George,
Please walk into that Library and pick out any book other then the secret…then just stay there.
Thanks

Unknown

Unknown:
GCM said…I’m just a NYC retiree.

Dylan Thomas said:
“Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
Dying of the light, indeed.

Euhirudinea

Dylan Thomas said:
“Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
Dying of the light, indeed.

LMAO…Not right but super funny!

When one walks into the Fort Hamilton Library, there is a placard in the vestibule that reads…
“The origins of the Fort Hamilton Branch of the Brooklyn Public Library date back over a hundred years to the Fort Hamilton Free Library. This small collection which began with a capital of faith and five dollars, was provided for the community by Mrs. Gelston of Shore Road. In 1901 the Brooklyn Public Library adopted the Fort Hamilton collection, and soon plans were under way for a fine new building. Fort Hamilton was among the first communities to benefit from philanthropist Andrew Carnegie’s $1.6 million gift to build branch libraries in Brooklyn.”
Andrew Carnegie is best know for Carnegie Hall, one of the most prestigious venues in the world of music. Simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil?
Hard word, 3 vols, branch? Sure makes me think of a library.
The image of a lion in the woman’s robe? A lion is the symbol of a library to every New Yorker I know.

Didn’t you say
exactly
this in your other post less than a week ago?
Here:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8011

Unknown

Unknown:
I just cannot buy into the idea that getting close and lobbing a letter or a call to BP was the intended end game

Unknown

Unknown:
Besides, Andy was able to figure it out.

Again, blame BP. From the book:
“You may also send and inquiry if you believe you have determined the location of a treasure but are unable to explore it in person. If you are correct, and have successfully responded to the options below, we will retrieve the treasure casque. You will receive the treasure jewels as described in the next paragraph, but the casque shall remain the property of the Fair People.”
I actually agree with you GM, but the above paragraph, and its implications, has always troubled me a little. Especially in light of how the Chicago casque was actually recovered.
True. But the Chicago group was not, yet they still have their prizes. I guess we will know more if/when Casque #3 is recovered.

Euhirudinea

Again, blame BP. From the book:

Euhirudinea

True. But the Chicago group was not, yet they still have their prizes.

True, hard to dismiss. It’s a question of precision. How close did one need to be to get a polaroid? Was it a judgement call based on the state of the hunt and book sales or was it predefined?
Personally, I believe that Chicago was much more difficult than most people believe, especially the modifier at the end. Those guys were very close with no technology which is amazing and I do not want to appear to be taking anything away from them but you are correct, they needed assistance with the end game. You have to think having that first casque uncovered could potentially revitalize sales with the right publicity. However, that is only my opinion and what do I know…..

Unknown

Unknown:
I do not want to appear to be taking anything away from them

Me neither. They played by the rules and were rewarded accordingly. It remains to be seen whether the model for Casque #3 is the Chicago solve, or the Cleveland solve. While they are similar, they are not the same.

gManTexas,
Pardon my ignorance in regards to the Japanese clues. Could you explain what makes them so important? I’d appreciate it.
I’m thinking Andrew Carnegie. In 1905, the Fort Hamilton Library became one of Brooklyn’s first Carnegie Libraries. Carnegie being best known for Carnegie Hall.

georgecraigmanning

gManTexas,
Pardon my ignorance in regards to the Japanese clues. Could you explain what makes them so important? I’d appreciate it.
I’m thinking Andrew Carnegie. In 1905, the Fort Hamilton Library became one of Brooklyn’s first Carnegie Libraries. Carnegie being best known for Carnegie Hall.

Shortly after the release of the North American book, there was a Japanese edition produced. Last year, someone found this edition and at least 3 different people did translations. Included were a series of notes or clues from the Japanese translator of the book to give the readers there some hints. To me it is like liner notes or a curious peek into the thinking of the author. The line I provided was from the translation.
As far as I can tell, Carnegie was an industrialist and not a composer. The clue directly implicates a composer.

gManTexas,
Thanks for explaining the Japanese clues. I am curious, how did the Japanese clues line up with the Chicago & the Cleveland finds? Any revelations? Thanks.

georgecraigmanning

gManTexas,
Thanks for explaining the Japanese clues. I am curious, how did the Japanese clues line up with the Chicago & the Cleveland finds? Any revelations? Thanks.

If you do a search on here, you should be able to find a ton of threads about it, although I think a few of the main contributors have left the board, taking the info with them. The translations are reproduced here for your benefit:
V1
“The water veers” is water that is being shot up into the sky. So do you think this is a normal spring, or a fountain, what do you think?
“Small of scale” – small in English obviously means small, but what does scale mean? In Japan, we have one thing that uses the English word scale, called “scale model”. (The hint seems to be that it’s referring to relative size; not many Japanese people will know what “scale” is.)
“There’s the spout” – this is referring to “The water veers”.
V2
“Fills the afternoon hours” – you can translate this directly as filling like a cup, but there’s a more direct and simple way. (“I think this is pointing towards a translation glitch…I’m not seeing any real big hints”.)
V3
The editor told me that if I gave you any hint at all, it would immediately solve the riddle.
V4
“Free speech” – (Translation guide)
“Couplet” – Shakespeare used these
“Columns” – The editor told me that these columns are made out of stone. What is the most famous stone column structure in the world?
V5
“Lane” – When you translate this directly it refers to a small road, but Lane in this context is a proper noun. Is it a name of a mountain/river/town or…? (I’m guessing it’s not one of these.)
“Weight and roots” – He (the editor) says that you should think about construction while reading this (construction of buildings, construction work).
“Wingless bird” – if you translate it directly, it means “bird without wings”. But, for instance, “iron horse” is motorcycle…(apparently he’s trying to show it’s not a literal bird without wings.) You could think of what a wingless bird could refer to. In Japan, you can see this thing very easily (as also in other places; not a special Japanese thing).
V6
“Men of tales and tunes” – What kind of men are these? The word “Romance” is there, but do not think of it literally. (The word “Romance” in Europe in the Middle Ages had a different meaning.)
“The birth of a century” – referring to a specific century’s birth; which one…?
“May 1913” – Open up your history textbook to May 1913 – what happened?
“Between two arms extended” – The arm that it is talking about; what angle you put it in began (?) It is difficult to give a hint, but the bar needs to be something that can bind.
“White House” – is it the home of the American President, or just a house that is white…?
V7
“Sweet” generally means sweet as in taste, but you shouldn’t really be concentrating on the taste because the the air can feel sweet; think of how air can be sweet. (Apparently air is important to this “sweet” meaning.)
“High post” – This post is made out of wood.
“Education and justice” – The editor told me that if you think of “can be seen not far” and add something onto it and think hard about it, it becomes easier to understand…it’s not clear what he’s getting at. (Audio indistinct.)
“Sounds from the sky” – The sound of a bird/plane/wind…there are also sounds that are not registered by human ears. (Audio indistinct.)
“Twain” – (Probably Mark Twain.)
V8
“The three stories of Mitchell” The word “stories” has a special meaning. Is it referring to bedtime stories or a three-story-building…? (Preiss apparently indicated it’s a building.)
“The beating of the world” – pull up an English dictionary and look somewhere around “drum” to find the name of a person.
“Step on nature, cast in copper” – He said that you should think of a leaf, but what does a leaf mean…? (“You have to make another step.”)
“Tall proud fifth” – maybe it’s referring to a tree – I think it means tree. (It sounds like he was weighing up Preiss’ reactions to different suggestions.)
V9
“Wind rose” is referring to, or related to, a nautical manoeuvre.
V10
“Whirring sound” – What kind of things make this sound…bug/bee/propeller. It seems as though it’s referring to something that runs on the land (not flying). It needs the power of humans to run. (Spinning pedals or something; like a bicycle.)
“Him of Hard words” – you would think it’s referring to a writer, but it’s difficult to find out who. When I asked Mr Preiss, he answered me with a riddle. “In order to arrive at this person, you must play with words, and the start is chicken.”
“Rhapsodic man” – I made a poor translation as “a man of epics”, however, from the word “rhapsodic”, think of a famous song, then you will know that the rhapsodic man is the man who made that song.
V11
“Octave” – Preiss said that Octave is a proper noun.
“To achieve by dauntless” – this is a direct quote from a book.
V12
“M and B” – These are the initials of two people. I asked Mr Preiss, what do they do, and he said both of them are very famous song composers.
“Congress” – When I asked Mr Preiss, he said that this is a proper noun.
“R / L” – This R and L are also referring to people. According to Preiss, R and L refer to one person, and it’s a critical politician.
“Rumble” is the sound of rumbling, what does that mean…?
“Brush” – Brush said something that made me think it was referring to a painting
“Hush” – “Quiet” (audio indistinct).

gManTexas,
Thank you so much. A riddle with chicken? Boy, I’ll be thinking about that for a while.

Unknown

Unknown:
“Couplet” – Shakespeare used these

Unknown

Unknown:
“Columns” – The editor told me that these columns are made out of stone. What is the most famous stone column structure in the world?

Unknown

Unknown:
“M and B” – These are the initials of two people. I asked Mr Preiss, what do they do, and he said both of them are very famous song composers.

Unknown

Unknown:
“Congress” – When I asked Mr Preiss, he said that this is a proper noun.

Unknown

Unknown:
“R / L” – This R and L are also referring to people. According to Preiss, R and L refer to one person, and it’s a critical politician.

Unknown

Unknown:
“Rumble” is the sound of rumbling, what does that mean…?

Unknown

Unknown:
“Brush” – Brush said something that made me think it was referring to a painting

Unknown

Unknown:
“Hush” – “Quiet” (audio indistinct).

You can view whiterabbits transcript here
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7258&start=255#p145285
or listen to the podcast on the Japanese translations
https://12treasures.com/
V4, Cleveland
Not that useful, as it refers to pindar in the previously line and written on the wall, and that line is pretty extraneous once you’ve found the wall in cleveland, and the names are so unique that confirming pindar=poet is not that useful. Might be for translation clarification
Confirming the columns are stone and hinting at the parthenon seems pretty useful considering the greek garden column location for the casque. So so far so good for japenese hints being somewhat useful
V12 – Chicago
This is a very useful hint as it confirms the starting location at Chicago Symphony Orchestra and would help you find it, if you hadn’t.
Head towards congress street, pretty useful hint
Okay so this is where it weird. It might have been an issue with the translator. R&L def don’t refer to one person, but they probably refer to different politicians – the Lincoln statue and Roosevelt university, but located on congress
The railroad is right next to the casque location
Art institute is nearby, pretty useful hint for a vague clue
shrug

dosethree,
Thanks.

Just a thought…
Riddle?
So, I’m standing at the tip of Fort Hamilton Triangle.
I play with the words, hard word, 3 vols, branch…
Chicken? “Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side.”
I cross the road, 4th Avenue to get to the other side. The crosswalk happens to be exactly 22 steps, and I’m looking a a 4ft iron V. The other side of the road is the Fort Hamilton Library. The V is a support to the gate surrounding the library.
Only thing bothering me is that my 22 steps are west, not east.
Thoughts?

dosethree

Okay so this is where it weird. It might have been an issue with the translator. R&L def don’t refer to one person, but they probably refer to different politicians – the Lincoln statue and Roosevelt university, but located on congress

I don’t think he was saying they are the same person. They were both President, a critical politician.

Unknown

Unknown:
shrug

Indeed. The thing that most of these clues have in common is that they are helpful after the fact. BP was a master of mis-direction, so I’m inclinded to think that these clues are yet another example of something he said that sounds good, but in reality isn’t much help at all. At least not while you are trying to solve the puzzle.
Your mileage may vary.

Dominick,
Sorry, I was referring to verse 10 NYC

georgecraigmanning

Just a thought…
Riddle?
So, I’m standing at the tip of Fort Hamilton Triangle.
I play with the words, hard word, 3 vols, branch…
Chicken? “Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side.”
I cross the road, 4th Avenue to get to the other side. The crosswalk happens to be exactly 22 steps, and I’m looking a a 4ft iron V. The other side of the road is the Fort Hamilton Library. The V is a support to the gate surrounding the library.
Only thing bothering me is that my 22 steps are west, not east.
Thoughts?

Thoughts? HMMM…
You are in the wrong location and are stubbornly trying to make things fit that do not. Tragedy is that you believe you are right even though the evidence proves otherwise.
Expand your range and think outside your box, instead of making multiple threads with the same exact information that has obviously not even been properly researched.

The Japanese Clue is as follows:
“Rhapsodic man” – I made a poor translation as “a man of epics”, however, from the word “rhapsodic”, think of a famous song, then you will know that the rhapsodic man is the man who made that song.
This has to be one the most straightforward references in the clues. If not Gershwin, then who?

dosethree

You can view whiterabbits transcript here
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7258&start=255#p145285
or listen to the podcast on the Japanese translations
https://12treasures.com/
V4, Cleveland
Not that useful, as it refers to pindar in the previously line and written on the wall, and that line is pretty extraneous once you’ve found the wall in cleveland, and the names are so unique that confirming pindar=poet is not that useful. Might be for translation clarification

I completely disagree with this assumption that has been floating around for years that the two lines in Verse 4 are repetitious:
Socrates, Pindar, Apelles
Free speech, couplet, birch
The Socrates line are the names on the Pylon Wall, and they are a map to the casque on the other side of the wall.
The Free speech line are objects you see near the Greek Garden.
Free speech is for the Goethe–Schiller Monument
couplet is for the Shakespeare bust
birch is for a fantastic birch tree in between the German and British Gardens

Unknown

Unknown:
I completely disagree with this assumption that has been floating around for years

Blame BP:
4. From the Cleveland pic, he said that we got all of the clues. “Birch” referred to a birch tree that had been there. “Couplet” had referred to a nearby poem (although Andy and I do not recall any nearby). “Free speech” refers to Socrates.
Assuming the re-telling is accurate, and contrary to another popular assumption, I have no reason to believe that it’s not, that’s two out of three. Then there is this:
5. B.Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. He also said that the pages following the verses (which make up the bulk of the book) have NO connection with the puzzles, and contain no additional clues.
But that really belongs in the other thread.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1126&p=15954&hilit=deposit#p15954

Anybody in favor of making the original verse and image threads sticky? IMO, it may keep this section of the forum a bit more organized and on track.

Euhirudinea

Blame BP:
4. From the Cleveland pic, he said that we got all of the clues. “Birch” referred to a birch tree that had been there. “Couplet” had referred to a nearby poem (although Andy and I do not recall any nearby). “Free speech” refers to Socrates.
Assuming the re-telling is accurate, and contrary to another popular assumption, I have no reason to believe that it’s not, that’s two out of three. Then there is this:
5. B.Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. He also said that the pages following the verses (which make up the bulk of the book) have NO connection with the puzzles, and contain no additional clues.
But that really belongs in the other thread.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1126&p=15954&hilit=deposit#p15954

Comme ci, comme ça

Unknown

Unknown:
The names on the Pylon Wall were a dead giveaway and they found the casque by some trial and error and a LOT of digging.

There would have been a lot less digging in 1983, and practically none at all if Johann had thought to mail in his solution instead of generously sharing it with the Forum before he had a chance to explore it fully.

Euhirudinea

There would have been a lot less digging in 1983, and practically none at all if Johann had thought to mail in his solution instead of generously sharing it with the Forum before he had a chance to explore it fully.

Johann, like Brian, did not understand the puzzle modifier. I just cannot buy into the idea that getting close and lobbing a letter or a call to BP was the intended end game. It feels like a cop out excuse for people who haven’t fully solved the puzzle.
Besides, Andy was able to figure it out.

Unknown

Unknown:
Comme ci, comme ça

A non sequitur in French is still a non sequitur.

Euhirudinea

A non sequitur in French is still a non sequitur.

While I have respect for the guys that dug up the Cleveland casque, there are a couple of points here.
The conversation between the guys and BP occurred 23 years after the publication of the book. That’s a lot of water under the bridge.
I do not believe that the guys actually worked out most of the puzzle. The names on the Pylon Wall were a dead giveaway and they found the casque by some trial and error and a LOT of digging.

gManTexas

While I have respect for the guys that dug up the Cleveland casque, there are a couple of points here.
The conversation between the guys and BP occurred 23 years after the publication of the book. That’s a lot of water under the bridge.
I do not believe that the guys actually worked out most of the puzzle. The names on the Pylon Wall were a dead giveaway and they found the casque by some trial and error and a LOT of digging.

Let’s be a little real here Gman. If you had no previous knowledge of the casque’s location, do you really think you could have dug 1 small hole and found it? I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy the Greek names being a clear and simple map to the dig spot. Hindsight analysis is always more accurate.