My only argument after getting “thrashed” is the image confirmer above M&B on the symphony.

phrabbott

My only argument after getting “thrashed” is the image confirmer above M&B on the symphony.

You mean the one that matched the frieze of the building up the street?
Alternative interpretations aren’t a thrashing. I ain’t thrashing anybody. I am just optimistic that somebody will eventually catch on that subjectivity is pointless when you have billions of square feet that MIGHT contain a casque. Then the real fun can start.

I understand, and that comment was more tongue in cheek on my part than anything. Easy joke if you will.
I do believe that an image confirmer doesn’t need to be unique. It just needs to accompany another puzzle piece from the verse. That being said, I always had a problem with Mozart and Beethoven being M&B when Bach is right there too!
I’m going to look into these busts. That sounded wrong…

phrabbott

I understand, and that comment was more tongue in cheek on my part than anything. Easy joke if you will.

Unknown

Unknown:
I always had a problem with Mozart and Beethoven being M&B when Bach is right there too!

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m going to look into these busts. That sounded wrong…

I know, and it was much appreciated.
Why not aBRahaM Lincoln on the statue?
reported.

maltedfalcon

No the road curves is the part of east drive that was removed to put in a hospital since you are supposed to start with the columns you never get to liberty except as a site confirmer image

First topic, semantics. There are no ‘rules’ other than the ones Thrasher has stated – the only ones Preiss put into the book. All other are those created by searchers, which of course are subjective. Some have large amounts of evidence behind them, some not so much. Many may ultimately be correct. Some may not. Is Pittsburgh being a city outside of the rules? No. Is it likely given the
subjective
accumulated learnings about the puzzle? I for one am not convinced by the evidence I’ve seen in this thread. Is that a reason for OP not to pursue it – absolutely not. Though OP is convinced of their evidence they have a tough road to hoe on this one – convincing others. I for one was not surprised that others are not convinced by a solve that uses only verse. (Nor was I).
Second topic, particular statements about
subjective opinions
on the Preiss-intended Cleveland clues and how they fit together.
MaltedFalcon, if you would, please expand on your opinion as to the path to the planter on the back side of the Greek Wall and what references/matches you pass along that path?
For what it’s worth, my opinion is in line with phrabbott’s on this one. From where the verse starts us onward, I see it as Liberty Blvd (Liberty Row) – Beneath 2 countries, As the road curves (Parkgate Ave) – Italian wall lion, shell match, front of Italian gardens (fountain match), (skip the dig spot instructions) seek the columns (Greek Gardens entrance columns match), find Greek names on wall, go round to back of wall, return to dig spot instructions (some backwards). Just my subjective opinion.
Anyone have strong opinions that this is incorrect? And if so, what is your preference?

I just want to emphasize that while I incorrectly used the word “rules,” I only meant to point out that all we really know is how two casques were solved. The techniques of using the verse and image for these two (even within these various subjective interpretations that have arisen) were consistent. (e.g. There was hardly any metaphorical or non physical representations, no reading into word similarities with an obscure piece of literature that tied a verse to a city, etc.)
The consistency of techniques on these two verses was my main point and what I mis-worded as a “rule.” But I do think it’s paramount to at least keep this in the back of our minds.
That being said, I did take a statistics course many years ago, and I do recognize that two does not make a sample. But for now, this is all we
know
for certain.
(I’ve also wondered if the fact that these two were so straight forward and similar is precisely why they were found. But why would I derail my own thoughts!? Too late…)

phrabbott

I just want to emphasize that while I incorrectly used the word “rules,” I only meant to point out that all we really know is how two casques were solved. The techniques of using the verse and image for these two (even within these various subjective interpretations that have arisen) were consistent. (e.g. There was hardly any metaphorical or non physical representations, no reading into word similarities with an obscure piece of literature that tied a verse to a city, etc.)
The consistency of techniques on these two verses was my main point and what I mis-worded as a “rule.” But I do think it’s paramount to at least keep this in the back of our minds.
That being said, I did take a statistics course many years ago, and I do recognize that two does not make a sample. But for now, this is all we
know
for certain.
(I’ve also wondered if the fact that these two were so straight forward and similar is precisely why they were found. But why would I derail my own thoughts!? Too late…)

Go on…

I suppose all I meant by the last line is that while this was consistent for these two, there’s a chance they don’t make the “rule.” That being said, if a theory is almost entirely based on literary allegory and metaphor, I think it may be time to take a step back. But hey, fairy secrets come in two’s they say. Maybe we’ve exhausted our two…

phrabbott

I suppose all I meant by the last line is that while this was consistent for these two, there’s a chance they don’t make the “rule.” That being said, if a theory is almost entirely based on literary allegory and metaphor, I think it may be time to take a step back. But hey, fairy secrets come in two’s they say. Maybe we’ve exhausted our two…

Go on…

Kang

MaltedFalcon, if you would, please expand on your opinion as to the path to the planter on the back side of the Greek Wall and what references/matches you pass along that path?

sure lets jump over to the clevland image thread

djcoffman – you should check out The Whistle Pig.
http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=28

gManTexas

This is the crux of the situation, so many people have latched onto the simplicity of these solutions and tried (without luck) to apply the same principles to the other puzzles.

Welcome back Gman.
Unfortunately, the same can be said for the heavily researched and deeply thought out approach to the puzzles. A few crazies have made bold claims of solving all of the puzzles with super complicated theories that most of us are far too stupid to comprehend. No casques to show for it.
There is some hope that a couple of intelligent, longtime searchers have made an important breakthrough with the methodology of the puzzles, but that hasn’t been shared.
We simply don’t know for sure until we know for sure. Everything else is mostly opinion.

BINGO

There is some hope that a couple of intelligent, longtime searchers have made an important breakthrough with the methodology of the puzzles, but that hasn’t been shared.

It’s a shame, too, ’cause they don’t really seem to want the casques or jewels. If only somebody would put them in touch with Mr. Palencar…

Are you seeking confirmation or permission from JJP? Both?
Honest questions. You have at least one of us on the hook…

BINGO

Are you seeking confirmation or permission from JJP? Both?
Honest questions. You have at least one of us on the hook…

The secret confirms itself. Honestly, we just want to see the smile on his face… something reminiscent of what he showed when speaking about Byron and the legacy on EU.

GoldenMartyr

Why do you need Palencar if you have a self confirming, overarching theory? Shouldn’t the theory speak for itself? Genuinely curious.

We don’t. It does. I said we wouldn’t share it without talking to him first. You have no idea how giddy we are to share. Some of you will straight shit your pants.

Glossiphoniidae

We don’t. It does. I said we wouldn’t share it without talking to him first. You have no idea how giddy we are to share. Some of you will straight shit your pants.

Sorry, deleted due to redundancy.
Cool man, I imagine it is tough for someone to take that risk, vouching for you without agreeing that it is a revolutionary breakthrough. I’m sure Palencar will reply to you without a warm intro if it is as you mention though.

Glossiphoniidae

Go on…

Now you are baiting. He has a valid point, although I personally believe that Chicago and Cleveland are not the blueprints for the rest of the puzzles. I have been to both locations and Chicago is by far the most straightforward puzzle of them all. Many things were missed in Cleveland, although it did not prevent the guys from finding it. This is the crux of the situation, so many people have latched onto the simplicity of these solutions and tried (without luck) to apply the same principles to the other puzzles.

Unknown

Unknown:
I guess my hope still is that maybe someone else might see something in another painting and connect the dots.

If this was your hope, then I suspect that you will not be disappointed. As I said, the images are as fluid as the verses. People see what they want to see, and read what they want to read. And if that leads one to conclude that there might in fact be a casque buried in Pittsburgh, so be it. Each person is allowed to work the puzzle any way they see fit, regardless of what others might think. However, if you want to be taken seriously, you should at least make an attempt to follow the rules Preiss established for solving his puzzle. Otherwise, you are just another person with an idea and a shovel. And generally speaking, that has become a bad thing for any serious attempt to find casque #3. Hence the negativity.

Only an idiot would state that there’s a map of Charleston in an image and claim it leads them to Pitt.

Unknown

Unknown:
Only an idiot would state that there’s a map of Charleston in an image and claim it leads them to Pitt.

“Originally we were looking at Image 2 (The Lion) but I can’t deny that to me that shape in the African Mask is Charleston. It is the ONLY thing in my mind that cancels the rest out. “
“Again, I DO realize the African Mask looks like Charleston. Which is why I chose to just use the verse…”
It’s very easy to make a point if you conveniently ignore all the things that contradict it…This is true whether you are working the puzzle, or using a burner account to take yet another cheap shot.

I wasn’t expecting so much negativity here for something that’s supposed to be fun.
I understand folks have been working on this for years, but still no other casques have been found with those results, so maybe worth keeping an open mind that it could be the wrong city. Paintings may be matched with the wrong verses, etc.
I guess my hope still is that maybe someone else might see something in another painting and connect the dots. What lead me to this forum in the first place was seeing in the past a few mentions of Pittsburgh here.

Euhirudinea

It’s very easy to make a point if you conveniently ignore all the things that contradict it…This is true whether you are working the puzzle, or using a burner account to take yet another cheap shot.

As the only other person to make a cheap shot in this thread, I feel a tad insulted that you might think so little of me
Though I agree. If you are going to insult an idea, you should have the courtesy to listen to it first.

Here’s my Verse1 Pittsburgh Solution Videot:
https://youtu.be/O_Vp4MxGHZE
walkthrough doc/notes:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wyam_a_Agbdsu9O3NpXaroNsCmCORg2jopzwNjOHL-Q/edit?usp=sharing
Enjoy! And here’s hoping there are some other EYES here to help I.D. things for the paintings, especially anyone from Pittsburgh.
As I mention in the document in the painting notes, we had been working with Painting 2. As locals, it was actually the phrase “through the wood no lion fears” that immediately had us guessing the park location, and from there the verse really did do the rest almost EASILY. At times I was laughing out loud at how simple and apparent it was when you were at the actual location. My rule was that i wasn’t going to try to “force” anything from Verse one to fit or stretch. Each line had to mean something clearly and not guessing.

I like to see more image matches.
Is there a sign for 982 Schenley Drive in that area? It may just be a Google generated garbage address since 1 Schenley Drive is the Phipps Conservatory and Botanical Gardens Address.

the following image sums up this solve rather nicely.

I have no idea what George’s post means, but if he’s trying to say that there is no freakin’ way that there is a casque buried in Pittsburgh, PA, then I agree completely.

Euhirudinea

I have no idea what George’s post means, but if he’s trying to say that there is no freakin’ way that there is a casque buried in Pittsburgh, PA, then I agree completely.

That’s a snip from the presentation. Image a big too large.

Choice

That’s a snip from the presentation. Image a big too large.

Sorry. I keep forgetting how high my resolution is. Normal looking things to me are huge for everyone else.

Glossiphoniidae

Everyone keeps talking about “the rules,” but no one will state what they are. Can someone help me out here and spell it out for me already?

Both previous solves adhere to the same few categories of how the image and verse were used. Do you agree?
How clues have worked in past, verified solves:
Street names:
-“Euclid” referenced with Euclid’s symbol in the Cleveland image
-“Liberty” with L and Bell symbol in Cleveland image
-“Congress” ave named by name in Chicago verse
Letters engraved or displayed on buildings
:
-M and B set in stone. Mozart and Beethoven on the concert hall in Chicago.
-R for Roosevelt Uni Auditorium. “To Congress, R is known” was Congress at Grant Park.
-Socrates, Pindar, Appeles are carved into Greek planter
Proper nouns referred to as capital letters
-“L” in picture is Liberty St
-“L Sits” was a sitting statue of Lincoln
-Roosevelt
-“Congress” is intended as proper.
Literal interpretations
-Beneath two countries was at the bottom of a slope below Greece and Italian gardens.
-Curved road (cleveland)
-Columns (Greek, Cleveland)
-L sits (Chicago)
-fence post where treasure was found is in image.
-planter where treasure was found is in image
-M and B are set in stone.
Images as waypoint confirmations even if not directly referenced
-Water pouring lady from image is by Art Institute of Chicago. En Route to treasure, but not visible from treasure. Visible from M and B set in stone.
-Chicago Water tower was on starting road
-Bowman horse statue en route
-Italian fountain from Cleveland image is en route.
Edited to make cleaner… I’m on the subway. Oops. Also thought of some more.

phrabbott

Both previous solves adhere to the same few categories of how the image and verse were used. Do you agree?

Here is a list of things I do not agree with
-“Euclid” referenced with Euclid’s symbol in the Cleveland image
-“Liberty” with L and Bell symbol in Cleveland image
-“Congress” ave named by name in Chicago verse
-R for Roosevelt Uni Auditorium. “To Congress, R is known” was congress at Grant Park.
-Curved road (cleveland)
Images as waypoint confirmations even if not directly referenced
-Water pouring lady from image is by Art Institute of Chicago. En Route to treasure, but not visible from treasure. Visible from M and B set in stone.
-Chicago Water tower was on starting road

maltedfalcon

Thanks for this–I can understand Euclid and R, but are the others not objectively correct?
-One had to start on Liberty to use the “road curves” clue and pass the Italian fountain. Unless you were supposed to take the stairs… OK, I can see that. But you still have to start on Liberty to be beneath two countries.
-Congress is where one must enter Grant park. Not sure the aversion to this one.
-Water pouring lady is open to interpretation I suppose, but it’s a pretty darn good interpretation. (unless you’re saying you can see it from site? same implication, no?)
-Chicago water tower is on Michigan which is where M and B start. Not sure the aversion here either.

Thanks for the reply. I really like your subjective interpretations! But, back to my question, what are the rules people keep talking about that make Pittsburgh ineligible?

phrabbott

But you still have to start on Liberty to be beneath two countries.

Unknown

Unknown:
-Congress is where one must enter Grant park. Not sure the aversion to this one.

Unknown

Unknown:
-Water pouring lady is open to interpretation I suppose, but it’s a pretty darn good interpretation. (unless you’re saying you can see it from site? same implication, no?)

Unknown

Unknown:
-Chicago water tower is on Michigan which is where M and B start. Not sure the aversion here either.

Silly me… I thought “Beneath two countries” was St. Clair.
And here I thought there were at least a dozen ways to enter Grant park.
And here I was thinking it was the wings that matched the Eugene Field Memorial in Lincoln park.
And here I was thinking it was the Mozart and Beethoven stone busts at the entrance to Lincoln park.
et al

Glossiphoniidae

Thanks for the reply. I really like your subjective interpretations! But, back to my question, what are the rules people keep talking about that make Pittsburgh ineligible?

That is simply the rule that states one image and one verse resolve to one casque

phrabbott

Thanks for this–I can understand Euclid and R, but are the others not objectively correct?
-One had to start on Liberty to use the “road curves” clue and pass the Italian fountain. Unless you were supposed to take the stairs… OK, I can see that. But you still have to start on Liberty to be beneath two countries.
-Congress is where one must enter Grant park. Not sure the aversion to this one.
-Water pouring lady is open to interpretation I suppose, but it’s a pretty darn good interpretation. (unless you’re saying you can see it from site? same implication, no?)
-Chicago water tower is on Michigan which is where M and B start. Not sure the aversion here either.

No the road curves is the part of east drive that was removed to put in a hospital since you are supposed to start with the columns you never get to liberty except as a site confirmer image
turns out there might have been another path to the chicago casque…

maltedfalcon

That is simply the rule that states one image and one verse resolve to one casque

Gotcha. Not sure that I agree entirely with your interpretation (assuming it was “The key to each requires the proper combination of one treasure painting with one treasure verse. You need only decipher the clues in any pair to learn the location of a treasure casque” that you were referring to). But I still don’t understand why Pittsburgh is ineligible based on this rule.

fox

Amen

Can somebody please share these rules with me? I was only aware of the fact that we were told:
1)
to marry an image and a verse and correctly decipher the clues therein, and
2)
that the following places do not hold any treasure:
(a)
any life-threatening location, such as a dangerous highway embankment, a contaminated area or active railway track
(b)
any cemetery
(c)
any public or private flower bed
(d)
any property owned by the contributors to the book, their families or friends.
It seems to me like Pittsburgh fits the rules, and so does the solution offered. Where am I going wrong?

Glossiphoniidae

Here are the I/V pairings:
I—V
1–7
2–6
3–11
4–4
5–12
6–9
7–2
8–1
9–5
10–8
11–3
12–10
It will become apparent that they cannot be any other.

Glossiphoniidae

You cannot tie a verse to an image with any certainty, rather you must tie each to a city. They can only then be paired.

BINGO

… some gibberish 421 stated…

Not an answer to what the rules are that Preiss gave us, or how this Pittsburgh solution doesn’t fit those rules.
You also neglected to quote my sweet NYCNative meme.

Just trusting to get some new spark in an old conversation. One that may actually help reduce the number of these threads. Drastically.

From what I’ve gathered in more helpful groups, there definitely is a consensus that some paintings may not be matched with the correct verses, and some are really stretching to make them match.
I guess until more casques are found, we will never know for sure. One thing I am sure of is that it’s sad that this is supposed to be fun, but people fling around insults and name calling. Lighten up a little, life is too short for that bad karma.

Euhirudinea

If this was your hope, then I suspect that you will not be disappointed. As I said, the images are as fluid as the verses. People see what they want to see, and read what they want to read. And if that leads one to conclude that there might in fact be a casque buried in Pittsburgh, so be it. Each person is allowed to work the puzzle any way they see fit, regardless of what others might think. However, if you want to be taken seriously, you should at least make an attempt to follow the rules Preiss established for solving his puzzle. Otherwise, you are just another person with an idea and a shovel. And generally speaking, that has become a bad thing for any serious attempt to find casque #3. Hence the negativity.

Amen

djcoffman

From what I’ve gathered in more helpful groups, there definitely is a consensus that some paintings may not be matched with the correct verses, and some are really stretching to make them match.

Well sure! there are also groups where the consensus is the wold is flat and that the moon landing is fake.
however if you want to play in the real world…

This bipartisan verse pairing feud is wild!
I think it’s crazy for new comers to come in and immediately question all verse pairings. I also think it’s crazy for old timers to believe that not one verse is paired incorrectly when there’s no concrete proof and nothing yet to show for it. Many of the pairings even break the rules of how verses worked in the original two solves. One might say, “but we don’t know if those rules hold!” and that only solidifies my stance. All we know for certain is how those two verses worked, and those two verses worked consistently and much differently than how we’re trying to make many of the remaining 10 work.
I know I over simplified, but we all have to be open to new ideas at this point.
That being said, Pittsburgh’s out in my book
*edited to point out that those verses worked in a consistent fashion.

phrabbott

One might say, “but we don’t know if those rules hold!”

Everyone keeps talking about “the rules,” but no one will state what they are. Can someone help me out here and spell it out for me already?

phrabbott

I also think it’s crazy for old timers to believe that not one verse is paired incorrectly when there’s no concrete proof and nothing yet to show for it.

You are correct in stating the above, however the comment being replied to was… ” there definitely is a consensus that some paintings may not be matched with the correct verses, and some are really stretching to make them match. “
which is just out and out wrong.
people who are new see a clue and go oh that must mean city x which would be best with verse y… its obvious!
they neglect to examine the ramifications of a new city or a using a different verse.
for instance if you used verse 6 for SF instead does 7 then easily swap to charleston? no so where does 7 go
this starts out like a simple choice but in reality it acts like a nuclear chain reaction forcing bad matches down the line.

Unknown

Unknown:
rules be damned!

Which rules are you talking about?

Euhirudinea

Which rules are you talking about?

You guys can really just explain it. It feels as if you are coaching disciples to stumble upon your gospel. It’s an unusual way to teach because either you are really poor teachers and nobody is getting the hints, it’s ultra complex and we are not worthy and intelligent enough, or it is plain wrong. I suppose it could fall somewhere in between as well.
You believe there is a method/template for the puzzles or should I say, you
know
there is. Okay, on your marks, get set, go!

If I was able to edit the topic subject line, I would have changed it from “solution” to “theory” – Sorry I see how “solution” sounds like I dag nabbed figured it out, when It was just a creative guesswork. I still stand behind what I discovered — but i wont know for sure until I go and dig around myself, (rules be damned!)

BINGO

terding

This board be like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwUuSM06xQ

atdreamer2112

“
It’s this one…
https://youtu.be/M_AZBQEvhYc

One more…
https://youtu.be/iqu132vTl5Y?t=59

For the win? It’s long but worth it….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuLaQoQP9oo

421 gained 1 cool point for the femmes, but lost 1 cool point for ace of base.
421 is currently at neutral cool points.

Glossiphoniidae

This board be like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwUuSM06xQ

burnstyle

Keep going and I’ll start a spotify playlist.

“
It’s this one…
https://youtu.be/M_AZBQEvhYc