Willhouse,
If you took a bulldozer to the area, there’s not muchmore you can do.  Thank you for all your effort!
Shseverin11

what did they do with all the animals? are they going to have another zoo?
do you know anything about the sculpture garden? where was it in relation to the zoo? and the train tracks? and the fountains?
i saw one picture of these kids playing in, it looked like several fountains, and the stone looked like the stone in the picture. do you know the names of those fountains? somehow i lost that picture.
maybe “perspective” meant some distance from the zoo.
they still have the train right? and you know where the old one was located.
if everything is still there but the zoo, there is still hope, right?
“what we take to be our strongest tower of delight” –could be our family and friends that we celebrate with on new year’s eve.
‘tho that had reminded me of a fountain with the next line “falls gently”—
i know that’s the quote from Melville, but it’s still part of the riddle too i think
please say they didn’t take out the fountains.
and that there is a light post close to robert burns,
i think burns is in the rose garden, was that part destroyed?

slappybuns

and the atropos key…atropos was the goddess of fate, and the cutter of the thread of life, or something like that

fox

the columns in the P may refer to the Mecom-Rockwell fountain & Colonnade which is at the entrance to Hermann Park.

I was looking at what the introduction says about this lot. They arrived on “a caravan of magic-wrought carpets”. “The fabulous carpet weaving techniques of the Djinn and Peri were admired and then mastered by the people who were their neighbours”. Reminded me of the
Fates
.
“The ancient Greeks thought that the divinities knew everything including what would happen in the future. The Fates laid out a plan for each person at birth that was fixed and unchangeable. The Fates carried out the divine plan of Zeus by drawing lots and tying the resulting allotments into threads of life for each mortal born. These threads are woven together, actually knotted at different points and in different ways. Then the fabric of life is cut off at death and the end of life for that mortal.”
http://www.fjkluth.com/fates.html
I’d agree that
Atropos
, one of the Fates, seems a plausible interpretation, with the
Miller Theatre
located close to the gem in the picture…or perhaps the corresponding position beside the pillar behind, with its “bobbin” top. (The theatre was named after Jesse Wright Miller who appropriately was a “cotton broker”.)
http://www.milleroutdoortheatre.com/past-and-present/
“In 1922, the original theater was designed by William Ward Watkin as an amphitheater surrounded by
twenty Corinthian-style limestone columns
“
“…elder spirits of Araby, monstrous Deevs…”
Deev is probably related to Diva (goddess), also used for performers.
“…in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia’s Mountains…”
Statue of Oliver Twist. Twister…?
(I know there’s the zoo columns, but incidentally, these were the ones from the original Miller theatre.)
http://www.milleroutdoortheatre.com/art … mann-park/

Some thoughts on Houston, after rereading the entire V1 thread today.
1. The disrupted stones in P8 may be a clue that one has to dig
under
stones. I can picture BP visiting the center of the four (alike) compounds in the Houston CZ, carefully removing some of the smaller granite stones, burying his casque, and then replacing them just like he found them. My point is that the casque need not be buried directly beneath one of the five (?) holes.
2. We have all been assuming that the quote from
Pierre
refers either to snow or to a leaf, because the quote goes “What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather.” Besides a leaf, there is one other object in this sentence that falls gently, and one likely to be found in a zoo – a feather.
3. I had forgotten that there is (was?) a geyser in Hermann Park. Precisely where was it, and does it still exist? Minus trees, would it have been visible from the CZ? If so, perhaps line-of-sight limitations can help narrow down the casque’s location. It would seem exceedingly coincidental to bury a treasure within sight of a geyser, use the word “spout” in the verse, and have them be unrelated.
4. Wilhouse – in August, 2005 you were trying to get copies of the original CZ blueprints. They had been sent to Seattle at the time. Am I alone in thinking these could be
extraordinarily helpful
, and should be pursued with all due diligence?
5. Anyone still interested in placing an ad in the Houston Chronicle classifieds asking for early 1980s photos of the CZ? Would the Hermann Park official website be willing to post something?

sorry folks, I was just goofing with the 982 flamingos since wilhouse commented on the llama name.
am still quite sure the 982 is the train.

Byron had the gems in his safe. Egbert got his for finding the Cleveland cask.
They were temporarily lost after his death. Maybe no one checked the safe.
I understand Mrs. P has relocated them.
wilhouse

I was under the impression that he cleared out his box and brought the jewels, cash, and anything else home with him since he had almost forgotten it was all there in the first place.

In December Night
Is BP telling us he needed to sneak onto the treasure ground at night in December when people would be least likely to notice his activities?  Does the point of this line serve the distinct purpose to inform us that there will be a high degree of visibility on the spot?
Was the thing falling gently a leaf or a snowflake or a star?

Since this is the verse thread, I wanted to post my entire thought process on the verse so people can see how I got where I was. Nothing is written in stone, it’s just “one person’s thoughts”…
Fortress north
There’s a church just north of the zoo / Hermann Park that looks just like a medieval fortress
Cold as glass
The Glassel Art institute is just south of the above church as you walk towards the zoo / Hermann Park.  The building is made up of glass blocks that look like ice.
Friendship south
There is a park just south of the CZ I’ve been told was called Friendship Park, though I’ve never seen that sign personally.  There’s also a city south of the Park called Friendswood.  Of course the Indians who lived in Texas in their name were called the Friendly Indians.
Take your task To the number Nine eight two
Keep going south from Glassel and you run into the train in Hermann Park
Through the wood
The verse has been driving you south. If you continue south you go “through the woods” meaning the zoo
No lion fears
Well, if you go south through the zoo you go right by the great cats area. You have no fear because they are in a moat?
In the sky the water veers
Keep going south and you run into the children’s zoo. The first thing you encounter is the aqua tunnel, which is underground. As you go down you look overhead and the water is above you and separates (veers) into two paths (left and right).  Once you’ve gotten to where the great cats area is you can no longer see any of the fountains in the park.
Small of scale
At this point you come up out of the aqua tunnel and are in the children’s zoo, a small scale zoo. You are also at a small bridge. Note you are still heading south.
Step across
There is a small bridge at this point which takes you to the center of the CZ.  Could also, with the next line, mean to go across the CZ, which would be south.
Perspective should not be lost
Purely conjecture, but it might mean don’t leave the CZ – don’t leave the small of scale area.  Note that if you continue south you actually leave both the CZ and the entire zoo.
In the center of four alike
This is where the directions get specific and fuzzy.  I originally thought it meant to go back to the “center” of the 4 CZ zoo lands (and I’ve dug there and there’s nothing). Others have conjectured that it’s in the center of 4 “cinder block men”. I just don’t know.
Small, split, Three winged and slight
I’m going to put this on my tombstone.  Some have conjectured these 4 things are NOT the four alike. No idea
What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight
Quote from Hermann Melville’s Pierre (Preiss was a book publisher and well read as we all know). Might just be a further hint to Hermann Park. Don’t know
Falls gently In December night
No good answer.  Once I thought it meant temperature so I dug by a thermometer that hung on the building.  Snow? There’s some data that says that there was a llama named snowflake but nothing I’ve ever seen. The llama pen is in the same area.
Looking back from treasure ground There’s the spout!
If this points you to the location, there’s two spouts you could see. One is the elf fountain which means the treasure is back there near the southern exit. The other is the spout in the Aqua tunnel, which again means that the treasure is back in that same location.
A whistle sounds.
If you are back in the southern exit area of the CZ, you are right by the medical center and various businesses.  There was a bread factory back there that had a whistle that blew at break and quitting time. The ambulance area of the medical center was back there.
wilhouse

I think we need more period photos of the CZ. One of these days we’ll find it. My money is on the “four alike” being cinderblock men in a temporary arrangement in a soil area.

Shecrab, the four lands in the CZ were North America, Latin America, Asia and Africa.  I don’t remember anything that looked like that tree, but it’s been a while. I’ll look at my old photos.
I don’t believe there were any kangaroos or koalas,  but I’ll review my pics.
Apparenly according to the old zoo director, in 1982, the back gate was open pretty late (11pm) and they said sometimes they didn’t even close it. The zoo was free and anyone could just walk in.  No sneaking needed.  Also, there was lots of construcion going on, so Preiss wouldn’t even need to bring his own shovel..
wilhouse

Forest old friend good to see you.
Back on page 29 is your marked up photo of those little guys.  I never found a good pic with 4 of them.
You’re right, there’s some photo out there which will solve this hunt.
wilhouse

Oh yeah, I forgot I did that! Damn fine work, if I say so myself…

Good luck  🙂

Wilhouse,
Your picture 65 reminds me of the mound in the back of Image 8.  I think you’re getting very close…

Wilhouse,
Quick question–if you go to what you are calling the berms (mounds in the back of Image
–what can you see in each direction?  Looking south you see the Children’s Zoo–correct?  What do you see looking north?

I think you mean picture 64, and yes, I agree that these look like the berms in Pic 8.
I will check with John Donaho. He told me once, but I don’t remember.
wilhouse

Fenix, you have a keen eye and again I find myself thinking as you do!!
Ironically, my last trip to the zoo was with Mr. Donaho.  He is very interested and helpful.  He was surprised to see that picture of himself.
John gave us the locations of all the globe lights.  The ones you see hanging down from the auditorium are hanging and not on poles.  There is also no dirt around these.  However, the light poles that the globes were on still exist, and on Monday I will be checking a few of them out.  There’s only about 3 or 4 places in the CZ that have light/globe poles and dirt. We will systematically try them all.
As to the fountain, I have thought the same thing.  There is very little south of the fountain, but enough so that eliminating it is great.  If the spout is the fountain, then that helps narrow down the area.
However, there are two other possibilities for the spout.   One is the permanent drinking fountains in the CZ, which are still there.
The other one that I like is the return pipe in the aqua tunnel pool.  You should be able to see it from the fountain area.  It is a pipe which returned clean water to the pool like a waterfall.  Note that one definition of spout is: “a tube, mouth, or pipe through which liquid is released or discharged”
that fits the return pipe exactly.
Two of the globe lights are by the nursery.  That is where Snowflake lived till he was moved.  I know that BP tried to use permanent features for clues, but I think a Pierre and Snowflake camel in the CZ is too coincidental for verse 1.
Look at picture 65 in the digging in the zoo set:
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js … mbdmzaNnqQ
that shot is from standing in the center of the 4 compounds, in the circular area with bricks.  It is looking south. Note the bushes directly in the pathway in the little planter? That is where the Elf fountain was, in that planter.  Now look at picture 66. That is looking north from the elf fountain.  In the distance is where the pond is that the return pipe is located.  20 years ago, none of those bushes or big trees were there and you could easily see the spout from the elf fountain.
I’ll be digging up the elf fountain on Monday, if it’s deep enough to hide the cask. Wish me luck!!
wilhouse

Good luck wilhouse….bring us home another casque to be marked off of our list.

I have only cultural rememberances about the Llamas named Pierre and Snowflake. Some people remember them others don’t.
What I do have is a photo that I posted of the nursery with a llama in the pen next to it.  On the left side of the hatchery (building to the left of the nursery), there is a pen with a llama sign in front of it.  If you stand in front of the hatchery, to the left is a llama pen and to the right is a llama pen. You could say the llama pen is split.  To the left of the left llama pen is the dwarf (small?) donkey pen. Across from the llama pen was the North American pen where there were the birds (three winged?).  I think I posted the signs of the llama and donkey somewhere.
As for small of scale being small fishes or such, that’s entirely possible.  I’d still be in the CZ, which is where they are located, but perhaps take a different route once there.
The question is, if the tower of delight is the concession stand, then any route I take should end me up there.  Does Fall gently in December night refer to the concession stand or something else?  If I can figure that out, it should point me to the spot the treasure is at.
wilhouse

This is my solve for verse 1:
Fortress north cold as glass = Asian pavilion , looks like a fortress to me and cold as glass could refer to a diamond ( ice), building is kind of diamond shaped and cold could be for isolated like cold war
Friendship south take your task = Ronald McDonald house ( 1st one built was in Houston)
So he is standing at the south end entrance of Hermann Park and starts to proceed north bound
To the number nine eight two = the little train that runs around the park, so towards the train station
Through the wood no lion fear = goes north through the Zoo
In the sky the water veers = The water that shot up out of lake McGovern
Small of scale Step across = Cross the small bridge by the train depot heading north
Perspective should not be lost = the long reflection pool north of the obelisk
In the center of four alike = the pioneer obelisk the four alike are the fountains around the obelisk
Small split three winged and slight = each of the fountains that surround the obelisk have 3 not so tall streams of water
What we take to be our strongest tower of delight falls gently = the fountain at the SW corner of the obelisk has the tallest stream of water
In December night= He seems to be doing his digging late in the day and in December I would expect the leaves to be gone
Looking back from the treasure ground there’s the spout a whistle sounds = So he is standing looking at the spot where the treasure lays and behind him the first thing he mentions is the spout which is again the fountain at the SW corner of the obelisk and the next thing is the sound of the train . I can’t say for certain but I think most trains would make a sound if they were to warn people by the obelisk as they go over the bridge
So what is he looking at is the big question.
I believe he is standing there looking at an oak tree ( lots of symbols of that in the image) and not just any oak tree but the oak tree with the burl on the trunk located on the south edge of the pathway that goes east from the obelisk. If you were facing the spot to dig ( which would be the west side of the tree) then the obelisks fountain would be directly behind you along with the train track and train.
If you stand on that pathway by the burled oak and you look towards the obelisk you can see that “L” outline and that diamond shape in the image by the genies waist , this is made by the concrete slabs on the north edge of the pathway closer to the obelisk.
To me the genies head gear represents the burl and the fact that there is a twisting in the body represents the twisting of the wood in the burl.

According to the website, that one has been in Fort Wayne for 30 years. Here are a couple of more shots of him. Perhaps wilhouse can show these to the zoo director in Houston and ask if something similar was there?

I don’t need to show the pictures to him, I know for a fact that they were there.  While I don’t have any photos of them, they were sprinkled around the park. There were lions, rhinos, and other animals.  There were several in the CZ, but they are all gone, and replaced with permanent drinking fountains.  There are no drinking fountains close to the area I think the casque is, there is one by the restrooms and the concession stand.
We’ve hypothesized before that the lion drinking fountain is the No Lion Fears reference.  But it’s also anecdotal, as we’ll never know.
wilhouse

Bingo! This is the one that once graced the Houston Zoo:
http://www.houstontx.gov/hr/savvypages/archives/fall04/fall04_HermannPark.htm
From a forum discussing separate facilities for patrons of different races during segregation, I found this:
“I had a very similar experience at Herman Park Zoo. I was 4 at the time, and I was there with my mom who was chaperoning my sister’s first grade class. We took a break for water, and all the kids lined up at one of the water fountains. I don’t think they are still there today, but one fountain was a lion’s head, and the other was a hippo or something like that. I remember thinking how stupid those kids were because there was no one at all at the other fountain, so I decided to outsmart them and use the unoccupied one. To this day, I can still feel the sting of the kids laughing at me for the horrible thing I had done.”

Turns out these things were everywhere. I found evidence of similar lion fountains in Zelienople, PA; Rye, NY; Salt Lake City, UT; Norwich, CT; Coupeville, WA; and somewhere in central Florida.

forest_blight

Through the wood
No lion fears
I am still not satisfied with the theories on these lines. If the verse leads us on a trail to the treasure, then the phrase could refer to anything physically between the 982 and the aquatunnel.

I don’t recall if this was brought up before, but I remember going to the zoo when I first moved to Houston in 1982 and I remember there being water fountains that were in the shapes of lions. The fountain was in its mouth and you had to stick your head through the jaws to drink. Do you know if those are still there Wilhouse? Not sure if they were in the children’s zoo or the regular zoo but if there was one somewhere on a wooded walking path through the zoo it might explain these lines. Of course I was pretty young in 1982 so I might not be remembering correctly. Maybe something to ask the zoo director though.

That’s fascinating, SoonerFan! All the more reason to find some pictures of the zoo from way back.
Did it look like this one in Ft. Wayne?
http://jordan.fortwayne.com/ns/features/zoo/98zoo/lion.php

Yes! I believe it was in the same style as that one. Nice find FB!

wow, wilhouse.  those are all great ideas and seem to fit the V to a T  ::) .  I cant seem to access your pictures though.  One time it tells me I am a member of the group, then it says I’m not.  I try to re-join the group but it wont let me.
I sure would love to see those pictures.

that did the trick, thanks wilhouse.  looking thru the photos as I type.  One thing thought of….the column at the NA exhibit looks like a pretty good match,,,in one of the pix you had looking thru the entrance, I noticed a pathway with a wooden fence.  Does this path curve?  if so, could the tic-marks in the P (thought to be rr tracks) be the fence?
how many of the “bird cutouts” where there around the center of the 4 compounds?  3…?….I hope.  Hoping that was our 3 winged.  The circle pic you had of the center of the compounds, it looked almost like there once were trees there.  Is there anywhere within the circle that you could dig?
Last but not least (for now atleast) how far away from the “center of the 4 compounds” is our trusty #982?
keep up the good work folks, I smell a Houston casque about ready to be found  8)

Fox, et al.
I have created an album with all the pictures I took. The files names are the same and I added some descriptions.
I don’t think you’ll have to get an ID here, it’s the same place Egbert posted his pictures.
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js … mbdmzaNnIQ
wilhouse

Fox, answers:
Yes, the pathway through NA curves. The tick marks could be the fence, or they could signify the pathway itself.  It is really in disrepair, as it has been closed since 2000.
When you stand in the center of the 4 compounds, on the circular spot, to the west you can see 3 bird cutouts.  There are more when you go around each compound, I never counted them all, but you can only see 3 from the center area.
The circular object is a mystery.  Sorry about the shade – I didn’t realize you can’t see it all.  If you stand on the north side of the object, looking directly south toward the auditorium, that’s how the photo is oriented.  Directly south is the Elf Fountain (“there’s the spout”?).  Looking down on the circular object, there are 6 dirt areas roughly circular, including the one under the rock.  The two nearest the “bottom” in the photo are really not dirt areas. They are concrete with about 1″ of dirt over it.  The same is true under the rock.  We are convinced that in the past, there were three large rocks there.  In the very center is a concrete pad. We don’t know what was there.  To the left and right of the large rock at the “top” of the photo are circles of dirt.  I dug holes there about 2 feeet deep.  In each hole, at 2 feet deep, is a layer of pebble, thicker than I could dig through with my hand trowel. Since both holes had the same pebble layer at the same depth, I don’t think those holes had been disturbed by someone putting treasure there. What we don’t know is when that object was placed there. Perhaps the whole thing wasn’t there in 1982. We are still researching
In 1982, the 982 train was right in front of the zoo gate (there’s a picture of the 1981 gate in the link). You can look on the 1975 map and get a good idea.  So if you start at the 982 train, and go directly south, through the zoo, to the children’s zoo, it is probably between 1/4 to 1/2 mile.
I’ll be happy to answer any other questions.
wilhouse

bigmattyh

Thank you Eric, for always reminding me of this funny clip.  (PG-13 language alert.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflRbv3HA0E

LOL!

erexere

I haven’t watched SP for years.  I would be caught up if it wasn’t for this treasure hunt.

Oh man, that made my sides hurt.

Do I come off schizo?  I blame sleep deprivation and beer.  At least I’m shitting out ideas that can be pursued rather han eating Chefs Salty Balls.

Fenix, your questions have hit to the very heart of my biggest dilemma in finding this cask.
Right now there is nothing in the “roads” between the compounds, except the picture of the bricked in circle.  I went to the archives to try and get some pictures of the area, and I did get some, but not excatly what we are looking for.  Interesting, there was a camel in the childrens zoo during that period…named Wanda.
I agree with you about the crosses, and I am trying to get some pictures of them to see where they really were. they are not now where they were then.
I just don’t know where to look.  We do not have anything else to go on for the quote by Herman Melville. I looked around for something called Pierre, or Melville, but nothing.  I really think it might just be a pointer to Herman.
I will post some photos I took of some articles in the library tomorrow.
Keep asking questions, Fenix, it’s a big help.  The zoo Director said if I can give him a rational reason to dig in a certain specific area, he will let me, but he’s not gonna just let me or anyone come in and dig up his zoo.  We have to make our shot a good one!!
I also believe there is something in Pic 8 we are missing that would help. I like your idea of the star representing the 4 compounds.
wilhouse

in the CZ there were “cinder block” figures.  these figures were all different shapes and sizes. some small, some large, some slight, some look like they had “wings”…
take a look at the photos I posted of the old cz, you can see them.
wilhouse

Through the wood
– Atrpos Key, donated by Patricia Woodward
No lion fears
– Lions are the king of beasts and fear nothing. This is BP’s creative way of referencing Sam Houston’s horse Leo.
In the sky the water veers
– Mecom Fountain
Small of scale
– Houston Museum of Natural Science
Step across
– Go to the next block passed the Museum
Perspective should not be lost
– This line is key, it has nothing to do with the Reflection pool. It ties in with Image 8 visual clues. The image shows that the ruby can be seen by the Persian man (Miller Outdoor Theater stage), The Smoke Spout (Sam Houston Monument), The Camel (Miller Hill), and lines up with our starting point The Rhino Column (George R. Brown Education Center @ Zoo entrance.

Unknown

Unknown:
a·pex
ˈāpeks/
noun
1. The top or highest part of something, especially one forming a point.

Mr. B. If you ask me, the reason it said No lion fears is because it wants to bring attention to some quality of lion yet have no reason to fear. Lions are known as an example of an apex predator. Perhaps there is an apex but not a predator at the dig site.

Gotcha, and by the way, I really like your idea of “In the sky the water veers”. That’s cool take on that line in the verse.

I like that you’re paying attention. Remember, we’re just trying out ideas until we learn its correct. My friend and I were reflecting on the improved acceptability of certain lines when they seem connectable to a single idea. Atropos happens to fit a lot of uncanny if not inventive pieces. It is connectable to the reference page where the Melville quote is found. It’s a mythological subject of wasting away or dying, as the skinny thread of life is weaved, measured, and cut by the three sisters (each performing one of three tasks) a possible interpretation for three winged (departmentalization) and slight. The diamond shaped cutout in the face is of four equal sides, son the apex of MOT may be seen through that center of four alike. The other thing we discussed was the Raiders of the Lost Ark premise, given the film was released 15 months before the book publication. I really like that parallel. Other than that, the 982 train might also provide a good idiom, “the end of the line”.

I am in pursuit of the mysterious llamas known as Snowflake and Pierre, who may or may not have lived in the CZ in 1981-ish. Unfortunately, wilhouse notes that the zoo’s animal data base doesn’t go back that far, so our only recourses may be (1) look up contemporary newspaper articles and (2) solicit material in the local Houston paper.
1. UNC does not have the Houston Chronicle index, but many universities (mainly in Texas) do. Here is a list, by state:
IL    -NORTHWESTERN UNIV1995-2001 INU    –
MA    -BOSTON PUB LIBR BRL    –
NY    -NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR NYP    –
TX    -AUSTIN PUB LIBR TXG    –
TX    -BAYLOR UNIV IYU    –
TX    -BRAZOSPORT COL LIBR BPJ    –
TX    -DALLAS PUB LIBR IGA    –
TX    -HOUSTON PUB LIBRLocal holdings availa… TXN    –
TX    -LAREDO COMMUN COL1995-2000 TLJ    –
TX    -SAN JACINTO COL, LEE DAVIS LIBR SJY    –
TX    -SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIV, CENT LIBR ISM    –
TX    -SOUTHWESTERN UNIV TXX    –
TX    -STEPHEN F AUSTIN STATE UNIVApr. 1995-2005 TXK    –
TX    -TEXAS A&M UNIV TXA    –
TX    -TEXAS A&M UNIV LIBR, COMMERCE IEA    –
TX    -TEXAS A&M UNIV, CORPUS CHRISTI TXF    –
TX    -TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIV TXT    –
TX    -TEXAS STATE LIBR IKM    –
TX    -TEXAS STATE UNIV-SAN MARCOS1995- TXI    –
TX    -TEXAS TECH UNIV1995- ILU    –
TX    -TRINITY UNIV, COATES LIBR1995-1999 TNY    –
TX    -UNIV OF HOUSTON, CLEAR LAKE UHC    –
TX    -UNIV OF HOUSTON, VICTORIA TXV    –
TX    -UNIV OF N TEXAS1995- INT    –
TX    -UNIV OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN1995- IXA    –
TX    -UNIV OF TEXAS AT EL PASO TXU    –
TX    -UNIV OF TEXAS AT TYLER TEX    –
UT    -SALT LAKE CITY PUB LIBR UUP    –
WA    -UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU    –
It would be nice if someone within driving distance of one of these libraries could pay a visit and look up everything related to llamas or the CZ in the 1980-1982 range and possibly confirm the existence of our llamas.
2. What do you think about posting an ad in the Chronicle classifieds asking for stories / photographs of the CZ from the early 1980s (without suggesting Snowflake and Pierre)? I would definitely chip in for that.

I have actually gone to the Houston public library and gone through their archives.  A lot of the newspaper articles I have posted, such as the one on Brownie, are from that archive.
I’ve thought about placing that ad myself. I may still do it.
I’ve been trying to find the newspaper archive on the zoo, but haven’t had any luck as of yet.
wilhouse

Can you identify anything in the image that would lead you to the area by the key? If the casque is by the key there should be some visual clues that are around that point.
Both the other finds had visual clues near to the casque.
wilhouse

Just checking back in from my distant wanderings. I have been pulled in so many directions lately I have to find the time to come back here when I can. I wanted to follow up with a small discourse on a portion of this verse, in particular the Melville quote – “What we take to be our strongest tower of delight”.
It might help to see these words in the context of the story line of the book and then, knowing that Priess seemed to be very direct in his clues, take a look at what he possibly was trying to show us and to point us in the right direction. There is nothing earth shattering in what I am expounding on here but it does give a more solid lock to the Hermann Park location in Houston. As I read the book “Pierre, Or, The Ambiguities” I learned the story was about a son whose father died when he was twelve years old. In the chapter that contains our quote we are learning how Pierre idolized his father as a perfect man and enshrined him in his heart. The book continues to the destruction of this image and the evolution of Pierre’s character. That is a very vague and broad statement of the book’s content, but close enough. The tower being referred to in this quote is his father or anything any of us places on a high pedestal, holding onto it as a base stone of our life and knowledge. This quote states that this “tower” can come crumbling down with the mere drop of a leaf “or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather”. Pierre received a letter from a half sister that he never knew about and that revealed to him maybe his father was not so perfect after all. That is pretty much the context of the quote so how does that help us in our search?
If we continue in the book, three paragraphs later we read –
“And here again, not unreasonably, might invocations go up to those Three Weird Ones, that tend Life’s loom. Again we might ask them, What threads were those, oh ye Weird Ones, that ye wove in the years forgone; that now Pierre, they so unerringly conduct electric presentiments, that his woe is woe, his father no more a saint, and Isabel a sister indeed?”
These lines refer to the three Fates and at Hermann Park we have the Atropos Key that represents one of them, the “thread cutter” who determines the length of life a person shall have. And this next is a stretch… in the next paragraph:
“”but if, in after-life, Fate puts the chemic key of the cipher into his hands; then how wonderfully, he reads all the obscurest and most obliterate inscriptions he finds in his memory; yea, and rummages himself all over, for still hidden writings to read.”
So that is my literature lesson for today and take it for what it is, an amateur’s review of a Melville work that will hopefully shed some enlightenment for our consideration.
If we take the original quote to be meant to point us to the Atropos Key and apply that directly to the next line: “Falls gently In December night” you get –
Good luck and good hunting!

Unknown

Unknown:
i saw this on a website about Hermann Park,
This is going to be a tough one to crack because there have been many improvements and new constructions made to the park in the last 10 years.

Is there anyone at the park who can tell you what’s been changed?  Maybe they have copies of old maps.  Maybe you know someone who hung out there a lot back then.

Also, they just recently completed the moving of the miniature railroad tracks.  “Step across” might refer to stepping over the track, but who knows where it used to go.

Unknown

Unknown:
There’s some people who think the cask is not even in Houston. To that I say: “there is a treasure in houston. that’s all i can tell you
.”
and here is the line in question: “after 22 Years all I can say is l
.”
According to my webmail program (I used nameplanet at that time), the font is “monospace 12 pt”.
WIlhouse

I believe Preiss is using the abruptly cut sentence to illustrate Atropos.

The 982 reference is more than a landmark reference. I think it suggests Preiss expressed some panache with his ability to find anagrams. The whole puzzle as it’s been engaged and discussed in these forums has long been heavy on what is or isnt a fit in the Zoo and other features around the Park, but little gets tossed into the ring in terms of each clue being sought for reasons applied as the fair folk of Araby would be concerned. I think the 982 train engine is of interest because the word ENGINE can be rearranged to spell GENNIE or N-GENIE.
As we entertain various references, it might be fun to look for these odd little connections to the cultural element. I was just reminded of the New Orleans turqoise of the Fey of France and although nobody seems to happy with my efforts, I realised that my focus on the three Central and South American statues on Basin street always troubled me for not seeming very “France” connected, but then I noticed the name of one of the statues is Francisco. When we try look through the lense of each culture, we may discover a different set of clues for our consideration.

Hey all,
I found this at
http://www.houstonjaycees.org/OperationChooChoo.aspx
With all due respect to wilhouse, I hope that this isn’t the 982 in verse 1.
Houstonians Invited to Welcome Engine 982 to its New Home
Operation Choo Choo II Dedication Ceremony
The Houston Junior Chamber of Commerce Foundation is inviting everyone to welcome Steam Engine 982 to its new home at a dedication ceremony April 11.
The symbol of Houston’s legacy as “the city where 17 railroads meet the sea” was moved to its new location at 600 Avenida de las Americas just outside Minute Maid Park last summer. The engine and tender car were re-located from Hermann Park to Downtown in a painstaking move that saw the train lifted onto a large vehicle that carried it slowly to its new home near the former Union Station. Engine 982 was owned jointly by the Jaycees and the City of Houston before it was moved. The Jaycees have now taken over ownership of the train and want to officially welcome her to her new home.
The Jaycees’ Operation Choo Choo II Dedication Ceremony begins with Track and Ties Family Fun at 5:00 p.m. It is free to the public. Junction Jack from the Astros will welcome everyone as the St. Thomas Jazz Lab Band and the Incarnate Word Falcon Dancers perform. Marble Slab Ice Cream and St. Arnold’s Brewery Root Beer will help keep the crowd cool.
And for the first time in over 30 years, the public will be allowed into Engine 982’s gates to see firsthand the train that symbolizes Houston’s past. Before its move Downtown, Engine 982 was cleaned up, had minor repairs and was painted.
At 6:00 p.m., the Bells and Whistles Dedication Ceremony will begin. Speaking at that event will be Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, Mayor Bill White, Mayor Emeritus Louie Welch, Former KPRC-TV newsman Ray Miller, former Texas Secretary of State Geoff Connor, Janice Harrison, leader of the Jaycee’s effort to move Engine 982 and members of Boy Scout Troop 498 who applied the locomotive’s rust inhibitor. Mayor White and former Mayors Welch and Lanier will officially dedicate the train’s new home.

digger7

With all due respect to wilhouse, I hope that this isn’t the 982 in verse 1.

It is certainly the 982 in Verse 1. But that’s okay, because we know where it was situated in the early 1980s.

or a waterfall?

In order to get into the center, it would seem that each of the small, split and three winged should be separate things. I know that doesn’t have to be true but it seems like it should be.
I was thinking fence (small, split  can’t get to three winged), doors (small, split door – there was one on the party room), three winged always was the bugger.
wilhouse

Wilhouse, doesnt seem more like the center belongs to the four things alike and the three winged idea might not involve a center at all?

Much as I like the Atropos Key, I can’t see how it relates to those lines. It’s really not “three-winged”. Two max.

Physically no, symbolically yes.  Being one of a trio sharing a task.  Somewhere in these puzzles a level of interpretation has to come into play otherwise it would all be X steps north, stop at tree, go west till you bump your head, look down…etc.

interesting stuff
wilhouse

I see I have your attention.
The image doesnt offer any solid geometric motifs like I’ve attempted in the past.  I think the central object is the tilted stone just near the main object of the metaphor for the roof.  The leaves in the image emulate the spikey top of the Atropos.  Sand.  Its feeling all together and simple in my mind.  Its up to your willingnes to see the detached meanings of -ward and wing.

that’s the only thing that bothers me.
The cleveland and chicago casques images were literal.  In other words, Preiss took polaroid photos and sent them to the painter and he painted them into the image. I don’t see that here. You would think there’d be some represntation “literally” of the miller theatre or the Key. I don’t see that. That’s not to say it’s wrong, I just wish there were literal images in the image around that area.
The horizontal totems, the elf fountain, the hills, the light poles are all located in the CZ area, which are a ways from Miller.
wilhouse

The tilted stone is all I have as far as a literal image factor. The leaves look similar to the Atropos but the stone is spot on.
I think theres a nice feel to it for a CZ interpretation especially if you are decided on a linear reading of verse which makes it easy to say you go to the 982 and continue south.  But if you accept that, as you put it, its as good as anything.
Preiss uses the first word of the verse to direct our thinking: Fortress.  When it comes to understanding the idea of a gift used to infiltrate an impenetrable fortress, like the Trojan horse was used under the guise of friendship, we have a gigantic roof of the Miller Outdoor Theater impenetrable to water from the sky and we have a gift from Patricia S. WOODward to the city of Houston in front of the theater, the Atropos Key.  Looking through its diamond face with four equal sides and lining up the apex of the roof, we are able to find the exact spot on the hill ala Raiders of the Lost Ark style.
The tricks to get in the verse are the Trojan Horse and Atropos myths.  Seeing the metaphors of sand and December as symbolic for “time is almost out or near death” fits the image and verse for Atropos whose task is one of three divisions(military usage of wing) of fate, the cutting of the thread when a persons life is at its end.
I have posted some of the details to forum.  It all sorts out nicely once you see the use of lion means apex and three wings means the three sisters of Fate.
Preiss liked Indiana Jones and Greek tales.

again, it’s as good as anything!
wilhouse

wilhouse

again, it’s as good as anything!
wilhouse

Permit my humor, this casque will be found at this spot because its a “dead-reckoning”…
Well, Sir Eg dug during a wedding, I don’t see why you cant bring a bulldozer to a heavy metal concert.

Happy Thanksbgiving from the houston search team

A photo of the flagpole is included in one of the links to the photos of the zoo that I took.
I don’t think there is such a thing as a Hermann Park flag. I will check though.
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
As to the flag, I never asked what was flown, but I bet it was the Texas flag.

logical conclusion…it could also be a Hermann Park or Hermann Zoo flag as well.
Is the above mentioned flagpole the typical pole….including the truck & ball?
http://www.armstrongflag.com/OUTDOORPOLEPIC.jpg
could this represent our 3rd (orb topped) pillar?

Some discoveries have a lot of potential.  The idea of actually using a dictionary is not bad at all.
I noticed the lines ‘take your task / to the number’ seemed oddly superfluous.  I get that there’s a loose poetic structure in some cases but this isn’t a case where its clear.  The line ‘nine eight two’ is clearly numeric, we don’t need a line to tell us.  I looked up numb in the dictionary.  It has the origin meaning “take, or sieze”.  I discovered the adjectives numb-er or numb-est are available options.  I feel ths has some considerationgiven the preceding line has the word ‘take’.  Also, cold is something to cause numbing.  could the line be ‘take your task to the taker’?
I’ve long thought Atropos has to do with this puzzle.  If Clotho measures, Lachesis spins, and Atropos cuts.  Maybe the important thing to recognize about the 982 is that it is a retired train, no longer active, cut off from the train cars it once hauled.

erexere

Some discoveries have a lot of potential.  The idea of actually using a dictionary is not bad at all.
I noticed the lines ‘take your task / to the number’ seemed oddly superfluous.  I get that there’s a loose poetic structure in some cases but this isn’t a case where its clear.  The line ‘nine eight two’ is clearly numeric, we don’t need a line to tell us.  I looked up numb in the dictionary.  It has the origin meaning “take, or sieze”.  I discovered the adjectives numb-er or numb-est are available options.  I feel ths has some considerationgiven the preceding line has the word ‘take’.  Also, cold is something to cause numbing.  could the line be ‘take your task to the taker’?
I’ve long thought Atropos has to do with this puzzle.  If Clotho measures, Lachesis spins, and Atropos cuts.  Maybe the important thing to recognize about the 982 is that it is a retired train, no longer active, cut off from the train cars it once hauled.

Okay, let’s do it your way.  “Number” has the word “umber” in it.  Using the dictionary, “umber” is a pigment which contains iron oxide and manganese oxide.  Iron has the chemical symbol “Fe” and Manganese is “Mg.”  Oxygen (oxide) is symbolized by “O,” and appears twice.  So, we have FEMGOO, which easily becomes “Goof Me.”  So, NUMBER becomes “n goof me.”  This means that the clue 982 is a red herring, and should be ignored.  But, rather than ignore it, it is tricking you, so it should be read backwards.  289 is the area code for Aurora, Ontario.
“Take your task” implies “jobs” “chores” or “duties.”  A CIVIC duty is one of the most important duties or tasks.  There is a Civic Square Park in Aurora, Ontario.  This could be the solution!
Thank you, thank you very much.

That’s not my way at all.  The word numb exists as an adjective as number.  Its a literal exercise not a pick and choosing of letters.
You aren’t funny and your remarks are unproductive and embarrasing.

Piper, I, like you, thought that small of scale was the miniature train, and that you step across the tracks somewhere. I don’t anymore, but perhaps that is for personal convenience. I am and have been worried about it being in the park because the park has been so vastly renovated. If it is true, we are probably screwed, because they have dug up the tracks and put the trains on a new route.  Some of where the old route was is now lake.
The Djinn’s hat is, in  my opinion, the same hat as Brownie the Elf (who was located in the children’s zoo) – see pics I’ve posted. In addition, the two columns in the pic 8 with horizontal “stripes” are only found in the CZ.
If you are supposed to go through the woods first, then there are no tracks. The tracks are / were in the woods.
The statue you notice is the Sam Houston statue in Hermann Park. That is actually the first place I thought of as it was in the middle of 4 trees. I say was, because this year they redid that whole area and now the trees are gone.  All the grass area is now covered with a walkway.  I actually spoke to a foreman there and gave him my card and asked him to call me if he found anything. He never did, though I suppose he might not…
I know SoonerFan thinks (thought?) it is in the park somewhere.  If it is, I still haven’t stumbled on what is small, split, three winged and slight there.  The park is only about 300 acres…
wilhouse

Just my take on this…  looking at the picture associated with this verse…  small of scale step across…  Perspective should not be lost…  this should if I am correct means the Mini Train Ride.  Now looking at the picture we see the woman with her face covered.  She is in what appears to be tornado or perhaps cotton candy…  concession stand?  Maybe helpful.  Also it would appear that the star in the sky means the big star of texas but if you look at the shadows from the poles, they are going to the east, maybe meaning that you have to face that way when you look for the treasure.   Maybe between the concession stand and something like a flag pole or something.  The numbers in the trees 95 and 30 do in fact take you right to Hermann Park.  If you go to terraserver on the internet you can see that.  In the center of four alike…  I see there is a statue in the middle of what looks like four trees…  here is a link for it.  Maybe of some help.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/addres … mann+Dr%2c
+Houston%2c+TX+77004

Unknown

Unknown:
Now looking at the picture we see the woman with her face covered.  She is in what appears to be tornado or perhaps cotton candy…

I believe the “woman” you are referring to is in fact a Djinn…this is what led me off on a Rudyard Kipling trail some time ago.  This was because of a series of short stories of his with titles such as “How the Camel got its hump” & “How the Rhino got its skin”.  Interestingly enough, the Camel story’s main character (besides the camel) is a Djinn.

Do you have any idea of what type of trees were around the statue at that time.  I know from the arial photograph that I saw they looked pretty big…  but when they were first planted they of course would have been small.  Never heard the term three winged used for a tree before…  but it depends on what kind of a tree they were.  Pictures of them if you can find them would help.

Yes they are oaks…  now I am researching that for you…  did you know…  didn’t see this in an earlier post but I may have missed it.  The Brownie Statue had been stolen and recoverd several times and now resides outside the Miller Outdoor Theater.  It would seem that the park has gone thru alot of changes…  with the miniature train ride, the statue, the 982 train, and the trees near the Sam Houston Memorial.  I am looking for any clues that might spark something for you being you are the eyes down there!  🙂
Here is the link about the statue…
http://www.ci.houston.tx.us/departme/pa … story.html

I believe they are oaks. see pic 76 for the best shot I have.
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js … mbdmzaNnVg
wilhouse

Piper, every bit of help is appreciated.
I have a newspaper article that details the life of Brownie.  You are correct when you say he was stolen and recovered several times.  However, his final resting spot is not by Miller Theatre, but in the zoo, in the reflection pond. This happened around 2000, when he was moved out of the CZ.
Check the below link and look at pics 88 and 89
http://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js … mbdmzaNnzw
wilhouse

Taking the family out to the zoo on Labor day. Then we plan on going to Miller Outdoor theater at 8pm to see the Motown Review show. Packing a picnic and our camera. Not doing any searching for the caske at this time. Happy labor day to the folks in the USA.

If you are strongly inclined to think that “cold as glass” is a reference to Ayn Rand’s
Anthem
, then check out this building:
It’s the Anthem Blue Cross building in Denver, Colorado. It was completed in 1973 and probably got some press around that time. It certainly looks like a fortress. It has the word “Anthem” in big letters at the top. And if I were flipping through Ayn Rand’s book to find a quotation to use as a hint, “cold as glass” is certainly the one I would use.
Also, check out those big circular openings in the stone facade. They certainly remind me of the window in Image 11.
All of that being said, this is probably a dead end unless there are other ties to the area in the verse. Anyone know of a “friendship” or “982” in Denver?

I once found a building in Houston that interested me visually, but then I realized it was overdoing things, because as interesting as it was it didnt serve a definite or discernible purpose to the puzzle as a whole. I dont see anything particularly purposeful in looking at the Anthem building in Denver.
I’d say the Ayn Rand influence is possible but the Melville does the bulk of the work in drawing us to things Hermann and other ambiguous notions.

Poking around I found that in the Houston Garden Center in Hermann Park there is a Friendship Pavillion.  To the north and west is the Glassell school of art:
“Fortress north, cold as glass
Friendship south”
wilhouse

Hi Erexere,
I went out to MOT today and took some pictures for you.
1. From the Atropos statue to the light poll is exactly 100 feet.
2. From the statue to 78 feet (24 m)…i marked with the water bottle.
A photo from across the rr tracks back toward statue and MOT at 289 feet (982 train).
3. The spot marked where the water bottle is coned off and geo-tagged

Wasn’t the Atropos Key moved at some point? If so, why are we counting paces?

We are comparing the distance it is now vs. The distance it was then. Geo-tagging old/new

Oh, I see.

forest_blight

Wasn’t the Atropos Key moved at some point? If so, why are we counting paces?

The hill was upgraded with a new walkway, light posts along that walkway, and regraded on the forward facing slope to maximize the viewing experience. During that time the Atropos statue was taken down and restored to it’s original luster. The block it was mounted on might be the original or a new slab. No citations or evidence that I’m aware of have proved that the statue has been moved any distance from it’s original position. Given the scale of the improvements to the hill it’s only my opinion that the statue’s current location is some unknown number of inches or feet from it’s original position in height or distance with respect to the MOT. Unlikely, but possible, it could be in it’s exact original location, if the slab was left standing while improvements took place. That’s the best case scenario for my theory.
Why are we counting paces? This is a recent exploration. It just seemed so odd to me that the verse could be bringing our thinking around to something to do with Christmas/Santa/Reindeer. I’m caught up with multiple interpretations, so sorry if this doesn’t seem polished. Ruddy Alf and his reindeer-hide boots, from the introductory portion of the Fair Folk story tells me there’s a chance for a Rudolph the Red-nosed reindeer appearance in one of these puzzles. The Ruby out of Araby, scarlet of desert sky at dawn, just seems apropos of a brightly lit red nosed guide on Christmas. Maybe it’s akin to the big single light mounted at the front of the old 982…boy would that thing haul a lot of coal for kids’ stalkings. I digress. Paces? I believe the best reason to reference Christmas is that it’s the date of the 25th or it’s eve is a possible pacing clue. I’d be satisfied if that spot Dave was kind enough to pace to looked special in some way. I kind of like how the rays of the Atropos head are just touching the edges of the top point of the MOT. I’d be tempted to dig at that spot one more pace closer to the light tower. (Dave used my 24 pace reference, and I’ve decided that 25 seems more suitable).
Given that this pacing reference is super subtle, I thought it would be nice to see some evidence in the image, so here’s my attempt to find the number 25 hidden in the image, I think I’ve found it twice,
Dave, thank you for having a look and working so hard to provide some details. Maybe you’ll dig there.

Dave, did you take your picture of statue with MOT from eye level or from ground level? If I was seriously going to dig, I’d lay down on the grass and look through the camera from the lowest point because I think its important to find the line that takes the tippytop point of the theater through the four sided mouth of the statue.
How did your other scoutings go?

The train tracks that you walked across at 289 feet was not in that location in 1982.
wilhouse

I found this online, Perhaps it was put right back in the old location.
wilhouse
Title: Atropos Key
Artist: Stewart, Hannah
Date: 1972
Type: Sculpture
Medium: Bronze (sculpture), Concrete (base)
Location: Hermann Park
Prominently positioned at the top of the seating area at Miller Outdoor Theatre, a place known to generations of Houstonians simply as the Hill, Atropos Key is a cast bronze sculpture atop a concrete base faced with black slate. It was created in 1972 by Hannah Holliday Stewart and was presented to the City of Houston by Patricia S. Woodward. A dedication ceremony took place on August 24, 1972. In 2009, the Houston Arts Alliance removed the sculpture, had it professionally cleaned and restored,
and replaced it in its location on the Hill.
The title of the piece refers to one of the Fates, the daughters of Zeus in Roman mythology. Along with her sisters, Atropos was responsible for the destiny of humans.
Stewart studied art at the Cranbrook Academy of Art and taught at the University of St. Thomas. She worked with the Houston Womans Caucus for Art and had a reputation as a major force in the art world at a time when sculpture and the marketing of art were dominated by men. She died in New Mexico in 2010.

Awesome, Wilhouse. It’s almost scary to think there’s any chance the casque is recoverable. I constantly wonder which one of these will be found next, ..if.

wilhouse

The train tracks that you walked across at 289 feet was not in that location in 1982.
wilhouse

Good observation wilhouse. Looking at the old map of the park. It wasnt there. Just ran from the zoo near the lake up to pioneer square (four fountains) then to the southern area behind miller outdoor..then near zoo parking lot.

CS, I love it that you thought of something I haven’t yet.  I’m hoping someday someone says something and I finally realize what that stupid sentence really means.
My fear is that it points to a location between 4 of the cinderblock figures, which were movable, and we’ll never figure it out…
wilhouse

At this point you have to be one of the world’s foremost experts on that zoo from the 70’s to present.  I was just throwing it out because it was one of the few things I could think of that fit the criteria and there seems to be some significance with the shamrock in the area.

I thought y’all might be interested in this.  This move effectively eliminates anyone from finding the casque unless they come to this board, or do a lot of research.
wilhouse

Johann, it is much simpler than that, though to be honest, that is what we did on the south side of the patch.
The zoo director has told me that if I can give him evidence that the cask might be under the patch, then he will let me use his bulldozer and remove the concrete.
Unfortunately, the GPR data did not lend evidence that the cask is under there.
wilhouse

Euhirudinea

Easy to say, but in reality, very hard to do. Far be it from me to spoil anyone’s fun, but in the real world, probing is hard…and ultimately pointless unless you are willing and able to dig.

Agreed, definitely hard to do.

erexere

Probing may work in an ideal setting…but ideal is broken.

How difficult is it to probe in the soil at the Colonnade? I mean will a probe go in the ground with a good press down or do you have to lay your chest on it?

I always thought that night here confirmed
the lamp post as the burial site marker.
(I believe like Wilhouse that Pierre and
Snowflake were the llamas)
Watching snow fall in the night,
you always need to look at a light post
to see the flakes.

Fenix

‘What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice…’

A leaf would indeed fall in December……but why NIGHT?

The Pierre passage truly is about his father, not a leaf.  His father is his “strongest tower”.
wilhouse

Hey guys, a buddy of mine have been working on this verse for a while because we live in Houston not far from the park. Thanks for considering our thought processes. You guys have done some really good work here, but we’re not quite convinced of the CZ.
Has anyone considered that “small of scale, step across” might be referring to the bridge that the miniature train crosses? Back in 1982, it was the only bridge across the lake. I know the lake has been expanded, and the Pedestrian Island created, but the bridge moves in a straight line and then the tracks curve away.
So if you keep walking in a straight line from the bridge onto the Pedestrian Island (perspective should not be lost), then turn around, you see the geyser in the lake (there’s the spout) and you can hear the train whistle from there because the train blows it’s whistle every time it runs across a driveway or major walkway.
I think that if you walk from the Zoo, that you have to walk around the east side of the lake because it was heavily wooded in 1982. Then by continuing, around the lake, you come to the bridge just past the Pioneer Memorial.
Any thoughts?

small split three winged and slight,
maybe these things are very small, like four pipes sticking up out of the ground.  Does anyone have a meaning for SMALL SPLIT THREE WINGED AND SLIGHT?  I think “SLIGHT” is a keyword here.  But three winged and small split.  alike.  Maybe snowflakes, no snowflakes are alike but maybe if they are decorations they would be alike.  They are definitely split and small.
any thoughts?

Excellent passage, bigmattyh! You should read Bamber Gascoigne’s book “Quest for the Golden Hare.” It deals in part with this tendency to make too many complicated connections in treasure hunts. But as long as it’s all in fun and doesn’t intrude on someone’s social life, it’s mostly harmless.
By the way, did you know that half of 982 is a prime number? That can’t be a coincidence.

I’ve been considering the ‘Take your task’ line alone and I want to consider what sorts of tasks do we take?  A math test might be suitable as an answer since we take tests.
Taking a path would be the most reasonable here, but if the path is a task, then what does that mean?  If your task is running, a track.  If it’s taking out the trash, then your path is to the dumpster.  What task could be meant here at the park or zoo?  Combining this with the next line “to the nine eight two” in the simple view puts us at the train.  What is the task then?  Is it just as simple as take a path to the 982 train or is it possibly a task to multiply 982 by 2 and discover the 1964 memorial along with a pretty good match to the curved stitch pattern in the parking lot which was in place pre-1981.
I wonder what could possibly suggest the math based approach.  Is it that Djinni are typically thought of as making wishes and people wish for more wealth than they can count?  Or is it the animal theme that brings up a noah’s ark two by two idea?  Or perhaps the idea of the abacus, even though one isn’t present in the image.  I don’t see much else and nothing seems concrete.  This multiplying idea isn’t the least outrageous and is really the smallest possible step outside the rigid sanctuary that’s allowed these puzzles to remain unsolved for so long.  Keep in mind there are a number of math based elements that are often used as tools to orienteering like counting paces or measuring degrees.
IMHO, Compass work should be considered a basic staple of treasure hunting.

Could the “task” be finding the casques location?

Glossiphoniidae

Could the “task” be finding the casques location?

Of course, but that’s a given and only makes the word filler.  It is an over analysis to suspect each and every word has something to offer each of the lines, but it can’t hurt to give it a thought.

Unknown

Unknown:
I actually like the water tower idea. I’m starting to think the “strongest tower of our delight [which] falls gently in December night” might be a fanciful description of a tower of water; a fountain, the “spout”. Snow is water after all. “The name of the Lord is a strong tower” and “The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life” (Proverbs).

I remain convinced the casque is somewhere near the Garden Center. I’ve previously looked at ways to get there from the train, but I’ve just noticed something which makes me think BP was being very sneaky, and you actually start there.
Fortress north
Cold as glass
Friendship south
“Friendship south” is the Friendship Pavilion (circled right). “Fortress north” is something unidentified to the north of it (maybe at the Children’s Museum).
Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two
We’ve seen BP use “too” instead of “to”. Here he’s using “To” instead of “Two”.
Two the number nine eight two = 2 x 982 =
1964
This is the date of the Garden Center fountain, circled left above…(also happens to be the date of the planetarium).
…as seen here.
Through the wood
No lion fears
In the sky the water veers
The fountain is by Wood, who no lion fears. Through/via this fountain the water veers into the sky.
Small of scale
Step across
Perspective should not be lost
I’m not sure exactly what happens next. But I’m thinking, maintaining this view of the water sprite, step back to the star (shown as a cross in the pic, therefore “step a cross”).
In the center of four alike
Garden Center and four columns
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
Grr, still don’t know, guessing words on signs in the garden center.
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night
Looking back from treasure ground
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds.
Don’t know what the whistle is, don’t care – evidently you could hear some kind of whistle in Hermann Park. I’m guessing trains.
The spout could be the fountain.
OK, I’m open-minded, and I’m now reaching to explain why this might refer to the fencepost I talk about
here
. Forest mentioned the Moby quote
“There she blows! A hump like a snow-hill!”
, and you could argue that the sandhills have been drawn to resemble snowhills.
I was imagining a golfer in one of those bunkers swiping up a spout of sandy “snow”. OK, that’s a stretch, but it’s the best I can do for now. Stand on the star, look across at the golf bunker, and see if it aligns with the 11th fencepost. Might sound crazy, but at least you can try it without getting shot at.

bigmattyh

The roof of the theater has been the same as long as I can remember.  I might not be able to remember every detail of what the park looked like back then, but I definitely remember the theater — and it’s been more or less the same since the early 80s.

Thanks, i could swear I found a mid 80s picture that showed a different shaped roof and saying somethingmabout an update.  Im thinking it was a view from the back of the theater.  That big triangle roof is the main reason i liked my idea for the median near Fannin where it takes a position at an angle that fits a triangle with apex being the tallest of the backgound columns in the illustration.  Still something to consider then.
WR, i like your arithmetic.  The Schnitzer name is big around Oregon.  Its a wealthy Jewish family in the steel industry.  The University of Oregon has the Jordan Schnitzer Art Museum.  Then Portland has the Arlene Schitzer Concert Hall.

Since I have for a long time thought that the 4 things alike were the cinder block people, I always took small and slight to be different by what they were referring to:
small as in size (ie, childlike vs adult)
slight as in girth (wide vs thin).
There were small, large, wide and thin cinderblock people in the cz.
Someone asked about the animal water fountains. Yes there were a few in the CZ, but they were movable and the zoo director told me that they put them in various places. One was usually over by the restrooms on the east side of the CZ.
wilhouse

Im still unable to verify for certain if the Dowling monument had moved.  Its been south of the cz for certain based on the ’79 map outline from wilhouse.  Maybe three winged is a clover reference to the Irish decent of Dowling.  It competes with the idea that smale of scale refers to his historic battle.  Well, somthing to toss around, but i dont see a sure way to connect leaving the zoo given the backward crazy feel of the verse.
I was talking to my dentist about the battle of Sabine Pass and he reminded me of Samson and the donkey jaw.  Dont know if thats useful, but lots of little ideas resonate.

WhiteRabbit

Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two
We’ve seen BP use “too” instead of “to”. Here he’s using “To” instead of “Two”.
Two the number nine eight two = 2 x 982 =
1964
This is the date of the Garden Center fountain, circled left above…(also happens to be the date of the planetarium).

Ok, I understand this casque has not been found but why oh why are people all of a sudden so quick to reinterpret things that appear so concrete?
Also, while perusing the page this ^^ pic was from (found here:
http://www.trainweather.com/hermannparkrailroad.html
), it seems pretty logical that this is what our “perspective” line refers to.

Unknown

Unknown:
Its unwise to exclude the option without strong evidence against.

TO Erexere:
You constantly refute what evidence you are shown against some ideas, and you continue to cling to them (some of them downright bizarre!) without ANY evidence in their FAVOR! So I think your plea to “not argue unless we can disprove your ideas” is just as bogus.
Why can’t you just accept that this is a forum for EVERYONE’S ideas? Yours included? And that everyone has an equal shot at being refuted? You aren’t the only one getting refuted.
And plenty of people who don’t write can still quote. Doesn’t mean a damned thing.
To Wilhouse: Thanks–but I’ve changed my mind after studying the maps and images all last night. I don’t think there’s a water tower there either. It was a good shot, but I’m abandoning that idea in favor of something else. If there are two balls, okay–but I don’t think that’s what being depicted either.  I put my summary in the Image 8 thread.

fox

Ok, I understand this casque has not been found but why oh why are people all of a sudden so quick to reinterpret things that appear so concrete?

Yes, very much agreed.
I like that people are trying to come up with different interpretations of the unclear things in this verse.  That’s productive.  But honestly, WR, your explanation of 982 is a classic example of going through the most unwarranted contortions to fit a pet theory.
The 982 locomotive was RIGHT THERE, in Hermann Park.
It’s not freakin’ rocket science.  I guess some people will only feel satisfied if they think they’re solving some great intellectual feat.

shecrab

TO Erexere:
You constantly refute what evidence you are shown against some ideas, and you continue to cling to them (some of them downright bizarre!) without ANY evidence in their FAVOR! So I think your plea to “not argue unless we can disprove your ideas” is just as bogus.
Why can’t you just accept that this is a forum for EVERYONE’S ideas? Yours included? And that everyone has an equal shot at being refuted? You aren’t the only one getting refuted.
And plenty of people who don’t write can still quote. Doesn’t mean a damned thing.
To Wilhouse: Thanks–but I’ve changed my mind after studying the maps and images all last night. I don’t think there’s a water tower there either. It was a good shot, but I’m abandoning that idea in favor of something else. If there are two balls, okay–but I don’t think that’s what being depicted either.  I put my summary in the Image 8 thread.

I completely accept that everyone can share the forum.  You pick your words very well and always catch mistakes, but you just opened up on me about collective nouns after maltedfalcon and I exchanged words about what was or wasnt in the official database.  I contacted the zoo about their source and im still waiting to hear back.  You claim they are fictional…why?  Whats your problem?  Where is the decency or basic relevance in your argument? No, its bogus if you think everyone else knows that about animal group names.  I had no idea there was such a list and i found it very interesting and thought it could help to share.  I ask you again to just consider it as an option.
Think.  Preiss chose that particular line from Pierre when he could’ve found any other unless it was strictly important to identify a delightful, strong and tall structure or it could mean giraffes since they are called a tower as a group (source pending).
I have NO problem with anyone dismantling my ideas.  I do provide evidence in their favor.  Your claim that I havent is insane.  If you see my evidence as weak, then just say so, I am willing to follow a source beyond wikipedia, and I did.  As I improve my understanding I gleefully join in on casting out my own ideas.  Catharsis is a healthy experience.  Its appreciated if someone helps and im sorry if anything i say looks like a waste of time or I missed that someone already went a few rounds with the same drivelly idea in the past.  You are making a mistake if you think your opinion has the strength of a sound refutation.  Just let it be an opinion.  You see things differently, you have different knowledge.  My ideas are here for you to tear down, i just wish you had something more exciting to show than your temperament.
My whole BSG idea is just pure fun and I will hold on to it as long as I see it as an option.  Its too bad Preiss didnt use any BSG specific jargon like frak or daggit.  Theres clearly no official basis for it.  Who knows, maybe BSG had some gestalt influence on Preiss and he chose subconciously preffered places and yet fit them to a different framework.  Its just rich with wonder.

*sigh*
Do you really think I don’t know that?
I agree with Erexere about one thing. BP wasn’t nearly as simple-minded as you people seem to think.

If the Dowling monument was right in the middle just south of the 982’s first location, wouldnt that be another candidate for “small of scale” based on 36 men holding back 5000?  It was the second battle of Sabine pass.  The name Sabine has some good old fashioned Greek/Roman associations.  I suspect Preiss wouldve been drawn to that.
Okay, I’m not finding any record that the Dowling monument was in the zoo area, which leaves me to wonder what the statue/fountain shape is in the old historical aerials.

One of the many lesser definitions of “tower” is, indeed, a group of giraffes. This being a zoo, it might be relevant. But I sure wouldn’t want to see a group of giraffes falling, gently or not!

What’s the difference between “small” and “slight”?

Unknown

Unknown:
I have NO problem with anyone dismantling my ideas.

Unknown

Unknown:
I do provide evidence in their favor.  Your claim that I havent is insane.

Unknown

Unknown:
If you see my evidence as weak, then just say so,

Unknown

Unknown:
I am willing to follow a source beyond wikipedia, and I did.

Unknown

Unknown:
As I improve my understanding I gleefully join in on casting out my own ideas.  Catharsis is a healthy experience.

Unknown

Unknown:
Its appreciated if someone helps and im sorry if anything i say looks like a waste of time or I missed that someone already went a few rounds with the same drivelly idea in the past.

Unknown

Unknown:
You are making a mistake if you think your opinion has the strength of a sound refutation.  Just let it be an opinion.

Unknown

Unknown:
You see things differently, you have different knowledge.  My ideas are here for you to tear down, i just wish you had something more exciting to show than your temperament

Yes you DO! Everytime someone does, you get upset.
Insane? My claims are insane and I’m temperamental–but we should seriously consider Pac Man and Battlestar Galactica based on a slight resemblance? Okaaaaayyy….
I do! So do others! AND YOU GET UPSET.
I don’t use Wikipedia much. It’s useful for only a marginal amount of information.
I’m so glad you’re healthy.
“Drivelly?” I’d say that was pretty upset if you think all this work for all these years is just DRIVEL. You’ve been here how long? A few months now? And what you’ve managed to do is throw out all the ideas that have been suggested before and come up with totally different ones, but when people point out to you that there were sound, solid reasons for the previous ideas, you turn cranky and whiny and start in on how you’re the only one thinking outside the box and we ought to appreciate it more. And when anyone–not just me–refutes an idea, you GET UPSET.
I have NEVER said my ideas were gospel or that they are the only truth. EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS OPINION. Except for those of us who have gone to a site and actually dug, and have found nothing, or those of us who have gone to a site and dug and found a casque. Those ideas are not opinions. I am not one of those people, so ALL of my ideas are opinions, and I DO say so. Pay closer attention.
So I’m the only one here with a “temperament?” Check your mirror.

forest_blight

What’s the difference between “small” and “slight”?

I know. Not a whole lot. But maybe by slight he meant “thin” or “frail.” Small doesn’t have to be either of those. One could have small,
chunky
, or
sturdy
things.

WhiteRabbit

*sigh*
Do you really think I don’t know that?

Unknown

Unknown:
We’ve seen BP use “too” instead of “to”. Here he’s using “To” instead of “Two”.
Two the number nine eight two = 2 x 982 = 1964

Honestly, I don’t know.  It’s stuff like this…
…that supports my criticism that you favor the complicated over the simple.  No one here is arguing that BP was a simpleton, but so far there’s no evidence that this puzzle requires anything other than eyes and feet on the ground at the casque location in 1982 to solve it.

Thing is, you guys often remind me of this passage from
Foucault’s Pendulum
— which is a brilliant book about a hunt for a buried treasure (of sorts).
He threw open the shutters dramatically and pointed. At the corner of the narrow street and the broad avenue, stood a little wooden kiosk, where, presumably, lottery tickets were sold.
“Gentlemen,” he said, “I invite you to go and measure that kiosk. You will see that the length of the counter is one hundred and forty-nine centimeters — in other words, one hundred-billionth of the distance between the earth and the sun. The height at the rear, one hundred and seventy-six centimeters, divided by the width of the window, fifty-six centimeters, is 3.14. The height at the front is nineteen decimeters, equal, in other words, to the number of years of the Greek lunar cycle. The sum of the heights of the two front corners and the two rear corners is one hundred and ninety times two plus one hundred seventy-six times two, which equals seven hundred and thirty-two, the date of the victory at Poitiers. The thickness of the counter is 3.10 centimeters, and the width of the cornice of the window is 8.8 centimeters. Replacing the numbers before the decimals by the corresponding letters of the alphabet, we obtain C for ten and H for eight, or C10H8, which is the formula for naphthalene.”
“Fantastic,” I said. “You did all these measurements?”
“No,” Aglie said. “They were done on another kiosk, by a certain Jean-Pierre Adam. But I would assume that all lottery kiosks have more or less the same dimensions. With numbers you can do anything you like. Suppose I have the sacred number 9 and I want to get the number 1314, date of the execution of Jacques de Molay — a date dear to anyone who, like me, professes devotion to the Templar tradition of knighthood. What do I do? Multiply nine by one hundred and forty six, the fateful day of the destruction of Carthage. How did I arrive at this? I divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by two, by three, et cetera, until I found a satisfying date. I could also have divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by 6.28, the double of 3.14, and I would have got two hundred and nine. That is the year in which Attalus I, king of Pergamon, joined the anti-Macedonian League. You see?”
All these deep interpretations make it trivially easy to fit anything the book says into anything you want it to say.

WhiteRabbit

I agree with Erexere about one thing. BP wasn’t nearly as simple-minded as you people seem to think.

I have now been working on this puzzle book for 31 years.
In no way whatsoever do I think Byron Priess was simple-minded.
I do think many of the proposed solutions are way over-thought.

I just see that opinions and refutations as different.  Some things look right to me when they are in fact wrong.  It happens.  It’s the details about how we work around the problem not just the problem itself that I get upset about.  Deep down I do care about my ideas when they get shot down.  But I get over it when I understand why.  The problem with some opinions is that don’t say enough to help the audience understand why something deserves to be put down.
Saying collective nouns aren’t “official” is wrong compared to the Oxford English dictionary.  That’s all I want to be upset about here.  A lack of good refutation just seems more intolerable than a simple difference in opinion.
I’m pretty cool when it comes to problems.  I managed four incidents last week where vehicles suffered failure.  A starter stopped working, a tire had a flat, a battery terminal was fried, and a transmission was burnt.  In each situation the employee didn’t know what to do, but I did.  I purchased a replacement starter 6 months ago because I wanted to be prepared for exactly that scenario.  I had a spare battery and a tire on hand as well.  The transmission was a bonus, but it wasn’t lost, It was just very low on fluid and I saved it by adding fluid and getting into service right away.  None of those problems made me upset.  How the employees dealt with the problems is another story.  Not doing a routine tire check and then driving on the flat to the point where it now needs to be replaced rather than patched is just wrong.  Noticing your transmission isn’t shifting gears but driving around for three hours instead of calling right away to report the problem is just wrong.  I like my crew and I work with them on a level of respect that they just haven’t had the opportunity to learn something yet.  I’ve chosen to work with them by showing them we can understand these problems rather than get upset about them.  There’s very little reason to get upset when people are willing to be patient.
shecrab, I think you don’t understand me very well and you don’t see me as someone who deserves your patience, but I value your input and hope you can adjust the attitude some.  The atmosphere around here isn’t filled with me being upset at everyone.  I think it’s clear that I’m doing a lot to contribute and my contributions aren’t the mainstream.  Opinions are flying and patience is thin.  I’m not as upset as you characterize me to be.  Just do what you do best and I’ll do what I can in my own way.  I care little about being upset around here.

I’m struggling to figure out what “reconstruction” occured to the Miller Outdoor Theater.
I thought this roof didn’t exist back in 1981, but this picture suggests it was like this in 1979,
http://www.petermichel.com/Exhibitions&Proposals.html

The roof of the theater has been the same as long as I can remember.  I might not be able to remember every detail of what the park looked like back then, but I definitely remember the theater — and it’s been more or less the same since the early 80s.

I only started looking into this a few days ago so might have missed people already posting. Ive went though verse 1 and tried to find what the clues in the verse are leading to.d  things I found intresting.
Firstly thanks to catherwood we have 920 being the train. Next lines are Through the wood
No lion fears.
In 1937 there was a Central Lions Club that was going to build a bronze figure of George H. Hermann in the park.  (
http://www.georgekessler.org/html/kessl … depression
)
At the same site it mentions the Pioneer Memorial Shaft which is a 50-foot high granite obelisk, the Pioneer Memorial Shaft which is south of the south end of the reflecting basin. Could the obelsik be that stone thing on the right side of image 8?
We also have the lines “In the sky the water veers”,  “In the center of four alike” “There’s the spout!” Which could be all about the 4 fountains.there is a picture of one of those fountains for kids at
http://www.hermannpark.org/heartofpark.htm
I think this has jsut een built so not to do with the puzzle but the recelftion pool been there for about 60 years so they may just be addion to this fountain. My yahoo account is not working so cant check the egroup for pics so tried to find some online.
http://jodyfiles.tripod.com/wedding.htmlIs
pictures from a wedding at the park and the second photo has a fountain in background.
http://www.stockyard.com/photos/SA2021.htmSeems
to be a picture of Hermann Park Entrance with a fountain.
As for the image, someone posted
http://www.ci.houston.tx.us/departme/pa … tory3.html
and if you look at the bottom there is a picture of limestone columns which had been moved to the Mecom-Rockwell Fountain, Another picture of them is at
http://www.stockyard.com/photos/SA2071.htm
In fact if you go to
http://www.stockyard.com/setParksHermann.htm
you can click though all the differet pics of the park.
Could these columns be the ones from the image?
Furthmore the image has so much granite that I was looking for something around that. There is a Sam Houston monument with a granite base. I tihnk there is more than one but this one been the for about 75 years and is pointing. Would be nice ot know what he is pointing at.
http://www.stp.uh.edu/vol61/162/News/news2/news2.html
Also there is another map of the park. This time on a larger scale. It does mark where most of the landmarks are where the train goes so perhaps it helps us get a better picture of where everything is.
http://www.hermannpark.org/assets/image … rk_Map.pdf
Hope some of this is a help.

some responses to Geist (welcome aboard, glad to have a new set of eyes).
Nice catch on the Lions club.  Yes there is a statue of Hermann on the other side of the park. I didn’t go there, but that’s my next trip.
The train is 982, not 920.
There is a pioneer memorial, and if you can get into yahoo, there’s a pic of it in the group.  It is an obelisk, square till you get to the top, where it’s pointed.  No real similarity to the pic.
I am starting to believe the 4 alike might be fountains.  You need something that is unmovable.  There are many fountains, so I have to figure out which ones they are referring to.  How you find the middle I don’t know.  If you pick the right 4, the middle could be the SH Monument.  The fountains behind the married couple in the link you posted is the Meecom fountains.  there’s 3 of them. they are in the link you posted of the park entrance. your next link shows the fountain with the columns, but right in the middle is a very old fountain at the cancer center.  If there was 1 more fountain nearby, it could be the 4 alike.  3 winged and small. dont know about split or spare.
By the way, Sam is pointing towards San Jacinto State Park(across the city) which is the site of the famous battle between Sam Houston and Santa Anna (a little Texas history for you).
the pdf file you posted is the one I have from the park and gives a clear view of the train route.

thank you wilhouse
i keep thinking i’m out of ideas, then something else pops into my head.
the image has the mecom fountain, that got you to that park. and the zoo animals. i figured that was the golf course in the back, but maybe it is the lake.
after the aquatunnel:
step across——–beyond, opposite
in the center of four alike—–2
small,
split—forks, separate, divide
three
winged—–quick, express,immediate,—— or disabled, wounded
and slight——-outside, off, small————cut dead————–overlook
so we have : step beyond, two small forks, three immediate ??, outside, lol
i also had the idea of homonyms, like step meaning gait/gate or stair/stare
gate across or stare across (or stare beyond)
falls gently, could be “leaves”, like in “exits” , and since it’s after the melville quote, the exit w/the statue of hermann or the hermann hospital
the only thing i don’t see in forest’s  pictures are the stone walkway or stone wall and the base things at the bottom of the poles
december could be 12:00, or straight ahead

wilhouse, i have to get these ideas out or i’ll bust,
i read about snowflake that was in the zoo, but these are the only other references to snow that  i can find in the park.
in the japanese gardens:
“In the north part of the garden is another yukimi or snow viewing lantern (that’s irony – a yukimi in Houston! r.c.) and an arbor. Beneath the lantern is snow mound spirea and overshadowing it is a snowbell tree. When the snowbell tree is dropping its blossoms, it resembles a winter scene in which snow is falling on the lantern. Across the path is an arbor surrounded by iris. Many people come to this iris arbor to rest and view the scene across the garden.”
—- from the Japanese Garden Society of Houston web site
it has a small pond with fish
look how close it is to the 4 fountains:
http://flickr.com/photos/corwin_i/10248 … 248200577/
and it has a waterfall too
i guess this could be a snowflake design:
http://flickr.com/photos/outerspace/179 … set-41913/
and then the snow cones, near the playground and lake.
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~ricerail/daytrip/hermann.htm
and the atropos key, i keep it in mind because of the meaning of “what we take to be our strongest tower of delight”
atropos was the goddess of fate, and the cutter of the thread of life, or something like that
perspective should not be lost”  could be the overlook
k, i’m done

slappybuns

k, i’m done

Slappy, don’t be done. Keep it up. I love and encourage new thoughts. I only shoot them down when I have proof they are wrong. Someone might come across something that helps us figure stuff out. DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED.  You at a disadvantage.  Egbert, Fox and I, we’ve been at the hunt for years, decades.
But sorry, the Japanese garden was dedicated in 1992, and not there when Preiss was around.  Also, it’s a good 3/4 mile north of the CZ.
http://www.houstontx.gov/parks/japanesegarden.html
wilhouse

some thoughts and responses:
the 982 train is NOT visible from where I think the casque is. The train is in the park proper, the CZ is probably 1/3 mile away, through the zoo.
the line from Pierre (tower of delight) is not on any plaque in the park, and I have no evidence that it was.
there are certainly trees everywhere in the CZ, some are huge.  I have posted photos of what they looked like 20 years ago, and not sure I can tell what three winged is or was.
there’s the spout can be many things, I have taken it to mean the Brownie the Elf fountain spout, but it could be other things. as for whistle, right across the street is the nabisco cookie factory, which blows a whistle several times a day. the CZ is also in the medical center and ambulances go by all the time.
wilhouse

I show it on page 28
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=732.405
wilhouse

wilhouse directing his crew in Hermann Park:
Just kidding! But I wonder if these guys encountered any mysterious plastic cubes while laying pipes…

Trohn, one of those links of yours yielded this:
“Zoo service buildings have spilled outside the enlarged oval of 1949 and the front gates have been demolished and replaced by the intrusive Kipp Aquarium, built in 1980-1982 with a bequest from Herbert A. Kipp. The Kipp Aquarium sits astride the main axis on the south shore of the Grand Basin, which was reshaped between 1981 and 1982. The master plan proposes that the Reflecting Basin be filled and that the formal promenade between the Sam Houston Monument and the Pioneer Memorial Shaft become an irregularly bounded, picturesque ramble. Parking and service facilities are spotted about the perimeter of the park forming yet another barrier between it and the surrounding city.”
“Since 1973 additions and alternations not contemplated in the master plan have occurred. The Chinese Teahouse and Garden were constructed along Hermann Drive at the south end of Crawford Street. In 1980 the Cravens Walkway—a network of paths intertwined between berms, raised planting beds and seating areas—was constructed in the Esplanade south of Sunset Boulevard to the designs of Joel Brand and Associates. Between 1980 and 1982 the Hermann Hospital Estate sponsored the construction of a memorial to George H. Hermann at the corner of Fannin Street and Outer Belt Drive, which consisted of Lonnie Joe Edward’s standing bronze figure of Hermann set in a fountain display surrounded by a granite-paved court.”
It sounds as if some major landscaping was going on in 1981, when BP buried the casque in Hermann Park. Shovels would not appear amiss. Also, I noticed that the “Cravens Walkway” is mentioned. “Craven” means “cowardly,” which may tie into our
no lion fears
.
I was not aware there was a statue of Hermann in the park, but there is. I found pictures of it on flickr.com. It’s possible the Melville reference is referring to the Hermann statue specifically, rather than the park.

I find myself once again trying to rethink this V.  Although it seems most logical, what if we are not suppose to connect the “four alike” with the four descriptors “small, split, Three winged and slight”.  Maybe it should be more like this:
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
This sure would make finding four alike much easier…it could include four things exactly alike or something like 4 trees. … or even fountains:
#67 of the 101 things to do in Hermann Park is “Run through the four interactive fountains at the Molly Ann Smith Plaza”.
In the center of these 4 alike is an obelisk…can that be used somehow?  Just more random thoughts, thats all.
…if this is indeed the case, then our
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
may be describing one and only one thing that is found in the park.  (or)
perhaps these 4 words are used in a completely different manner like finding 4 synonyms for the words and using the 1st letter of each word to make a 4 letter word such as Kipp, Lake, Golf, etc….  who knows?
The page this was found on was in an oriental language but I believe this to be our state of Hermann…

forest_blight

Are / were there prominent rose displays in Hermann Park?

Actually, there’s a huge rose garden just north of Hermann park, I believe.  (I haven’t visited it in 10-12 years though.)

could it be:
a quote from Herman Melville, and the train is in Hermann Park

Well, I certainly feel that we’ve got the right spot.  We need to put our heads together and figure out the end of this verse.  The “falls gently” part could be referring to “a leaf” as in the quote from Melville, so perhaps Verse 1 is just referring us to a tree near the train.  Leaves fall, but not in December — that is puzzling.
Wilhouse, you should ask that guy you know if there is something there in December which “falls gently” — a holiday decoration?  Probably not — the verse probably refers to something that is more permanent or natural, like a statue or a tree (a waterfall or fountain?).  Your metal detector may not work — I think the casque and key are made of ceramic.  Is it possible for you to take pictures so we can all see the spot and the layout?  The train is going to be moved, so this may be our last chance to “preserve” the location.
Good luck!

Unknown

Unknown:
rfox, not sure if you want me to say this in the open forum, but I think your approach to the verses has missed the point.  For example, that one with “long palm’s shadow” is most certainly going to be anything BUT a palm tree.  That’s just how I would write a clue if I wanted to make a challenging treasure hunt.  It’s the same reason people mistook the verse for Chicago as pointing to Washington, D.C.: the word ‘congress’ was put in there specifically to throw people off.
So, how can we use the verses to find a location?  First of all remember, the images are what lead to the general location, while the verses are the specific instructions to follow once you get there.  If you interpret a verse to lead to a state, how will those clues also tell you where to dig?

Egbert, Excellent find!
Catherwood, You reminded me of something that I had forgotten….
I keep forgetting that although we all know that matching the images and verses is the key; we tend to, or at least I find myself, trying to ultimately come up with a logical set of rules that can be applied to matching the sets, or finding the casques… Remember there are no set rules, there is no indication that a rule that applies for matching one image to one verse, will apply to any other. It is simply our desire to find “the one key” that keeps us thinking that way…
For instance, we have all felt if we understood the chicago casque it would help us match some of the others.. Yet that information has yet to benefit us in finding another. I’m not saying its no help! But consider that the flower, gem, month correlation has yet to be explained.. Perhaps it’s random, just something to fester the idea in your head that they have common factors…

I agree with Manley.  If we are interpreting verse 1 correctly, and it leads to a spot, and even if we find which picture goes with it, it does not seem to be a necessity to do so.
nevertheless, I am bringing a metal detector and shovel with me when I go to Hermann Park this weekend. Hopefully, I won’t think the casque is in a place where I could get arrested…
ok, I found the quote: Pierre by Melville, chapter ii.
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlich/511/pierre
Judge, then, how all-desolating and withering the blast, that for Pierre, in one night, stripped his holiest shrine of all overlaid bloom, and buried the mild statue of the saint beneath the prostrated ruins of the soul’s temple itself.
ii
As the vine flourishes, and the grape empurples close up to the very walls and muzzles of cannoned Ehrenbreitstein; so do the sweetest joys of life grow in the very jaws of its perils.
But is life, indeed, a thing for all infidel levities, and we, its
misdeemed beneficiaries, so utterly fools and infatuate, that what we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event–the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather? Are we so entirely insecure, that that casket, wherein we have placed our holiest and most final
joy, and which we have secured by a lock of infinite deftness; can that casket be picked and desecrated at the merest stranger’s touch, when we think that we alone hold the only and chosen key?
note the great reference to casket and key and burying.

here’s the answer I got to the questions asked by Egbert:
“982 was moved to its current spot in 1982.  Previously it was 90 degrees and about 100 feet closer to the zoo.  I don’t know the exact spot.
There has been for the past 2 years a Christmas Lights in the Park.  They had everything decorated for the season except for the locomotive.  Also had other vendors selling stuff.  “
what we have to remember is that the book was published in 1982, so it is possible the authors saw the train the way it was, not the way it is.

I never heard that Byron lost the gems. Egbert got his from Byron. Supposedly, Mrs. Preiss couldn’t find them after his death, but then did find them.
The solutions, which were supposed to be in an envelope in the safe, were not there and have not been found.
This is second hand info from Jeremy.
wilhouse

I correspond with Sandi from time to time. She defiantly is not wanting to be bothered, and unless you dig up a Casque you should have no reason to contact her about this. It would be good for the community as a whole to not bother anyone involved with the book with questions. Palencar has made a statement that he doesn’t want to be bothered and I think it’s best to respect that.

Falcon, I like the wizard of oz too, but it was the lion that did the fearing.  “No lion fears” doesn’t ring of the wiz to me…but I’ll bite for this thread!!
Egbert pointed out in his quest that the gem in the picture was right below the wall, about where he found it.
This is a small zoo.  Also, in 22 years, it has undergone a lot of construction. Yes, I located exactly where the train was in 1982. It was essentially at the current entrance to the zoo.
The lions and tigers are in the feline complex, north of the CZ, north of the gorilla house. the bears are close by.  Either the east or west road will bypass these animals.  Both roads take you to – the Children’s zoo.
Here’s where it gets fuzzy.
In the sky the water veers – if you start out in the CZ, the first thing you come to is the aqua tunnel.  Go DOWN in the tunnel, and overhead the water flows by (it surrounds you).  Go up the stairs and  you are either by the Africa exhibit (left fork) or between the Africa and Latin America exhibits (right fork).
Small of scall, step across – If you took the left fork, you go by the dwarf goats, then over a small bridge. You are now in the center of the 4 compounds. If you took the right fork, you go by the dwarf cattle and go 1) right over the small bridge and you are next to the nursery or 2) left over the small bridge and you are between Africa and Asia.
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of 4 alike
do these two go together as one sentence, or are they separate?  If you took the left fork above, you are in the center of the 4 compounds.  If you took the right fork, and went either right or left, then you are not in the center of anything that I can see.  The nursery was not called the Center, I asked.
Small, split – lots of small things (small goats, cattle, donkeys, bridges, compounds, fences, small elf fountain straight ahead), no any split things that I can think of
Three winged and slight – there were two hawks in the North America compound, one of which had a missing wing.  Slight? I have nightmares about this line.
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight – a llama named Pierre?  The llama pen is right next to the nursery, which is where the globe lights are
Falls gently
In December night – a llama named Snowflake?
Looking back from treasure ground
There’s the spout! – there is a spout in the aqua tunnel, and the elf fountain and drinking fountains all over the CZ
A whistle sounds. ??
Ok, I am open to any more suggestions on how this leads me to the cask.
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
Also The woods no lion fears,
In the Wizard of Oz they feared the woods because of Lions and Tigers and Bears.
So the wood no lions fears would not have lions and tigers and bears.
Is this an direction along the path to turn away from the lions and tigers and bears?

How about the word “Courage”?  The lion in the Wizard of Oz did not fear anything once he had courage.  Is/Was there a section of the zoo relating to that word?
Just my 2 cents — at first I thought that there is no way that Byron Preiss would pick a “living” clue such as the llamas, since they could die or be moved.  However, the verse seems to point to “Pierre” and “Snowflake.”  It’s too much of a coincidence to be incorrect.  I think we’re in the right spot.  We just have to figure out the 2nd half of the verse.

pretty sure after they picked up the cowardly lion they continued through the forest singing “lions and tigers and bears” even though the lion was already with them.
Still it looks as though if you do turn away from the lions and tigers and bears it does take you to the center of 4 alike.
Perpspective should not be lost.
Perspective usually has to do with a horizon and a vanishing point. Converging lines and that sort of thing
at this spot are/were there lines (sidewalks, curbs, fences)
that would simulate a vanishing point to give you an arrow for your next direction.

In all the pictures I have seen, there are none taken from the center of the 4 compounds back in the 80’s, so we can’t yet see what Preiss saw then.
However, picture yourself in the center of the 4 compounds. The entrances to them are all on the far side of the compounds, so you are on the “back” side”.
Facing south, you are looking down the path to the elf fountain. Turn around and face north, you are looking at the aqua tunnel, and the waterfall and “return spout”.
Looking south, the North and Latin America compounds are on your right, the NA one south, the LA one north.  The Africa and Asia compounds are to your left, Africa north, Asia south.
There are bridges to your right and left.
You are in the center of two roads, each one veering away so you can’t see the end.  In effect, you could say that your perspective is “warped” because you are looking at all these small animals in small “continents”.
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
Could just mean that you are looking at a different perspective of the zoo (a smaller version).  As for paths, there are 4.  Discounting the way you came in, there would be three.
I don’t know where to go that would fulfill
Small, split
Three winged and slight.
I did an anagram on the words last night but came up with nothing.  Did you ever notice that “small” is close to “llamas” minus an “a”?
Egbert, I didn’t notice any “courage” related things, but I will ask John Donaho.
wilhouse

Fortress North
Cold as Glass
(or water even)
another BP fountain
Directly North of The Park, Zoo and Childrens zoo

This verse starts you at the northern most point of Hermann Park
next you go south to the entrance to the zoo or the 982 train.
Then past the lions and tigers and bears.
you arrive at the childrens zoo
Can we label this pix with all the pertinent landmarks?
i.e where were the llamas, where is the water tunnel?
notice the one section shaped like an elephant… not that its anything I just thought it was neat.

I think some of the earlier links are dead.
But I see now that there has been a lot of renovation done recently.
Willhouse, can you re post some of the pictures you took at the CZ to see if anything strikes the eye of an outside observer?
DocZ

sure
wilhouse

Wilhouse – this suggestion is kind of “out there,” but please bear with me in the interests of last-minute brainstorming. And remember I haven’t been to the CZ in person so it’s hard for me to gauge the reasonableness of this suggestion.
Is there the slightest chance the casque could be buried
in
the aquatunnel? Or possibly very, very near it?
The lines, numbered:
1 Fortress north
2 Cold as glass
3 Friendship south
4 Take your task
5 To the number
6 Nine eight two
7 Through the wood
8 No lion fears
9 In the sky the water veers
10 Small of scale
11 Step across
12 Perspective should not be lost
13 In the center of four alike
14 Small, split,
15 Three winged and slight
16 What we take to be
17 Our strongest tower of delight
18 Falls gently
19 In December night
20 Looking back from treasure ground
21 There’s the spout!
22 A whistle sounds.
On re-reading, the lines 1-8 could lead you to the CZ entrance. Lines 9-10 describe the aquatunnel itself (water veers / small of scale, hardee har we get it). Lines 13-19 may simply be a reference to the Japanese lantern in the center of the four areas of the CZ, and operate as a “proximity confirmer” to let you know that you’re near the right spot (which raises a question – did the lantern contain a light that would have been on at night?). Lines 20-22 may simply point out that you can see Brownie from the casque site.
That would leave lines 11-12 as the ones that pinpoint a spot of dirt, not line 13 as we’ve been thinking.
So, if one enters the aquatunnel, is it simply a short tube, or a hallway with a T-intersection? Is the ground concrete with no dirt spots? Are there planters in there? If one enters, one’s
perspective
would be restricted to “straight ahead,” so can one see a particular patch of ground through the opposing entrance as one walks through the aquatunnel? It’s difficult to tell from the photographs how things are oriented in there.
Another thought, for those of you concerned about the difficulty of burying a casque in the CZ, is that the aquatunnel would have been shielded from passersby, and no one would be there anyway after closing time.

ok, these are good questions. I will have to post some photos when i get home tonight, but in the interest of an explanation I will try to answer questions here.
the aquatunnel (AT) is right next to the CZ entrance.  There are two entrances, about 20 feet apart. The AT is inbetween those two entrances.  There is an entrance to the AT on each side by each CZ entrance.  The tunnel itself is about 20 feet long and is shaped like a Y.  In other words, there’s two entrances and two exits.
CZ entrance  >——–<  AT exit.  The right exit leads to the center of the CZ.  The left exit leaves u by Africa (north of Asia, north of the bridge between africa and asia.) It is all concrete.  Certainly there's planters around the AT, and around each contact area.  I have dug in many of them.  I have also dug in planters by the AT.  Interestingly, the AT has steps leading up to the waterfall by the AT pond, which is the same number of steps as the cross hatch lines at the bottom of image 8.
Ok, I have always believed that the “veering water” was the AT, if you go through it and leave by the left entrance you go straight and turn right to go over a small bridge (small of scale, step across).  You are going right by the Asia contact area (remember that Araby is part of Asia) and it leads you to the “center” where u can see Brownie.
Are there lots of places to dig?  Yes.  They are mostly planters.  Have I dug in them all?  Once at least, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there.  Is the dirt full of roots and hard as rock? Yes.
hope this answers ur questions.
wilhouse

Wilhouse,
where is this in relation to the Texas wetlands exhibit that I have read about?
(is this a new exhibit or was it there back in 1982?)

Thanks, wilhouse. Take lots of pictures for us!
Also, here are some of Eg’s old pictures to provide you with inspiration. It
can
be done.

Trohn

Wilhouse,
where is this in relation to the Texas wetlands exhibit that I have read about?
(is this a new exhibit or was it there back in 1982?)

That exhibit was in a building inbetween the party room and the nursery.
standing behind the auditorium, looking north, going in a circle from south to west to north is the auditorium, party room, wetlands exhibit, nursery, concessions stand
wilhouse

Atropos Key movement is unclear. The hill was relandscaped in some way also. I thi k its safe to assume the casque was buried on center to the A.Key and MOT, but its unclear what distance it was buried or how deep it would be found if 8t wasnt destroyed in the redo.

that is a spectacular video!
thanks tanban!
commenting on steph’s recent question about “there’s the spout!,” I’ve felt it fits the Melville brand of phrase that would be from Moby Dick, as in “thar she blows!,” like the spout if a whale, ejecting water from its blowhole. That imagery lends itself to the following line “a whistle blows.” In more concrete terms, I think it best fits finding a situation where air passes through a hole, which is why I’ve liked most the Atropos Key’s face which has a hole in the anthropomorphic face portion of the sculpture like the mouth on a face. That diamond shaped hole also serves as shape with exactly four equal sides, that is every side has exactly the same length.

Does anyone know the original location of the Atropos Key? The page says it was cleaned, restored and put in its current place. It might not have moved too much, but it moved some it seem. I love that Atropos holds the key in her hands for peoples fate-i.e. (maybe) your fate for finding the cache.
Or what if the cache is right by the old train area? Where exactly was 982 in relation to the train now? NOT the train route, but the actual location of the 982 vintage train. Perhaps there the clues lead right in that area, not necessarily around the lake.
Forgive me if the questions have been asked/answered. I am still going through the backlog of this forum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Azy5IRIdzc
the park in 1985

I’m thinking the same as you. I’ve been trying to repunctuate the verse to have it mean something else. example:
Through the wood (note NOT woods).
No lion fears (meaning, you have no fears of a lion, meaning there is no lion.)
just throwing stuff out.
wilhouse

I think you have a good idea.
for instance I was working with verse 7
and its something like
Travels north but first across
and I was traveling north across the park
but first before I got across
I ran into a large cross
I think it actually reads:
travel north but first a cross,

That’s certainly a lot of photos. I will do my best to go back through them and save local copies of the ones I think might yield insights.
After digesting everything in this thread, there is very little doubt in my mind that:
…
‘Friendship’
refers to the Friendship Garden.
…
‘Nine eight two’
refers to the train at the entrance to the CZ.
…
‘In the sky the water veers / Small of scale’
refers to the aquarium tube and the fish therein.
…
‘spout’
refers to Brownie the elf.
Some random thoughts, make of them what you will…
Something about this verse must direct the hunter to the exact location, of no more than a couple of square feet of dirt. The word
‘center’
is suggestive of just such an exact location. If the three lines starting with
‘In the center…’
refer to the cinderblock men, then finding the center of their 1982 locations would seem to be crucial. If they refer to the center of the four enclosures, then something else must refer to the exact location (unless he buried it right there in the middle). All that remains is the Melville quote through
‘…night.’ ‘Tower of delight’
could be a play on words for ‘tower of the light’ = lamppost (didn’t someone mention that?), one of which is probably pictured abstractly in P8. Assuming he was there at night (he wouldn’t dig a 3-foot trench when the place is full of kids), then the only way he could see what he was doing, apart from a full moon or a flashlight, would be a lamp. And light, after all, falls gently.
So was there a lamppost in the middle of the enclosures?
Of course, I wouldn’t dig under a lamp; I’d probably hit an electrical wire…
One more thing.
‘Through the wood no lion fears’
probably refers to something physically located between the 982 and the aquarium. What was there? How big a distance are we talking about? Could it refer somehow to the entrance to either the CZ or the aquarium?

Cool stuff!  some comments and thoughts:
The Friendship garden was built in 1984, two years after the casque was buried.  However, there is some evidence that there was  a Friendship Woods south of the park, across the street.
The very center of the 4 compounds was one of my favorite choices, but it was paved over in the 1970’s. I dug in the two dirt spots in the center area.
I agree he had to have dug at night. But there were plenty of lights in the CZ. You can still see them in the photos.  The round globe ones were primarily around buildings and in concrete. Only a few of them were around dirt, I have dug at all of these sites still available. One is covered by 1″ of asphalt.  The slick post and round ball in Pic 8 do seem like a lightpost.  Especially take a look at the last links that Mark Perry posted for me on Pic 8. You’ll be able to see where I think he was standing for the Pic 8.
The distance from the 982 and the CZ was and is about 1/4 to 1/3 mile.  This might sound funny, but there is something inbetween the two – A ZOO!!  The aqua tunnel is inside the Children’s zoo. you go through a wood gate to get in the CZ, if you think that is a linkage to the poem…There is no gate or anything to get into the aqua tunnel, it is just some steps down.
my thoughts have also been that it is near a globe type light in the cz.  Take a look at the photos.
keep going.
wilhouse

what’s a three winged tree?
ok, say you are correct. look at the photo of the CZ in 1982 that I posted online.  No trees fit that description.
wilhouse

hmmm, interesting….. a Winged Elm Tree
http://www.cornerstonetreefarm.com/vege … %20009.JPG
If it isnt trees (and forgive me if this has been beaten to death before,…it has been so long) could these 4 alike be buildings around the dig site?
after re reading the V, how could they say “four alike” then describe them as very different?
let’s just all pitch in a little (more like a lot) of money, buy Hermann Park and dig til our hearts delight until we find this dang thing…

fox

after re reading the V, how could they say “four alike” then describe them as very different?

If you read this differently, especially since they are on separate lines…what he could be saying is that within 4 of the same thing (buildings, trees, park benches, who knows?), there are 4 other objects- 1 winged, 1 slight, etc.
Shannon

On another thread, wilhouse said (almost a year ago to the day),
“Here’s something interesting I just found out from the zoo director at the hermann park children’s zoo. There used to be statues in the childrens zoo. Two of them were statues of hawks. One of the hawks had a wing broken off. He’s trying to find out when.”
As far as I know, this intriguing fact hadn’t been mentioned on this thread, so I thought I would point it out.

I forgot all about that. I need to find some pictures and find out where they were.
wilhouse

Wilhouse, I really hope you find this one – you’ve put a lot of time and effort into it.  Admittedly, I haven’t put in nearly as much time, but I have a couple of things I’d like to share however improbable they might be.  I’m not saying that I believe the casque is outside the CZ, but I’m indulging that train of thought – I figure if it’s inside the CZ then you’ve got it covered about as well as can be.  Plus, I kinda like the idea of the casque being in a more remote location.
Do you know how long the Japanese Gardens have been there?  I can put them there as far back as 1990.  I think that this ties in nicely with the overall theme of migration of peoples and their cultures, as well as with the find in the cultural gardens in Cleveland.  There is a snowbell tree here that “resembles a winter scene in which snow is falling on the lantern” when it drops its blossoms (
http://www.jgarden.org/gardens.asp?ID=376
).  The gardens also have water features such as fountains and a waterfall.  On the other hand, this area may be too busy or restricted as well.
“Through the wood No lion fears” – could this possibly refer to the golf course (wood = golf club)?  I know, it’s a long shot.  I’d feel better if it said “Through the wood No golden bear fears”.

Fenix, that was a home run.  There was a llama born around 1980 in the children’s zoo and of course it was named Snowflake.
spooky, huh?
wilhouse

funny.
on a less funny note, I got confirmation today that the funds have been raised at the zoo for demo of the CZ.  It starts in the fall.  The director and I are now in the planning stages of using the bulldozer to dig up the areas we think the casque is in. Time will be limited, so we need to mark off the area, get an area for spoils and sifting through the dirt, etc..
if it’s there, it will be found this year.
wilhouse

Big, I have not been to the zoo for a while.  I need to contact the zoo director and see where they are on their reconstruction.  That’s when I get to use the bulldozer…
wilhouse

Wow.  You aren’t kidding.  I hope it works out!!  Make sure you get someone to take pics of you doing it — that would be a great finale to this whole saga!

wil House bringing da House down

I updated my website today. I learned how to post YouTube movies so I did so.
As for my visit, I think I have ruled out my areas of interest numbers 2 through 5. There is just nothing there that points to “In the center of four alike …” that I could see. I also found the line of intersection of the peak of the Miller Theater through the Atropos Key strikes the ground still on the hill.
I also posted pictures of the new Garden Center and superimposed a map of it on Google Earth to show where the star was located in the new garden.
I posted a video of area 1. There is really nothing there either except that while I was there I sat on a bench looking across the lake towards the zoo and where the train was in 1982. I could also picture the water spout in the lake in 1981 as well. This area has a perfect view to see everything. The problem, as revealed in the movie, is that all of the trees in this area are on the wrong side of the tracks. (The tracks are in about the same location they were in 1981.) That is when I realized what Preiss might have done after he stepped across the tracks.
Back to look again and take a few more pictures next week when it finally warms up here in Houston.

Since the CZ is gone, you won’t be able to see the horizontal columns either. I’m not sure what happened to the Imp, it’s probably still in the water by the snack food area.
wilhouse

I made it out to the park today and took pictures of my 5 areas of interest. I will be posting an update to my website tomorrow with some of the pictures and with some new observations.
Erexere, I went to the Atropos Key and lined up the peak of the Miller Theater with the opening in the Key and I will post what I found tomorrow as well. Bad news on that one.

Merlot Brougham

Can’t say I agree with that.

Assuming your “that” applies to the Preiss quote, otherwise you might try adding specifics or say why you disagree. Good to see you posting though.
Atropos is an interesting character. There really is no guarantee she wont cut your life-thread whenever she feels like. Its all very uncertain… how’s that for ambiguities?

I’m going to try to obtain a map of the park and/or the zoo circa 1982. I think i read the zoo had free admission until the late 80’s so it might actually be within the zoo. If i cant find any maps from that era to help navigate with the clues, plan B is to search every square foot of the park and surrounding area for 4 of something small, split, and slight with 3 wings.

I went into the zoo itself looking. I went primarily looking for a column with a camel, since the column with the rhino is right in front. I never found one.
I spent two hours in that zoo looking for four of the same of anything.  I welcome your help soonerfan.  I also spent over 4 hours in the park itself looking for the same.  No luck. I could not even find replicas of the pillars – note that they are all different unlike Egbert’s pillars.
I wish this clue had more details, but oh well.  In the center of 4 the same is going to be hard to find.  there have been so many changes to the park in 20 years, we might never find it.  if 4 the same refers to plants or trees or something that grows, we are finished.
the picture 8 shows four pillars or posts in the background. I don’t know if that’s relevent or not.
if you get a map from the 80’s could you scan it and post it?
now here’s a question: is it in the middle of 4 things that ALL are Small, split, Three winged and slight, or are each of the 4 things one of those (ie., one is small, one split, one 3 winged, one slight)?
wilhouse

why three statues and not four?
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
now here’s a question: is it in the middle of 4 things that ALL are Small, split, Three winged and slight, or are each of the 4 things one of those (ie., one is small, one split, one 3 winged, one slight)?
wilhouse

Okay, remember the lines in the Chicago poem: “Fence and Fixture/Central too”?  I thought that meant “Fence and fixture are also central clues”, but  i later discovered that there’s a Central Ave (or Street or Blvd) near Grant Park.  It seems to be another place clue.
Anyway, maybe “Small” is a street or road which is split.
And I would look for three statues or sculpture of fairies: slight of build, and with wings on their backs.

Soonerfan, does the rr track go around the zoo in your old picture? could the verse mean to go through the zoo (wood no lion fears), then go south?? are there any fountains in that direction?
if you can’t scan it, email me and I’ll give you my address and I’ll scan it and post it and send it back.
wilhouse

I managed to get a poorly done but fairly accurate picture of the changes in the park from 1972 vs. present day.
http://www.flayle.com/Secret.html
The aerial views i had were from 1984/5 and its hard to know if the moving of the 982 train and miniature tracks happened before or after the cask was buried so the 72 design plan was the best layout i had.
-The blue outline represents the lake boundary in 1972
-The yellow line is the miniature railroad tracks (with the shaded yellow being what i believe was the station)
-The shaded red is what i believe to be the 982 train (it wasn’t labeled in the design)
-The white is roads/parking lot that were there in 1972
-The green is shown as forest/tree areas
-The pink are clearings (i don’t know if they were paved or not)
-The 4 shaded in green figures are the only thing close to something looking 4 alike from the design. Although they may not look from my rendition, they are pretty evenly spaced out in the shape of a diamond and roughly the same size (I think they were trees).
The area to the north has not drastically changed. The reflection pool has been lengthened and a there are a few minor changes to the roads but i not much else as I could tell. No traces of a friendship pavillion. Wilhouse – Where did you read about the friendship pavillion?

http://www.houstontravelguide.com/conse … nter.shtml

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/d … trips.html
“The
Houston Garden Center
adjacent to the Natural Science Museum offers a different, but no less beautiful, floral environment. Within its confines are 90 varieties of roses, a Bulb Garden, Fragrant Garden, Perennial Garden,
Friendship Pavilion
, and the International Sculpture Garden. More than a tree museum, the garden center is a journey of sight, smell, and touch.”
We’re looking at “friendship” as being a bounding element, so it is not necessarily near the treasure.  Judging from this map (link below) the Garden Center is a rather small part of Hermann Park — the Pavillion may be nothing more than a gazebo.
http://www.houstonchoralshowcase.org/Ga … terMap.jpg

I spent about four hours today at Hermann Park. I had an interesting conversation with one of the ladies in guest relations at the zoo. I wanted to find out about where the camels were in the zoo back in the 80’s since the zoo has none now. I pulled out a picture taken at the zoo circa 1982 of a camel and she immediately called out the camels name! I asked her where the camel was kept and she said the camel was in the children’s zoo. I asked her where the children’s zoo was then and she pointed it out to me on a copy of an aerial photo from 1981 I have and it is located at the very bottom of the zoo. (The round building at the bottom.) I then asked about the location of the rhinoceros pen at that same time frame and she could not remember. However, if it was in the same general location they are now it would be up the left wall of the zoo. Drawing a hypothetical line from the approximate center between the children’s zoo and the rhinoceros pen and going NE over where the stack of the locomotive would have been in the 1981 photo, the line passes extremely close to the Atropos Key statue.
However, as you know, the hill that the Atropos Key is located on top of at the Miller Outdoor Theater was renovated in 2008-2009 and raised 6 feet. I asked at the Hermann Park Conservancy building if anyone knew whether or not the statue was moved from its original location and no on there could answer that question. Just now, I came across this and the question has been answered. The Atropos Key cannot be used for an accurate measure because it was moved and even a couple of feet could cause some drastic changes to calculations. When you get to the site, click on 2008 on the right side. It will take you to December 2008 and if you scroll down to November you will see the pictures of the Atropos Key being disassembled. The movie clips found in Dec. 2008 and in Jan. of 2009 show how much dirt was hauled in. In the last clip on Feb 6 (you have to click on “continue reading”) you can see the new (and it looks like larger) base waiting for to Atropos Key to be reinstalled.
I took about 185 pictures in the park today. I followed a couple of lines (paths) that I wanted to check, like the one I mentioned above and also one starting at the same location the other line started from, but going over the fountain in Lake McGovern that you can see in the older aerial photographs. I found nothing of “four alike” on either trail.
In the Google historical photo map I have attached the map shifts from my lines on a current map so the left line does not pass directly over the fountain but the line is close enough for checking it out.
I might also mention, when you think of “in the center of four alike” don’t just think of the 4 corners of a box with something in the center but also think of 5 things in a single row where the middle object is in the “center of four alike”.
Another thought is “Through the wood no lion fears” consider the “no lion fears” is directed to you, not the lion. In other words, the woods you go through you will not have to worry about lions so that would mean the woods going AWAY from the zoo.
Just my random thoughts!
Good luck to all and keep hunting!

In case anyone’s interested, here is the actual train in question, at its current location in downtown. As you can see, it is large and would have been very noticeable at its former location in front of the Houston Zoo.
982

Am I hearing it right that “step across a small bridge” could be what the verse means by “small of scale step across” ?

Yes, Falcon, exactly. You would go through a wooden fence, go by the aqua tunnel, with it’s water veering overhead, and step across a small bridge.  After you do this you could be in one of several places (because of the configuration of the CZ):
1-Standing in between the entrances to Africa and Asia, right next to the three cinder block figures, one of which is small, one of which looks like it has 3 sets of wings, and one of which is thin (slight?)
2-Standing in the middle of the 4 contact areas, with the round tiled area and the Japanese Friendship lantern
3-Standing in between the entrances to North and Latin America, to the right of which is the round globe light
wilhouse

Perhaps “through the wood” is a reference to the song/poem “Over the river…and through the wood,”and the “no lion fears” stems from the common belief that cats don’t like or are afraid of water?

well, lions are definitely not afraid of water.
wilhouse

The zoo was very woodsy back in the 80s. No lion fears could mean as you walk by the lion cage you have no lion fears, since they’re caged in. Walk by the lion cage and you walk directly into the children’s zoo.

TexWriter

I might also mention, when you think of “in the center of four alike” don’t just think of the 4 corners of a box with something in the center but also think of 5 things in a single row where the middle object is in the “center of four alike”.
Another thought is “Through the wood no lion fears” consider the “no lion fears” is directed to you, not the lion. In other words, the woods you go through you will not have to worry about lions so that would mean the woods going AWAY from the zoo.

Tex-
These two points were what rookhunter and I debated. He, I think thought the objects were in a straight line, whereas I was thinking like 4 trees in a square pattern.
Same with the zoo. I thought move toward the zoo, he thought away. There is a lot to the interpretation of the lines. This site seems like it has changed so much in the last few decades…
Do you have a Flickr account? Can you upload them so we can take a look?

Willhouse-
I’m not sure I remember…what was your take on the “center of four alike”? Trees? The towers/posts?
-TJ

wilhouse

The zoo was very woodsy back in the 80s. No lion fears could mean as you walk by the lion cage you have no lion fears, since they’re caged in. Walk by the lion cage and you walk directly into the children’s zoo.

Interesting take on that line. I always thought “through the wood no lion fears” was a riddle. It is calling for an answer which has the word “wood” in it.
For example:
What room has no floor, no walls, no ceiling, and no floor?
A mushroom.
Also:
In which bank is it unwise to put your money?
A river bank.

I don’t believe any of the verses contained riddles to be answered per second. I don’t believe that was Preiss’s style. Remember this guy quoted obtuse Melville references.

Egbert

I always thought “through the wood no lion fears” was a riddle. It is calling for an answer which has the word “wood” in it.

One nice answer to that riddle would be
zebrawood
. It’s a beautiful, ornamental wood used in woodworking. Someone needs to hurry up and find a zebrawood doorframe that opens into a Houston park. Ideally, there will be a big sign saying “982 – DIG HERE” somewhere nearby.

I forgot to put the link in for the work on the hill and the Atropos sculpture. It is on Miller Outdoor Theater’s Facebook page and if you go down the timeline to Nov 14 2008 you will see the photos of the removal of the sculpture and in January of 2009 the finishing of the hill and putting the sculpture back on the hill on a new concrete slab.
https://www.facebook.com/miller.outdoor … e_internal

Thanks for the update. I do believe the Houston casque is destroyed or lost beyond hope because the hill was regraded. The same original elements are still in play, which is nice to see how the puzzle may have worked. Too bad.