forest_blight

…it’s always possible we didn’t go deep enough, or that we missed it by a few inches.

Been thinking a lot about this lately…do we really think that 1.5-2′ down would not be deep enough to see/feel the box? How about in different (warmer/colder locations)?
Missing the box altogether is another issue in itself…

I am not sure if it is safe to get in the water, but I can’t believe that I am the only one that is happy that a few of you long-termers are posting comments this week. Sane comments, schizophrenic comments, what you had for lunch comments are better than logging into the dead zone. And since I am convinced that the only way to find other casques is to understand BP’s methodology, I love reading anyone’s ideas to that prompts others to think and respond. So Thanks!
I feel like I am the new kid at school asking if I can sit down at the popular kid’s lunch table. (Of course, this is a school where the popular kids are all in the math and science club, so ya’ll are a little intimidating.) But if I may ask, is there a list of all the places where people have dug and come up empty handed. I have not seen that kind of thread. Just wondering if I have missed it. It would be helpful if there was one.

Method: find examples to demonstrate how the author and artist create words and pictures.
Possible result one: eliminate their usual styles and assume the anomalies are due to puzzle constraints.
Possible result two: assume their usual styles are exactly how they would present puzzle clues.
I don’t think we can be certain of either outcome without an external example of a different puzzle. We really don’t know how either the author or the artist might or might not intensify or alter their non-puzzle styles in service of a specific puzzle goal. The Secret was a one-off, for both of them, and I’m afraid we’re taking stabs in the dark in either direction with such analysis.
But if you’re asking my opinion, I agree that we can say that artistic flourishes (like blue glowing edges) are not specific clues. In the same fashion, and only if you want my opinion, the author’s appreciation for obscure definitions would not be how he would write a puzzle hunt meant to be simple and fun and quickly solved, precisely because he would know just how obscure those unusual readings would be.

There is no popular kid’s table here — we’re all unpopular. Anyway, “On the internet nobody knows you’re a dog” (–Peter Steiner).
There are nearly 2 x 10^14 square feet in Canada and the contiguous 48. We’ve dug up a few of those, but it’s always possible we didn’t go deep enough, or that we missed it by a few inches. So I’m not ruling out anything (except Juneau Park in Milwaukee — that’s just crazy talk!).

Goonie68

After a nudge from another hunter to go down a path or look at a new way to view the puzzle, I have a theory about the 12 tribes of Israel and how it relates to the Secret. The theory introduces the tribes and links to the puzzle. I am sharing this in hopes that it might bring new ideas and a different approach in solving these puzzles. I suspect that the tribes play apart in the final resting area of the casque. With the thanks to GManTexas for helping with this theory.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wh7seJZ8T-Kd4w_v7_fYsN9FvKKPyreURQi6cHfJklo/edit?usp=drivesdk

I actually believe you nailed this 100% and you described it in a totally logical and readable way.
Thanks!

maltedfalcon

I actually believe you nailed this 100% and you described it in a totally logical and readable way.
Thanks!

Thank you means a lot!

decibalnyc

I am expanding on what became a more general post (after 3 sentences) than a direct response to Decibal(s image), and not necessarily Image 4 in the Image 4 thread, so I moved it here.
What about Ohio? Kidding. This is good stuff.
Had we not known this image was linked with Verse 4, and didn’t know Image 8 was Verse 1, I think Verse 4 would possibly get you to think of Image 8. “Seek the Columns for your search”. I’ve mentioned this about the depth of Preiss’ trickery in prior posts, but if we abide by the current consensus, he’s giving similar red herrings by burying a treasure in Charleston and then giving us a verse with the word “Citadel”.
If I may digress for a moment before I move on to my point about using the word “citadel”, can I ask if the elite cadre that you are a part of, DecibalNYC, is operating under the framework of what is generally termed the “consensus” Image/Verse pairs?
Back to Citadel, though. Think about it for a second. The Citadel is a pretty iconic institution for locals in Charleston, but I don’t know how many people in 1980, or now for that matter, would know that The Citadel is in Charleston. If you’re a local/east coast southerner, or a student of military history, yes, and reading the book for the first time, I think you would pick up on that word and make the connection. At that point, you still have 12 images to look at to try and find one that fits into Charleston. It took a lot of work to find the matches and connections that we just take for granted in Image 2 that makes it unquestionably Charleston. If you’re picking up the book for the first time in the 80’s, I think it’s important to see what a big red herring this is if you’re in the 1980’s and Verse 5 isn’t really Charleston. It would be an extremely calculated decision on Preiss’ part to bury a cask in the city that is home to the CItadel and use that word in a verse that isn’t connected to Charleston. There are many synonyms for “citadel” that could have been used, and many other cities than Charleston to bury a cask. Definitely a deliberate choice.
(Side note from this specific post but something I’d enjoy discussing: The last lines of each clue and their importance. We have 2 solved where we know One being an image/verse connection in Verse 4’s “seek the column”, and from someone on the treasure ground a “backward” clue, in the order the directions are given. One being nearby landmarks that are also a “backward” clue with “Seek the Sounds..”, which are also not literal sounds like what we assume are literal sounds in other verses where he mentions sounds. But yet the “still hear the honking” in Verse 9 is indeed a literal sound, but not the sound of a car horn like one would probably think at face value. Regardless, in Chicago and Cleveland, the specific dig spot is earlier in the verse. The last lines are more of a “you’re getting very hot” type line. Verse 10, same thing. We know that the “Dauntless” portion of verse 11 is off a nearby monument, another “backward” clue. Rambling on this point and this isn’t the main topic of this post, but something I’d like to discuss)
My original point was referring to the deception about “seek the columns” which is both a treasure ground clue but also is a link in the verse to a specific image, but leaves it up in the air about which image, specifically, until you connect the dots. I’d appreciate any input.
In terms of words in the verses that can link you to images at face value:
“Land Near the Window”
“Seek the columns for your search”
“Twice as many east steps as the hour”
“Fence and fixture central too” ?
The more speculative:
“At stone wall’s door” – The porticullis in Image 1
“As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours” – I’ve brought this up before, maybe nothing, but the theatrical mask covers (fills) the afternoon hours in Image 7

I think how one feels about the word “citadel” depends on the context they’re most familiar with. I’m most familiar with the SC Citadel because of college sports. But without that, I’m not sure that I’d associate the word with the military college if I were familiar with the word in another context. BP, being a teacher and probably a student of history, may have come across “citadel” in its fortress context, and associated it more with that.
Or it could be a literary reference.
Are you considering a theory that links that verse to Charleston?
Regarding the “afternoon hours” on the clock, the ones covered by the mask in Image 7 are not afternoon hours. “Afternoon” is typically 12-5pm. 6-8am is morning, and 6-8pm is evening.

Frisco

Regarding the “afternoon hours” on the clock, the ones covered by the mask in Image 7 are not afternoon hours. “Afternoon” is typically 12-5pm. 6-8am is morning, and 6-8pm is evening.

And that was the exact same shut out I got when I suggested this as a connection before. I won’t pitch it again.

Merlot Brougham

And that was the exact same shut out I got when I suggested this as a connection before. I like it, but I won’t pitch it again.

Merlot Brougham

(“Look at these Plebes floundering around like beached fish. By the way what do you think of the Birds on the Ellis Island Ferry Building that none of us introduced into the hunt?” – The Super Secret Secret Society)
What date is your plane flight booked for you son of a gun?
e: changed my giant crescendo to “son of a gun” because of the women and children reading this thread, but before I did it was a reference to one’s familial coitus.

TBD.
I’m not against connecting the images to the verses in some way, I just can’t figure out how 6pm in any way constitutes the afternoon. :p
I think a better solution for how Image 7 connects to Verse 2 is “In the middle of 21”. Across the street from Gallier Hall (on the block in the middle of 21 blocks of Lafayette Ave.) is the boy on the McDonogh statue. In Image 7, the tumor on clock boy’s butt creates the number “2” in the negative space, and his arm forms the “1”.
21 in the verse, 21 in the image.

I agree with Kalessin and Goonie. In my limited research, I couldn’t find any historically confirmed matches between the tribes, birthstones, months, zodiac. It’s originating from the tribes most probably, but there are too many conflicting theories to pinpoint the matches exactly. So I don’t think BP would have presumed and connected his puzzles that way either. I do think, however, he has hints to each tribe in each puzzle. But I don’t think, for example Puzzle 1 (SF) would have to be attributed to the first born son, Rueben, nor the 6th born son, Naphtali because SF is June and the pearl. Even in the Bible, the order of the tribes gets a bit grey.
The Bible lists the Tribes’ blessings in Genisis 49 I think. So those should be considered first. But then also their flags and symbols should be considered as well. For instance, Dan’s blessing was justice, but his flag may have been a snake (obviously SF comes to mind). Gad for Houston as his blessing was good fortune, but his symbol is a tent. And I kind of like Simeon for Roanoke island because his blessing was swords and violence, but his symbol was a gate.
Anyway, if I had to guess, I think Goonie was right with his analysis of what the Tribes mean to the puzzles. It’s a supportive story, but also, hints in each puzzle as well. We just have to find the correct match ups.

Dang, I just took pictures in my book of nice summaries of the tribes but I can’t seem to attach them here. If anyone would like to see them, just pm me on Facebook I guess.

leighanny

I agree with Kalessin and Goonie. In my limited research, I couldn’t find any historically confirmed matches between the tribes, birthstones, months, zodiac. It’s originating from the tribes most probably, but there are too many conflicting theories to pinpoint the matches exactly. So I don’t think BP would have presumed and connected his puzzles that way either. I do think, however, he has hints to each tribe in each puzzle. But I don’t think, for example Puzzle 1 (SF) would have to be attributed to the first born son, Rueben, nor the 6th born son, Naphtali because SF is June and the pearl. Even in the Bible, the order of the tribes gets a bit grey.
The Bible lists the Tribes’ blessings in Genisis 49 I think. So those should be considered first. But then also their flags and symbols should be considered as well. For instance, Dan’s blessing was justice, but his flag may have been a snake (obviously SF comes to mind). Gad for Houston as his blessing was good fortune, but his symbol is a tent. And I kind of like Simeon for Roanoke island because his blessing was swords and violence, but his symbol was a gate.
Anyway, if I had to guess, I think Goonie was right with his analysis of what the Tribes mean to the puzzles. It’s a supportive story, but also, hints in each puzzle as well. We just have to find the correct match ups.

I like having more eyes on this theory, but we did spent quite a bit of time on this and matching the characteristics and Coats of Arms of each of the 12 Tribes to the various images, verses and cities. You mention Gad and Houston, in some of the Coats it is depicted as three tents, we have very similar imagery in the Houston Image with the three dunes.
If you can upload your stuff to the cloud, you can then link it here, rather than Facebook. I’d be interested in seeing your analysis.

gManTexas

I like having more eyes on this theory, but we did spent quite a bit of time on this and matching the characteristics and Coats of Arms of each of the 12 Tribes to the various images, verses and cities. You mention Gad and Houston, in some of the Coats it is depicted as three tents, we have very similar imagery in the Houston Image with the three dunes.
If you can upload your stuff to the cloud, you can then link it here, rather than Facebook. I’d be interested in seeing your analysis.

Hey Gman…I guess that was point about Genisis 49. There will be ambiguity and various symbols and meanings with the Tribes. So, I’m suggesting the Bible might be the best place to go for information. (Which I realize you all would have done.) I’m agreeing with you on Houston, just saying we will all find various interpretations and that might get tricky. That’s why I think the Bible is the safest bet on what BP would have used as his main source. I’m referencing the the Rose Bible analysis books. I use their interpretations loosely.
So how do I do the cloud thing?

leighanny

Hey Gman…I guess that was point about Genisis 49. There will be ambiguity and various symbols and meanings with the Tribes. So, I’m suggesting the Bible might be the best place to go for information. (Which I realize you all would have done.) I’m agreeing with you on Houston, just saying we will all find various interpretations and that might get tricky. That’s why I think the Bible is the safest bet on what BP would have used as his main source. I’m referencing the the Rose Bible analysis books. I use their interpretations loosely.
So how do I do the cloud thing?

If you have an account on Google Drive or Dropbox, you can use those services. If it is just images then you can use Imgr, Flickr or some other images sharing service.
Once you have logged into an account, upload your content. If you are sharing multiple items, maybe create a folder to put them in. Once this is done, you can right click or find the share button depending on the service. That link, or series of links can then be pasted into a post on here.

Thanks Gman and Goonie for the tips. Hopefully some of this info will prove helpful.
https://ibb.co/LpyKFrg
https://ibb.co/V3HCwtP
https://ibb.co/kmHGW14
https://ibb.co/7QPBm4c
https://ibb.co/FVvZzKL
https://ibb.co/7gMnQTd
https://ibb.co/LPVHYyc
https://ibb.co/RP5qwhx
https://ibb.co/WprK653
https://ibb.co/xXkyq48
https://ibb.co/Xxq3ZLX
https://ibb.co/59yXCwF
https://ibb.co/dMtFTSS
https://ibb.co/F8xxr3C

leighanny

Thanks Gman and Goonie for the tips. Hopefully some of this info will prove helpful.
https://ibb.co/LpyKFrg
https://ibb.co/V3HCwtP
https://ibb.co/kmHGW14
https://ibb.co/7QPBm4c
https://ibb.co/FVvZzKL
https://ibb.co/7gMnQTd
https://ibb.co/LPVHYyc
https://ibb.co/RP5qwhx
https://ibb.co/WprK653
https://ibb.co/xXkyq48
https://ibb.co/Xxq3ZLX
https://ibb.co/59yXCwF
https://ibb.co/dMtFTSS
https://ibb.co/F8xxr3C

This is wonderful stuff, thanks so much for sharing!
-gMan

No problem. I have 5 of the Rose Bible books from my local library a couple weeks ago. They are also available on Amazon. Tons of info in them.

gManTexas

Some of the clues may be in the Image as well.

I can’t say most, but some are “universal” as well

Durian

GMan, thanks for putting this together. Agree or disagree, I appreciate the amount of work involved, and it’s a good stimulus for conversation and thought….
So are you saying in SF, for instance, that we should physically start the puzzle at Russian Hill Park, and
then
use the verses to lead to the casque?
And are we also to presume the casques are in the parks the overlays point to? In other words, are you hypothesizing that the verses for each puzzle are self-contained within the confines of the identified parks?

Thanks. Short answer, yes. You should be able to solve the verse for the given location, although not all lines may apply.
They may not pertain to the confines of the park though. Some of the items or objects may be near the park.
EDIT: Some of the clues may be in the Image as well.

gManTexas

Do you have a source for this statement?

Most people seem to discard or manipulate this statement because it does not align with how they interpret the difficulty of the puzzles. I’ve always taken it at face value. Why would Byron need to twist this? He believed that he created easier puzzles for the lesser valued gems.

BINGO

The Japanese hints for Boston certainly support this notion.

Not exactly. The Japanese hints state – ….if I gave you any hint at all, it will immediately solve the riddle….
Let’s examine that statement. There is no mention of the Boston puzzle being easier or simpler. I see two potential reasons for the statement.
1. There is a difficult method, that once understood, will allow you to easily decipher the clues.
2. Hints are based on keywords listed in the Japanese book. There is no good way to hint at the keywords without giving away the answer to one of them.

Golden,
Yes, I have taken this into account and it is discussed in my Methodology document.
For the purpose of discussion here, I agree that an emerald should be expensive and dictate the difficulty of the puzzle. It may have been a case where BP created this narrative and then was stuck with how it laid out, even though the Image and Verse are very simplistic.
If I recall, the guys in Chicago that found the casque got the gem appraised at around $1,200 – 1,500.

Glad I could clear that up and you agree. So back to the original question. Why did Byron believe that Cleveland and Chicago would not be the simplest puzzles to solve?

GoldenMartyr

Glad I could clear that up and you agree. So back to the original question. Why did Byron believe that Cleveland and Chicago would not be the simplest puzzles to solve?

I wouldn’t say that exactly. Making a general statement about the difficultly is not the same as saying “these two puzzles are not simple”.
In terms of the gems, Cleveland was supposed to an aquamarine, one of the least expensive gems on the list. So we can throw that out.
For Chicago, like I said, I believe that he either painted himself into a corner with the narrative for Chicago, or he just didn’t have time on the ground. Honestly, it feels like he made a trip there, stayed in a hotel nearby and hurried to bury the thing and make a verse about it.
There is also the possibility that they ran out of time and had to publish the book. To me, this whole endeavor was a huge undertaking and I’m sure it was difficult to pull it all together within a reasonable time frame.

gManTexas

For Chicago, like I said, I believe that he either painted himself into a corner with the narrative for Chicago, or he just didn’t have time on the ground. Honestly, it feels like he made a trip there, stayed in a hotel nearby and hurried to bury the thing and make a verse about it.
There is also the possibility that they ran out of time and had to publish the book. To me, this whole endeavor was a huge undertaking and I’m sure it was difficult to pull it all together within a reasonable time frame.

(Preiss put a side note in the instructions in case a reader figures out the correct location but is unable to retrieve the treasure for some reason. He even put it in parenthesis – like this.) He also included a form to fill out if you thought you were close but didn’t find anything. In a way, this is the insurance policy in case one or more treasures were not actually put in place in time. That could be why they haven’t been found.

UnprovenFact

(Preiss put a side note in the instructions in case a reader figures out the correct location but is unable to retrieve the treasure for some reason. He even put it in parenthesis – like this.) In a way, this is the insurance policy in case one or more treasures were not actually put in place in time. That could be why they haven’t been found.

You just stepped into conspiracy theory territory. BP was alive for 23 years beyond the publication of the book.

gManTexas

You just stepped into conspiracy theory territory. BP was alive for 23 years beyond the publication of the book.

…And if anytime in those 23 years a casque had finally been located where others had previously dug and turned up nothing, there would have been some question as to the rightful owner of the treasure (and braggin’ rights). Not to mention the backlash towards everyone involved in the book. It would have been a huge letdown to know there were never buried treasures to begin with. So IF a treasure was not in place at the time the book was published, it would have been better to leave it that way than to go bury it later. IMO, of course.

gManTexas

I wouldn’t say that exactly. Making a general statement about the difficultly is not the same as saying “these two puzzles are not simple”.
In terms of the gems, Cleveland was supposed to an aquamarine, one of the least expensive gems on the list. So we can throw that out.
For Chicago, like I said, I believe that he either painted himself into a corner with the narrative for Chicago, or he just didn’t have time on the ground. Honestly, it feels like he made a trip there, stayed in a hotel nearby and hurried to bury the thing and make a verse about it.
There is also the possibility that they ran out of time and had to publish the book. To me, this whole endeavor was a huge undertaking and I’m sure it was difficult to pull it all together within a reasonable time frame.

I did say simplest and not simple. I’m not willing to make any assumptions regarding time invested in each puzzle or even the possibility that time ran out. Both ideas may be valid but we are discussing methodology. A better question may be why did JJP believe Cleveland and Chicago were the simplest?(sorry, no supporting documents here, just hearsay over the years)
I look at it this way. Many people have a higher capacity to process visuals. I may be generalizing but artists could fall into this category. Many of The Secret hunters also fall into this category. Just look at all of the things they find in the paintings.
Byron wrote the verses and clearly had a great love of prose. So this begs the question, what was simple to Byron? Puzzle difficulty is somewhat subjective but attempting to understand what Byron may believe is simple based on what he created could lend some level of understanding to the statement he made regarding the value of the gems having a correlation with the difficulty of their puzzles.

UnprovenFact

(Preiss put a side note in the instructions in case a reader figures out the correct location but is unable to retrieve the treasure for some reason. He even put it in parenthesis – like this.) He also included a form to fill out if you thought you were close but didn’t find anything. In a way, this is the insurance policy in case one or more treasures were not actually put in place in time. That could be why they haven’t been found.

This is an inclusion tactic which broadened their target market. The ultimate goal was to sell books. Less limitations equal more potential sales.

GoldenMartyr

I did say simplest and not simple. I’m not willing to make any assumptions regarding time invested in each puzzle or even the possibility that time ran out. Both ideas may be valid but we are discussing methodology. A better question may be why did JJP believe Cleveland and Chicago were the simplest?(sorry, no supporting documents here, just hearsay over the years)
I look at it this way. Many people have a higher capacity to process visuals. I may be generalizing but artists could fall into this category. Many of The Secret hunters also fall into this category. Just look at all of the things they find in the paintings.
Byron wrote the verses and clearly had a great love of prose. So this begs the question, what was simple to Byron? Puzzle difficulty is somewhat subjective but attempting to understand what Byron may believe is simple based on what he created could lend some level of understanding to the statement he made regarding the value of the gems having a correlation with the difficulty of their puzzles.

I don’t know if we can truly answer these questions, and even if he was alive today, would he spill the beans?
The amount of time spent on each puzzle is a valid question, and it is somewhat elementary to posit which puzzles were very involved, even if they are rather simple. Even if we have to work backwards from the most involved puzzles.
Milwaukee is a great example of a relatively well researched and obscure clue laden puzzle, even though the walk through is more or less straightforward. The prize for Milwaukee is an Amethyst. It is one of the cheapest gems on the list.
I would argue that Chicago was infinitively easier from both a scale and visual perspective. Everything in that puzzle is within a couple block radius and well defined. Milwaukee is a long slog.

Preiss lived and grew up in NYC, he wouldn’t need to spend much time to create a puzzle there. It has been speculated that Palencar and the writers may have taken part in the puzzles for their respective home base. To me, this makes perfect sense when thinking about time, budget and general efficiency for the project.
As far as the length of the “walking path” from iconic image to casque site, there are people who simply don’t believe that it needs to be a walking path at all. I’m not necessarily one of them, but both Cleveland and Chicago were “recovered” without the need to start at the water tower or the terminal tower. If Milwaukee’s city hall wasn’t in the image, would we be so convinced that it was actually in Milwaukee? It seems that they all play more of a role as the city confirmer rather than the beginning of the path. To me, more potential evidence that a local to the area (during the time period) would have an advantage.

GoldenMartyr

This is an inclusion tactic which broadened their target market. The ultimate goal was to sell books. Less limitations equal more potential sales.

Obviously the goal was to sell books… that is the goal for any author, publisher, company, etc. More publicity equals (hopefully) more sales. So it would need to be marketed as widely as possible. The broadest market is the world. However, worldwide, not everyone will have the resources to physically go to the twelve chosen treasure cities in North America. So, if the world is my market, and I want every reader to have an equal opportunity to claim a treasure, I would include a form and instructions for anyone who thinks they know the correct location but are unable to personally dig up a treasure. Am I correct? And IF the intent is to make it possible for anyone (worldwide) to claim a treasure, then it would seem that each puzzle could potentially be solved without ever leaving home. In that case, we are back to going to the local library and not necessarily a strictly boots-on-the-ground approach. Although, I would think some of the clues would be missed if one couldn’t get to the specific site. This may have been covered already, but do we know if the book was ever sold without the treasure hunt part included?

UnprovenFact

Obviously the goal was to sell books… that is the goal for any author, publisher, company, etc. More publicity equals (hopefully) more sales. So it would need to be marketed as widely as possible. The broadest market is the world. However, worldwide, not everyone will have the resources to physically go to the twelve chosen treasure cities in North America. So, if the world is my market, and I want every reader to have an equal opportunity to claim a treasure, I would include a form and instructions for anyone who thinks they know the correct location but are unable to personally dig up a treasure. Am I correct? And IF the intent is to make it possible for anyone (worldwide) to claim a treasure, then it would seem that each puzzle could potentially be solved without ever leaving home. In that case, we are back to going to the local library and not necessarily a strictly boots-on-the-ground approach. Although, I would think some of the clues would be missed if one couldn’t get to the specific site. This may have been covered already, but do we know if the book was ever sold without the treasure hunt part included?

I think it would have been tough to not be on-site and that holds true for today. If for no other reason, to look at the scale and see the clues. The way I interpreted the claim form in the book is two fold.
1. We include everyone. This would also be older people who maybe had knowledge but not the inclination or faculties to go dig. The Chicago guys got some recommendations from uncles or something along those lines.
2. The searcher get to the area and either choses not to dig because they are skittish, not capable, or they don’t have the tools. In 1982 we didn’t just run to the hardware store and buy tools whenever we wanted.
So, you could submit the form and see if the publisher would give you the golden ticket. In the case of Chicago, he assisted the guys.
In 1982, it would have been difficult to fully decipher these puzzles remotely. Not impossible, with enough research and maybe some phone calls, but tough. I think the idea of this being a worldwide accessible hunt is a stretch. In fact, other than marketing to some well heeled travelers, I am surprised that there was a Japanese edition of the book.

UnprovenFact

Obviously the goal was to sell books…

I was simply responding to your suggestion that the reason the form, etc. may have been included because some of the casques were not in the ground. Sorry, no way….

GoldenMartyr

Not exactly. The Japanese hints state – ….if I gave you any hint at all, it will immediately solve the riddle….
Let’s examine that statement. There is no mention of the Boston puzzle being easier or simpler. I see two potential reasons for the statement.
1. There is a difficult method, that once understood, will allow you to easily decipher the clues.
2. Hints are based on keywords listed in the Japanese book. There is no good way to hint at the keywords without giving away the answer to one of them.

Please stop trying to hurt my feelings. That hint is my only hope that is still intact.

gManTexas

In 1982 we didn’t just run to the hardware store and buy tools whenever we wanted.

That’s because the garage was already full of tools.
They were made by Craftsman, Stanley and True-Temper and they lasted for decades
and we walked to our casque sites (uphill both ways) in 10 foot drifts of snow.

BINGO

As far as the length of the “walking path” from iconic image to casque site, there are people who simply don’t believe that it needs to be a walking path at all.

Well I came up with the theory and even I don’t think “walking path” is accurate. I said there is a path from an iconic image in the painting to the first spot in the verse.
it seems to be straight or only have a few turns. But outside of a method for identifying the casque site area, I don’t think there really is any point in actually trying to
walk the path.
This shows true in Chicago and Cleveland
and looks to be true in
SF
Milwaukee
St Augustine
New York
New Orleans
Charleston
Possibly in
Roanoke
Montreal
Boston
But does not seem to be true in
Houston
I suspect though it is true in Houston, Roanoke, Montreal and Boston, but things have changed so much it is too difficult to identify the “path” anymore.

maltedfalcon

Well I came up with the theory and even I don’t think “walking path” is accurate. I said there is a path from an iconic image in the painting to the first spot in the verse.
it seems to be straight or only have a few turns. But outside of a method for identifying the casque site area, I don’t think there really is any point in actually trying to
walk the path.
This shows true in Chicago and Cleveland
and looks to be true in
SF
Milwaukee
St Augustine
New York
New Orleans
Charleston
Possibly in
Roanoke
Montreal
Boston
But does not seem to be true in
Houston
I suspect though it is true in Houston, Roanoke, Montreal and Boston, but things have changed so much it is too difficult to identify the “path” anymore.

Care to share some details for discussion?

gManTexas

Care to share some details for discussion?

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6345

maltedfalcon

Well I came up with the theory and even I don’t think “walking path” is accurate. I said there is a path from an iconic image in the painting to the first spot in the verse.
it seems to be straight or only have a few turns. But outside of a method for identifying the casque site area, I don’t think there really is any point in actually trying to
walk the path.
This shows true in Chicago and Cleveland
and looks to be true in
SF
Milwaukee
St Augustine
New York
New Orleans
Charleston
Possibly in
Roanoke
Montreal
Boston
But does not seem to be true in
Houston
I suspect though it is true in Houston, Roanoke, Montreal and Boston, but things have changed so much it is too difficult to identify the “path” anymore.

it’s good to see these changes

maltedfalcon

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6345

I like a lot of that, and I would assume this is what got distilled down to “start at such and such, then make one turn and you’re there.”
On a broader scale, I believe there are paths or entry points in the puzzles. For example, I believe that we are encouraged to take the old Cooper River (Grace Memorial) bridge into Charleston. In NY we are instructed to to take the Verrazzano-Narrows bridge (maybe Brooklyn bridge). It is probable in SF that we come in over the Golden Gate bridge on Route 101.
Not to focus solely on bridges, but they popped into my head. The building seem a bit tougher, since you may be on foot. All of the buildings, like Milwaukee City Hall, Cleveland Terminal Tower, and the Chicago Water Tower are some distance from the respective parks. Maybe it is a driving thing.
I think your theory has a lot of merit though.

BINGO

Look at the keywords. Regardless of how you interpret them, it would be quite difficult to create a hint without giving them away.

Bigmatty, I’m leaning towards this feature in image4 as a built-in Houston clue where it hides a useful piece of information to image8.  In image 8 we see a side view of the Houston arch suggested by the shape below Camel and Rhino.
It is in front view in image4 to draw our focus to it’s importance.  I’ve been researching equestrian statues for awhile now and I have to say there are many differences among them.

Palencar said there was something special about the centuar’s helmet but he couldn’t remember…
I wonder if that was another clue, that in one of the other images a helmet identification will come into play.

Choice

After a cursory look at the 1st couple of pages of the book (the instructions on how to view the puzzle) I noticed the following:
The picture below, a sample puzzle and solve, the jewel, nose and dig spot line up. This template works on Image 4.
Using this template on Image 1 it points to a curved wall or a round planter, similar to my solution under the Columbus statue.
I haven’t spent much time on any other Image but recently I noticed that Image 8’s camel may be a representation of the obelisk.
Below are the links to the other images.
Image 1:
https://imgur.com/W1D4Bw2
Image 2:
https://imgur.com/fsAGY1R
Image 3:
https://imgur.com/5BGgIbm
Image 6:
https://imgur.com/pS6gkyq
Image 7:
https://imgur.com/r3vcVK8
Image 8:
https://imgur.com/1gzvUiG
Image 9:
https://imgur.com/J1MU942
Image10:
https://imgur.com/BZlv5Hx
Image11:
https://imgur.com/uQqaWnQ
Image12:
https://imgur.com/cbCk0m0

I bet that you can draw straight lines at any angle from one of their ears to the gem in the picture, too….or, from some other arbitrary body part to the gem. (As you did with images 2, 7, 10 and 11….would have to do with Image 5, which you omitted.)

As always have to explain for special EZ.
2 from lion’s nose. Line crosses her left arm near where her hands meet.
7 from mask’s nose
10, 11 from woman’s nose.
No other body parts.
What’s so complicated?
Image 5 falls in the flower/tulip field which I assume is the trees.

Choice

As always have to explain for special EZ.
2 from lion’s nose. Line crosses her left arm near where her hands meet.
7 from mask’s nose
10, 11 from woman’s nose.
No other body parts.
What’s so complicated?
Image 5 falls in the flower/tulip field which I assume is the trees.

Thought I would check this out. If, on image 5 you go from the Bowman’s nose it puts a line straight though the central fence post (close anyway). On image 4, if you go from the centaur’s nose it puts the line directly (I think) in the dig spot of the rectangle.

I’ve grown to understand that I’ve never truly understood this puzzle and neither has anyone else. I’ll leave it to the Chicago or Cleveland finders to argue any differently. It wasn’t completely accidental that they found casques, and they deserve all kinds of credit for their diligence and contribution, but as far as understanding the puzzles go, I don’t think so. They have explainations and some direct responses by Preiss tell us some particulars, but on the whole, should we really say they understand the methodology? Perhaps someone does, or perhaps someone is close to pulling a casque, but as I understand it there is one main dynamic/divergence in our process: as we work any puzzle we are constantly faced with choosing an approach based on how we think a puzzle works, but until sufficient evidence is produced, we don’t know for certain how that the puzzle is designed.
Has anyone here taken part in the Historical Hunt?
http://www.historicalhunt.com/
I don’t know how some people get their answers, but I found it very difficult to make progress after a certain point. One thing it has taught me is that there’s a lot of resources out there and learning to peruse news articles, cemetery records, and pay attention to the most minute details is a skill that transcends the simple act of performing a search on Google.
So as I try to make progress with the Secret, I find myself trying hard to understand the symbol imagery for each painting and address the scope that Priess would’ve expected his audience to have in a pre-internet era. He didn’t just challenge us to research small details, he challenged us to pay attention to what he was doing, how he uses his words, his every verb, participle, and tense, his proper or lack of proper noun capitalization, or an opportune idioms or punctuation. Understanding his process through the veil of art and poetry is extremely challenging. For now, we can only hope we’re getting the point and there’s a good enough piece of evidence to support some convergence enough that we see a clearly defined digging opportunity.

Curses. I’ve dreamed two nights in row that I dug up a casque.

Has anyone ever made a connection with the Fair People and the World’s Fairs? Both Chicago and Cleveland held world’s fairs and Grant Park was part of the original fairgrounds. Many of the other proposed cities were also World’s Fair hosts.

I remember we had some theories about the exposition in St. Louis. But a world’s fair or exposition was never held in Roanoke AFAIK, and it would be odd for such a rule to apply for some locations and not others.

I’d like to talk about dualities.
I think JM posed the notion in the first Shhhh…. the secret podcast (which is turning out amazing, btw) that it seemed like Preiss did a lot of things twice. Like having two images that are arched, and using a letter to represent a last name in exactly two verses.
You know me, I’ve designed my share of puzzles over the decades, many of them for money (I made most of the puzzles for Telltale Games’ Puzzle Agent 2). While I can’t speak for Preiss, I can say there have been exactly three reasons why I’ve included a “same solution works for two puzzles” in my larger works:
1. I felt that the puzzles had very unclear starting points. With a duality theme, people can try applying other solved puzzles to try to get a grip on a new one.
2. I got exhausted, and wanted to reuse puzzle solves for ease. However, clients would never stand for that, so I make it a “theme.” Now slacking off just looks like an intricate part of puzzle planning.
3. It was just coincidence. When you make puzzles in huge batches such as the ones The Secret required, it’s natural for an author to reuse elements. Some elements Preiss reused more than twice, some have been used 11 times. It’s like looking at pi and saying “whoa, there are infinite 2’s. That must mean something!”
That said, it might be #1. In that case, I’d like to start a list of things that happen exactly twice in the puzzles. Please add to the list and/or refute anything erroneously reported as occurring exactly twice. ALSO, feel free to name any common puzzle solving techniques that we have noticed used exactly once in The Secret, so we can try to find their counterpart.
DUALITIES:
Rebus: Bellflower and Milwaukee
Arched images: 1 and 12
Triangle with a dot in it: 1 and 11
Using an initial to represent a person in verse: Verses 10 and 12
Abroad in America references: Verses 2 and 6
Complete state outlines: 4 and 5
Birds: Images 11 and 12
Palm tress: 2 and 6
Columns: Images 4 and 8
Faces paired with clocks: 2 and 8
Clocks not paired with faces: 1 and 12
Castles: Images 5 and 11
Fairies: Images 2 and 11
Women with long thin smocks: 1 and 11
Two interlocked hands with weird positions: 1 and 9
Acrostics: Verses 9 and 5

.

maltedfalcon

oh thats so obvious how could I have missed it before.

We’ll surely have the retrospective doh!, but that’s not the point I’m making.  I’m beginning to see that when people think they are close, they will know it for a variety of reasons.  They won’t have the sense of “how could I have missed that?!” because that’s not how this is designed.  Cleveland was super simple and I have no doubt that was the solution Preiss expected to be solved within the first 30 days.  Chicago is actually a bit more complicated.  The lat/long numbers are hidden in the shape of the windmill arms whereas the lat long in Cleveland appear in regular print.  Cleveland has a consistent theme of Greek = Greek and then gives exact directions to the casque.  Hard to believe it took 22 years!!  Chicago has pretty general instructions and fits together nicely, but it presents a larger number of things to consider that are strewn about a path presented as many ornaments on the Troll’s head and hat.  I believe there was something visually perfect that puts Chicago’s exact spot into perspective.  I think that detail was never revealed because they were so close and ended up using a photo from Preiss to fine tune their efforts.  Minor changes to the area in Grant Park have made it difficult or even impossible to know what that specific detail was.  I’m just making a guess that something was missed and nobody saw a point in verifying since the casque was in hand and the excitement of getting a jewel took over.
I think the closest anyone has come to finding a casque without finding one is Maltedfalcon at the Palace of the Legion of Honor.  Some changes have happened there as well, making things far more challenging and no longer so obvious.  I give him credit for all his work, it’s a very huge task now that the Flagpole AND the Lincoln Marker have gone from their original locations.

There’s something odd about the Chinese.
On P7 it’s explained that: “Thus, we are told, did the First Age of the Old World come to an end: with the departure of Twelve Nations of Fairy.”
However, “…no sooner had the Twelve established themselves in the New World, than they were joined there by a Thirteenth. On the first morning of the first spring day…”. Thus appear the Chinese, with their dragon.
The verse on P32 reads: “The First Age ended; the New Age began”. Did the new age, then, begin with the Chinese…?
The Chinese arrive on “the first morning of the first spring day”. But the Chinese spring is different from the European one, being the start of the Chinese New Year in Jan or Feb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_New_Year
We are told that: “In our land
and in our time
, the Fair People and their treasures yet wait to be discovered.” We’ve seen how numbers resembling dates tie in with lat/long in images like Cleveland, but perhaps there are other date-related clues.
The Chinese years include animals like the dragon, dog and horse which all appear in the images. Each animal recurs on a fixed 12-year cycle. For instance, the New Orleans image includes what looks like a chessboard, with an animal head, which would logically be a horse. The clock includes 19 and 90. Although the book was published in 1982, 1990 would always be fixed as a Year of the Horse. Maybe the images with these animals could tie in with a relevant year, eg by a dated statue/plaque/event.

One wonders if the Viking elves also wrought the plexiglass cubes to protect each casque.

Frisco

…and for the record, that picture of the 74, White Rabbit, is far blurrier than I see it on my screen. I can see it crystal clear. Maybe a monitor upgrade is in order…

Yeah, my bad, I think I’ve recently been browsing the Something Awful scans instead of the original Q4T ones…

Perhaps pointing out the obvious here. But this is another “thing that looks like something”.
It might be “BOS”, in which case we should be keeping an eye out for other airport/IATA codes.
(Boogieman suggested this back in 2007; just keeping the idea alive as they’re not all straightforward. Eg, you could consider the “whirring sound” and look for the code of an NY heliport. If this is “BOS”, the “B” also reveals that JJP sometimes indicates continuous shapes using unconnected lines.)

I have reason to believe BP had used a standard magnetic compass on the occasions where he needed to pace long distances and especially when he refers to directions. Its vitally important to recognize the magnetic declination in play at the time of placement.
He uses maps in simple ways to incorporate fairly characteristic lines for JJP, such as the Cleveland Garden’s curvy boundary or GGP and the outlines of other SF shores along the bay, and the Charleston area. I think it may be fruitful to go ahead and purchase those vintage maps from 1976-1980 and look at whats unique about some landscapes. Look for interesting boundaries, major rivers, interesting park shapes. Maybe something new can be gleaned. I feel like googlemaps and even the historic aerials may be misleading despite their awesome accuracy. Lets go old school and look at the basic materials available at the time of the book’s printing.

The problem we all face most is in wrestling with the Internet. It’s a great tool, but when you imagine Byron Preiss with his feet on the ground, eyeballing landmarks that fit his fancy, he wasn’t able to search all “statues grey giant” (or whatever) at once with a single click. He wouldnt know for sure what unintended consequential side-roads would be mistaken for his puzzle.
He sure had a wide breadth of knowledge. How would we know about the acrostic grave neighboring Keats tomb while vacationing at FOY? Nobody has ever explained that. The first chapter, literally on the entrance to FOY, and then “writ in water” firmly lodges into peoples minds in a Spanish explorer setting as an aha moment, so lets look for SELOY?! I think thats just a mess to explain, but it exists because we can google search obscuritues.
I learned from reading other publications by Byron Preiss that he was gifted at choosing his words wisely. He uses them in a blindingly creative way in these puzzles. Every time I look at these short lines, I see an impossibly intricate maze of possibilities.
Its like hes mixing a long island ice tea for us, only we get each type of liquor separately and one at a time and only at the treasure ground do we find the tea and lemon. Then it hits you, bamm! This is a Long Island Ice Tea…
I hate that legeater. Nobody would be interested in Montreal if it wasnt discovered. I could almost consider there was a legeater in St. Louis. I wish there was one in Vancouver…
How do we decide what is the best candidate hook in any image? Lat and Long seemed pretty good for some, but indeterminant for others. A State shape made it easiest. Cultural connection, like Germany/MKE or France/NOLA arent so bad. Legeater?? Wtf. I think the two runes next to the X in image 9 are best for identifying a Scandinavian or Netherland/Lowland Gnome connection, making it easier to focus on a Viking landing in Nova Scotia.
Preiss seemed to use Ancient Greek references more than anything. Its almost suprising that image4 actually ended up being a Greek Garden. I’m not suprised it took so long for that puzzle to be found. Its stunning to think of these puzzles in a Pre-internet age point of view.
/rant

erexere

How do we decide what is the best candidate hook in any image? Lat and Long seemed pretty good for some, but indeterminant for others. A State shape made it easiest. Cultural connection, like Germany/MKE or France/NOLA arent so bad. Legeater?? Wtf. I think the two runes next to the X in image 9 are best for identifying a Scandinavian or Netherland/Lowland Gnome connection, making it easier to focus on a Viking landing in Nova Scotia.
/rant

The Boer War monument in Dorchester square, within the Golden Square Mile is a nice Dutch connection to Montral.

Yes, it is.

erexere

so lets look for SELOY?! I think thats just a mess to explain, but it exists because we can google search obscuritues.

So as far as SELOY goes, I honestly never ever gave it any creedence. Basically with the amount of words involved in this puzzle, statistically I would expect there to be at least 1 string of letters that forms a word that roughly fits along with the puzzle. Actually with the number of words in this I would expect 2 word strings.
SELOY fits that It is there but I don’t think it is really a clue BP created on purpose. To see this in action elsewhere, look at the book “The Bible Code”
I don’t count SELOY as a real clue.

maltedfalcon

So as far as SELOY goes, I honestly never ever gave it any creedence. Basically with the amount of words involved in this puzzle, statistically I would expect there to be at least 1 string of letters that forms a word that roughly fits along with the puzzle. Actually with the number of words in this I would expect 2 word strings.
SELOY fits that It is there but I don’t think it is really a clue BP created on purpose. To see this in action elsewhere, look at the book “The Bible Code”
I don’t count SELOY as a real clue.

That sounds a little crazy to me. Taking the first letters of the lines in the puzzles, you’ll be hard-pressed to find ANY word of length. I think the longest word you can come up with is “abbot” in V10. There aren’t even many cases where the vowel/consonant structure would even allow for the likely construction of a name or proper noun. Maybe 7 or 8 in the entire 12 verses that even show up as proper nouns in a Google search, none of which are in English.
So for a 5-letter word to just
happen
to match up to the exact location with the correct verse would be highly unlikely. Type “Seloy” into a search and the FOY is the first match.

I feel SELOY is no accident. There may be the opinion that red-herrings dont exist, this is one I hope to someday prove.
I thought the V10 contained what looks like a broken acrostic saying “CANS TO FLOAT”.

maltedfalcon

So as far as SELOY goes, I honestly never ever gave it any creedence. Basically with the amount of words involved in this puzzle, statistically I would expect there to be at least 1 string of letters that forms a word that roughly fits along with the puzzle. Actually with the number of words in this I would expect 2 word strings.
SELOY fits that It is there but I don’t think it is really a clue BP created on purpose. To see this in action elsewhere, look at the book “The Bible Code”
I don’t count SELOY as a real clue.

You are joking, right? You realize the bible code and the first-line letter acrostics of this puzzle have ZERO in common methodologically?
Statistically? Really? Have you run the probability on this? I’ll be happy to send you the latest SPSS package and you can actually test this yourself.
Try this for me… Write twelve 15-sentence paragraphs about twelve different restaurants you like. Now, take the first letter of each line within each of those paragraphs and see if they spell a dish on that restaurants menu. Any hits? OK… try it a hundred more times… any hits?
Here’s a similar example:
http://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3033&context=wordways

No but one of his friends and a book contributor worked for the band Parliment in the 70’s and 80’s

Egbert raises a great point about the odd word choice of casque for a container. I think this is an epitome a Fair Folk tendency to adopt words for their own uses. Clearly it’s a homonym for a “cask”, which is a container. At the very least, this should serve as a precedent for other occassions of descrepency.

A big clue arises from the creation of the images in the book. I understand that BP would send drawings and photos and presumably maps to the artist for him to incorporate in his artwork. This is reminiscent of a “paper and pencil” game whereby an opponent draws a shape or squiggle and you have to use your imagination to turn it into something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Squiggle
“
…children wrote in with their “squiggles” and Mr. Squiggle would turn them into recognisable drawings by connecting lines with his pencil nose. More often than not, the picture would be drawn upside down (Hetherington manipulated the puppet from above by viewing the drawing upside down), and then Mr. Squiggle would gleefully declare: “Upside down! Upside down!” – asking his assistant to turn the picture the right way up and reveal the completed drawing.”
So JJP was a genius at this.
And in addition concealed the original locations so well that we are only just finding them.

I don’t think so. It appears that a real-life statue is used and modified just slightly enough to suit another purpose. However, the modifications always seem to be quite small (i.e., they do not the diminish the original).

Glossiphoniidae

Well, I have also been looking for this because I haven’t been convinced about the Olmsted significance (that dude was everywhere). I’ve been looking at BP making stops at the local art museums, which Chicago seemed to point out, and I’ve had some great success. I haven’t shared this before because I have been working on it’s significance. I’ll let you all find others (I’ll share a couple good ones, IMO), but here’s four to peak your interest…
The Chicago image utilized the Great Lakes Fountain.
The Cleveland image utilized the Man and Horse Armour.
The Charleston image utilized the Persephone Fountain.
The Boston image utilized the Horus Falcon (Horace
).
Interestingly, BP also seemed to rely on a work of art featured in some museums, too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/461 … 1c43_o.jpg

I like the clean comparison on the legs.
Also, I’m more inclined to think about his methods in association with the cultural theme. Could be there’s a major cultural connection given a boost by some other cultural influences which are hinted at by some means in either the supplemental text or in the image/verse. I think he attempts to explain the choice of setting by some relationship that particular Fair Folk had when they fell in love with a particular spot. I’m at a loss to elaborate on the blendings, though.

erexere

I like the clean comparison on the legs.

… and the arms, and the head looking down, and the table it stands upon…

In this image, Soloman Juneau is in a similar position to the Juggler in Image 10
The images do not match up perfect, however it’s as close as a match as your Cleveland example. This statue is within 200 yards of the Milwaukee art museum. Coincidence?

I feel like I’m coming at this from a slice perspective.  My strongest foothold also happens to be the most treacherous.  I grew up in Oregon and in New York.  I went Joseph Lane Elementary and John Adams High School.  Never did I wonder about the history of these namesakes before this hunt.  I saw the word Lane on the first line and thought about a thematic connection.  Ponce with flag on mountain infers being first.  Lane was the Oregon Territory 1st Governor.  *ding*  Ponce was also a 1st Governor.  This is a simple mental exercise and leads me to consider how the following line might be interpreted with respect to the Oregon Territory (this includes Washington and Idaho).  I followed highway No.2 to exit 22 and turned to the first historic site with abplaque describing the weight of a large rock on a platform of three square steps extending in all directions.  Whoa, that fits another line with complete accuracy.  I wasnt sure at first where to go next but I learned soon enough that my discovery was a big fat confoict with the FoY theory.  After many misteps I have concluded that P6V9 is correct as an interpretation. That is Preiss went there and constructed a pairing of the verse and image intentionally, but being a capable engineer of writing, i chose to believe he would use a thematic device to light the way to the true pairing.  P6 has Ponce and FoY has Ponce, but those are surface similarities and require no effort of the mind to infer any higher level connection.  The V9 …SELOY connection is intentional and does require some keen observation to connect so it leads us to more surface level connections and the Planetarium looks like the one creative match to the riddled verse, but other than that there is no theme to deliver us to a place where we say “wow, i thought this through and achieved something awesome.”  I’m certain folks are underestimating Preiss.

I’m seeing somewhat of a pattern where a distant image match shares one boundary and a few other image matches match the remaining three sides to a basic square boundary.  The remaining verse and image elements define the specifics within the square.

could someone help me,could you put a map up showing,if the trail to the casque
from start to finish,moved from downtown Chicago to grant PK,trying to see if it
went….. east,north,east,north,….if the chicago C,works like clev,maybe the other Cs
will work the same way.or at least start downtown in x city  TIA
east is to the right of downtown TT in clev ,sorry for crude drawing,for some reason
i couldnt load img i wanted to
gardens
–
–
– ———–
–
–
downtown TT——————  euclid ave

I’m still trying to decipher JJPs claim that there was something special about the helmet.  If someone has something solid to offer, please say something.  I have to scrap a my crappy helmet ideas of the past.  Starting from scratch I try not to overdo things which is helpful when looking for something hiding in plain sight.  Here’s something I haven’t ruled out yet, HELMET = HELL + MET.  How does one “meet” Hell?  How about going to the “Gates of Hell”?  That is the name of the Rodin arch which features the Thinker and the Three Shades.  I wonder if somehow this artist specific reference isn’t a minor theme channel for more than one of the locations.
I’m drawn to this conclusion by insights related to Verse 7 and Image 1 pointing to the Palace of the Legion of Honor which is home to Rodin’s work, also Verse 11 and Image 3 which led me to Rodanthe in the Outer Banks and disquises a statue in plate.

ask who?
my point is I wouldn’t trust anybody else with BP’s treasure hunt.
As Kit Williams’ Masquerade demonstrated, you basically can’t trust anyone.  see the section at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masquerade_(book
) under Scandal
If the answers were out there someone would cheat.
The reason this Hunt has gone on for this long is the only answers are finding a casque. How much fun have you had with it.
who are you to deny the next group of hunters to come along the fun and  possibility of finding a casque (or what remains of one)
If you get “close enough” but don’t really solve it and demand the answer – you are taking away from the person who might have actually solved it.
And really if you haven’t gone out and dug holes in the ground, you really haven’t been trying to solve this hunt.
The only way for a secret keeper to actually know if a hunt is impossible would be to physically go to every site, dig up the site and see if it’s still there.
Anyways it’s possibly moot, as JJP said He wouldn’t ever say anything.
and BP’s Wife indicated the solutions were not found after BP’s death and she was not interested in looking into it anymore than that.

ask who?
my point is I wouldn’t trust anybody else with BP’s treasure hunt.
As Kit Williams’ Masquerade demonstrated, you basically can’t trust anyone.  see the section at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masquerade_(book
) under Scandal
If the answers were out there someone would cheat.
The reason this Hunt has gone on for this long is the only answers are finding a casque. How much fun have you had with it.
who are you to deny the next group of hunters to come along the fun and  possibility of finding a casque (or what remains of one)
If you get “close enough” but don’t really solve it and demand the answer – you are taking away from the person who might have actually solved it.
And really if you haven’t gone out and dug holes in the ground, you really haven’t been trying to solve this hunt.
The only way for a
secret
keeper to actually know if a hunt is impossible would be to physically go to every site, dig up the site and see if it’s still there.
Anyways it’s possibly moot, as JJP said He wouldn’t ever say anything.
and BP’s Wife indicated the solutions were not found after BP’s death and she was not interested in looking into it anymore than that.

That’s a great question, Catherwood.  For me, even if I think I/we have “solved” an Image/Verse puzzle, I think I would still get a kick out of visiting each of the sites to see possible clue confirmers, and explaining it to whomever I am with, hopefully with book in hand.  I would probably give up the idea of trying to dig, but I do not think that I would ever stop talking about it on these bulletin boards.

Also, remember that the finders of the original casque in Chicago
still needed BP’s help
to find it, less than two years after the hunt started. We’re now going on 32 years later. The Cleveland casque is probably the last that will ever be dug up, because it was up in an out-of-the-way stone box, where it couldn’t be washed away.

Egbert

That’s a great question, Catherwood.  For me, even if I think I/we have “solved” an Image/Verse puzzle, I think I would still get a kick out of visiting each of the sites to see possible clue confirmers, and explaining it to whomever I am with, hopefully with book in hand.  I would probably give up the idea of trying to dig, but I do not think that I would ever stop talking about it on these bulletin boards.

30 years in the ground will have worn these boxes out, but I think there will be something left. Depending on climate and humidity some may be intact and others just pieces but I think we at least should find the plexiglass box.

Never Give up!
Never Surrender!

I posed a question in a specific thread, but it deserves its own place in the meta philosophical discussion:
Consider what kind of evidence is sufficient for your own satisfaction (short of finding the casque itself) that a particular solution is correct.  If the treasure is gone, if no evidence of it remains, what will you accept as “good enough” to stop looking elsewhere?
In other words, is it reasonable to accept that a particular solution can never be proven (or disproven)?  That’s not the same thing as giving up, is it?

MF, what if you thought that you had the solution, but you knew that for whatever reason, you could never dig it up (washed away, destroyed, buried under concrete, etc.).  Wouldn’t you want to know, at that point, if you were correct?  What more could be gained by waiting?

The premise is faulty, how can you be sure if you never have dug it up.
All you can know is its hasn’t been where I looked.
If someone acquires the answers, at that point I stop caring, because there is nothing that to keep them from deciding to announce the answers. I don’t believe they should.
What if it turns out you were super close to solving a puzzle and at that point somebody declares it “over” and publishes the answers.
What if the week before you went to cleveland, BP had declared the hunt over and published all the solutions.
The only thing I would accept would be if someone did it exactly like BP did it.  That is to say, basically no help at all.

Unknown

Unknown:
_ I have found a treasure casque.  I enclose the key.
_ I think I have found a treasure site, but the treasure is missing.
_ I have determined the site of a treasure, but I am unable to explore it.

I just opened my book to page 220, with the claim form.  Here are three possible ways to request confirmation:
So.
If you have dug and come up empty, why not go for option two?  Request confirmation that you were in the correct spot, but circumstances have taken the treasure out of play.
In the spirit of the hunt, we are not asking for the solution to be handed to us, but looking for a alternative method of submitting this form to someone who might be able to respond.

Euhirudinea

… it’s a good bet that after 35 winters, we are looking for pieces of ceramic and plexiglass instead of intact boxes. And a probe is more likely to miss that. IMO, the likelihood of finding an intact box, even after 35 years, is much greater for the 6 southern casques, all other things being equal.

Possibly the most true, logical statement I’ve read in weeks.

I recently found supporting evidence of the notion that pacing can be implied. Verse 2 says “fifteen rows…” and “in the middle of twenty-one”, and neither says the word ‘paces’. Paces are normally in a straight line and count off some number of steps in a row. “15 rows down to the ground” seems open to such interpretation and so 15 paces in a row down to the ground makes sense, especially if there is a stone landing that steps down to the grass. (See Basin St.).

I can probably answer most questions you might have about the Hebrew calendar.
One thing to note: The Hebrew calendar in use now is mostly based on the Babylonian lunar calendar (many of the month names are abbreviations or alterations of the original Babylonian). The Babylonian calendar seems to have been used across the middle east, as its names and quirks also show up in Turkey, in various Arabic calendar use. There is no link in Judaism between the twelve tribes and the twelve months of the year.
The Wikipedia article about the Hebrew calendar is a good jumping-off point for researching how the religious hours, days, and months work in Judaism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

Kalessin

I can probably answer most questions you might have about the Hebrew calendar.
One thing to note: The Hebrew calendar in use now is mostly based on the Babylonian lunar calendar (many of the month names are abbreviations or alterations of the original Babylonian). The Babylonian calendar seems to have been used across the middle east, as its names and quirks also show up in Turkey, in various Arabic calendar use. There is no link in Judaism between the twelve tribes and the twelve months of the year.
The Wikipedia article about the Hebrew calendar is a good jumping-off point for researching how the religious hours, days, and months work in Judaism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

Hey thanks! Get ready for questions, lol!

We see touches of inspiration from Iconic paintings or objects in the images, maybe there is also that same inspiration from the 12 tribes hidden within each image and possible clues you encounter along the way cleverly disguised with in an area of the casque. If we can make connections to paintings or objects for inspiration, then it’s possible that we can make connections to the tribes as well.

That makes sense, I did the same thing about 7-8 years ago to prove that they could not be metal detected.
and they could not.

erexere

My casque-box replica project:  as expensive as plexiglass is I should really try to get it right.  I’ve got six sides to make a rough cube shape.  Dimensions as follows:
(2) 6.25″ x 6.25″ x 0.25″
(4) 6″ x 6″ x 0.25″
It’s basically a bottom and a top capping four walls joined together simple 90 degree style.  No mortice or fancy joint making here…It’s designed to withstand pressure from above but not so much from the sides.
Cost is about $40.

Finished box.  Looks like the real deal.  I wrapped it in cling wrap (it’s red because all I had left in the house was “holiday style”.)  I used a ton of “16” type acrylic solvent to weld the pieces together.  It’s very sturdy.  Below are pics of Egbert’s recovery to compare.

Nice! The actual casques were 3/16″ thick (so just a little thinner than yours), and sealed with clear caulk in an attempt to make them waterproof.

Yeah, I hoped to introduce the best possible model for the purpose of thoroughly testing a GPR.

Since I was only eyeballing the measurement for my previous post, I loaded up Gimp to use the pixel measure tool to test my theory that the ratio of line segments is 10:13.
and
So it comes at 630 pixels followed by 794 pixels.
10/13 = 0.77
630/794 = 0.79
So that’s pretty close given the ratios differ by two-hundredths. Anyone using a standard ruler on that tiny book page would probably feel confident that the ratio checks out.

I find there’s still something of a line slope from the top of the wall to the casque position indicated. The line connects the Large Landmark to the jewel in image. Thanks go out to Egbert for the pic and confirming that the casque was found in the viscinity of the highlighted portion of the planter.

erexere

what if “seeking the columns” is universal?  Preiss could’ve sought interesting column-type landmarks and built them into his journey from points A to B.  Obviously that’s a given in the Cleveland solution.  Perhaps it doesn’t need to be said for the others.  Where there isn’t a good Greek column available a tall and straight type tree might serve in it’s place.

Please remember he said specifically to find a casque you need one picture and one verse
So no I don’t thing they are universal.

Image and word each play their own roles in Chicago and Cleveland.  What seems to be missing is a general respect for the blurring of that boundary.  The directions to a casque are split, rather than shared.  The roles swap as often as needed to create each challenge.  There are different methods ar work in for each casque.  Image 4 puts us in view of the wall but exact details are conveyed by word to count off and dig ar a precise spot.  That did not happen with image 5.  There the final words refer us back to image for a precise perspective fit in an area loosely described by word.  Its the reverse of image 4 when it comes to resolving the final step.

The only thing we know for sure, is that in the two confirmed solutions, the images contribute two things:
Clues to the general location (latitudes/longitudes, large familiar landmarks such as buildings, the occasional city or state map, etc.)
Depictions of things you’d see if you were in the right place (statues, columns, fenceposts, etc.)
So, you could say that the images give you the first major starting point (the city — or island, in the case of Roanoke), and then give you confirmations that you’re in the right place once you’ve applied the appropriate verse.
I don’t think there are any other types of visual clues in either of the confirmed solutions, are there?

erexere

I’m curious about this similarity.  Was there a pupose to using a specific architecture?
Sorry. I need to get a better resolution and resize…still not handling the switch to ipad too well.

From a purely architectural and artistic standpoint, these are images that are CLASSIC. The Romanesque arch under the horse, which has only ONE foot raised–these are almost “standard” features of a great number of equestrian statues. It is not surprising at all that they would be similar–if you have ever studied art history or the history of statuary and sculpture, you will find these similiarities in hundreds and hundreds of other statues and other locations–public monument almost always followed “classical” standards in the times before The Secret was written. You are reading too much into the similarities in these images.

also that arch is a so so ringer for Sam houston, but is a dead ringer for one in New York City (minus the centaur)
so I think SheCrab is right it’s just a piece of classical architecture used to tie together the theme and site confirmers.

erexere

The roles swap as often as needed to create each challenge.  There are different methods ar work in for each casque.  Image 4 puts us in view of the wall but exact details are conveyed by word to count off and dig ar a precise spot.  That did not happen with image 5.  There the final words refer us back to image for a precise perspective fit in an area loosely described by word.  Its the reverse of image 4 when it comes to resolving the final step.

that is an unsubstantiated assumption
Yes it happened exactly that way – The archer.  over lincolns shoulder 10×13 + site confirmer images
The pillars in the image, the pillars in the verse, the path up to the treasure, the brick count + site confirmer images/
In cleveland you had to walk past the wall to find the path up to the treasure ground as it was coming from the opposite direction
In chicago you had to go past lincoln to the corner of the park to see the treasure ground and start counting trees.
chicago and cleveland worked exactly the same.
the clevleand verse was not linear but thats not a big deal

I see, thanks for clearing that up with the tree lines and fence and fixture.  Its good to see how the precision part of location is consistent.
I know the arch isnt a unique design.  Lets consider if its use has a specific implementation.

homophones.
also, alternate word meanings, usually depending on their part of speech.  Here’s a few examples,
http://magoosh.com/gre/2011/secondary-m … r-the-gre/
I’ve been making recent efforts into this territory as well as etymological origin.  It might be easy to label this strategy as something to avoid, but please give it some thought, you might unlock some surprises.  Yes, it is a challenge, it’s like looking for a tiny needle in a tiny haystack that fits in the eye of a needle in a haystack.

I’ve finished all the translation work for the Japanese editions,
a request letter including all the context and transcript were submitted to the Fellow Academy in Tokyo for the approval from Mr. Masaki (original translator)

I am not surprised at all!

Many of these rules sound pretty arbitrary if you ask me.
At the end of the day, this quest will now only be progressed by someone who goes barmy with a shovel, not by making lists of guidelines.
I don’t think it’ll ever happen.

Rules….shmules…Preiss said if we are playful we might find these.

WhiteRabbit

At the end of the day, this quest will now only be progressed by someone who goes barmy with a shovel, not by making lists of guidelines.
I don’t think it’ll ever happen.

Right. Realistically, there will have to be some moonlighting for some sites. Maybe not all but I don’t see permission to dig being granted for most of these that are left. So there’s risk vs. reward…now who wants to dig?!
Sent from my iPhone using
Tapatalk

I think the permission aspect is all about your approach. When I went to Milwaukee I asked permission from the parks director to probe only. She knew about the book from other people asking to search the parks. I told her I would only probe and if I did find something I would let her know before I ever put the shovel to the ground. She said if I found something we’ll talk about a possible dig but I would have to prove that it was indeed the site. So she didn’t say no. She was actually interested. She was mainly concerned with people just randomly digging up parts of the park without asking and appreciated how I went about it. I called her when I got there and I called her when I was leaving. If we ever narrow down a site 100% I’m sure I can get permission to dig there.

fox

I can’t agree with you more treetops. I believe your breakdown is exactly how these things work. Just because some of our believed locations haven’t been unearthed doesn’t mean that they are incorrect leading us to try to tear down the wordings more. The only thing this leads to is forced fits. I know, I’ve done it myself. If this were the case, the Cleveland casque would never have been found. I feel quite confident of the list of cities we have made…from lat/lon when visible to landmarks such as Milwaukee’s City Hall. I also believe that all of these cities will be port cities. I will eat my hat, along with any hats anyone cares to send me, if a casque is found in some obscure city like Omaha Nebraska or Eugene Oregon. It just won’t happen.  I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it —- THE ONLY THING GOING AGAINST US IS THE PASSAGE OF TIME —-. Period. We are probably a lot closer to many of these than we know. Finally, why do you keep saying Roanoke is an exception to your City Park rule? I don’t see how it can be anywhere but within the Elizabethan Gardens.
Again, thanks for your clear and concise take on how these riddles work. I think you hit the nail on the head.

I think Verse 5 could potentially violate the city park theory with the “Get permission” line.

I can’t agree with you more treetops. I believe your breakdown is exactly how these things work. Just because some of our believed locations haven’t been unearthed doesn’t mean that they are incorrect leading us to try to tear down the wordings more. The only thing this leads to is forced fits. I know, I’ve done it myself. If this were the case, the Cleveland casque would never have been found. I feel quite confident of the list of cities we have made…from lat/lon when visible to landmarks such as Milwaukee’s City Hall. I also believe that all of these cities will be port cities. I will eat my hat, along with any hats anyone cares to send me, if a casque is found in some obscure city like Omaha Nebraska or Eugene Oregon. It just won’t happen.  I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it —- THE ONLY THING GOING AGAINST US IS THE PASSAGE OF TIME —-. Period. We are probably a lot closer to many of these than we know. Finally, why do you keep saying Roanoke is an exception to your City Park rule? I don’t see how it can be anywhere but within the Elizabethan Gardens.
Again, thanks for your clear and concise take on how these riddles work. I think you hit the nail on the head.

erexere

Where we are certain of the city it shouldn’t be too hard to disprove a site with reasonable inspections.

Been certain of San Francisco for a long time, that hasn’t in any way helped /prove/disprove a site, as we have candidate sites all over the city.
Im not sure what you meant by this post. I should point out, you can get across most urban areas in most cities in less than 15 minutes. So timings wise that really doesn’t help narrow anything down at all.

erexere

These verses are heavily engineered.
We might see a 15 line poem best interpreted in this order:
Start A: Well known building, lines 13-14
B: Road name, lines 7-8
C: An art sculpture, line 4
D: A book quote, lines 1-3
E: A historical marker, lines 5-6
F: Instruction to walk in a direction a number of paces, line 9
G: Notice the exact details that make pinpointing possible, lines 10-12
End H: This is where you dig, line 15

This is interesting,
can you apply this to Chicago and Cleveland Specifically?
Earlier in this thread, I showed how the Chicago and Cleveland were actually laid out in a totally linear fashion
from the iconic image  to the dig site. So I would be interested in seeing your take on this.

My post about time and distance was pretty pointless except I think folks tend to gravitate too closely to one clue while disregarding the case where there are other options.  Chicago and Cleveland are not so similar in terms of the verse.  You’ve done a great job piecing together the image.  It’s verse where things get incredibly confusing.
I suddenly find myself working on Houston again, just when I thought everyone had plumbed all the possibilities I discovered that Alfred Glassel holds the world record for largest fish caught by rod and reel.  The fish is mounted on a wall precisely north of the location I am proposing.  Thematically it fits.  Ahab’s Moby Dick = Glassel’s 1560 pound black marlin.
As far as methodology goes, we’ve been looking at houston as a bit of a Chicago styled adventure with a few stops along a path.  The Cleveland verse simply described a curved road and country above the site and then the details of a rectangle, wall, and columns within a close range area.  I believe the Houston verse shares the same approach.  Only the 982 train is a good distance away, but everything else seems very close.

erexere

This is a progression of trials based on an idea that points of interest recognized in the Chicago and Cleveland are chosen for an important reason.
Why did BP choose to use the Terminal Tower?
A) its an iconic structure, widely recognizable in the Cleveland
B) it begins a path of connected roadways leading to the treasure ground
C) in the context of Greek columns, the word “terminal” has a specific application

A&B make sense C is too vague to be likely
as in A obvious
B obvious
C we have to explore deeper to fully grasp the meaning…
I think the obvious ones are well…. obvious.

This is a progression of trials based on an idea that points of interest recognized in the Chicago and Cleveland are chosen for an important reason. Maltedfalcon is right that any two points might be arbritrary. Its not easy to prove one way or the other.
Why did BP choose to use the Terminal Tower?
A) its an iconic structure, widely recognizable in the Cleveland
B) it begins a path of connected roadways leading to the treasure ground
C) in the context of Greek columns, the word “terminal” has a specific application
All of the above would apply to my recent trial. Terminus typically refers to the ends of a thing. When I drew my line connecting two points, I constrained my choice to the end of the centaurs tail and the bottom end of the tower. Does that meet the basic criteria for not being arbitrary?

Unknown

Unknown:
This is a progression of trials based on an idea that points of interest recognized in the Chicago and Cleveland are chosen for an important reason

“Trials”. Very appropriate choice. Carry on.

Renovator, is that a vote of confidence? Where I was going with things is a reference to the Greek God Terminus, a bust on a boundary stone seems like an archetypal fit to Image 4. See how this wiki article references a drawing of Terminus with a wall hanging from an archway like the Sword of Damocles…
Terminus (mythological god)
Does anyone agree that this might be a contribution to the Cleveland solve? The fairfolk or Nymphs of Hellas might’ve sought to honor this God of boundaries. I’m interested in extending this sort of fairfolk perspective to the other puzzles.

Unknown

Unknown:
A march or mark was, in broad terms, a medieval European term for any kind of borderland, as opposed to a notional “heartland”. More specifically, a march was a border between realms, and/or a neutral/buffer zone under joint control of two states, in which different laws might apply. In both of these senses, marches served a political purpose, such as providing warning of military incursions, or regulating cross-border trade, or both.

Here’s another “spoke in the wheel” that I think builds into the Cleveland puzzle,
The Aquamarine is the jewel for Cleveland (ignoring the sapphire debacle), and is the birthstone for March.
A “march” is also a word used to describe a boundary,
I think BP acted with purpose when he chose the Terminal Tower and leads the seeker to a rectangle bounded plot “beneath two countries”. If you think about it, quite simply, two countries can’t exist without a “march”.

Unknown

Unknown:
Renovator, is that a vote of confidence?

Unfortunately, no it’s not. We have known for a long time why Preiss directed JJP to include the Terminal Tower in Image 4, and it’s the same reason the Water Tower is in Image 5, and City Hall is in Image 8. In all three cases, the building confirms the city, and gives us a means to identify the park. Honest, it’s no more complicated than that.

Euhirudinea

Unfortunately, no it’s not. We have known for a long time why Preiss directed JJP to include the Terminal Tower in Image 4, and it’s the same reason the Water Tower is in Image 5, and City Hall is in Image 8. In all three cases, the building confirms the city, and gives us a means to identify the park. Honest, it’s no more complicated than that.

I think there’s an inaccuracy in your statement. What think of as confirmation on what specifically serves the purpose of confirmation of the city is still unverified.

So, I was reading through the new posts today and the
usual garbage on here started to piss me off. Why
can’t we all just get along? Why do you all continue to
kick at E, especially when all he is trying to do
Is make sense of the puzzle, the same as the rest of us? I
too have been aggravated by the constant postings and the
Ever-retarded tangents that stretch from Oregon to the
rice patties of China. At this point, I just can’t
imagine the boards without him (E), though. It’s a
cold dark forum without the chaos. Plus, I like to troll
.

(Revising some of my thoughts.)
Constraints:
1. Each dig spot is precisely determined. There is no guesswork needed. In most cases, two lines will intersect at a point. The challenge is recognizing the correct features from which to fix these lines.
2. Words hold hidden meanings. We see the word “spout” in V1 and we think it means something like a water faucet, but if this is meant to define an area near an outdoor stage, then it could be applied as meaning some sort of oratory, public speaking or as an actor performing in a play which implies a stage. There’s many candidate words in each verse to apply consideration for what’s implied. Another example from V1, “a whistle sounds”, might easily be taken to mean “look for something with a whistle,” but it could also mean “has some form or quality of a whistle’s sound” which could be a) sounds hollow, b) high pitched (the high pitched rooftop of an A-frame structure), c) an orchestral space (at the base of a performance stage), and d) surely there are others I’ve not thought of…
3. Visual themes and matching lines. Some lines may match the outline of a statue, building, state shape, or even a road map, though evidence of this through what we’ve seen in Cleveland and Chicago show these strong correlations are rotated 90 or 180 and sometimes mirrored. Cleveland uses an image of a centaur and a sphere standing on a wall. It’s possible these were thematically intended to draw attention to those objects which were standing on the wall along the west side of the garden, two poet urns. The centaur’s tail curvature is precisely shaped like the nearest roadway. Chicago’s visual theme uses many objects extending off the tops and sides of a castle like hat. Such extentions would usually be characterized as gargoyles, weather vanes, or lightning rods, though ornamentary in most cases they may also serve a specific function such as conducting water flow off the roof or conducting electricty from lightning strikes. The verse does a good job alluding or implying the “conductor” theme given the reference to M and B as Mozart and Beethoven or “Rumble, Brush, and Music, Hush” for the sound of thunder or a railway train or the electrical contacts called “brushes” or the water spout used for irrigation which the dictionary allows to be called a “hush”.
4. The first line = dual meaning, general context and also applies to method for seeking. Elaboration of this concept is in development or being withheld for the time being.

Pairing birthstones to cultures seems like the first thing Preiss had to work out.
Turquoise for France…hmmm. Im not a French speaker, but the name of that stone brings me to think two words: Turk and Bourgeois…

erexere

My biggest departure from the consensus is Oregon(image 5) and Washington(verse 9) stripping the prize away from the opposite corner of the country’s FOY.  Again, I take a defiant leap from Montreal in favor of Vancouver, but I actually base my theory on the Legeater lamp.  Apparently everyone wants to make love to the lamp and then hang around smoking a cigarette.  I know it’s completely unprecedented to ask the question “why the leg of a lamp?” rather than just note the lamp location and then look around for the next visual/verse match, but I find a wealth of significance in learning that it’s Lord Mount Stephen’s lamp and it’s a clear logic to take some simple elements from that and apply it to the quest for understanding.

Why the Leg of the lamp?  Because in all the other found casques the images in the picture are local to the casque.  Without the Internet, your “Logical” leaps would be even more obtuse. How would the person in Vancouver, who has never been to Montreal even begin to solve this puzzle.
Plain and simple, St Louis is a far better fit to this image/verse than what you have come up with in vancouver. but as a group we set it aside because the legeater lamp is in Montreal.
If we are going to ignore the lamp, and your convoluted connection lamp -> vancouver basically is that.  Then lets re-look at St Louis, its a better fit.
The lamp was mass-produced. so it you want me to consider vancouver as a possible solution, find a lamp there.  Thats the same criteria St. Louis has.

Could it be that pacing to each location is a strong design feature for the puzzles, even though the word “paces” itself isn’t always used? I figure all it takes is a strong focal point for the puzzle, followed by a direction and distance away from that spot.
Just now I’m trying out the idea of pacing 24 steps away from the Atropos Key sculpture in Houston as the result of a verse line riddle “In December night”.
I think the Milwaukee focus is the Kosciuszko equestrian statue. If I were to venture a guess, I’d say 3 paces away from the monument given the strong association to the number 3 with several parts of the verse.

cw0909

erexere, after this much time i think a lot of the visual clues, have changed a great deal,
so it has become much harder,but it is fun trying

We’ve gathered quite a bit of information on the changes in the various locations.  Here’s my version and summary:
1. San Francisco: No more Betsy Ross pole, relocated Lincoln marker, lots of landscape activity (added soil).
2. Lighthouse Island: very limited tourism access, overgrown, Keeper’s home demolished.
3. Rodanthe: hurricane weather.
6. Corbett: no changes, (verified).
7. Basin Street: new soil work, new tree plantings, flooding
8. Hermann Park: new landscaping and soil additions to rebuild the amphitheater hill.
9. 18 steps west of checkerboard: no changes in a rugged and natural park setting.
10. Kosciuszko Park: removal of stone benches around art object (Girl feeding squirrel stolen in 1977), no other changes.
11. Somerset: bush growth, possible flooding
12. Pickett fence at American Camp: relatively unchanged, fence has been maintained, repaired, and repainted.

Unknown

Unknown:
Cleveland gives such specific directions that I’m sure it would’ve been found immediately in the first year of the hunt if someone had just made the connection to the Cultural Gardens in Cleveland right away.  After 22 years, when Egbert and his pal got there, there seemed to be some intervention or alteration to the absolute location.  They dug up the whole rectangle of ground to find that casque, which I might add was broken from the forces of nature and passing time in an area with heavy drainage

erexere, im from cleve. and as a child to age 12, i lived not far from the gardens,when MLK was liberty blvd
i bought the secret in 83,and had barley looked at it, while i was living in fla.,on vac,fall of 83,i left the book at
my aunts house in ohio,got it back 3 yrs later,then left it aunts house again, anyway the few maybe 50x i looked
at the imgs, i did notice the ohio,and did not put a V with it, knowing the V would not help in finding the casque
unless you  could put the img together,and if you did get to the gardens,you would have to go through the Vs
you would have to have seen the TT, (which i didnt until after egbert) to recognize what the euclid was for, then
the liberity the (L&bell)  would have prob made me turn around and look at the soldiers and sailors monument
anyway i always thought you had to be real close for the V to work and you see and know it is right
LOL, the monument,looking west from euclid, you can see the TT too
http://goo.gl/maps/tIQEp
http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/22148509/4_solution
i live 40 mile west of cleve now,a yr or 2 ago i tried to get to the gardens,couldnt for whatever reason
ill try again this year,maybe do a short vid if i can,no guarantees we’ll see

cw0909, thanks for sharing your story.  I suppose it might not be easy at all even for someone who lives a few miles away.  When the hunt was fresh off the shelf I suppose everyone was in a state of wonder.  Now we’re at a turning point with these forums as we benefit from sharing our thoughts and discoveries.  I find it hard to settle on anything for certain, especially with the images.  They are crafty and only a very good visual positive will drop a person exactly into the key framework that makes the verse look as simple as butter on bread.  I feel that way only about Corbett, since I’ve been there in person.  I feel like I failed to take a picture of the exact angle that matches two or three visuals.  If only I spent a few minutes to line up the shot right.
I think there’s a good chance a casque will be found in San Francisco.  I’m not too excited about Boston, there’s a bunch heavy looking bushes growing in what I think of as the “zone”.  I have a tiny shot at a very kind and generous friend digging in Vancouver BC this summer but that’s based on a very tight time window.  Also, I’ve been very chatty with New Orleans folks who might look into my theory.  Milwaukee still looks like a hot topic.  Maybe we’ll see something happen in the warmer months.

erexere, after this much time i think a lot of the visual clues, have changed a great deal,
so it has become much harder,but it is fun trying

Here’s an update on how I’ve most recently been working on the puzzles.
LLF vs SSF. I think there’s a Large Landmark Feature relating to each Fair Folk puzzle that connects in some way to a Small Subtle Feature. In Chicago, this was the Historic Water Tower (standpipe), which is linked to a small vertical pipe at one end of a 10 foot section of fencing. The verse uses the word “Hush” to represent it’s last line. I think the reason relates to an idiom for hushing people who are making too much noise, “pipe down!”. In Cleveland, I think the Terminal Tower represents a Classical Greek architectural motif where an object or statue is presented at the top of a column, ledge, or pedestal as it is interpreted as if it were “springing” forth. Notice how the sphere sculpture can be used as the terminus in this case to FTS (find the slope) or point to the 10th stone which marked the casque position, (I should explain that I’ve flipped the sphere horizontally to reflect the perspective of looking at the wall from opposite side from where the columns are located)

I’ve enjoyed reworking the solves for Chicago and Cleveland.  I’m close to completing a chart showing the practical application of theLitany of the Jewels for all the locations.  In terms of concrete clues and thematic consistency I’ve ruled out a lot of old theory (i’m speaking of the bulk of my earlier ideas) and in favor of a nice selection of clean and simple ideas.  I understand why people have been stuck, or given up, or resigned to believe some are unrecoverable.  I’m glad I stumbled on so many convoluted iterations in my search for ideas.  While people were generally put off by my hubris, I’m glad to keep a positive outlook.  Someone here is going to find a casque soon.  Something tells me it wont be me, but thats okay.  I hope to share my new notes as soon as a certain idea has been tested and confirmed.  In the meantime, anyone making any progress on anything theyre not at liberty to discuss as far as details go?  Or is that too vague?

Dont forget to bring your
finger puppets
if thats the kind of convention you’re into.

erexere

Here’s an update on how I’ve most recently been working on the puzzles.
LLF vs SSF. I think there’s a Large Landmark Feature relating to each Fair Folk puzzle that connects in some way to a Small Subtle Feature. In Chicago, this was the Historic Water Tower (standpipe), which is linked to a small vertical pipe at one end of a 10 foot section of fencing. The verse uses the word “Hush” to represent it’s last line. I think the reason relates to an idiom for hushing people who are making too much noise, “pipe down!”. In Cleveland, I think the Terminal Tower represents a Classical Greek architectural motif where an object or statue is presented at the top of a column, ledge, or pedestal as it is interpreted as if it were “springing” forth. Notice how the sphere sculpture can be used as the terminus in this case to FTS (find the slope) or point to the 10th stone which marked the casque position, (I should explain that I’ve flipped the sphere horizontally to reflect the perspective of looking at the wall from opposite side from where the columns are located)

Since at the time Digital photography, and photoshop was not available to anybody
to expect this to be done by anybody seems unlikely, remembering especially BP considered this to be an easy hunt.
Too obtuse a clue. it doesn’t seem at all likely

What about this looks like an endorsement for the required use of digital manipulation?
I am suggesting that a person hold up the physical page of book and recognize the wall, columns, and note the position of any objects positioned on any horizontal surfaces: the urns. Substitute the sphere for an urn and anyone should be able to mentally picture the placement and direction indicated in relation to the picture.

erexere

What about this looks like an endorsement for the required use of digital manipulation?
I am suggesting that a person hold up the physical page of book and recognize the wall, columns, and note the position of any objects positioned on any horizontal surfaces: the urns. Substitute the sphere for an urn and anyone should be able to mentally picture the placement and direction indicated in relation to the picture.

I tend to agree with you e… i think it may just require a simple play on words… if you can’t figure out what it is, try-angles!

Glossiphoniidae

I tend to agree with you e… i think it may just require a simple play on words… if you can’t figure out what it is, try-angles!

I bet that one kills at “The Secret” conventions.

Supposing one or more casques are near or not far away from flag poles, what are some different ways to hint for that occurrence?
In Image 6 we have a flag standard being held in the hand of a Spanish explorer, which is the easiest, most straightforward example.
In Verse 9 we have the line “stars move by day” which can mean a lot of things, but can easily be a flag which according to custom would be raised at sunrise and lowered at sunset. Another line “I can still hear the honking” also seems to me a hint for bugle calling such as Reveille.
Verse 7 we have a couple lines “Education and Justice / For all to see”, reminiscent of the words in the Pledge of Allegiance which in San Francisco seemed applicable to the giant pole, the Betsy Ross Memorial Flag Pole that once stood at the Palace of the Legion of Honor.
Verse 8, in what seems impossibly cryptic has me wondering if “from woman, with harpsichord” is sharing the thought that the design of the first US flag is believed from Betsy Ross, but actually from a harpsichord player, Francis Hopkinson.
Of course none of these are yet proven, but I imagine Preiss would want to avoid saying “near a flag” if he thought things would be too easy and so I wouldnt be surprised if a casque ends up being found near a flag.

WhiteRabbit

The Chinese arrive on “the first morning of the first spring day”. But the Chinese spring is different from the European one, being the start of the Chinese New Year in Jan or Feb.

Spring is a season, seasons are based on latitude not calendar date.
Chinese spring is identical to European spring.
New years is an arbitrary date placed in an arbitrary calendar.
Your Eurocentrism, is showing

My most profound idea thus far is that the first line of each of the verses represents a two-fold purpose that initially draws focus in the right direction and once most of the clues come together the exact location of the casque contains an alternate meaning referencing again that first line.
I have found several verses fit this idea.  Verse 1 begins with ‘Fortress north’ and my theory develops around the idea that the Alamo represents the focus of Texas and its conflict with Mexico’s Santa Anna.  It was a great stand but a terrible loss for the early US, which resulted in a return battle, victorious, through the leadership of Sam Houston.  Deciphering clues leading to Hermann Park in Houston, my theory takes me to the base of a light tower at the base ofa hill.  An exact straight line from the pointy apex of the theater building through the four equal sided face center of the cold polished winged metal sculpture representing a division of labor from three tasks, Atropos, one of the three fates of Greek mythology, a spot is found at the base of the Miller Hill.  How does the first line refer to this spot?  A fortress is also a “base” of military operations.  This spot is north of the sculpture.  The first line could also be the last, saying “base of hill to the north”.

WhiteRabbit

From my experience of other hunts, when you start picking out connections between disparate things in the real world, it’s a sign that your pattern-matching faculties are in overdrive.

I believe you are correct, sir.

This seems coincidental.  Last page of Abroad in America (1976) has this picture,
Which is so similar to the plaque I found on Sam Hill on the Corbett boulder, the H.G. Wells medalian has the same kind of writing though its hard to see the details in my photo.

erexere

This seems coincidental.

Meaning superfluous and not important?
or This seems “not” coincidental, meaning likely important?

Oh sorry, and thanks for helping me realise my misuse of the term.
It’s unclear to me.  What I’m wondering is how common are these kinds of “coin” type plaques?  I’ve only noticed these two so far.  I’d like to look into it, thats all.

From my experience of other hunts, when you start picking out connections between disparate things in the real world, it’s a sign that your pattern-matching faculties are in overdrive.

Sign references, confirmed and possible:
“Where M and B are set in stone”
“Socrates, Pindar, Apelles”
“The first chapter”
“Shell, limestone, silver, salt”
“With wind rose”
SELOY acrostic
“Dark forest”
“In July and August”
“By dauntless and inconquerable”
“If Thucydides is / North of Xenophon”
“Near this site”
***************************************************************************
This looks like a popular type of clue. These can be short, inconsequential phrases, often on their own line. Worth looking for more! I’m going to try Googling for
“Not far away” inscription
etc…

forest_blight

Just some random thoughts…
Regarding the month theme, in every image we have a significant number of some sort (communicated via clocks, a carving, warts, flowers, columns, a roman numeral, red balls, and gold bands) corresponding to the month, the birth flower for that month, and the birthstone for that month.
Why? What is the connection between this theme and the immigration theme? How does this fact tie into the solution? And why the redundancy? The jewels I can understand, but once we recognize that they are all 12 birthstones, why do we need to know the birthflower and month also?

Well, we know from the Littany of the Jewels, which fairy is connected to each jewel.  Since some jewels look alike (for example, a topaz could be different colors, and we have had a difficult time figuring out which jewel is in each Image), I think there needs to either be a birth month or a birth flower to signify to us exactly which jewel is in each Image.  Once we know the jewel, we then know the fairy, and the fairy leads us to a location (through the other part of the book).  I do not see a need for BOTH the birth flower and the birth month, but I do see a need for at least one of them.
My take on it:  I think BP thought that putting in the birth flower, or hiding a number in the Images to signify the month, would still not make it “easy” to solve, since numbers can be hidden well, and not many people know different types of flowers.  Image 4 had, in my opinion, an unrecognizable flower, and the number 3 almost impossibly hidden in the form of a triangle on a sphere.  The only way I could tell it was the 3rd month, was the aquamarine in the Image.  So, sorry, I just think it is “stylistic decoration” to put them all in each Image, and BP was not thinking of redundancy.
One additional note to make us think even more about this “redundancy,” and whether it has any significance:  The underside of the top of each casque has a clock painted on it, with a certain time.  The Cleveland casque is too broken to put it together, but I believe the Chicago casque had 5 o’clock, which signifies the 5th month, etc.  So, that is even a further redundancy – time on a clock.  Why would it be painted on the casque?  I have no answer, other than “stylistic decoration.”

FB, I totally agree. I posed the same question a while back… What is the reason for all the birth month related themes? There has to be a connection somewhere. Why go through all the trouble to use them in the images? The fact that there’s 12 months and 12 puzzles has to factor in somehow. Not just to link a jewel to an image.

maybe BP planted one a month for a year and wanted to memorialize it somehow.

Glossiphoniidae

maybe BP planted one a month for a year and wanted to memorialize it somehow.

i think we talked about that way back,
april
march here and so near the lake,with
what is called lake effect, wind or snow,and wind and snow, u would be digging big
chunks of partially frozen dirt, and once dug it would have to be broken up, to fit
back in hole with a box, not impossible but i would think an hour-hour 1/2 work
for a 3ft X 2ft hole, i always thought the book prob took at least 2yr for the bury
and imgs to publish date, because of all the digging and finding parks  ect.
Verse 4 SOLVED – Cleveland, Cleveland Cultural Garden Matches Image 4
sorry i typed april,and should be march

Egbert, a couple questions if you would be so kind..
In your meeting with Preiss, did he give you any indication that there was a way to link verse to painting?
Did he mention or hint as to who might he have given the answers to?

No, he would not talk about how to solve the clues at all.  I believe I outlined everything I could remember in the Cleveland thread.  He mailed photos and other things to JJP, but he did not necessarily tell JJP what they were photos from.  I am thinking, though, that JJP had to know each treasure’s general hiding place – such as the city – since there is a map in basically every Image.

Egbert did you fig out Euclid’s triangle, was  Euclid ave

For Fair Folk’s sake
Goodness first
Compare the phrase “for goodness sake”.    Notice the reversal of sake and goodness.  The origin definition of sake is “crime”.  Good is a first thing as far as theology.  Maybe there should be more invested in looking into things which identify as being “firsts”.

forest_blight

3. For the “land near the window,” the land in question is clearly the outline of Roanoke, which is literally “near the window” in P3. Of the windows in other verses, none of them have “lands” near them, at least not quite so blatantly. So this is a clue for pairing an image with a verse.

Is the “window” in the image not just a painting then, but an exact match of a real window?

Could be, but I doubt it. No need to overthink this — In P3, Roanoke is
literally
the land the near the window.

I abandoned the Roanoke near the window idea while trying an alternate perspective.  Now I’m feeling inclined to think thats the correct intention after all, only I’m considering the notion further in the sense that the “land” is meant to be understood as “island” or specifically a “zone”.

forest_blight

7
I’m afraid I disagree, malt. In each case, BP gives a pretty strong hint without directing you unambiguously to the correct image. In any case, a reference to an image in a verse need not be for the purpose of establishing a pairing, but could also be a way to give a clue that can only be understood once the pairing has been made.

Well I totally agree that those definitely are hints, but I think they are like you said and can only be understood once the pairing has been made.
So far I haven’t seen anything better than the image /Picture ‘Count’ association.
unless anybody can point out somehow that it really doesn’t work.  It looks to me to be the methodology that BP meant for us to use to unequivocally  associate the picture with the verse,
The only thing that remains is why a couple go clockwise and the rest go counter-clockwise.
This is actually sad for me, I was hoping that it would indicate a verse besides verse 7 with SF, because then the SF casque might still be retrievable.
since it indicates Image 1 / verse 7 its another nail in the, SF casque is gone. casket

maltedfalcon

I haven’t seen anything better than the image /Picture ‘Count’ association… It looks to me to be the methodology that BP meant for us to use to unequivocally associate the picture with the verse

But it’s unequivocally wrong about one of the only two solved puzzles.  😛
Image 4, Month 3, Verse 4.
Without explaining that, you’ve no hope of explaining the rest.

This to me represents conclusive visual evidence that any specific visual aspect related to looking at a map and perhaps looking at any scene from a standard eye level position might be turned upside-down and/or reversed “from right to left”.  This is a key piece of information about the Cleveland site that wasn’t covered by Egbert’s reports.
Egbert raised the question about the confusion in perspective where after he hopped up the seven steps the spot to dig was really beneath the 10th stone from LEFT to RIGHT rather than as the verse indicated from RIGHT to LEFT.  This may remain inconclusive, but I wonder if it’s more about the anchoring of a perspective as it’s visually indicated.  The columns in foreground and monolithic wall sketched in the center of the image indicate a perspective from the east entrance side of the Grecean Gardens.  The seven steps up are on the west side of the wall.  Being as the columns and the wall are symmetrical in design, it’s ambiguous in terms of whether the intention is to portray a scene in reverse perspective.  If we assume that all images are in reverse perspective, maybe we’ll start to gather a better sense of how to interpret the “instructions” from the verses.
The SF image does something different, turning only 45 degrees,
If this is reversed the G and h will be read correctly.
In New Orleans, looking straight ahead at the rooftop of Tomb No.21 and looking to the right you see the statue of Morazan.  As you can see, I reversed the image to show a match between one hem and the others.
In San Juan Island, I’ve rotated 90 degrees and reversed to show the side of the rooftop that comes close to fitting the perspective of this photo.  I don’t know if the jewel’s location in the image fits any relative sense for where the casque is located, but I’m guessing the ideal position to see the proper skew of the roof is somewhere to the left of the photographer’s positon,
Here’s my take on Milwaukee with Kosciuszko’s left boot (toe pointing south), which I’m having a hard time assessing the likeness, here’s a few options, flipped and reversed, maybe someone can spot whether it is or isn’t close enough…and if it is, then I think the size of the wrinkled fabric in the image suggests it’s right up close, meaning the casque must be right at the base of the statue!

I was thinking about asking my old neighbor across the street if she ever knew Preiss personally.  It’s been a good 15 years now and I’m sure she doesn’t remember me.  I just stopped a couple times to appreciate her flower garden.  I figure I could bring her some nice Iris bulbs as a gift.  I’m use to talking with 90 year olds, she’s still a young gal in comparison.
I have extreme doubt that she would recall any of Preiss’ activities if she did know him, but you never know, she might have an interesting story about the man.  I’ll bring the book with me, maybe she’ll laugh about it.
Preiss used her stories in his Ultimate Dragon compilation so I figure there’s got to be some kind of personal connection.

If someone were to post a solution to the exact location of a casque, does that cause any problems now that the book has been republished as an e-book?

fox

Let us not also forget The Litany of the Jewels…..which I believe tied in directly to the 2 found casques.
Chicago:  found in Grant Park
People O’ Peace et all & Leprachauns etc….
* from Scotland & Ireland
*LOJ  “Brilliant as eyes of Celtic folk, Cold morning green, their Emerald.”
Chicago has a huge Irish population….actually,  Irish-Americans are the largest ethnic group in Chicago. The city is known for it’s Irish population.
P5 shows the Emerald
————————————————————————————
Cleveland:  found in the Greek Cultural Garden
Centaurs etc…
*  from Hellas/Crete
* LOJ  “The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet Aquamarine, spring-water clear.”
Hellas/Crete = Greece. Greek Cultural Garden.
P4 shows Centaur & Aquamarine
—————————————————————————–
on to P6:
Hadas etc…
*  from Iberia
* LOJ  “The Hads of Iberia: Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower.”
Hads of Iberia.  Where is Iberia? Spain
P6 shows Spanish Conquistador & Sapphire (as well as what looks like Florida which was discovered by the Spaniard Ponce de Leon at a place called St Augustine)

I had trouble with the LotJ at first, but when I started getting more into it, people seemed not to perk up to its application. Fox, and anyone else, is there any other supporting notions out there that lead people in this direction or is everyone waffling on the idea and decidedly against the idea that anything outside the verse and image may be applicable?
Also, not having my book handy at the moment, I wonder if fox injected the word “Crete” in the above or was that a quote from the book. I recall the Hellas references but not the “Hellas/Crete”. It seems to me the “Goodness First” idea might get some traction if I study the book further and think on Cleveland as a model for how other locations work. Im referrering to the possibility that First Lady “Crete” Garfield was a big clue to getting “warmer” to the multiple country themed Cultural Gardens near the Garfield tomb.

I don’t think the LOJ are the key to cracking this puzzle. They may offer some neat insight on the “back end” when we have the solve, but I don’t think that we’re suddenly going to go “OHHHH” based on anything in the LOJ.

The clue is Hesperides. Garden of…

Could be all in your approach. It may be useful if you appreciate that line of inquiry, but not necessary. Saying its applicable on the back end is silly. If its perceivable, applicable by any notion to the proximity of a casque relevant to that jewel/culture and the particular words used in the LotJ, then it isnt just an afterthought…its an implicit design strategy.

A single data point is nothing. Considering the Grant Park is not particularly Irish I find it hard to believe that SOMETIMES the LOJ points to the city, SOMETIMES it points to the park.
It’s very possible that the LOJ points to the city, but with a few exceptions we know the cities. One of the things I’ve always felt strongly about is that if the clue works differently for different poems, you’re likely reaching for a connection.
Also recall that the Cleveland location was suggested by JJP (it’s the only one he’s admitted to watching while buried), who did not write the LOJ or likely have anything to do with it.
edit: I think there are a lot of things about these hunts that make sense “on the back end” once we know the solution. We’re learning more about the Cleveland solve even now, 10 years later. OK, so it’s just the image of a window that we missed, but still!
edit: as has always been discussed, the “cultural” connection to each city is very weak. Boston is Irish more than anything, why is the Irish one in Chicago? etc.

Yeah, those cultural connections seem to be a bit sideways.
My thought on LotJ is that it is mostly relevant as a hint to point of placement and not a general clue to city or a necessity for culture matching. There are visuals clues in the image to help you with that.
Cleveland uses bound, and cherish to form a sense of looking for a dig area that is like an object up on a mantel: bounded in a rectangle plot of dirt in a raised bed (cherished…put up on a pedestal or mantel).
There is room to look into this further. Lets not abandon the possibility so pessimistic. I have a pretty interesting list, heavily edited and growing. Shall I PM it to anyone?

erexere

Casque 1, maybe a better way to put it is to look at the table and notice the rose and the clock.  When you’re done eating you’re food (chinese), what is SWEET like the smell of a rose when it is TIME to pay?  A fortune cookie.  What location in San Francisco is most associated with “fortune”.  Palace of the Legion of Honor.

I’m just curious why you would think the Palace of the legion of honor has any association with fortune?
To answer your question What location in San Francisco is most associated with Fortune?
That would actually be the japanese tea garden in Golden Gate park.
This is the location the fortune cookie (actually a japanese treat) was introduced to the United states (about the 15-20 years before the San Francisco earthquake, if my SF history knowledge is accurate)
and of course the second runner up would be benkyodo (not sure I have the spelling right)  bakery in SF (Japan town) where they made the cookies.

I haven’t researched the topc of fortune cookies.  I was just remembering my childhood whennId get a fortune cookie at the Chinese restaurant.
The Palace of the Legion of Honr represents a fortune purely n the monetary sense.  Its an open minded shift but still relevant because its based on findi ng a particular view on that which symbolizes purity related to mercury and silver, “gold”.  You see the Goldengate Bridge from the bench I’ve located.  Are you aware of the use of quicksilver in gold finding?
E: Well well, you’re historical knowledge is right on the money.  The Chinese nabbed up and rebranded that Japanese cracker, filling those clam shaped num nums with their pearls of wisdom!  (Preiss was clever!)
You’re point on the Tea Garden is a good option, but only if the fortune cookie idea is designed to push the cultural reference that far.  Instead, I think the Japanese/Chinese culture reference serves it’s purpose as flavor to the Palace/Terminus/Flagpole/Golf Course/Bench/Golden Gate/Alcatraz setting, all set along a roughly 45 degree line traveling from SW to NE on the map.

yes, I live in the mother-lode – gold mines all around here, and mercury wasn’t used in gold finding but in refining
BTW the golden gate is visible from most places at the palace, more-so in 1980 when the trees were much shorter.
the palace of the legion of honor is actually more associated with sugar than fortune.

Has anyone noticed that page 199 has a sketch of a train with the number ’82’ on it’s nose?  Echoes the Verse 1 lines “take your task / to the nine eight two” doesn’t it?
Page 113 caught my attention, the foreground die read first is “8” as a sum of 1 + 3 +4, and the second die in the background is a partially covered “4”.  Together that might be read as “84”.  Further in the background we have a dog racing book, I remember those well from spending time with my dad in 1981 at the Multnomah County Kennel Club.  I know this must seem awfully convenient sounding but there is little between as just 7 miles along Interstate-84 is Historic Highway No. 2’s Exit 22.  I wager, BP did a little gambling the night the buried a casque in Corbett.  Is it possible there’s more sketches in the book to help lead us to useful insights

maltedfalcon

I submit to you that none of the m were correct because we didnt find the casques yet.

I don’t think that’s fair at all.
Take the Children’s Zoo for example. There is every indication that the casque was there, but it’s gone now. The “center of four alike” and “three-winged, split and slight” probably refers to some marker that was moved or removed since the casque was buried, leaving it impossible to find. Wilhouse put so much effort into that dig — even pulling out the GPR, if I recall correctly — and it’s just a write-off now, as the site has been completely renovated.
If a casque is gone — or its markers are gone, leaving it impossible to find — and a solution would have otherwise been correct, what would you prefer to do? Keep trying other solutions?
I’d rather see where the casque
was
, so I can appreciate what BP was thinking when he wrote the puzzle. That’s where the excitement is for me now. I don’t think many more of those “aha” moments are likely to come without help, though, unfortunately.

Wow so many good points. May I suggest we take a vote? Perhaps the best way to move forward is as a group and if the group feels we should not ask JJP then we should all agree to not pursue it.
Also, can I get some feed back on my “memorial for the secret idea” especially from the older members? We may want to hold off until at least one more is found or maybe wait for more time to go by.

Reguardless of fair.
Both BPs wife and JJP have said they are not interested in being contacted about the hunt.
So who are you going to ask for clues?
or do you feel its ok to go ahead and bother them again because we haven’t made progress lately.

I’m not against hints on principle, but I’m against contacting BP’s relatives, I don’t believe there’s any point in contacting JJP, and I can’t think of a better memorial than the book and the ongoing quest for the casques.
I doubt we’ll find another, though I wouldn’t say it’s impossible.

I agree that there are still locations out there, where we have not yet figured out if the landmarks have been moved.  We have no idea where the Canadian treasure is hidden – Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto?  We also have not narrowed down or ruled out St. Louis, New York, Boston, Salt Lake City, or Portland (just kidding on that last one – sorry Erexere – but I guess anything is possible).

erexere

What about this looks like an endorsement for the required use of digital manipulation?
I am suggesting that a person hold up the physical page of book and recognize the wall, columns, and note the position of any objects positioned on any horizontal surfaces: the urns. Substitute the sphere for an urn and anyone should be able to mentally picture the placement and direction indicated in relation to the picture.

yes exactly that above.
people wouldn’t do that,

To a degree, there are examples of obscurity in the literary references. While it doesnt seem necessary to recognize their sources, I wonder if its helpful nonetheless. I think Preiss had a gift for employing these strange references in very creative ways. Whether his puzzles were made to be simple as reported, I dont think we have enough to go on.
As for obscure word definitions, I think catherwood is correct in her judgement. Each time Ive looked too narrowly at the etymology of a word it would result in rabbitholery. Alternate word definitions, or uncommon word usage shouldnt be categorized as obscure.

Goonie, this is a great place to analyze the tribes with the puzzles. I have a couple of them linked up, but not as well as you, and not all of them yet. I’m not as familiar with the format of these boards and navigating, as I am with FB. (Hence why I posted there). But I have library books with some images that I could share. I’ll see what I can figure out and accomplish over the next couple of days.
Thank you so much for sharing…I look forward to great discussions!

Goonie68

After a nudge from another hunter to go down a path or look at a new way to view the puzzle, I have a theory about the 12 tribes of Israel and how it relates to the Secret. The theory introduces the tribes and links to the puzzle. I am sharing this in hopes that it might bring new ideas and a different approach in solving these puzzles. I suspect that the tribes play apart in the final resting area of the casque. With the thanks to GManTexas for helping with this theory.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wh7seJZ8T-Kd4w_v7_fYsN9FvKKPyreURQi6cHfJklo/edit?usp=drivesdk

Great job Goonie, I like it. I might have been the one that gave you a nudge as I was the one who posted about this on the FB thread last week. I too think each puzzle is linked to a tribe. And also agree that I’m not sure how it’s going to help us solve, but I think it will lead to great thoughts, like your post, which will eventually lead to a solve. Thank you so much for sharing!

leighanny

Great job Goonie, I like it. I might have been the one that gave you a nudge as I was the one who posted about this on the FB thread last week. I too think each puzzle is linked to a tribe. And also agree that I’m not sure how it’s going to help us solve, but I think it will lead to great thoughts, like your post, which will eventually lead to a solve. Thank you so much for sharing!

Yes, and thank you for the nudge! I am not sure if it will solve a puzzle but I think the burial spot might have a connection to the tribe of the city.

Frisco

TBD.
I’m not against connecting the images to the verses in some way, I just can’t figure out how 6pm in any way constitutes the afternoon. :p

Yet the 12th hour is still midnight?

Twenty-fourth hour or zeroth hour don’t sound as poetic.

Based only on the LotJ and the image, I think it’s possible to find a general regional location.
Using “chaste” as a hint about moral conduct, and the letters G and h as a hint to reverse the image but also to think of initials G and H, we have Gates of Heaven/Hell. Failed moral conduct = Prison/Alcatraz and the gate on the image in the background looks like the best choice for a prison motif. Successful or good conduct = Heaven or crossing the Golden Gate which looks like the symmetrical shape bound between teh letters G and h. I think these two points are linked to the map and result in fixing the orientation of the table top/watch/rose as a corresponding location on the map for Lands End and the Palace of the Legion of Honor.

Egbert

I think you are referring to the cup he was holding.  That was the Italian fountain next to the Greek Garden.  I don’t think we ever figured out the helmet.

see image 4 thread.

what if “seeking the columns” is universal?  Preiss could’ve sought interesting column-type landmarks and built them into his journey from points A to B.  Obviously that’s a given in the Cleveland solution.  Perhaps it doesn’t need to be said for the others.  Where there isn’t a good Greek column available a tall and straight type tree might serve in it’s place.

Great job, GMan! I enjoyed this.

gManTexas

I would have never cut the book up directly, although photocopies would be fair game. This is where resizing would be easy, set the photocopier to 120% and go.

Now is this true?
I am trying to remember. The patent for photocopy enlargement was late 1978 and the book came out only 4 years later….
But I do not remember using a whizwheel to calculate photo copy enlargments until the late 80s 1988 or so… and I had access to high end copiers.
I do not know when the scaling feature became standard on copiers but I think I would be surprised to find it was there when the book came out.

maltedfalcon

Now is this true?
I am trying to remember. The patent for photocopy enlargement was late 1978 and the book came out only 4 years later….
But I do not remember using a whizwheel to calculate photo copy enlargments until the late 80s 1988 or so… and I had access to high end copiers.
I do not know when the scaling feature became standard on copiers but I think I would be surprised to find it was there when the book came out.

You may be right, although it may have been that time frame that enlargement became available. Reduction had been around for a while though.
Here’s some nostalgia for you!
https://xeroxnostalgia.com

erexere

Okay shecrab…telling folks to expect me to go away is just a neutral statement then?
It just seems odd and shows a lack pf human compassion that you think its okay to go around telling people that someone has been around long enough…im not saying that about you am I?

In the interests of trying to keep the verse and image threads less cluttered with overall questions of methodology, I’d like to move at least this branch of the discussion here to this thread.  Let’s keep the verse stuff in the verse threads and the image stuff in the image threads, and everything else, elsewhere.
She isn’t telling you to go away.  Rather, like me (and others), she keeps trying to find new ways of trying to communicate with you.
It’s frustrating, Eric.  Because, you do seem to enjoy a sort of reverse logic at times, where you will take a multi-layered free association and think that it’s simple, but you completely ignore the concrete clues that are directly tied into most of these proposed casque sites.  If you were building a persuasive case, you’d be saying things like, “Yes, I understand that there are these concrete clues at, say, the FOY park, but here’s even *more* concrete evidence for why I think it’s in Oregon.”  And you stitch together photographs at the angle you want, and you rotate the images to whatever angle you need, draw little yellow lines on them, and you try to make the case that, say, the “blob” looks like Pac-man, or the boy in the clock looks like a steeple.  None of the other solutions have required anywhere near this level of convolution to make the clues fit.  What we’re saying — with varying levels of directness — is that your methodology is not appropriate for this puzzle.  There’s two casques’ worth of solid evidence that the more indirect your interpretations get, the far less likely you will be to find a casque.
The problem now has nothing to do with who’s right and wrong.  If you’ll go back through the history of this board and look at how disagreements and ideas have been dealt with in the past, you’ll see that most of these discussions have been productive and respectful.  Evidence is presented; criticism is presented; the cycle repeats.  I like your enthusiasm, and (sometimes) your creativity.  It’s good to have someone to go against the grain and bring a fresh perspective.  Thing is, though, you don’t absorb this criticism productively.  There’s very little, “I see what you’re saying… let me think about that.”  You just keep the firehose of images and interpretations coming.  The resistance you’re getting lately has a lot more to do with how little you seem to be interested in actually engaging in a real conversation.  There are only so many times we can say the same thing before we get tired of trying to get through to you.  I’m afraid that here, even spelling it out, that you’ll make some crack about me not understanding analogies on the SAT or something.  (And since you were wondering, I made a good living teaching the SAT for a while, so, yes: I understand them.)
This isn’t about “resentment” or a “lack of human compassion.”  No one is “berating” you.  It’d be great for you to just slow the heck down and start thinking through some of these things that people raise with you.  For as much time as you’ve put into this hunt, they’ve put in more.  And I am certain that they’re every bit as smart as you — so, really, they might actually have something valid to say on the subject.  The reason they haven’t dug a casque up yet has much less to do with their methodology being wrong, than the fact that many of the literal signposts and confirmers just aren’t there anymore.  Heck, even the world had changed before
very first casque
was dug up — BP had to clarify a clue to the finders, because some of the trees were no longer there — and this was less than a year after he buried it!  You have got to keep that context in mind, always, because there is always the possibility that you’re basing hours of your life (and potentially hundreds of your dollars on archaeologists, etc.) on a theory that has a flawed premise at its foundation.
I like this hunt, and I like the idea of maybe one day seeing another casque get unearthed.  But this isn’t the way to go.