erexere

Does the jewel placement in the image reveal a kind of real placement between two points that would be characterized in the image? We don’t know for sure yet. It’s unclear if that approach is supported by evidence in Cleveland’s or Chicago’s images, so….

That being said, in the large number of years since chicago and now cleveland,and many people trying, no one has been able to show a single plausible theory that indicates the placement of the jewel in the image has anything to do with the actual placement of the casque. But, if you want to say it’s still unclear, thats ok.

Unknown

Unknown:
That being said, in the large number of years since chicago and now cleveland,and many people trying, no one has been able to show a single plausible theory that indicates the
value
of the jewel in the image has anything to do with the actual
difficulty of the puzzle
. But, if you want to say it’s still unclear, thats ok.

Fixed it for you.

Euhirudinea

Fixed it for you.

Thank you for fixing that.
Here for your notes file…
Monday., Oct. 25, 1982.
St Louis Post-Dispatch
By John J. Archibald, of the Post-Dispatch Staff
” The Total Value of the stones is estimated at $10,000, but they are not equal. ‘ The stones that are worth the most will be the hardest to find. ‘ Priess said.”

maltedfalcon

By John J. Archibald, of the Post-Dispatch Staff
” The Total Value of the stones is estimated at $10,000, but they are not equal. ‘ The stones that are worth the most will be the hardest to find. ‘ Priess said.”

Unknown

Unknown:
The Total Value of the stones is estimated at $10,000, but they are not equal.

So, there is a range of value, from the cheapest to the most expensive. And if we total that value (keeping in mind that the value of precious stones fluctuates over time), in 1982 it would have added up to about $10K. Which makes the average cost of each prize jewel(s) about $833.33.
Now I suppose it’s possible that the easiest puzzle had a prize valued at $833.28 and the hardest puzzle had a prize valued at $833.39, but it’s more likely that the range of values was a little more significant, say $50. Which means (assuming a normal distribution of value) that the easiest puzzle had a prize valued at about $550 and the hardest one had a prize valued at about twice that much, or about $1,100.
The jewel that Brian received was worth over $1K, but we can dismiss this because it’s possible that he got the wrong one, or that the value had changed significantly in the ensuing 20 years. But the emerald for the Chicago puzzle was appraised at almost $1,500, and that was in 1983.
So, are we to assume that Chicago is one of the hardest, if not the hardest puzzle to solve? I know what I think, but as Matt says, if you want to say it’s still unclear, that’s ok.

erexere

I toy with those ideas all the time. Does the jewel placement in the image reveal a kind of real placement between two points that would be characterized in the image? We don’t know for sure yet. It’s unclear if that approach is supported by evidence in Cleveland’s or Chicago’s images, so….
Re: Josh’s comment on being told to take a train. That’s not a bad assessment, but I think the important idea is really to understand that a task is going to be a verb, an action that one must take. The 9 8 2 being identified as a train, fulfills this goal in an interesting way. It may be meant to just “go” to the 982 train, or it might mean as Josh says, “take a train, but I much prefer the fact that the word “train” itself is one of those words which happens to be capable of acting as a noun or a verb, therefore it stands to reason that Preiss wants our “task” to actually involve an action of “training” to take place, which I believe to be aiming, something like finding a point by aligning two points on the ground, because it would actually be helpful to describe some aspect of how to find the casque so as to not allow only guessing on where to dig.

when i dug, i did use the jewels location to dig around the manhole in the woods there…it was the only idea i had at the time, but i dont think it was a very good one…

erexere

I toy with those ideas all the time. Does the jewel placement in the image reveal a kind of real placement between two points that would be characterized in the image? We don’t know for sure yet. It’s unclear if that approach is supported by evidence in Cleveland’s or Chicago’s images, so….
Re: Josh’s comment on being told to take a train. That’s not a bad assessment, but I think the important idea is really to understand that a task is going to be a verb, an action that one must take. The 9 8 2 being identified as a train, fulfills this goal in an interesting way. It may be meant to just “go” to the 982 train, or it might mean as Josh says, “take a train, but I much prefer the fact that the word “train” itself is one of those words which happens to be capable of acting as a noun or a verb, therefore it stands to reason that Preiss wants our “task” to actually involve an action of “training” to take place, which I believe to be aiming, something like finding a point by aligning two points on the ground, because it would actually be helpful to describe some aspect of how to find the casque so as to not allow only guessing on where to dig.

we know we have to take the train because the ayn rand quote suggests we must go through the train tunnel.

the other side of the fence are the buildings. you are looking at the auditorium, and to the center is some exhibits with nothing in them any more. the cart is right in the middle of the 4 areas.  inside the fences are the contact areas.  the contact area has a special clay layer, the zoo director tells me, that is as hard as rock so the animals couldn’t dig their way out. it is like asphalt, but looks like dirt.  I know more about zoos than I ever thought I would.
so no, inside the contact areas is out of the question in terms of burying the casque.
wilhouse

Egbert

There is apparently something which may be a modern art sculpture on the right side of the picture, disguised to look like a sand dune, I guess.  It would be nice if that sculpture was somewhere around Hermann Park.
There is also something next to the column with the camel on it.  A large sundial?  Any ideas?  Boy, that highres pic feature would come in handy here…… (hint, hint)
As for the stone floor, good catch on the lines resembling RR tracks.  But what about that one by itself in the lower left?  hmmm.  Also, if you notice, there is a clear demarcation of gray stones (the genie side) from the tan stones.  Perhaps this is some geographic outline?

This is from one of the original posts on this thread.  Wilhouse, in preparation for the final dig, it may be useful to revisit everything that anyone has brought up regarding this image — perhaps there is a clue which has been forgotten or not pursued.  There are a few things here for which I do not recall we ever came up with answers:
1.  The gray vs. tan stones.
2.  The split stone in the lower left.
3.  The sculpture-thing which is made to look like the side of a sand dune.
4.  The sundial-thing near the camel.
One or more of these items may point to a part of Herrmann Park.  Anyone?

The sculpture thing behind the Rhino,
looks a lot in shape like the pen numbered
’19’ from the 1982 map.
To orient yourselves, the rhinos were(are)
in pen ’29’ and the camels were(are) in
pen ’22’.
If the llamsas were housed in pen ‘3’
then this would be the correct orientation
for the casque.
I will try and post the image, but I took it from
Wilhouse’s photos of 2004 visit.
http://share.dell.shutterfly.com/action … fa4bd&pg=2

Making another comparison to the current map
of the zoo, this orientation puts you in
front of the snow leopards.
– falls gentle in the december night
The small cat exhibit.
Can not tell what was in the furtherest
right (east) pen of number 5 back in 1982.

Tron, please, never stop giving suggestions.
and truthfully, so many people have contributed time and thoughts to this dig, while I am merely the vessel. well, a participating vessel anyways.
wilhouse

And making another review of this map from 1982,
why would there be a big distinction in the colors of
green used.
Most used is the light, seafoam green – proabably
denoting open spaces.
But there is a deliberate attempt to sperate other things using
a much darker forest green.
Could this explain the image’s use of different colored
light and dark squares?

Just some food for thought:
The angled row of groundstones that start under the second pillar from the left (the edge starts at the end of the first) plus the wall looks alot like the State of Nevada.
The globe pillar’s base even gives it that funky nubb at the bottom and provides the straight right side of the State
And lastly, there is a mountain range there called The Ruby Mountains.
Slightly lower there are a bunch of reservations and places like Reno and Carson City (which I believe has an airport too)
Thoughts please

Still waiting for you to do so… Had a good nap?!

Choice

I guess as long as you are in a “stand-your-ground” state. Who’s gonna stop you as long as you’re packing heat?

I’m nominating this as one of the dumbest posts on this forum. Add some value or take a hike.

I stand corrected with my off the cuff remark. She just grew up communist in Russia before denouncing it.
But what does Ayn Rand have to do with Houston and this puzzle?

MrBackstop

I stand corrected with my off the cuff remark. She just grew up communist in Russia before denouncing it.
But what does Ayn Rand have to do with Houston and this puzzle?

In the past theories were proposed suggesting a line in a cryptic email from Preiss was a reference to Rand’s “Anthem”.

Ayn Rand

On the ground there were long thin tracks of iron, but it was not iron; it felt smooth and
cold as glass
.

Unknown

Unknown:
What brought it to pass? What disaster took their reason away from men?
What whip lashed them to their knees in shame and submission? The worship
of the word “We”….
…But I still wonder how it was possible, in those graceless years of transition,
long ago, that men did not see whither they were going, and went on, in
blindness and cowardice, to their fate. I wonder, for it is hard for me to
conceive how men who knew the word “I,” could give it up and not know what
they had lost…

It began with a quote from
Anthem
…and as Merlot says, this went with speculation about Preiss’ nonsensical “after 22 Years all I can say is l”, and its possible connection with the same novel.
All a bit far-fetched perhaps, but who knows.

Unknown

Unknown:
What you need is a good sensible way to identify a dig spot.

There is. It’s on Pages 220-221 of the book. It worked for the Chicago group, and probably would have worked for Andy and Brian if they had gotten to Cleveland 20 years earlier.

Thanks for that info White Rabbit, I had no idea. Clears it up for me now. Interesting.

Euhirudinea

There is. It’s on Pages 220-221 of the book. It worked for the Chicago group, and probably would have worked for Andy and Brian if they had gotten to Cleveland 20 years earlier.

Unfortunately that is a way to have
someone else
identify a dig spot.

Well, I spent about 3 hours digging in the central area in the zoo Sunday, along with the current zoo director, the zoo curator from 1982 and his wife, and Doc Love.
Unfortunately, the bricks are set in place in 6 inches of concrete.  We’d need a bobcat to get the concrete out (which by the way they have at the zoo).  The zoo director won’t let us dig out the concrete without some positive indication from Preiss that the treasure is in that spot.  I am working that angle.
In the mean time, check out this picture.
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEMmbdmzaNnuA
This is a picture of a lamp that used to be in the zoo. They changed out the globes as they broke because they couldn’t get replacements. These things were all over the children’s zoo. I’m trying to find out if they were all over the zoo.
As an added bonus, it is possible (trying to confirm) that there were two llamas in the zoo 1980s time frame, a papa llama named Pierre and a baby llama named Snowflake.
wilhouse

These are from wilhouse:
http://quest4treasure.co.uk/public_html/www/TheSecret/images/stitched%20cz.jpg
and
http://quest4treasure.co.uk/public_html/www/TheSecret/images/stitchedczwith8.jpg
Mark

Thanks Mark!!
OK Fox, let’s see if I can convince you that Image 8 is the Houston CZ:
DocLove and I spent several hours in the CZ yesterday digging, with no success.  This follows going last weekend and not having any success.
BUT, last weekend Doc noticed something that we did further explore yesterday.  Look at the two pics that Mark posted in the post directly above this one.
The first pic is a stitched together view from the CZ at it’s most southern tip, next to the auditorium, looking north, but panoramic from west (left) to east (right).  Notice on the west (left) the building which was the Party Building (they held parties there).  Notice the globe light. Notice the pole.  They are NOT connected, but when you stand in ONE specific spot it LOOKS like there is a globe on top of the pole.
Thinking about it, the camel is not really on the pole, the rhino is not really on the pole, and apparently the globe is not really on the pole.
The next thing is hard to see, but if you look carefully in the background to the right of the party building behind the rock wall you can barely see the totem type pole that is at the entrance to the North America area.  It is the pole that looks like the pole in image 8 with the camel that I have previously posted (see link below).
Continuing left to right, directly ahead, is nothing now but a tree (NOT the big tree directly in front of the camera but the tree in the bushes).  BUT, it turns out that there WAS a totem type pole there just like the one in Image 8 (the rhino pole) and like the one in the North America area.  We found it in one of the old pictures I had posted (check the link below, image DSC00078. It’s hard to see, but it is sticking up just a little bit behind the small hut to the right of center in the background behind the bridge – it looks like it’s in front of the auditorium.  We checked out the angle, it is NOT the one in the North America area entrance).  So straight ahead would be where the next pole is.  To the right, next to the auditorium you see the area where the elf fountain was (raised planter area with small tree-like plants).  Finally, look at the steps around the auditorium.  They have metal rails on them.  From where you are standing, they look like curving train tracks, especially when you step back a bit.
I took image 8 and cut the pieces from the Image and pasted them into the stitched photo.  You can see this as the second photo Mark posted.
In my humble opinion, this is the spot Preiss stood when he got the idea for Image 8.  The pieces fit.  Note that the camels, rhinos and berms are all north of the CZ.
We dug a 1 1/2 foot trench from the pole to the end of the dirt area (basically looking at the pole towards you).  Unfortunately, with Houston weather, the trench filled with groundwater.
I really believe it’s somewhere close.  Look at this slideshow, Picture DSC00087:
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEMmbdmzaNnzw
This is a picture from the opposite side, looking at the party house (it’s called the graphics building in the shot, which is what it is now).  You can see the little cinder block men and the pole.
It’s there, I am sure of it!!
wilhouse

Can somebody who is knowledgeable in Hermann Park History tell me how tall was the original fountain in the lake,
Not the current one. but the original.
Thanks

there are several things in the tree that I can’t identify…
wilhouse

wilhouse,
in this map:
http://www.hermannpark.org/images/Hermann_Park_Map.pdf
see that brown blob by #9, the zoo entrance
could that be the brown blob in our image, behind and to the right of the rhino?
and then if you draw a line from the brown blob to the jewel in the picture, wouldn’t that take you to the George H. Hermann statue, #27?
and see that water fountain is  straight ahead from the  statue (in the map) and the RR tracks are behind the fountain.
“three
Physical Description
George H. Hermann is a life-size,
three
-part, cast bronze figurative sculpture standing on a trapezoidal concrete pedestal. The inscribed pedestal has polished pink granite faces and rests on top of a circular, polished granite base.
or if it goes:
“three winged and slight”———maybe that water fountain has 3 tiers and is small
and see that water fountain is right there to the right of the statue and the RR tracks (in the map).
i have no idea what that water fountain looks like, but look at this:
http://flickr.com/photos/balzen/3160320/
what we take to be our strongest tower of delight”———–Hermann statue (herman melville reference)
“December night”——–straight ahead from the statue is the fountain (spout) and the RR tracks (whistle) —– (in the map)
ck
i checked, it said the statue was erected there in 1981, lol
wilhouse is there a better map i should be using?
i know the blobs aren’t exactly alike, but he wouldn’t want it to be too easy. (he succeeded, lol)
i hadn’t read where anyone knew what that brown blob could be, have they?
i’m not gonna let it die, wilhouse, lol, it’s gotta be there for you!
the picture is depicting 12 o’clock with the shadows, which goes with “december” or straight ahead

Slappy, I like your line of reasoning.
But, that map is from way past 1982, more like the 90’s, and the zoo entrance and the way the tracks are in it were not the way they were back in 82.
Since I’m color blind, I can’t really tell what blobs you are talking about, but I’m not sure it matters cause that zoo entrance was built later on.
If you go look at some of the links I posted in verse 1 or image 8 you’ll see a whole bunch of old maps and such.  If you can’t find them let me know and I’ll repost the links, cause the photos are still there.
I checked out the statue and it’s all concrete back there, no where to dig or hide anything…
wilhouse

Hopefully this weekend. I need two things to occur:
1. It stops raining
2. My wife lets me out of painting the inside of our house.
I note that
1. it stopped raining today
2. I finished painting this last weekend.
wilhouse

I believe this image falls under the following theme:
July?(can’t see a time)
Ruby
Larkspur? Water Lily? (can’t see a flower)
Arabian Theme
“The Ruby out of Araby:
Scarlet of the desert sky at dawn.”
It’s definitely a ruby in the pic, and definitely an arabian theme.  There is no flower in the pic that I can see.  However, there are towns in California and Colorado named Larkspur.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Rorschach

I’ve got them all. I’ll have to create an album somewhere. It’s a tedious time consuming effort so it’s not going to happen over night.
wilhouse

You guys are local right? Sounds like you should hust meet for coffee and a game of scrabble. Go over those photos old school style.

Any word on those old photos wilhouse? =D

Fox, et al.:
I checked with the zoo director.  No flag was flown on the children’s zoo flagpole in the late 70’s to early 80’s.
It was not used in this time period.
Note that the flagpole is in the Africa contact area.
wilhouse

Fenix, the way you have drawn it is not quite right, try this:
CAMEL
RHINO
X Concession Stand
X Flagpole
X Party Room
BROWNIE

Wilhouse,
Over on the V1 thread (Reply #113, 7/7/04), you described the flagpole as being in Asia.
I’m not sure I understand what’s being depicted in the last couple of posts.
Pine

…but looking some more, it appears over the top of the crenelated stuccoed gate, which is labelled “Africa” in one of the 1960’s newspaper photos…
…’course, the Africa and Asia pens are very close, so I’m not sure what I’m seeing…

Maybe put a little guy with a front end loader in the picture!

So I was on google earth and noticed a red object similar to the gem. Went on street view and it looks like this. Any info on this statue and when it was installed?
http://imgur.com/AwA7FFg

I’ve always thought it was too concidental that the djinn, coming out of a water spout in the picture is wearing an identical hat to the elf which is a fountain and has water coming out of him.
wilhouse

Wilhouse,  I don’t think the totemsor animals are visual clues.  I think they might have clues in them like the rhino horn, but I think those are either references to the zoo or just part of the art.  As for the hat, I’ve always been inclined to think the hat is the theater:

Howdy
So I made a trip to Houston in August and I covered the whole park with my phone camera.
Trying to imagine the park in 82 is probably one of the hardest parts of this treasure.
These are some observations I made but not exactly in the following order.
One of the first things I did when I got there was imagine I was in front of the old train 982.
The train is gone but with this old aerial I was able to put myself there.
From here I decide to go north through the woods. Now the park lost a lot of trees to renovation and disease and recently to drought. But even with that many lost trees the area north of old 982 train is still wooded. In 1982 it must have looked like a true forest. I also think the line
“through the wood no lion fears” means that you go in the direction where there is “no lion(s)”.
As I am walking through the woods I notice the ground is familiar. Now this could just be a coincidence but I thought I should mention this:
As I am flipping through my book I find this
This puppet was a djinn or genie on the ground with a casque. This picture strongly resembles the ground where I am walking on.
The whole area has big beautiful oaks and they are scattered. I try to find four that stand out but I see none.
Next I cross the mini train tracks.
This is the
“small of scale step across” line.
Now the train moved a bit and I didn’t know this until I got back. However, I think that even with the move I would still end up near or right next to the Miller theater.
Now as for the verse
“Perspective must not be lost”
This must mean that the either the train or the tracks must be still within eye sight. The theater is really not far from both.
This is where I started to see things from the book. I think some of these were already pointed out but I present them here together with my findings.
The blocks from the theater
The paving/sand stone
looks old
this of course:
“looking back from treasure ground, there’s the spout a whistle sounds.”
The whistle is the train, which has been running since the 80s and probably before.
The spout is this:
Which I think was replaced a few times but should basically be the same. I think this is what Preiss saw.
Now for the final clues to dig
“In the center of four alike
small, split
three winged and slight”
Here Preiss was describing trees. But not just any tree. he park is filled with oaks and other types of trees but  I could only find these in the direct vicinity of the theater next to the sand stone area with picnic tables.
These trees are smaller than oaks, split in the trunk and are slight or thinner than trees around them. They also have leaves that can be described as “three winged”
I think I have it narrowed down. I will detail later how I plan to proceed but I just wanted to get this theory out here to the soldiers that have been in the trenches for a while.
If anyone is interested in my Houston pics you can find them here:
http://s1070.photobucket.com/albums/u497/rookhunter/
(they’re a bit jumbled with other hunts and pictures I took in NO)

Interesting stuff.
What about the djinn hat, the horizontal totems and the animal heads?
wilhouse

I can see the hat as the theater.  I also see it as the elf in childrens zoo.

Well…. You all have been busy lately!
Dero, thanks for coming along and sharing your insights. What an interesting theory, from someone who is actually quite familiar with this space in 1981/1982. I used to spend lots of time in hermann park in 2008-2010.
I too have concerns about the viability of digging in some places of the park, even in 1981.
At the end of 2015, I visited the place in grant park where the casque there was found. It’s in this funny little nook that is nearly unnoticed, even today. So I can see where you are coming from on this.
Definitely looking forward to hearing more from you.

Having said this..I looked closely at the ball on top of the pillar, and it appears to say the words ‘Burke Baker’ and since the bottom of the pillar is, imo, the image of the Sam Houston monument. It makes sense.

I found a reasonably good looking confirmation clue of something by holding a mirror along the left edge of the image, thus completing the other half of what typifies a clear case of the vanishing point perspective.
Its still somewhat subtle, but much larger than what would be considered a small coincidence. I’m curious to see if anyone can find it before I post the visual comparison to a photograph of the landmark.

I’m guessing it’s one of these two images:

I knew before looking that you would find that penis. Nice work, you deviant.
I was thinking more along these lines, so partial credit goes to four21thrasher.

no dolphins. no water creatures except in the CZ in the aquatunnel.
also I believe that fountain was recently built
wilhouse

I believe the fortress is referring to what is now the ZaZa Hotel.
It was called the WARwick hotel, back in the 1980’s. It is shaped somewhat like a fortress and the war part of the name fits in the motif of that line of the verse. It is also Directly north of the Sam Houston Monument in the center of the circle.
I may do some poking around in Hermann Park this week, I’m off and I live in Houston.

the book came out in 1982 and if there’s no water released there’s no spout.
wilhouse

On page 826 of Moby Dick there is an instance of the word spout with an exclaimation point.
I think the simplest idea is to perceive some feature that has a whales spout description.  Any fountain shooting a vertical torrent or something shaped like a bushel of wheat (as Melville describes).  Even a tree has that bristly top shape like water when it turns downward after reaching its height.

the aqua tunnel had an aerator in it that makes the water return look like a spout. I posted some pics a while ago.
wilhouse

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?oo86s8w26cs9jf8
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?4c1qqas47taknu1
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?gedcibe8beb6zuc
Rockhunter… I saw your spout and thought, “How unique!” Then yesterday, it made the above jump out to me (it is right next to my parking spot at work); so, I took some pics and did some figurative digging. I’d never noticed it before.
According to the landlord, the building and that “spout” have been here since 1983. It made me think that the “spout” you referenced is common, and probably looked the same as any replacement (is 1997 the date of that spicket?) when the book was published.

Question . Those are spigots or valves,
are valves considered spouts if there is no place for the water to come out?

Has anyone scouted the location in sam houston herman park? I live in downtown houston and im free during the day when few people are around. I dont mind looking around and staying in contact with someone to help find the treasure.

I figure instead of digging a hole in the areas, we could use a 4-5ft sewing kinda needle to poke around and see if we hit anything in the areas mentioned.

erexere

What do you think, does a lion look like an acorn?

Easy enough to check pull up Google image search and put in the search term “Lion Acorn”
If many people think Lion goes with /looks like Acorn, there will be results showing, Acorn lions or Lion shaped Acorns or Acorn with lion mane.
if you just get links for lions and links for acorns separately then know people don’t associate the two.
For instance try it with Acorn Button, and you will see lots of results of Acorns shaped like buttons, or buttons shaped like acorns or acorns used as buttons.
However Lions and Acorns don’t seem to mix.

Hmm…from what I read about acorns there’s an interesting history about “man eating acorns”.  It was even used as a substitute for coffee during times of rationing.  Native Americans gathered them and stored them for food.

Does anyone see “Brownie” the elf in darker spot of trees in image? B-C/5-6 In Grid, immediately right of 95. I’m starting all over and after looking again I can see possibly eyes, nose, arms, hands(leafs), legs and feet(leafs). Maybe I’m seeing things. Anyone else?

JMuehlberg

Does anyone see “Brownie” the elf in darker spot of trees in image? B-C/5-6 In Grid, immediately right of 95. I’m starting all over and after looking again I can see possibly eyes, nose, arms, hands(leafs), legs and feet(leafs). Maybe I’m seeing things. Anyone else?

I see Wally Gator the caiman, hanging upside down, with arms spread wide, grinning and waiting to do a death roll after he chomps down on some unsuspecting searcher.
But, that’s just my opinion.
Chomp, chomp.

Fox, the party house is the only spot in the CZ where the smooth columns are.  The only other potential for those columns are the light posts, but the options for light posts in or by dirt are minimal (read that as one).
I didn’t count how many poles there are around the party bldg, I should be able to figure it out with photos.
I took so many shots of the party room because that is where I plan to doze first and I needed some shots in order to make a plan on where to start.
There are trees in the CZ that match the leaves in the image. I think I have posted them previously.
wilhouse

Thanks for the pix Wilhouse.  One thing I noticed was that, unlike many of our other theories, they sure arent lacking in potential hiding places….lots of green and foliage.
speaking of foilage, another thing that caught my eye was the numerous small trees about the area….they sure reminded me of the tree in this P.  & in the 1st ( I believe) photo inside of the tunnel, there is a leaf that looks like it could have fallen from our P’s tree.
Lastly…why the concentration of pix of the area surrounding the party house?  Is the the most logical dig site?  Now….just how many pillars are around that party house?  Seven?

I think he is saying the building with the sphere on it in dallas matches the pillar with the sphere in the picture—
Matt

Euhirudinea

Don’t blame 421 for holding you to the high standard you yourself set in you initial post. With all due respect, you have offered a lot of opinions (Preiss could not have buried the casque in the CZ, the hat on brownie does not look like the hat on the djinn, the NA column in the Image is a city confirmer as opposed to a location confirmer, aqua tunnel vs fountains, etc.) but very little proof. Is that forthcoming?

Didn’t set a high bar at all. I said that I don’t think that the common ideas about where the casque IS are correct…and I have proof of that. I guess some of the proof is that, in fact, the casque is still missing.
And yes, I’ve still got to type the rest of my hypothesis.
But, it’s true: I’m almost positive it’s not in the zoo…for all of the reasons I’ve mentioned before. I’ll say again, EVERYONE here is offering opinions. You say I’ve offered a lot: yes, I have. Of course I haven’t offered ‘proof’, because that would make the opinions ‘fact’. And until someone is holding a casque in their hands, that’s all any of us have. Opinions.
I’d like to think I’ve been very respectful of that…and have repeatedly said that I could be very wrong. But that’s not going to make me timid about my opinions…or why I think a certain line of reasoning is not possible.
(and I never said the column was a ‘city confirmer’)…

OK…
So where I last left off, we were standing on, what in 1981, would’ve been a nondescript little block of land located in the center of ‘4 things alike’: the Mecom Colonnade Fountain (smaller and ‘split’ apart on it’s own) and the big Mecom Fountain (a large fountain ‘winged’ by it’s 2 smaller in scale’ and ‘slight’ counterparts). Again, where we are standing can be seen on this old map that dates from the period:
We are now standing in the bottom left corner area of this map, on that little triangular block in the center of numbers 1 and 2 (the fountains). Again, the block is bounded on 2 sides by streets called ‘Hermann’.
Again, in front of us, we are looking at the Mecom Colonnade fountain. A little info about the man after whom the fountains around us are named. John Mecom was an oil magnate. He redeveloped oilfields all over the deserts of the middle east, from Egypt to Saudi Arabia. The desert landscape of image #8 is noteworthy, considering these facts.
It was after this man that the Mecom Colonnade Fountain before us was named. I believe this fountain is the plume of water pictured in the foreground of image #8. Here’s why: look at the image:
Now, see the little symbol beside the plume of water which many have assumed represents a railroad track? I think it actually represents the stone pillars around the Mecom Colonnade Fountain. Look again:
See how the pillars encircle the fountain, all connected by a small bridge of sorts? I think the symbol on image #8 can represent this. See how the vertical line, broken apart at intervals by smaller lines (columns) CURVES around the plume of water? I’ve often thought that the ‘shadow’ of the plume of water could, in fact, represent oil.
I think at this point, we turn our full attention to image #8 and use it to confirm if we are indeed in the right area.
From this point, you can visually line things up in the real world with images in the painting. I think, using the plume of water (Mecom Colonnade) as a marker, you can line it up with the Miller Outdoor Theater (djinn) and the hill. You can pretty much do this today (2016), but with not as much ease as you could in 1981 (more on that in a second).
So now, you look at that big ball on the pillar in the foreground (‘perspective must not be lost’). What could that represent? Well, you have to go back to 1981 and try and visualize what it would’ve looked like from where you are standing. You’ll have to use your imagination though, because 2 big things block your view in 2016: the huge Imax Theater and the Cockrell Butterfly Exhibit. These big monstrosities were built in 1989 and 1994, respectively. Before they existed, the land on which they now stand was a somewhat less-traveled wooded and grassy area. It was parkland, true enough, but a bit more off the beaten path from the far more visible and frequented areas of the park (right across the street). So, go back in time…to 1981. Standing in the middle of those aforementioned fountains, you could visually line up the Mecom Rockwell Colonnade fountain with the Miller Outdoor Theater hill.
You would’ve also seen, without fail, a huge round, dome-shaped structure in the foreground on your left: the Burke Baker Planetarium. It would’ve been in the exact position of the pillar holding the ‘moon’ looking ball. I think BP gave further confirmation of the astronomical connection when he placed a star directly above that ball/moon column.
I think the other pillars with the animals served to confirm that we were in the general area of the zoo. Nothing more. I know that many think that they mean so much more. I can understand why, I just don’t agree.
So, looking back at image #8, the gem is lying just adjacent to the ‘Planetarium’. I think this is the area where the stone could’ve been buried. Again, we can’t dig in that area…because the Imax and the Cockrell Butterfly House is built over all of this land. For those who are from Houston, try to remember the park and that area beside the museum, before the IMAX and the BC were built. Remember? It was slightly wooded and tucked off to the side. It was off the beaten track. It was definitely INSIDE of the park, and would’ve provided enough isolation for you to dig at your leisure. Across the way, you could’ve seen the miniature train go by on it’s outermost circuit and heard it’s whistle as it crossed the sidewalks just south of the obelisk and reflecting pools.
I think you would’ve been standing in the area BP did when he found a spot to dig. I think there might have been an additional detail or two in the direct vicinity of the actual dig spot. None of this still exists. I think it’s very likely that the search is now impossible.
Big buildings now sit on top of the burial ground…which really isn’t to say that the casque is still ‘buried’. Laying the foundation of those buildings (especially the IMAX, whose interior auditorium is below ground level) would’ve dug the casque up and probably destroyed it. And that’s that.
For more reference, look at this old map again:
The Planetarium and Museum are marked by #4. Note, just beneath the Planetarium on the same plot of land, a nice amount of open space. This was all wooded parkland.
This is what I think…and the idea that I feel is most likely. I could be (and I hope I am) wrong. For a few years, I put this puzzle aside, accepting the idea that it’s lost underneath the IMAX and the butterflies.
But lately, I’ve seen some other points of view…some of them mentioned by people on this forum. For instance, the ideas regarding the old Houston Garden Center are very interesting. There were days when that place was all but deserted…and I mean in the middle of the day, too. It would’ve been an amazing place to hide something.
So, I’m revisiting things. I understand that there are certain details that I perhaps haven’t given enough attention to.
That said, I do feel that the popular ideas that this thing is buried in a zoo or in a highly-frequented area of the park ‘proper’ are incorrect. I feel that there are enough factual points to disqualify these locations, and I’ve mentioned them already several times before.
While the big parts of me feels that the casque is gone, gone, gone…I do have another line of reasoning.
I’ll type that out in a bit.
-dero

This is fun reading, dero – keep it up.

Dero, please do not be offended. Since you are so familiar with this area and how it looked when the treasure was hidden, that automatically makes you very valuable to this board. I and others are listening mostly with “hushed silence” while you “speak,” since there aren’t many people like you who have that type of experience, and we value your opinion and want to hear your thoughts. Please finish them, if you have not yet done so. I assume you would like to hear what we think about your theories, and so you will hear some discussion which may point out some holes in your theory. Please do not be offended by that – we are just trying to help, and are all “on the same team” trying to figure out the solution. Some people are not as tactful as others in pointing these things out, but please do not take that personally. We like your posts!
I am interested in whether you can explain some of the other things in Image 8 and the related verse. There is the funny looking leaf to the right of the rhino’s head, which looks like a sideways ghost to me, and is probably something you can see in the vicinity of the treasure. On the rhino pole, there are 2 leaves which appear to be on the tree, but also painted onto the pole. There also appears to be an overhead map in the upper right corner of the Image, and to the left of that, either a Z or a 2 in “negative space.” There is another funny looking leaf closer to the globe pole (which you say is the planetarium), which looks a lot like the other funny looking leaf. There appears to be one or two stripes under the camel. Did you see the post about the indentation at the bottom of the globe pole matching an actual indentation on an actual pole? I would think that that is an image confirmer if true.
As for your theories, I am waiting until you are done posting them before I say anything.
But again, please do not be offended by some of the people on here – we are just trying to figure it out together. Thanks.

Totally agree with Sir Egg. I wasn’t meaning to offend and actually like your theories

“While the big parts of me feels that the casque is gone, gone, gone…I do have another line of reasoning.”
This too is sounding more and more like our good friend X. You have stated how sure you are of your solution down to saying you know the exact dig spot which is now unfortunately gone……..but then you turn around and say you have another line of reasoning?

fox

“While the big parts of me feels that the casque is gone, gone, gone…I do have another line of reasoning.”
This too is sounding more and more like our good friend X. You have stated how sure you are of your solution down to saying you know the exact dig spot which is now unfortunately gone……..but then you turn around and say you have another line of reasoning?

Well, you quoted what I said in your post but then misquoted it in your response.
‘WHILE THE BIG PARTS OF ME FEEL the casque is gone, gone, gone…’ implies that there is still another part of me (albeit smaller) that isn’t absolutely 100% about my theory. In other words – my idea, as close as I think it is to truth, might be VERY wrong…no matter how much I believe in it.
Listen guys, I don’t want to fight.
I like my theory. I’ve tested it. I’m 80% sure of it…which is pretty sure…but I’m still open to another line of reasoning because I’m a human being and as long as I don’t have a casque in my hands, I might be wrong. I’ve been wrong before.
At the same time, regarding other theories I’ve heard which have been somewhat generally accepted, I feel fairly certain that they are not likely, because of facts about the places cited that disqualifies them. So in some cases, I’m saying, ‘I may not be able to supply enough evidence to prove where the casque IS, but I think I have enough supplemental evidence to say where the casque ISN’T’.
I’ve only casually browsed these forums over the last 3 or 4 years, and have seen some slight disagreements here and there…but there must’ve been some pretty brutal wars on this forum in the past.
Guys, I’m in this for the fun of it, that’s all. I shoot straight on what I don’t think is correct, but I will never make it personal, won’t call names, or try to insult your intelligence. If you want a flame war or any other static, I’ll help you out right now and declare you the winner. I won’t fight back. Don’t mistake my criticism of an idea as an attack on your intellectual prowess or character or whatever. In puzzle mode, it’s all just A+B=C to me…nothing personal at all.
And who is ‘X’?
– dero

Eg, those two funny-lookin’ leaves are almost certainly larkspurs, the birth flower for July.

Dero72

I have no doubt at all about what this is, and it’s very important…as it gives us our very first clue to exactly where we should be physically standing to begin this quest.

There’s a tendency to interpret these verses in terms of a logical trail from one thing to another, but that’s just not how they work.
Where M and B are set in stone
And to Congress, R is known
L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder
To find this casque you don’t start at Symphony Hall, then proceed to to Roosevelt University, then double back down the road to Grant Park. BP is simply namechecking various things in the vicinity in no particular order. In Hermann Park likewise this may very well be what he’s doing. The problem is that in Chicago, we can still see the landmark related to the casque:
L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder
But in Milwaukee and Houston, we can’t, since the “tall proud fifth” and the “four alike” are almost certainly gone.
It’s still interesting to try and unpick the references though. Perhaps the key part of the verse is:
Small of scale
Step across
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
…since these lines seem to be directions to a certain place, rather than a list of local things. I still feel the miniature railway is the most likely candidate for “Small of scale / Step across”, though the “Perspective” remains a mystery, so perhaps not.

forest_blight

Eg, those two funny-lookin’ leaves are almost certainly larkspurs, the birth flower for July.

Almost
?

There was a larkspur tree in the CZ. There’s a Larkspur st. in Houston
wilhouse

lol
if i was in AZ id come help.  🙂

Fox, you’ve laid out the whole state of Arizona as possible treasure ground.
Happy digging…
wilhouse

hehehehe,  thanks for the encouragement wilhouse.
as stated above, just tossing out other ideas until we are
%100 sure of another site with P/V and have the casque in our hands.
well, I’m off to the southeastern corner of AZ to begin my tedious & systematic removal of 3 1/2 feet of dirt off of the entire state of AZ until I find the casque.  😛

Sorry folks, but here is yet another idea tossed out for this P.  Could this P possibly be referring to Arizona?  Here is why I ask:
1) a stretch possibility for the curved “track marks?” along with the star in the sky…..
…
http://www.2bbsouthwest.org/arizonaflag.gif
2)  the pillars…ball, camel & rhino…..  If you look at a map of Arizona…the camel fits camelback mountain (Phoenix)  the ball could be Globe, AZ and if you line these 2 cities up…the rhino lands appx where Rye, AZ is located.
OK…silly ideas…but I thought I would share them nonetheless.

I posted photos today on the Houston Group Facebook thread. I decided to make a FB thread yesterday to chronicle my efforts. Everyone is welcome to read and view my stuff. If you would like…i can post all the same photos and info here on the q4t thread. I want to SHARE what im doing. I have a deep respect for everyone in the local Houston area. I have been working and searching the last 5 years in hermann park. Ive decided this year to do several digs because i feel confident in two of them. One out near miller theater…one already in the houston zoo. If you want to call me on my phone…just message me and i will give you my phone number. I am more that happy to tell you all the information i have been developing on the many trips to hermann park.
I may be a new member here…but i am 43 years old. I have visited Hermann Park many times as a kid. I’m just an average person doing what i can to search for a solution, developing my theory and then going out to dig. The only way to find out if im right or wrong is to dig (but getting approval from the parks a recreation department of houston first).
Thanks,
David in Houston

HoustonTxDave

I figured it would be a good place for the Houston treasure hunters to chat, post images and get to know
others in the area. I wanted to have a place to post my pictures, talk about my theories, and let others follow what I have been doing lately.

The only reason I could see that would be different than here, is that since you are the admin of your new FB page you are in control of the conversation…
why not just use quest4treasure?

maltedfalcon

The only reason I could see that would be different than here, is that since you are the admin of your new FB page you are in control of the conversation…
why not just use quest4treasure?

Well, there are other reasons I can think of, some of which are really good reasons. Here’s the thing though…
It’s infuriating when to me when a noob comes in to the forum, reads all the information that has been tried and toiled and researched for literally decades, and then runs of to start a forum where none of the information is shared back with Q4T. See, they come in, gleen all the information needed to bring them up to speed, and then dash to continue the search in secret.
Now if you, Malted, wanted to go start (or be part of) a FB page that didn’t share back, I wouldn’t care. You have contributed so much, much more than you could ever take. Even if none of it ever turns out to be fruitful to a solve, your presence and critique over the years is of great value.

The FB page doesnt bother me. We might wait and see if the clean slate approach moves things forward or not.
I like Dave’s effort. That doesnt mean I think hes going about the puzzle the right way, but I can tell he has the determination and the benifit of being a local presence to figure out something on his own and be a great support to anyone who cant be there in person or a great person to team up with if they should also be in the Houston area.

As I recall, there are letters or numbers hidden in the branches and leaves in this picture.  I don’t have my book right now, but can anyone make out what the letters and numbers are?

are you suggesting it’s near the garden center?
wilhouse

i like the area of the mecom fountain and colonnade.  ( i hope it’s still there, the one with the columns)if you change the perspective and put all the columns standing up like where you would have to be to see the camels in the zoo, or the train tracks
stand where  the columns  would be if you were standing there
the smaller ones by the golf course, it seems to me, well, the smallest one is by that blob that i don’t know what it is supposed to be
i like that shape in the parking lot whiterabbit, you can even use the block the genie is on for the big square

The Ruby out of Araby
Scarlet of desert sky at dawn
…yeah, I quite like it as the “center of four alike”, and it seems that round the back of it you could see most of the things in the pic. The columns and water statue at the back of the center, the sandy “dunes” of the golf course, and the star and fishbone shapes if they were there at the time. I guess my favourite spot would be somewhere by the fence near this fishbone shape, beside the golf course for Araby-ness. I see the square the genie is standing on as the fishbone square. Depends how recent these things are though.

Could the higher of the two waterspout skulls resemble a harlequin (?) face, half black and half white?

That’s the only face that doesnt resemble a “skull” but I included it anyway because it’s a face….I see what you mean by the half black half white face though.

Wilhouse,
Any luck in getting BP to get the information from the safe deposit box?

None so far. As of today that is.
wilhouse

Hi Dave. I have my doubts that its location is easy or digable. Good luck in your search.

Hi Folks,
My name is Dave…i will be going out to Hermann Park on saturday August 8th 2015. If you would like to join me on the search…please let me know.

keep in mind that the photo posted above is how the area looks today. it did not look that way 5 years ago, besides in 1982.
look at the links for the old photo’s i’ve got posted on shutterfly to see what things looked like 25 years ago.
wilhouse

I wanted to know if anyone else can see a profile of an animal face, possibly a zebra or giraffe in the negative space in the trees?  In the picture that Thanar recently posted it is on the right side of P8 which is next to an overhead view of the park.  If you look at the upper left side of the overhead view there are two roads that start to converge towards the edge of the picture.  Where those roads run off the picture is almost exactly at the snout of the animal I see in the trees.  The features of the animal are in a lighter shade of grey than the rest of the trees.  Another way of seeing it is if you look at the tip of the Rhino’s horn there is a light colored leaf hanging down.  The light colored leaves above that form stripes on the neck of the animal.  Can anyone else see this or is it just me?
Also, I wonder if anyone mentioned that the pillar with the camel is the only of the three that does not have a shadow or the blue aura highlighting the top.  Since the rhino was found easily I wonder is this more symbolic of something opposed to being an exact marker.

sam i see it, maybe refers to the zoo at the park

there are / were only three totems and unfortunately, they were in a straight line…
wilhouse

so this place with the totem poles is where the verse leads us?  hmmmm….  maybe the four alike things aren’t gone.  since the image (as far as we know) shows something that is visible from the casque sight.  the totems.  is there even dirt in that area?  i believe that the whistle is the train, it makes sense.  i don’t know.
there’s got to be something there. these things that are four alike could be huge!  or just tiny.
-regulus

I was just reading about the RMS Titanic which used two story tall reciprocating steam pistons.  It had two 4-piston engines behind it’s three wing-propeller system (a smaller center propeller and two larger on the port and starboard sides).  Perhaps it’s not likely we should view the 23 foot diameter propellers as what Preiss had in mind with “three winged, slight,” which isn’t my intention here.  What I’m looking at is the similarity in the basic piston attached to a wheel shape which is typical in the design of a steam locomotive.  Here’s my crude drawing of the system in a vertical orientation.
Preiss gave Houston’s map of the Hermann Park area some kind of consideration when he submitted his instructions and photo to Palencar.  If he thought about Melville and Rand, might he have also thought about whales, ships, trains, fountains, and other things of epic proportion.  I don’t see any real parallel between the 982 and the Titanic, other than both using steam.  All I’m trying to justify is the sense that he might have intended a start path (first three lines of verse1) from a point north of Sam Houston, which then continues south to the 982 and then turns back north again to a spot near the Miller Outdoor Theater, i.e. a reciprocating path.

except for the ripping up the book part, I’ve done the rest several times!!!
wilhouse

Suggestion–you may want to get the GPS coordinates for some of the more important CZ locations before they are gone.

You probably already tried this before.  However, if you haven’t, just sit down in the zoo with the verse, and think about each line.  Every line has a meaning.

Hi Wilhouse I expect you have already checked the newspapers for the time the zoo first opened and when the book was first published for photos and things like that. What exactly did Byron say to you. And if all else fails take a metal detector with you. Louise

that’s a good suggestion and we will do that
wilhouse

& if that doesnt work…… tear up your book into tiny pieces while screaming “I’m mad as h*!! and I dont care who knows it” and go willy nilly with your trusty ground penetrating spike.  Please be careful of all water mains and electrical conduits.

Louise, there’s just too much to repeat. You’ll need to go spend some time on the Verse 1 / Image 8 threads. I have posted everything Preiss said to me there.
Let me just say, even if I knew with 100% fact that it was there, it still might not be possible to find…but I hold out hope!
wilhouse
ps., I will bring my gps.

Can you share the photograph sources? That would help the information pool as any other specific details or reports of the changes to the landscape or position of the sculpture or MOT.
It’s a nice location to fit the idea I’ve presented, but I’ve not seen any indication that anyone is that interested in exploring it further. Lots of other options out there, trees, fountains, ex-zoo poles, etc.

erexere

Its hard to trust photographs because of distortion factors. That pedestal being moved introduces one variable and then the angle or new position of the earthwork also changes things when using two points to extrapolate a spot.

A photographic expert can identify those factors immediately. For example, if everyone looks the same height, it was most likely taken with a telephoto lens. I don’t see any of those factors in the photos of where it used to be, and as for the current location, I’ve been there. It’s at the top of the hill, with the walkway passing three steps away.

(Wilhouse, I just heard back from another Houston contact who’s offered to check this site – see PM.)

I just discovered Google Earth historical imagery. (There’s a clock in V6 that lets you wind back through various historical points. Might be worth bearing in mind for other locations.)
We all knew it, but it’s still a sobering exercise to see how Hermann Park changes. For instance, here’s three shots of the Garden Center from 1978, 1989 and the present. The “genie square” was there by 1989, and the same basic shape seems to have been there back in 1978, though the surround is darker; possibly grassy. Curious.
(I should add that, fond as I am of the genie square, my favourite image match from the same location is the veiled white figure with watery torso standing in front of a line of four matching pillars beside the sandy bunkers of the golf course. If you look at the picture, how many “four alike” do you see? But nobody seems to recognise this similarity because other elements are borrowed from somewhere else.)
It’s unlikely a metal detector will find this thing, but I tried contacting some detectorists on the basis that they enjoy digging stuff up, and they’ve indicated that they’d be interested in organising a casque-hunting foray with wilhouse. So maybe we’ll see some more ground broken in Hermann Park yet. (Though probably not as much as last time.)

As for your BSG connection……
“New York : Byron Preiss Multimedia Books, c1997.”
ummmmmm  1997?

Yeah, that’s why I said he eventually went towards BSG.  Gotta wonder if he didn’t have some kind of interest behind publishing that memorabilia.

WR, give me a more specific idea of where you want me to investigate and I will be happy to do so.
I will tell you I have already poked around the CZ with ground penetrating radar, and that area is so full of old pipes and such that you can’t tell what’s down there.
I seriously doubt a metal detector even set on sensitive would be able to find the key in the case several feet down.
you can contact me by email if you want.
wilhouse

wilhouse

WR, give me a more specific idea of where you want me to investigate and I will be happy to do so.

WhiteRabbit

Just here. [11th or last fencepost]

wilhouse

Yeah, it’s worth a look. The good DrLoveDude now keeps a shovel in his trunk in case of emergencies!!

Thanks wilhouse. I fully appreciate that you have your own ideas about this puzzle and I don’t expect people to follow up every crazy idea about their home town that gets posted on this forum, though it doesn’t stop me trying.
For the record, the exact dig spot I’m interested in, and the reasoning, is set out in this PDF file – link below. I’m not saying it’s complete or watertight by any means, I’d just like to get it checked. Let me know if you have trouble opening it. I posted all this a year ago, and you said then that it was worth checking out, so I recently reopened the discussion to see if you had (nag, nag).  😉
Houston theory (PDF) – click on this link to view
When I recently reminded you about this a year later, you said it was after ’82, and I said, no it isn’t. After that the old arguments restarted, together with a bunch of crazy new stuff. Ah, it’s all good fun. But I still haven’t had my dig location looked at.

since I am hooked on 8, I’ll post what I see here in Dan’s high res scan.
from the left side, the 8 in the tree may be a G or a Y. It does not have a closed top. It might be an 8.
There’s a clear 95, perhaps 951 or 957. Maybe even a 5 as a fourth number.  A stretch would be an 8 as a fifth number.
A z or n or n the tree at the top, with a 30 below it.
Possibly a big 7 on the right side as part of the tree.  Below it a 9 with perhaps a 6 or an E.
I can’t find anything in the stones, hills or pillars.

Guardian
it is my understanding that Herman park has stated that anything found in the park is the property of Herman park conservatory
Did you request to keep anything you find?

More thoughts on this Image and why I like the Colonnade.
Through the wood
No lion fears
The word wood instead of woods always caught my attention and then erecexere confirmed my thought about Atropos Key. That statue was donated by Patricia Woodward. And just for fun instead of thinking of a real lion or the lion water fountains, Charles Hermann, when he died, had a horse named Leo. So his horse certainly wouldn’t have been fearful of an artistic statue.
In the sky the water veers
After you’ve gone through the wood and over the camel hump (Miller Hill) the Mecom Fountain comes into view.
And here is what I call the KEY that gets me to the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade:
Small of scale
Step across
This is referring to the Museum of Natural Science. You couldn’t find a smaller scale of History than a museum. The millions of years that are documented in that building are massive and cover the world in comparison to that small building. Step across to the Colonnade.
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
You should still be able to keep your eyes on the Reflection Pool (perspective) while also being able to see the Pioneer Obelisk in the middle of the four fountains surrounding it.
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
This is the piece of land the Colonnade is on. It is small, split into various shapes by the side walks and has 3 triangular landscape beds (wings).
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
This is in reference to the star above the globe in Image 8. I see the top opening of the Colonnade as the globe on the front column. The star is also a Cross. And if you look into the background, between the buildings on the other side of the Colonnade you can see the Tower of St. Paul’s which has a Cross on top.
Falls gently
In December night
Knowing that the Colonnade is constructed from the original columns of Miller Outdoor Theatre leads me to the conclusion that this refers to the closing of the season at the theatre. The “curtain falls” on the season. I know that currently the season runs from March-October but I believe at one time in the original theater the curtain fell in December.
Looking back from treasure
ground
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds
I believe the treasure ground could be inside the landscape wing closest to the damaged or roughed up column in the Colonnade next to it, or perhaps on the outside of that part of the sidewalk area next to the what’re the Colonnade base and circular pavers create a triangular shape in the sidewalk. I wish I had a more exact target but without being there I need help figuring this part out.
As for There’s a spout! A whistle sounds….I understand that miniature train whistle can be heard from all over the park. But notice the exclamation point after “spout!” This is in reference to the Sam Houston statue where Sam is pointing toward something and Spouting out an order Spouting out information to his troops. This would work with the phrase “Looking back from treasure ground, There’s the spout!”
That’s why I’m in the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade for my solve.

A-Dub

I know I am swimming upstream and that many do not even consider alternative theories for Houston, but I believe that a reference to V5 may be present in illustration 8. At P2 (bottom left corner), there is a paving stone that is broken in two. That broken stone sits within two rows of 11 paving stones. One broken stone in 2 pieces, 22 total stones in those rows. They are the only rows in the illustration that can definitively be counted due to lack of obstruction. Two Twenty Two?
That observation might confirm a suspicion of mine (based on other factors) that I8 might actually be paired to V5. This theory takes into account the multiple images present in the illustration that were previously considered Red Herrings and puts them center stage. Is the 222 straw just too long of one to be grasping at?

My theory has the broken stone as “Small, split” and indicates turning as soon as you teach the sidewalk at the Museum of Natural Science.

Doghousereiley

Guardian
it is my understanding that Herman park has stated that anything found in the park is the property of Herman park conservatory
Did you request to keep anything you find?

This info came from a worker who said the Conservancy *and* the state gain ownership. You can’t have both, which is why I don’t trust what he said.

Guardian

This info came from a worker who said the Conservancy *and* the state gain ownership. You can’t have both, which is why I don’t trust what he said.

Did this same worker say, “Give me anything you dig up and I will personally deliver it.”?

JoshCornell1

digging this up tomorrow! come hang guardian!

I have a request in with the Conservancy. I don’t suggest digging there without a permit because the cops are *very* unfriendly to anyone caught with a shovel, and where I mentioned is at the intersection of two busy roads. The actual site is even more problematic after the redesign because it’s covered in concrete.

erexere

Found these old pics.

Where was that Gorilla statue located?  Im thinking of a stretchy word play…Apollo = Ape – hollow.

Fox, those columns are simply that, a rest area. I’ve been there, it’s all concrete, no where to dig.
wilhouse

Wordplay from images is a slippery slope.

I welcome any idea that helps find a casque.  Even outlandish and out of the box ideas sometimes spark thoughts that leads to truths.
wilhouse

Wilhouse, in erexere’s pic of the aerial shot, what is that round pillared collesium looking thing in the triangular park?  Not the gazebo looking thing but the larger roofless structure.  Definitely pillars there.

That’s been there since the 60s.  There’s a (spouting, maybe?) fountain in the middle of it, which does make it interesting.

gManTexas

The lion drinking fountains were actually very popular in parks throughout the US.

There was also one at the Oakland zoo, I remember it when I was a kid.

Thank you Falcon
I have seen posts say this was near the Miller Outdoor Theater
I assume it was across the lake by entrance of zoo

What’s going on here? Why is the mouth of Mr. Hump the camel directly on vertical with the jewel?

Doghousereiley

Thank you Falcon
I have seen posts say this was near the Miller Outdoor Theater
I assume it was across the lake by entrance of zoo

I honestly know nothing about houston other than I am pretty sure wilhouse solved it.
I think (but don’t know this was the Z in Zoo so there would have been two other coloumns but I do not know what was on them
when they were installed or removed.

someone asked to see the rhino column photo
Wilhouse sent me this.

Those are Masonic Tracing Boards.. There are several variations, but some seem to have similar shapes, objects and resemblances to the Images in The Secret. I was initially hesitant to make any connection to the Freemasons (or maybe I did and don’t remember) only because I don’t know enough about it to speak intelligently about them to connect the dots. Maybe there are Masons on here who can help explain any of these connections.. or explain them away.
Thanks

UnprovenFact

Those are Masonic Tracing Boards.. There are several variations, but some seem to have similar shapes, objects and resemblances to the Images in The Secret. I was initially hesitant to make any connection to the Freemasons (or maybe I did and don’t remember) only because I don’t know enough about it to speak intelligently about them to connect the dots. Maybe there are Masons on here who can help explain any of these connections.. or explain them away.
Thanks

I believe the First Order Tracing (also Tresel) Board is 100% the inspiration for Image 8.
The first Masonic Lodge in Texas was the Holland Lodge AF&AM, which has been located at 4911 Montrose Blvd. since 1954. This is directly north of Hermann Park.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Lodge
If we look at some of the famous members, Sam Houston, James Fannin, William Marsh Rice, Ben Taub, and Ross Sterling were among members of that lodge.
William Rice founded Rice University which is across the street from Hermann Park. Ben Taub was a prominent Jewish businessman in Houston, and Ross Sterling founded Humble Oil, which George Hermann had ties to from his land investment. I have not been able to find out if Hermann was a Mason or not.
All of these people were heavily invested in the area now known as the museum district surrounding the Park. As we know, Hermann Hospital was built across the street as well.
For a while, there was a Jewish Community Center at 2020 Hermann Drive, which is now the Judson Robinson Community Center.
Back to the Masonic connection. When we look at the Tracing Board, and other Masonic symbols, we can see how some of these elements were built into Image 8 for Houston. Now we have to see if it was just inspiration or there are additional clues we can extract from the connection.

So I was watching the curse of Oak Island (S6-E7) and subject of freemasons and Hiram Abiff came up. Interesting stuff.
http://www.potunklodge.org/secret-hiram-abiff/
Masonic star map:
http://thehiddenrecords.com/forbidden_starmap

So in my rant, the water spout or dust devil (doesn’t really matter) is represented by the statue of “spirit of confederacy”.
Related to the confederacy in the area is the Sam’s monument. This would satisfy the connection. Wouldn’t it?

Has anyone considered that “There’s the spout!” means There’s the spot with his way of putting southern accent on spot?
Exclamation point may imply pun.

Choice

Has anyone considered that “There’s the spout!” means There’s the spot with his way of putting southern accent on spot?
Exclamation point may imply pun.

Nope.
Because he didn’t change “There’s” to “Thar’s”….and, there’s no “Yeeee-haaaw” in any of the lines of the verse. No mention of rodeo clowns, either.

The “Jinn” is wearing a cover over his eyes, mouth and nose. That tells me he’s trying to keep dust away; similar to desert travelers.
So water-spout may refer to sand-spout or dust devil?

Mister EZ

Nope.
Because he didn’t change “There’s” to “Thar’s”….and, there’s no “Yeeee-haaaw” in any of the lines of the verse. No mention of rodeo clowns, either.

Very subtle EZ!

Desert nomads use sand like water to cleanse themselves and pots.

Goldengate

Yeah, sure, that’s where he was going with the verse and image.
I’m not trying to be negative, and I am all for out-of-the-box thinking but c’mon…

The whole theme of the image is desertscape. Water spouts are hard to comeby.

Sorry it’s been so long since I’ve been on here. Lost dad to cancer in Nov, so it’s been a busy christmas/new year etc…
In the time that I’ve had to “just ponder” I’ve been looking at the image. I see an outline of the state of texas in the image, I can draw it out, but I’m not so handy with photoshop so I’ll give that a try. Not that the location, at this point in the search, is really all that in question (generally referring to it being in Houston, Tx).
Also, I was in Chicago at the Art Institute right before Christmas (family lives in IL, I live in TX) anyhow, I walked south of the AI and looked around Grant Park near Jackson Street. The location where the Chicago cask was found would be very very easy to dig in at night, along the fenceline before the dropoff to the train tracks.
I believe that Wilhouse’s original idea of the cask being buried in the Children’s Zoo portion of Hermann park is exactly correct. Especially given the seclusion that would be required to dig a roughly 1ft by 1ft by 3ft deep hole in the ground. Just thinking about the logistics of performing that. You’d have to carry the cask in the plastic container, and a shovel. Those aren’t two items you can just put in your pocket and walk around with at night, let alone broad daylight without raising suspicions of onlookers. Doing this out in the open in Hermann Park, I think, would have been much more difficult.
I think wilhouse had right, and i think time washed it away, but I could be wrong, and I’ll still lend any help to the search that I can.

I’ve looked but didn’t find this.  Have you noticed these?

boogie – I think we’ve all noticed the marks, but haven’t been able to interpret them. I don’t see the faces and fountain that you do.

Actually, it looks like the number 58 or 53.

I have blown that photo up there and looked at those chicken scratchings and I just am not sure it is anything at all.
Maybe it is a map, if so, it’s unclear.
wilhouse

in my opion (given im just an novice at this) i think you should concentrate on the origin of the larkspur to find out were it is commonly grown and if you look at the bottom of the piller with the sphere on the top you see an image it looks like some sort of small tree dwelling animal i have been trying to figure out what it is it kinda looks like some sort of bird, also the one stone in the front of the image has a crack in it with 5 marks going through it it also might be a clue but like i said im just a novice to this but its a thought!

LOL, been there. It was built after 82!
wilhouse

WR, so do you think there’s something wilhouse was missing when BP told him that digging in the Children’s Zoo was the right idea?

Unknown

Unknown:
Came across a nice history of the park the other day…
http://www.hermannpark.org/pdfs/Fox_history.pdf

WR here is more detailed info
http://www.hermannpark.org/pdfs/master_plan.pdf
and if you still think its findable maybe look into the co.
hanna olin ltd

Cheers wilhouse. Could you confirm, what was built after ’82 exactly…? The golf course and garden center were there, so I guess there was some kind of fence between them, but the “genie square” is more central to this theory. I’d like to date that and the star…
(The rhino horn was another possible hint for this location.)
Came across a nice history of the park the other day…
http://www.hermannpark.org/pdfs/Fox_history.pdf

I was searching for things with 92 steps, in trying to figure out Verse 8.  There are quite a bit!  The most notable is “El Castillo” in Mexico (it IS in North America):
http://www.mexperience.com/inmexico/photos/10chichen.htm
Please take a moment to look at the pictures of the nearby columns — they look strikingly similar to Image 8.
However, if you look at the verse, it appears that after climbing these 92 steps, you then continue your journey.  So, with “El Castillo,” or any structure that has 92 steps on it, you have nowhere to go — so it seems that the verse does not apply here.
However, I posted the link since the columns look very similar, and the idea of the Arabian fairies coming to Mexico seems to fit.  Also, if the authors of the book were going to hide 12 treasures in North America, they would probably hide at least 1 in Canada and 1 in Mexico.  Just my thoughts.

Yes, that helps.  Do you have any pictures of the entrance to the old CZ–whether old or current ones from your trips?  I understand where it is in the zoo but seeing some pictures of that area might help spark new ideas…

maltedfalcon

you mis-spoke you said “Nothing in this image is a good fit for the Hermann park theory”
when what you meant to say is: “Nothing in this image is a good fit for my Hermann park theory”
it fits my Hermann Park theory, perfectly. I hope to get out to houston next year. LOL that being said Even Mark thinks my theory is wrong.

Certainly, I did not. I don’t at all subscribe to the Hermann park theory, it’s all yours.

jayheedan1

Certainly, I did not. I don’t at all subscribe to the Hermann park theory, it’s all yours.

oh well in that case I was wrong, you did not mis-speak, you are just then incorrect.

Unknown

Unknown:
Further exploring my thoughts about clues in the text do help confirm locations

It might help you to know that this is what people were doing before they had an understanding of how the puzzle was supposed to work. Most of the location confirmers are in the Images.

I get that there clues in the picture and they largely confirmed the location. I’m not exactly new to this hunt, this is year thirteen for me on the hunt and I was one of those who have been looking and using text as well as image clues for possible casque sites. Understanding that all that is required is to match one verse with one image to solve. Other than the possible coordinates for Huston, TX nothing in this image is a good fit for the Hermann park theory. The image clues exactly matched the Cleveland and chicago finds. Why would this one be different?

Unknown

Unknown:
Why would this one be different?

Because if it was exactly the same, this puzzle would have been solved years ago. Possibly with Preiss’ assistance, but solved none the less.

Further exploring my thoughts about clues in the text do help confirm locations, as posted under “the vanishing” sub, I feel that the Arabian immigrants went to the Southwest/Navajo region (Persian rug weavers teaching the native peoples to master the art of weaving). There are several other indicators in the text as well, such as “a desert so dry the land is scattered with the bones of cactus,” indicating black forrest, a petrified forest in Arizona. As well as others, I don’t think I listed in the other forum.
In this review, I am still unconvinced of five verses have actually been locked down to an image/location. I get that there is a large effort for Hermann park in Houston, and I can see some of the arguments for but some also seem off, understanding there has been decades of change that could be expected. Also noting that it wasn’t actually confirmed by Priess, only that “it wouldn’t be a waste of time to dig there.” The book said originally if the solve was correct, or mostly correct as the case of the original casque find, Priess confirmed even though they had some of the details wrong. Maybe just to get sluggish book sales on an upturn?
Anyhow I refocused on image 8 the Arabian immigration. I could make some arguments that it links to many of the verses if I tried hard enough. One that seemed to start falling into place easily was a pairing with verse 7.
I had already done some research about Arabic immigration to the SouthWest and image comparison.
This is when I came across the Hi Jolly monument, in Quartzite Arizona, a very close match and look to the camel in the image on top of the pillar. I like this cause he was an immigrant from Arabic/Greek heritage, leading a Camel Corps from Texas to California across the deserts for a US road/railway route.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi_Jolly# … 080707.JPG
Now set my sights on the Arizona area of the Navajo territory. Did several more hours of internet research. Then decided reread early posts, ahh I wished I would have done that first then I would have read that fox and cthree already poked at it being in Arizona early on, Then goatlady posted the Hi Jolly image as well,
Why didn’t I start there? But anyhow I digress.
I am wondering if the verse and clues in the image could possibly lead us across Interstate 10 (I-10) from Phoenix to the casque location.
Verse 7:
At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
(The original proposed name for Phoenix, AZ was Stonewall)
http://arizonaoddities.com/2010/01/how- … -its-name/
(The desert rain causes the air to smell sweet because of the creosote bush, oils from the leaves mix with other elements in the environment- giving off a sweet smell.)
http://www.azfamily.com/story/35878976/ … in-arizona
Not far away
High posts are three
Not sure, a place near Phoenix?
Education and Justice
For all to see
Sounds from the sky
Near ace is high
current guess is something to do with one of the plane/aviation shows/museums in Arizona. Because it mentions sounds from the sky seems a reference more to do with air shows than gambling/poker.
Running north, but first across
In jewel’s direction
The I-10 goes NW across from Phoenix towards California, along the way is the Hi Jolly monument.
Is an object
Of Twain’s attention
Maybe a quote of his, talking about the Yuma natives? off I-10 as well as other locations. There is also a Mark Twain themed Spa/resort somewhere in Arizona I think.
Giant pole
Giant step
Don’t know many things could be giant poles in Arizona from literally giant totems to the plateaus of the SW that look like stand alone towers.
To the place
The casque is kept.
probably exactly as stated.
I could be wrong, not sure that Priess would have taken us on a state-wide hunt but the I-10 seems to be a tourist trek, with things to see along the roadside.
Anyone live or been to the area that could shed insight or debunk some thoughts?

jayheedan1

Other than the possible coordinates for Huston, TX nothing in this image is a good fit for the Hermann park theory. The image clues exactly matched the Cleveland and chicago finds. Why would this one be different?

you mis-spoke you said “Nothing in this image is a good fit for the Hermann park theory”
when what you meant to say is: “Nothing in this image is a good fit for my Hermann park theory”
it fits my Hermann Park theory, perfectly. I hope to get out to houston next year. LOL that being said Even Mark thinks my theory is wrong.

Yes, that’s it.  Just a plain box, clear on each side, with white “caulking” on each seam.  If you are probing, don’t probe too forcefully, or you may break it.

yeah, my guess is, if I find it, it’ll be in pieces by the time I am done…
wilhouse

Fenix my friend I have always valued your opinions and comments, as I have everyone on this board.  I have done a lot of soul searching about all this. I hate it that the spot I think it is in is fairly open.  I hate it that some of the verse confirmers are not there.  But the image is an identical match. I know the exact spot he was standing in when he imagined the image. If the image is not merely represetative, but is a “map” to the treasure location, then it is in the dirt by the party room.  If the image is merely “representational” then I can’t pinpoint it, and it will be lost.  Give me some ideas and I will do the best I can to get the backhoe to dig in those areas.
wilhouse
1.  I don’t believe Brownie is the spout.  If you are looking back from treasure’s ground you have passed the spout.  The positioning of Brownie at the time would make it extremely difficult to pass him, be in a digging locale and still be able to see him.
I don’t agree:  in order to get to where I think the treasure is you go right by Brownie.  it’s about 20 feet away, so if you’re at the Party Room, you would “look back” to see him.
2.  The areas you are digging are not secluded enough.  Egbert mentioned this again recently.  I know the director says it is possible someone could climb in at night or get away with digging because of the chaos of construction I still find it highly unlikely that BP would have done either.
look, it’s either in the CZ or not in the CZ.  There’s nowhere “secluded” in the CZ. It’s all open.  But the backside, where I am, is not near the entrance, so you would be completely unseen from the zoo proper if the CZ was closed.  Do I like it? no. Is it possible? yes. no one has given me a better idea or option. BTW, I believe that neither the Milwaukee nor Florida areas are secluded at all. They are right in the open.
Where does this lead?  I have a feeling the spout may just be the one that shoots high into the air from the reflection pond(is that correct?).  I imagine you can look back and see this from most anywhere.
the reflection pond spout is over 1/4 mile away from the CZ, maybe farther. you can’t see it from anywhere in the zoo except the very entrance.  the spout could be at the aquatunnel, but even that is hard to see unless you are right next to it.
As for the location, what would have been behind the auditorium?  How about between the concessions and the nursery?  East of Africa and Asia?
there’s essentially only concrete behind the auditorium. but behind the auditorium, your view is completely blocked off, so there’s absolutely no spout to be seen.  yes, there’s dirt areas east of africa / asia  and between the concessions and the nursery.  I have dug in all those places, and yes, it could still be there in one those spots. But those spots are LESS secluded and more easily seen from the CZ entrance and zoo proper.
The last question I have is how are the globe lights that are on poles fixed into the ground?  Is there a base?  If so are some cement?
all but two light poles have always been in concrete. None of them have bases, just poles in the ground. One of them is in a dirt area to the east of the auditorium, which we have dug up partly and hope to finish with the backhoe.  The other is by the nursery, and is now covered with asphalt that was poured for a handicapped ramp up to the nursery.  It could possibly be under there.

Has anyone figured out the significance of the stiching on the square at the bottom?
I’m still trying to catch up on all the threads here

something nice and simple…
Using the mirrored image 8, and a map of Herman Park, consider the relative position of these three items: star, pillar, stone sphere at top.
if the large stone pillar symbolises the long lake, and the stone sphere represents the circular Sam Houston Monument, then what is at the position of the star? Oh, a planetarium!
As confirmation, the stone sphere is not sitting exactly on the pillar. It is very slightly out of alignment. Next, zooming in very closely on the map, notice that the memorial feature is slightly out of alignment too.
https://goo.gl/maps/MmbFo
(9146)

Thanks again for the great pictures…i love the up close stuff ;]

Image 8 for me is all about perspective. None of the other pictures seem to show as much foreground to background “busyness”.  But I’ll get to that point soon.
On the forward column there seems to be an “8” there – or a pair of musical notes on its side.  Although not blatant – this might be recognizable on-site.
Further up the column is a dimple like mark.
I have always found it curious how the shadows of the columns and the “spout-man” were not aligned.  Also, the shadow of the “gem” is going the wrong way – that is, just a bit; it could be nothing.  Secondly, since the shadows are profound (as if coming from the SUN), that four pointed star in the upper left-hand corner can’t be the SUN.  Could this be true in the other pictures, as well?  Using red-triangles in the next picture I have tried to show the difference in shadows.
The Rhino-Pole sort of looks like the top of a PEZ candy dispenser:
But alas, PEZ has lots of other animals – but no Rhinoceros!

wilhouse
Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:54 am

neVar, how about some of your graphics magic?
On the front column with the orb on it, at the very bottom, are some ?something? a diamond? an 8? I can’t get it clear enough.
can you help?
wilhouse