Unknown

Unknown:
Preiss claimed that the puzzles easy and were expected to been solved quickly

He never made any such claim. While it would have been to his advantage to have his target audience think the puzzles were easy, what he actually said was that he was afraid that the puzzles would be solved quickly (presumably before he sold enough books) and his publisher would be mad at him. The difference is subtle, but again, that was Preiss.

Glossiphoniidae

Hall of 100 columns.

IRAN

Unknown

Unknown:
Or did I miss something from step 1 to step 1A?

I’m sorry, I’m not being consistent.
Step 1 is matching an Image to a city. It’s pretty easy for puzzles like Chicago, New York, and New Orleans as examples, even if you don’t live there, but then it gets progressively harder. Fortunately, Preiss starts including other clues to get you past this hurdle, while simultaneously making the simpler clues harder to find, or removing them entirely. No one who has even the most basic understanding of this puzzle argues this point anymore for most of the casque cities, even though they aren’t 100% sure we have all the cities correct. So, Step 1A would be to find the easiest cities using the most basic clues, and Step 1B would be to figure out the rest, using the same or similar methodologies that follow the progression.
This thread is about Step 2, and the assumption is that the same methodology that we applied to Step 1 would apply to Step 2. Which is to say there is a way to know which Verse goes with which Image. And that the way will not be consistent over all 12 puzzles, but will change as we move from the easy ones (2A) to the harder ones (2B), but in a logical manner. I’d say that the fact that most reasonable people no longer argue about most (but not all) of the Verse/Image connections suggests that this is true as well.
My guess is that by the time this thread has run its course, only unreasonable people will argue that the commonly accepted Verse/Image/City connections aren’t correct. Everyone else will be able to move to Step 3, which is finding the correct park.

Spiritr

let’s say 2 is what we wanted to achieve, using X as unknown variable, in this case: the confirmer
1X+1X=2 , 1+1≠X
understand?

I think this is essentially what I was saying but it seemed to me that people were applying the “comes in twos” idea to two different puzzle images.

No, I think most people just apply it as “1 Picture + 1 Verse = 2”
What most people didn’t realized or ignored was 12÷12=1, but this “1”, should come in 2s, in this term: X², or 2 X/X

Spiritr

No, I think most people just apply it as “1 Picture + 1 Verse = 2

Its split about 50/50

Unknown

Unknown:
gray peak man

Yeah, I get it Josh.
1)We are meant to start our search at Gray Peak because…
2)From there, we are led to another place because…
3)We repeat Step 2 an indeterminate amount of times because…
4) Eventually we end up in Fort Hamilton, or Fort Hamilton High School, or The Hamilton Quicky Mart because…
5) And then we dig. Somewhere. Because.
As I used to tell Erexere (no offense intended E), who used a similar methodology for a while, the puzzle can not depend on highly subjective connections that only one person at a time can see. If everyone can’t see what you are trying to show, then what you are trying to show is most likely wrong. This thread is about showing people things that everyone, including kids in Boise Idaho, could have seen initially. Unfortunately for that kid, eventually the puzzle gets granular and only kids in certain places (or who would have been willing to travel there) would have been able to solve for X. And while this is no longer true today, it isn’t entirely false either.
But we are getting way ahead of ourselves.

I never understood the fixation on Hamilton high.
One random wiki commenter said byron went to school there, so all of the sudden its his simple roots?
Can we drop it now that we know he didnt go to school there?

Also, thank you 421 and ren for opening this conversation and sharing your ideas.
It’s really helping me understand the method behind the ideas of some vocal people… who without knowing the method they are using, just sound kind of crazy.
I’m curious, now that we can apply a work of art to the painting and find a city, we can use either something in the verse that calls out something in the painting to match a verse to a painting, or use a line from lit to match a verse to a city. But where do we go from there?
What is step 3? Comminities between the two that form a pattern? Why include the lat long, maps, and rebus if the point is to have us find these matches?

If we are to use paintings to identify a city what is the use of the lat and long coordinates in each image?

Unknown

Unknown:
Also, thank you 421 and ren for opening this conversation and sharing your ideas.

The ideas, as everyone has to know by now, are communal. However, the idea to share them in this way was all 421’s. Whatever his motivations, the results speak for themselves. Four21 answers the questions, by agreement, but since this information is already out there, Step 3 is using the methodology(s) we find in Steps 1 and 2 to isolate the Park.
Quite simply, there is a way(s) to KNOW we have the correct City (Step 1) and there is a way to KNOW we have the correct Image/Verse/City connection for almost all of the puzzles.* So, it follows that there should be a way to KNOW which Park we should be looking in for the Treasure Ground (Step 4) and within that, the dig spot (Step 5). And that none of that information, with the possible exception of Step 5, is subjective.
*I will allow that since this is a progressive puzzle, we may not be able to KNOW the last few combinations until we get further along with the easier puzzles, by design. Which ones are these you ask? Well, as I said, 421 answers the questions but I would say that they are the ones that we still argue about. So this might be a case where you don’t need me, or 421 at all. Which is really the whole point of this thread. To get everyone involved again.

Unknown

Unknown:
what is the use of the lat and long coordinates in each image?

C’mon people. Time to get involved. Surely someone here can answer this question besides me and 421.

jayheedan1

If we are to use paintings to identify a city what is the use of the lat and long coordinates in each image?

I think there are different sets of city confirmers used in each image — not every image will have the same set. You can find the co-ordinates (except for Milwaukee), or spot an iconic piece of architecture (except for New Orleans and perhaps Houston and Boston), or spot a map image of a state (FL, Ohio). My examples aren’t meant to be exhaustive here.

burnstyle

…now that we can apply a work of art to the painting and find a city…

Wait, what…?
So, there’s that St Augustine picture; if it’s being suggested that it’s a match, or a clue, then I don’t buy it. There’s a slight resemblance of pose, but I could find a similar match for anyone from Greta Garbo to Mickey Mouse.
Was there something else?

probably a better match

Mickey Mouse? Where?

Kalessin

I think there are different sets of city confirmers used in each image — not every image will have the same set. You can find the co-ordinates (except for Milwaukee), or spot an iconic piece of architecture (except for New Orleans and perhaps Houston and Boston), or spot a map image of a state (FL, Ohio). My examples aren’t meant to be exhaustive here.

So we have a map, or coordinates and or iconic structures pointing to a city but “fairy secrets come in two” so the painting/city pairing must be redundant or something imagined?

maltedfalcon

probably a better match

…yes, and quite possibly a reference, but the picture is just called “Spanish Conquistador”. I don’t see how you’re going to look at the image and think of that painting and go straight to St Augustine.
Sorry if I’ve missed the point, but most of the posts in this thread are so gnomic that it’s hard to know what the point is. I still have no idea where Ary Scheffer comes into it, and I think we’re a long way from establishing that each image links to a city directly via a work of art.

WhiteRabbit

Wait, what…?
So, there’s that St Augustine picture; if it’s being suggested that it’s a match, or a clue, then I don’t buy it. There’s a slight resemblance of pose, but I could find a similar match for anyone from Greta Garbo to Mickey Mouse.
Was there something else?

Honestly, I’m not sold on this method, I think the matches to the park in the verse, the map in the image, and the lat and long stand on their own and don’t need anything else.
I’m going with the theory and conceding that point because I’m curious how this method works over all the puzzles and how connections are being made. It’s interesting, whether it is correct or not.

at rabbit it also used to look like the bay around foy, when you consider there has been hurricanes and sea level rise.

burnstyle

It’s interesting, whether it is correct or not.

Aha, fair enough.

Euhirudinea

C’mon people. Time to get involved. Surely someone here can answer this question besides me and 421.

LOL! Nice! I like this one, thumbs up for renovator.
Instead of saying you don’t know, you actually did the opposite, and yet nobody could proof you wrong because you basically said nothing! Brilliant!!!

Euhirudinea

Fair enough. However, here is what you have revealed so far:
1) We are meant to begin our journey at the SoL because…
2) We are meant to travel to something else because…
3) From there, we are meant to go someplace else because…
4) We are meant to end up in a place that isn’t even in a park because…
5) And once there, we are meant to dig because…
I’m sorry, but that’s damn near Josh Cornell territory. There has got to be an easier way or the New York puzzle is unsolvable.

gray peak man

Unknown

Unknown:
I think the matches to the park in the verse

No wonder you are not sold. You are still trying to use the clues meant for Steps 1 and 2 to solve Step 3.
The verse leads you in and out of Lake Park, where we have found…nothing. The verse leads you to FoY Park, where we have found…nothing (well,except an irate owner). The verse leads you to the overlook in Fort Raleigh, where we have found…nothing. The verse leads you to the Children’s Zoo in Houston, where we found…nothing. Not even confirmation that we had found the correct park from BP. It only gets less reliable from there. As a matter of fact, the only place where the verse seems to work is in Chicago, since the Cleveland verse just leads you around the park, not to it.
Just a thought, but it might be time to kill this theory with an ax as well.

WhiteRabbit

…yes, and quite possibly a reference, but the picture is just called “Spanish Conquistador”. I don’t see how you’re going to look at the image and think of that painting and go straight to St Augustine.
.

Because at the time of the construction of the puzzles and for the decade before, Florida and St Augustine in particular had been pushing the spanish historical narrative as part of a massive drive to attract tourists
Images like this appeared in Time, newsweek, Life and National Geographic, not to mention Disney shows on TV All designed to attract people to come visit.
All advertising for the Castillo and st Augustine included many images like this.

Euhirudinea

Just a thought, but it might be time to kill this theory with an ax as well.

Which will probably be true as soon as the new alternate theory produces a better result.

Unknown

Unknown:
Instead of saying you don’t know, you actually did the opposite

Let me be clear then:
1) Four21 answers the questions.
2) The above does not mean that I can’t answer the questions, just that I probably won’t.
3) Both 421 and I know the answer to the question asked (which is why I said “besides”).
4) It is my opinion that others on here (and “at large”) can answer it as well. If I am wrong about that, see #1.
5) You use a lot of exclamation points, when none are really warranted.
Hope that helps.

Unknown

Unknown:
Which will probably be true as soon as the new alternate theory produces a better result.

Once again, confusing Step 5 with the others. At least you are consistent Matt. Let me ask you a question. Imagine for a minute that you are brand new to the puzzle, and the only thing you have, besides the book, are the two articles about how the casques was found in Cleveland and Chicago. What is the singular, most important take away you would have about finding them?

Euhirudinea

C’mon people. Time to get involved. Surely
someone
here can answer this question besides me and 421.

6) There is no six
7) *points at fox*
http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1081#p11966

At the risk of getting blasted by the Yodas on the forum, if Fairy Secrets come in twos, why can’t a particular symbol, image, number mean 2 things to the puzzle? For example, maybe 74 isn’t just the longitude for NY but, perhaps, another confirmer? Perhaps that church looks like St. Nicholas church but it confirms something else having to do with St. Nicholas?

Unknown

Unknown:
7) *points at fox*

Fair enough. Credit where credit is due. Thank you Fox.
So, while I am making lists, here’s another one:
1) New Orleans
2) Cleveland
3) San Francisco
4) Houston
5) Chicago
6) Charleston
7) Roanoke
8)
Boston
9) Saint Augustine
10) New York
11) Montreal
12) Milwaukee
Order is important, although not absolute. Thoughts?

I personally think this is a better match for St Augustin. Using a Spanish Conquistador, palm tree and a map.

Euhirudinea

Fair enough. Credit where credit is due. Thank you Fox.
So, while I am making lists, here’s another one:
1) New Orleans
2) Cleveland
3) San Francisco
4) Houston
5) Chicago
6) Charleston
7) Roanoke
8)
Boston
9) Saint Augustine
10) New York
11) Montreal
12) Milwaukee
Order is important, although not absolute. Thoughts?

Well….I wasn’t just trying to give fox credit….I was pointing out, that just like the logical (?) pairings, the lat / lon connection has been around for a long, long time.
As far as the order…not necessarily the order you presented, I see a progression from Montreal, down the Eastern Seaboard, across the Gulf to NOLA and Houston. Then, jumping to 3 spots close too JJP’s home. Followed by a single spot in the West coast.

maltedfalcon

Because at the time of the construction of the puzzles and for the decade before, Florida and St Augustine in particular had been pushing the spanish historical narrative as part of a massive drive to attract tourists…Images like this appeared in Time, newsweek, Life and National Geographic, not to mention Disney shows on TV All designed to attract people to come visit…All advertising for the Castillo and st Augustine included many images like this.

OK, but hang on; isn’t it a bit like looking at a picture of a horse, and saying, “aha, George Stubbs painted a horse. I think this is a clue for…horses!”
I can imagine that JJP might have picked up pictures of Spanish Conquistadors as reference images. But I can’t see how knowledge of that particular image is useful to solve the puzzle. (I’m not saying you necessarily think it is.)
*edit*
OK, I can imagine a Universe in which someone looks at that figure on horseback and thinks, “Hang on, that looks familiar – oh yeah, it’s that picture by Remington, what’s it called –
Spanish Conquistador
…now, they appear in promotional material for St Augustine; I guess that’s where the casque is.”
But it’s a very distant Universe; it’s several dimensions away from the one I inhabit.
This isn’t a dig at you MF; just trying to understand the theory behind this thread.

Unknown

Unknown:
if Fairy Secrets come in twos, why can’t a particular symbol, image, number mean 2 things to the puzzle?

Who says it can’t? As long as those two things don’t contradict each other within the established methodology (which the Board Yodas are still trying to noodle out), my sense is that in many cases, they probably do. But there is always going to be a primary purpose for any clue set, IMO. For example, a map can indicate the presence of a casque (IN Ohio, IN Florida, etc.), or it can serve as an iconic starting point for the journey (begin in Charleston, but go to Sullivan’s Island). But in order for the puzzle to be truly objective, it can’t do both.

Unknown

Unknown:
Well….I wasn’t just trying to give fox credit….I was pointing out, that just like the logical (?) pairings, the lat / lon connection has been around for a long, long time.

Duly noted. But as I said EZ, credit where credit is due. And Fox deserves all the credit here. As to your second point, most of the information being presented has been around for a long time. What’s happening now is an attempt to take this information and look at it in a new ways. Because the old ways clearly have limitations.

Euhirudinea

Once again, confusing Step 5 with the others. At least you are consistent Matt. Let me ask you a question. Imagine for a minute that you are brand new to the puzzle, and the only thing you have, besides the book, are the two articles about how the casques was found in Cleveland and Chicago. What is the singular, most important take away you would have about finding them?

Ah! Thank you for asking! I would take away this…

WhiteRabbit

OK, but hang on; isn’t it a bit like looking at a picture of a horse, and saying, “aha, George Stubbs painted a horse. I think this is a clue for…horses!”
I can imagine that JJP might have picked up pictures of Spanish Conquistadors as reference images. But I can’t see how knowledge of that particular image is useful to solve the puzzle. (I’m not saying you necessarily think it is.
OK, I can imagine a Universe in which someone looks at that figure on horseback and thinks, “Hang on, that looks familiar – oh yeah, it’s that picture by Remington, what’s it called –
Spanish Conquistador
…now, they appear in promotional material for St Augustine; I guess that’s where the casque is.”
But it’s a very distant Universe; it’s several dimensions away from the one I inhabit.
This isn’t a dig at you MF; just trying to understand the theory behind this thread.

no worries!
yes but it wasn’t just isolated to the remington. you have to look at it in perspective- more like this…

Unknown

Unknown:
Ah! Thank you for asking! I would take away this…

Um, you (Maltedfalcon) might, but the normal reader probably wouldn’t. Neither the Terminal Tower nor the Water Tower factored significantly into the original finds. They are just artifacts (your word, not mine) of the puzzle’s construction. In both cases, the actual hunt pretty much started AT the park.
BTW, how’s that new thread coming along? Looks like you’re off to a good start.

Euhirudinea

Um, you (Maltedfalcon) might, but the normal reader probably wouldn’t. Neither the Terminal Tower nor the Water Tower factored significantly into the original finds. They are just artifacts (your word, not mine) of the puzzle’s construction. In both cases, the actual hunt pretty much started AT the park.
BTW, how’s that new thread coming along? Looks like you’re off to a good start.

you didnt ask about the orignal hunt you asked what a new reader would take away now. and all of this info is out there now.
Excellent, thank you for asking , working on assembling it all, there is a lot please be patient. BTW I never said thread.

Euhirudinea

Neither the Terminal Tower nor the Water Tower factored significantly into the original finds. They are just artifacts (your word, not mine) of the puzzle’s construction.

”
Also beg to differ, is the water tower or the terminal tower, something that JJP used to inspire the painting, or are they included as actual clues in the hunt
this is the question. Is the fact that Chicago’s image is based on Grant on the $50 a clue? it was grant park after all, or is it just a guideline for the painter.
certainly nobody put together the grant connection before the casque was found, but certainly a chicago native recognized the water tower as a chicago indicator.

Unknown

Unknown:
you asked what a new reader would take away

Here is the set-up:
“Imagine for a minute that you are brand new to the puzzle, and the
only thing
you have, besides the book, are the two articles about how the casques was found in Cleveland and Chicago.”
And here is the question:
“What is the singular, most important take away you would have about finding them?”
You are entitled to your own opinion, but mine is that there is no way that a new reader, armed with only those two articles is going to come up with anything close to your “Iconic to Park” theory. What they are going to conclude I would hope, is that even if you KNOW you are in the right place, and even if you KNOW that you have all the clues, and even if you have BP assisting you, the casque is still a pain in the backside to dig up. So much so that lack of progress on Step 5, especially in 2018, counts for almost nothing IMO.

Euhirudinea

Here is the set-up:
“Imagine for a minute that you are brand new to the puzzle, and the
only thing
you have, besides the book, are the two articles about how the casques was found in Cleveland and Chicago.”
And here is the question:
“What is the singular, most important take away you would have about finding them?”
You are entitled to your own opinion, but mine is that there is no way that a new reader, armed with only those two articles is going to come up with anything close to your “Iconic to Park” theory. What they are going to conclude I would hope, is that even if you KNOW you are in the right place, and even if you KNOW that you have all the clues, and even if you have BP assisting you, the casque is still a pain in the backside to dig up. So much so that lack of progress on Step 5, especially in 2018, counts for almost nothing IMO.

1st ’cause I keep having to scroll up and down could you repost your list of steps?
2nd There is a huge number of people brand new to the puzzle, and I am constantly flabbergasted (10pts – word use) by how fast they work through the puzzles coming up with “original” theories (even though other people were there before ) analyzing them, discarding them and moving forward. It’s like watching the last 20 years in fast forward. I seriously expect them to soon blast past where we are now and start digging up casques.
3rd yes it is a pain in the ass to finally & specifically locate. – so instead of just a shovel, we will need to be able to apply things like ground probes, GPR, Sonar, EMI, EMS, boroscopes and other remote sensing tools to help locate them, it is the 21st century after all.

If I were new to the hunt and only had the two articles and the picture and verse (book? Or are you suggesting there are clues in the rest of the text?) I would surmise that the picture identified a city and gave visual confirmers that I was in the right track. The verse was the path guide to find the visual clues and eventually the casque.

karleen

At the risk of getting blasted by the Yodas on the forum, if Fairy Secrets come in twos, why can’t a particular symbol, image, number mean 2 things to the puzzle? For example, maybe 74 isn’t just the longitude for NY but, perhaps, another confirmer? Perhaps that church looks like St. Nicholas church but it confirms something else having to do with St. Nicholas?

let’s say 2 is what we wanted to achieve, using X as unknown variable, in this case: the confirmer
1X+1X=2 , 1+1≠X
understand?

Unknown

Unknown:
strike 13 wrote: why is it slow anyway

Cross posted from the image 1 thread.
Four21 answered: There is a somewhat tangential strategy involved that prompts it to be slow. The primary strategy of the thread is to release a lot of information, mostly fact, with little-to-no opinion. The tangential strategy is the AKA portion, which involves waiting for opportune times to post it.
renovator answered: I’m pretty sure this question was addressed in the thread Strike. But in case it was a casualty of the purge, the short answer is to give people a chance to figure things out for themselves*. It’s still a puzzle, isn’t it?
*Note: I am not now, nor have I ever claimed to have all the answers. And I have retrieved the exact same number of casques as most of the posters on this forum, which is to say the the next one I dig up will be my first. All I am saying is that there has to be an objective, logical way to solve this puzzle, and the next person who can put all the steps together is the person most likely to find Casque #3, or lead someone else directly to it.
*Note to White Rabbit: This belongs in the “Slow Spill” thread.
And now it is.

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m curious with the amount of tension/bickering going on…

The tension that you speak of is by design, and has nothing to do with the rest of your question. What goes on in this forum these days has very little to do with the progress being made toward solving one or more of these puzzles, and should in no way be taken as indicative of what is happening elsewhere. For the most part, it’s just a few frustrated people trying to make themselves relevant, while doing their level best to make this place irrelevant. Unfortunately for them, they can’t erase all the good information contained in these threads. The best they can do is make it harder to find.
With regard to your actual question, this thread alone should be proof that the puzzle has a logical and methodical construction, and progress has been made, and continues to be made on figuring out exactly what that is. Which will lead to where these things are, or at the very least, where Preiss buried them 37 years ago. I am on record as saying that of the 10 remaining, at least 6 sites are still more or less intact. And if the casques are still there, we will find them, or evidence of their existence eventually.
Or possibly sooner.

Euhirudinea

The tension that you speak of is by design, and has nothing to do with the rest of your question. What goes on in this forum these days has very little to do with the progress being made toward solving one or more of these puzzles, and should in no way be taken as indicative of what is happening elsewhere. For the most part, it’s just a few frustrated people trying to make themselves relevant, while doing their level best to make this place irrelevant. Unfortunately for them, they can’t erase all the good information contained in these threads. The best they can do is make it harder to find.
With regard to your actual question, this thread alone should be proof that the puzzle has a logical and methodical construction, and progress has been made, and continues to be made on figuring out exactly what that is. Which will lead to where these things are, or at the very least, where Preiss buried them 37 years ago. I am on record as saying that of the 10 remaining, at least 6 sites are still more or less intact. And if the casques are still there, we will find them, or evidence of their existence eventually.
Or possibly sooner.

You think the Charleston one was buried under the statue that then backhoe and new slab would have destroyed, or that one still out there?

Euhirudinea

I am on record as saying that of the 10 remaining, at least 6 sites are still more or less intact. And if the casques are still there, we will find them, or evidence of their existence eventually.
Or possibly sooner.

I think (and these are merely my speculations, based on where I think things are and how many people are working there.)
San Francisco – intact- will be found within the year
New York – intact will be found within the year
Houston, possibly intact (30% chance) Location will either be confirmed, through parts or is totally unrecoverable.
Milwaukee- intact, will be found within the year
Boston – no idea
Roanoke – no idea
St Augustine – small chance it will be located within the year
Charleston – pretty good chance it is still intact.
Montreal – no idea
New Orleans -Not intact. – More research needs to be done.

Saw the Expedition episode at gym with no sound last night and have spent a good 6-8 hours since reading up through here and the wiki and a few other places on them. Unfortunately none of them are hidden in my state, but we do have a big annual hunt here and I enjoy every few months going and reading through all the old solutions.
I’m curious with the amount of tension/bickering going on if the more reasonable folks expect that one or two of the casques (Milwaukee, San Francisco, or New Orleans likely) are going to be found in the next couple months or not. Would be really cool to see some still out there hidden and that they weren’t stumbled upon with construction and just tossed aside in the last 35 years.

I think the coast may be clear.
Let’s fire this thread back up.

dosethree

You say it it worked for the two solved ones but did it work for Cleveland? Cleveland didn’t didn’t really take you on a journey, as it more described the area around the park and then the dig spot, “In between two countries” doesn’t have an image match I’m aware of. “As the road curves” might be a match for the curvy tail of the centaur, but it doesn’t seem like the same level of image match if that’s what you’re referring to? Or maybe the “backwards” order of verse 4 is significant and “seek the columns” is the “start” with a sweet image match
In the case of Boston (verse 3/image 11) which seems very trailesque we haven’t really found a good image match at the suspected starting point of the Boston Public Library (closest is perhaps the Trinity Church for the castle in Pandora’s box) though the area hasn’t changed much.
edit: specifying verse number

“Beneath two countries”
“As the road curves”
On this “curved road,” you can see the back of the Italian Gardens, which has the lion & fountain… very prominently centered in image 4. Image verifier… So, not really a line 1 start here image verifier but the second line gets us on the road and then we see our image verifier.
Verse 4 can definitely be read backwards for certain lines. In the Japanese translation, it is even stated that one line may go with the previous line or the subsequent line.
As you walk the path from where you start, you see quite a few image verifiers. However, in reality with this particular puzzle, you could actually just go straight to the wall and completely miss everything else. If I am not mistaken, please correct me if I am wrong, I believe Brian & Andy stated in the podcast that when they got there, they went straight to the wall and then looked around to verify. However, I believe they had already identified everything so there was no real need to start at the beginning once they got there. More like a, “let’s have a look… oh yeah… this is it!”
This one was not as much of a journey as Chicago, but it still leads you to the columns, think Greek, … solution. If you were to walk this particular path from “Beneath two countries…” to the wall, it is only about 0.2 miles. The Chicago path from M & B to fence & fixture would be about 0.4 miles.
The 2 solved puzzle verses seem to pinpoint a dig spot very precisely. The others, maybe not so much… yet to be seen. The theory is that they should… Guess we’ll see when the next one is brought back to daylight.

those sign weren’t there in 1979, Parkgate was called Pollock Dr., East Blvd was Upper Dr., MLK Dr. was called Lower Dr. it was NEVER Euclid Ave.

Scrappy929

Here you go. M & B set in stone. I would say Mozart & Beethoven are quite famous. Japanese translation nailed it. Also take note of the shape encircled in green, even down to the “X” going through the center…

The image match is pretty interesting. The wiki for image 5 has that symbol down as matching to a old removed facade of a building (sullivan center 1 south state street) which is about 5 blocks away from the treasure site, but this is more attractive because it matches the start of the verse (and is still there for us to look at).
I always though that (at least for treasure map style verses like Chicago) there should be an image confirmer where you are supposed to start and perhaps at every step along the way, Byrons’ way of confirming you are on the right trail. Without the image confirmer its pretty hard to follow successive cryptic verse clues (though verse 12 seems far less cryptic than rest…). And of course, in the case of Chicago they found a mistaken verse+image match to start the trail that works even better than the real one (since the image match is so clear and it gets you right where you need to be).
They are both pretty good matches to my eye, but the wiki one is dead on. I wonder which one is correct?

dosethree

The image match is pretty interesting. The wiki for image 5 has that symbol down as matching to a old removed facade of a building (sullivan center 1 south state street) which is about 5 blocks away from the treasure site, but this is more attractive because it matches the start of the verse (and is still there for us to look at).
I always though that (at least for treasure map style verses like Chicago) there should be an image confirmer where you are supposed to start and perhaps at every step along the way, Byrons’ way of confirming you are on the right trail. Without the image confirmer its pretty hard to follow successive cryptic verse clues (though verse 12 seems far less cryptic than rest…). And of course, in the case of Chicago they found a mistaken verse+image match to start the trail that works even better than the real one (since the image match is so clear and it gets you right where you need to be).
They are both pretty good matches to my eye, but the wiki one is dead on. I wonder which one is correct?

The one I posted is correct, and I can say pretty confidently that it is the one intended for the clue. The one shown on the wiki is similar but the one where M & B are set in stone is exact. Notice the “X” going through the center on both the image and the one on the building. The one on the wiki does not have the “X.” Not to mention, it is right above M & B… the first line in the verse. This was supposed to be the first clue to let you know that you were on the right path. We know now that, even though the first line was not interpreted correctly, they were still able to make it to the next verse /clue and continue with the solve.
I agree with you that we would think that we need an image verifier from where we are supposed to start. Based upon the two solved puzzles, that should be the case. However, it seems that the remaining puzzles might or might not follow that theory. We can conclude though, we may not necessarily have to have all of them… maybe just a couple others that would get us where we need to be.
Some of these image identifiers may be quite small as in the case of the above image. We would hope that even if we are missing one or two that may be lost to time, that the other ones in the image remain. Although, the one or two that may be missing could be the ones most needed or even the only ones.

You say it it worked for the two solved ones but did it work for Cleveland? Cleveland didn’t didn’t really take you on a journey, as it more described the area around the park and then the dig spot, “In between two countries” doesn’t have an image match I’m aware of. “As the road curves” might be a match for the curvy tail of the centaur, but it doesn’t seem like the same level of image match if that’s what you’re referring to? Or maybe the “backwards” order of verse 4 is significant and “seek the columns” is the “start” with a sweet image match
In the case of Boston (verse 3/image 11) which seems very trailesque we haven’t really found a good image match at the suspected starting point of the Boston Public Library (closest is perhaps the Trinity Church for the castle in Pandora’s box) though the area hasn’t changed much.
edit: specifying verse number

Euhirudinea

I don’t get it Josh, specifically what you think is (are) the most important clue(s) of the puzzle. That’s why I asked. But if you don’t want to share, that’s fine. As you said, you are under no obligation. Carry on.

the most important clues tell you how to do the puzzle.

but you wont realize that unless you figured out how to do the puzzle lol (hence the irony)…

Unknown

Unknown:
but you wont realize that unless you figured out how to do the puzzle

Imagine a spiral, instead of the circle you have described, and I think we agree.

Unknown

Unknown:
What if we were not supposed to go so far down the rabbit hole? Maybe we should be “under thinking it”?

Respectfully, there is at least one more option:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KndSVsY5HWM

I get the thought process, but wondering if opening pandoras box has lead us too deep and past what we should be seeing vs. seeing what inspired their creativity?
Just my two pennies…
Regards,
Mac

For example… what if one was able to determine a park by researching clues within it and match them to an image and from there determine a dig spot.
Just trying to look at things from different perspectives, thought processes and angles.
Regards,
Mac

That is where I have been headed. Too many shoe horned theories. Too much denial against things that could be true.
Stop me if I am not understanding fully, but I understand this to be more about throwing away a lot of information and looking at things differently than have in the past. A new way of seeing.
Regards,
Mac

Unknown

Unknown:
what if one was able to determine a park by researching clues within it and match them to an image

No what if required. This is exactly how they found the casques in Cleveland and Chicago. So it’s natural to assume that this is the methodology we are meant to use. The problem is that it does not seem to work too well for some of the other puzzles, and it doesn’t work at all for the rest. At least, not with the same certainty we had for the first two. And this is true whether you are talking about the path we take to get to the park, or the visual confirmers we find when we get there. IMO, of course.

NO, if you hold up a casque right now telling me you used a different method I use, I’ll say you’re full of shit and that’s fake.
for at least couple weeks, and then I’ll say you’re not telling the truth about the location and method.

Unknown

Unknown:
if you hold up a casque right now telling me you used a different method

Once again, confusing Step 5 with Step 3. At least you guys are consistent.

Euhirudinea

No what if required. This is exactly how they found the casques in Cleveland and Chicago. So it’s natural to assume that this is the methodology we are meant to use. The problem is that it does not seem to work too well for some of the other puzzles, and it doesn’t work at all for the rest. At least, not with the same certainty we had for the first two. And this is true whether you are talking about the path we take to get to the park, or the visual confirmers we find when we get there. IMO, of course.

Agreed.
I was attempting to look at a puzzle differently than I had been. On a very simple level that was succesful on the 2 that came up. With that said I have only been looking at 1 puzzle.
Maybe I will just lurk this thread as I dont seem to understand what is trying to be accomplished. Probably from my lack of time and knowledge of the other puzzles.
Regards,
Mac

Unknown

Unknown:
fish

“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Don’t teach a man to fish, and feed yourself. He’s a grown man. And fishing’s not that hard.” Ron Swanson

Unknown

Unknown:
go fishing

when you can’t find the fairy secrets.

Euhirudinea

“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Don’t teach a man to fish, and feed yourself. He’s a grown man. And fishing’s not that hard.” Ron Swanson

“Give a man a fire and he’s warm for a day, but set fire to him and he’s warm for the rest of his life.” – Terry Pratchett

Fenix

Do you have any 2’s? Do you have any hands?

A couple. But so do all men, and woman. They use left ones to get married. Some statues and paintings have hands. They can all be open and closed, and be used to show motion… like a 12 step process of going from clasped to opening arms to arms extended.
Rodin has a sweet display at Legion in SF of hands… The Secret.
Why do you ask?

Okay. Confirmed there is no intention to help further the hunt as previously expected. Thank you.

The fairy in image 11 pretty well matches a female figure in an John Singleton Copley painting, “The Red Cross Knight”. It’s certainly not his most famous painting — probably the most familiar image to Americans is his portrait of Paul Revere. The painting belongs to the National Gallery of Art in Washington DC.
From the chapters at the beginning of “The Secret”, the Fair Folk immigration origin for Boston is Italy, and one thought is that fairies from the origin cities are what appear in the images, so in theory it’s an Italian fairy. More info here:
http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/862 … mmigration
A four-leaf clover appears in one of her wings, which could well be a slightly-disguised symbol for the Boston Celtics NBA basketball team. The Celtics logo at the time, which is still in use) features leprechaun with three-leaf clovers on his vest. Sports logos do appear in some of the other images, for example, in the Chicago image, there’s a Bulls logo in a medallion hanging on the side.

that’s not true either, it really depends on your comprehensive ability.

You mean jack black revere?

DOOMer77

After spending the day slowly working my way through this thread, I am am left wondering, what have I learned that is a new way to approach the puzzles, and the answer is, nothing. This 5 step program is just a way to frame what I’ve been reading and what any other reasonably intelligent person would consider: Start macro, go micro. The easiest puzzles allow us to start micro and search for nano. Hell, a lucky google search led Brian directly to the X.
The idea of art and literature as inspiration is surely nothing new.

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP(s) have abandoned the thread before they weaved everything together. Personally, I was hoping to learn something new or at least a new way to look at the information that we have.
Personality conflicts and long standing grudges seem to have taken precedence over progress.

Unknown

Unknown:
I am am left wondering, what have I learned that is a new way to approach the puzzles, and the answer is, nothing.

I know right? And yet some people are still wondering about the commonly accepted City/Verse/Image connections. One possible explanation, as you have noted, is that they are not “reasonably intelligent”. Works for me.

Unknown

Unknown:
commonly accepted City/Verse/Image connections

you got a very good point here, it’s commonly accepted by common people based on guesses, and imaginations. Not intelligence .

Unknown

Unknown:
it’s commonly accepted by common people based on guesses, and imaginations.

Once a thing becomes common knowledge, people tend to care a lot less about the science behind it. They just accept it and move on with their daily lives. This thread is for the skeptics, knowing full well that no matter how clearly things are laid out, there will always be those that doubt. Either because the truly don’t understand, or because it serves some purpose not to understand.

Euhirudinea

Once a thing becomes common knowledge, people tend to care a lot less about the science behind it. They just accept it and move on with their daily lives. This thread is for the skeptics, knowing full well that no matter how clearly things are laid out, there will always be those that doubt. Either because the truly don’t understand, or because it serves some purpose not to understand.

yes and no, this thread is not for skeptics, at least not for me. Things were clearly laid out in the way as it was designed.
there’s no “doubt” about it, no one truly understand the purpose. Yet already made countless assumptions over it, that’s how it become commonly accepted, as time goes, when believe become belief, there’s no room for discussion anymore.

After spending the day slowly working my way through this thread, I am am left wondering, what have I learned that is a new way to approach the puzzles, and the answer is, nothing. This 5 step program is just a way to frame what I’ve been reading and what any other reasonably intelligent person would consider: Start macro, go micro. The easiest puzzles allow us to start micro and search for nano. Hell, a lucky google search led Brian directly to the X.
The idea of art and literature as inspiration is surely nothing new. The link of flower/clock/stone is also common knowledge at this point.
I’ve never considered the 11 moons as some sort of indicator for the other puzzles. I like this theory and will give it more consideration.
I don’t agree with the thought that the jewels become less obvious through the images. They all seem blantent to me. They seem as though they are painted very much like they will look in reality. Type of cut, etc…
The flowers do vary by the overall theme of each image. I see this as a painter blending them in with the unique qualities of the painting and not meant as a clue other than to verify match with clock and stone. There are paintings with more than 1 flower, however IMO it is obvious which is The Flower and which is a clue for the location.
As I focus mainly on Image 3 Verse 11, I am intriguided by the idea stayed that every Fairy is very intentional. I have not been able to find an image match for this fairy.
I don’t understand the ranking list of locations, can you explain your criteria for ranking?
The thing that has thrown me the most in this thread is the algebra. I don’t understand how solving for X in any those equations helps whatsoever.
This is my first post here in Q4T, my name is Brad and I am happy to entertain ideas, learn, play devils advocate, etc…. in civil discourse. My main goal is to be a part of a team working to further the hunt, which I currently don’t feel this thread has done, at least not to the extent the original authors are claiming they intend it to. So I ask, please help me see what I have have not yet been able to with the information given thus far.

Spiritr

yes and no, this thread is not for skeptics, at least not for me. Things were clearly laid out in the way as it was designed. there’s no “doubt” about it, no one truly understand the purpose. Yet already made countless assumptions over it, that’s how it become commonly accepted, as time goes, when believe become belief, there’s no room for discussion anymore.

Correct!!
The world is, in fact, flat!
(Silly, unknowing scientists. Sheesh.)
Thanks for enlightening us and throwing down with the naysayers.

P.s. I should have started that comment with, “Thank you for taking your time to help others by sharing your ideas and helping us seek your understanding by thinking on our own rather than simply laying it all out at once.”

Euhirudinea

I know right? And yet some people are still wondering about the commonly accepted City/Verse/Image connections. One possible explanation, as you have noted, is that they are not “reasonably intelligent”. Works for me.

Responses such as this lead myself and others to abandon entertaining that the intent of this thread is to help further the hunt. I would like to believe otherwise, but I am finding it difficult. May I ask that, if you aim to assist, that you do so by answering the questions I posed. Also, the group is clearly not ‘picking up what your putting down’. Can you illustrate the idea in a different manner?

DOOMer77: In my opinion, your first and subsequent post(s) were well thought out and presented with intelligence.
While I can’t speak for 421, it’s also my opinion that the original intent of this thread was to show newcomers, who just dive in ignoring previous work, why the commonly accepted City/Verse/Image connections exist.
It then started to head towards ‘extra’ info, with some collaboration, conjecture and debate…which is what has happened here for more than a decade.
Still, I’m with you: Hopefully, more of that occurs. If not, I’m okay with it, as it is.
*See recent posts , asking if anybody has checked Montreal, WI….either that poster is serious (because the person didn’t bother to think it through, ignoring this thread and everything posted about image 9)
or
that’s a new account created by an old poster, trolling for responses.

^+1
anything positive or near truth will be ignored
enlightenment usually turns out to be abasement

Unknown

Unknown:
May I ask that, if you aim to assist, that you do so by answering the questions I posed.

You only posed one question: “can you explain your criteria for ranking?”.
I could, but I doubt that will satisfy the group. It will just lead to arguments about the relative importance of one set of clues over another. Or more trolling. Suffice to say that just as it is harder to identify certain cities (for certain), and harder to know which Images go with which Verses (for certain), the same is true for deciding which are the easy puzzles and which are the harder ones. It may seem obvious, but after 35 years of futility, it clearly is not.
How hard would Milwaukee have been if there was in fact a big tree at the base of the ravine with a big letter “G” carved into it? How hard would St. Augustine have been if Preiss had, in fact buried the casque at the base of a tall tree in the Fountain of Youth Park? How hard would Roanoke have been if there was something, anything really that fit the description of “last touched or first seen standing” at the overlook? These certainly seem to be some of the easier puzzles, but are they really?
With all due respect Doom, we aren’t trying to satisfy the group. Or solve the puzzle for them. We are simply trying to get the group to agree that there is a logical and methodical way to solve the first two steps, and therefore there should be a logical and methodical way to solve for Step 3, and beyond. And pointing out that this will be harder for some puzzles than it is for others for reasons that even we still don’t understand.
I guarantee that some people are already working the problem. That is, some people are, in fact, “picking up what we are putting down”.

Unknown

Unknown:
Bingo wrote: Check out the slow spill thread. It might have something related to Dickens. If not now, maybe later when the time is right.

Cross posted from the “Clues in the Book” thread.
For this particular clue, the time will be right when someone resolves the clue and decides to share. But I’ll bet that the resolution (that almost all of us agree to) will tie Verse 10 to New York in some direct way. Because while the clues may be hard to find, they are not hard to understand once you find them. And by now, we all should have a pretty good idea of how the literary clues work in this puzzle.

Unknown

Unknown:
If you haven’t learned it, you’re not moving on.

Similarly, if you hold on to it past the point when it’s no longer useful, you’re not moving on either.

There are major and minor artists and authors.
Think Rossetti and Copley.

Unknown

Unknown:
Any chance that all of this research and general knowledge has produced a third (or possibly fourth) casque?

Not that I am aware of Bingo. But wouldn’t you agree than knowing where and how to look for those elusive things is better than digging random holes on hunches, hoping to get lucky?

Glossiphoniidae

There are major and minor artists and authors.
Think Rossetti and Copley.

https://imgur.com/a/WsZlLsK
Pandora portrait by Rosetti.
I don’t have a copy of the Copley fairly painting on hand but I’m familiar with that as well. The Red Cross Knight?
Next?

Euhirudinea

Not that I am aware of Bingo. But wouldn’t you agree than knowing where and how to look for those elusive things is better than digging random holes on hunches, hoping to get lucky?

I’ve dug my fair share of holes with very little to show for it. I have never put a shovel in the ground without having a reason for doing so. Either my own bad theory or one that belongs to someone else. Getting lucky has never been part of the equation for me.
I think most people would benefit from actually venturing out and testing their theories on the ground. It is much easier to do research and make endless connections than it is to dig holes.

BINGO

https://imgur.com/a/WsZlLsK
Pandora portrait by Rosetti

erexere

I really love the Pandora’s Box motif. A painting of Pandora from 1881 shows her with long red hair. This really gels for me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box

Now, that’s very good. Erexere, you were so close…just needed to scroll down a bit…!

While we are doing some deep literary diving, let’s check out this little tidbit.
In it, you will find the names Longfellow, Copley and Rosetti. It’s even edited in 3 volumes!
Will this help get us to a casque?

Saint Monica and Saint Augustine, Scheffer.

And here I was thinking “him of Hard word in 3 Vols.” was a pun for (John D.) Rockefeller Senior, Junior or 3rd.
… 🙂

Unknown

Unknown:
Need one of these?

Unlikely. There is enough pressure built up to do the job just fine. It’s just a matter of time.

More likely it’s the hero of a novel or a mention about the novel’s author. The three volume novel was the standard back in the early print days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-volume_novel

jayheedan was right, i just broke that clue via his suggestion. takes some six degrees to get to the answer but it took me like 2 mins after i clicked on that link.

if anything my previous reading is the secondary clue, with this being the primary.

Which Clues do you think BP wanted us to use… The ones we argue about or the ones nobody argues about?

one that nobody have never ever even thought about.

there are lots noone look at…the angel in st augustine…or the guy in thought (a philosopher)…or the guy holding two round objects…or the wilma looking head in NO…the fish/duck looking thing in NO…what is probably trotsky in nyc…etc

Glossiphoniidae

Indeed it is a strange-disposèd time:
But men may construe things after their fashion,
Clean from the purpose of the things themselves.

At least I know what kind of salad I am having for lunch now!

I think the point of this thread was to point people in a direction, and let them get to the end on their own. But there just wasn’t enoug information for people to create a path… if that makes sense.
I agree though. The information and conversation was good. I wish it would continue.

Hey all,
I was reading one of the older posts on this thread about the paring of the images and the verses but I am still confused if there is a proper method to doing so or is it like everything else, a best guess? How certain are we that the current order is correct?

NYCNative

Hey all,
I was reading one of the older posts on this thread about the paring of the images and the verses but I am still confused if there is a proper method to doing so or is it like everything else, a best guess? How certain are we that the current order is correct?

I believe that is/was one of the major points that this thread was trying to get across to everyone.
The OP began to share information, while not exactly new or unknown, but was being interpreted and shared in a very new way.
Personally, I was put off by this thread in its early stages, but I have become very interested in how it all weaves together.
Hopefully, the author(s) can bring this thing to the finish line.

maltedfalcon

I think (and these are merely my speculations, based on where I think things are and how many people are working there.)
San Francisco – intact- will be found within the year
New York – intact will be found within the year
Houston, possibly intact (30% chance) Location will either be confirmed, through parts or is totally unrecoverable.
Milwaukee- intact, will be found within the year
Boston – no idea
Roanoke – no idea
St Augustine – small chance it will be located within the year
Charleston – pretty good chance it is still intact.
Montreal – no idea
New Orleans -Not intact. – More research needs to be done.

LOL, you serious???

Meanwhile:
The most important thread in the last 10 years is being ignored because…?

Euhirudinea

Meanwhile:
The most important thread in the last 10 years is being ignored because…?

How about giving us the fast burn option where we can look at the theory in its entirety, since I hope most here are educated adults, so we can decide if this thread has any merit or if it just non sequiter walkthrough.

Unknown

Unknown:
How about giving us the fast burn option where we can look at the theory in its entirety,

IOW, just tell me the answer and I’ll tell you if you are correct…
As someone who seems to be still in doubt that the Verse/Image/City pairs that most reasonable people are using are correct Jay, I would think you would welcome the chance to explore how the initial steps work on your own, using the clues 421 chooses to divulge. It is a puzzle after all. I’m sure that is what other people are doing with the information, even if they choose not to share what they are finding here. No one has called BS yet, which should indicate something.
But that’s just my opinion. It’s 421 who said that he would answer the questions.

And yet I have asked questions, 421 hasn’t answered…
I do appreciate other interpretations and theories, I have even expressed a wanting to believe in this theory.
I do not like vagueness and being mislead, if the intent is to do so on purpose. The vibe of this thread is that it isn’t a work in progress theory where 421 is asking for feedback or additional research, but as a complete fully polished theory that has led 421 and/or group to a casque(s) site. But we can only have in pieces or maybe I’m wrong? Idk cause the posts are to vague and what is posted seems to have nothing to do with anything. Even as they relate to each other. Makes fact checking and confirmation difficult.
Just asking for some clarity.

Unknown

Unknown:
And yet I have asked questions, 421 hasn’t answered…

Did you consider that he might be waiting for others to chime in and get the discussion going? You are not being mislead Jay. And if you don’t like the “vibe” that’s on you, not 421. It’s on all of you.
Full disclosure: I know for a fact that others have some of the information that 421 is posting, because I gave it to them myself. Some of them even still post in this forum under a recognizable handle, although not all. If the purpose of this forum, and those involved with the hunt in general is to truly move things along, this is the perfect opportunity to reclaim that lofty goal. Otherwise, it’s just talk.

Euhirudinea

If the purpose of this forum, and those involved with the hunt in general is to truly move things along, this is the perfect opportunity to reclaim that lofty goal. Otherwise, it’s just talk.

it seemed more from the original title of this thread that rather than move things along, this thread was to **** John, has that goal changed? That didnt seem very “lofty”

Spiritr

I have no idea what those lines are
regardless whatever it is, Josh got you down cold on this one, hahahah

Translating this and every single post you’ve made so far;
“Hurrrrr. Derp!”

Fairy secrets come in twos.
Here is a sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!
Edwin and Edwina named after him.
Lat
Long

Congratulations. The first person to read this will be this thread’s 3,000th view. As I said when we hit 2K, that’s a lot of views for this little community. Maybe someone is obsessing over it.

jayheedan1

If we are to use paintings to identify a city what is the use of the lat and long coordinates in each image?

Kalessin

I think there are different sets of city confirmers used in each image — not every image will have the same set.

Kalessin

You can find the co-ordinates (except for Milwaukee), or spot an iconic piece of architecture (except for New Orleans and perhaps Houston and Boston), or spot a map image of a state (FL, Ohio).

This is a fundamental question, and one of the best. The coordinates are used are to help you figure out the city. Like other clues, once you notice them, they seem to appear in every image (except milwaukee). The problem is, like other clues (think buildings), the numbers get tentative pretty quickly. Soon, we don’t really know how to interpret them… are they even numbers? You start ending up in St. Louis. vancouver. Then, you get to image 10 with no coordinates at all.
What do you do when you aren’t sure anymore?
Do you think BP wanted us to just start digging random holes?
What if you only thought you were following the coordinates, but they could drift away and you wouldn’t be lost as long as you had figured out what you were
really
following?
This is surely not to say that the coordinates are not helpful, just that that are not able to be used in a deterministic manner until you know what you are looking for.
For example, once you knew you were looking for port cities, a shit ton of possible coordinate combinations were eliminated for the vague coordinates. When chicago and then cleveland was solved, people might logically start looking in cities that start with the letter C. What if charleston then popped? Would they be right? What if everyone gave up on finding any other way to solve the puzzle, calling it E territory when someone said, “Hey guys, maybe we shouldn’t just be looking for C cities. Maybe we are doing something in a way we think we are supposed to, but the real reason we are going there is more hidden? Maybe we aren’t supposed to be going A to B to C to Dig.” Could the more apparent clues drift away and you still know what you are doing? Could BP and JPP start to betray you with their words and images, or make them so arguable in interpretation and connection, and still expect you to find the casque?
Think cleveland, then think montreal. Has not everything meaningful disappeared by that point? What if BP no longer had to tell you where to dig, and JJP no longer had to show you? Would BP tell you if you had gotten
all
the clues on puzzle #1 or #2 that was solvable? We
know
he wouldn’t. In fact, he lied to Brian.
Back to a point about the coordinates… once you know you are supposed to not just be using them, but going to port cities, you job is much less. This is the same with the images and verses, once you know what you are looking for in each of them, pairing them is easy. However, as seen, the coordinates are not deterministic… Something else allowed you to be sure, and BP never told you what it was.
Just because there is a NA column in Houston or a Preservation in NO, do these clues confirm you are in the right city? What does?
If something needs to be confirmed, it is not fact. A confirmer then is only additional evidence. One thing does not confirm the other, they are both just pieces of evidence. There is plenty of evidence in many pictures, and in many verses. Building a preponderance of evidence, i think, is what people mean when they say “confirmer.” Evidence is useless when you need to dig a precise 8-inch hole in North America.
What you are seeing is multiple types of clues that initially can be used, but eventually disappear, and you are unable to continue with any certainty. Pieces of the images and verses become so vague, they become meaningless, so much so that you can be in one city or another and the clues still make sense.
Fairy secrets come in twos.
One of the clues renovator shared with [NO NAME], and that [NO NAME] may have talked about on Renner’s podcast, was a theory about the moons. See the first image with it’s 11 moons – 5 on each side of one big one. The five on each side can be paired in progressively smaller pairs, and there is one unpaired BIG one in the middle.
The BIG one = it can be done, it is what it is.
The progressively smaller pairs = things are disappearing, becoming less whole.
The 12th is nowhere to be found.
Think of the jewels.
circles… from precise to blob… a half circle.
squares… from perfect to blob… a diamond.
Think of the count.
clocks… progressively less clear the time.
spheres… progressively less a sphere.
Think of the flowers.
Stems…
No stems…
Think of the images.
Men…
Women…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JHH6iwgIek

WhiteRabbit

Wait, what…?
So, there’s that St Augustine picture; if it’s being suggested that it’s a match, or a clue, then I don’t buy it. There’s a slight resemblance of pose, but I could find a similar match for anyone from Greta Garbo to Mickey Mouse.
Was there something else?

It’s a backdrop for the rest of image, manipulated with things imposed onto it.
The city on the shoulders was a backdrop, things imposed onto it.
The virgin of the rocks was a back drop, with things imposed onto it.
The forest city is a backdrop, things imposed onto it.
Persepolis is a backdrop, things imposed onto it.
Pandora is a backdrop, things imposed onto it.
Monica is the backdrop, with things imposed onto it.
When you see the backdrop, it is what is is.
Finding the backdrop is made manageable once you know what you are looking for.

Euhirudinea

Congratulations. The first person to read this will be this thread’s 3,000th view. As I said when we hit 2K, that’s a lot of views for this little community. Maybe someone is obsessing over it.

I think it’s more that this conversation progresses rather than people treating each other like crap, so thanks for that.
I think Yoda Forum would be a great band name.

JoshCornell

image ten does have coordinates though, they are in the ground. the 44 is extremely visible to the left of JJP’s initials…

I see a cross in a box there, not “44”….

Fenix

This is so true.

man, if you have ALL the clues (beyond the treasure hunt…you are a God King…lol)

image ten does have coordinates though, they are in the ground. the 44 is extremely visible to the left of JJP’s initials…

i can tell you with absolute certainty that preiss wanted us to map the puzzles out before making any attempts to dig.

JoshCornell

image ten does have coordinates though, they are in the ground. the 44 is extremely visible to the left of JJP’s initials…

I might argue that you can see anything you want to in the brown lines that make up the ground. Remember that BP published the images in a trade paperback size, but in 2018 we’re able to use high-res scans (technology that was in its expensive infancy in 1982) and zoom in at will. When published, as editor and designer, he must have felt that the images as they appeared were sufficient to find the treasures. (If he didn’t feel that way, he probably would have published a larger-sized folio of the artworks for an additional eight bucks, available by mail-order.)

*smacks head*
a cross in a square makes a 44 you know, so you are seeing the correct thing, you just arent looking at it right lol.

or…you’re missing something…

Euhirudinea

Congratulations. The first person to read this will be this thread’s 3,000th view. As I said when we hit 2K, that’s a lot of views for this little community. Maybe someone is obsessing over it.

or someone just turned on a bot to notify them when the thread changes.

JoshCornell

*smacks head*
a cross in a square makes a 44 you know, so you are seeing the correct thing, you just arent looking at it right lol.

I have no idea what those lines are
regardless whatever it is, Josh got you down cold on this one, hahahah

Unknown

Unknown:
or someone just turned on a bot to notify them when the thread changes.

Wouldn’t that be the very definition of “obsessive’?

JoshCornell

*smacks head*
a cross in a square makes a 44 you know, so you are seeing the correct thing, you just arent looking at it right lol.

No, it doesn’t.
And, yes I am.
Nyah, nyah, nyah.
Am I now in…..’peril’…?

BINGO

I think the coast may be clear. Let’s fire this thread back up.

+1

Unknown

Unknown:
To ask Josh to put his whole theory

Unknown

Unknown:
The difference being , I have seen, not I have made…

Not his whole theory Matt, just what he considers “the most important clue(s)” of the whole puzzle. The Word document was just a suggestion because as you know, when it comes to Josh, “spill” is the operative word, not “slow”. He declined, so any further discussion on this tangent is moot.
Without evidence, it’s a distinction without a difference. Unless you are willing to back up your statement with some facts, it is just an opinion, same as Josh’s.

Unknown

Unknown:
has that goal changed

You tell me Matt. Or were you unable to get past the title of the thread?

Unknown

Unknown:
I’d like to think all the threads are working towards moving it along.

Unknown

Unknown:
It didn’t seem to be aiming for “moving things along” as much as trying to cause problems.

Unknown

Unknown:
But I have no desire to hijack this thread so please carry on.

I’d like to think that too. Unfortunately, I know better, and so do you.
You are confusing the problems of a few people with problems in the general sense. To that end, the information being presented will not cause problems as you imply. It will solve them.
I’m done as well. Thank you for confirming what I have known to be true for the last six months. Carry on.

I’d like to think all the threads are working towards moving it along.
which is why I was taken aback by the original title and purpose of this thread. It didn’t seem to be aiming for “moving things along” as much as trying to cause problems.
But I have no desire to hijack this thread so please carry on.

Euhirudinea

I’d like to think that too. Unfortunately, I know better, and so do you.
You are confusing the problems of a few people with problems in the general sense. To that end, the information being presented will not cause problems as you imply. It will solve them.
I’m done as well. Thank you for confirming what I have known to be true for the last six months. Carry on.

actually I have seen huge progress on several casques in the last few months.
I am not confusing anything, I don’t imply the information will cause problems, I always welcome new information
I suggested since the title of the thread was **** John, that I didn’t think it was a good goal for a thread. I considered that a problem in the specific sense
But since the thread title has been changed I am totally ok with it.

ive made more progress in the last 3 days (full puzzles not necessarily directly pertaining to the treasure hunt) than probably everyone else (minus travis) collectively since this was released lol. including 1 of 3 of the most important clues in the book (arguably the most important clue)…which ironically you have to figure out first to find lol.

Unknown

Unknown:
maltedfalcon wrote: I have seen huge progress on several casques in the last few months

Unknown

Unknown:
Josh Cornell wrote: ive made more progress in the last 3 days (full puzzles not necessarily directly pertaining to the treasure hunt) than probably everyone else (minus travis) collectively

Gotta love the irony. For reals.

If we could get back to the topic of poems and paintings, that would be great!
421 or Ren, how was a poem selected to sync with a painting/verse/etc. in your opinion?

Unknown

Unknown:
how was a poem selected

Unknown

Unknown:
You cannot tie a verse to an image with any certainty, rather you must tie each to a city. They can only then be paired.

Just to be clear Karleen, 421 said he would answer the questions, so I will defer to him in this thread. I’m providing color commentary, if you will. But if you read back, you will see that he said:
So those are the connections you should be looking for. I will allow that NY is one of the hardest puzzles, at least with regard to these first few steps. As you know. But it becomes easier through process of elimination.
(12-X)^2

Unknown

Unknown:
including 1 of 3 of the most important clues in the book (arguably the most important clue)

So, make the argument Josh. That’s what this thread is for. And since I am in the asking mode, if you could type it all out in a Word document before you post it, as opposed to piecemeal, it would make it a lot easier for all of us to follow your train of thought.
Thanks in advance.

thats not necessarily true…you could identify the palm tree formed by the shadow of the faeries palm in charleston painting.
so thats out.

prove to me you know whats going on and ill share with you

Euhirudinea

Just to be clear Karleen, 421 said he would answer the questions, so I will defer to him in this thread. I’m providing color commentary, if you will. But if you read back, you will see that he said:
So those are the connections you should be looking for. I will allow that NY is one of the hardest puzzles, at least with regard to these first few steps. As you know. But it becomes easier through process of elimination.
(12-X)^2

Then, it appears, I’m confused. I was intrigued by the famous paintings referenced–and I recall that it had been discussed previously(ie – the remington)–and, an artist myself, I had difficulty pairing any artist with image 12(unless seurat, with the pointillism). If we are discussing the validity of the image to verse pairings only, please disregard my ignorance.
km

im not telling you for a reason, mainly cause there is a plethora of trolls here who i have zero respect for. i get that people dont want me and travis to be right cause weve only been in the game since jan for me (later for trav)…im not obligated to hand you guys the keys. but if you show me that you get it…ill reveal all to you
or if you give me a place to sleep in san fran…ill tell you all you want to know lol.

Unknown

Unknown:
If we are discussing the validity of the image to verse pairings only…

If you are trying to solve this puzzle, it helps to KNOW that you are using the correct Image/Verse/City pairings. That is what is being discussed as a necessary first step. And to put an end, once and for all (for all but the most stubborn, unreasonable, or disingenuous among us) the nonsense that all ideas are good ideas until a casque is found. Some may find this trivial, but to them I would say that the steps being discussed here are the same steps used throughout the puzzle. So understanding and applying these principles to whatever step you happen to be on would be a good idea, IMO.
In your case Karleen, you are on record as saying that you are sure that the NY casque is in Prospect Park (Step 3). I would ask you to consider how you KNOW that, and whether those reasons can be applied to at least 5 other puzzles, without ambiguity.

Unknown

Unknown:
but if you show me that you get it…ill reveal all to you

I don’t get it Josh, specifically what you think is (are) the most important clue(s) of the puzzle. That’s why I asked. But if you don’t want to share, that’s fine. As you said, you are under no obligation. Carry on.

Euhirudinea

If you are trying to solve this puzzle, it helps to KNOW that you are using the correct Image/Verse/City pairings. That is what is being discussed as a necessary first step. And to put an end, once and for all (for all but the most stubborn, unreasonable, or disingenuous among us) the nonsense that all ideas are good ideas until a casque is found. Some may find this trivial, but to them I would say that the steps being discussed here are the same steps used throughout the puzzle. So understanding and applying these principles to whatever step you happen to be on would be a good idea, IMO.
In your case Karleen, you are on record as saying that you are sure that the NY casque is in Prospect Park (Step 3). I would ask you to consider how you KNOW that, and whether those reasons can be applied to at least 5 other puzzles, without ambiguity.

Thank you. To clarify, I did say Prospect Park or the periphery.
Enjoy your evening.

Euhirudinea

So, make the argument Josh. That’s what this thread is for. And since I am in the asking mode, if you could type it all out in a Word document before you post it, as opposed to piecemeal, it would make it a lot easier for all of us to follow your train of thought.
Thanks in advance.

Speaking of ironic , This thread by definition of the title is specifically all about the slow spill, To ask Josh to put his whole theory in a word doc before posting “as opposed to piecemeal” is a good idea, but are you asking 421 to do the same or are you just singling out Josh?

Euhirudinea

Gotta love the irony. For reals.

The difference being , I have seen, not I have made… probably threw you with that subtlety.

jayheedan1

Did I misunderstand that each picture was based off a painting? Or can it be any anything will work?

Florida is based off a drawing

What if we were not supposed to go so far down the rabbit hole? Maybe we should be “under thinking it”?
Regards,
Mac

Glossiphoniidae

Fairy secrets come in twos.
Lat
Long

In a rectangular plot…

Seems to be a bit cherry picking going on. That line in verse four was for the rectangular planter box seen in image four at the Greek gardens where the casque was actually buried in. Seems like your implying that the coordinate bounding box was only for Chicago and Cleveland. Or that maybe these “two” have some sort of relation. Almost every image has a lat/long bounding box, care to elaborate?

BINGO

IRAN

This isn’t even a painting or drawing. I searched for a painting with desert columns, columns, iran, araby etc. couldn’t come up with anything. Did I misunderstand that each picture was based off a painting? Or can it be any anything will work?

jayheedan1

Seems to be a bit cherry picking going on.

Unknown

Unknown:
That line in verse four was for the rectangular planter box seen in image four at the Greek gardens where the casque was actually buried in.

Unknown

Unknown:
Seems like your implying that the coordinate bounding box was only for Chicago and Cleveland.

Unknown

Unknown:
Or that maybe these “two” have some sort of relation.

Unknown

Unknown:
Almost every image has a lat/long bounding box, care to elaborate?

I just posted a picture.
You are correct.
I only showed you chicago and cleveland.
No, they CLEARLY have “some sort of” relation.
No need… you just elaborated yourself.

jayheedan1

Hall of 100 columns.
IRAN
img
This isn’t even a painting or drawing. I searched for a painting with desert columns, columns, iran, araby etc. couldn’t come up with anything.

Unknown

Unknown:
Did I misunderstand that each picture was based off a painting? Or can it be any anything will work?

You mean
Persepolis
? Are you implying that the location isn’t the basis for the background of the image?
You sort of misunderstood. The basis of the image is evident once discovered, and it becomes very important. Is it important in cleveland and chicago, no. Does it become more necessary?

WhiteRabbit

OK, I can imagine a Universe in which someone looks at that figure on horseback and thinks, “Hang on, that looks familiar – oh yeah, it’s that picture by Remington, what’s it called –
Spanish Conquistador
…now, they appear in promotional material for St Augustine; I guess that’s where the casque is.”
This isn’t a dig at you MF; just trying to understand the theory behind this thread.

Share the clues.
Goodness first.

jayheedan1

This isn’t even a painting or drawing. I searched for a painting with desert columns, columns, iran, araby etc. couldn’t come up with anything. Did I misunderstand that each picture was based off a painting? Or can it be any anything will work?

You can’t search with just keywords, what if the name of the painting is not in english? or what if the original painting doesn’t have these columns or desert but JJP replicated it to this theme.
But you are def looking at the right direction, Arts, I’m with you on this one.

Search engines translate into English or whatever language the searcher is using. Again I thought keywords were the whole point, ie nickname of each city, painting of St Augustine and his mother etc…

jayheedan1

Search engines translate into English or whatever language the searcher is using. Again I thought keywords were the whole point, ie nickname of each city, painting of St Augustine and his mother etc…

what keyword would you use for that Selfie with Beret & Turned-Up Collar?

Spiritr

what keyword would you use for that Selfie with Beret & Turned-Up Collar?

Hahahaha and here I thought you were being serious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Po … -Up_Collar

huh? of course I know what that one is, but I’m saying if you don’t know, what keyword would you use based on image9, like…man crossing fingers? man with big nose?

I googled the string: Dutch portrait man hat painting” and it came up

really…..then maybe my google is different, because i don’t see it, but anyway, you get the idea, which I think is correct

Here are the I/V pairings:
I—V
1–7
2–6
3–11
4–4
5–12
6–9
7–2
8–1
9–5
10–8
11–3
12–10
It will become apparent that they cannot be any other.

The intent of the puzzle was not to get us to follow clues (i.e., from A to B to C to D) to a treasure site, but to determine which clues we should be looking for. We were taken to A and B and C and D for a reason, but not to dig. Ever wonder why you always end up on an “overlook” when trying to follow a path? Ask yourself the question when you get there… “What am I overlooking?”

Glossiphoniidae

Here are the I/V pairings:

You cannot tie a verse to an image with any certainty, rather you must tie each to a city. They can only then be paired.

Glossiphoniidae

1. These prove a constant, clues are predictable. If you think you have correctly interpreted the count or clock in an image, there is another clue to confirm you are correct (and you can accurately predict what it is). Likewise, if you can identify the jewel, you can accurately predict a count or a clock in the image.
2. These are found in many of JJP’s paintings outside of the book, and they mean nothing to this book (e.g.,
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/61/80/8e6180009c20a103fb2cf6a67136421f.jpg
).
3. The type of character does not give a clue, but the fairy is always a clue. A predictable one at that.
*edit: I take this back. the type of character is a clue, too. a confirmation clue, and a predictable one.

At a distance in space, at a distance in time
Count on the spheres/circles, count on the clock the clock
Fairy secrets come in twos. This and that. Women and men. Entrance and exit.

Glossiphoniidae

Ask yourself the question when you get there… “What am I overlooking?”

from stone to stone to stone to stone
from person to person to person to person
from sign to sign to sign to sign
from gate to gate to gate to gate
from column to column to column to column
from direction to direction to direction to direction
from building to building to building to building
…

You don’t need any of this to start out, but it’s there. Cleveland was proof of concept. The poet (pindar) and the artist (apelles) come together in one place – the wall, shown in the image. You weren’t supposed to figure that out at the time, though. You were just supposed to eventually be able to dig it up.
Moving to Chicago, you needed to start to evaluate what was important in the previous puzzle. Was it columns, statues, roads, walls, people, words? The puzzle seems to work in much the same manner as Cleveland (i.e., follow the description of things), but we know that Chicago is just a bit different. In Chicago, the intent was never to get a person to actually dig up the casque here. It was to make it as nearly easy to get to the spot as in Cleveland, but slightly more difficult by moving the usage of the clues a bit to the more abstract.
Chicago’s image was a city on broad shoulders, a windy city
Chicago’s poem was Sandburg – Chicago Poems, Windy City, City of the Broad Shoulders
They come together at Sandburg’s A fence… shown in the image.
Get THERE, and BP gave it up.

Progressively, the puzzles get more difficult. The verbatim clues disappear – both image and verse – and very quickly. You start believing you are still being told where to go, in detail, but it’s because you are following the wrong clues. Eventually though, if you know what you are looking for, you need no direction at all, and the verse and image can lead you in completely the wrong direction.

When you do know what you are looking for, clues and their placement become predictable. You have to be playful, though.
Pandora
Longfellow
Rosetti
Red Cross
The poet and the painters come together at the compass rose.
Do you see it?

Glossiphoniidae

When you do know what you are looking for, clues and their placement become predictable. You have to be playful, though.
The poet and the painters come together at the compass rose.

North of this
Take steps in this area
In the area of direction
In the middle
Pass that
Face this
Put your back to that
Feel at this
Directions… look for directions. Where are there directions?

Do you wonder why more and more and more parks in each city become plausible?
Do you wonder why more and more and more spots in each park become plausible?
Why this park over that? Why this spot over that?
Sure that looks like a circle from the image, sure that looks like a square from the image.
Sure that verse seems to describe this, sure that verse seems to describe that.
Who am I to argue about interpretation?
As the puzzles get harder, the manner of determining where to go becomes more and more necessary and less and less evident.
You may think you got the Greek gardens by using the obvious clues, and you did. Same with Chicago, somewhat.
But BP obscured the way he wanted you to get there. You have to start figuring this out as the obvious clues drift away.

Glossiphoniidae

North of this
Take steps in this area
In the area of direction
In the middle
Pass that
Face this
Put your back to that
Feel at this
Directions… look for directions. Where are there directions?

I will call a bit of BS here. You are clearly speaking about Boston and I simply don’t buy the vagueness of your statements. You, me and anyone with an imagination can connect the verse/poem with just about any location if we try hard enough. I’ve read through dozens of your posts before you edit/scrubbed them and you are just as guilty as anyone of doing this. (For more than one site in Boston alone.)
Where does the painter give you anything compass rose related? JJP is a fantastic artist, when looking at his work there is no need for visual interpretation. His image “confirmers” are beyond question. Pray tell, what has the artist given you to land at the Compass Rose?

Spiritr

reading through dozens of his posts was one thing, understanding what he wrote in his post was another…

I would love to understand. This is exactly why I posed the question. Everything he has said is wonderful, lovely and a great way to think about the puzzles. I am simply asking him to back up his statements with proof or at least new information. The exact thing he would have required before his previous temper tantrum.
Never mind though, I suppose I would need a press pass like yours to figure it out.

BINGO

I will call a bit of BS here. You are clearly speaking about Boston and I simply don’t buy the vagueness of your statements. You, me and anyone with an imagination can connect the verse/poem with just about any location if we try hard enough. I’ve read through dozens of your posts before you edit/scrubbed them and you are just as guilty as anyone of doing this. (For more than one site in Boston alone.)

BINGO

Where does the painter give you anything compass rose related? Pray tell, what has the artist given you to land at the Compass Rose?

BINGO

JJP is a fantastic artist, when looking at his work there is no need for visual interpretation. His image “confirmers” are beyond question.

Not really sure how to respond to this. Sure, I removed a bunch of posts… it had to do with Renner, not whether I perceived the connections to be correct or incorrect. And yes, lots of it was me trying to connect a verse/image with about any location, same as the rest of the board. How is that working out for everyone? I’ve been here about a decade, and others twice that. How many times does it take to try and fit a round peg in a square hole before you realize it ain’t productive.
These posts are not meant to be vague, but divulging all at once is impossible. And, understanding all at once is just as unwieldy. A decade of searching can’t be explained in a few posts. Your assumption is there’s a simple answer. It’s not that simple as you’ve seen.
Rosetti
Red Cross
The compass rose behind Pandora
It’s not just about identifying what the artist gives you… bowman, lady of lakes, horses, columns, lions, jewels, walls, numbers, flowers, fairies, etc… it’s what he gives you that is productive for finding the site. The same goes for the verses.
Who decides what the image confirmers are?
Is the war memorial woman an image confirmer? Could it be another statue?
Is the building in the box BU Castle? Could it be another building?
Is Ponce one? You sure that’s ponce?
Are the greek columns one? You sure they are the ones at the head of the garden?
Who decides which image confirmers are important?
Why was it not buried by the cup in the Italian gardens?
Why was it not buried by the Great Lakes or Bowman statues?

Glossiphoniidae

Who decides what the image confirmers are?
Is the war memorial woman an image confirmer? Could it be another statue?
Is the building in the box BU Castle? Could it be another building?
Is Ponce one? You sure that’s ponce?
Are the greek columns one? You sure they are the ones at the head of the garden?
Who decides which image confirmers are important?
Why was it not buried by the cup in the Italian gardens?
Why was it not buried by the Great Lakes or Bowman statues?

Honestly, I’ve been all over Boston everyday for the last 5 years and I don’t buy a single image match that people have come up with and hold as gospel. Columbus statue, war memorial, 2c structure, electrical box/ pipe on the bridge, Leif Ericsson statue are all a joke in comparison to the Chicago fence, the Bowman, the Cleveland wall, all of the other known and undisputed image “confirmers”.
To me, anything less than that is a case of visual interpretation. I’m not saying that you are wrong, I’m simply asking for the evidence.

BINGO

I would love to understand. This is exactly why I posed the question. Everything he has said is wonderful, lovely and a great way to think about the puzzles. I am simply asking him to back up his statements with proof or at least new information.

BINGO

Honestly, I’ve been all over Boston everyday for the last 5 years and I don’t buy a single image match that people have come up with and hold as gospel. Columbus statue, war memorial, 2c structure, electrical box/ pipe on the bridge, Leif Ericsson statue are all a joke in comparison to the Chicago fence, the Bowman, the Cleveland wall, all of the other known and undisputed image “confirmers”. To me, anything less than that is a case of visual interpretation.

With all respect, your frustration is not with the lack of information being presented, it’s with the lack of understanding, as you stated. I do aim to give you the ability to put it together, but I must first present it.
That being said, you can lead a horse to water…
Good, than you can see already that the image confirmers disappear, much like anything truly meaningful in the verses. What would make you think that you need these to solve a puzzle, then? Many have looked for 20+ years… just one more to find the
right
one, right?

very probable nola still there charleston gone, roanoke gone, montreal is there, i dont see why it wouldnt be. houston is there but its gonna be hard to locate for sure.

WhiteRabbit

Here ya go…St Augustine and St Monica of Hippo ->
Hippodrome de Montréal
. (
Google maps
).
(*edit* Oh, not called that until 1995. Probably not then. i give up.)

dont feel bad at all…that is very much a spot in the puzzle.
youd get there via either george stephen or the statue in dorchester square.

dont stop there btw the goods are deeper

Glossiphoniidae

They don’t. They find Cleveland and Chicago’s Polaroids and easy clues with literal path/descriptions. They don’t connect the painting until they start to realize what to look for, and have lost the ability to do anything with certainty. You clearly wouldn’t be doing that with a fresh copy of the book in 1982.

shecrab

…confirmed by old emails, where Preiss said he thought the casques and locations would all be found in very short order.
…

One hand says, Preiss claimed that the puzzles easy and were expected to been solved quickly (probably why I read Priess was planning a follow up book and/or solutions book)
The other hand claims, as the puzzles became harder they are supposed to change format forcing outside the box thinking, using obscure paintings and not well known poems, all this without the internet. An individual would have to have access to a well stocked library to find such clues.
How does St Austine and his mother painting even resemble image 9?
Or did I miss something from step 1 to step 1A?

jayheedan1

What was the connection on the last one?

All of the lines are quotes and titles of works from Gilbert Parker. All have strong Canadian ties. All are similar, if not direct, lines from verse 5.
The painting is of Saint Augustine and his mother Saint Mónica by Ary Scheffer.
Other than a connection to St Augustine Fl., that connection misses me.

the puzzles are not easy if you need to use a library, however, once you pick up on the model, they arent that hard…only with all the changes and new shit and what not make it confusing. these puzzles are long as hell…but you dont need to do everything (obviously) to find the treasure. its more a matter of putting in the time and doing the work…takes up your life lol

if you DO do everything though, its all very clear.

Unknown

Unknown:
Other than a connection to St Augustine Fl.

What else are you looking for? The puzzle has at least 5 steps, and this is Step #1A. Don’t over-think it.
(12-X)^2

The lane that has no turning.
It must be remembered that the sea is a great breeder of friendship.
Northern lights.
The Citadel, a night wind-swept and bound about with glee.
One more flight of a wingless bird.

Euhirudinea

What else are you looking for? The puzzle has at least 5 steps, and this is Step #1A. Don’t over-think it.
(12-X)^2

I admit that I am probably under thinking it.
All that I am saying is that I don’t see the connection from that particular painting to The Secret. I am doing my best to forget everything that I’ve learned from forums and the internet over the last 5 years in order to follow along with this thread. Flushed the accepted pairings, flushed the known solves, flushed all of Josh’s posts. Clean slate.
How does someone with a crisp copy of The Secret in 1982 connect that painting to the hunt?
Honest question.

Glossiphoniidae

The lane that has no turning.
It must be remembered that the sea is a great breeder of friendship.
Northern lights.
The Citadel, a night wind-swept and bound about with glee.
One more flight of a wingless bird.

Gilbert Parker
Ary Scheffer -full disclosure, I’m not making a connection with this one.

BINGO

How does someone with a crisp copy of The Secret in 1982 connect that painting to the hunt?
Honest question.

They don’t. They find Cleveland and Chicago’s Polaroids and easy clues with literal path/descriptions. They don’t connect the painting until they start to realize what to look for, and have lost the ability to do anything with certainty. You clearly wouldn’t be doing that with a fresh copy of the book in 1982.

or the absence of internet lol

Unknown

Unknown:
or the absence of internet

The internet has certainly made research easier in many ways, but people were able to do research just fine with the tools they had at their disposal back in the day. Hard as that is for some to believe.

Euhirudinea

The internet has certainly made research easier in many ways, but people were able to do research just fine with the tools they had at their disposal back in the day. Hard as that is for some to believe.

i see zero evidence of this claim, other than perhaps its attributable to preiss.

Unknown

Unknown:
i see zero evidence of this claim

Zero? Didn’t your high school have a library?

sure, but how many people you know are adept at doing library research. especially as deep as you must go in these puzzles…thats a lifetime of work right there lol.

after making my own puzzle for niagara, i realized that solving them is worlds more lengthy than actually making them…as they tend to lay themselves out as long as you can fashion good clues.