Hey Fox. Thanks for the kind words!
I think in today’s age you would be 100% right. The park is always filled with people. But, I think 1980’s New York City was a much different place. A lot less police activity. More relaxed security. I think that made it a bit less enjoyable for people to be hanging around in a park. The amount of people there would be minimal compared to today’s tourist attractions. It really wasn’t until the 1990’s when New York started to clean up the rampant crime by adding more police to the streets. There was probably a very different mindset about what was and wasn’t acceptable to do in public. I’m speculating, but I’m thinking it would have been fairly easy to bury the casque in this park in the 80’s. Especially at night or if he truly was going around wearing construction worker clothes.
I see your point though and I think it makes trying to find the casque in this park today a fairly difficult task. I’ve been in contact with the NYC Parks photo archivists to see if I can gather up any other physical materials that may help with this research into the park. They currently trying to gather up all of the non-digitized photos they have so that I can get some low-res images to start with. I’m just hoping that this helps in someway.

Welcome to the hunt officially. I really like some of your ideas. However; because Bowling Green Park is so small and always surrounded/occupied by lots of people, I find it hard to believe this to be a casque’s final resting place.

well, whatever picture 39 referred to is not there any more. sorry.
wilhouse

whew, thanks Wilhouse.  for a moment there I thought I was on the wrong page of pix.

johann

. . .
Also, off West Vancouver is Bowen Island, hence “the isle of B.”

slight problem with that however…  looking at this very crude map of Vancouver & Bowen Island
http://www.bowencommunitychurch.org/bowenisland1.jpg
if you were due South of the Isle of B
“Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.”
well, than you would be in a world of trouble without a paddle…

Well, Thursday has come and is almost gone with nary a word from boogie.  I am thinking there was no find since there is no post.  I know that if I found the casque, I would probably at least hit the boards with a big “We Found It…more to come later” thread.  Oh well….

A Grey Point photo (OF the Point or FROM the Point???) on the bottom left:
pamir.chez.tiscali.fr/Voiliers/Classe_A/Pamir/Harbors/Vancouwe.htm
It is a peninsula from the city towards Vancouver Island:
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/crieff/pgbg1.html

BTW C. Dickens’ pen name was Boz.

boogieman

The “rock” wasn’t part of my thought process, but I’ll sure look at it.  Where is it?

Its there…. one of the war monuments.
It makes me believe why he selected the term “arm”
Also, in looking at the verse and its formation in relation to
St Augustine, I see in the middle the words using the first letters
going down “C A N S T O T O”
Don’t know if it means squat.  But its there.

Here’s my interpretation:
In the shadow of the grey giant
In the shadow of the WTC, you’ll find yourself
at Lady liberty.
Find the arm that extends over
the
slender path
This is the key to the Verse.  The Verrazano extends over the
Narrows Inlet
.
In summer, you’ll often hear a whirring sound
Fishing reels.  You’ll find them right now and all summer fishing.
Cars abound
They are literally running all around you.  Even above you on the bridge.
And there is a rail yard close to Ft Hamilton FB. Check the satellite.
Although the sign nearby speaks of Indies Native
This line puts you on the Brooklyn side of the bridge where Ft Hamilton is.
I will find the sign and photo it.  I don’t think the sign will be in Staten Island but I will make sure.
The natives still speak of him Of
hard word
in 3 vols
.
Me and FB found Hamilton’s Works, written in three volumes.
The words HARD WORD are italicized throughout the papers.  Coincidence?
Today, there are still many banks in the Indies named after Hamilton.
Up until the late 80’s, there were many banks in Brooklyn too.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
or More, from the middle of one branch of the v
This will have to be figured at the site.
Look down and see simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil
or gaze north, towards the Isle of B.
Rhapsodic man-  John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin.
simple roots in John Paul Jones Park (aka-Cannonball Park)

And don’t forget to add that BP lived in Brooklyn
so anything escoteric for this site should be given
poetic license.
The thing that bothers me about the verse is
“or more”
why is that there and how does it pin point
a specifc spot.
When you do there, tell us how many steps from the
bridge support to the “rock” there are?
The “rock” mentions the arms of fort hamilton fighting off
the british.

The “rock” wasn’t part of my thought process, but I’ll sure look at it.  Where is it?

Hmmm, are there any nice parks or gardens (possibly containing a band shell
) near GP?  You can’t get much more “giant” than a mountain.

Here is the plaque at JPJ Park.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/common_image … s/390.jpeg

About the name change:
Bound by Shore Road, Fourth Avenue, 101st Street, and Fort Hamilton Parkway, the City of Brooklyn acquired the property comprising this park between 1895 and 1897 as part of the proceedings for the construction of Shore Road, and transferred it directly to Parks. The United States Military presented the Civil War Memorial in 1900. The massive, black, 20” bore, Parrott cannon, founded in 1864, originally stood in Fort Pitt, Pennsylvania. Today it and the surrounding cannon balls dominate the landscape.
The Revolutionary War Memorial consists of a
bronze tablet on a granite boulder that Parks received, in 1916
, from the Long Island Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution. In 1931, Parks received The Dover Patrol Naval War Memorial.
The granite shaft by Sir Ashton Webb was a gift from England after World War I. These tributes to United States military history ushered in the 1969 name change to John Paul Jones Park.
In 1980, John Paul Jones Park acquired its most recent monument the 70 foot tall flag pole that once belonged to a Navy destroyer
. At the base lies a plaque, which reads “in honor of John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy.”

Boy, are we getting an edumacation on American History here or what?  Thanks BP!  Very cool.
So much for the Russian theme.  I’d like to believe all the
theme
theories, and if they are correct, we can throw all this JPJ Park stuff in the garbage. The Brits are all over this verse.
I find it funny that the flagpole was put there in 1980.  Look down and see rhapsodic man in the ground.  And again, I’d like to also believe that the cannon has something to do with this, but I cannot reason it into this.  I know you like the cannon Trohn, how can you make it work?

An interesting note about Fort Hamilton,
it is where Stone Wall Jackson was deployed.
(think verse seven – linkage)
As with St Augustine, poking around the Park
is goiing to help this solve.  I still want to get a hadle on
the blue domes and the colored rocks.

Liberty Island is south of Manhatten
and the statue of liberty is pretty much green
Ferry’s run all year round.
perhaps the whirring sound is Cicadas
I sure liked your george gershwin pull though…
Matt

I am currently exploring matching Verse 10 with SF. Seems there are actually interesting connections with Chinatown and most of the clues. This theory began for me when I considered the bus schedules and Cable Car routes in connection to what you’d see if you were a traveler set out to see some things China related to SF. The visual indicators in Image 1 can be seen from many of the stops along the way, as well as references to Sun Yat Sen and Coit Tower. I haven’t put all of the missing parts together yet, but feel free to criticise what I’ve shared so far. I usually learn something and have a great laugh to keep me interested in this search.
And of course, Have an excellent day! Adam

erexere

I was reading an interesting book last night that had a good story titled “Point Grey”. It contained a story about a giant rock with a name that starts with H-. It says
The Sagalie Tyee transformed the God of the West Wind into the large rock named H-. It describes the transformation of the Wind as first having a mighty roar for a war-cry, then subdued to a trembling and sobbing gentle breeze, and lastly a whispering note before being turned to stone. It could work as the him of Hard word in 3 Vol.

that would reinforce the location as gray peak.

you can get to the reason he uses the “grey” spelling (other than the book that was just referenced) via the sf puzzle.

maltedfalcon

several possibilites not limited to…
it is referencing a particular word that is on a sign or something and that word is capitalized
It is denoting it is an extremely Hard word more than just a hard word
It is noting it is a synonym or a play on words
It is denoting a name

Agreed, if you don’t mind me adding some extras to it…
also the sign should be in Indie’s native language
also a homonym word, Hard to see, Hard to read, or Hard to pronounce…etc.
also a pronoun that act as an adjective
also this man’s name only

slappybuns

just in case we need to know the words

Do they seem hard to you?

Perhaps not the clue we are looking for as its in Maspalomas and has a date of 2002 but it does mention “indies” and “of the v” but posting to see if anyone else makes anything of it.
Does the v here mean voyage?
http://www.verbalissimo.com/main/offers … _rocks.htm

jayheedan1

Perhaps not the clue we are looking for as its in Maspalomas and has a date of 2002 but it does mention “indies” and “of the v” but posting to see if anyone else makes anything of it.
Does the v here mean voyage?
http://www.verbalissimo.com/main/offers … _rocks.htm

“In commemoration of the V centenary of Columbus stopover in Maspalomas.”
It means 5.
The 500th anniversary of his stopover in the Canary Islands. I’d agree that this isn’t a clue….

“From the middle of of branch Of the v”
the v is not capitalized because it’s not a noun, it’s not of any word either, because there’s no “.” after it,
so it’s not a 5, it’s not an abbreviation,
it’s just an adjective
also there should be more than one v, that looks something like vvvvvv, that’s what it is

Spiritr

“From the middle of of branch Of the v”
the v is not capitalized because it’s not a noun, it’s not of any word either, because there’s no “.” after it,
so it’s not a 5, it’s not an abbreviation,
it’s just an adjective
also there should be more than one v, that looks something like vvvvvv, that’s what it is

Well…with regards to what Jay posted and with regards to what he was asking, it’s a 5.
(And, what he was asking about doesn’t relate to the puzzle, any image or any verse….there’s no way to link it to puzzle, image or verse.)
——————————-
“In commemoration of the V centenary of Columbus stopover in Maspalomas.”
V centenary…500….time period from 1502 to 2002, as shown on the inscription that’s nowhere near the Americas about a European who never found the North American mainland. It’s a 5.

Correct
V
=
5 but v
≠
5

Spiritr

Correct
V
=
5 but v
≠
5

Here are the steps for this puzzle, which you clearly are not following;
http://www.verbalissimo.com/main/offers/inscriptions/europe/spain/gb_maspalomas_rocks.htm
1) Click on that link from Jay
2) Scroll to the bottom
3) Read the English translation as written on that page (and, on the plaque/monument)
4) Notice that it contains “V centenary”, not “v centenary”
5 ) Send me V hundred USD
6) Admit that it’s upper case in that English translation, is a 5 and when coupled with ‘centenary’ denotes the 500th anniversary of….
7) Admit that chocolate pudding is awesome.

isnt it Alt – PrtScrn?

Just PrntScrn works for me. Alt+PrntScrn copies the particular window you’re in. They both work.

Fenix

Well, that is not the full translation for the section, is it?

Only in summer? Doesn’t seem likely

Fenix

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10498865
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound

The Japanese hint indicates the whirring sound comes from a human-powered device.

Hello all. I found another possible meaning for Rhapsodic man.
http://epiphanystudio.com/what_is_rhapsodic_theater_
Pope John Paul II started this. Perhaps the middle of one branch of the v refers to the Vatican. There are 3 branches in all. Lafitte

Since the Statue of Liberty is indeed green, we may want
to look around for another “Grey Giant”
Another possible candidate for that reference
may be “The Flatiron Building” on 175 Fifth Ave.
Its shadow is cast on Madison Square Park, where several
statues of notable people can be seen.
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GRP/GRP024.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatiron_Building
“New York City’s Flatiron building – is a
grey giant
of a building reaching to the sky;
and forming a triangle on the ground where traffic flows around it.”
Just looking around…
AP

Could  She  be a Green Tower of Lights ?

i was thinking the “B” might be for bedloe island (liberty island)
you live there too Kato? i imagine you’ve scoured battery park?
but then, and this is my problem, i get distracted too easily.
i’ve always liked the idea of noah webster for “him of hard word”, and he was known as the “dictionary” guy, so what if it just means a library, you have another reference to a library in the verse, “one branch”..and i’m pretty sure the branch at bryant park was shaped like a book, so that would make a “v”, but then i wouldn’t know what the “isle of b” would b…
there are other branches of the library.
another idea i had was, “in the shadow of the grey giant”, there wouldn’t be much shadow at 11:00 (the time in the image), i think if you extended the shadow from the statue, it would be on manhattan
also, bryant park is close to the new york times building, which is called the “gray lady”, and bryant was a poet
the jefferson market public library is close to washington square park, and it has a clock on the tower
http://freelargephotos.com/000410_s.jpg
hmmm seems all the public libraries are close to a park, ugh

boogieman

Geez cormac, why would you want to move verse10 to Boston?

“Arthur Fiedler (December 17, 1894 – July 10, 1979) was the long-time conductor of the Boston Pops Orchestra
His recordings began in July 1935 at Boston’s Symphony Hall with RCA, ……., and the first complete recording of Rhapsody in Blue by George Gershwin”…
… maybe our reference to a “rapsodic man”
Boston honored him with a stylized sculpture, an oversized bust of Fiedler, near the Charles River Esplanade, and named a footbridge over Storrow Drive after him. This area is home of the free concert series that continues through the present day.
“From its earliest beginnings, the North End has been cut off from Boston proper…… In Colonial days, it was known as the “Island of North Boston” “
North    Isle of B  =  Isle of North B  ?
Christopher Columbus Park is also south(ish) of Boston’s North End
Columbus could easily relate to “Indies native”

J B Thatcher wrote about Christopher Columbus’ harsh treatment of the natives… it was a 3 volume set.

Looking for the “Isle of B”…
Is “The Bronx” considered an island?
New York City includes many islands.
Some of the lesser known islands’ names begin with the letter “B”
Barren Island
Belmont (U Thant) Island
North and  South Brother Islands
A native New Yorker would be familiar with these.
AP

The Bronx is not considered an island, but a part of the Bronx, City Island, is in fact an Island located just beyond Pelham Bay Park.  City Island is surrounded by the waters of Long Island Sound and East Chester Bay.  The place is more like New England than New York, and once there it is easy to forget that you are in New York City.  Many pirate and buried treasure legends abound there, and BP would certainly have known of it’s existence since he lived and worked in New York.  City Island is a major tourist attraction, with fine restaurants and other commendable reasons to visit.  It is also in the shadow of a Grey Giant:  The Throgs Neck Bridge, carrying Interstate 295 from the Bronx to Queens.  True, it is not an isle that begins with “B”, at least not currently.  Some research is in order, because I seem to recall that it was not always called City Island.

Cormac

J B Thatcher wrote about Christopher Columbus’ harsh treatment of the natives… it was a 3 volume set.

Then what are we supposed to do with a verse that has an obvious connection to Paul Revere, the Greeks, etc.? Where would this one go?

Well remember,
the verse with the obvious connection to the lincoln memorial, and Congress.
turned out to be about Chicago,
Not Washington DC….

maltedfalcon

Well remember,
the verse with the obvious connection to the lincoln memorial, and Congress.
turned out to be about Chicago,
Not Washington DC….

This is annoyingly very possible.
I’m going to start looking in NYC for “a green tower of lights” then.

This one’s for you slappy.  Notice the connection between Gershwin and Bryant Park.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolian_Hall_(New_York
)
If you go to flickr.com.search and search Bryant Park NYC, you will see pictures that will remind you of every image of the Secret.
That link doesn’t work.  Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_in_Blue
and click on Aeolian Hall midway down in the 1st paragraph.

The New York City neighborhood of Hamilton Heights is directly south of the George Washington bridge and is in the shadow of this “Great Grey Bridge.”  The community derives its name from Alexander Hamilton, who lived the last two years of his life in the area: Specifically, he lived in what is now known as Hamilton Grange National Monument.  The Grange has been physically moved recently from Convent Avenue to Saint Nicholas Park
www.nps.gov/hagr/
In addition, Riverside Park and Riverbank State Park both run along the Hudson River the length of Hamilton Heights.  These parks have “slender paths”  running through them for jogging and walking along the river bank.
Hamilton Heights is in the shadow of a “Grey Giant,” and there are historic signs or markers in the neighborhood which specifically refer to Alexander Hamilton.  In September 1776 Hamilton participated in the battle of Harlem Heights.  This battle occurred in an area just outside the current border of the Hamilton Heights neighborhood ( to the south.)
Here is one additional thought I had about the “Isle of B”:  Some New York City subway kisoks are located in the middle of wider streets, like Broadway. The kisoks are often situated on their own isles of concrete which are in fact islands in the middle of busy streets.  The New York City subway B line runs under Hamilton Heights.  Some of the B line kisoks are located on the aforementioned islands in the Hamilton Heights district.  Thus, you could very easily look north at one of these Kiosks and call it the “Isle of B” for the B train that runs under it.  Maybe I have too much time on my hands……..

MF,
The definition of the era would be translated to Harsh Words today, if it was a reference to the Federalist Papers or something from that era. The real key is to figure out if “Hard Words” is a description of “him” or if it’s a metaphor for Melville.

My opinion is that the Melville was summoned only for Verse 1.
This application of Natives still remembering him of Hard word draws me closer to the idea that Natives are most likely “Native Indians”, or possibly what anyone from the US might refer to any Canadian when in Canada. So its not necessarily an Indian Native at all.

Kind of quiet here, so maybe this will liven it up for NYC. Instead of tidbits, I concocted a complete solve to a dig spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opvYYtI1pOw

gqchu

Kind of quiet here, so maybe this will liven it up for NYC. Instead of tidbits, I concocted a complete solve to a dig spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opvYYtI1pOw

Very cool video nicely done
question on slide 6 you state there is no “Isle of B” north of John Paul Jones Park.
yet People for ages have said a possible “Isle of B” is Bedloe’s Island (Liberty Island) which is directly north of JPJ park
how do you reconcile that?
Not that it is or isn’t the ” Isle of B”
but that you totally dismiss it as a possibility?

maltedfalcon

yet People for ages have said a possible “Isle of B” is Bedloe’s Island (Liberty Island) which is directly north of JPJ park

HI MaltedFalcom,
First, thank you for accepting a plausibility.
While it is a possibility, my perspective is that BI/LI wasn’t directly true north (Although Bi/LI might have been within gaze)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/John+Paul+Jones+Park/@40.6472843,-74.0011104,12.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c24f86f175e335:0xe32645a8cf768c10!8m2!3d40.6108083!4d-74.0340919
The next time I’m in Bay Ridge, I’ll go to Cannonball Park and will try to take a north view. If I recollect, the old apartment buildings (new Condos have gone up in the last 20 years) near Marine Ave obstructed the north view.
-GQ

All theories are possible. I have issues with theories claimed as fact
the island is 5.3 miles away from the park and only off of a true north south line by 1800 feet.
Also noting the line says gaze north Toward, not gaze north at… it doesn’t really say you have to be able to see the “Isle of B”
Personnaly I don’t think the “Isle of B” is Bedloe’s I was just wondering why you dismissed so solidly, not even saying it was a possibility.

Here’s a fun theory, Isle of B. refers to the popular show “I love Lucy”. Ball was born and buried in Jamestown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucille_Ball

Choice

Here’s a fun theory, Isle of B. refers to the popular show “I love Lucy”. Ball was born and buried in Jamestown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucille_Ball

Lucy’s TV address was 623 East 68th Street, New York, NY , which would be in the east river, halfway up Roosevelt Island.
I think this is totally as plausible as Bedloe’s

i believe it is niagara falls in the picture. there is a bridge connecting niagara falls and buffalo new york called, the “whirlpool bridge”..
look at this:http://wiki.worldflicks.org/niagara_falls.html

Nice video on the dig. Just curious if you have been down to Shore Rd park lately. I stood on what i thought was the v. looking right at the clock on the HS, which coincidentally read 11 o’clock on the nose. Hair stood up on the back of my neck. Cars abound whereas cars were parked bumper to bumper all the way around the block in front of the HS. Took those steps down to the park. Belt parkway. belt on the lady in image 12. Big B in the water wave. Brooklyn. In the summer you could hear 100 fishing rods whirring about. Geez, it’s been a while. I can’t remember the young lady’s name from Wisconsin who turned me on to Shore rd park. somewhere around page 40 or so on this thread.

We could play this game for hours. How about Neil
Diamond
(born in Brooklyn)?

FB,
Nice hearing from you…
I looked into Neil…but could not find 3 volumes related to him.
He does have 2 volumes of his greatest hits….
AP

brain hurt, so many circles.
i like that essay from emerson, best i’ve heard for “him of hard word”  (besides john paul jones
)
and emerson wrote “nature”, and i think his essays were 3 volumes,  (just a quick search)
and you have the greenbelt “nature”  center on staten island, emerson hill and longfellow avenue, and all those parks and…… a golf course! (my pet theory, that he went golfing while hiding the casques
)
i like this area, but have to find “indies native”, hamilton fits that so well…….but…if you put “Hard word”…….together and say it, it could be “harvard”  ,  hehe, which could be pointing to emerson….
either side of the bridge i like, not much time for research til after the new year (Happy New Year everyone!)

There is another possibility for “him of hard word”.
Ralph Waldo Emerson.
In his essay “On Self-Reliance” (from Essays, First Series) he states:
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall.
Speak what you think now in hard words,
and to-morrow
speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again
, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — ‘Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.’ — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.
Now this presents another problem. If Emerson is the “man of Hard Word”, this verse ought, by rights, to belong not to New York, but to Boston, since Emerson was a well-known denizen of Harvard. So can you find another connection for Emerson in New York? And can you figure out which of the rest of his essays the third volume is? It could be what is widely considered to be the third most important group of his writings, “Nature”. With Essays, First series, Essays, Second Series and Nature, scholars everywhere consider Emerson’s philosophy fairly well summed-up.
There is one connection I know of: Emerson Hill, a neighborhood in the New York City borough of Staten Island, is named for his eldest brother, Judge William Emerson, who resided there from 1837 to 1864. (from Wikipedia).

Shecrab,
Do “natives” speak of Emerson in 3 volumes?
AP

Well, sort of, yes:
In Ira K. Morris’s book “Memorial History of Staten Island Vol. 2” there is this passage:
Judge William Emerson.—Judge Emerson was a brother to Ralph Waldo Emerson, the most celebrated of American philosophers. and was born in Boston about the commencement of the Nineteenth century, and graduated from Harvard College when quite a young man. From about 1837 to 1856 he resided on Staten Island, in a low, brown house, located on the Richmond road on the sloping lawn now belonging to the Unger place. The spot may be more properly described as being nearly in front of the late Edward A. Moore residence. William Emerson was County Judge of Richmond ill 1841-3.
The Emerson residence was known as ” The Snuggery,” and was burned down several years ago. The end of the house faced the road, while a long grape-arbor stretched to the gate, and the old fashioned box-bushes bordered the garden paths.
Kalph Waldo Emerson spent a great deal of his time at ” The Snuggery,” and there is no doubt that he wrote many of his poems and prepared his lectures on “Representative Men,” which he delivered in England just after his stay, on Staten Island. He was of clerical lineage, being the eighth in succession of a consecutive line of Puritan ministers.
Old residents of the Island remember the Emersons as very genial and friendly. They mingled with the people in a manner that made their final departure a sincere regret to all. There is nothing left of ” The Snuggery•’ to tel! the present generation that it once existed, and few indeed who pass the spot daily know that it was once the home of such distinguished Americans.

And another thing: Staten Island is connected to Brooklyn by the V:  The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. I think this was mentioned as what was being considered the “V” in the verse, wasn’t it? The “Isle of B” could very well mean “Brooklyn”. The reason I say this is because if you simply SAY the words, it sounds like the “AISLE OF B”–the passageway to B. The Bridge–(the V) to B (Brooklyn).
So maybe there is a connection after all.

Shecrab,
Interesting…but I still like the word-play use of
Hard
meaning
Rock
.
The verse says “word”…Hard
word
(not
words
)…with the capitalization of
H
ard to point to a name.
The three volumes I referred to were about Norman Rockwell
exclusively
and published in the
contemporary time frame of BP’s writing of this book.
I have been looking at the West side of the Narrows bridge where we also see “Hamilton Park” at the North end
of Staten Island…If you stand there, you can look North at
B
ayonne, NJ which may be considered
the “isle of B”.
Since we are looking  down on the “rhapsodic man’s soil, we surely are standing New York soil…maybe Staten Island.
Happy New Year to all…
AP

forest_blight

Boogie, we may be onto something here. From Hamilton’s “Works” (in, as you said, three volumes), both dating to 1797:
“But I confess, I have not been well satisfied with the answer reported in the House. It contains too many hard expressions; and
hard words
are very rarely useful in public proceedings. Mr. Jay and other friends here have been struck in the same manner with myself. We shall not regret to see the answer softened down.
Real firmness
is good for every thing.
Strut
is good for nothing.”
The italics are in the original. Here’s the other passage:
“I received your letter of the ———. Though I do not like in some respects the answer of the House to the speech, yet I frankly own that I had no objection to see it softened down. For I think there is no use in
hard words
—and in public proceedings would almost always unite the
suaviter in modo
with the
fortiter in re
.”
Again, italics in the original. Why would Hamilton italicize
hard words
? Does he mean it as a euphemism for stern language?

This from our own FB on page 9 of this thread.

animal painter

Shecrab,
Interesting…but I still like the word-play use of
Hard
meaning
Rock
.

Unknown

Unknown:
The verse says “word”…Hard
word
(not
words
)…with the capitalization of
H
ard to point to a name.
The three volumes I referred to were about Norman Rockwell
exclusively
and published in the
contemporary time frame of BP’s writing of this book.

Well, that might be a good way to go, if there just weren’t so many possibilities for the definition of “hard”. “Rock” is only one–why not “stone” or “calloused” or even “solid”? There must be a gazillion names beginning with the word “stone”, for instance. I can’t think of any reason to single out “rock”. Hard also can mean “true” or “real.” Again, too many possibilities, even if Rockwell DID have 3 volumes of something.
Yes, again—it does say WORD (singular) but three volumes is not A WORD–it is thousands of WORDS. And I would not associate Norman Rockwell with words anyway–more the opposite, I’d say. He could certainly paint a thousand words–not word.
I’m just not loving this one. Sorry.

Shecrab,
I was looking at “him of Hard word” not in reference to the “3 volumes”
but as the name of the man.   Had BP written…”him of Hard words”…
it would more likely be referring to a man who wrote or spoke something hard-to-take,
or discussed difficult-to-understand subject matter….
BP did love wordplay…such as using “compass” to mean
Northpoint
and using
“cast in copper” to refer to
Lincoln
{in verse number 8}.
The fact that Rockwell uses this possible wordplay
Hard=Rock
, and the 3 volumes of
Norman Rockwell’s Saturday Evening Post artwork were published in the 1970s…
and Rockwell was a world-renown figure born in NYC, are enough evidence for me…
AP

if up to the part “speaks of indies native is hamilton parkway
doesn’t
gowanus
express
way fit for “the
natives
still speak”  ………
express
yourself means
to speak
, and i’m sure i read where
gowanu
s were
native
americans from that area
so then we come to mckinley park, where part of it is named after monsignour sweeney and richard kennedy, who both preached at St. Ephrem’s Parish
http://www.stephremparish.com/SaintEphremsHistory.asp
(found this one)
http://www.stephremparish.com/Welcome.asp
so then i looked up St. Ephrem
and he was a
HYMN
ographer and theologian
hymn
of Hard Word……..
him
of hard word
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephrem_the_Syrian
“The principal edition of the Syrian and Greek texts is that which appeared in Rome in 6 vols. fol., 1732-46,
under papal authority’, – 3 vols.
Greek text, with Latin translation, edited by J. S. Assemani, a
nd 3 vols. Syrian text,
also with Latin translation, edited by Petrus Benedictus and S. E. Assemani. “
http://www.earlychurch.org.uk/ephraem.php
okay leveler heads than mine, does this make sense?
or maybe, right above mckinley park to leif erricson square, since it is shaped like the building outlined in red….
i like that leif ericson is spelled with a
“V”
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B052/monuments
and look boogieman!
“rhapsodic man’s soil”……………….
TUNE,
Norway
http://piercingmetal.com/wordpress/wp-c … 040002.jpg

wouldn’t this make sense?  BP is telling us through roads , the path to get there
for that matter, from mckinley to leiv ericson makes a big V
and it could be the very last dragon  ;D
i guess that is a dragon around the stele and here from the park name
http://piercingmetal.com/wordpress/?p=2736#more-2736
:
boogieman, if you look on the map on p. 10….the russian line goes thru the norwegian area and leif ericson was norwegian
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B052/highlights
having a hard time finding good pictures of the troll and animal pavers, but i know we’ve posted them before

This was interesting local history…and probably not relevant to the verse,
but I found out that the construction boss for the Verrazano Bridge was known as:
John “
Hard
Nose” Murphy.
In the book entitled “The Bridge” (publ 1964) written by local
Gay Talese, he tells about “Hard Nose” Murphy and how he pushed
to build the bridge in record time.
The book also has a chapter entitled “The Indians”
which tells about the Mohawk Indians who worked on the
Verrazano bridge as iron-workers…and spent their time off
at a bar called
The Wigwam
at 75th Nevins St.
in the Gowanus area (now a pharmacy…)
This book is very interesting reading,
http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Building-V … 0802776442
along with these two blogs about the Bay Ridge area:
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … ridge.html
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … ridge.html

edison’s birthday is today……..february 11th
just thought i ‘d mention him since i keep coming across him in my research…….2  11
even in researching the cememtery  he was mentioned because he needed the copper from which marcus daly mined

Frabjous fox. . . That has a nice ring to it. Thanks!

boogieman

Yeah, I know Trohn.  But if the casque is where I think it is, we don’t need JJP Park.  It is a nice tie-in.  Know what?  I’ll take either or.

I’m confused, I thought that you thought it was by the bridge near the gazebo in JPJ park?

My thoughts- st louis location
Gray giant-giant granite blocks that spell “ZOO” at the south entrance
whirring in summer?-rotating large gates to get in the zoo-lots of people in the summer
The “arm”?—train tracks go over small paths(zoo train)
Cars abound–Huge parking lot just across the street
a sign?-indies native?—–indias national animal is a tiger
OF hard word?–tigers roar could be the last word a person in india could hear
rhapsodic soil?-hell if i know
isle of B.?–i’ll think on this some more..
no reason to tell me i’m nuts–already know it

1983
After residents and businesses formed the Copley Square Centennial Committee, the City launched a series of public workshops to establish guidelines for a new park.
It’s likely that BP knew about the redesign, but probably not until AFTER the book was published.

boogieman

I like trees as markers, but not for burial sites.  Too many roots.
As far as copely goes, I believe I read somewhere that a committee was formed in the 70’s to try to make Copely Square better.  This book was BP’s baby.  I would like to think he did his homework on burial sites.
Here’s what I’ve come up with.  Just to keep it fresh I’ll post it.  (I’ve never kept a notebook-
)
1 In the shadow
2 Of the grey giant-(
WTC
)
3 Find the arm that
4 Extends over the slender path(
Verrazano-Narrows
)
5 In summer
6 You’ll often hear a whirring sound(
boats-fishing
)
7 Cars abound(
above on bridge
)
8 Although the sign
9 Nearby
10 Speaks of Indies native(
Alexander Hamilton
)
11 The natives still speak
12 Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
13 Take twice as many east steps as the hour
14 Or more (
22 steps east from base of bridge
)
15 From the middle of one branch
16 Of the v (
concrete bridge support sections
)
17 Look down
18 And see simple roots
19 In rhapsodic man’s soil(
Gerschwin-brooklyn side
)
20 Or gaze north
21 Toward the isle of B.(
north-beyond GAZEbo is Bedloe’s Isle
)

the confirmer is that Rhapsodic Man is ‘John Paul Jones’
nothing was bigger than Led Zepllin in 1980.

Yeah, I know Trohn.  But if the casque is where I think it is, we don’t need JJP Park.  It is a nice tie-in.  Know what?  I’ll take either or.

I’m really starting to think that BP would not have buried anything that would have been disturbed.  Like copely, he had to know there was a redesign committee and I think he buried it somewhere there where it would not be disturbed.  Now……
Who wants to come to Brooklyn?  I know some (a lot of you) don’t agree, but it’ll be fun!!!!!
Fox, try again?  I gots a feeling!

Boogie:
I would love to come down to Brooklyn given enough notice.  I’m assuming you mean sometime after the ground thaws?  I’m up in Albany, and as I haven’t been to the city since re-locating up here I don’t know how long it takes from here.  I normally take a train in from my Uncle’s house in CT.  With enough notice I would likely try to get a visit in with my Uncle and then take a train to the city from there like I used to.
Let me know when you pick a date to dig and I’ll see what I can do.
And:
Would he have known there was a re-design coming to Copley?  Was that common knowledge when he buried these?  I’ve been studying the Boston idea with the thought that he would not have know such information.  Like I’ve said in the Verse #11 thread already I think the library courtyard an unlikely spot because he could have easily been stopped, not because of it’s redesign.  The Copley idea rings for me at the very least as a starting point if not the acctual burial location.
BP thought these would have been found long ago, I think the use of potentially movable objects like trees stems from his thought that these would be found long before a tree was cut down or fell on it’s own.

I like trees as markers, but not for burial sites.  Too many roots.
As far as copely goes, I believe I read somewhere that a committee was formed in the 70’s to try to make Copely Square better.  This book was BP’s baby.  I would like to think he did his homework on burial sites.
Here’s what I’ve come up with.  Just to keep it fresh I’ll post it.  (I’ve never kept a notebook-
)
1 In the shadow
2 Of the grey giant-(
WTC
)
3 Find the arm that
4 Extends over the slender path(
Verrazano-Narrows
)
5 In summer
6 You’ll often hear a whirring sound(
boats-fishing
)
7 Cars abound(
above on bridge
)
8 Although the sign
9 Nearby
10 Speaks of Indies native(
Alexander Hamilton
)
11 The natives still speak
12 Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
13 Take twice as many east steps as the hour
14 Or more (
22 steps east from base of bridge
)
15 From the middle of one branch
16 Of the v (
concrete bridge support sections
)
17 Look down
18 And see simple roots
19 In rhapsodic man’s soil(
Gerschwin-JPJ Park-Brooklyn side
)
20 Or gaze north
21 Toward the isle of B.(
north-beyond GAZEbo is Bedloe’s Isle
)

How does a plaque from June of 2014 come into play for a puzzle created in 1982? Is this plaque a replacement of a previous one? If so, what was written on the original?

Thanks Karleen. For lat/long, based on Chicago and Cleveland (and some others), the location is always in the lower of the two coordinates. The top is just the upper bracket—ie, the actual coordinates are between the two numbers. So, if 74/75 and 40/41, I read that as between 74.0 and 75.0 and between 40.0 and 41.0 (which places you below Prospect Park). Check out Chicago and Cleveland and New York (which is in 74, not 75). This should apply to all of the images.
For the Japanese clue, which is a word game starting with chicken (and I believe this only applies to the meaning of 3 Vols), chicken vol-au-vent is a French culinary dish. This caused me to translate vol from French (which is flight of flies) and that means that 3 Vols is three flights. This makes no sense unless you are at the site, realize that a man of hard word is Verrazano (hence the capital V in Vols, and Hamilton with the capital H for hard word referring back to the person whose name is in the signs nearby) and that there is a Verrazano memorial (hard word meaning name written in hard stone on memorial) in the park with a yardarm flagpole that has a place for 3 flags to fly.
Bingo, I agree. Impressive that kellter got to the same location as our solve, but the sign doesn’t work (both because it’s from 2014 and the interpretation seems strained). Same with the blue whale, which was not there in 1981/1982.

BINGO

How does a plaque from June of 2014 come into play for a puzzle created in 1982? Is this plaque a replacement of a previous one? If so, what was written on the original?

Here is the sign that is attached to the comfort station and is original to the site. So back to the drawing board for man of Hard word but this sign does speak of his dedication to public service in 3 major ways.
Back to the drawing board for man of Hard word I guess.

Lat_ninram

Bingo, I agree. Impressive that kellter got to the same location as our solve, but the sign doesn’t work (both because it’s from 2014 and the interpretation seems strained). Same with the blue whale, which was not there in 1981/1982.

So when was the whale installed? May not have been when the park was originally constructed but may have been there in the 80s. He also wasn’t blue originally.

Lat_ninram

First time post, but long time viewer (well at least since September 2018). Attached is a link to our family ‘solve’ for the NY casque (in pdf with all of the clues from the verse and the image that led us to the location). The casque is buried beneath a tree in John J. Carty Park in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn (in the literal shadow of the Verrazano Bridge). I am sorry to say that the casque is irretrievable for now because it was buried at the edge of a 2’x2’ tree pit 37 years ago and the tree in that pit has grown so large that its trunk (and roots) now cover the casque site. We dug in January 2019 with NYC Parks Department approval (after a previous dig in a nearby area in the same park in September 2018, also with approval), using a certified arborist with an air spade, but we were unable to get beneath the trunk of the tree. We do not have a casque in hand, so we look forward to being challenged. Much of the credit for our solve comes from the lively discussions on Q4T and from some of the clues on the Wiki!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BB9n … sp=sharing

Impressive solve……I admire all the work you’ve done and appreciate you sharing it. You know a ‘but’ is coming, right? lol………not really BUT I would like to interject a few things/questions: 1. How does “him of hard word” in your solve relate to the idea of “chicken” from the Japanese version? 2. The lat/long numbers in each image would indicate a city, in general. In this case NYC. That doesn’t rule out any other park in NYC–it gets the viewer to NYC vs. Cleveland. 3. Thank you for involving your family in such a fun, educational activity.

BINGO

How does a plaque from June of 2014 come into play for a puzzle created in 1982? Is this plaque a replacement of a previous one? If so, what was written on the original?

That is a problem, since the project in 2014 added lots of new signage that did not exist before all over NYC

kellter

Back to the drawing board for man of Hard word I guess.

Why back to the drawing board? You have a marble stone memorial to Verrazano with a yardarm flagpole for 3 flags, “Vols” means flight in French (which fits with the Japanese clue of a word game that starts with chicken, ie chicken vol-au-vent being a French dish and signaling the need to translate from French), Vols has a capital V which signals a clue or name, and this fits perfectly with the park. Now, if you don’t believe it is in this park, then I can understand not buying the 3 vols being the yardarm, but this park has too many specific confirmers not to be the right location.
My understanding is that there was an overhaul of the park around 1990, which is when the current 3 fountains (that correspond to the 3 water drops in the images and originally convinced me of this location) were installed in place of the shower wall (that similarly had 3 shower heads). The whale would have come as part of the overhaul.

Lat_ninram

Why back to the drawing board? You have a marble stone memorial to Verrazano with a yardarm flagpole for 3 flags, “Vols” means flight in French (which fits with the Japanese clue of a word game that starts with chicken, ie chicken vol-au-vent being a French dish and signaling the need to translate from French), Vols has a capital V which signals a clue or name, and this fits perfectly with the park. Now, if you don’t believe it is in this park, then I can understand not buying the 3 vols being the yardarm, but this park has too many specific confirmers not to be the right location.
My understanding is that there was an overhaul of the park around 1990, which is when the current 3 fountains (that correspond to the 3 water drops in the images and originally convinced me of this location) were installed in place of the shower wall (that similarly had 3 shower heads). The whale would have come as part of the overhaul.

and Rhapsodic Man’s soil is where? The v is where?

It’s in my pdf. Rhapsodic man’s soil is just soil in Brooklyn. If you walk 22 steps east from one side of the V, it would take you to the edge of a tree pit. If you look down, you will see soil. This is rhapsodic man’s soil and is where the casque is buried. The V is the entrance to the park. The building and the fence posts are shaped exactly like a V.

Lat_ninram

It’s in my pdf. Rhapsodic man’s soil is just soil in Brooklyn. If you walk 22 steps east from one side of the V, it would take you to the edge of a tree pit. If you look down, you will see soil. This is rhapsodic man’s soil and is where the casque is buried. The V is the entrance to the park. The building and the fence posts are shaped exactly like a V.

Congratulations to Lat_ninram. I read your solve in detail and believe it is under the tree!

Lat_ninram

It’s in my pdf. Rhapsodic man’s soil is just soil in Brooklyn. If you walk 22 steps east from one side of the V, it would take you to the edge of a tree pit. If you look down, you will see soil. This is rhapsodic man’s soil and is where the casque is buried. The V is the entrance to the park. The building and the fence posts are shaped exactly like a V.

I will check more closely on the v…….
Not convinced with the Rhapsodic Man interpretation only because Brooklyn seems pretty broad compared to the specific areas of residence. That is just my opinion and, in no way is a criticism of your solve.

Lat_ninram

Why back to the drawing board? You have a marble stone memorial to Verrazano with a yardarm flagpole for 3 flags, “Vols” means flight in French (which fits with the Japanese clue of a word game that starts with chicken, ie chicken vol-au-vent being a French dish and signaling the need to translate from French), Vols has a capital V which signals a clue or name, and this fits perfectly with the park. Now, if you don’t believe it is in this park, then I can understand not buying the 3 vols being the yardarm, but this park has too many specific confirmers not to be the right location.
My understanding is that there was an overhaul of the park around 1990, which is when the current 3 fountains (that correspond to the 3 water drops in the images and originally convinced me of this location) were installed in place of the shower wall (that similarly had 3 shower heads). The whale would have come as part of the overhaul.

I meant me back to the drawing board

Darn this Secret.  Look at this from Vanvouver and tell me you don’t start thinking image3 with that symbol..
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … D%26sa%3DN
But that monument is the only thing I’ve seen where something had been sunk(
sink
-image12).
http://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/lg24.jpg

Unknown

Unknown:
Is there precedent in any of the earlier finds that a letter by itself could be the first letter of a word?

Yes – it’s done 4 times in V12.

Unknown

Unknown:
Him of Hard word in 3 Vols.” is still confusing me though. Something about Vols. makes me think it isn’t neccesarily meaning volumes. Why abbreviate it?

Why indeed?
It is the only time a period is used other than at the end of each verse. Which leads me to wonder if it is indeed an abbreviation at all.
I discovered once (and still sort of think it’s relevant) that “vols” is a French word for “flights”. A “flight” can be a trip, (i.e. journey), a set of stairs, or even a “rush” of something–like ideas.

Vols. is a tricky one for sure.  Would BP have used a foriegn language in a verse?
Oh, and the Verrazano is blue not grey.  Always has been.  The WTC was grey and is in image12.  How do you figure the bridge to be the grey giant, even if it was grey?  What would get you to it without the
slender path
(Narrows Inlet)?

Alright let me try and get what we have down so far for this theory.
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
—
–Manhattan? WTC? Both possible.
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
—
— Could this be the verrazano? forgive me but I get a little confused. the narrows is the strip of water the verrazano crosses? if this is so I think it fits very well. Plus i really like “slender path” to mean narrows or something like that.
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
—
– this could be boats, fishing reels, bicycles
Cars abound
—
– there are plenty of cars near by, especially with the bridge and the road ways
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
–
— Alexander Hamilton. Fort Hamilton.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 vols.—
I really like John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin) for this one. I think it is strange to have vols. abbreviates but I just don’t think that BP would put foreign words in this. I think it is strange but it really fits snug.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
—matching this with picture 12 that gives us 22.
or more
From the middle of one branch
of the v
—————————————???
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
—-
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
Questions to ponder.
Why the “or more”? Is this just because it might not be the exact number or is it something more than that?
“Simple roots”? What exactly does this mean?
I think if we are to take this verse as JPJ Park, the most important element is going to be “the middle of one branch of the v”. Are there any good theories about this? I’ll do some more research and hopefully get up there to take a look around, but I think everyone here has such great ideas. I think if we all put our heads together we might be able to dig this one up before Summer.

bemo12

I think if we are to take this verse as JPJ Park, the most important element is going to be “the middle of one branch of the v”. Are there any good theories about this? I’ll do some more research and hopefully get up there to take a look around, but I think everyone here has such great ideas. I think if we all put our heads together we might be able to dig this one up before Summer.

It is quite refreshing to see another soul aboard the JPJ Ferry along with Boogie and myself.  Welcome aboard Bemo!  Most of your ideas listed above are what was brought up by Boogie some time ago.  I know…there is soooooo much to read.
Boogie & I did just that.  My family & I were in the Big Apple for a concert and I luckily got to meet Boogie in person and spend a brief amount of time {my flight was leaving later that day} exploring JPJ Park.  We even ‘thought’ we located our V…& I suppose it still may be correct.  We did a little digging but came up empty handed except for what appeared to be part of an old Letterman’s jacket.  I still like this as our park.  It is nice and small…it is out of the way…and it has many linkings/confirmers with our Verse.  I’m with you Bemo…I think we are really close with this one and perhaps your new set of eyes is just what is needed.

Sorry that I haven’t gotten to reading all the material. I’m sure most of it is really good, but I wanted to go head first into this verse with very little back story. But I think it is a good sign that three or more of us have come to the same comclusions (on most things).
I’m very new to this, and I probably sound naive, but I have a really good feeling about this location.
The only thing I am worried about is being able to pinpoint the exact location of this needle in what will probably seem like a neverending haystack.
I am going to go to JPJ this weekend and just look around to get my bearings, because I think I have done all the research I can do without actually looking for our v.
Did you two encounter any resistance to digging? I don’t think I am going to be doing any of that this weekend, but just incase the mood takes me over, will I be okay as long as I replace everything and keep it confined to one or two locations?

bemo12

Sorry that I haven’t gotten to reading all the material. I’m sure most of it is really good, but I wanted to go head first into this verse with very little back story. But I think it is a good sign that three or more of us have come to the same comclusions (on most things).

bemo12

I’m very new to this, and I probably sound naive, but I have a really good feeling about this location.

bemo12

The only thing I am worried about is being able to pinpoint the exact location of this needle in what will probably seem like a neverending haystack.

bemo12

I am going to go to JPJ this weekend and just look around to get my bearings, because I think I have done all the research I can do without actually looking for our v.

bemo12

Did you two encounter any resistance to digging? I don’t think I am going to be doing any of that this weekend, but just incase the mood takes me over, will I be okay as long as I replace everything and keep it confined to one or two locations?

Don’t be sorry…it is alllllloooooottttt to read!  Diving head first into seems to have worked nicely for you though, seeing as..like you state..you have come up with almost exactly the same ideas as Boogie.
It doesn’t take newbieness or naivety to feel good about this location.  Many old timers, myself included {who is probably the oldest timer around these boards}, also feel good about this park.
Welcome to our world my friend
Maybe not reading back posts is a good thing right now.  Refrain from reading anything regarding the ‘V’ and see what you come up with during your exploration of the park.  Maybe you will come up with what I noticed while perusing the area with Boogie.
That is a funny story in and of itself.  Boogie posted what happened some time back in these threads.  Read it when you get back.  Until then, I don’t think park people mind if you are just digging in a small area as long as you fill the hole when you are done.  My suggestion, don’t do any digging until you are almost positive you have the right spot… (or) as in our case, are fairly secluded from snooping neighbors and….wait…I’ll let you read the other part when you get back.
Good luck on your quest!  Maybe Boogie can meet up with you there and this time around he will be on a Successful dig since this has become his baby.

that’s one of the fascinating (or frustrating) part of these poems….that they could be made to fit anywhere…it’d take some convincing to make me think this verse was for charleston
in the shadow of the grey giant——————statue of liberty,  and the spelling “grey” because she was a gift from the french
find the arm that extends over the slender path—————–verrazano-narrows bridge
http://books.google.com/books?id=jr9odn … q=&f=false
a book about immigrants
and i’m stuck with boogieman on “john paul jones” ……it seems like the play on words BP would do with “the natives still speak of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. “……………
john paul jones, led zeppelin III, hard rock, and that album has the “immigrant song”
happy new year guys! good luck hunters!

slappybuns

that’s one of the fascinating (or frustrating) part of these poems….that they could be made to fit anywhere…

How true Slappy.  Malted, i like what you did with V10.  i remember having V5 assured to Battery Pak NYC way back when.  Talk about hitting a rock.  But I’m sticking with V10 and NY.  Check out the video below.  This one broke my heart.  But that is image12 and v10.  BTW, I have had the misfortune of my hard drive crashing, without a back up, and lost all of my Secret notes and pics.  Can anyone send me the high res images 1 thru 12?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Do645Qv … re=related

Me too!

How does this sound?
In the shadow of the
grey giant
= Verrazano
Find the
arm
= arm is something other than the bridge, like a lamp post, sign, or tree branch leaning over the water.  Or, a jetty jutting out over the water.  Hmmm….  Would be great if it only extended over water in the summer so we could end that thought and start anew with
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
.  That way the sound can be actual cars on the highway which is real close to the water.  NO TRUCKS ALLOWED. Only cars abound on the Belt Parkway.
that extends over
the slender path
=
the
meaning only one, slender meaning the Narrows Inlet.
Still lots of work to do.  I apologize for rehashing all of this, though I do feel I’m starting all over-in a way.

cw0909

i found another yard arm in shore rd pk, it also has steps and a V

cw0909,
The yard-arm location is where I was looking, too…at the
pedestrian bridge.  It may not be as obvious a “v” as the walkway
down the road near the baseball diamonds..(about 74th st.)
AP

cw0909

Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
cw0909
As much as I like that pedestrian bridge, this walkway by the baseball diamond
has “steps” that start at “the middle of one branch of the v”.
The pedestrian bridge does not obviously fulfill that part of the verse…

ap more on the 22 steps or more, rabbit i like the seahawk good catch
i tried to make um click able thumbnails, sorry couldnt do it
this was hmmm ,just south of ball field

cw0909,
Very nice shot of the “steps”.  It appears that each “step”
may require two human-steps to cover it.  That would
make the distance just over 22 human-steps…and would
put you in a nice copse of trees…perfect place to look
down and see simple-roots (maybe the tree roots on
top of the ground.)
At Shore Rd and 79th Street (by the checkerboard) there is
a long light pole “arm” over the slender path (the crosswalk or bicycle lane…aka..bike “path”).
AP

Another possible location on Shore Rd…
There is a pedestrian bridge over Lief Ericson Hyw.
(about 3 blocks from Ft. Hamilton High School)
It could be considered the “arm” over the
slender path.
At the end of the bridge, you have
to go down “steps” to get back to ground level.
If you take the Eastward steps, when you look
down, you see either grass or shrub or a few trees.
If you look North, you have an unobstructed view of
Liberty (Bedloe’s) Island.
I can envision BP digging a small hole just there
in the dark of night…unseen.

View of the Eastward steps.

One more view of the pedestrian bridge…

Overhead view of the pedestrian bridge area.
Boogie, Maybe you can take a look at this isolated area.
Unless it is under snow at present….
AP

link to that map shot i posted, choose birds eye,have a look around
http://tinyurl.com/3ypt34u
some shots of jpj
john-paul-jones-park
http://parkodyssey.blogspot.com/2010/09 … -park.html
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm … /index.htm
http://millefiorifavoriti.blogspot.com/ … yn-ny.html

ap that flag by the checker board, is called a yard arm, and it dosent look to far from the v steps

cw0909,
That Bing overview works very nicely.
Yes, that does make sense for us to see the “yard arm”
from Shore Rd….telling us to head over in that direction
to the walkway on the shoreline park area.
So we have two possible locations.
The “v” mentioned in the verse,tends to make us move further
along to about  74th street and Shore rd….
The pedestrian bridge is open to the shoreline to easily see
Liberty (Bedloe’s) Island…but may not have a “v” feature.
AP

what if the V is the v bridge, where it makes a v, and there is a small area east,of one branch of the v
whoops i see a house, wonder if the house was there then

it says gaze toward the isle, im not taking that as being able to see B island
Or gaze north Toward the isle of B.

i found another yard arm in shore rd pk, it also has steps and a V
link to a yardarm
http://www.gravesendflag.com/flag-pole_ … -gaff.html

Another “v” I wondered about was Victory Boulevard.

Here’s a random thought.
A Topaz is the Russian prize:
The royal sunstone, frozen fire.
Liberty’s copper torch is the “frozen fire”, symbolised in the picture by the white chrysanthemum. (Under Liberty, note the four columns – corresponding to the four gems…?)
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
From
Lighthouse Hill
on Staten Island, you can see the New York Harbour across the Narrows. Maybe the arm that extends is Liberty’s arm.
(From the bottom up, the red marks show Lighthouse Hill, Emerson Hill named for Ralph’s brother, Wagner College, Liberty Island. Victory Boulevard is the road joining Silver Lake Park and Clove Lakes Park, to the left of Wagner.)

Unknown

Unknown:
“The Siwash Rock” by E. Pauline Johnson [Tekahionwake] (1862-1913)
From: Legends of Vancouver. by E. Pauline Johnson. Vancouver: David Spencer, Limited, 1911. pp. 11-20.
Editor: Mary Mark Ockerbloom
[Facing Page]
THE SIWASH ROCK
Bishop & Christie, Photo.
[Page 11]
The Siwash Rock
UNIQUE, and so distinct from its surroundings as to suggest rather the handicraft of man than a whim of Nature, it looms up at the entrance to the Narrows, a symmetrical column of solid grey stone. There are no similar formations within the range of vision, or indeed within many a day’s paddle up and down the coast. Amongst all the wonders, the natural beauties that encircle Vancouver, the marvels of mountains, shaped into crouching lions and brooding beavers, the yawning canyons, the stupendous forest firs and cedars, Siwash Rock stands as distinct, as individual, as if dropped from another sphere.
I saw it first in the slanting light of a redly setting August sun; the little tuft of green shrubbery that crests its summit was black against the crimson of sea and [Page 12]  sky, and its colossal base of grey stone gleamed like flaming polished granite.
My old tillicum lifted his paddle-blade to point towards it. “You know the story?” he asked. I shook my head (experience has taught me his love of silent replies, his moods of legend-telling). For a time we paddled slowly; the rack detached itself from its background of forest and shore, and it stood forth like a sentinel–erect, enduring, eternal.
“Do you think it stands straight–like a man?” he asked.
“Yes, like some noble-spirited, upright warrior,” I replied.
“It is a man,” he said, “and a warrior man, too; a man who fought for everything that was noble and upright.”
“What do you regard as everything that is noble and upright, chief?” I asked, curious as to his ideas. I shall not forget the reply; it was but two words–astounding, amazing words. He said simply:
“Clean fatherhood.”
Through my mind raced tumultuous recollections of numberless articles in [Page 13]  yet numberless magazines, all dealing with the recent “fad” of motherhood, but I had to hear from the lip of a Squamish Indian chief the only treatise on the nobility of “clean fatherhood” that I have yet unearthed. And this treatise has been an Indian legend for centuries; and, lest they forget how all-important those two little words must ever be, Siwash Rock stands to remind them, set there by the Deity as a monument to one who kept his own life clean, that cleanliness might be the heritage of the generations to come.
It was “thousands of years ago” (all Indian legends begin in extremely remote times) that a handsome boy chief journeyed in his canoe to the upper coast for the shy little northern girl whom he brought home as his wife. Boy though he was, the young chief had proved himself to be an excellent warrior, a fearless hunter, and an upright, courageous man among men. His tribe loved him, his enemies respected him, and the base and mean and cowardly feared him.
The customs and traditions of his [Page 14]  ancestors were a positive religion to him, the sayings and the advices of the old people were his creed. He was conservative in every rite and ritual of his race. He fought his tribal enemies like the savage that he was. He sang his war-songs, danced his war-dances, slew his foes, but the little girl-wife from the north he treated with the deference that he gave his own mother, for was she not to be the mother of his warrior son?
The year rolled round, weeks merged into months, winter into spring, and one glorious summer at daybreak he wakened to her voice calling him. She stood beside him, smiling.
“It will be to-day,” she said proudly.
He sprang from his couch of wolf-skins and looked out upon the coming day: the promise of what it would bring him seemed breathing through all his forest world. He took her very gently by the hand and led her through the tangle of wilderness down to the water’s edge, where the beauty spot we moderns call Stanley Park bends about Prospect Point. “I must swim,” he told her. [Page 15]
“I must swim, too,” she smiled, with the perfect understanding of two beings who are mated. For, to them, the old Indian custom was law–the custom that the parents of a coming child must swim until their flesh is so clear and clean that a wild animal cannot scent their proximity. If the wild creatures of the forests have no fear of them, then, and only then, are they fit to become parents, and to scent a human is in itself a fearsome thing to all wild creatures.
So those two plunged into the waters of the Narrows as the grey dawn slipped up the eastern skies and all the forest awoke to the life of a new, glad day. Presently he took her ashore, and smilingly she crept away under the giant trees. “I must be alone,” she said, “but come to me at sunrise: you will not find me alone then.” He smiled also, and plunged back into the sea. He must swim, swim, swim through this hour when his fatherhood was coming upon him. It was the law that he must be clean, spotlessly clean, so that when his child looked out upon the world it would [Page 16]  have the chance to live its own life clean. If he did not swim hour upon hour his child would come to an unclean father. He must give his child a chance in life; he must not hamper it by his own uncleanliness at its birth. It was the tribal law–the law of vicarious purity.
As he swam joyously to and fro, a canoe bearing four men headed up the Narrows. These men were giants in stature, and the stroke of their paddles made huge eddies that boiled like the seething tides.
“Out from our course!” they cried as his lithe, copper-coloured body arose and fell with his splendid stroke. He laughed at them, giants though they were, and answered that he could not cease his swimming at their demand.
“But you shall cease!” they commanded. “We are the men [agents] of the Sagalie Tyee [God], and we command you ashore out of our way!” (I find in all these Coast Indian legends that the Deity is represented by four men, usually paddling an immense canoe.)
He ceased swimming, and, lifting his [Page 17]  head, defied them. “I shall not stop, nor yet go ashore,” he declared, striking out once more to the middle of the channel.
“Do you dare disobey us,” they cried–”we, the men of the Sagalie Tyee? We can turn you into a fish, or a tree, or a stone for this; do you dare disobey the Great Tyee?”
“I dare anything for the cleanliness and purity of my coming child. I dare even the Sagalie Tyee Himself, but my child must be born to a spotless life.”
The four men were astounded. They consulted together, lighted their pipes, and sat in council. Never had they, the men of the Sagalie Tyee, been defied before. Now, for the sake of a little unborn child, they were ignored, disobeyed, almost despised. The lithe young copper-coloured body still disported itself in the cool waters; superstition held that should their canoe, or even their paddle-blades, touch a human being, their marvellous power would be lost. The handsome young chief swam directly in their course. They dared not run him down; if so, they would become as other men. While [Page 18]  they yet counselled what to do, there floated from out the forest a faint, strange, compelling sound. They listened, and the young chief ceased his stroke as he listened also. The faint sound drifted out across the waters once more. It was the cry of a little, little child. Then one of the four men, he that steered the canoe, the strongest and tallest of them all, arose, and, standing erect, stretched out his arms towards the rising sun and chanted, not a curse on the young chief’s disobedience, but a promise of everlasting days and freedom from death.
“Because you have defied all things that come in your path we promise this to you,” he chanted: “you have defied what interferes with your child’s chance for a clean life, you have lived as you wish your son to live, you have defied us when we would have stopped your swimming and hampered your child’s future. You have placed that child’s future before all things, and for this the Sagalie Tyee commands us to make you for ever a pattern for your tribe. You shall never die, but you shall stand through all the [Page 19]  thousands of years to come, where all eyes can see you. You shall live, live, live as an indestructible monument to Clean Fatherhood.”
The four men lifted their paddles and the handsome young chief swam inshore; as his feet touched the line where sea and land met he was transformed into stone.
Then the four men said, “His wife and child must ever be near him; they shall not die, but live also.” And they, too, were turned into stone. If you penetrate the hollows in the woods near Siwash Rock you will find a large rock and a smaller one beside it. They are the shy little bride-wife from the north, with her hour-old baby beside her. And from the uttermost parts of the world vessels come daily throbbing and sailing up the Narrows. From far trans-Pacific ports, from the frozen North, from the lands of the Southern Cross, they pass and repass the living rock that was there before their hulls were shaped, that will be there when their very names are forgotten, when their crews and their captains have taken their long last voyage, [Page 20]  when their merchandise has rotted, and their owners are known no more. But the tall, grey column of stone will still be there–a monument to one man’s fidelity to a generation yet unborn–and will endure from everlasting to everlasting. [Page 20]

The first two lines,
In the shadow
Of the grey Giant
I’ve already noted a visual similarity in the Siwash Rock to the 180 degree flipped collar in image9,
Now I’m curious about this writing by poet Pauline Johnson, there is talk of giants and Siwash Rock, standing over 50 feet tall is described as grey.

From FB: page 6
Some time ago “unknown_user” posted what may be the best theories yet for this verse. The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge is situated such that Bedloe’s Island (isle of B?) is visible. “Narrows” may be a reference to the slender path. He goes on to say that rhapsodic man’s soil may refer to Gershwin Park in Brooklyn. Only problem is, Gershwin Park is very far away from the bridge (bounded by Stanley Ave., Linden Blvd., Van Siclen Ave., and Vermont St.). Can this be taken further?
« Reply #38 on: 2004-07-20, 19:43:37 »
From unknownuser-page3
Just a couple more thoughts:
1. In the shadow of the grey giant: WTC
2. Find the arm that extends over the slender path: Verrazano-Narrows Bridge
3.  In Summer you’ll often hear a whirring sound: Helicopter tours
4. Cars abound-Duh it’s a bridge in NYC
Middle part is kinda still evading me.
5. In Rhapsodic man’s soil- Possibly Gershwin Park in Brooklyn.
6. or gaze north towards the isle of B. – Block Island discovered by Verrazano.
Just some thoughts.  Need to figure out the middle about Hard word and Natives.
Ok I’m an idiot, so what! lol  Thanks for not calling me one.
Unknown_user had it.  If you put yourself in the crown of the Statue of Liberty, you are looking through the eyes of the Lady in image12 and what does she see, both churches we have found.  The one in Brooklyn and the one in Bayonne.  Ellis Island domes if you want.  She sees the grey giant in the form of the twin tower which
She
is in the shadow of.  She sees the
arm
extend over the
slender path
.  Look at the image, the Lady has risen above the water looking out and sees everthing in the NYC harbor.  I’ll bet, if you look at the angle of her eyes, she looking right at the VNB.  And that the arch she is in, VNB arch, is actually infront of her.  The map of NJ right behind her, in her hair.  I know no one wants to see that.  But she is off the coast of Jersey, not NY.  Or the backwards NJ on her right shoulder.  You can find the seagull/eagle on Trohns Fort Hamilton monument.  Under the bridge, near the bridge, you are surrounded by cars, boats and bikes with cards in the wheels, whatever.
If being in the shadow puts you at the SOL, and bedloe’s Island is also part of that same shadow, then I still contend that the ARM and the middle of one branch of the v are the same.

Read page 10 on this thread Reggie.  Image12 would seem to be the obvious, but we’ll wait and see.  A lot of smart people here have other ideas they may be correct.  We just don’t know yet.  Isn’t this fun!

I would just like to point out (if this hasen’t been said already)
“Take twice as many east steps of the hour or more”  We would need to take 22 steps, because the hour in the picture is 11:00.  (or more
)
-regulus

Trohn, here’s a pic from under the bridge.  You can’t see the jetty but it’s there below the concrete wall.

mighty slender path…..
Thanks for the photo!

Here is Ellis Island.  To the riight of that is Bedloe’s (aka Liberty Island).  The thing that bothers me about Bedloe’s is that it had many, many names besides Bedloe’s.  Why would BP pick that name to disguise it?
plus:  From Coney Island
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bnittoli/218672078/
and from the WTC.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88058079@N00/284932846/
Tell me I’m crazy.  That pic from the towers;
In the shadow of the grey giant
= tower
find the arm that extends over the slender path
= Verrazano over the Narrows
The Narrows and
slender
pretty much got me going on this a few days ago.  Did BP want us on the observation deck of the WTC?
Man, I’m all over the place.  Can anyone slow me down a bit?

boogieman

The Narrows and
slender
pretty much got me going on this a few days ago.  Did BP want us on the observation deck of the WTC?
Man, I’m all over the place.  Can anyone slow me down a bit?

stick to the link with Hamilton.
(and why do the natives still speak of him?)
I checked out Paterson and the Great Falls.
(a statue of Alex on the overlook)
Nothing else panned out there.

Trohn

stick to the link with Hamilton.
(and why do the natives still speak of him?)

It fits either way Trohn.  Image 12 has the rectangular shape which many agree looks like one of the towers.  Now in 82′, one could have seen the image, thought as we have thought, tower, Statue of liberty face, and went to both.  In 81′ & 82′, the crown of the Lady was open to the public.  And what would you see there? You have verse10 in your hand!
First, you would notice the towers and Manhattan, Ellis Island, and the VNB.  You may have put slender and Narrows together and said “wow”.  Now what Indies Native could be connected to the VNB?  So you go to the VN and find Hamilton and after a couple of years you find Q4T and Frishkie’s post from page 3 of this thread, or FRSTPRZFA’s post from page 2, both from the summer of 2004,  and shazaam! you are at the site.  All this confirmed by FB’s post of Hard Word in 3 vols. on page 9.  Now what?
edit: the natives still speak of Hamilton in a way because there are many a bank down there called Hamilton’s Savings bank.

Other walkway sculptures were created in 2001….

Wow, boogs, sounds like you may be homing in on it! And without any help from the P as well. Look for geographic and local tie-ins to P12.

Boogie-
see if you can post a good picture of St Micael Roman Catholic in Sunset park….
(do not know if you can see it from the V)
edit:  Forget that…. 42nd and 4th.  Way too far away
even if the towers rising high in the air.

Thanks for the encouragement FB.  And thanks to trohn for the music man.  As far as P12 goes, I’ve been walking around with a 10×8 full color print-out of the image for 3 years.  I should have deciphered something by now.  Lady Liberty, Tower 2, and the #74 are the only confirmers I can see.  Maybe the JPJ Park will show something else.  I don’t know.

Boogie Man/ Forest :
(1)  It makes sense that one of the casques would be in Brooklyn
(where he lived)
(2) It makes sense that he knows Brooklyn very well and probably
has been holding on to the knowledge that one of Led Zepplin was the
Father of the American navy
(3)  From previous casque searches, we know how hard it is to bury/retrieve
from a National Park area (Fort Hamilton)
(4)  So…. we have Rhapsodic man
….    we have in the sahdows
… we have the Grey Giant
..  and I was considering that where in the park was dinsitictive enough to
take steps off of…
Then I saw the photo of the rock with the plaque…
“The first place in the New York to repell the Bristish Arms”
Arms—>Army Firepower—>Guns and Bullets
there fore…. ‘The arm that extends over the slender path’
would be a single cannon (in ‘Cannon Ball Park’)
Find the correct cannon to start at, you can fllow the verse to the casque.

Back to local.live.com!!!!!
hey, look what we have in brooklyn at JPJ Park…
Benches!  Couldn’t resist.
Whoa.  There’s the gate to FT Hamilton to the right.  I wonder what is dead center…..
I can smell it baby!!!!!

FWIW, I found these pics of John Paul Jones Park in NY.  I found the first pic below at flickr and the second one at webshots:

Does anyone know if there are any ventilator fans and airshafts or ventilation buildings in or around John Paul Jones Park or the Fort Hamilton area?  These would specifically be the kind that draw in fresh air and suck out exhaust air from underground tunnels( used at both the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels) or perhaps nearby subway tunnels.  If so, they might account for the “whirring” sound described in V 10.  This would  espically be so if you read the line, “You’ll often hear a whirring sound.” as a single sentence.  That would imply that you hear the “whirring” sound every day, rather than just in summer.  As in “In summer, You’ll often hear a whirring sound”.

Nice nice nice…. really like where this is heading….especially since I too will be heading that way…but apparently, I may be several months too late
.  Just kidding…if you feel it boogie, dig it up.  Just promise to give me the grand tour in July.

boogieman

Happy New Year and Welcome Back!  Just realize one thing Adoks, it isn’t that nobody is listening, it’s just that nobody is listenening.  Keep plugging until someone hears you.  Anything you type will be read over and over even when no one hears you.  But someone
will
, sooner or later.
Ok, back to the verse.  Can someone come up with some solid reasoning for my wanting to make WEST STEPS for what is written;
Take twice as many EAST steps as the hour
.
Easterly winds
go out to the west right?  Here’s why I need to go west.  My friend Kathy from the Brooklyn weddings, she tells me that the entrance to FT Hamilton is under the Verrazano just where the road splits (or branches).  Can not see it from the birds eye view link.  From what she tells me, there are no other signs, except for the Ft Hamilton Parkway, nearby.  There is a guards gate at the entrance, so to go east, is to go east 22 steps into the complex, where there’s NO DIGGING!  If you go west 22 steps, you get real close to John Paul Jones Park.
Just hoping that the way BP worded that line, with
east steps
instead of
steps east
, I could kind of twist it so it fits into my little twisted mind!!!!!

Now we know the answer.
“take twice as many east steps as the hour”
take the steps east from the arm ( cannon)
“or more from the middle of one branch, of the v”
take more than twice  as many from the Verrazano (not necessarily east)
The burial place is between the cannon and the bridge (or the branch of the v)
Or the between the cannon and the middle of the large concrete bridge support.

fox

Nice nice nice…. really like where this is heading….especially since I too will be heading that way…but apparently, I may be several months too late
.  Just kidding…if you feel it boogie, dig it up.  Just promise to give me the grand tour in July.

C’mon, if this was for a million bucks, I would have stopped talking to you all.  I’m loyal to the hunt and to the reason we’re all doing this.
I’ll wait.  I just hope we can nail it by the summer!!!

A final nail in this location… if you would induldge.
http://www.fotosearch.com/DVA001/001-0774/
The cannon installed in the park around 1900
is a specific type:  a parrot cannon.
Or this one from somewhere….
http://www.fotosearch.com/AGE054/l33-296840/
Maybe someone can do a super imposition on the image 12 thread.

boogieman

Verse 10
In the shadow———————————-
Statue of Liberty
Of the grey giant——————————
Twin Tower #2 (observation deck)

Two different thoughts just for the sake of argument… (1) Could both of these lines mean “in an area near the Statue of Liberty”?  I like the way this works with “giant” being in the form of a person.  (2) Could the grey giant be the large obelisk in John Paul Jones Park?

Could be. Simply the word “giant” could put us in NYC (as in
New York Giants
). So it could be a statue of any New Yorker.
Or it could be a play on words. A riddle writer might use “grey giant” as a misleading play on words, like substituting “compass” for a particular lighthouse with a suggestive name.

Ooh, I like the NY Giants idea (not the NY Giants themselves, however
).

There appear to be 22 steps in this part of Charles Schurz Park.
Just looking around….
The statue in the garden is Peter Pan.

There are at least two statues of A. Hamilton in Manhattan;
one in Central Park and one on the border of Central Park
at the Museum Of the City of New York…Hmmm
Will the casque be in Manhattan or Brooklyn?
East River Park…or Shore Rd. Park?

Another possible candidate for “him of Hard word”…
Edward Durell Stone…architect
Several books written about him and by him.
Though not a native born New Yorker, he lived there and
worked there and died there.
His list of New York buildings is long.
I have not yet looked on a map to see just where they are located
as pertaining to this hunt.

AP, that’s just amazing (the bear)! A very good match. This could be one of those little clues to let us know we’re at least in the right city (like maybe the “legeater” lamppost in Montreal?).

animal painter

Another possible candidate for “him of Hard word”…
Edward Durell Stone…architect
Several books written about him and by him.
Though not a native born New Yorker, he lived there and
worked there and died there.
His list of New York buildings is long.
I have not yet looked on a map to see just where they are located
as pertaining to this hunt.

As much as I like the word play of Hard-word…Woodward,
I must admit that Edward Durell
Stone
, with his
extensive catalog of New York architecture is much more
likely to be “him of Hard word”.
One of Stone’s famous New York buildings is just
a few blocks from Central Park…in our Manhattan area.
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/UES/UES034.htm
Some of his other buildings are even more famous:
(and are in the nearby area)
Radio City Music Hall, Museum of Modern Art, Columbus Circle
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/ARCH/ARCH-Stone.htm
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID095.htm

Looking for any out-of-the-way park on the East River
to be able to look north at Blackwell’s or Belmont Island.
Here is a small park just north of East River Park…
It is called
Murphy Park
, and it has a ball-diamond.
If you walk 22 steps toward East…starting from the half way
of the branch of the “v”, you would end up in the secluded
corner of the park, near a tree that might just match the
tree in the shoulder robe-folds.

Are you ready for this?
Just when you thought it was safe to say that we
knew
all
of the possibilities for “isle of B”….
Who knew that Ward’s Island was once a separate island,
which is now connected to Randall’s Island by landfill?
“…the island’s name changed several times. At times it was known as “
Buchanan’s Island
” and “
Great Barn Island
,”
both of which were likely corruptions of the surname “
Barendt
,” the name of an early owner.”
If this is a possible “isle of B”, we could be standing on
Hellgate Field, Astoria Park or (maybe Charles Schurz on Manhattan)
to gaze at the “isle of B”!
Hellgate and Astoria parks are in Queens .  Is that still Gershwin’s soil?
If BP wanted to really throw us off by using this name for Ward’s Island…it worked!
All of the visual clues are still on Manhattan Island…Maybe we are supposed to stay
on the West side of the East River…
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&rlz=1B3 … CB8QnwIwAA
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/M107/highlights/12869

Here is a link to the earlier map of 1896 showing the
separate and distinct Ward’s Island…previously Buchanan’s Island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Long_ … p_1896.jpg

Guess what there is at Carl Schurz Park?….
a yard
arm
!  This park is going to need an inspection!

Alice and the bear are good, and according to your map they’re in the right relative positions too. Russia is “The Great Bear”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Bear

I still think it doesnt come more exact than that.  That is our Lady Liberty.  I also still think this is an exact match as well…..
I know, I know.  Forget about the body…the head is exact.  Maybe the body leads us elsewhere…..

fox

I know, I know.  Forget about the body…the head is exact.  Maybe the body leads us elsewhere…..

If that is the Chrysler Building, then how could the casque be in Brooklyn?
That building is in mid-town.
It could be that it is just pointing us to NY.  But why, we have NY already, no?
Same thing with the Ellis eagle which has the exact face too, although it’s closer to Brooklyn.
I think the only sure thing is that it is definitely an eagle.  There’s alot in the wings.
The American Eagle and the Statue of Liberty……NY…….

Thanks, Boogieman.  It is a close match.  I was in Chicago recently, and I went to the casque site.  The image for that treasure also features statuary.

so the slender path is the area just below the bidge and next to the parkway
is it possible the location is straight down from the bridge on the slender path?
It seems to me the verse just says look down and there you go.
It looks like a parking lot or something. is it diggable?

The only way this would make sense to me is if the “slender path” is the Narrows itself. That’s what led us to this spot in the first place.

Sorry to say catherwood, there are no maps or trails there.  The park itself can only be three, maybe four acres tops.  Then, it’s all city blocks.
As far as the “points” on the bridge, there are 23 of them.  I know you cannot stand on the bridge, especially at the 22nd point and look down.  Even so, can we establish that these points can be interpreted as steps?  Those 22 steps in actuality seem to measure near a quarter mile.  How can we interpret them to be Step 1, Step 2, etc.?  And coincidentally, those points are shaped like these, v and ^.  At this point, I don’t think we can incorporate that into the verse, or can we?
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
of the v
hmmm.
(edit: Hang loose Turtle and Sonoran, just getting ready, I haven’t forgotten about WSP.)

boogieman

The “or” irks me too.  Look down or gaze north?

I’ll admit to not following this recent bit of brainstorming.  Without knowing anything about the location, a thought comes to mind about that “or”.  What if there was a plaque or trail map of some kind back in 1982, which shows the lay of the land ahead?  You could either look down at the map or gaze up from the map facing north, looking at either the sight itself or the representation of the sight on the map.

boogieman

As far as the “points” on the bridge, there are 23 of them.  I know you cannot stand on the bridge, especially at the 22nd point and look down.

I thought that too… but at least one days it’s posible…
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501EED71130F931A35752C1A9679C8B63
http://www.nycmarathon.org/home/index.php
Which will be the shadow’s path of the tower east in those days?

Okay, one of my summary posts, just to spur some thought. Nothing much new to add, but there are tidbits scattered here and there. Read on…
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
frishkie suggests this may refer to someone named Grey.
The Grey Giant is the name of a rock formation, popular among climbers, in Joshua Tree National Park in southern California:
http://www.climbingjtree.com/rock/db/wonderland_north/the_fortress/
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
From “Poet’s Path” by Robert W. Service:
My garden hath a slender path
With ivy overgrown,
A secret place where once would pace
A poet all alone;
I see him now with fretted brow,
Plunged deep in thought;
And sometimes he would write maybe,
And sometimes he would not.
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
maltedfalcon
: Ferries run all year round. Perhaps the whirring sound is Cicadas.
Cars abound
nectarbean
: “Cars Abound” is far too literal to be literal.
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
Egbert
: Could mean “N. D.’s native,” as in North Dakota.
frishkie
: Could refer to Alexander Hamilton, born in the British West Indies:
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_park/historical_signs/hs_historical_sign.php?id=11942
Indians (aka Native Americans) used to live in NYC, so there must be signs around. Battery Park is at the tip of NYC, and you can see the Statue of Liberty from there. The National Museum of the American Indian is located at the tip of Battery Park.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Why is Hard capitalized? Why is Vols. abbreviated?
Volcanoes? Volunteers? Volumes?
Three Tennesseeans? Three
volumes
, as in quiet / medium / loud? That would fit well with “speak,” but it’s difficult to think what the context might be.
johann
: A friend of mine suggests North Dakota for this verse. The lines “The natives still speak / Of him of Hard word,” as well as the “grey giant,” could refer to a statue of an Indian chief carved in a mountain.
johann
: “him of Hard word” may refer to the President Harding’s Visit memorial in Stanley Park in Vancouver.
I find it unlikely that Harding would be referred to as “him of Hard word;” maybe it’s just me.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
mm2587
: A reference to the hour in the accompanying image, whatever that is.
The verses sometimes reference the matching image, as we know from Image 3 / Roanoke.
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
Peculiar word choice here. Why “simple” roots?
In rhapsodic man’s soil
George Gershwin (
Rhapsody in Blue
) grew up on the lower east side of NYC.
Boba Fett
: In Rhapsodic man’s soil- Possibly Gershwin Park in Brooklyn.
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
Egbert
: Liberty Island used to be known as Bedloe’s Island.
maltedfalcon
: Liberty Island is south of Manhattan and the Statue of Liberty is pretty much green
danok2
: Roosevelt Island used to be called “Blackwell’s Island”.
http://www.correctionhistory.org/rooseveltisland/
Fenix
: As for the Isle of B, U Thant Island which is across from the UN headquarters on 42nd was known as Belmont Island up until about 1976 or so.
http://www.answers.com/topic/u-thant-island
johann
: off West Vancouver is Bowen Island, hence “the isle of B.”
(P.S. … Siskel & Egbert; I get it, hardee har har)

I think this verse goes to NY though it could go with STL but I do not think so. I think verse 6 goes to STL.

Yep.  yep, yep.  Think!  Think!  I’m still trying.  Good observation Shannon

erexere

I was reading an interesting book last night that had a good story titled “Point Grey”. It contained a story about a giant rock with a name that starts with H-. It says
The Sagalie Tyee transformed the God of the West Wind into the large rock named H-. It describes the transformation of the Wind as first having a mighty roar for a war-cry, then subdued to a trembling and sobbing gentle breeze, and lastly a whispering note before being turned to stone. It could work as the him of Hard word in 3 Vol.

Here it is….
http://www.fullbooks.com/Legends-of-Vancouverx78471.html
…interesting.
But, taken from a story about Vancouver, west coast?
(Edit: I should probably read the whole thing….tie-in to the 6 nation tribes…maybe.)

I was moved to look more closely at a possible Pauline Johnson idea when I discovered one of her poems is titled “In the Shadows”.

ANY isolated area could considered an “isle”

Unknown

Unknown:
The Pale-face calls the place Point Grey, but the Indians yet speak of it as ‘ The Battle Ground of the West Wind.’

I was reading an interesting book last night that had a good story titled “Point Grey”. It contained a story about a giant rock with a name that starts with H-. It says
The Sagalie Tyee transformed the God of the West Wind into the large rock named H-. It describes the transformation of the Wind as first having a mighty roar for a war-cry, then subdued to a trembling and sobbing gentle breeze, and lastly a whispering note before being turned to stone. It could work as the him of Hard word in 3 Vol.

Do one more comparison… the eagle on the American Express building, located just about adjacent to the NYSE.

Glossiphoniidae

Do one more comparison… the eagle on the American Express building, located just about adjacent to the NYSE.

New York Seagull Exchange?

Egbert

I have not yet researched all of the other info about this building, including the many statues and carvings all around it. If you think I may be on the right track, please feel free to research it.

Here’s a comparison:

Glossiphoniidae

Do one more comparison… the eagle on the American Express building, located just about adjacent to the NYSE.

nice i remember google walking and didnt see that, guess i was looking closer to 8-10 feet up LOL
http://goo.gl/maps/8LNfF
tried to find a better img of this one
http://goo.gl/maps/WifaE

For some reason the Hamilton customs bird cuts off from the comparison when viewing the post on my phone so here’s a link in case others have the same issue.
http://i.imgur.com/euT3y53.jpg

forgot hamilton is buried in this graveyard
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg … pi=9689732
http://goo.gl/maps/WifaE

Glossiphoniidae

Do one more comparison… the eagle on the American Express building, located just about adjacent to the NYSE.

I still like Ellis Island of the 3

George Gershwin, Composer of Rhapsody in Blue, was born in Brooklyn
so by defininition all of Brooklyn is Rhapsodic Man’s soil.
thats probably a little more likely than the John Baldwin connection.

Assuming that all of Brooklyn could be rhapsodic man’s soil, is it possible that the casque is buried at Fort Hamilton?  The Harbor Defense Museum is in the fort and is open to the public. According to the website, it has an overlook area with a nice view of the Verrazano Bridge and Narrows. See link below. I know somebody mentioned this place before (under image 12) but I’m not sure if anyone was ableto check into it. Perhaps there is a “v” there.
http://www.harbordefensemuseum.com/
Shannon

This is Stalney Park, is it not?  (See the image 9 thread.)

Oops.  Typo, sorry.  Stanley Park.

Johann, yes, this is Stanley Park.
wilhouse

Some thoughts on this verse:
1.  Re Gershwin:  Born in Brooklyn, grew up on the Lower East Side.  Parents emigrants from St. Petersburg.  Birth name: Jacob Gershowitz.
2.  Only working amusment park in NYC is Coney Island’s Astroland.
3.  “Indies native” could also refer to Columbus.  He was searching for the East Indies.  There are a number of monuments to Columbus in NYC.
3a.  There is a Columbus Park on the Lower East Side.  Mosco Street intersects one of the sides.
4.  I think that
“Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound”
can break down as:
“Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer”
“You’ll often hear a whirring sound”
rather than:
“Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path”
“In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound”
5.  Roosevelt Island used to be called “Blackwell’s Island”.
If this and P12 refer to NYC, we need to narrow it down to a borough.  There’s just too much to consider otherwise.
-Dan

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
In trying to break down the literal meaning of the lines, here is my take.
The locals still speak of this person.
Now the question is… do the locals speak in 3 vols, or is the Hard word divided into 3 vols.
The later is more likely which makes “Hard word” become an object rather than a description of “him”
which makes the word “of” imply that “him” owns or is known for the 3 vol. of Hard word
The reason locals would speak of this person is likely because he or she was also local, or did something locally and gained enough recognition (positive or negative) to not be forgotten.
So with Slappy’s mention of Prospect park, the logical local famous person who published something with 3 volumes, which happened to be 3 books on Hard (or difficult to understand) words and concepts, is Isaac Asimov.  (noted in my recent postings)

I was reading James Joyce’s collection of short stories,
Dubliners
, today and encountered the phrase “hard word” in the story
Two Gallants
. I didn’t understand what it meant in context:
“Whenever any job was vacant a friend was always ready to give him the hard word.”
I found a website that explains it:
hard word
: unpleasant information (that employment might be available for Corley, who doesn’t like to work).
I don’t know that this really helps, but it’s not every day I encounter that phrase. Could it mean “unpleasant information” in
The Secret
? “The natives still speak / Of him of… unpleasant information”?

I always took that line to mean that the natives spoke of him (whoever he is) in a negative manner…in other words, whatever “he” did..the natives did not think too highly of him….

deusrex

My Buddy Ian posted my solution a few months ago, I would really like to hear some feedback on it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jww3gold1XBQ8yabIhTugz1xA7-x9_1-quut3cQsOoc/edit?usp=sharing
We recently went to Brooklyn to hunt for this treasure – we went to the Russian Orthodox Cathedral, scouted around McCarren Park (next to the Cathedral) and then went to John Paul Jones park. We didn’t really find much new information, just confirmed the hunches we had before. The Cathedral is a really close match, and John Paul Jones park seems like a good enough spot for this treasure to be hidden in. The “monument” thing I found on google and bing maps in my solution is an old Telecommunications box. I do think there are issues with the treasure being buried here – would he have buried it so close to underground cabling? With that said, I am
very confident
that the treasure is buried somewhere nearby John Paul Jones park in Brooklyn, NY.
Lady Liberty and the Eagle bring you to NYC.
The Cathedral brings you to Brooklyn.
The verse brings you to John Paul Jones park.
There is water and crashing waves next to the park.
Let me know what you think
-deusrex

JPJ Park is where boogie and I dug appx 7 years ago. We both like this as the casque site.

The two lines read
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Is this a reference to:
History of the Indian Tribes of North America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o … th_America

I don’t think so, but your mileage may vary…
I think the natives referenced are haitian.

it refers to the book about Harding’s Latin American Policy and points you to the statue of Bolivar in Central Park specifically. it also takes you one other place, not in NYC.

Oh no, not John Lennon..  That would lead us to this memorial:
http://homepages.borland.com/davidi/ima … e.jpgwhich
in turns leads us right back into the center of Central Park.  :-/

Deuce

I disagree with the idea that the isle of B has to actually be seen. Just my opinion. The verse says gaze north “toward” the isle of B. It doesn’t say anything about “seeing” it.

I dunno, that doesn’t make much sense to me.
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
The verse is inviting you to gaze north, to take in the view. Why gaze north if you can’t see anything…?
The next verse ends with a similar injunction…
Look north at the wing
And dig
To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable
Determination
Your goal.
You might as well suggest that you can’t see the wing.
Those simple roots are a mystery.

I appreciate the discussion too. I had said that some of the old posts had good ideas, but that wasn’t meant to take away from the current theories (Prospect, the high school, etc.). I keep searching and trying to look at new ways of interpreting lines to avoid the staleness you speak of. There isn’t much to be done on the current theories except for try digging… Which I just did at Roanoke, and plan to do again soon. I’ll be in Chicago again twice this month if you want any pics.
WR – I was thinking that the “isle of B.” is something to be seen… just not an island; but more like something like the picture below . I’m not quite sure of the date of the sign (the font seems rather modern) – or even if it’s a sign, cause it’s not the store name – or if it is engraved, but it’s only a block north of the tavern sign on Broad St.

JoshCornell

it refers to the book about Harding’s Latin American Policy and points you to the statue of Bolivar in Central Park specifically. it also takes you one other place, not in NYC.

The First US Congress met three times so there are three volumes. The first two meetings were held at Federal Hall in NYC, the third in Phil.

Another question/ problem I have with these1980 aerial photos is , ( unless someone knows for certain),were all these aerial photos taken in 1980 for all the US locations and published in 1980 ( seems like a massive undertaking), or were they taken in prior years stitched together and published in 1980 ?

Diceycat

Relax. I find it a bit disconcerting that the 1999 topo shows the buildings there but the 1995 aerial doesn’t. Maybe just a big artifact right or did they screw up?

No big crisis there, simply in the past the USGS updated their maps on 5, 10 year cycle.
unless something really really big changed and then they would put out a new map specifically for the changes.
Remember back in the 80s these maps were basically all hand drawn still.
The proper way to use a map was to find the most current map and then also use (if available aerial photographs.) the conjunction of the two would give you the most accurate information available at the time.

MrSeabass

Edit:
there was no such thing as easily accessible satellite imagery in 1980.
Unless it’s a large map or a street grid, there is no way at all he would have photographically-accurate, top-down images of small reference landscape features.

Yes that’s true, but, there was the soil division of the us geological survey. and every 5 years there goal was to photograph everything from airplanes. at a scale to match the largest of the usgs topo quads.
Every major city had an office and you could go down and check out the photos (buy copies if you wanted, very cheaply) all black and white photos.
Farmers would use this service a lot, but so would builders and developers.
I used this for hiking maps. because the photos were cheaper than the maps,
(I suspect that a lot of the photos on HistoricAerialphotos.com) are from there.)
About the time the terraserver came online, is the last time I can remember seeing a soil division office. They just aren’t any around anymore.

maltedfalcon

About the time the terraserver came online, is the last time I can remember seeing a soil division office. They just aren’t any around anymore.

Well I stand corrected, they are still around….
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-s … otography/

maltedfalcon

About the time the terraserver came online, is the last time I can remember seeing a soil division office. They just aren’t any around anymore.

They were essentially deemed unnecessary when the online version of the web soil survey hit the web.
https://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm
It’s nothing spectacular for older aerial or satellite imagery, but I use it regularly for up to date soil classification when designing private septic systems throughout New England.

MrSeabass

Just stop already. It’s proven there was no baseball field of any type there until DECADES after the book was published. You are being delusional.

Relax , don’t want you to pop a blood vessel

So does anyone know the exact date when those buildings were demolished? After reading that recent post about the Chicago find ,one small change in the topography and your stumped (Tree today gone tomorrow).