that its at the southern foot of the  command module which is at the tip of the Saturn V rocket and held the crew of 3 during the space flights.
At its southern foot
The treasure waits.
(Addendum: If it turns out that particular Saturn V was for Apollo 14 (Mitchell’s flight), we may have a match )

Unknown

Unknown:
The Texas State Legislature authorized the creation of local transit authorities in 1973. In 1978, Houston-area voters created METRO and approved a one-cent sales tax to support its operations. METRO opened for business in January 1979. The Authority has transformed a broken bus fleet into a regional multimodal transportation system.

Fact checking is tricky stuff.
Ive been trying to find out when the paver stones along Fannin St. were installed with the rails, since a majority of art space is allocated to represent the classic brick style.  Ive come across some conflicting histories about the light rail installations.  This blurb suggests it was up and running in 1979.
Im thinking this wasnt a rail line at that time, but i wasnt sure why they refer to it as multimodal.  Seems they use METROrail to be specific.

Preiss was Jewish.  He was in a traffic accident on the way to services. and passed away.
wilhouse

MrBackstop

Also, I believe the lady’s face just above the Mummy is supposed to represent Caroline Street which starts at Hermann Park and runs through the Museum District.
Any weekend thoughts on this?

Just to avoid confusing anyone visiting the area, Caroline is a one way street *ending* at the Museum of Natural Science, where it meets Herman Park Drive, formerly known as Golf Course Drive. Turn left to get to the free parking area toward the zoo.

Guardian

I can’t find it. I’ll take a photo of the pic on my computer tonight and upload it by phone, if this site will let me upload directly.

I tried to crop the photo I took on my iPhone because of this site’s 256K limit, but even that was too big.
The photo shows the Pavilion on six struts made from 4x4s stacked like a game of Jenga. Some are even sticking out. There are two rows of steel I-beams on top of those, supporting the structure.
The man in the photo is holding a shovel over his shoulders.
I took a closer look at it tonight. It was hard to identify and I started thinking he was auditioning to replace the construction worker in the Village People. I just spotted the shovel a few minutes ago.
I don’t think they would have used heavy equipment so close to such a fragile structure, especially since the dirt underneath was also cleared out. Plus, I don’t see how they could have safely put the I-beams in place without leaving dirt to set them on. I’m willing to bet they dug out opposite sides by hand for the I-beams, followed by the center, then made them longer one by one until it reached this point. I don’t know what construction methods contractors use, but that seems safest to me. I do know the Jenga-style stacking maximizes stability, and it would be most effective and safest by hand.
One huge question is looming in this photo. To the right of the man is what looks like a big stone with something white peeking out from behind it. There may also be an open wooden box behind him. Could this be the casque? Did the man in the picture find it? That’s the question I’m trying to answer and getting zilch for cooperation from The Powers That Be. Granted, the entire dig would have had to have been done in a single day for the casque to still be there, but with enough people, it’s possible.

Oh boy….make the connections.

Yes, and right above it is a person sitting down.
wilhouse

interesting, I had never noticed the skull before but it sure does look like one.  It looks more like a primate (gorilla?) skull than a human one.  Any info on a famous monkey in the zoo?

There was a very famous gorilla in the zoo in the late 70’s.  It was the oldest gorilla in captivity in the US at the time. I believe it was put down in the early 80’s. It was in the gorilla house, directly north of the Children’s zoo.
And yes, the gorilla house looked like a fortress and had many plexiglass windows so you could see the gorillas!!
wilhouse

It’s just so hard to do without actually seeing it.  It is no longer there…
This whole thing is a crap shoot.  About the only serious actual clue that I have confirmed and feel good about is the hat on the Elf fountain.  Without that hat, I am not sure I would even feel comfortable digging there.
wilhouse

maltedfalcon

or it represents the light fixtures in the CZ
or it represents the Sam Houston monument and the reflecting pool
or none of the above.

The image has a lot of multiple meanings.

MrBackstop

Oh okay, I didn’t realize it was a separate entity. But it still doesn’t change the fact that Theater Under the Stars performed at the original MOT. The original columns from MOT are now the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade. That’s the whole point of the globe column.

The column has at least 3 meanings:
1) the MOT columns
2) The reflecting pool, etc.
3) The shape of the lamps across much of Houston at the time, still found in HP
The multiple meanings in this puzzle are why some people are confused. Different meanings lead to different parks, but everything with different meanings has at least one at MOT. That’s what convinces me it’s in that section of the park.

JoshCornell

egypt theme would take us to broken obelisk monument at rothko chapel. from here you are led to a number of monuments in houston.

Wasn’t around in ‘81. At least, that’s I was told the one time I visited it’s from the ‘90s.

Judging by the photo, the concession stand even looks tower-shaped.  Am I looking at this correctly?

You are. It is cylindrical in shape, and looks like a tower.  The zoo had / has offices on the top floor, and sold concessions on the bottom.
wilhouse

Fox, I’m not following you (it’s early).  Could you explain?
wilhouse

let me see if I understand:  you are saying there may be four like things (trees, fountains, even benches, etc…) and in the center of the 4 (possibly a courtyard area) your 3 items will be.  Now why just 3?  If it were 3 things, each with wings, then wouldnt the phrase 3-winged either come at the beginning or the end of the list….not in the center.  Placed in the center, it sounds like a fourth item of the list.

I think we may probably only need to (or actually) locate one of the pillars.  The pillars are too different to be located all in one area, this is why I think they may just be referring to something.  For example…the zoo: if the zoo used large pillars with sculptures (or even just signs) of each exhibit, I feel the pillars would all be the same.

Guardian

The Mona Lisa has no real value on it’s own, and the owner didn’t paint it to sell and saved for personal use.

maltedfalcon

The Mona Lisa has no real value on it’s own, and the owner didn’t paint it to sell and saved for personal use.

I would say that analogy doesn’t fit. Value is not based on intent
Doesn’t the Mona Lisa have market value???? If put up for auction it wold probably go for millions of US dollars. I am sure it is insured for millions
If a Byron Priess 1982 Houston casque went up for auction what would it fetch? What really market value does it have? Would gain would the City of Houston get by prosecuting the finder of a ceramic casque metal key and plexiglass box buried in Herman Park
Does the city even have the resources to pursue a few misdemeanors? Does anyone really think that with a lawyer a felony conviction would stick? You get a fine to pay and get to be on Josh Gates show

Doghousereiley

Doesn’t the Mona Lisa have market value???? If put up for auction it wold probably go for millions of US dollars. I am sure it is insured for millions
If a Byron Priess 1982 Houston casque went up for auction what would it fetch? What really market value does it have? Would gain would the City of Houston get by prosecuting the finder of a ceramic casque metal key and plexiglass box buried in Herman Park
Does the city even have the resources to pursue a few misdemeanors? Does anyone really think that with a lawyer a felony conviction would stick? You get a fine to pay and get to be on Josh Gates show

Well since the Mona Lisa and the casque have never been sold they actually have the same market value – non-existant
yes the Mona Lisa would be considered priceless. -the casque probably not so much
You asked what gain would the City of Houston get by prosecuting the finder of a ceramic casque metal key and plexiglass box buried in Herman Park
and then you answered your question. Does the city even have the resources to pursue a few misdemeanors?
No so they will pick and choose the best cases to get bang for their buck – Here would be a person who flaunted the laws of Houston and is getting famous for it. prosecuting this case would come with free publicity of the “Don’t Mess With Texas” variety. What better way to make an example for someone who would really flout the laws.
Also If you lost the case you would pay all of Houston’s court costs that they incurred to prosecute you- for them its a win/win.
of course all that being said, It won’t keep me from the search.

Priceless ≠ Worthless. ✓

Unknown

Unknown:
of course all that being said, It won’t keep me from the search.

Easy for you to say since you are searching primarily in San Francisco, where the Parks Department is actually helpful.

it won’t stop me either. and I probe/dig in Houston
Which is what it really comes down to, if a Harris county judge wants to penalize an amateur treasure hunter with no priors who out on a treasure in public park with his kids
I am more concerned with finding the casque than what will be the down fall.
i

It’s a double-edged seord. Not allow digging and risk holes appearing for years, or allow digging with a chance the digging will stop if it’s found? If it were my call, I’d want the hunt over with and go with the latter.

Image connection to Persia and the jinn is the ruins of ancient town of Persepolis, the Apadana audience hall of Darius. Note the bell-shaped base of the column.
Common denominator is the jinn’s head that looks like the audience hall at the Hermann.
It’s Miller time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apadana#/ … lis001.jpg
That may also explain the coordinates 30/52
https://tinyurl.com/y3u4dono

erexere

Mr B. I use to have many of the same views, although I did have a moment of insanity trying to fit it to a super theme about Battlestar Galactica….damn that viper helmet.
Nowadays I look at how an approach may be inspired. You’ll get different results if you try to breadcrumb. Over the years it’ve become hopeful that each verse line plays an important or supportive roll in the process.
I still think there’s some geometry connection to where the jewel is placed in the painting. The same might be said for where JJP signs.

Erexere, what I have noticed with the solves I’ve put together is that the jewel in some of Images give you a location once you are in the correct area.
For example, in this one for Houston, if you are standing at the North entrance of Hermann Park looking South then my solve for Mecom Rockwell Colonnade would be in the bottom left portion of Image 8. Low and behold, the jewel is pictured in the bottom left portion.
In Cleveland there is a directional hint as to where you will find the casque. The jewel is in the middle of the Image. There is a circular sphere with a triangle pointing to the jewel in the center and the direction thru that leads you to the right side of the landscaped box where the casque was found. So if you can place the jewel in that spot and you look at the layout of the Greek Cultural Gardens, it shows us that the jewel was buried in the middle right portion of the Image…just like in the actual part of the park.
New Orleans has the large clock hand pointing to the jewel while the other little hand is just short of 3 O’clock. So if you see that the large hand is telling you that the casque is buried where the little hand indicates then that would put the casque on the middle right side of Lafayette Square. In the Image, if you see the face of the clock as Lafayette Square then the casque is buried in the middle right center of the clock face but in the upper right portion of the entire image.
So, I believe some of the images are telling us where they are geometrically and some are being pointed out or pointed to in order to show a location. Once I find a good spot to look at the clues along with what the verse is telling me, I see the location of the jewels in the Images as an interesting additional clue.

MrBackstop

So if you can place the jewel in that spot and you look at the layout of the Greek Cultural Gardens, it shows us that the jewel was buried in the middle right portion of the Image…just like in the actual part of the park.

MrBackstop

New Orleans has the large clock hand pointing to the jewel while the other little hand is just short of 3 O’clock. So if you see that the large hand is telling you that the casque is buried where the little hand indicates then that would put the casque on the middle right side of Lafayette Square. In the Image, if you see the face of the clock as Lafayette Square then the casque is buried in the middle right center of the clock face but in the upper right portion of the entire image.

Wait……what???
New Orleans? As a references???

Yeah, I get the idea to see a pattern I’ve revered to as jewelometry. As far as In can tell, Chicago or Cleveland might fit the idea, but I’m not ready to say it’s a real pattern. I thinknthe just hopeful and ultimately a bad idea unless we get more facts.

You’re a cool guy to talk to, and once in a while you hit on something, like Charlesgate. You’ve been advocating the Key for five years, and I was hoping to show you an avenue to gather some constructive input, so that when your next theory hits, it doesn’t fall on deaf ears

Thanks. I don’t really mind the deaf ears…It’s the long ears that bother me.

erexere

Thanks. I don’t really mind the deaf ears…It’s the long ears that bother me.

Agreed. As JJP said, “elves can be tricksters.”

erexere

I totally understand the CLEAR point of the sentence. The problem I have is that there’s room for analysis that this might be a clever and logical riddle.
If Atropos is the target reference for “waste of time”, then the statement “It isn’t a waste of time to dig there” should be taken to mean “It isn’t Atropos there”. The core of the argument I’m making is whether we can agree that Atropos and “waste of time” are relational in some context that is worthy of this puzzle.
Atropos is one of three mythological sisters controlling the threads of life. She holds the sheers that cut the thread or “end of the line”.
I see “waste of time” to mean “the decay/diminishing/end of someone’s time”. We could intellectualize waste in other ways for other contexts, or argue that time is a never ending continuum, but that would be ignorant of a possibility that Preiss chose his words wisely or with specific purpose in mind.

erexere

If Atropos is the target reference for “waste of time”, then the statement “It isn’t a waste of time to dig there” should be taken to mean “It isn’t Atropos there”. The core of the argument I’m making is whether we can agree that Atropos and “waste of time” are relational in some context that is worthy of this puzzle.

Sorry, are you asking if Atropos is a waste of time? Yes.

WhiteRabbit

Sorry, are you asking if Atropos is a waste of time? Yes.

Obviously I’m not asking that. And no, you don’t know that for sure. Are you saying “sorry” because you’re offering your ignorance freely and failing to explain anything in a logical manner?

I’m wondering if those small curved lines near the Djinn are the legs of Atropos in this symmetrical view approach.

Hello, Houston!
I’ve been reading the image 8 thread and the verse 1 thread, doing my Q4T due diligence. In the verse thread, I noticed something. It’s probably nothing, but I thought I’d share it anyway in case it turns out to be a lead.
Wilhouse posted this pic of the CZ aqua tunnel:
A beautiful sight, I can see why Preiss chose it with the carefully selected term “water veers.”
Plus it’s symmetrical, a rare sight in the world of modern art and…
Wait a minute, it’s not quite symmetrical:
That placard on the left doesn’t match the three on the right.
Now, normally, I would’ve just dismissed this and forgot all about it. But we know from picture 9 and others that Preiss seemed to love breaking symmetry. So if I noticed this symmetry break, it’s plausible he did too. That got me thinking, why exactly is this placard different? Well, not only is it alone on the left side, but the end is raised slightly:
So, while the other three placards outline the shape of the triangle, the odd one out makes a trapezoid:
Again, this is probably nothing, and placards can be moved regularly. But, as far as I’ve seen, nobody’s matched this shape yet, and it is right there breaking symmetry in the aqua tunnel.
Wilhouse, or anyone, is there any indication of what that placard said, and when it was put there?

erexere

Looks forced.

erexere

I see your excitement about the dragon but It doesn’t seem like a pure match.

WhiteRabbit

Sorry, are you asking if Atropos is a waste of time? Yes.

erexere

FYI, this is why people are gun-shy about commenting on your posts, even though you are a pretty cool dude to talk to. Golden rule.

People don’t have to be shy to comment on my offerings.
Fair enough. I’ve offered a short opinion without much clarification and not always seemed amicable or agreeable.
I did explain to some effect what makes a visual a forced fit. I wasn’t being a jerk like Whiterabbit. I happen to think it’s better to explore possibilities of good puzzle design rather than assume everything is random scavenger crap.
When you find a good visual or multiple visuals, does it matter what steps you took to get there? I think so. Do I need to make a better effort to describe those steps?
When I saw that dragon at the senior center, I didn’t understand the steps that were taken to get there, so I called it forced. I should’ve asked for clarification on how you get there and feel absolutely confident that’s the right spot.
I like you’re trapezoid. It’s subtle and compliments the line for water veering. I see tilted pier blocks on either side of the theater roof are not a trapezoid shape. I still think they closely resemble that tilted stone in the painting. I also see that water falling on a sloped roof is also a veering or cchange of direction for the water. Also, I’m a sucker for that book quote being on the same page as the talk about the Fates. And the name Wood on the sculpture. And the equal-length diamond center of the face of the sculpture. I really think there’s an “end of the line” kind of process here that takes shape at the Atropos.

Thanks, wilhouse! You were great on the podcasts

That’s very kind of you to say so.
Wilhouse

I’m still waiting for Fox to weigh in.
wilhouse

I think it is in the dirt area by the party building, but it is a big area and will take a lot of digging.  I can’t see what Preiss saw, so I can’t find the exact same clues.  I’m still looking at the old photos to try and get a better idea.
Wilhouse

my suggestion…….?……
get a backhoe and dig the whole dirt area up
after all….with all of the time spent there with the park curator…you must own 1/2 stock in the place
it is there wilhouse…& i feel you will be the next lucky soul to unearth the next elusive casque.

whew….sorry bout the wait Wilhouse….been away from these boards way too long.
I do indeed like your ideas.  Your post seems like you felt like you had to convince me…..quite the contrary Wil, I have always thought that we are just missing that last piece of the puzzle which will lead you to the Houston casque.  It IS THERE…but where?

Hey all,
Just thought I would mention (to go along with the immigration theme) that Houston has a large Arab population(particulary Saudi) as it is home to the US headquarters of ARAMCO(the Saudi oil company) and Arab immigration into Houston would have started at least in the 70’s.
digger7

I just remembered something I have been sitting on for quite some time that I figured may be worth sharing.  We all know that the arabian looking fellow is called a Djinn.  Now, if you have a little time on your hands or need something to peruse while on the john, read this:
http://www.boop.org/jan/justso/camel.htm
in his collection of these short stories called “Just So Stories” there is also one titled “How did the rhino get his skin”
take a look at the first paragraph of the short poem at the end:
“THE Camel’s hump is an ugly lump
Which well you may see at the Zoo;
But uglier yet is the hump we get
From having too little to do.”
Is there a zoo near H Park? ….. or does Rudyard Kipling come into play in the area?
just some ideas………

doh!  The Zoo is IN H Park.

Fox, take a look at the picture I took that Catherwood posted in one of her responses. It shows the pillar with the rhino on top of it. TOO coincidental.
wilhouse

Apologies if this has already been answered, but the proposed solution on PBworks focuses on a spot NW of McGovern lake – has anyone probed the area Southeast of the obelisk (East / Southeast of the lake)? I’m convinced that some of the paintings help pinpoint the location of the casque by spatial relationships between objects in the painting and the jewel. If you follow that logic for this painting, the casque would be buried southeast of the obelisk and northwest of a bend in the train tracks (min train).

Norsey

Apologies if this has already been answered, but the proposed solution on PBworks focuses on a spot NW of McGovern lake – has anyone probed the area Southeast of the obelisk (East / Southeast of the lake)? I’m convinced that some of the paintings help pinpoint the location of the casque by spatial relationships between objects in the painting and the jewel. If you follow that logic for this painting, the casque would be buried southeast of the obelisk and northwest of a bend in the train tracks (min train).

Have a look at the history of the park and the reflection pool/ obelisk. Historic aerial photos show that this area has been greatly changed. Also, the lake has been massively expanded, trainline realigned and moved, etc.
If you’re considering that area and those objects, your best bet is to start with these historic aerials to make sure you’re starting from the right reference locations.

Norsey

Apologies if this has already been answered, but the proposed solution on PBworks focuses on a spot NW of McGovern lake – has anyone probed the area Southeast of the obelisk (East / Southeast of the lake)? I’m convinced that some of the paintings help pinpoint the location of the casque by spatial relationships between objects in the painting and the jewel. If you follow that logic for this painting, the casque would be buried southeast of the obelisk and northwest of a bend in the train tracks (min train).

Yes. I have probed/dug inside the train loop due east of the lake. It is right near the train station. The train station is in the same spot is was in 1982. the tracks in that area are in basically the same spot as they were Now instead of of taking a hard left due west the train follows the outskirts of the park. I dug up a very large rock about 12 inches down. Most of the trees in the area to the east of the lake were pine trees and most were knocked over in the hurricane in 2003. Most of the area east of the lake is roped off limits the train can pass through but not people. They also planted low palm like tree bushes clustered together with a wood bridge passing over
The area on the wiki has been throughly probed up to 2 ft deep. there is nothing there.

Norsey

Apologies if this has already been answered, but the proposed solution on PBworks focuses on a spot NW of McGovern lake – has anyone probed the area Southeast of the obelisk (East / Southeast of the lake)? I’m convinced that some of the paintings help pinpoint the location of the casque by spatial relationships between objects in the painting and the jewel. If you follow that logic for this painting, the casque would be buried southeast of the obelisk and northwest of a bend in the train tracks (min train).

I’ve explored HP several times. There’s no way the wiki is right. Also, the area SE of the obelisk is unchanged, except for lake expansion, and there are a number of indicators that it’s part of the route BP wanted us to take. Unless it’s in that area, Miller’s hill (at Miller Theatre), or the area behind Miller Theatre, it’s probably gone.

We’ve been applying Verse 1 to this image because of the 982 train and the “Cold as glass” Glassell school. I’ve even said this is the one connection that’s not in doubt. Well, I have doubt. While studying Verse 7, I found a new possibility when I looked up something online. It came up unintentionally and unexpectedly, but it’s a great match for a line in V7. So, is anyone who can help me willing and able to go to the Stella Link area? I live in Spring, so it’s a bit of a drive for me just for that. Email me if you are, and I’ll let you know what I found.

Hey RacerX330,
We do have a facebook page for the houston search. Just go to the facebook seach box
and type in “The Secret A Treasure Hunt (Houston) Byron Preiss”. Request to join.
I’ve been to the Ideson library several times.They have lots of original documents of hermann park,
the zoo from the 20s, 30s, 50s, 70s etc. A great research library.

erexere

Why do you make such a big deal out of my posts when you dont put anything on the board to evaluate? You’ve shared a lot of words and mentioned some places and ideas about how to go about some alternative or “acceptable” approach, but what that is exactly or some concrete subject of focus has yet to be seen. Please SHARE…or hang out and participate.
People should really work on this and stop talking about facepalm or drawing penises.

Maybe you should stop drawing penises and making stupid posts and we would be able to focus on something else.

Unknown

Unknown:
Maybe you should stop drawing penises and making stupid posts and we would be able to focus on something else.

Just to be clear, I am not a fan of most of Eric’s theories, but to blame him for the lack of progress on the puzzle seems a little unfair to me. And he’s not the one drawing penises (peneses, penii). That would be my incorrigible friend 421. If you don’t like what Eric has to offer, to the point that you find it distracting, it’s a very simple matter to put him on ignore. Personally, I think that would be a mistake, but that’s just my opinion.

wk

Since you mention perspective, here is image 8 with some perspective lines drawn. Their convergence on the far left sand dune is known as the vanishing point.
(8838)

pretty sure at some point wilhouse found those sand dunes as a physical entity near the childrens zoo,
you should check with him

Has anyone ever thought that the iconic building being depicted in this image could be Pennzoil Place? Can they be seen at all from Hermann Park?
I ask because there are blocks shaped like Pennzoil Place in the center of this image, and Pennzoil Place is very specifically shaped to play with PERSPECTIVE. Perhaps the directions to cross the track require you to keep Pennzoil Place in the same perspective as in the image?
http://i.imgur.com/9LCCNzv.png
https://www.flickr.com/photos/telwink/6043847393/

Since you mention perspective, here is image 8 with some perspective lines drawn. Their convergence on the far left sand dune is known as the vanishing point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_point
Notice that this vanishing point is within the image and not outside. So the instruction in verse 1 which says “Perspective should not be lost” may be very significant.
Note also the perspective line to the rhino’s eye.
One other line which is not part of this perspective is the line I have drawn through the columns behind the low wall at the rear of the terrace.
(8838)

Hi Robert, and welcome to the hunt. In my opinion the evidence in favor of those areas is extremely weak, certainly not strong enough to justify the commitment and expense for an actual dig. Especially important, there is no precise location indicated.

Hi,
I’m new here and just found out about this hunt around a week ago. I am from Houston and have been reading most of these threads along with the wiki page. I haven’t seen yall mention it but has anyone cheked out the theory of it being possibly hidden it the trees listed in the following 3 areas on this page? [http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/86302954/Image%2008] Specifically area 3 seemed like it was a very possible location when I visited there this afternoon. Y’all have been working at this a while and would love to hear what yall have to say aboout this theory.
Thanks much and happy hunting!

besides the map and the lat / long, that’s about it.
the rest are all locators inside the children’s zoo.
wilhouse

Hi…
Sorry I’ve been swamped with work lately, and couldn’t post.
So, another detail in the image that I believe endorses the fact that the big sphere on the column in image 8 represents the Burke Baker Planetarium: the accompanying verse for this image mentions ‘December’. Lots of people have speculated on the significance of this mention. In the early 80’s, the Burke Baker Planetarium began showing a presentation during Christmas season called ‘The Star of Bethlehem’. It explored possible scientific astronomical explanations for what the ‘star’ mentioned in the baby Jesus story could’ve been. It was a very popular show when it came out, and I remember it stimulating a bit of controversy from the right-wing bible thumpers who didn’t like the implication that the star was anything other than the hand of ‘god’, or whatever.
When looking at image 8, you see the giant sphere (which I believe represented the planetarium dome), and a single bright star above it. On one of the pillars you also see a camel, which is customarily shown in ‘birth of Jesus/Christmas star’ artwork. I think all of these things, plus the mention of ‘December’, point to the parkland area which was directly adjacent to the planetarium, now unfortunately occupied by the IMAX Theater and Butterfly Center. It was a large tract of land full of trees and clearings before they built the IMAX/Butterfly center. I think the column that the sphere sits on and other visual details in the image were likely in this area, and now no longer exist.
I understand that this may be a bit of looking for details to confirm a theory I think is clever…but really, that’s all any of this is.

…or its a reference to the magic theater of Hermann Hesse’ novel Steppenwolf which lends its name to the band that sings “Magic Carpet Ride”.
(P.S. I know most of what I have to offer is complete bullshit.)

erexere

magic carpet:___________::locomotive:track

where does magic carpet come from?

My initial attention on the magic carpet comes from nothing other than the Arabian folklore.  After awhile I started to see the columns in the image as things supporting things, which is essentially what columns do anyway.  A column of twisting air (maybe it’s water) is supporting the djinn.  Well, a magic carpet carries one up into the air as well.
Maybe the djinn is folding his arms and thinking, “damn, who took my carpet?”

Glossiphoniidae

where does magic carpet come from?

Unknown

Unknown:
Now, in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia’s Mountains of Kaf, appeared a caravan of magic wrought carpets, and upon them rode the banished elder spirits of Araby: monstrous Deevs, desert-born giants; the Peri, bright and beautiful as starlight; and the wish-granting Djinn, formed of smokeless fire, at last free from Man’s lamps and bottles.

Unknown

Unknown:
The fabulous carpet weaving techniques of the Djinn and Peri were admired and then mastered by the people who were their neighbors in the vast and pleasant desert regions of the New World’s Southwest. (It was the sort of place to which the Spirits of Araby were naturally attracted).

Unknown

Unknown:
Like many fabulous, fantastic tales told by Native Americans, this Nootka legend appears to contain some historical truth. The part about the horses, for instance, sounds factual enough…Thus, the tale may explain the mysterious disappearance of the Fair People.

It’s from the introduction.
The Passage to the New World
The Vanishing
The carpet story helps to fictionally tie this desert image to the American Southwest. (I think that’s probably all there is to it.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_United_States
The section in the introduction I find most baffling is the lengthy anecdote about Yo-Rib and the horse-stealing.
I don’t know where BP got this horse-stealing stuff from, but it sounds like he was thinking of some particular episode.
(Incidentally I just noticed that the Mountains of Kaf were mythical mountains made of emerald; doubt it has any significance though.)

further down the page:

erexere

further down the page:

Unknown

Unknown:
You don’t believe the quote from Melville opens up that possibility, given that it calls out a the group of three mythological sisters, one of which just happens to be named Atropos

So, can we pick something from a little further down the page? The next page? 10 pages later? The last page?
So, what you’re saying is not true. The Melville quote does
not
call out a group of three mythological sisters… rather, another portion of the book does.

Glossiphoniidae

Unfortunately, this puzzle is a dichotomously scored multiple-choice question. And the key is not “atropos.”

Surely it all depends on asking the right question(s). Why do you say “atropos” is not the key? You don’t believe the quote from Melville opens up that possibility, given that it calls out a the group of three mythological sisters, one of which just happens to be named Atropos?

erexere

Surely it all depends on asking the right question(s). Why do you say “atropos” is not the key? You don’t believe the quote from Melville opens up that possibility, given that it calls out a the group of three mythological sisters, one of which just happens to be named Atropos?

Where is the group of three mythological sisters here, erexere?
And, the terminology I was using was a play on the quote and test terminology… you mentioned partial credit (typically given in multi-select questions); but I was pointing out that there is no partial credit in this puzzle (i.e., the answer is either right or wrong – dichotomous scoring). The “key” in testing is the correct answer.

wilhouse

I told the zoo director to go see him privately, after we leave, to find out if he thinks we’re nuts or not. On the other hand, even if he does, as long as he dozes for us, I don’t care..
wilhouse

I wish BP was here to see how diligent you and everyone else is about this hunt…

boogieman

I wish BP was here to see how diligent you and everyone else is about this hunt…

he is Boogie, he is…
wilhouse

Dero, I would like to hear the rest of your theory, as I am sure others do as well. Do not get deterred by 421.
Part of the fun of this hunt is to hear others’ ideas, and bat around different theories, as you alluded to several times. Some people here are apparently not in it for fun, but most of us are.

Unknown

Unknown:
Part of the fun of this hunt is to hear others’ ideas, and bat around different theories

From where I sit, and with regard to this forum, at least as it exists today, nothing could be further from the truth IMO.

WhiteRabbit

Seems to be more or less what he did in Milwaukee.

WR,
I think the point 421 is trying to make is, the reason you end up at a wooded spot with no distinction about it in the verse, is because something was missed. No doubt you were probably led there by your interpretation of the verse, but that isn’t where the casque is.
I realized this while digging my 7th or 8th hole at the spot where the path leads you….in regards to that city.

Just so it’s clear to all…
I am not refuting D’s theory, nor am I trying to promote another. I don’t even know the digspot to D’s theory, but I’ll conceded already that it’s plausible. Rather, I am putting two theories that equally utilize the clues next to one another in an attempt to highlight one huge glaring fact/question/problem…
Preiss made the first goal of the puzzle to determine which verse paired with which image. We all know that depending on which verse you use, you can find many different spots in any single city. It’s evident that Preiss attempted to overlap the clues and possibilities in order to make the pairing difficult. It’s also evident that even using the correct verse, there seems to be many ways to interpret where a casque may be within a city.
If clearly Preiss’ goal was NOT to have a hundred holes dug in each city, then should we not have a way to KNOW when we are right, especially given the directions?
Now, if there is a way to KNOW one is right before digging, then certainly that would have to be trial-and-errored (i.e., require successful holes to be dug) before one could figure out how it could be KNOWN. However, it would also require that we were GIVEN digspots where the casque did NOT exist. See, by doing this, we could KNOW that there was something we were missing…
the secret
.
In Chicago, they were led with no uncertainty to a casque, no ambiguities, no artistic renderings… just straightforward clues and polaroids on a path. In Cleveland, they just needed a picture of the wall and columns – find the thing, find that the dig directions describe it perfectly. These objects and clues were huge and plentiful, and then they seemingly just start disappearing.
Ever wonder why in most other cities we try to do the same thing and end up following a path that leads to, well, a spot where nothing the verse says should exists exists? A spot where we can’t really dig with any sort of certainty at all. A place Preiss is most certainly leading us to/around, but that the dig clues do not fit a bit without stretching like Armstrong. A spot that is no better than another spot except our personal bias. A spot that we flat out shouldn’t or can’t dig. Pick one.
I think the first two finds were integral to moving the puzzle forward, but I also think they were consumed by the forum in one of the worst possible ways… It seemingly led to everyone just trying to find a plausible path, find a thing, and then dig at/around it. After all, that’s how the first two worked, right?
What if they worked like that, but that they also worked in another way – one in which you could KNOW you were digging at the correct spot? What if a few were/are pretty straightforward, to get you going (heck, even Preiss helped a bit in Chicago), and you needed to extrapolate how to solve the others? Cause clearly, we ain’t in Kansas anymore when we get to Montreal or New York.

WhiteRabbit

I don’t know if the four alike are necessarily trees. But given his predilection for the things, and the continuation of the quote:
In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight [only stands at the caprice of the minutest event — the falling of a leaf]
Falls gently
…I think it’s quite possible that the “small, split, three winged and slight” description is not the “four alike”, but something in the middle of them, and trees may be involved.
But anyway, I’m looking forward to hearing the rest of your theory…

I’ve been thinking about that….a LOT. I like my interpretation of the ‘4 alike’ thing…but that’s mainly because I think it would be incredibly clever. Doesn’t mean it’s right. So, during this hunt, I’m constantly having to differentiate ‘impressing myself’ from finding the actual solution.
Here’s something else I noticed:
Looking at the 2 puzzles which have been solved…each image shows the actual spot where the item is buried. The actual visual marker is pictured in the imagery. In Chicago, the fence post. In Cleveland, the wall.
If this holds true in all of the puzzles, the actual, literal image of where this treasure is buried is pictured in that illustration.
Thing is, in both Chicago and Cleveland, the paintings contain a LOT of literal images…some of which dictate the city, and others which dictate the general area. So every image you recognize isn’t necessarily a marker to ‘dig here’.
THAT SAID, among all of those images, there were a couple that said, ‘dig here’.
So, I’m studying that Houston image…like I have been for the last few years.
Anyways, i’ll finish my theory later. Today is NFL Game Day…what a lovely day!

accidental post – please delete

May I weigh in for just a moment?
First, I agree with Glassell as the starting point, as I proposed that a decade or so ago (more?). I’ve lost count.
I’ve too spent a lot of time at those fountains and I really like your analysis. I wish I had the nerve to dig around there but it’s so public, you’re asking for trouble. Never the less if you can narrow it down it might be interesting. However, as we both know, that whole area’s been redone and it might not be there any more.
Everyone on this board knows where I think it is so there’s no need for me to repeat it. Let me say one thing though…
I spent much time talking with the zoo director from the 80’s John Donaho. I asked him point blank, could Preiss have dug a hole in the CZ without being seen and stopped? He said basically that during those years, the back gate was generally not locked, and if it was it could be very late at night. There were workers with shovels there all the time working on the zoo. At night there were not a lot of visitors but the gates were still open. If Preiss walked in the back gate with a shovel and started digging no one would stop him. If he had a hard hat he might be able to do it any time he wanted. It was his opinion, and one that I value highly, that it was absolutely possible to dig a hole at night without being questioned or stopped. Since John was there I place a lot of stock in his answer.
This board has been around a long time and debate has always been it’s mantra. I’m interested in seeing where your theory ends up!
regards
wilhouse

wilhouse

I spent much time talking with the zoo director from the 80’s John Donaho. I asked him point blank, could Preiss have dug a hole in the CZ without being seen and stopped? He said basically that during those years, the back gate was generally not locked, and if it was it could be very late at night. There were workers with shovels there all the time working on the zoo. At night there were not a lot of visitors but the gates were still open. If Preiss walked in the back gate with a shovel and started digging no one would stop him. If he had a hard hat he might be able to do it any time he wanted. It was his opinion, and one that I value highly, that it was absolutely possible to dig a hole at night without being questioned or stopped. Since John was there I place a lot of stock in his answer.

I understand what you’re saying, Wilhouse. I’m just saying that it requires LOTS of ‘ifs’…and I don’t think that Preiss would include a hunt that entails committing a ‘breaking-and-entering’. It just makes no logical sense to me. It is totally out of step with the 2 treasures that have been found. Those were included in places that granted access 24 hours a day. A person could easily go search at 3 in the afternoon or at 3am. Those spots also experienced blocks of time where they were isolated. They were places a bit out of the way. Forgotten corners of larger areas.
This template doesn’t fit the Children’s Zoo. As I said, the ONLY time the zoo would’ve offered Preiss enough time to dig a hole, bury the casque, cover the hole, and do it in a way that left the spot looking untouched would’ve been in the middle of the night, when the zoo was closed. MANY ‘if’s’ have to become certainties for this to happen. Again, the Children’s Zoo was near the back of the zoo. It was a zoo within the zoo. It was gated..inside of a gated zoo.
Remember too, in the 2 locations which have been solved, they were areas that allowed diggers to do so at their leisure. There wasn’t a metaphorical stopwatch on them, as if ‘we gotta hurry and do this before the cops / employees / security guard’ comes. They had time to spend on the task. Time to make mistakes and dig in the wrong spots for a while. HOURS, in fact.
Finally…again, I don’t believe Preiss would’ve included a hunt that required searchers to look for it in the same manner that he’d have to hide it, if it was in a zoo (i.e.) in the act of breaking-an-entering on private, gated property. It would be inviting trouble, from a legal point of view…both for him, as well as other people he enticed to imitate him.
Again, all of this is just my opinion…and I respect all of you guys and gals who have the mental make-up to try and crack these things: it’s maddening.
But I think the CZ theory is reaching…reaching that is primarily predicated by those animal-head totem posts…which I believe were only visual markers to say that the zoo was in the general area, similar to the fountain the centaur is holding in Cleveland’s puzzle image.

I respect your opinion and I’m fine with it.
The only thing I argue with is that there are no markers in the CZ:
– columns with horizontal divisions (totems in the CZ), nowhere else to be found
– elf fountain (hat on the djinn and the fountain itself)
– light poles with orbs on them exactly as in the image (those poles are no where else but in the CZ area and a few in the zoo proper)
wilhouse

Dero72

Dero, are you having troubles with the forum buttons? Please don’t just quote yourself; that’s not a new post. Add a comment. Nested quotes do not make the conversation any more meaningful, especially when I can see the original text right above in the previous post.
As for me, I dislike the poetic interpretation of clues. I don’t think a fountain would ever be described as being “winged” even as an obscure clue. That would be deliberately misleading to me and not at all clever.

catherwood

Dero, are you having troubles with the forum buttons? Please don’t just quote yourself; that’s not a new post. Add a comment. Nested quotes do not make the conversation any more meaningful, especially when I can see the original text right above in the previous post.
As for me, I dislike the poetic interpretation of clues. I don’t think a fountain would ever be described as being “winged” even as an obscure clue. That would be deliberately misleading to me and not at all clever.

Yea…I was having some issues with posting. Don’t quite know how I quoted myself…multiple times. Don’t recall hitting that button.
Oh well…please be assured, I’m not trying to look insane on purpose.
As far as referring to an element of a fountain as ‘winged’…just as poetic as calling the zoo a ‘wood’.
PotatO / PotAto
It’s all good: we’re all on the same team.

Unknown

Unknown:
Sending folks to look for 4 trees in some sort of grouping IN A WOODED PARK is a huge reach to me

Seems to be more or less what he did in Milwaukee.
I don’t know if the four alike are necessarily trees. But given his predilection for the things, and the continuation of the quote:
In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight [only stands at the caprice of the minutest event — the falling of a leaf]
Falls gently
…I think it’s quite possible that the “small, split, three winged and slight” description is not the “four alike”, but something in the middle of them, and trees may be involved.
But anyway, I’m looking forward to hearing the rest of your theory…

MrSeabass

Dero – I was with your theory up until you introduced the MGM lion. You went full erexere with that. Full-on confirmation bias based on irrelevant and completely unconnected items.

Fair enough.
Just trying to account for the space between the Glassell and the Mecom Fountains.
And yet, the illusion to a lion and fear…and the connections from that…I thought, ‘Who knows?’.
None of the other ideas over the last 30 years have solved it, so I figured, ‘think laterally, Dero!’. Admittedly, it could be viewed as waaay laterally.
But I think we end up in the general area…over by those fountains…in between the 4 alike.

So, any news on the big dig, Wilhouse?

hey Eg, just that it is soon, probably near the end of september. We are taking the pictures posted and laying grids on top of them.  This will give us some order in what we are doing.
the plan is to dig an area roughly parallel to the party room about 3-4 feet wide 2 feet deep.  we are told this should take about an hour doing it carefully, looking out for plastic shards.
if we don’t have any luck there, we will move to behind the party house and work some there.
suggestions are welcome.
wilhouse

ok, based on Egbert’s clue of the theme being a hint, this theme is Araby, or Arabia. Arabia, now Saudi Arabia, is technically part of Asia.
Camels are in Asia, and there was one camel in the children’s zoo. There was one elephant too.
The best bet is the contact area itself named Asia. Perhaps in the dirt areas outside of the fence.  The area inside the contact area, where the animals were, is and was hard as rock. They used a special clay to make the area hard so the animals would not root and dig.  The zookeeper told me that even in 82 he doubts that it was possible to dig in that area.
wilhouse

The “strongest tower” reminds me of the rhino. The point by the fishbone is at this tip of the golf course, and I was wondering about the rhino horn as a match.
The rhino head has two larkspur leaves just below it. Spur = spike.

It seems to me he was making sure you knew you were in Hermann Park.  Remember that there was no internet at the time and it would be impossible to find that quote unless you were familiar with Mellvile, and honestly, Pierre is not one of his more popular books.  A cosmic joke by Preiss
wilhouse

Also, WR, I don’t want to discourage you, but Wilhouse’s solution to this hunt is really well-supported by his research.
Obviously, there’s no casque to prove out the efforts of his work — since the CZ obviously changed so much in the intervening years, and was later completely remodeled — but when you look at details like the aqua tunnel (“in the sky the water veers”), the evidence is as persuasive as it gets.

if i recall right, the quote that comes from, he was talking about his parents or ………..maybe it was water, that was why i liked the colonnaded mecom

slappybuns

if i recall right, the quote that comes from, he was talking about his parents

Unknown

Unknown:
But is life, indeed, a thing for all infidel levities, and we, its misdeemed beneficiaries, so utterly fools and infatuate, that what we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event — the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather? Are we so entirely insecure, that that casket, wherein we have placed our holiest and most final joy, and which we have secured by a lock of infinite deftness; can that casket be picked and desecrated at the merest stranger’s touch, when we think that we alone hold the only and chosen key?

(…seems to be talking about the desecration of the shrine of his memory of his father or something…)
http://arthursclassicnovels.com/melville/pierre10.html

I found a visual clue supporting visual that places the camera at the foot of the Atropos Key statue.  I  thought I linked the shape to the moon bench at one time but learned the bench sculpture wasn’t installed till years after this hunt began.  Looking through photos of the Atropos Key I found tthat you could view the Theater through the circular cutout in its mid section and the peaked rooftop makes an exact fit to the shape of the dune in background.  Certainly not proof perfect but it requires no manipulation and wysiswyg meets the minimum requirement for what would support the apex through face to spot at base of light tower idea.
Another observation that I haven’t figured out yet is why are only two of the columns casting shadows?  Then a third shadow is cast by the genie.  These shadows are very long indicating a very low sun which is relative to a long horizon or a hill top.  Anyone else notice anything special about that?

erexere

I found a visual clue supporting visual that places the camera at the foot of the Atropos Key statue.  I  thought I linked the shape to the moon bench at one time but learned the bench sculpture wasn’t installed till years after this hunt began.  Looking through photos of the Atropos Key I found tthat you could view the Theater through the circular cutout in its mid section and the peaked rooftop makes an exact fit to the shape of the dune in background.  Certainly not proof perfect but it requires no manipulation and wysiswyg meets the minimum requirement for what would support the apex through face to spot at base of light tower idea.
Another observation that I haven’t figured out yet is why are only two of the columns casting shadows?  Then a third shadow is cast by the genie.  These shadows are very long indicating a very low sun which is relative to a long horizon or a hill top.  Anyone else notice anything special about that?

I’ve been chatting with wilhouse to see if he wants to go out to Hermann Park this Saturday August 8th 2015. I plan on getting there pretty early in the morning. Im exploring some new leds and plan on digging in one or two spots. Wish us luck…may the treasure hunting gods shine down on us.

Sounds really cool. Don’t let Wilhouse take you to any subterranean tunnels below the ancient site of the Children’s Zoo.

looks like a bunny!
wilhouse

that’s interesting about the shadow, don’t think i’ve ever heard that mentioned.

Thanks for the reminder Wilhouse, I was just using the overhead view as a way of identifying the figure in the trees.  It could be a llama if the ears weren’t so round.  Maybe Snowflake and Pierre had rounder tipped ears than most llamas.

sam i hope i have posted in this jpg, what you see

You nailed it, thanks CW. Nice edit job.

again, knowing the little bit I know about Preiss, this is a guy who flew around the country with a shovel.  You’re not going to need to use rectangles, or any math, to solve these.
wilhouse

I find this to be very non-math and more of a photography perspective.  Let’s not forget Preiss traveled around the country with a camera.  I’m discovering that the spiral is a tool used in art and architecture.  A geometric strategy might be the breakthrough we need for this particular image.  Using a city map and using a standard drafting compass you can construct this shape after picking an area and fitting in the rectangles of proper proportion.
I use this example in the picture as a clue that we should try this.
and here is a better rendition using Adobe Lightroom 4 (free trial).

knowing what I know about Preiss, I doubt he would have used logarithms…
wilhouse

erexere, I’ve always wondered what that rock was about in the image. I never could find a rock that looked like that.  My question is, what in the verse gets you to where you are looking?
wilhouse

I wouldn’t stress the need to use a logarithm really its just putting rectangles together in a special case that simulates a logarithm.  This is a fascinating idea, and has been used before, reference the TV show Criminal Minds, Season 4, episode 8.

Hi wilhouse!
I really don’t think there’s a literal stone that looks like that.  I think it’s a representation of something which is sunken.  Estimation tells me that if it’s a rectangular stone and about 60% is above the surface.  This might be an application of the Golden Ratio if it is exactly 61.8%.
You ask me how the verse gets me to where I’m looking?  I think the verse is clear enough in giving us directions to travel from a northern position in the southerly direction to the 982 train.  From there we walk north along the edge of the wood and lake towards the Pioneer monument where we stop to consider our perspective. If we are to consider that the Sam Houston statue (in the center of four alike: trees) is represented by the camel in the image, then we notice he’s facing the wrong direction. In order to fix this we must cross the miniature rail and trek north to the other side of the statue some distance so that when we turn to face south Sam Houston is looking to the left like the camel, rhino, and genie. I think the split where Fannin (two-way) turns into one-way streets Fannin and San Jacinto is the perfect spot to achieve this perspective.  I’m entertaining the theory that this street scenario embodies the ambiguity that Preiss sought through his application of the Pierre: or, the Ambiguities book reference with “our tower of strongest delight”.  I also agree with Forest Blight that the “cold as glass” line points to an Ayn Rand passage in Anthem which describes a feel as a hand touches a train rail.  I wonder if the rail we are to follow here is the logarithmic spiral which extends out eventually towards the Fannin split, also the spot depicted by the bright star in the image.

And let’s not forget that BP actually confirmed that the Houston CZ is the proper location to dig. Besides actually unearthing a casque, that’s about as certain as you can get.

wilhouse,
Point taken, I too agree that Herman park is almost certainly the spot, at the time I spotted all the columns and then went back through the older post and realized it had not been mentioned I posted the picture hurriedly without really giving any of the verses any thought…..afterward while trying to get a verse to fit I realized I couldnt get it to work but maybe a person such as yourself could have some luck….
I threw it out there hoping………..I took your post wrong…….sorry!!
I hope you find the casque!

forest_blight

And let’s not forget that BP actually confirmed that the Houston CZ is the proper location to dig. Besides actually unearthing a casque, that’s about as certain as you can get.

well, yes, that is true.  But that sneaky guy also said that St. Louis was correct, and that might be St. Louis in Montreal!!
wilhouse

Good point! Nothing for granted.

wilhouse

If you have not done so, please read my back posts on both image 8 and verse 1.  What you will find is that the poles you have shown are totem poles that exist in the children’s zoo.
There’s no need to go looking for them elsewhere.
wilhouse

wilhouse
My apologies for posting about the Sam Houston statue, I missed the post on the verse…read mostly on the image post.
However I do take offense on the Tranquility park issue……although I agree that Herman park seems to be a good match, that does not make it the ONLY possible site, until the casque is found I believe all possibilities should be explored, I posted the Tranquility park picture because I had not seen it posted and it does match the picture quite well. As with other possible casque locations there seems to be many different ideas as to where to look, I was only trying to help by posting an idea……but it seems you have already figured out the location to this casque so no further ideas should be posted unless they pertain to Herman park.
Again, sorry about the Sam Houston picture repeat that I deleted and I hope you do find the casque in Herman park……..but other ideas dont hurt, isnt this what the forum is all about?

mobhit, look, I am not trying to dissuade anyone from creative thinking.  If you’ll read back, you’ll see lots of other ideas besides Hermann Park, and I don’t typically try to stop anyone from exploring. If you are totally convinced it is tranquility park, great, work it.
But the verse says to start at the 982. Where is the 982?  You have to put everything together. Verse and image.
If you can make a verse fit tranquility park, and you have good correspondence between the image and the location, I say go for it. You don’t need my approval for anything!!
wilhouse

Im really warming up to the idea that the djinni wearing the head covering borrows from the Indiana Jones idea.

Hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas, Happy Holidays and a great new year in 2016.
My wife and I wish all the best to you and yours.
We dug three holes this year. One hole in the zoo and two holes southwest of the obelisk this year.
Im 90 percent sure its in the zoo but 10 percent of me thinks there could be a slim chance its in hermann park somewhere.
Cheers to Q4T folks!
P.S. We will be in New Orleans for New Years week. We will take a day or two to site see some areas of interest for the NOLA casque.

I know I am swimming upstream and that many do not even consider alternative theories for Houston, but I believe that a reference to V5 may be present in illustration 8. At P2 (bottom left corner), there is a paving stone that is broken in two. That broken stone sits within two rows of 11 paving stones. One broken stone in 2 pieces, 22 total stones in those rows. They are the only rows in the illustration that can definitively be counted due to lack of obstruction. Two Twenty Two?
That observation might confirm a suspicion of mine (based on other factors) that I8 might actually be paired to V5. This theory takes into account the multiple images present in the illustration that were previously considered Red Herrings and puts them center stage. Is the 222 straw just too long of one to be grasping at?

shecrab

I’m going to sum up my thoughts on this image.

Unknown

Unknown:
I believe the casque was not buried in the Children’s zoo

Unknown

Unknown:
The shape of the column and globe at the top is the same as the shape of the pool topped by the circular Sam Houston Statue area.

Unknown

Unknown:
The tilted block under the camel column looks like the roofline of the outdoor theater.

Unknown

Unknown:
The column with the ball on top looks like a water tower to me.

Unknown

Unknown:
And the other thing about that star – why make it LOOK like a compass unless that’s what it is?

Unknown

Unknown:
“Perspective should not be lost.” We have taken this as pretty much a throwaway line – just a phrase that points to the miniature train as opposed to the 982, which was a full-sized train. But what if it means something else?

Unknown

Unknown:
“In the sky the water veers” – it’s been suggested that this is the Aqua tunnel. However…

Although I don’t agree with everything you say here, and I’ll defend the Garden Center with my last breath, I do agree with quite a lot of it.
Yep. It’s the most obvious place, but I don’t think it’s that simple.
Yep.
Yep. At this point you’re perilously close to agreeing with the overhead analysis I’ve been posting since last April. Now you only need to acknowledge the curve of the Garden Center and you’ve cracked it.
I actually like the water tower idea. I’m starting to think the “strongest tower of our delight [which] falls gently in December night” might be a fanciful description of a tower of water; a fountain, the “spout”. Snow is water after all. “The name of the Lord is a strong tower” and “The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life” (Proverbs).
Yep, the star is compass-like, and possibly has some kind of directional significance. (With its four arms, it might also tie in with “in the centre of four” somehow.)
I also think this has more significance. (I’m currently wondering if it’s an instruction to maintain a particular sightline when moving from one spot to another.)
Agreed, BP deliberately confuses and misleads with ambiguous statements. Although the water veering in the sky does suggest the aqua tunnel, it also suggests various other things, and I think it’s actually a fountain. I think various references in the verse which we’ve taken to be at separate locations are actually all talking about the same more limited set of landmarks. The spout, the tower which falls gently in December, the water veering in the sky, could all indicate the same fountain.
It’s like “Ascend the 92 steps; after climbing the grand 200” – two cryptic ways of describing one thing. And let’s not forget the difficulty of other lines like “cast in copper” and “woman with harpsichord” in that verse. Some of these puzzles are very obscure, and this is one of them.

the star in the img….
there is a planetarium, in the science building,was it there in 81

(…yeah, 1964, my new favourite date…see V1.)