took me about 2 weeks to design a good puzzle, i just need an artist to collab with. i know many artists (as im a musician) but not sure any have the qualifications im looking for. theres an artist in st augustine (a tattoo artist) that would be absolutely ideal imo.
if i were the podcast peeps, id employ her to make the painting

you can see her art in the coffee shop by the macdonalds.

JoshCornell

took me about 2 weeks to design a good puzzle, i just need an artist to collab with. i know many artists (as im a musician) but not sure any have the qualifications im looking for. theres an artist in st augustine (a tattoo artist) that would be absolutely ideal imo.
if i were the podcast peeps, id employ her to make the painting

Sounds like a plan. You could get a backup on your butt for safekeeping.

or YOU could…

What was the connection on the last one?

Glossiphoniidae

They don’t connect the painting until they start to realize what to look for,
and have lost the ability to do anything with certainty.

Sums up my current mental state. You have my undivided attention.

Unknown

Unknown:
Sums up my current mental state.

Don’t worry, you are in good company. Pretty much everyone (and I do mean everyone) has reached these roadblocks at one time or another, and most of them quit in frustration. The problem is that most of the roadblocks are of their own making, and they don’t even realize it. Which is not to say the puzzle isn’t full of them; it most assuredly is. The difference is that if they are part of the Preiss’ design, then he also gave you a way to get around them. Or so I choose to believe.

yea, the verse lol.

Unknown

Unknown:
yea, the verse

Ironically, the verses are also the biggest roadblock. That’s Preiss.

Here ya go…St Augustine and St Monica of Hippo ->
Hippodrome de Montréal
. (
Google maps
).
(*edit* Oh, not called that until 1995. Probably not then. I give up.)

Unknown

Unknown:
St Augustine and St Monica of Hippo –

Seems like a tenuous connection to me WR. If this really is Step #1, then I suspect we are looking for more basic connections, even if they are hard to find. Like Abroad in America, for example. Hard to find perhaps, but not hard to understand. At all.

Euhirudinea

Seems like a tenuous connection to me WR. If this really is Step #1, then I suspect we are looking for more basic connections, even if they are hard to find. Like Abroad in America, for example. Hard to find perhaps, but not hard to understand. At all.

Yeah but…we actually have no idea if/how/when this painting actually relates to anything remember…
It’s just a very abstract game without any rules.

Unknown

Unknown:
It’s just a very abstract game without any rules.

You’ve just described most people’s understanding of the puzzle. Have some faith.

JoshCornell

theres an artist in st augustine (a tattoo artist) that would be absolutely ideal imo.
if i were the podcast peeps, id employ her to make the painting

Wow, just wow.
They track down a casque from the original sculptor. Then they work with the original artist’s son to create the painting and you think they should use a tattoo artist in Florida? Who should they have write the verse, one of the musicians (barkers) that you play your guitar next to in the subway? Please, go play Pat-a-cake with a maple tree somewhere.

This came out privatly a few months back (I have no doubt the theory originated with 421).
I tried to form some connection with Keats, Remington, and st augustine… but I couldn’t.
I had better luck with oscar wilde who wrote “the grave of Keats”
Was that your though as well?

BINGO

Wow, just wow.

Now now. This is the post-#JoshToo generation.

parker wrote about the plains of abraham in the seats of the mighty.
i dont recall if i saw a scheffer painting, but you are taken to the museum of fine arts to see the dutch golden age painting exhibit, where you learn it was the dutch golden age artists who influenced the golden age of painting in montreal after which you are taken through the beaver hall exhibit.
tbh scheffer relates much more to the nola puzzle via his fate being tied to the orleans monarchy, and having painted a famous portrait of lafayette.

you can also get a hint about the reading of the of him in hard words in 3 vols clue for nyc from parker via mrs falchion (itself released as a 3 vol novel).

Unknown

Unknown:
I have no doubt the theory originated with 421

This^.

Euhirudinea

This^.

Well… it’s true. It’s a good comprehensive theory, and he deserves credit.
Someone messaged me on Facebook awhile back taking about the remington painting, and a the Rembrandt (which was common knowledge) they told me the every painting was inspired by another painting, and every verse was inspired by a poem… but they couldn’t expand on that. It was obvious that it wasnt their idea.

Unknown

Unknown:
Let the argument begin…

Thank you Bingo. But that’s what happens when you are beholden to a theory that basically falls apart after the first two puzzles.

Glossiphoniidae

Now that you have come to conclusion on if… WHY the cover up?

IMHO, because it made locating the image in Montreal just a bit too easy, a golden square (mile) with a fleur-de-lis in it. Habitat 67 is quite a bit more obscure, and also reinforces the Expo ’67 theme.
If the left-hand flower in Image 7 is also a fleur-de-lis, then it might make sense to not have two images with such.
Which is one reason why I think that Milwaukee was supposed to be the easiest location to find. That rebus isn’t obscured in the least.

Merlot Brougham

I know it’s got to be something more sinister than a reconsideration before going to final print that they felt a fleur-de-lis might be a little too obvious to use as clue for the Montreal cask.

Is there a reason it couldn’t be just that?

Kalessin

Which is one reason why I think that Milwaukee was supposed to be the easiest location to find. That rebus isn’t obscured in the least.

Kalessin

Milwaukee was supposed to be the easiest location to find

The rebus has nothing to do with the burial location (other than it is in that city, which is no help at all once there). Correlating an easy to determine city with an easy to determine dig spot is clearly flawed.
and yet nobody can make heads or tails of the last lines at the base of the ravine, unlike Chicago and Cleveland.

Kalessin

Is there a reason it couldn’t be just that?

No. But there is a reason it wouldn’t be just that.

Glossiphoniidae

The rebus has nothing to do with the burial location (other than it is in that city, which is no help at all once there). Correlating an easy to determine city with an easy to determine dig spot is clearly flawed.
and yet nobody can make heads or tails of the last lines at the base of the ravine, unlike Chicago and Cleveland.

Allow me to be more specific: I meant to say Milwaukee was supposed to be the easiest *city* to find.
And maybe: The Milwaukee rebus appears with an obvious image of Milwaukee city hall, might imply one should look for city-indentifying buildings in other images. As have been found.

Unknown

Unknown:
might imply one should look for city-indentifying buildings in other images. As have been found.

How many? Three for sure, maybe four. Certainly no more than that before the arguments begin. And in my experience, once the argument begins, it’s time to look to something else.

maltedfalcon

water tower
city hall
transit building
fort sumter
st nicholas church
the castillo
so at least those
there is also the castle in boston
i thought that was identified but i dont keep up really with that one
so maybe that one is arguable
but basically 8 with identifiable buildings

Also the face of the Statue of Liberty I don’t think anyone argues about
But then we have the written references to physical buildings and land masses as well
The ones most agree about:
Three stories of Mitchell
St Charles hotel/Lafayette square
Fence and fixture
Look north at the wing to achieve by dauntless and (I)(u)ncoquerable
Etc.
Then there are the others most don’t know or largely disagree on:
There’s the spout!
Giant pole/stone walls door
Grey giant/isle of B
Etc.

Unknown

Unknown:
Also the face of the Statue of Liberty I don’t think anyone argues about

Funny thing about that, especially if you are looking for works of art to tie an Image to a City. You know, so you don’t go looking for these things in Boise.
Step 1B

at 421 see my montreal solution…i explain that. he made the puzzle better by covering up the fleur de lis.

Glossiphoniidae

The rebus has nothing to do with the burial location (other than it is in that city, which is no help at all once there). Correlating an easy to determine city with an easy to determine dig spot is clearly flawed.
and yet nobody can make heads or tails of the last lines at the base of the ravine, unlike Chicago and Cleveand.

umm you really need to catch up on things…we know the location…i know the exact dig spot…

There’s also a possible, very shadowed, Coit Tower in SF image 1, standing on its squared-off base…

Euhirudinea

Funny thing about that, especially if you are looking for works of art to tie an Image to a City. You know, so you don’t go looking for these things in Boise.
Step 1B

That’s true, however in 1982 there were around 250 replica Statues of Liberty around the United States
at least 3 besides the original were located in NY NY.
There are actually 2 SOLs 30 feet tall each in Buffalo NY
Alabama has a 36 foot tall one.
and to be clear there is one 10 hours north of Boise, Liberty pier, on lake Pend Oreille, but it was installed in 2003.

Kalessin

There’s also a possible, very shadowed, Coit Tower in SF image 1, standing on its squared-off base…

i think the nose when flipped upside down is a better match for coit. there is something ghostly in that section you posted, i was asking for a zoom of exactly that before (so thank you) but it doesnt seem to have made anything more clear (oh well…)

Unknown

Unknown:
That’s true, however in 1982 there were around 250 replica Statues of Liberty around the United States

C’mon Matt, now you aren’t even trying. And with each post like the one above, and with all due respect, your credibility on here sinks a little lower.

maltedfalcon

That’s true, however in 1982 there were around 250 replica Statues of Liberty around the United States
at least 3 besides the original were located in NY NY.
There are actually 2 SOLs 30 feet tall each in Buffalo NY
Alabama has a 36 foot tall one.
and to be clear there is one 10 hours north of Boise, Liberty pier, on lake Pend Oreille, but it was installed in 2003.

the ones in buff are on top of a building

Glossiphoniidae

No. But there is a reason it wouldn’t be just that.

IMO it confuses the image.
If you show me a fleur-de-lis I’m going to automatically assume it’s NOLA.

Coverups do make it harder… I think I see your point.
If we assume the purple circle on the St Aug flag was placed after the painting was made, and its covering up the fort, it would be placed there to make the image harder.
The fort is far too iconic, it would make matching that painting to a city a cinch.

Euhirudinea

C’mon Matt, now you aren’t even trying. And with each post like the one above, and with all due respect, your credibility on here sinks a little lower.

oh dang, you got me. Just playing.
obviously you start on the Liberty Island, Take the Ferry to Battery Park go up alongside Central Park and then turn at St Nicholas.
Just like Chicago, Cleveland, Charleston, St Augustine and San Francisco

oh dang, you got me. Just playing.
obviously you start on the Liberty Island, Take the Ferry to Battery Park go up alongside Central Park and then turn at St Nicholas.
Just like Chicago, Cleveland, Charleston, St Augustine and San Francisco
Possibly New Orleans, & Milwaukee
The weird ones being Boston,Roanoke, Houston, & Montreal
So you are saying that things repeat across verses, first obviously but then as the puzzles get more difficult the methods fade and disapear. is that a good summary?
and that there are physical methods, Literature methods and Artistic Methods to follow across the range of puzzles that start obviously and then fade away.
Sometimes in the image there are iconic images, but perhaps it fades away so far it appears in the verse in some puzzles rather than the image.
regardless it is from these associations that we can firmly nail down the cities/image/verse/combinations. Is this what you are saying?

Euhirudinea

How many? Three for sure, maybe four. Certainly no more than that before the arguments begin. And in my experience, once the argument begins, it’s time to look to something else.

water tower
city hall
transit building
fort sumter
st nicholas church
the castillo
so at least those
there is also the castle in boston
i thought that was identified but i dont keep up really with that one
so maybe that one is arguable
but basically 8 with identifiable buildings

Unknown

Unknown:
obviously you start on the Liberty Island, Take the Ferry to Battery Park go up alongside Central Park and then turn at St Nicholas.

Notwithstanding that there is nothing obvious about it, then what? You’ve taken me (and everyone else) to Central Park.

Euhirudinea

Notwithstanding that there is nothing obvious about it, then what? You’ve taken me (and everyone else) to Central Park.

No I certainly did not,
I said beside central park, in no way did I say in.
is this a match? no it is not. The clues do not lead you to central park.

Unknown

Unknown:
I said beside central park, in no way did I say in.

Neither did I Matt. I said “to”. So now that we have established where we are (adjacent to but not in CP), and we are supposed to turn, which way do we go? I remember, but since this is the “Spill Thread”, you should spill.
By the way, this discussion gets to the heart of Step 3 (finding the Park), so I’ll assume that all your previous questions about Steps 1 and 2 are moot. You are already past that point.

Euhirudinea

Neither did I Matt. I said “to”. So now that we have established where we are (adjacent to but not in CP), and we are supposed to turn, which way do we go? I remember, but since this is the “Spill Thread”, you should spill.
By the way, this discussion gets to the heart of Step 3 (finding the Park), so I’ll assume that all your previous questions about Steps 1 and 2 are moot. You are already past that point.

well it is the slow spill…
actually I am at St.Nicholas You can go left or right on 97th…
LOL I know where I want to get, I just am having trouble getting there.
So currently I am Statue of Liberty, Battery Park, St. Nicholas, (Magic happens *poof*) dig site… sadly not a park…
but I so want to figure out the Magic. so absolutely not moot.

Unknown

Unknown:
well it is the slow spill…

Fair enough. However, here is what you have revealed so far:
1) We are meant to begin our journey at the SoL because…
2) We are meant to travel to something else because…
3) From there, we are meant to go someplace else because…
4) We are meant to end up in a place that isn’t even in a park because…
5) And once there, we are meant to dig because…
I’m sorry, but that’s damn near Josh Cornell territory. There has got to be an easier way or the New York puzzle is unsolvable.

JoshCornell

i think the nose when flipped upside down is a better match for coit. there is something ghostly in that section you posted, i was asking for a zoom of exactly that before (so thank you) but it doesnt seem to have made anything more clear (oh well…)

The shape I outlined (though my top yellow outline is a little vague and wandering) is at roughly the same scale as a number of the hidden buildings in other images.
The image files that I’m using are the ones I think most people are using, the hi-res scans, so you should be able to zoom in on them yourself. I used MS Paint for the image editing.

Euhirudinea

Fair enough. However, here is what you have revealed so far:
1) We are meant to begin our journey at the SoL because…
2) We are meant to travel to something else because…
3) From there, we are meant to go someplace else because…
4) We are meant to end up in a place that isn’t even in a park because…
5) And once there, we are meant to dig because…
I’m sorry, but that’s damn near Josh Cornell territory. There has got to be an easier way or the New York puzzle is unsolvable.

I actually said, hmmm based on how Chicago,Cleveland work and how Charleston, St Augustine and San Francisco, Possibly New Orleans, & Milwaukee seem to work,
It looks to me like you start at SOL because it is in the image like, the water tower, the transit building, and Fort Sumter, The Castillo, Golden Gate Park, Louis Armstrong, and City Hall
In 1981 the SOL ferry only went to Battery Park (no other stops)
Then there is 10 ways out of Battery Park (well more if you count subways)
but then the next identifiable marker is St. Nicholas’s Church on 97th between 5th and Madison.
So a very logical continuation, and reason to be here.
This is where I am trying to apply the ideas you are putting forth to seeing if I can go forward.
You are correct there is no point in speculating further until I get past this spot…
If you can make this easier please do.

Unknown

Unknown:
If you can make this easier please do.

I could tell you that I think you are making mistake after mistake after mistake in an effort to reverse-engineer the puzzle so that you can justify a dig spot. In essence, going from the hardest thing to figure out (Step 5-Dig Spot) to the easiest thing (Step 1-City). But that’s just an argument waiting to happen, so I’ll pass.
I’ll repeat, this is the Spill Thread. So instead of saying “like Chicago, et. al.”, perhaps you can show exactly how Chicago works, and then apply those same principles to five other puzzles in exactly the same manner. Then we would have something to talk about. All of us.

Euhirudinea

I could tell you that I think you are making mistake after mistake after mistake in an effort to reverse-engineer the puzzle so that you can justify a dig spot. In essence, going from the hardest thing to figure out (Step 5-Dig Spot) to the easiest thing (Step 1-City). But that’s just an argument waiting to happen, so I’ll pass.
I’ll repeat, this is the Spill Thread. So instead of saying “like Chicago, et. al.”, perhaps you can show exactly how Chicago works, and then apply those same principles to five other puzzles in exactly the same manner. Then we would have something to talk about. All of us.

My Iconic Image theory hasn’t changed, there is a whole thread about it.
I don’t want to argue about any particular dig spot. I want to apply the knowledge you seem to be slowly spilling to my iconic image theory in order to improve it.
one of the biggest drawbacks of my theory is not every picture has an iconic image.
from what I am gathering about your ideas, that makes sense then. as they get difficult the methods would become harder to do and then stop altogether?
correct me if I am wrong.

Unknown

Unknown:
I want to apply the knowledge you seem to be slowly spilling to my iconic image theory in order to improve it

Don’t try to improve it, or modify it, or anything else to it besides taking it out to the woodshed and killing it with an ax. It does not work with any consistency and believe me, I’ve tried. And it leads to seriously flawed thinking, like assuming the map of GGP is not a map that works like all the other maps, but an iconic starting point for a path to another park altogether.
But, that’s my opinion and I’m willing to be proven wrong. But first, I need to know what I am arguing against and you seem unwilling to make even the most basic argument in defense of your current theory. Four21 has had some serious success with this thread, at least as far as getting people interested. Perhaps you should start fresh, and start a new one of your own. Put the theory out there again for everyone to review and see what comes of it.
Just a thought.

maltedfalcon

there is also the castle in boston

Let the argument begin…

Euhirudinea

Don’t try to improve it, or modify it, or anything else to it besides taking it out to the woodshed and killing it with an ax. It does not work with any consistency and believe me, I’ve tried. And it leads to seriously flawed thinking, like assuming the map of GGP is not a map that works like all the other maps, but an iconic starting point for a path to another park altogether.
But, that’s my opinion and I’m willing to be proven wrong. But first, I need to know what I am arguing against and you seem unwilling to make even the most basic argument in defense of your current theory. Four21 has had some serious success with this thread, at least as far as getting people interested. Perhaps you should start fresh, and start a new one of your own. Put the theory out there again for everyone to review and see what comes of it.
Just a thought.

Great idea! I will do just that.

Scrappy929

I can’t speak to image 6 image verifiers. Maybe something can be found in the image 6 thread or may have been mentioned on the podcast. I’ve been spending a majority of my time on image 1. I am having a hard enough time finding image verifiers for that one. Something someone mentioned recently on a thread is right on point… an image verifier will not look similar… it will be exact. We can usually find many things that look similar. Using both of the solved images, we know that we need exact, and it shouldn’t even be questioned when it is found. Good luck on image 6.

I like what you’ve been discussing but I have to wonder about the exactness of what you would see. With the two “easiest” (not my word) casques being found and the more expensive jewel cities having a more difficult puzzle we have no way to know the level “exactness” in the cities where they’ve not been found.

karleen

I like what you’ve been discussing but I have to wonder about the exactness of what you would see. With the two “easiest” (not my word) casques being found and the more expensive jewel cities having a more difficult puzzle we have no way to know the level “exactness” in the cities where they’ve not been found.

Yes. Those 2 seem “easiest” since the image verifiers are very evident. Some of the other puzzles seem to be lacking obvious image verifiers like the 2 solved ones, making them much harder. Or, some of the identifiers we might have been able to confirm, may be lost due to time. Once the next one is solved, we may know more. There definitely seems to be quite the difference between the puzzles… just adding to the overall puzzle.

Behind bending branches and a “formerly” green picket fence –
https://i0.wp.com/floridarambler.com/wp … .jpg?ssl=1

Glossiphoniidae

The lane that has no turning.
It must be remembered that the sea is a great breeder of friendship.
Northern lights.
The Citadel, a night wind-swept and bound about with glee.
One more flight of a wingless bird.

To clarify, the image and verse here were not meant to be linked. This is simply two different clues.
One for Montreal.
One for St. Augustine.

maltedfalcon

it seemed more from the original title of this thread that rather than move things along, this thread was to **** John, has that goal changed? That didnt seem very “lofty”

The goal of this thread is to spread information. This, in turn, f*cks John. And you. And others who have attempted to hide information and mislead others.

burnstyle

This came out privatly a few months back (I have no doubt the theory originated with 421).
I tried to form some connection with Keats, Remington, and st augustine… but I couldn’t.
I had better luck with oscar wilde who wrote “the grave of Keats”

Do tell.

burnstyle

I had better luck with oscar wilde who wrote “the grave of Keats”

Thy name was writ in water

BINGO

Thy name was writ in water

I asked BS. We all know the quote and where it appears… but BS seemed to have some luck connecting Wilde with St. Augustine as opposed to Keats.
“I tried to form some connection with Keats, Remington, and st augustine… but I couldn’t. I had better luck with oscar wilde who wrote “the grave of Keats”
Why did Wilde connect to St. Augustine better than Keats?

Just trying to contribute and stay on topic.

BINGO

Just trying to contribute and stay on topic.

Me too

An interesting pattern…

keats takes you to the lamia. obvs. (llambia house)

Unknown

Unknown:
keats takes you…

Sure, why not? And hundreds of other places throughout the United States and Canada by exactly the same logic. That is, there is a connection we can make between something in the Image or Verse and something we find in North America, so that’s what we are meant to do. Limiting those connections to specific cities is only slightly more useful given that what we are ultimately looking for is buried 3′ underground, but it’s a start. But that assumes we can agree on the connection being made, which is rarely the case. Until it is, which quells the argument and moves the puzzle forward. Which is what this thread is all about. This takes you to that, and nowhere else. IOW, this thread is not about possibilities, but eliminating possibilities.
(12-X)^2

burnstyle

Thy name was writ in water——it shall stand:
And tears like mine will keep thy memory green,
As
Isabella
did her Basil-tree.

Any of those around town?

thats the link, not the clue.

Glossiphoniidae

Why did Wilde connect to St. Augustine better than Keats?

I don’t know really. I was in a situation where I didn’t really understand the theory or method behind the information, just that there was a painting that linked to the city painting (remmington as best as anyone has put forth)
And an author. Keats never really made sense… it doesn’t seem to go back to anything related to St. Augustine (within the puzzle) that I could see.
Wilde did however with the theme of Dorian Grey.
That’s the best I could put together without knowing what I was looking for, or why.
*edit, though with your monica painting and Wilde being sort of, obsessed with confessions, I assume that is the connection you are drawing?

Glossiphoniidae

Any of those around town?

Well now…
That is interesting.

So. If you are talking about the mule sculpture:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking- … 23f074.jpg
Afaik, that sculpture has been locked away since the park was made… you cant get close to it. But the connection is interesting.
I’d say it could be coincidence, but these puzzles seems to have far too much in common to be a coincidence.
Like each park having a reference inside it to another park in the puzzle, and each park having lat-long cords nearby (though some of them are incorrect)
I still cant quite see how this relates to a dig site (though I do understand ren said this is only for establishing a city)
This is an interesting rabbit hole to fall down, thank you for starting the conversation.

Unknown

Unknown:
I still cant quite see how this relates to a dig site

Establishing a dig site is Step 5. And we may never get there for some or all of the puzzles (because Chicago*). But for now, we are still on Steps 1 and 2. I’m glad to see that we are finally making some progress. Truly.
*And please, for the love of God, please don’t anyone say that the Chicago puzzle resolves to a precise dig spot. It does not.

Euhirudinea

*And please, for the love of God, please don’t anyone say that the Chicago puzzle resolves to a precise dig spot. It does not.

I’d agree with that as well. Those guys got pretty lucky with Byron still being alive, I’m sure that thing would still be in the ground had he not been.
So my only two questions are
How would someone in 1982 come to make these connections
and
where do we go once we have made them.
There has to be some sort of rule right? or a guideline? Because without one, or without context of some sort, how would anyone just picking up the book know that they are traveling down the correct path and not just making stabs in the dark that result in coincidences?
For instance, That poem references isabella and her basil, of which there is a painting, and due to the name (I am assuming) the statue on st george street. It’s interesting that the painting is in a museum in boston by the BBF, but how would someone in 1982 know that was important if they had no concept of the puzzle as a whole? If we didnt already know where the cities and verses go, how would we KNOW that this information is helping us?

https://www.bartleby.com/126/36.html

burnstyle

Well now…
That is interesting.

Is that still located at the Hispanic Gardens in St Augustine?

BINGO

Is that still located at the Hispanic Gardens in St Augustine?

Yes
https://www.google.com/maps/place/St+Ge … 81.3122049

cause part of the puzzle is telling you how to do the puzzle. everything is reinforced, so if you arent finding reinforcement youre probably way off. or guessing randomly.

Unknown

Unknown:
Those guys got pretty lucky with Byron still being alive

Or the rest of us got pretty unlucky with BP’s untimely death, and the fact that we were 20 years too late to the party. I’ll let 421 address the rest of your questions George, but my response should give you some indication of what I think.

burnstyle

For instance, That poem references isabella and her basil, of which there is a painting, and due to the name (I am assuming) the statue on st george street. It’s interesting that the painting is in a museum in boston

Maybe I have it mixed up, but the Isabella and her pot of Basil painting by Hunt is a depiction of a scene from a Keats poem. I believe that one is located in England.
There is one in Boston, by Alexander. Similar title and scene, but very different. Please correct me if I’m off on this.

burnstyle

how would someone in 1982 know [what] was important if they had no concept of the puzzle as a whole?

burnstyle

If we didnt already know where the cities and verses go, how would we KNOW that this information is helping us?

They wouldn’t. They would “just make stabs in the dark that result in coincidences.”
You wouldn’t. You wouldn’t know it was helpful until you started floundering to connect verses and images, and you were forced to look outside the “box.”
When you go back and find that all cities for all verses and images can all be determined by literature and art, you would KNOW that the information is helpful.
The nice thing about art and literature is it is stable and eternal.
How do you reconcile that cleveland takes very little effort to solve, chicago only slightly more, and montreal is literally impossible?
Don’t the puzzles seem to be progressing from literal into oblivion?
How much would you really need if you knew what you were looking for?
How much do you really need to know to find a casque?
An image/verse pair.
A city.
A park.
An area of the park.
An X.

Fenix

…perhaps we need to uncover something that is fundamentally different than what people have accepted as template findings in the other verses/images.

Fully agree.

burnstyle

So. If you are talking about the mule sculpture:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking- … 23f074.jpg
Afaik, that sculpture has been locked away since the park was made… you cant get close to it. But the connection is interesting.
I’d say it could be coincidence, but these puzzles seems to have far too much in common to be a coincidence.
Like each park having a reference inside it to another park in the puzzle, and each park having lat-long cords nearby (though some of them are incorrect)
I still cant quite see how this relates to a dig site (though I do understand ren said this is only for establishing a city)
This is an interesting rabbit hole to fall down, thank you for starting the conversation.

I was hoping he was talking about this….
https://www.isabelasbarcuba.com/
….so I could grab a cohiba, montecristo or padron, if I visit. Would be good to have, while looking around.

Mister EZ

….so I could grab a cohiba, montecristo or padron, if I visit. Would be good to have, while looking around.

Their house cigars are nice, and free when you buy a beer.
10/10 would recommend.

So if we accept the premise of this post so far, and we use this information to narrow down a city painting and a verse, where do we go from there?
If I use all this to get to st aug, I still find myself sitting at the fountain of youth looking for a tree. Where do I go from here?

Unknown

Unknown:
How much do you really need to know to find a casque? A city. An image/verse pair. A park. An area of the park. An X.

Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, Step 4, and Step 5. The interesting thing about the last step is that you could fit all the information Preiss needed to know about Steps 1-3 in 3 or 4 well crafted sentences, and everything he needed to know about Step 4 in a few more. Or about the same amount of space reserved for the job on Page 220 of the book. Try it for Chicago or Cleveland if you don’t agree.

burnstyle

So if we accept the premise of this post so far, and we use this information to narrow down a city painting and a verse, where do we go from there?

burnstyle

If I use all this to get to st aug, I still find myself sitting at the fountain of youth looking for a tree. Where do I go from here?

it’s not really “narrowed down,” it just is what it is. after you have done this successfully, choose a city to go to where you know one is, and start looking around.
You probably start digging a shit ton of holes. Sooner or later you realize, the verse, at least in the manner believed, doesn’t seem to really pinpoint anything. So, maybe you start working on another puzzle. Maybe you reassess the past. Maybe you call JJP and ask if there is a casque in FOY. Maybe you realize you are missing something. The book was pretty clear about not wanting you to dig random holes.

Unknown

Unknown:
You probably start digging a shit ton of holes.

Nobody in their right mind digs a “shit ton of holes”. Unless they have no other choice.

Euhirudinea

…How hard would Roanoke have been if there was something, anything really that fit the description of “last touched or first seen standing” at the overlook? These certainly seem to be some of the easier puzzles, but are they really?

Just a thought
The suspected Thomas Hariot trail that leads to the beach (mica/driftwood) is not a dead end at the overlook but the trail is a loop. There are many signs along the trail, because of the way the trail loops it could be one of these trail signs that is at the entrance/exit (first seen / last touched). If the signs were in the 80’s like they are now they look tall enough and wide enough to dig “under.” Or possible something else similar at the entrance/ exit of this trail.
https://www.nps.gov/fora/planyourvisit/maps.htm
https://mobile.twitter.com/FortRaleighN … 2016648192

The trail (renamed from Dogwood Trail) seems to have been there since 1960, without modification….not sure about the interpretive signs along the path.
https://archive.org/stream/culturallandscap002010/culturallandscap002010_djvu.txt
But, it is and has been a National Historic site.
Would be like digging at Fort Sumter, Jackson Square or similar park.
Here’s some info and Maps contained in a Land Protection plan from ’83…no plans at that time to alter the trail:
Click Here

Unknown

Unknown:
Or possible something else similar at the entrance/ exit of this trail.

Or something in or around the Watergate, or even the Elizabethan Garden proper. Or in or around the Waterside Theater. Or in another part of Fort Raleigh entirely. At various points, all these ideas have been discussed and dissected. In many cases several times.
There is a very simple and logical way to interpret Verse 11, and it leads us step by step from the Wright Brother’s Memorial to the overlook on the Thomas Harriot Trail, where we can “look north at the wing”. And where we would have had no problem digging to our heart’s content in 1983 if we could only just find the LToFSS. And where people are still digging to this day, hoping to get lucky. If it was there, this is one of the easiest puzzles to solve IMO. But if it’s not, and never was, well then, game on.

Euhirudinea

There is a very simple and logical way to interpret Verse 11, and it leads us step by step from the Wright Brother’s Memorial to the overlook on the Thomas Harriot Trail, where we can “look north at the wing”. And where we would have had no problem digging to our heart’s content in 1983 if we could only just find the LToFSS. And where people are still digging to this day, hoping to get lucky. If it was there, this is one of the easiest puzzles to solve IMO. But if it’s not, and never was, well then, game on.

I’m still confused by what steps are which.
I went back through the whole thread. and I can’t find them listed. would you please just list them
1
1a
1b
2a
2b
3
4
5
What are you saying is each step that needs to be taken. I know one is identify the city and another is identify the verse but which is which and what are the others?

Need help. I have tried several times to upload my images to share however I get a message either too large or forum quota has been met. How can I upload without an issue with this?

use imgur or a photo sharing site. upload your photos there
copy the url they supply
and post it inside a img element like this

Thank you.

I’m new and find the boards confusing. Never heard of The Secret until last Sunday when they showed the NYC search on TV. I was fascinated and posted my take on the New York image and I assume this is the New Orleans Board ?!

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m still confused by what steps are which…would you please just list them

Sure Matt. Just keep in mind that there is nothing in the book that indicates how many steps it takes to solve a puzzle. So, this is just a convenient way I use to keep information organized. And I imagine (but obviously can’t prove) that Preiss did too.
Step 1-Identify the City/Image Connection: A for the easy ones, and B for the harder ones.
Step 2-Make the City/Verse Connection: Again, A for the easy ones and B for the harder ones.
-You now have a list of cities (with their corresponding Images) and a list of cities (with their corresponding verses). Wed the two and you have one master list of 12 cities, 12 verses, and 12 images. No guesswork or speculation necessary. At this point, you have narrowed the search area (originally 9.4 million square miles) to an aggregate area of about 1,200 square miles, more or less.
-Also, most of the work described above could have been done by anyone with access to a decent sized library. So, up to this point, it still can be considered an armchair treasure hunt.
Step 3-Identify the Park
Step 4-Identify the Treasure Ground
Step 5-Identify the Dig Spot
-Interestingly, it does not seem like you needed to complete Step 5 to earn the jewel. A specific and detailed description of the Treasure Ground (what Preiss called the site) and how you got there seems like it would have been sufficient to get Preiss’ attention. But, it should be abundantly clear that if you want to claim a jewel today, you need to logically and objectively work your way through all five steps. There is simply no other ethical way to solve the puzzle, IMO.
Or, you can use Fenix’s method:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Euhirudinea

Step 1-Identify the City/Image Connection: A for the easy ones, and B for the harder ones.
Step 2-Make the City/Verse Connection: Again, A for the easy ones and B for the harder ones.
-You now have a list of cities (with their corresponding Images) and a list of cities (with their corresponding verses). Wed the two and you have one master list of 12 cities, 12 verses, and 12 images. No guesswork or speculation necessary. At this point, you have narrowed the search area (originally 9.4 million square miles) to an aggregate area of about 1,200 square miles, more or less.
-Also, most of the work described above could have been done by anyone with access to a decent sized library. So, up to this point, it still can be considered an armchair treasure hunt.
Step 3-Identify the Park
Step 4-Identify the Treasure Ground
Step 5-Identify the Dig Spot

Thanks I seriously could not find them going back through the thread.

Unknown

Unknown:
Thanks I seriously could not find them going back through the thread.

You’re welcome. I alluded to them on Page 7 of this thread, and you should re-read that post if you truly want to understand what I’m trying to say about the methodology. Hope that helps.

Yve

I’m new and find the boards confusing. Never heard of The Secret until last Sunday when they showed the NYC search on TV. I was fascinated and posted my take on the New York image and I assume this is the New Orleans Board ?!

Welcome to Q4T — our forum site is for many hunts, so at least you’ve found the right sub-forum. With “The Secret” section, there are many threads. A long time ago, we had isolated discussions: 12 for the images and 12 for the verses. Over time, ideas merged and discussions became cross-posted, then branched out, then more people joined. We now have several discussions just about the methods and theories, and so you won’t find a single place just for your New York location.
This thread you are reading now is one of those brainstorming areas, where examples are pulled from all over for analysis and interpretation. If you want to return to basics, you would be siding with the old-timers who are fairly certain that
Image 12
and
Verse 10
pair up and lead to NYC — look for the threads with those topic names. However, feel free to dive in anywhere and consider other pairings. Evalute the clues for yourself, and keep in mind how the passage of decades has changed the terrain.

Unknown

Unknown:
However, feel free to dive in anywhere and consider other pairings.

Agreed. In addition to NY, there are 11 others ( 2 of which are already solved) from which to choose. You can find those pairings on Page 1 of this thread.
Good luck.

Is it possible 421, that there could be more than one piece of classic Art referenced in an image? I completely see the meaning of The virgin of the rocks in the foreground for SF, but the background I see a lot of inspiration from a Chinese classic by Qu Ding called “Summer Mountains”
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1973.120.1/
This particular painting seems to contain some interesting references such as the idea that viewers are meant to identify emperor like images within the mountains that overlook their subjects and that the month for SF is June (height of the “Summer” months) is referenced in the clock. I’ve tried following this thread (have actually gone though it 3 times) but in areas its difficult to follow due to missing sections and sections where Josh C interrupts it.

bbi

Is it possible 421, that there could be more than one piece of classic Art referenced in an image? I completely see the meaning of The virgin of the rocks in the foreground for SF, but the background I see a lot of inspiration from a Chinese classic by Qu Ding called “Summer Mountains”
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1973.120.1/
This particular painting seems to contain some interesting references such as the idea that viewers are meant to identify emperor like images within the mountains that overlook their subjects and that the month for SF is June (height of the “Summer” months) is referenced in the clock. I’ve tried following this thread (have actually gone though it 3 times) but in areas its difficult to follow due to missing sections and sections where Josh C interrupts it.

Sure, why not. In fact, we “know” there is more than one art clue in puzzles. We also “know” there’s more than one lit clue in others, right? This looks like that, right? This reads like that, right? Just keep guessing what palencar and preiss meant for us to see (or one of them tell you), and eventually we’ll figure it out, right? Just keep drawing numbers and digging holes till you get it right.
I’m not saying your wrong. Quite the contrary. I’m saying you’re right.
A publisher would definitely front a bunch a money for a puzzle like that, right?
Or maybe, that’s not the puzzle the publisher fronted money for, it’s just the one everyone’s trying to solve.

I had a feeling that this thread was a preemptive strike for a big development. Did old JM steal your information to dig up casque number 3/4?
We wouldn’t want you to not receive the credit you deserve.

BINGO

Ok, I’ll start over and try to add something productive to this thread. I have little knowledge and interest in any of the other puzzles aside from Boston. So, I will do my best to follow along and fill in what I can with the things related to Boston. Feel free to correct me if I am on the wrong path or not making the proper connection. Sound fair?
Rosetti Painting of Pandora (Clearly an inspiration of Pandora’s box in Image 11)
Copley Painting Red Cross Knight (Similar to the Fairy in Image 11)
This is a crude compass that I fashioned out of image 11. I used the stone ring behind Pandora as the outer edge of the compass and then aligned the center of that ring with the single star in the image, creating True North. (Assuming the star represents Polaris/North Star) I am a land surveyor, so with any compass, True North and Magnetic North should be clearly noted. The difference between the two is called declination. In Boston, the angle between True North and Magnetic North is just under 15 degrees to the West. (Notice how some of the lines seem to match up outside the ring?)
Doesn’t mean anything at this point, but I thought it might be applicable to 421thrasher’s original teachings.
Let the lesson continue without any further disruption. I’m sorry.

BINGO – Looking at your compass, I notice that the something in the wall at right that some interpret as 112 (degree symbol) – looks like it may lie at approximately 112 degrees, clockwise from your true north. I haven’t checked it with a compass. Might that be a clue? What in the painting lies on the 112 degree line? Does it point to anything in particular? (Eyeballing it, looks like it might go right through the jewel)…Anyone?

WhiteRabbit

For Boston, you’ve suggested Rossetti’s
Pandora
, and Longfellow’s Masque of Pandora[/i

I assume that the Lanlord’s Tale by Longfellow is the poem/poet combo that he is alluding to. Verse 3 has a pretty distinct line that parallels that poem.

Unknown

Unknown:
Did old JM steal your information to dig up casque number 3/4?

Not that you asked me, but I’ll offer that most of the information “old JM” has from me was given to him freely. If he used any or all of it to dig up a casque, good for all of us. But if you don’t mind, I’ll wait for “old JM” to weigh in before I comment further.

Euhirudinea

Not that you asked me, but I’ll offer that most of the information “old JM” has from me was given to him freely. If he used any or all of it to dig up a casque, good for all of us. But if you don’t mind, I’ll wait for “old JM” to weigh in before I comment further.

With all due respect, that question was directed at the OP. I have a feeling that his take might be slightly different than yours.
The overall tone and even the title of this thread is in poor taste imo. I don’t know, nor do I care if JM found a casque or if it is just an advertising ploy for their brand. Either way, the tone and delivery of this thread is childish.

Unknown

Unknown:
With all due respect, that question was directed at the OP

With all due respect Bingo, my post was not directed at you. Carry on.

Glossiphoniidae

don’t worry, I’ll keep bumping it with new info for you all. also, feel free to ask questions, and i will answer truthfully without intent to misguide.

Unknown

Unknown:
I don’t know, nor do I care if JM found a casque or if it is just an advertising ploy for their brand.

Near as I can tell Bingo, the only person who is suggesting that a third casque has been found is you. No mention of that has been made on the podcasts (quite the opposite), and near as I can tell, the pictures you posted are not in the public domain. And, most telling, the people who are in a position to know are not talking. Clearly you are trying to provoke a response, based on incomplete information. Why is that?

Euhirudinea

Near as I can tell Bingo, the only person who is suggesting that a third casque has been found is you. No mention of that has been made on the podcasts (quite the opposite), and near as I can tell, the pictures you posted are not in the public domain. And, most telling, the people who are in a position to know are not talking. Clearly you are trying to provoke a response, based on incomplete information. Why is that?

I’m not even a member of the Facebook group and I’ve received 3 texts this morning with that photo. I’d say someone is alluding to something. Fake news or not, even private groups on Facebook are as close to the public domain as one can get. I am simply asking the question if this is what this thread is really about. I apologize if I haven’t fellated the OP during the process.

Unknown

Unknown:
I’d say someone is alluding to something.

I’d say that’s probably true. But your issue should be with the people who are sending you the texts and the pictures, not 421. I get that you don’t agree with his style (and for the record, I agree that the ad hominem attack is gratuitous and counter-productive), but he has made it clear what he is doing in this thread: posting information that will ultimately move the puzzle along. Isn’t what this Forum is for?

Euhirudinea

posting information that will ultimately move the puzzle along. Isn’t what this Forum is for?

I completely agree. Let’s quit the performance, cut through the BS and start doing just that.
So far, I’ve seen no new information provided. Historical paintings, poetry and literary references have been thought to be inspirations for each image and verse and it has been discussed in many places here on q4t.
Let’s hear how everything threads together and we will have the remaining casques excavated before the weekend.

Unknown

Unknown:
So far, I’ve seen no new information provided.

Then you aren’t paying attention. Forget about the why and trust me when I tell you that this thread will move the puzzle along, in due time. Probably not to your satisfaction though, if you think that anyone is close to digging up Casque #3 (or beyond).

BINGO

I assume that the Lanlord’s Tale by Longfellow is the poem/poet combo that he is alluding to. Verse 3 has a pretty distinct line that parallels that poem.

Oh, maybe. For a minute I thought there might be a masterplan to consolidate the image/verse matches on the Wiki.
(I expect JM & co are just having some fun with Trilling’s spare casque.)

Unknown

Unknown:
Its something that seems to have been overlooked recently by post EU searchers including JC,

I’m not sure I agree that it’s only the post EU searchers that are overlooking basic puzzle methodology, but that remains to be seen. I do know that JC is Josh, and JM is John, and that 421’s beef (such as it is) is with the latter. FWIW.

WhiteRabbit

(I expect JM & co are just having some fun with Trilling’s spare casque.)

I tend to agree with you. I just thought it was perfect timing to pour a little gas on the fire that people are afraid to talk about…

Ok, I’ll start over and try to add something productive to this thread. I have little knowledge and interest in any of the other puzzles aside from Boston. So, I will do my best to follow along and fill in what I can with the things related to Boston. Feel free to correct me if I am on the wrong path or not making the proper connection. Sound fair?
Rosetti Painting of Pandora (Clearly an inspiration of Pandora’s box in Image 11)
Copley Painting Red Cross Knight (Similar to the Fairy in Image 11)
This is a crude compass that I fashioned out of image 11. I used the stone ring behind Pandora as the outer edge of the compass and then aligned the center of that ring with the single star in the image, creating True North. (Assuming the star represents Polaris/North Star) I am a land surveyor, so with any compass, True North and Magnetic North should be clearly noted. The difference between the two is called declination. In Boston, the angle between True North and Magnetic North is just under 15 degrees to the West. (Notice how some of the lines seem to match up outside the ring?)
Doesn’t mean anything at this point, but I thought it might be applicable to 421thrasher’s original teachings.
Let the lesson continue without any further disruption. I’m sorry.

Thanks Bingo; both you and 421 have contributed a lot to Boston, and I find this the most interesting puzzle at the moment.

Glossiphoniidae

Match an image with a verse. Match a poet with a portrait.

So, you’re suggesting that each image has a painting, each verse has a poem, and these provide a consistent clue to the image/verse pair. For Boston, you’ve suggested Rossetti’s
Pandora
, and Longfellow’s
Masque of Pandora
…?
For Houston, you’ve given the hint “columns in the desert”. Would the poet be Melville, perhaps
In The Desert
…? There must be thousands of paintings with columns though. Likewise, “woman floating over water” is pretty vague for NY.
You’ve paired I9, generally thought to be based on a Rembrandt self-portrait, with V5; but Poe seems the likeliest poetic link for that verse, and I haven’t been able to connect them. You’ve matched I1, thought to be Virgin of the Rocks, with V7, which mentions Twain, but I haven’t been able to find a poetic connection with him, or anyone else (except Rossetti again).
It’s an interesting idea, but I think I’m happy to let someone else do the legwork…

BINGO

Ok, I’ll start over and try to add something productive to this thread. I have little knowledge and interest in any of the other puzzles aside from Boston. So, I will do my best to follow along and fill in what I can with the things related to Boston. Feel free to correct me if I am on the wrong path or not making the proper connection. Sound fair?
Rosetti Painting of Pandora (Clearly an inspiration of Pandora’s box in Image 11)
Copley Painting Red Cross Knight (Similar to the Fairy in Image 11)
This is a crude compass that I fashioned out of image 11. I used the stone ring behind Pandora as the outer edge of the compass and then aligned the center of that ring with the single star in the image, creating True North. (Assuming the star represents Polaris/North Star) I am a land surveyor, so with any compass, True North and Magnetic North should be clearly noted. The difference between the two is called declination. In Boston, the angle between True North and Magnetic North is just under 15 degrees to the West. (Notice how some of the lines seem to match up outside the ring?)
Doesn’t mean anything at this point, but I thought it might be applicable to 421thrasher’s original teachings.
Let the lesson continue without any further disruption. I’m sorry.

In addition to the Red Cross Knight is Copley’s rendition of Paul Revere.
https://imgur.com/a/1bYuvEK
https://imgur.com/a/S0lix65

Ill ask again…what exactly is being spilled here? The title of the thread implies that solid information is known and proven by a few and they are attempting to slowly share it here? what is that point? if you know it, spill it.

strike13

Ill ask again…what exactly is being spilled here? The title of the thread implies that solid information is known and proven by a few and they are attempting to slowly share it here? what is that point? if you know it, spill it.

Not meant to be read in a jerk tone…I am just genuinely curious

What was supposed to be spilled was the method of how the verses matches with the images, from what I gathered. I haven’t read anything that helps and everyone is always so cryptic.
I guess the point is that nobody knows how to match the verses with the images correctly.

I have no idea what’s going on here, but my opinion on whether a consistent method for linking verses to images is no, none exists. What seems to be a verse link for one doesn’t seem to work for others.
The Greek puzzle for starters would make quick sense given theres some Greeks mentioned in verse 4, but then theres also those mentioned in verse 3, so maybe that’s all we can hope for as one approach or another is likely going to have options, or be more vague as difficulty increases.
That leads me to the concept of difficulty itself. Any job becomes immensely difficult when the wrong tools or no tools at all are being used. I think it is necessary to figure out what tools are needed for each puzzle. Finding these tools may includes looking at word definitions, grammar, quotes, acrostics, homophones, synonyms, historical events, art and architecture, cultural bias and interesting departures from the norm or a common perspective of Man, because I believe the fair Folk went for something uniquely fitting to whatever traits that would be expected of them.
Ultimately, I think a foundation of reason for every hint is packed tightly into each puzzle creation.

Spiritr

LOL, you serious???

Totally – your opinion differs?

I believe someone will find them someday,
“Luck” is unexplainable, that’s why we have lottery winners and miracles, right?
but logically speaking….no, I don’t think so.

WhiteRabbit

Wait, what…?
So, there’s that St Augustine picture; if it’s being suggested that it’s a match, or a clue, then I don’t buy it. There’s a slight resemblance of pose, but I could find a similar match for anyone from Greta Garbo to Mickey Mouse.
Was there something else?

Scroll down to the park entrances map – it should be an eye opener. –
https://www.nps.gov/ever/planyourvisit/ … enters.htm

I might be pursaded to buy into the each v/p having been based on a famous literary work/painting. Not sure how that would help though unless the park in question was at an intersection of this famous poet and that famous painter. I find it really hard to believe that we would have to copy or flip or rotate, intersect compass lines and or duplicate and overlay ect to find a casque. Seems like a rabbit hole conspiracy theories. Yes the “more expensive gems were designed to be more difficult,” but more likely that would have been by way of more obscure literature clues and probably less visual clues. Coupled with the fact that a lot of landscapes have changed in four decades and a lot of confederate and “offensive” statues/monuments being removed some may never be found; on purpose anyhow.
Do you think Preiss worked so closely with JJP enough to have him duplicate such complicated components into the art works? Did JJP say that he burned more than just photos? I suppose its possible but at this point I’m not a believer since two have been found with out such methodology…even if they were “easy.”

maltese falcon is 1000% in there but not via that clue. i mean, searching for a jewel encrusted falcon? how could it not, hell…even the black bird (is to the maltese falcon what high tension is to vertigo) is referenced. thats not the three volume novel youre looking for.

Unknown

Unknown:
or they are maltedfalcon

Maltedfalcon fits into the broad second category that I mentioned. Digging up a casque may not be the only way to move the puzzle along, but it certainly is the surest. You have to assume BP knew this about the puzzle he constructed, and included “The Treasure” pages in the back of the book for that reason. Otherwise, we would have been instructed where to send the key if/when we found it, and nothing else.

Glossiphoniidae

Now that you have come to conclusion on if… WHY the cover up?

I know it’s got to be something more sinister than a reconsideration before going to final print that they felt a fleur-de-lis might be a little too obvious to use as clue for the Montreal cask.
E: Did the fleur-de-lis throw the progression of difficulty all askew?

burnstyle

So if we accept the premise of this post so far, and we use this information to narrow down a city painting and a verse, where do we go from there?
If I use all this to get to st aug, I still find myself sitting at the fountain of youth looking for a tree. Where do I go from here?

burnstyle, I would ask….”Why do you find yourself looking for a tree?”
Fenix stated, and I agree for whatever that’s worth:
…perhaps we need to uncover something that is fundamentally different than what people have accepted as template findings in the other verses/images.
I realize many others have the verse line about the base of a tree as their key clue. But if you read the verse in a different segmented form, searchers for St. Augustine can get away from that “template”.
Instead of this:
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree. ( many people seem to be reading this section with a period after tree )
How about this segment:
Behind bending branches and a green picket fence, at the base of a tall tree you can still hear the honking.
As you know, I believe these lines in the Verse refer to the daily canon firing inside FOY next to the wooden Watchtower (tall tree) and not a location of the casque.
Remember burnstyle, you helped me see some clues differently and get “away” from my original spot inside the Castillo and I thank you. Now maybe I get you or some others “away” from a tree.

This thread now has over 2,000 views, all in the last 10 days. To put that in perspective for our little corner of the internet, not counting the legacy threads (Image/Verse) fewer than 10 new threads have achieved that distinction. And only 2 in the last 6 months, both of which are essentially irrelevant and have dropped to Page 4 and Page 5, respectively. IOW, 2,000 is a lot of views for us.
Now most of that could just be 421 manically clicking away in the dark, like Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction”. But somehow I doubt that’s the cause for all those views. No, people are reading, and wondering. Hopefully they are researching, and thinking, and talking. And trying to figure things our for themselves. If you are one of those people, good for you. It’s a puzzle. And it’s fun.
But I feel compelled at this point to tell you that there are others, besides 421 (and let’s be honest, me) who have had some or all of this information for over 2 years. And neither of us, and none of them have a casque to show for it, as far as I know. Not only do the puzzles get harder, but the Steps get harder as well. There is seemingly no end to the rabbit holes you can go down on the internet, and the paths you can do down in the parks in search of those elusive 2′ x 2′ patches of ground.
But, there are still 10 puzzles to solve, and there are still 10 casques to be found, some of which (in whole or in part) may still be exactly where Preiss put them almost 37 years ago. And hopefully, by reading this thread, you are in a better place to move things along, and perhaps even find one of them. Happy hunting.

MrBackstop

As you know, I believe these lines in the Verse refer to the daily canon firing inside FOY next to the wooden Watchtower (tall tree) and not a location of the casque.
Remember burnstyle, you helped me see some clues differently and get “away” from my original spot inside the Castillo and I thank you. Now maybe I get you or some others “away” from a tree.

Ok cool, but that watchtower was built 5 or 6 years ago. There was nothing there before that.
I’ll try to find an exact date for you.

Construction began on the cannon firing exhibit in 2010
https://imgur.com/ebBzbIK
Construction of the watchtower in 2013
https://imgur.com/a/YWLHOps

Euhirudinea

But I feel compelled at this point to tell you that there are others, besides 421 (and let’s be honest, me) who have had some or all of this information for over 2 years. And neither of us, and none of them have a casque to show for it, as far as I know.

This statement infers that “The others” were trying to apply this information actively to the hunt. I don’t think that was/is the case.
Personally I just don’t see how this would help the first purchasers of this book (the people that BP worried would solve the hunt almost overnight[or at least too quickly])
The only progress that has happened so far, has been people simply, totally familiar with their local hunts…
you only see these associations after huge amounts of google searches and multiple people collaborating
So while the associations are real and there, I think they are artifacts of the construction of the puzzles,
and while that let BP have a full and robust prose and beautiful imagery, It’s interesting, but I don’t think it leads anywhere.
Like the rest of the book, I consider this, rubrum clupea pallasi
still if someone else can use this to go forward and make progress, I cheer you on.

Unknown

Unknown:
This statement infers that “The others” were trying to apply this information
actively
to the hunt.

I know some were Matt. The reason that most of this information is no big deal to most of the others is that none of them seriously think that we don’t have the correct City/Verse/Image connections. They have moved on to Step 3, and beyond.

maltedfalcon

Personally I just don’t see how this would help the first purchasers of this book

maltedfalcon

The only progress that has happened so far, has been people simply, totally familiar with their local hunts…

maltedfalcon

you only see these associations after huge amounts of google searches and multiple people collaborating

maltedfalcon

So while the associations are real and there, I think they are artifacts of the construction of the puzzles

It wouldn’t have. They would have focused on the easier aspects of the puzzle… Cleveland, Chicago, follow a path to an end point, follow a road from a building to a park. They would’ve started coming up dry pretty quick.
If you mean the Chicago finders, true. The guys who found it in Cleveland used the internet and were not from the area. One just found the spot pictured on the internet, and sent the other to dig it up (who was on his was to Philly to dig, btw). Where else has there been progress? Legion?
Not if you know what you are looking for.
You mean to tell me that each verse and image is
BASED
upon a work of literature and art, and they are just artifacts of construction with no meaning?

Glossiphoniidae

Playbill

I think this is a good example of what Matt was talking about.
Let’s say you are a dude living in Idaho in 1983, and you just bought a copy of the secret.
How are you supposed to know what the 1980 lost colony playbill looks like? And if that is integral to the puzzle, why would Byron choose something for inspiration that changes year to year, and would have been last used 2 years before the book came out?
I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’ve just been curious about this theory for awhile, but I can’t get anyone to explain the method they are using…. which makes the information shared seem like random shots in the dark with no connection to anything else.
The closest I’ve come to anyone explaining it is Josh… and he still leaves huge gaps out, because of that his theories seem crazy to most people.
This is the first time anyone has tried explaining in depth, and I appreciate it. I hope it ultimately helps everyone.

burnstyle

Let’s say you are a dude living in Idaho in 1983, and you just bought a copy of the secret.
How are you supposed to know what the 1980 lost colony playbill looks like? And if that is integral to the puzzle, why would Byron choose something for inspiration that changes year to year, and would have been last used 2 years before the book came out?

You know what never changes or goes away (with the exception of Alexandria)?
Art.
Literature.

Unknown

Unknown:
Let’s say you are a dude living in Idaho in 1983

A dude in Idaho would be SoL with regard to this puzzle, regardless of whether he could connect the playbill to Roanoke. Nobody was traveling any great distance to search for a casque when the prize was worth, on average, about $850. He might convince himself that there was a casque buried in Boise, and send in a solution to BP (Visual Publications or otherwise), but would have gotten no response, and he would have promptly forgotten about “The Secret” altogether.
The reason this theory works, and the only reason anyone should pay attention to it is because in 2018, it is predictive. That is, what comes first and is easy to find informs what comes later and is hard to find. And that’s true no matter where you live.

Glossiphoniidae

Would this count as art or literature?
I would say neither, this is local ephemera, the kind of stuff BP probably collected when burying the casque and then sent on to JJP.
like a map of golden gate park or a brochure for the FOY or Castillo.

Euhirudinea

Nobody in their right mind digs a “shit ton of holes”. Unless they have no other choice.

or they are maltedfalcon LMAO

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m missing something here… where in the Montreal image is the covered-over second flower?

The answer to your question can be found on the bottom of Page 113 of the Image 9 thread (which is currently near the top of Page 3). It’s a screenshot from the Expedition Unknown episode about “The Secret”, and shows the original, unedited painting for Montreal.

Euhirudinea

The answer to your question can be found on the bottom of Page 113 of the Image 9 thread (which is currently near the top of Page 3). It’s a screenshot from the Expedition Unknown episode about “The Secret”, and shows the original, unedited painting for Montreal.

Thank you!
The uncovered original is very interesting, there being fleurs-de-lis on the Montreal and Quebec flags, etc.
The coverup doesn’t even cover the tips of the top three petals of the fleur-de-lis. If the original painting didn’t have the coverup applied to it, then it was probably done in the pre-press stage of production.
(MHO, I agree with the wiki that the coverup looks like a part of the Habitat 67 apartments.)

Kalessin

The uncovered original is very interesting, there being fleurs-de-lis on the Montreal and Quebec flags, etc.
The coverup doesn’t even cover the tips of the top three petals of the fleur-de-lis. If the original painting didn’t have the coverup applied to it, then it was probably done in the pre-press stage of production.
(MHO, I agree with the wiki that the coverup looks like a part of the Habitat 67 apartments.)

Now that you have come to conclusion on if… WHY the cover up?

I sincerely enjoy it when 421 and Reno discuss the actual puzzle. So, where are we with all of this? Have we reached a specific step? Was there a hint dropped that we missed?
Let’s get this back on track!

Hold up. There’s a puzzle? That sounds cool, what’s it about?

forest_blight

Hold up. There’s a puzzle? That sounds cool, what’s it about?

Honestly? It’s an exercise in learning to eliminate all distractions, rejecting all the bait, no matter how tempting, and a test of your ability to stay focused on that which matters. (which certainly explains a few things around here).

Got it.

Glossiphoniidae

In a rectangular plot…

The lat/long found in the Chicago painting seem to give you a rectangular grid that surrounds the city. I haven’t been to the actual recovery site, but it doesn’t seem that the casque was found in a rectangular plot. (I very well could be wrong)
On the other hand, the Cleveland painting doesn’t give you a clear rectanglular grid from the lat/long. But the casque was clearly recovered in a rectangular plot.
Is this the direction you were going with this comparison?

Fenix

Ah shit, I haven’t been rick rolled in quite some time!

Renovator,
I think it works more like
Step 1, list off birth stones
Step 2, cultural link
Step 3, what City has a good connection to step 2
Step 4, find a site thats fitting
Step 5, …

Unknown

Unknown:
I think it works more like

That’s fine E. You are welcome to classify the information in any manner that you see fit. As long as you are consistent, the results will speak for themselves.

Unknown

Unknown:
Et tu Thrasher?

Welcome to the D Zone.

NYCNative

I was reading one of the older posts on this thread…

burnstyle

I think the point of this thread was to point people in a direction, and let them get to the end on their own. But there just wasn’t enoug information for people to create a path… if that makes sense.
I agree though. The information and conversation was good. I wish it would continue.

The primary intent of this thread was the “AKA” part, and that is now complete. Very, very complete. Satisfyingly complete. The remainder of the spill, and it’s secondary intent, will be a deluge. A few sentences will be all it will take, and then anyone could go and solve the puzzles that remain. The timing must be right, and I must have JJP’s blessing. I’m working on that. If he won’t bite, it may go with me to my grave, and I’ll end up cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Kang

+1

You two will be the first to know.

dosethree

The image match is pretty interesting. The wiki for image 5 has that symbol down as matching to a old removed facade of a building (sullivan center 1 south state street) which is about 5 blocks away from the treasure site, but this is more attractive because it matches the start of the verse (and is still there for us to look at).
I always though that (at least for treasure map style verses like Chicago) there should be an image confirmer where you are supposed to start and perhaps at every step along the way, Byrons’ way of confirming you are on the right trail. Without the image confirmer its pretty hard to follow successive cryptic verse clues (though verse 12 seems far less cryptic than rest…). And of course, in the case of Chicago they found a mistaken verse+image match to start the trail that works even better than the real one (since the image match is so clear and it gets you right where you need to be).
They are both pretty good matches to my eye, but the wiki one is dead on. I wonder which one is correct?

Could they both be correct? Could neither be correct? Do you think it matters? What role did it play in the Chicago solution? What role does it play in your understanding of the Chicago solution today? Did it matter to the dudes that were given the information by Preiss needed to dig one up, or to Preiss in order to give them that information? Would Preiss include things if they didn’t matter?

Glossiphoniidae

Could they both be correct? Could neither be correct? Do you think it matters? What role did it play in the Chicago solution? What role does it play in your understanding of the Chicago solution today? Did it matter to the dudes that were given the information by Preiss needed to dig one up, or to Preiss in order to give them that information? Would Preiss include things if they didn’t matter?

As you try to reconcile your answers to those questions, ask yourself this…
How pissed would you be if your solve relied on it being one of the objects, and Preiss said, “No, you’re wrong. It’s this other one,” and then gave the casque to someone else. Better yet, what if it’s one on the other side of the city that you haven’t yet found?

Indeed it is a strange-disposèd time:
But men may construe things after their fashion,
Clean from the purpose of the things themselves.

Et tu Thrasher?
(God bless the internet. In 1982 I’d need to be as smart as Byron (and Thrasher) and
just know
stuff. Oh, the humanity…).

BUMP
Can’t let this fall off the front page. The author(s) have work to finish and promises to keep.

Unknown

Unknown:
The author(s) have work to finish and promises to keep.

Yes (we) do. And you’ll be happy to know that (we) are hard at work, trying our best to fulfill those promises. Wouldn’t want to disappoint our loyal fan(s).

right on point renovator
I’m a(translator) btw

Unknown

Unknown:
it should be an eye opener.

Dayum. Five big red arrows. One of them surely points to the correct dig spot. Or alligators…

Unknown

Unknown:
jayheedan1 wrote:
If it were such a highly valued thread with all the information more members must be using it; that or it’s pretty useless. I hardly see why you have to push it on every other thread. I’ve bit tongue the last few times you done it but it’s starting to make you look desperate. By your reasoning “everything you need” is in the book there’s no need to look at the slow spill thread. If the solves are all but solved, less the bury site, please post on your coveted thread. Or maybe your channeling Priess and don’t want to give out your solutions because you’ve dug up the casques then reburied them for other to find again? Idk personally it seems like the most purposely misleading thread on the secret board to me. Sorry to rant but it’s past getting old, please I’ll ask you nicely or beg you to leave that thread in that thread.

Cross posted from the St. Louis Compilation Thread:
Anyone else feel like they are being “purposefully” misled?

Euhirudinea

Cross posted from the St. Louis Compilation Thread:
Anyone else feel like they are being “purposefully” misled?

Nope, not me.

If we examine the verses – I believe they are talking about a tree – specifically an Everglades Cypress tree – one of the few trees that can actually grow in standing water. Near men with wind refer’s to the air boats that people travel the water ways in the Everglades with – they look like a skiff with a giant fan on the back essentially wind powered – “rose” the tree grew. I know everyone is hooked on the “Wind Rose” navigation device at the FOY. – but that hasn’t gotten anyone anywhere in 30 years – it might be time to expand our search horizons. Maybe the Lat/Lon numbers simply designate a state and not a tightly boundary’d box. I think we all need to keep really open minds and spend less time ridiculing and insulting one another – it’s a terrible way for adults to treat each other.

Air/”wind” boat –
http://seaexcursions.com/everglades/

Goldengate

That’s all well and good, but in every translation of the Japanese book’s “hints” section, Preiss himself described it as a marine navigation instrument — or something to that effect. There is no doubt that the Japanese translation’s unique hints hold valid clues directly from BP that had never before been discovered. In some ways, they confirm theories, in others, they challenge long held “settled” beliefs. Definitely worth listening to the special edition of the podcast and I know somebody here actually transcribed that segment.
Here is what my translator (the person in Japan who re-discovered this edition) pulled from BP’s hints:
L4 wind rose
He was said that this “wind rose” should be considered in relation to navigation technique.
(It is written in the nuance of marine navigation technique in Japanese.)

I would think the word “technique” would mean ‘a way of doing something’ and not refer to a noun/device. Thoughts?

I have listened to the Japanese podcast and I think the navigation technique is negotiating the waterways of the Everglades in a “wind powered boat”. Honestly I was not overly impressed with the Japanese translation – it all seemed kind of basic to me – and I think when he translates the verses of the casques that were already found he makes a couple of mistakes – I am pretty sure the Japanese guy said M&B are famous names – we all know they are not.

Unknown

Unknown:
I would think the word “technique” would mean ‘a way of doing something’ and not refer to a noun/device. Thoughts?

I interpreted the japanese hint as something to eliminate the ambiguity of the translation given the multiple English meanings of the word “rose”. I.e. he is telling us it isnt a kite, or something like that if we use rose as the past tense of “rise”, or some generic interpretation of something that rises with the wind.
Given the other direct verse matches, I feel it just solidifies this is specifically the FOY wind rose. Between first chapter, silver, limestone, salt, SELOY, I find it a stretch to think it would be anything else. The Japanese hint seems to lock that down pretty directly.

MERLIN

I am pretty sure the Japanese guy said M&B are famous names – we all know they are not.

What? Seriously?
The Japanese hint said they are names of famous composers. Mozart and Beethoven are chiseled in the wall of the Chicago symphony building a stones throw from the treasure ground.
Granted the Chicago crew, to my understanding, never caught that clue, interpreted it as “man and beast”, and found it as such, but it is now without a doubt Preiss crafted the verse using Mozart and Beethoven as the M and B.

MERLIN

I am pretty sure the Japanese guy said M&B are famous names – we all know they are not.

Here you go. M & B set in stone. I would say Mozart & Beethoven are quite famous. Japanese translation nailed it. Also take note of the shape encircled in green, even down to the “X” going through the center…

The way the Chicago crew used it found the casque – I believe that is what matters.

MERLIN

The way the Chicago crew used it found the casque – I believe that is what matters.

What matters is having as much additional information as possible about Preiss’ specific intentions and his method of crafting verses.
As I mentioned above, I am well aware the Chicago crew didnt require the intended interpretation of the clue to uncover the cask, but knowing for certain thst Preiss was using Mozart and Beethoven is a good piece of confirming information about this clue, if one was not inclined to believe existing information about Preiss saying it meant Mozart and Beethoven years later.

This is a testament to the power of a rock solid image match. You can completely misread the verse, but the image match keeps you in the right area.

BINGO

This is a testament to the power of a rock solid image match. You can completely misread the verse, but the image match keeps you in the right area.

Exactly. Image verifier and verse meet in one image. Solving The Secret 101…

BINGO

This is a testament to the power of a rock solid image match. You can completely misread the verse, but the image match keeps you in the right area.

So what image match are we looking for in Florida?

Scrappy929

Exactly. Image verifier and verse meet in one image. Solving The Secret 101…

So are we saying the image of the horse and bowman are completely worthless – irrelevant to the search?

MERLIN

So are we saying the image of the horse and bowman are completely worthless – irrelevant to the search?

I believe the exact opposite is being said.

MERLIN

So are we saying the image of the horse and bowman are completely worthless – irrelevant to the search?

No. It is another example of an image verifier. “And to Congress, R is known.” The Bowman is right at the corner of East
Congress
Parkway before you enter the park.

So again – what “image verifiers” should we be using for Florida”? The last verse mentions tall grass – the Everglades is described as “a sea of grass”

MERLIN

So again – what “image verifiers” should we be using for Florida”? The last verse mentions tall grass – the Everglades is described as “a sea of grass”

I can’t speak to image 6 image verifiers. Maybe something can be found in the image 6 thread or may have been mentioned on the podcast. I’ve been spending a majority of my time on image 1. I am having a hard enough time finding image verifiers for that one. Something someone mentioned recently on a thread is right on point… an image verifier will not look similar… it will be exact. We can usually find many things that look similar. Using both of the solved images, we know that we need exact, and it shouldn’t even be questioned when it is found. Good luck on image 6.