boogieman

Is Noah Webster an Indies native?  I’ve been twisting this part of the verse around and still come up with that the Indies native, that the sign speaks of, is the same indies native of hard word in 3 vols.

Boogie,
I keep reading the verse with BP just enjoying using the word “native” twice,
not with the same reference.
I agree with you about Hamilton being the “Indies native”.
Then the next use of “native” goes along with “him of Hard word”
Here is a literary definition of “hard word”
hard word: a term used in early English dictionaries to designate difficult
and unfamiliar words, usually from classical or foreign languages, which had
recently entered (or were thought to have entered) the language.
Using this definition, it would be easy to think of the volumes as dictionaries
or related reference books.
Since Noah Webster is thought of as the creator of the first American dictionary,
I see him as a possible candidate for our “him of Hard word”….Plus, he did much
of his work in New York City.
But is there any park or statue or historical marker in our NY area for Webster?
AP

Boston Tea Party… they dressed up like Native Americans / Indians / Indies native

[edit]
Publication
The Federalist Papers appeared in three New York newspapers: the Independent Journal, the New-York Packet, and the Daily Advertiser, beginning on October 27, 1787. Between them, Hamilton, Madison and Jay kept up a rapid pace, with at times three or four new essays by Publius appearing in the papers in a week. Garry Wills observes that the pace of production “overwhelmed” any possible response: “Who, given ample time could have answered such a battery of arguments? And no time was given.”[10] Hamilton also encouraged the reprinting of the essay in newspapers outside New York state, and indeed they were published in several other states where the ratification debate was taking place. However, they were only irregularly published outside New York, and in other parts of the country they were often overshadowed by local writers.[11]
(
Publius
was Hamilton’s code word for the Federalist Papers)
I dont know if we can consider the three newspapers as volumes.  I think the verse’s use of the words “still speak” would mean that the newspapers would still be around.
But I do think that Hamilton is the key Indies native that we do have to work around.

animal painter

Boogie,
I keep reading the verse with BP just enjoying using the word “native” twice,
not with the same reference.
I agree with you about Hamilton being the “Indies native”.
Then the next use of “native” goes along with “him of Hard word”
AP

You may be right AP.  But the word
although
bothers me.  Why did he use this here?  Maybe the natives of where the sign is located still speak about the Indies native of Hard word.  Maybe they speak of him in 3 vols.
If Hamilton is our guy, then we have three spots to look.  John Paul Jones Park, Battery Park area, and Weehawkin NJ where he was killed in a duel with Aaron Burr.  I like the slender path and the bridge, but that may be just an indication as to what direction to look when standing on top of the grey giant.  That would leave Battery Park and JPJ Park.  I think image12 matches up better with the Battery.
Geez cormac, why would you want to move verse10 to Boston?

Something to research…
“Hard word” is a term used in reference to a dictionary….
Noah Webster was a noted figure in New York (started the
first daily newspaper in NYC) who not only wrote the first
American Dictionary, but also the first American school books. (Three volumes)
http://education.stateuniversity.com/pa … -1843.html
Is there anything pointing to Webster in New York City in our area, other than
Webster Ave. ?…a statue, plaque, park….?
AP

Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Is Noah Webster an Indies native?  I’ve been twisting this part of the verse around and still come up with that the Indies native, that the sign speaks of, is the same indies native of hard word in 3 vols.

fox

hard vols? both are capitalized, do they go together?

I wouldn’t think so. The capitalization in the verses seems kind of arbitrary.  So I wonder if the capital V even means anything.

It would be so easy if the bandstand in Bushnell Park was around in 1982. Sadly, it hasn’t. Going strictly by the musical definition of “rhapsodic,” the first musician with a Hartford connection I can think of is Ray Gilbert, but there are
a whole bunch.
The water theme of picture 12 doesn’t fit well with Hartford, though. There used to be a river running through Bushnell Park, but it was rerouted long before the book was published.

Also in keeping with the water theme, the “isle of B” is problematic for Hartford, unless we’re looking for a traffic island or some other non-obvious implementation.

Really great stuff, Ian! Since “rhapsodic man’s soil” seems to be the final marker, is there some grove or memorial to Liszt, Gershwin, or someone named George or Franz? Less likely, something Bohemian, for the Queen “Bohemian Rhapsody.” “Simple roots” could also be a further musical reference.
Just did some Google research and found that there’s a bust of Liszt at the Morgan Memorial, very close to Bushnell Park. Not sure that that helps though, since I assume the sculpture is indoors.

Hi folks, I found my way here from the Something Awful thread, which is all-but-defunct since the abolition of rules in the General BS forum there has made the place … interesting and inhospitable to that kind of discussion.
Being from southwest CT, the presumed P12/V10/NYC combo has been on my mind, and I want to float an idea by all of you that a cursory search doesn’t show has been discussed. Whether I’m right or wrong (probably wrong,) I’d just like your opinions and feedback. The first paragraph is just backstory about why I started looking for verse matches.
A few weeks ago, I was walking around the capitol building in Hartford CT and noticed a couple of things. First, the birds on the flagpoles looked kind of/sort of like the bird in picture 12. My phone was dead so I couldn’t look anything up, and looking at the few pictures now it doesn’t seem to be such a good match; but the beaks and plumage are similar looking up from ground level. The statues of the women around the dome of the capitol as well as the neoclassical statues on the CT Supreme Court building (
img
) were similar to picture 12. The Supreme Court Building also has that neoclassical design with Beaux-Arts arched windows that we see in the painting. In fact, between the general neoclassical, neoclassical Romanesque revival, and neoclassical Beaux-Arts architecture, visual similarities were everywhere around me. It was later pointed out to me that the Colt Armory ([]
img
[/u]) has a nice blue onion dome on top of it.
I walked down into Bushnell Park and whether you look at the capitol building or the Travelers Tower you are In the shadow of the grey giant. I walked a couple of laps around the Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Arch, which is over a slender path (a small one-way road in the middle of downtown) and what do you know? on one side of the bas relief on the frieze directly above the center of the arch was a man on horseback with an arm extended (
img
) and on the other side was a woman with both arm extended (
img
.)
So there I was In the shadow of the grey giant, having found the arm(s) that extend over the slender path. It was not summer, therefore I did not hear a whirring sound since the carousel only a few feet away from the arch only operates from mid-May to mid-October and it was late October. Cars did abound, as I was alongside a busy road downtown.
No signs nearby spoke of Indies native, but maybe a few hundred feet away is Corning Fountain (
img
), a tribute to the Indians (nowhere in The Secret did Preiss seem concerned with using politically correct terms!) native to the area.
The natives still speak of him of hard words in 3 vols. Noah Webster is native to the city, having been born and raised in West Hartford, and had released two volumes of his dictionary when he died, plus a posthumous publication of the appendix that he was working on at the time of his death.
I’m sort of at a dead end about where to go from here. I’d appreciate any feedback you may have.

AP, i’ve been trying to find something that people called “grey giant”, just yesterday i found where the george washington bridge was made famous by the book ” “The Great Gray Bridge”, ………..which is close (I think) to “The Little Red Lighthouse”.
couple of weeks back I found where the New York Times building was called “The Grey Lady”.
and i’ve been looking at architects named “gray, grey”……..
i like the statue of liberty, because that’s what the image looks like……but the shadow could be anywhere, ‘cept the “slender path” has to be the “narrows” ( i think
)
but then i read stuff like:
“Manhattan  is a Native American word that has been variously translated as meaning “good place to collect bow wood”, “place of general inebriation”, and “people of the whirlpool”, among others.”
and in the image it looks like a whirlpool…..
i’m trying to stay open to anything, even the niagara falls area ck, especially around toronto with the cn tower.

Any of these places could be it if there was a sign nearby that speaks of Indies native.

The National Museum of the American Indian, George Gustav Heye Center, is located at One Bowling Green adjacent to the northeast corner of Battery Park, New York, New York
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … n%26sa%3DN

We looked at this before.  What I like is that Henry
Wadsworth
Longfellow may be our rhapsodic man. But the verse doesnt make sense if the Verrazano is the grey giant.  What happens to the slender path?  Is the ARM part of the grey giant?  The bridge has three sections but they all cross over the Narrows.  If the bridge is the grey giant, we would have to find another slender path which an arm extends over.  That has been my problem with it, or maybe I mean mental block…
I don’t know.
I also like the fact that you can see the Statue of Liberty and the WTC from Statin Island yet they are obscured from view at John Paul jones Park in Brooklyn.

Kato

For all of you non-New Yorkers, PATH is an acronym for Port Authority Trans Hudson.

Which is where I have been working for the past 22 years…….

Nice!  I’ve been there cormac.  But I was looking at verse5 at the time.  This is why the Battery is high on the list.  Anyone like the church in Jersey City?  There is also a Hamilton Park close by in the downtown Historic Paulus Hook District of Jersey City.  Another Slappy find…. I think.

premiernc

Hey Guys, is anyone actually in New York that can test a theory?

I’m in NYC and may be able to contribute some boots on the ground sleuthing including ground probing but may not want to dig up a park..

boogieman, i’m not sure if it was me or not, but i have  been looking again in jersey city, but ….it’s with the italian casque which would be image 11
because…the italian folletti  on the shores of new jersey…….
i’ll probably come back to everyone’s way of thinking eventually, but right now i’m going to kind of follow up this way….
that’s why i deleted that last post about battery park…….i like battery park but because of a different verse, the one that went “in the middle of 21″…..because battery park is 21 acres, and that same verse has “where jewels abound, and there is the whole jewelry district there in new york…..plus that building with the shape i liked, like the shape in  image 9 is close to battery park (13-15 south william street)
yep, i’m going way out there again, mixing them all up in my head
but remember that solved one that seemed like it had to be washington, dc…..wasn’t
so i’m thinking the obscure quotes are or could be screwing with us.
so i’m trying image 9 going with new york, because of the dutch and the canarsie tribe in the book, but to me….the dutch and new york seem to go together
don’t hate me, i know you think i go way out in left field sometimes, but i’m not gonna give up, and if this doesn’t work, i’ll go back to the other way of thinking,ok?

I LOVE grolsch!
wilhouse

The Grolsh with the corked bottles!  Yum.
Back to the hunt.  I would go out and take some pics but first… I love that people like this verse for NYC, but how do you get NY without the image?  The slender path is what got me going.  If its not that, then the verse could just as well be niagara falls.  I like the Broadway Isle thing.  Just the most southern part.  No way is image12 the GWB.  The arch to the VNB is the same shape as the image.  The GWB is a little different, not “as” arched.  You guys gotta convince me before I go out there.  Hour and a half away.

Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
I am inclined to agree with previous  “searchers” that the
sign
of the Indies native
refers to the sign of either the Alexander Hamilton expressway or Hamilton Fort,
both in the vicinity of the New York City area near the “Narrows”…bridge.
The repetition of the word “native’ in the next line, may be trying to confuse us.
I have recently been trying to determine who these “natives” are and who “him-of-Hard-word” is.
Native New Yorkers (not necessarily Native American Indians)  would be proud to acknowledge
that Norman
Rock
well was a native New Yorker…born in NYC.  (
Rock
…meaning…
Hard
…
)
B. Preiss was also a native New Yorker…born in NYC…and he would have known of Norman Rockwell’s connection.
It just so happens that a 3-volume set of books entitled…
Norman Rockwell & the Saturday Evening Post
was published in the 1970s…the final volumes published in 1979…at about the time B. Preiss was putting
together his “Secret” manuscript.  Being in the publishing business, Mr. Preiss would have been aware of this.
I put it to you that the “natives’ refer to people born in NYC  and him-of-Hard-word is Norman
Rock
well.

Boy the board has been dead…
in an effort to stir something up…
How about this. Verse 10 – Charleston SC.
in the shadow
Of the grey giant
The grey giant being the Citadel Military school
So in the shadow of the grey giant would be the park next to it, Hampton Park.
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
No idea, a statue on campus maybe?
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cicadas!!!
Cars abound
Mary Murray drive encircles Hampton park
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
the South Carolina Inter-State and West Indian Exposition was held on this site in 1902 and there are still signs, buildings and structures standing.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Teddy Roosevelt attended the west indian exposition in 1903 and there are monuments there about this.
his bio was supposed to run to three volumes but is unfinished.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
8 steps
the clock in the image2 shows 4:00
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Where two paths connect?
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
? Gershwin wrote porgy & bess which was set in Charleston…
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
In the center of the park is a lake that has an island,
this island was the original location of the bandstand at the exposition.
hence its name , bandstand island.
So without being on site I cant get more accurate. It would be great if someone could go check this out to see if it pans out…
but my location would resolve to somewhere in the southwest corner of Hampton Park next to the citadel near mary Mary Murray Blvd.

This verse may be connected to Vancouver (and image 12).  “him of Hard word” may refer to the President Harding’s Visit memorial in Stanley Park in Vancouver (see my post in the image 12 thread).
Stanley Park has a path/road that appears to wind around near the Lion’s Gate Bridge in West Vancouver.
www.trailcanada.com/photos/photos-bc-17-08.asp
The bridge appears to loom over the trail, as the verse says:
In the shadow / Of the grey giant / Find the arm that / Extends over the slender path . . .
Also, off West Vancouver is Bowen Island, hence “the isle of B.”

I do like the Edward Durell Stone connection to
him of Hard word
,
because of his architectural influence in New York City….and New Yorkers
writing about him in various volumes of architectural literature.
But if you want to zero in on Brooklyn, you could also say that the
history of the Ft. Hamilton area does have several references to
Stone
wall Jackson…with at least two streets named after him there..
Stonewall Jackson Dr. and Jackson Ct.  There are books written about
him , serving at Ft. Hamilton.

How about this for a spot: Monastery Square, a park in Brooklyn one block from the Narrows. Evidently there is a view north (to the isle of B?) from the ridge here.
A quote from the Visitation Monastery’s website: “Consequently, a new site was sought and found in an uncultivated section of Brooklyn, called Bay Ridge. The new property consisted of about seven acres of land and two buildings. The Sisters admired the location, with its excellent landscaped gardens and fine trees, all of which were enhanced by
a magnificent view of the Narrows, Upper New York Bay, Staten Island, and the New Jersey coast
.”
If only that view weren’t blocked by the 20-foot-tall wall surrounding virtually the entire grounds…

We came up with
Fort Hamilton
in Brooklyn named for
Alexander Hamilton
, an
Indies native
.  We also found that he had published works in
3 volumes
called the
Federalists Papers
.  Why the
natives still speak of him
was never really figured out. In and throughout, the phrase
hard word
appears many times, and I don’t know why, but all the
hard word
phrases were italicized.  Fort Hamilton is located at the foot of the Verrazano Bridge, opposite of John Paul jones Park.

Italics
&
Underlining
Italics and underlining are like flashers on road signs. They make you take notice. Italics and underlining can be used interchangeably, although usually underlining is used when something is either hand written or typed; if using a computer you can italicize. If you start using italics, don’t switch to underlining within the same document.
Italics or underlining are used most often: for titles of longer works: books, magazines, newspapers, films, TV shows, a complete symphony, plays, long poems, albums:
Albert Borgmann’s book, Crossing the Postmodern Divide
the TV show Frasier
the film It Happened One Night
the magazine Adirondack Life
the newspaper The Miami Herald
Longfellow’s poem Evangeline
the Beatles album Abbey Road
Italics or underlining are also used for titles of paintings, sculptures, ships, trains, aircraft, and spacecraft:
Van Gogh’s painting Starry Night
Daniel Chester French’s sculpture The Spirit of Life
U.S.S. Saratoga
Orient Express
Air Force One
Apollo 13
Microsoft Word
Tip: Shorter works, such a book chapters, articles, sections of newspapers, short stories, poems, songs, and TV episodes are placed in quotation marks.
Neither italics nor quotation marks are used with titles of major religious texts, books of the Bible, or classic legal documents:
the Bible
Pentateuch
the Torah
Magna Carta
the Koran
the Declaration of Independence
Use italics or underlining when using words from another language:
Yggdrasil
avatar
Yahweh
sabra
jyotish
bon vivant
Tip: Many foreign words have become absorbed into our language and should not be italized or underlined. When in doubt, consult the dictionary. Also, common Latin abbreviations should not be italicized or underlined:
etc.
i.e.
p.s.
viz.
Use italics or underlining to emphasize, stress, or clarify a word or letter in a sentence or when using a word as a linguistic symbol rather than for its meaning:
It was the first time I felt appreciated by my children.
I asked you to articulate your findings, not create a flow chart.
He claimed his data to be accurate, but accurate is a word he often interprets loosely.
My daughter’s report card showed five B’s, two B+’s and one glorious A.
Exercise 5: Italics & Underlining

so you are saying isle of B is possibly a misdirection of two levels.
1 B is abbreviated, so we are not sure which B he means.
2 Aisle is purposely misspelled Isle to doubly throw us off.
This is possible, Did BP do this in any of the other Verses?

maltedfalcon

so you are saying isle of B is possibly a misdirection of two levels.
1 B is abbreviated, so we are not sure which B he means.
2 Aisle is purposely misspelled Isle to doubly throw us off.
This is possible, Did BP do this in any of the other Verses?

Correct.  Obviously there is that variant in the Chicago find, but I only suspect he uses homophonic methods…sorry I have no proven examples to offer.

forest! ya gotta give me hope!  how do you feel about the bridge theory, or  george washington something or other for the line about “twice….” ?
i’m glad you liked Tune, Norway
not giving all that up yet either, just get distracted to other areas
what about gowanus expressway for “the natives still speak” ?
we know he did word play with the road names
and i’m not sure, think i’ll keep checking up on the 6th streets……

Slappy,
You are indefatigable!
(That’s said as a compliment…
)
Looking at Stonewall Jackson for
him of Hard word
that natives still speak of in 3 volumes…
I found that “Lee’s Lieutenants: A Study in Command”
by Douglas Southall Freeman,  is a 3-volume set that was
written originally in 1940 and republished several times…once in 1972.
Charles Scribner’s Sons of
New York City
, is the publisher.
It is all about the soldiers who served under Robert E. Lee…
Stonewall Jackson being one of them who served at Ft. Hamilton
with Lee.
With Jackson Ct. near JPJ park, and Stonewall Jackson Dr. just
on the other side of the Verrazano Bridge, it seemed to be a
street-name-clue for the location.
I am trying to pin down each line of verse 10…like you are…
Let’s keep at it!
AP

slaps, the day I hand you free, no-strings-attached hope will be when I see you in person holding a mud-encrusted casque in your grubby paws.
Unless I say I like a theory, you can bet I regard it with a high degree of skepticism. But maybe I don’t get the gowanus connection — explain? I, too, appreciate your indefatigability. Also, your perspicacity.

thank you guys
we have to get lucky sooner or later!
not sure how perspicacious i am (had to look it up) but i guess it does seem i get like a dog with a bone, just won’t let it go….lol
forest, i was thinking the line:  “The natives still speak” — might be Gowanus Expressway
natives= Gowanus
“The area really doesn’t have a name, so I usually call it what it was called in the past: Gowanus, after an Indian tribe or chief. “
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SLICES/gowanus/gowanus.html
still speak
(express yourself, to talk)=
Express
way
it’s right there by the verrazano bridge
with the line before that being : speaks of Indies native = Hamilton Park, fort hamilton, or fort hamilton parkway(another road)
i’m not stuck on anything yet, waiting for more perspicacious  (
) minds than mine to let me know if it made sense (because of my tendency to zooooooom out there)
i don’t see me being a real hunter, i can’t be sneaky and i always get caught, so i just hope to help and would love it if i did come up with the one thing that made every one say….!that’s it!!…………..like johann did for the cleveland one.
i would love to help boogieman find this one in new york!
can’t stop, lol
found another clock:
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … illie.html

Oh! Now I get it. Yeah, now I
really
like the Gowanus theory — that’s clever. If only BP had thought of it

slappybuns

could mention that 5th avenue could be the V, but i think it would be behind the rock, and i’m hoping it’s right there on one side of the v drive…..
are you listening boogieman?

did you say something Slappy?
just kidding.  trying to catch up.
Lots to read and digest here.

Hi Boogie,
When you’ll be there, don’t forget to check my theories (under the last (22-23) V shape of the Verrazano’s Bridge, sadly I lost all my pics)…
(I think you new spot is inside a closed parking area)

And image 4, Greek, Italian.

Spiritr

The Japanese book hint was “Chicken Colombo”

Ah, yes, Chicken Colombo. Makes perfect sense.

Spiritr

by having the actual books in hand… and I can read and speak Japanese…and I paired it with the image which has a famous Italian artist theme…not really sure how to answer you
there’s only one Christophervs Colvmbvs in the middle of a parking lot in North America, located on top of the hill near Little Italy.

Hmmmmmmmmm……….I’m really trying to consider what you are stating but I have to disagree. If this is the NYC verse, then you must consider the natives of NYC which are not Italian, nor are they from another continent.

GoldenMartyr

WR – I can’t overlook that possibility.
For a while, I believed that
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
should read
The natives still speak of
Him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Then I looked back and noticed BP started 10 verse lines with the word “of”. I believe he actually used of as a linking word to help with the ambiguity of the lines.
….but back to Nearby. There are only 3 single word lines in the verses. Lane, the first word in verse 9….Hush, the last word in verse 12….and Nearby which falls near the middle of verse 10. Two have hints in the Japanese version of the book and neither have a great interpretation. I have less of an issue with these two since they fall at the beginning and end. Nearby just feels out of place and screams, look at me all by my lonesome. Unless it is a structural thing as WR points out. Which then begs the question, is structure important to this verse?

Just throwing this out there (and not sure I believe this, but who knows?): what if there was a sign that actually said “nearby” as its heading? As in “nearby attractions” or something?

Spiritr

by having the actual books in hand… and I can read and speak Japanese…and I paired it with the image which has a famous Italian artist theme…not really sure how to answer you
there’s only one Christophervs Colvmbvs in the middle of a parking lot in North America, located on top of the hill near Little Italy.

Honestly, I was giving this a chance, but it seems like a random cherry picked connection. If you look at the Methodology document I put together, the artistic influence for Image 12 is Columbia, so it might make sense to have a Columbus connection, but it also has to fit a location and flow with the rest of the puzzle.
Also, while I believe the Japanese edition has given us some insight, for 36 years it was not “available” to North American hunters. I do not believe that we should be using it as the primary source for solving these.

like a freeway sign showing 1/4 mile to destination.

I believe he is trying to connect v10 to San Francisco.

Choice

like a freeway sign showing 1/4 mile to destination.

No – that could be any street sign in the vicinity. I was referring to the actual word “nearby”, as if it was a heading and there were streets or places listed under it.

Karleen- I’ve considered this as well. It’s one of those things that could disappear without a trace.

GoldenMartyr

Karleen- I’ve considered this as well. It’s one of those things that could disappear without a trace.

It seems to me that BP chose many things with more permanency, except for trees.

Spiritr

*its 7 letters

Are you sure it’s spelled correctly? Can I buy a vowel?

gManTexas

It seems to me that BP chose many things with more permanency, except for trees.

I have considered a lot of things, right or wrong. I personally don’t believe that is the reasoning behind nearby but yes, I’ve considered it.

karleen

Hmmmmmmmmm……….I’m really trying to consider what you are stating but I have to disagree. If this is the NYC verse, then you must consider the natives of NYC which are not Italian, nor are they from another continent.

gManTexas

Honestly, I was giving this a chance, but it seems like a random cherry picked connection. If you look at the Methodology document I put together, the artistic influence for Image 12 is Columbia, so it might make sense to have a Columbus connection, but it also has to fit a location and flow with the rest of the puzzle.

GoldenMartyr

I believe he is trying to connect v10 to San Francisco.

ummm, that is because this Verse has nothing to do with NY primarily. And I’m 100% positive that it means people from another continent.
the theme of the image I paired with was inspired by a painting of a Italian artist.
you are correct, I am.

GoldenMartyr

I believe he is trying to connect v10 to San Francisco.

the theme of the image I paired with was inspired by a painting of a Italian artist.
you are correct, I am.
Yooooo spiritr…why the Italian connection w SF? Not BOS? the hub of the universe

A parking lot
Although the street / tourist sign
Nearby this district
Written in Italian “Corso Cristòforo Colombo”
The Italian natives still speak / wrote
His name in Genoese as “Christopher
v
s Col
v
mb
v
s”
The Japanese book hint was “Chicken Colombo”

Genoese? Isn’t that Roman or Latin?

It saids from the people of Genoa…
But yes, it should be Roman or Latin Italiano when it’s written but I used the word as a language dialect

strike13

Yooooo spiritr…why the Italian connection w SF? Not BOS? the hub of the universe

because there are more than one group of immigrants, and together they match. Using Image 5 Verse 12 as example, the Verse were all about Germans (
including A.Lincoln
), that goes with Image 5 of Irish/Scotland.

Spiritr

It saids from the people of Genoa…
But yes, it should be Roman or Latin Italiano when it’s written but I used the word as a language dialect

In Latin studies there are categories are hard letters and soft letters. C for example if it’s a hard C it will pronounce like K, i.e Chi-rho, if it’s soft c then sounds like see.
So Colvmbvs and Chris both are hard C in Latin.

Spiritr

A parking lot
Although the street / tourist sign
Nearby this district
Written in Italian “Corso Cristòforo Colombo”
The Italian natives still speak / wrote
His name in Genoese as “Christopher
v
s Col
v
mb
v
s”
The Japanese book hint was “Chicken Colombo”

Okay, I’ll bite. How do you get all this from the clues and the Japanese edition? And where is the location?

gManTexas

How do you get all this from the clues and the Japanese edition?

Unknown

Unknown:
And where is the location?

by having the actual books in hand… and I can read and speak Japanese…and I paired it with the image which has a famous Italian artist theme…not really sure how to answer you
there’s only one Christophervs Colvmbvs in the middle of a parking lot in North America, located on top of the hill near Little Italy.

There was a time I thought this verse may be referring to Columbus as well…..but I thought the three vols might be referring to the 3 ships he sailed to the new world with.

i don’t see why BP wouldn’t have used robert moses for Moses
him of
hard word
in 3 vols.———–well, not sure if after he broke the 1st two
stone
tablets, did he just make one more tablet?
’cause i’m sure new yorkers still speak of robert moses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses

I haven’t been able to find anything to tie in Leif Ericson.
But John Paul Jones park is right near the Verrazano (grey giant, V), and the Gowanus (Indies Native) Parkway is also near there.
John Paul Jones Park is named after a Navy hero, but interestingly enough John Paul Jones is also the stage name of one of Led Zeppelin’s composer’s and musicians. (Rhapsodic Man’s Soil).
From what I remember about John Paul Jones’ park, it is a small park with a pathway by the water. (slender path)
As i read on here, the whirring sound could be fishing reels or bikes on the pathway. Cars abound being the major motor ways in the area.
“Him of Hard word in 3 Vols.” is still confusing me though. Something about Vols. makes me think it isn’t neccesarily meaning volumes. Why abbreviate it?
I dunno. I’m gonna research this some more.

I didn’t bring up anything to do with NYC— you did.  I was just responding with a general comment.  Well what was it before it was a landfill?  According to one source, it was mostly swamp and marsh, which the east coast used to have a lot of near its beaches.  Heck, Jesse Pomeroy, a 14-year-old murderer got one of his victims in a swamp that isn’t even on boston’s coastline anymore.  They get drained and built on, then when stuff falls down, they build on top of it. Or they used to.

Did I say something confusing?  I read a book published in the 1920’s called “Gangs of New York,” which mostly dealt with the five points and hudson river area, but which started with a great deal of info about
where
N.Y.C. was founded, as well as the criminals which made it what it is today.  Or were you talking about a different city?

Not that anyone needs to be reminded of this, but New York was built on top of itself many many times because parts of the original were built on swamps.  It is a city rich with history that leads in many directions.

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti

Did I say something confusing?  I read a book published in the 1920’s called “Gangs of New York,” which mostly dealt with the five points and hudson river area, but which started with a great deal of info about
where
N.Y.C. was founded, as well as the criminals which made it what it is today.  Or were you talking about a different city?

I was only curious as to why you had brought it up now, even though it is a valid point.  I’m not suggesting to go back and look at past posts, but almost all of Manhattan’s coastline, as well as Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx. Liberty Island, Ellis Island..have been built up from landfill dug out from digging the massive tunnels for rail and road purposes.  The spot where Peter Minuit bought NY from the Indians had waves crashing onto it back then.  Now it is a few hundred yards from the water.  Foundations for the Belt Parkway and Shore Rd that run under the Verrazano were constructed from landfill.  I guess the
original
NY wasn’t that big after all.

From Catherwoods Post at Image2;
I wonder if a good decoding of Verse 10 could still apply to a different image.  I still think of the images as merely a general locator clue, pointing to a city.  (Any use of longitude and latitude from the images is NOT a GPS pinpoint location, but more like pointing your finger at a spot on a globe.)  I’m confident that the location of the gem in each painting was selected for artistic balance and not as a signpost to a particular dig site.  Could a verse alone be enough to deduce a city AND lead to a dig site?  That seems more likely.  (It’s what I did with the verse for Houston, using the train number alone to search for the city.)
I am willing to move this discussion over to the Verse 10 thread, rather than debate the use of Image 2 for shecrab’s ideas
.
I like your ideas on the verses.  I believe Egbert’s dig site was first located by the verse and the images at the gardens sealed it for him.
Don’t mean to speak for you Eg, just my opinion.  That is why I would like to see Shecrab’s decoding and compare it to
slender path
and
the Narrows
and
the grey giant
in NY.  I mean, geez… can a verse really fit in two locations? Maybe it can!

… and I STILL like my pg.90 image for the arm that extends over the slender path idea… the shadow of the grey giant being nyc itself casting it’s shadow over n.j.

Three volume novels were quite a popular format in British history:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-volume_novel
Two publishers specialized in them. Looking now for any connections

That’s not the only one, just the one I had experience with. Just look at the blocks of stones around it’s head and neck. Packed full of artifacts. Hence not reliable.

Choice

Karleen, these are very low resolution scans. You can tell by pixelation and the size of the file. Your image12 is 176KB where BS’s image12 is 1900KB.
I was criticised in the past for posting findings that were not there when I was using unreliable image scan. A valuable suggestion was to use multiple HI-RES. scans to verify my findings. That’s why I asked if you were comparing your findings using multiple hi-res. scans.
Focusing on the clock face I clearly see an outline of a large Y in your video. However I can not see it in the available hi-res. scan no matter how much I like it to be there.
As the case may be that your extensive training as a pointillist artist may give you this advantage of detecting minut patterns or strokes not detectable to untrained masses.

i have used the same scans using my computer and my phone and got different images. so i believe in using old school methods is the way to go.

Going old school is definitely the best option only if you have the original book and a magnifying glass. The quality of the images in the reprint, the books with white background cover are the worst and not usable.

I agree with most of what Choice and Harley are saying–however–it is plausible that one can see a ‘face’ here or there. Even a face that looks like a ‘certain person’. There is no way I’m going to see the exact likeness of many specific people unless they are there. Even if my findings are 50% correct. That’s a lotta shit.
Carry on. Find something. Someone–anyone. Find something.

Choice

Karleen, these are very low resolution scans. You can tell by pixelation and the size of the file. Your image12 is 176KB where BS’s image12 is 1900KB.

Hi Choice, did you download the entire 14 page PDF of Karleen’s or just the single previews from the site? I’ve just downloaded that PDF file and its actually not too bad. I performed a side-by-side of the various jpgs and scans I have against the PDF and its quite sharp in regards to the lines (such as the Gh in image1). It does contain some moire (the wavy pattern going down the image) and pixelation but overall its quite usable and a good source for performing multiple image comparing.
Thanks for sharing that Karleen.
Heres is a screenshot of my side-by-side showing what I’m seeing:
https://imgur.com/VKZOwCd

bbi

Heres is a screenshot of my side-by-side showing what I’m seeing:
https://imgur.com/VKZOwCd

Focus on the dragon’s nose. Previously I noted a pimple on the dragon’s nose but it was rejected as scan artifact.

Choice

Focus on the dragon’s nose. Previously I noted a pimple on the dragon’s nose but it was rejected as scan artifact.

Yes, I see the pimple you’re talking about on the PDF image. I’d have to say after comparing with other sources that its either an artifact or just that the original source had some bleed issue. Sorry for being off topic by the way guys.

The verse says:
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
The clock in the image-12 is set at 11:00.
I suppose that means we will be taking
approximately 22 steps toward the East
from the middle of the v.
The “v” is probably the sidewalk which forks.
We will walk 22 steps East ,to the treasure location
from the half-way mark of one side of the walkway.
It might make sense that the walkway would run
North-South if we had to take East steps to get
to the dig site…assuming the dig site is off the
walkway far enough to be out of public view.
The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge (grey giant) casts it
shadow from the Northeast to the Northwest.
So we should maybe look at the park areas
starting closest to the bridge foundations and
work our way North.
Fort Wadsworth and Arthur Von Briesen Park on the West end and
Fort Hamilton Park and Shore Rd Park on the East end.
Either side could be considered due South of Bedloe’s Island.

Here’s an overview of the area, with the bridge and the island.
Here’s Narrows Road.
I looked at
Wagner College
(top left) because their athletics team is the
Sea Hawks
.
This logo is on their sports pitch.
In the pic, the topaz is below the hawk.
On the map, what’s below the hawk is…The Staten Island Horrible Haunted Monastery.
(Note Emerson Drive just over the road, probably named after Ralph’s brother.)
This is an abandoned Augustine monastery – legend has it that one of the monks went off his head and murdered them all. (Complete nonsense of course. But it looks like a cool place to search for buried treasure…)
http://www.lostdestinations.com/mnastry1.htm

There is a Narrows Ave. on the east side of the Narrows, too. It terminates at Owls Head Park, another likely place to look.
Got a free weekend coming up, boogie?? I think we have enough ideas for you to explore now.

Just found this photo of Shore Rd Park…facing the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge.
Those are real “steps” that form the walkway.
They start halfway along the branch of the v.
Are there 22 or more of them, leading to “simple roots”?
A tree branch (arm?) over the narrow sidewalk…?
The robe-folds on the shoulder of the female figure
resemble a tree.
I will keep looking for more visual confirmers.

Here’s a history of Owls Head Park:
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/OwlsHe … lights/151
Created from land donated by Eliphalet Bliss. Another
rhapsodic
gentleman.
Was apparently associated with the
Canarsie
Indians. BP did seem to like his indigenous tribespeople.
So…Narrows Ave connects Shore Rd Park and Owl’s Head Park…
(PS Did you notice the bridge was dumped on top of Fort Lafayette? There’s no getting away from that bloke. And you noticed Gershwin’s parents were Russian?)

Just throwing this out there…  could a cannon be the “arm that | Extends over the slender path”?

Does one find the arm while standing in the shadow of the grey giant?  Or, is the arm in the shadow of the grey giant?

I think by “hour” he means the hour corresponding to the P with which this V is paired.

Jambone

Just throwing this out there…  could a cannon be the “arm that | Extends over the slender path”?

johann

Does one find the arm while standing in the shadow of the grey giant?  Or, is the arm in the shadow of the grey giant?

forest_blight

I think by “hour” he means the hour corresponding to the P with which this V is paired.

There is a cannon in John Paul Jones park, but does it extend over anything?  Is the fired cannon ball the extension?
I suppose you will find the arm in the shadow when you find the grey giant.  The line
From the middle of one branch of the v
, I have always thought that the v stood for Verrazano.  But what branch?
OK, I was thinking that at a certain hour in summer time, there would be a shadow cast over the arm.  Let’s simplify and go with the P and V theory.
So there must be a clock in the pic. That kind of Narrows it down huh? (Couldn’t resist)  Images 1,2,3,7,11, and 12 have definite hours shown in clocks.  I think we have no choice but to go with #12 on this one.  22 east steps, or 22 steps east?  Is there a play on words there?  I think either way, it means go east 22 steps.  Do we go 22 steps east from the Fort Hamilton sign, or from the
arm
that extends?  Gotta find the sign.  From that, we may find the arm in the shadow, and then determine where to step.  If we follow the verse line by line though, we should find the arm first, then the sign and walk off from there.

boogs

So there must be a clock in the pic. That kind of Narrows it down huh? (Couldn’t resist)  Images 1,2,3,7,11, and 12 have definite hours shown in clocks.  I think we have no choice but to go with #12 on this one.  22 east steps, or 22 steps east?  Is there a play on words there?  I think either way, it means go east 22 steps.  Do we go 22 steps east from the Fort Hamilton sign, or from the arm that extends?

Each the Ps could be said to be associated with “hours” or “months,” 1 through 12. If this V is paired with P12, then yes, we’re talking about 22 steps east.

I have a few ideas that I’m trying to get ready for posting, but first I’d like to remind Fox of the line “Although the sign nearby” probably means that the Fort is close to the casque.  No way can you walk in there with a shovel.
Check the view from the sky and let the eyes do the work.
http://local.live.com/
edit: Like the eagle trohn!

In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
Is the Verrazano the
grey giant
or is it the
arm
that extends over the
slender path
?  If the slender path is the Narrows Inlet, then the Verrazano is the
arm
and we have to find a new
grey giant
.  Can the WTC, which was easily seen from the bridge pre 9/11, be the
grey giant
?  I don’t want to involve image12 here yet and to just concentrate on the verse but to consider this we must consider that!
If the
grey giant
is the bridge, what is the
slender path
?  The bike path?  Can the
slender path
still be the Narrows and the boat ramp or jetty (I can’t tell what that is yet) be the
arm
that extends over it? (this is what is just south east of the bridge)
Jet skis and small boats,
whirring sound in summer
?  The highway and off-ramp from the bridge are right there.
Cars abound
?
We think we know the Indies native, the sign, and the 3 vols, but what about
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
?
I believe the bridge runs more north and south so east would be towards Fort Hamilton/Coney Island direction, or simply out to sea.
I’m thinking that the
hour
was maybe mentioned in the volumes along with
hard word
.
Geez, this is tough!
Don’t worry Fox, even if by some crazy miracle this is solved before summer, I wouldn’t dig it up without the ones who could make it out here.  I gotta read some more.  Any ideas?

i found a clock tower see map its at dyker, near ft ham pk/jpj pk
havent found a better img though, for the VI that ap is talking about
clock tower
Poly Preparatory Country Day School
9216 Seventh Avenue
Brooklyn, New York 11228-3698
map
http://tinyurl.com/46sex2a
pic of clock
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … .tower.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polyclock.jpg
info bottom of pg, it says, can be seen from far and wide in Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/NEIGHBORHOO … /bath.html

wouldn’t ellis island fit the scheme?
with immigration and it was once called “the island of tears”
and that looks like teardrops in the image
http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/el … istory.asp
k, never mind, i’m back on alexander hamilton custom house and battery park

cw0909

i found a clock tower see map its at dyker

(That’s right by the Victory Memorial Hospital.)

what if the 4 “teardrops”  are for the 4 continents on the alexander hamilton custom house……and the europe one has an eagle and a bull (which would explain the buffalo i see in image 12)
http://www.oldnycustomhouse.gov/history … hester.asp
http://www.europesname.eu/16_Your_Comme … d_half.htm
hamilton is involved somehow somewhere, lol
castle garden, the first immigration center

Boogieman,
I like both JPJ park and Shore Rd Park.
Looking at JPJ…
(I know you have done some searching there already.)
Positive points:
1. It is in the literal shadow of the grey giant
2. There is a yard
arm
over the path
3. There are several “v’s” formed by paths.
4. You can look north toward the isle of B from there.
5. You can hear whirring, and cars abound (on the bridge).
Find the path which points most
East
Take 22 steps…or more…
(This may be 22 steps
from
the middle of the “v”
or it may be 22 steps
to
the middle of the “v”
Look down…”Simple roots” may mean just grass.
There are several very good-sized trees in this area of JPJ.
It may be that you could recognize the one which seems
to be drawn in the shoulder-folds of the figure in image 12.
At least that would narrow down the search area.
This may all be a repeat of earlier posts…but I wanted to
write it down in a current post.
AP
JPJ Park aerial
JPJ Park from 101st St.
tree-folds

looking for the tree in the robe, maybe an arm of the tree is the
arm we are looking for, in the links click pics,opens new window big
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=38784
a tree
http://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=64455
yardarm and a tree far right
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=19277
bigger
http://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=64455
more trees
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?MarkerID=13202
The Church of the Generals
St. John’s Episcopal Church
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=13271
big
http://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=42288
list of markers in brooklyn
http://www.hmdb.org/results.asp?Town=Br … New%20York
another pic of clock
http://www.michaelminn.net/newyork/infr … -28-51.jpg
dover patrol
http://www.michaelminn.net/newyork/infr … -50-33.jpg
pics of V bridge, and surrounding areas click pic=big
http://www.michaelminn.net/newyork/infr … ws_bridge/
video of pk,and bike tours of the area, i didnt look see those
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSxPXBAylPI

animal painter

I think BP used some visual markers of Manhattan
for the sake of narrowing down the possibilities
of locations from around the entire country.
(The same way he used silhouettes of recognizable
city buildings in Milwaukee…City Hall.)
Milwaukee’s City Hall is not visible from the Lake Front,
but it is a visual location clue.
The same with NYC visual clues in image 12.
They may not be visible from the exact treasure location,
but they do narrow down the search.
Some of these clues would be the WTC, the Russian Orthodox
church silhouette, the bird (looking like the Chrysler building “gargoyle”)
the similar pose of Alice in Wonderland at Central Park to the pose of
Image 12’s figure…even the resemblance of the Mad Hatter’s face
to the face on the figure’s robe. They point to Manhattan.
Once BP gets us to NYC, he then directs us with the clues in the verse.
AP

I still think our major confirmer image is this:

verrazano in battery park
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batter … ghts/12324
emma lazarus
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batter … uments/891
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batterypark/highlights
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/348 … otostream/
3 story
samuel morse might have something to do with “vols.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29
a
V
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/348 … otostream/
“the powerful chevrons”  over the entrance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/348 … otostream/
almost 1st day of summer
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/348 … otostream/
3 city blocks

I don’t like that mysterious instruction, “twice as many east steps as the hour or more”. That’s extremely vague unless the casque is buried next to something. I tend to think that you must either be walking towards something recognisable, or there’s some cryptic meaning for it. (One random thought was “amour” – Bedloe’s used to be Love Island.)

Happy New Year and Welcome Back!  Just realize one thing Adoks, it isn’t that nobody is listening, it’s just that nobody is listenening.  Keep plugging until someone hears you.  Anything you type will be read over and over even when no one hears you.  But someone
will
, sooner or later.
Ok, back to the verse.  Can someone come up with some solid reasoning for my wanting to make WEST STEPS for what is written;
Take twice as many EAST steps as the hour
.
Easterly winds
go out to the west right?  Here’s why I need to go west.  My friend Kathy from the Brooklyn weddings, she tells me that the entrance to FT Hamilton is under the Verrazano just where the road splits (or branches).  Can not see it from the birds eye view link.  From what she tells me, there are no other signs, except for the Ft Hamilton Parkway, nearby.  There is a guards gate at the entrance, so to go east, is to go east 22 steps into the complex, where there’s NO DIGGING!  If you go west 22 steps, you get real close to John Paul Jones Park.
Just hoping that the way BP worded that line, with
east steps
instead of
steps east
, I could kind of twist it so it fits into my little twisted mind!!!!!

afraid I cant explain why BP would say East and mean West.  I do like the location tho….  here are some nice pix of the area.
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm … /index.htm

also found this webpage which may come in handy since this V is possibly linked w/ NY.
http://gis.nyc.gov/parks/lc/NavigateTo. … NEW_SEARCH
you can enter in any park name and it will map it for you….just the basic map, nothing google earth like, but it gives surrounding street names (which seem to have been included in some of the puzzles) as well as the location of any memorials, statues, etc…

fox

also found this webpage which may come in handy since this V is possibly linked w/ NY.
you can enter in any park name and it will map it for you….just the basic map, nothing google earth like, but it gives surrounding street names (which seem to have been included in some of the puzzles) as well as the location of any memorials, statues, etc…

Really great pics.  I will see you there this summer Fox!  Did you know that this park used to be called Cannon Ball Park?
I’ll say this, I’d hate to move from the slender path-Narrows and the grey giant-WTC idea, but that monument in JPJ Park looks like it could be a grey giant.  How would the verse get you to that though?

OMG….welcome to my nightmare AP!

Boogie,
I’m sorry for creating more possibilities…
I found that BP’s office was on Manhattan (24 W. 25th St.)
So I started to “Google-walk around” his work place
to see if clues were things he saw every day.
It does seem that BP did prefer to bury casques in
our-of-the-way places.  Shore Rd. Park is still a
good candidate.
AP

Boogie,
Had you ever heard of the three alternate “B” island names before?
AP

One branch of the V??
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of … 179126841/

I added one more picture to my previous post
to show the Eastward branch of the ball-field
by the Williamsburg Bridge.
There are other ball-fields along the river
that may have good tree-areas to bury a casque unseen
at the end of the “v” of the ball diamond.

I was taking a look at the pedestrian bridge you pointed out on
P51
and noticed this:
Symbols.com suggests this is a symbol for “Copper” and “Venus”. Sounds like a pretty good description of the Statue of Liberty…
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/06/062.html
As Fox pointed out, there’s also a belt tie-in with the image. It’s an arm over a slender path or “belt” (Belt Pkwy) which is in the shadow of its big brother the grey giant, figuratively speaking. (Here’s a shot of Verrazano through its archway.)
These could be the steps.
The circle is this flagpole.
From the middle of one branch of the V…
(Here’s the view north from the crossing. She’s out there somewhere.)
The other semicircle in the image might provide a clue to pinpointing the location within the flagpole area…
…or it could be some clock thing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/332155554/
this mentions “22”  west indies, east indies
i would love for this to be it, but it doesn’t seem to have been there for BP
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/332 … otostream/
and this mentions immigrants also:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/332 … otostream/

Since Verse 7 is fitting Image 7 I would say that this Verse or Verse 6 goes with Image 1

i’m sorry, i keep posting verse stuff on the image stuff, so i’ll post here what i posted on the image 12 :
nd some guy owned that land (columbus circle..central park)…….guess what his name was…
john somerindyck   ……in summer…….summer in  Grin
here’s more for my theory of the subway or railways……….the door motors make a “whirring” sound
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R160_%28Ne … way_car%29
“The old cars made an odd whirring noise as the electric motor powered the car. I also remember the putt-putt-putt sound made by the car’s air compressor for the air brakes. The very ol”
http://johnsantic.com/nyc_dorm/
and trying to go that PATH with the subways (and i hate maps) but would “in summer”, make you think of the bahamas (in the west indies)?  (or Jamaica) and the capital of bahamas is “nassau”  , then the “whirring” line, be the subway……., cars abound (parking lot?)

“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
Maybe this line is referring to Columbus’ Armada on his voyage, The Nina, The Pinta and the Santa Maria?
or even Ponce de Leon’s three ships the Santiago, the San Cristobal and the Santa Maria de la Consolacion?
(The ships were referred to as “Hard” wood ships)
Other thought:
Could be a reference to Ponce de Leon. The “Leon” is the Hard word of his name that has three parts or “Vols”
A Poem was written by Rane Arroyo about this reference to Ponce.
https://books.google.com/books?id=vl…20word&f=false
Arroyo lives in Puerto Rico where Ponce de Leon ran his expeditions to the New World. But the book was published in 2002, not sure when the poem was written. I still like the idea of the Hard word in a persons name.
If it were Ponce de Leon, we could look for something that just mentions “Leon”, like Leon county or Park or something.

I continue to ask, why put
nearby
on it’s own line. Because there is a need for an N at the start of a verse line.
Y
ou’ll often hear a whirring sound
C
ars abound
A
lthough the sign
N
earby

XeroDM

Yes… all reports are that for Chicago, the finders corresponded with BP and got some final tweaking of the location.
From seeing photos, it was pretty close to being in the middle of 4 trees in a square, so although not exact, it was pretty refined in the sense that it was directly out from the fence fixture (image match) and “central too” to the trees noted at the end of “ten by thirteen”. A little geometry could nail it down to a 2×2 area that would then have needed to be probed around or dug out. This also leads to what a lot of searchers are thinking that a lot of lines are double clues… “central too” meaning central to the trees, but also the Central line which is near by. I have found a few of these possibly double meaning lines in the verses, and they are interesting to look at and play with.

Having visited the Chicago site, I can tell you that when you are standing between those trees(or ghosts of trees) that the distance doesn’t seem as great. I didn’t measure it but it was fairly near to the fence/fixture/post. Perhaps Eric can chime in, but, regardless, A 10 x 10 area should be ‘easy’–and I use the term loosely–to find if applying the verse correctly.
Good luck!

GoldenMartyr

I continue to ask, why put
nearby
on it’s own line. Because there is a need for an N at the start of a verse line.

First, scrolling text. This guy must be pretty cool. Even with alleged death threats.
Ive been thinking about jumbles in this verse a lot lately and with that, obviously, the first letters portraying things idea.
In addition to your thought, I’m wondering if the H and V are supposed to be included and that’s actually why they’re capitalized. Possibly even the 3. Then I’m sure there’s some unscrambling/reordering to be done. I’m still working this out. I also think that possibly some words attached to the letters in the acrostic are meant to stay intact.
My main candidates for jumbles are:
Slender path. You’ve got a RD and a ST in there possibly.
Simple roots. I don’t know. It just doesn’t make sense to me otherwise why thats in the verse at all.
Problem? Names and proper nouns don’t come up in word scramblers so I have to use my brain. Haven’t had much luck but maybe the concept will spur ideas elsewhere.
Segue alert:
I don’t follow exactly what you’re getting at with your particular example, but the Y also reminded me of an issue I’ve had with the “v”.
If it’s a path, it would be a Y not a V. Also it’s lowercase and I feel like Byron might have had a hand in the font. Does anyone think it could be more about the shape? Like a u-ish rounded v shape? He had a U in there and then chuckled when he realized he could use a “v”… I’m not saying it’s a U per say, but could the object he’s indicating look more like the letter than a v? Digging too deep probably.

phrabbott

First, scrolling text. This guy must be pretty cool. Even with alleged death threats.

I caught that backhand right across the face. Appreciate it, Phil.

phrabbott

Then I’m sure there’s some unscrambling/reordering to be done. I’m still working this out. I also think that possibly some words attached to the letters in the acrostic are meant to stay intact.
My main candidates for jumbles are:
Slender path. You’ve got a RD and a ST in there possibly.
Simple roots. I don’t know. It just doesn’t make sense to me otherwise why thats in the verse at all.

phrabbott, I would suggest searching posts by user name = Wicket. She has major skills with these types of jumbles and such. Seriously.

GoldenMartyr

I caught that backhand right across the face. Appreciate it, Phil.

Thanks for the hot tip Karleen! I’d been doing word scramble games on the subway to bone up on my skills haha.
anytime.

yes! gazebo is the right name… please, forgive my odd english
(is not my mother language)
Thanks Trohn

Trohn

Eljayo-
The ‘hut’ in the park is being referred to as a ‘gazebo’
and from the ‘father of the navy’ monument
one would look directly past it to see Bedlow Island
to the North.
The thought is that Gaze North is a word play phase
for the gazebo.

Well, it fit better in BP method no? is very clever.

Just for complete the idea…
The pattern in the gazebo’s domus seem (I don’t have a good pic of the gazebo… please check it boogieman) like the pattern in pic 12, then…
Well, I enjoy to share this idea… and has having a good time. don’t dismiss when you’ll be there.

fox

I think boogieman interpretted the “V” as Verrazano Bridge itself.  Also, check out the pic of the park boogie posted w/ the bridge behind it….  those sets of supporting beams sure look like giant V’s to me.  Can we stand directly below the bridge to either start the path or actually dig?

Yes, it was mentioned before…

I like it!  I’ve got pics of the gazebo from my trip there last month but never posted them.  Wasn’t needed I thought.  Still, no pics from that angle.  Will do!!!
But Trohn, from the monument, you would have to look south to see the gazebo, and just maybe, from that monument you might see eljayo’e view of the top of gazebo centered in the arch of the bridge.  hmmmmm

Here is a line from the monument to the gazebo and the bridge is right in line behind the gazebo.  Whether it lines up perfectly, we’ll have to find out.

Good point. I suppose you could look north to it from eastern Staten Island or western Brooklyn…

Byron Preiss

Or more

Do you mean Moore, as in Annie….the first immigrant to pass through Ellis Island?

My first thought is that the marathon sounds plausible since bikes make a “whirring” sound. But when I re-read the verse “In summer you’ll often hear a whirring sound,” it doesn’t hold up. “Often” implies more than one day a year and the marathon is in November, not the summer.
I think the Verrazano Bridge is a good lead given the similarities to the picture and the verse fitting with JPJ Park. I just don’t know how BP could expect us to look down if the bridge has never been open to pedestrians. I guess that’s the question, isn’t it?
Shannon

Trohn, nothing really matched the image other than knowing the Lady Liberty was near, and the arch of the bridge was perfect.  Even this guy Evan spoke of the great Russian population that had immigrated to Brooklyn.  He nailed the domes as a Russian Church, but the one we found last year isn’t close to the park at all.  Is knowing it is in Brooklyn enough?  Fox and I tried to match anything we could to the image.  Nothing jumped out like in Egbert’s image.  The preverbial Ah Ha! glimpse…  We talked about that alot.  25 years ago, who knows what was here back then.
Regulus, sounds simple to take 22 steps to the monument and look down.  Only where is the starting point.  We dug simply on the chance that where ever the starting point, it had to end at the monument.  Those cross streets, 22 steps wouldn’t get you anywhere near the monument.  My best guess right now is that
from the middle of one
branch
of the v
says that the v is made up of trees.  Branch = tree.  With two rows of trees making a v shape, one of them is the branch.  It doesn’t have to be a tree in the middle of one of the sides of the v, but take the steps from the
middle
of any of the trees itself.  And that branch or tree is the one that actually starts the v, the exact tree at the point of the v.  This puts my mind back to the steps starting out of the east side of the park heading west.  Just like an
east wind
comes out of the east flowing into the west.  This theory, better yet a simple guess, would put you at the tree just east of the monument, and actually 22 walking steps to the spot where Fox and I ( and his 7 year son) started digging, under the cooler.  Still, gaze north?  Like I said earlier, we got about two feet down.  Not enough.  And the diameter of the hole was quite small.  Here’s a pic i took months ago:

And another;

what about digging outside of the gate?

regulus

what about digging outside of the gate?

Why outside?

boogieman

My best guess right now is that
from the middle of one
branch
of the v
says that the v is made up of trees.  Branch = tree.  With two rows of trees making a v shape, one of them is the branch.  It doesn’t have to be a tree in the middle of one of the sides of the v, but take the steps from the
middle
of any of the trees itself.  And that branch or tree is the one that actually starts the v, the exact tree at the point of the v.

I thought the conclusion was that the v was the cables from the flagpole?
If you did not see anything but the shape of the bridge matching the picture, what makes you 100% sure that it’s the right park?  Did anyone get a chance to explore Washington Square?
Shannon

what does simple root mean boogie?

at one point I was poking around the Liberty island vancouver site and found a picture of harding and two books in a concrete monument. I looked later and it was gone.
well, lo and behold, I was looking around some of my old Houston pictures and found it had been saved on my hard drive.  It may be that there are 3 books on the whole monument, this only shows 2.
wilhouse
______________________________
Bryon Preiss, you will not be forgotten.

My Buddy Ian posted my solution a few months ago, I would really like to hear some feedback on it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jww3gold1XBQ8yabIhTugz1xA7-x9_1-quut3cQsOoc/edit?usp=sharing
We recently went to Brooklyn to hunt for this treasure – we went to the Russian Orthodox Cathedral, scouted around McCarren Park (next to the Cathedral) and then went to John Paul Jones park. We didn’t really find much new information, just confirmed the hunches we had before. The Cathedral is a really close match, and John Paul Jones park seems like a good enough spot for this treasure to be hidden in. The “monument” thing I found on google and bing maps in my solution is an old Telecommunications box. I do think there are issues with the treasure being buried here – would he have buried it so close to underground cabling? With that said, I am
very confident
that the treasure is buried somewhere nearby John Paul Jones park in Brooklyn, NY.
Lady Liberty and the Eagle bring you to NYC.
The Cathedral brings you to Brooklyn.
The verse brings you to John Paul Jones park.
There is water and crashing waves next to the park.
Let me know what you think
-deusrex

With slappy’s Prospect Park idea, and my two large previous posts with pictures and supporting evidence, I think we have a reasonable dig spot… or at least a poking spot.
Is anyone available in that area? Willing to poke around there and let us know?

Believe it or not Cormac…that makes perfect sense now that you broke it down.
To make your point even a little clearer, you shouldn’t have left some off.  Look:
“Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
The “although” could be just what you need.  Emphasize it & Indies and you get
Although
the sign nearby speaks of
Indies
natives…… The (some other type other than Indies) natives still…
It sure makes sense but are we supposed to differentiate between the natives?
Argggghhhhh!

Siskel

And a great Bing Map of Roosevelt Island posted by Deusrex. Could the island be said to be in the shadow of the grey giant being the Queensborough Bridge? A look at the map shows that it runs right over the island. Not a lot of sites have that kind of distinction …
My only fear about this island is that it has had tremendous renovation done at the southern tip for the memorial area (where one could arguably stand and gaze north toward the Isle of B (Blackwell’s), if Byron was trying to situate you as to the area on the island where you would want to be. That southern most area was all park, way back when. Could they have, in the immortal words of Joni Mitchell, paved paradise and put up a parking lot?!

I guess we’re going to have to go back to the city and look some more.
I posted several months ago about an a-ha! moment I had walking through Bushnell Park in Hartford. I can push it to the back of my mind but I can’t bring myself to dismiss it completely because everything jumped out at me when I wasn’t even looking for it. That said, having gone to Brooklyn and seen the cathedral in person, it’s unquestionable in my mind that JJP was looking at a photo of it when he drew image 12. His children’s comments about his love of Gershwin makes it hard to ignore the “rhapsodic man’s soil” connection, and putting one near home makes perfect sense. We’ll have to work on some more idea to try out and see what we can find.

Based on the widely recognizable initials of persons in V12: Mozart, Beethoven, Roosevelt, and Lincoln, I feel it’s a good bet that the B. or even the “v” in this verse stand for widely recognizable places. While it’s possible the primarily intent for the “v” is to indicate a fork in a path, the reason for it’s use might also be to suggest an overall association with the letter V because it may be recognized for Vancouver. Vancouver B.C. also contains a “B”. I prefer to search for an isle of British Columbia.

WhiteRabbit

Mainly the picture of it…
It would be hard to convince me this wasn’t Shore Road Park. But I’ll admit it seems very plausible that BP was aware of this plaque. It’s the best fit for that line, just, not any of the rest of it.

You’re right… SRP is a pretty sweet fit; but, I have been trying to keep an open mind about things (perhaps because the lack of a solution is discouraging). I don’t think I have it all figured out, but I’ve definitely found an intriguing alternate path up/down Broad St.
Could the Battery be the “arm” that “extends over the slender path,” the Battery Underpass?
A couple blocks down from the sign is the American Express Building (see the eagle?) with the NYSE Building across the street (see the woman?).
On the front of the Brooklyn Tunnel Ventilation Building is three plaques in line – a rising sun (summer?), a windmill (whirring?) and the bridge (cars abound?).
Perhaps “In summer” refers to Summer Excursion, located at the southern tip of Battery Park until the late 90’s, with the “whirring” being the 1961 helipad next door and cars abounding at the ferry station and tunnel?
The sign is certainly nearby the helipad/Summer Excursion/ferry building and tunnel… take Moore St.
Could “gaze” north refer to the pier (peer) north of the Battery?
Dickinson’s son has a prominent marker in the Trinity Cemetery noting as much.
Pearl, stone, and water street are right there…
There’s more, but this seems like a lot to chew on for me.

Glossiphoniidae

What makes you think the “isle (not capitalized) of B.” is an actual island?

Mainly the picture of it…
It would be hard to convince me this wasn’t Shore Road Park. But I’ll admit it seems very plausible that BP was aware of this plaque. It’s the best fit for that line, just, not any of the rest of it.

why 11×2 btw?

Spiritr

why 11×2 btw?

If you are associating this verse with image 12, most people believe it refers to the time shown on the clock in the image.
11:00.

“
Take twice
as many
east steps
as the
hour
“
Take twice….could it be like a bus? a train? a pill? you take it 2 times?
east steps as the hour….so “hour”, no “s” , meaning 60 minutes, or 12, take twice=x2? it really just depends on what exactly is the “
hour
“
any suggestions?

11×2=22…

Spiritr

…it really just depends on what exactly is the “
hour
“…

That’s the question, isn’t it? One suggestion is that each image and/or verse can be assigned an hour from one thru twelve. Thus, the number of steps for this line should be from a limited set: {2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24}. Brute force method means you just try 12 times, incrementing by 2 steps until success, right?

Dicey, I don’t see the lion or FDR face as those things at all.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vKD5xPKzWdU/U … G_1287.JPG
I see it as the Warrior Face on the bottom of the Clarence T. Barrett monument on Staten Island. This face with the open mouth is a relief pipe (drain) of some sort for the fountain on the back of the statue.

MrBackstop

Dicey, I don’t see the lion or FDR face as those things at all.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vKD5xPKzWdU/U … G_1287.JPG
I see it as the Warrior Face on the bottom of the Clarence T. Barrett monument on Staten Island. This face with the open mouth is a relief pipe (drain) of some sort for the fountain on the back of the statue.

OK then. How do the other shapes and forms on and near the dangling belt relate to your location along with the other bits?I read in some of the older posts where there was one individual that went looking for the casque on Roosevelt island but he was looking at the south tip( wrong location and did not find anything). To me reading the verses your start location is extremely close to or in the park near the dig site if he is telling you to walk to it in a certain direction or number of steps then it’s not that far ( probably less than 1/4 mile), just my theory but if someone wants to do a marathon to the dig site from the start location then go for it , we could all use the stretch.
One interesting bit was when viewing the UN bldg. from above there is a multicoloured flower garden on the north side that looks like those multicoloured circles in the image on the upper left side…..coincidents?
Maybe and it might be and probably is far fetched but the seagull with the eagle head represents a plane (flight path to JFK airport) and it passes over UN bldg. , Statue of Liberty , some significant church , and something to do with time.

Nice, you think the tiger might be color blind as well so all it sees is the grey color?

V for vector?
Has this verse been narrowed or pinned down at all?
So, is Hard words in 3 vol. at all resolved?  Can we use the physics/engineering angle in a specific way?
I haven’t read this thread yet…just jumping over here looking for any possible connection to P3 and the Confessions of St. Augustine.

WhiteRabbit

I previously suggested Fort Hamilton High School as a shape in this image. I was just taking another look at it and I still like this, so I thought I’d have another go at trying to convince y’all.
View opposite:
Aerial view:
Here’s that same “V” seen from the coast road:
Note the road sign (circled above):

It’s generally reckoned to go with Image 12, New York. I see it something like this:
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
Involves the Statue of Liberty, the Verrazano Bridge, the Narrows, Narrows Ave, Belt Parkway in some combination. Take your pick about which is which.
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
Best guess so far is cars and helicopters. Slightly banal though.
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The “Indies Native” is reckoned to be
Hamilton
, and the sign possibly the one at Brooklyn’s Fort Hamilton High.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Dunno, possibly Webster.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Possibly a V-shaped pathway beside Fort Hamilton High, Gershwin being the “Rhapsodic Man”.
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
Bedloe’s, an old name for Liberty Island, which you can see north of this point.

Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
This makes me think of the Arawak Indians of the West Indies or the Carib people.
Arawak sounds like “Air Walk” and so I imagine this could be signage for some kind of air travel: airport, airlift, high bridge, or tram.

If it were in Concert Grove, and I’m not saying it is…
Maybe you are taking the Verrazano to the Fort Hamilton exit, which has the Poly clock tower clearly visible from the exit ramp. Take Hamilton to MacDonald… a hard C with 3 vols… E-I-E-I-O.

Does the verse work overtime to direct our attention to the letter “V” for a specific reason?  My current thinking involves the two options of V for Victory or V for Vancouver.  The line about the middle of a branch of the v could be a clue about a Peace related statue or object.  Im thinking of “middle” as “meeting in the middle” as in “settling a conflict” or a kind of “branch” being an olive branch.

ONE STEP AWAY, BASE OF THE PEDESTAL.  unless i misread, which is very likely.

“Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
I think I found what we are looking for.
This is the Merchant Marine Plaque on the Alexander Hamilton Custom House aka The Museum of the American Indian.
It is located near Bowling Green, in downtown Manhattan, near a lot of the monuments, etc. that we have discussed.
On it is a quote from Warren HARDing:
“These men rendered one of the greatest services that could have been done for our nation and civilization’s cause. Hundreds of precious lives were lost – a loss that can never be made up by their country.”
I have not yet researched all of the other info about this building, including the many statues and carvings all around it. If you think I may be on the right track, please feel free to research it.
We have an Indies Native (Hamilton), we have him of Hard word, and we have the natives (American Indian). Not sure about the 3 Vols yet, but I bet research may lead to possibilities.
Also the Fraunces Tavern is “nearby,” which speaks of a different Indies native. The ferries and helicopter pads are south, which is where cars abound (onto the car ferry) and where you will often hear a whirring sound in warmer weather (when the copters fly).

People have played around w/ anagrams and acrostics but really havent gotten very far….except for the one for Ft of Youth site.  Maybe we all should take another look

ugh…I am SO against digging near a tree.

animal painter

If we want to “see” the reference of “Him of Hard word” at the same time we are
seeing the “nearby sign of Indies native”…could it be the sign over the Belt Prkwy
for Kennedy Airport?  It is visible at the same time as the Ft Hamilton sign over the Pkwy
when you are standing in the park along the shore.
Kennedy made an oft-quoted speech at Rice University on September 12, 1962, in which he said:
“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are
hard
.”

animal painter

The same criteria are met with the John Paul Jones tree from which
both Ft Hamilton and (Stonewall) Jackson Ct. street signs may be seen.
On the “plus” side:
The tree does resemble the tree in the folds very much.
On the “minus” side:
The tree would not lend itself well to digging unseen &
You cannot see the Isle of B…or even the water from there.

http://mapandcounters.blogspot.com/2010 … lumes.html
“Lee’s Lieutenants” (3 volumes)
//
If Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson had not been mortally wounded by his own pickets at the battle of Chancellorsville in May 1863, the dynamic and aggressive General Jackson, “Lee’s strong right arm” — and not the cautious Lt. General Richard Ewell — would have commanded the corps on the left wing of Lee’s army at Gettysburg on 1 July, 1863
.//
Although the sign nearby speaks of Hamilton, the natives still speak of Stonewall in 3 volumes.
You can see Fort Hamilton from Jackson Ct.  About 50-75 yards away.
Authors Charles Schibner and sons are from NY.  (natives of NY)  But Douglas Southall Freeman is from Virginia.

Boogie,
As long as “natives” are people born in America…it could be enough.
As long as Americans…or New Yorkers. (authors, readers or publishers)..
have a connection to 3 books or volumes, it could be enough.
BP wanted to make a reference to something in the immediate area…without handing it to us on a platter!
The specific number of 3 volumes of
Lee’s Lieutenants
is good.
Being able to get a look at the local trees without leaves would help to
identify them more easily.
AP

boogieman,  when the ground gets warm don’t forget about Leif Ericson Park with
Tune,
Norway, okay?   (lei
v
)
besides john paul jones, immigration song, III album
all these words mean
TUNE-
—
song,
bliss, harmony
,
content
, plus
friendship (comradeship(on the monument
), peace, symphony, concert, unity
and we have owl’s head park, (bliss), and
harmony
playground (prospect park) and
concert grove
p. 23- “So
long
as the
Native
Peoples would live in
harmony
with Nature, the “
Shining
Ones From Over The Big
Sea
Water” (as they were called) were
content
to live in
harmony
with them.
……..saluting the flag, national anthem
“shining ones” are depicted as  the fair folks (spirit?), or gods…….. gods of the sea………the navy?
okay, after posting all that………i keep thinking of the
song
“America, My country tis of thee and
O Beautiful..)“………and the
song
“
Star-Spangled Banner
and
singing
sea
to
shining
sea, fruited
plain
, dawn’s early light (sunset park)……..yellow hair s
treaming
(gallantly streaming)…….whose
broad
stripes (broad boats)……..rockets red
glare
(
gaze
north)  or
look up
(flagpole),  toward the isle of b…..brooklyn…
the flagpole at john paul jones park
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/johnpa … uments/824
and the dover patrol has “
worth
y” and
comradeship
, and most remembered for the Zeebrugge Raid on April
22
still would make more sense for this to go with the dutch image, because the dover straits are right there by the netherlands
spangle:
Definition: shimmer  (shining…….),(beady?)
Synonyms: adorn, coruscate, decorate, flash, gleam, glimmer, glisten, glitter, ornament, sequin, sparkle, sprinkle, star, trim, twinkle
Definition: shimmer, flicker
Synonyms: beam, bedazzle, blaze, blink, coruscate, dazzle, flame, flare, glance, glare, gleam, glimmer, glint, glisten, glitter, glow, incandesce, light, phosphoresce, radiate, reflect, scintillate, shine, shoot out, spangle, spark, sparkle, twinkle
strange that
spangle
means
glare,
which could mean
gaze.
north….
look up
toward the stars and stripes…..
keep all this in mind okay boogieman?
one more word for song:
hymns

or of course the netherlands flagpole in battery park
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batter … ights/8094
“consider a group of those  frugal (financial district) lowlands dwarves, the Alven, hovering (hanging, floating over (flag)), invisible (spirit) and observing (gazing?  discovering? surveying?) in economic agony ( the sale of manhattan) while their old friends the canarsie tribe traded manhattan for a handful of trinkets!
22
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N9 … HJUEQq7WjA
it mentions the “dutch merchant empire”………the west india company, and “the creation”……….discovery?
there is a jewish flagpole by peter miniut plaza
emma lazarus was jewish….
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batter … ghts/13319
http://infotrue.com/tourjewish.html
and also……..the guy with “the monitor” (battery park, john ericsson?)………..monitor could mean gaze or look at

http://books.google.com/books?id=xdCL5V … #PPA145,M1
bay ridge had more norwegians than anywhere in the world besides norway
top of p. 145
trying to find out what the eyeballs are, i was thinking lights, because when you take a pic sometimes the reflection kind of looks like that, but, then i looked at “stanchion” for flagstaff, and it said “beam”  an upright post.
they do seem to “beam” and twinkle (the eyeballs in the image)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … N%26um%3D1
which can circle around to stars on a flag, lol

the household unfamiliars remind me of the subway stops:
“green spots, ketchup spots, gravy spots, brown spots, yellow spots, indelible spots”…………..spots—-stops
and…….they have a B[/b  for “isle of B.”
like B16, B41……..
you’d be looking north to the bus stop at marine ave?

I have an observation that I do not know what to do with
concerning the verse….keep in mind, it was written in 1981.
Taking the first letters of the middle lines…
you get the curious ‘acronym’
C
A
N
S
T
O
T
O
or  ‘Cans Toto’
Now we all know that in 1981, a huge rock band was Toto.
So, the question I have is…. Who fired the band Toto?

No snow on ground, but storms every other day. Due for 2 more storms before the week ends

Getting ready to scout the Brooklyn area.
Whirring sound, east steps, simple roots
…. They still bother me ALOT.  I like the
gaze
north with the gazebos.  Very big coincidence going on with the Roanoke verse and this one.  Both suspected locations having them
in sight plus being in the verses.  Very nice.
Shecrab, I’d like to know (without giving your site away) what kind of thoughts you have concerning the things in this verse that bother me.  At least the whirring sound and the simple roots.  I’m thinking a circular motion of some sort makes the sound.  And weeds or grass being the roots.  At this point, I don’t need to know your location, just how you would fit these things into your Canada site, to maybe open things up for me.  What say you?

anus905

lmao. never listen to this guy.

How is your time traveler theory going Josh? Did you show Josh Gates all fragments you have found and all the puzzles you solved!? Are you still using the hostile’s WiFi to get passed your ban to this forum? Most importantly, are you taking your meds?!!

NYCNative

the hostile’s WiFi

The Hostiles lived in that camp out in the woods. It was the Dharma Initiative that had Wifi

True. It is inland. But since the verse says “or gaze north “toward” the isle of B.” I don’t thing we need to actually see the island. It’s just a reference point to say this island is north of the site. It doesn’t say anything about “seeing” the island.

Erexere you’re exactly right. That’s what makes this so tough. The endless possibilities. But until a site is absolutely disproved we don’t know what is actually right or wrong. I’ll never say that I’m 100% right on any of these but who’s to say I’m wrong.

Deuce

I’ll never say that I’m 100% right on any of these but who’s to say I’m wrong.

malted.
Seriously though, here’s a fun one:

Where is that? I hope at Prospect!

Yes. It’s a tuft of chest hair on Bailey Fountain.

Not to disprove your idea but here is just something I found and wanted to add.
I’ve been thinking about your “grey giant”. I like my pointing liberty idea but it may or may not be correct considering shes green. So I started looking at the Soldiers and Sailors Arch in Grand Army Plaza at the entrance to Prospect Park. It is a triumphal arch dedicated “To the Defenders of the Union”.
So I dug further…
Standing in the arch on the “slender path” you are literally “in the shadow of the grey giant”. On the walls inside the arch are Grant on a horse on one side and Lincoln on a horse on the other. The interesting thing is that Grant has his arms bent holding the reins while Lincoln has one “arm that extends”. Can this be a clue to make us look at Lincoln inside the arch and then find him in Prospect Park? Also the roadway is very close to and actually surrounds the arch. “Cars abound”?
Just thinking out loud.
Deuce

The more alternatives the merrier.
That Grant/Lincoln/Arch idea rocks.  If my head wasn’t packed full of so many other ideas I’d get into the Prospect Park idea.
I can’t argue that Image 12 doesn’t have some good NY/SoL characteristics.  The Moorish/Russian architecture hasn’t been rolled into that yet has it?
Keep rollin with it, Deuce.  😉

We’ve been looking at the arch for a while, and Lincoln’s arm points to Grant on the other side of the arch rather than outward somewhere. What is interesting though, is that the Empire State building is centered in the arch (similar to the chrysler gargoyle in the middle of the arch/image):
A really interesting read:
http://thebrooklynmirador.com/

That’s awesome. I’m liking this location more and more each day. I think I read a post where someone pointed out a possible Empire State Building in the sleeve shadow of image 12. Lets keep this rhythm going. I think we’re close.

That’s what she said

If this Prospect is the right track I’ll be suprised.  I have doubts about my theories just the same.  Its suprising to see how well something fits together only to end up wrong is what I’m saying.
So, how does prospect park fit a root, branch, soil theme?

Deuce

“Or gaze north toward the isle of B.”
An isle is a small island. Directly north of Prospect Park is Belmont Island in the East River. A very small island.

I just got round to looking at this on Google maps. No way. Prospect Park is miles inland.

Thanks
2fast
.  I guess that would have been too easy…a bench.
Took a quick “unplanned” trip to JPJ Park today.  Nothing jumped out, but there are a few things of interest.
There is a huge
sign
for Fort Hamilton opposite the park at 101st St. and Ft Hamilton Prkwy.  The only way to see it is by coming down FT Hamilton Prkwy nearing the park.  You are looking at as you get closer.  Make left into Fort under the bridge, make right onto 101st to drive along JPJ Park.  4th Ave is a one-way street going back into Brooklyn, away from the park.
The
plaque
is not where it seems via satellite.  It is actually on the north side of the flagpole, in the ground.  What I saw on the south side looking north was a sign honoring vietnam vets.  It was sitting on an old slab of concrete. I don’t know when the sign was put there, but it looks recent and it is black marble.  In the satellite link, it looks like the JPJ plaque is there.
I bet it was moved.  Infact, the whole flagpole was moved a few feet to the south, now that I am looking again at the satellite.  Must have been to make space to put the JPJ plaque on the footpath side.  I took some pics with a throw-away camera.  Give me a couple of days to post those.
The
rock
was to the
east
of the obelisk, closer to 101st St.  Here’s an interesting bit. From the plaque, (where it is located now), 22 east steps takes you to the corner, and/or edge of the foot path.  The v maybe?  If you gaze north, it takes another 22 steps to the north and you are at the
rock
.  I’m guessing 22 steps is 22 yards.  Each step I took was equal to about one yard.
No visuals of image12 anywhere, other than the arch of the Verrazano.  Help!!!

Boogie – it might help the rest of us if you could take a screen-shot from local.live or Google Earth and mark these spots so there is no confusion.

Unknown

Unknown:
A friend of mine suggests North Dakota for this verse.
The lines “The natives still speak / Of him of Hard word,” as well as the “grey giant,” could refer to a statue of an Indian chief carved in a mountain.
–Johann

What comes to mind is the statue of Crazy Horse, which (when finished) will be the largest sculpture ever made.  It will have an outstretched arm, but Heaven only knows what it looked like when the book was written

For clarification, the operator in my “related to” theory is the word “still.” If that word weren’t there we could easily go “Hamilton, check. Dickens, check. Next!”
But because it is, I feel they must be related. Whether historic competitors or just a street that was renamed. I would say Hard word is the verse 10 equivalent of “set in stone”, but then why’s it capitalized? Oof!

Eureeka!
The phrase has gotta point to something related to “Blue Man Group!”
I know there is a small Park behind Cooper Union in NYC, almost directly across the street from the Blue Man Group theater!
…. Well perhaps not!
But seriously, what’s the current thinking on “In rhapsodic man’s soil”?
Thnx.

Pass two friends of octave (Octave Chanute) lower case

This has been mentioned a tiny bit before, but in the verse it says “grey giant” not “gray giant”. Grey being the english spelling and Gray being american spelling. Is this not a hint that the giant we are looking for is british?

lost

Pass two friends of octave (Octave Chanute) lower case

right- so it must be pass to friends of 8

maltedfalcon

right- so it must be pass to friends of 8

An octave has 12 notes.

I thought Blue Man Group started in early 90’s or late 80’s.

dosethree

This has been mentioned a tiny bit before, but in the verse it says “grey giant” not “gray giant”. Grey being the english spelling and Gray being american spelling. Is this not a hint that the giant we are looking for is british?

True

A non-English grey is the Greyhound station/port authority in NYC.

rabidrabbit

Kang—Thnx for the encouragement….Of course the RULES I see my just be coincidence (or even typos on the original pages) — But my (another) close study of the verse can’t hurt….
QUESTION: Has it been confirmed that BP was a Brooklyn, NY native?…

As for Preiss yes, it has been established that he grew up in Brooklyn. His parents lived at 832 Ocean Ave in Flatbush according to the 1940 Census and I believe they still lived there when he was growing up (though am not 100% sure). As stated on the podcast by the book’s photographer Ben Asen he attended Midwood High School (they both went there and knew each other).
Harley Quinn posted up a pic from his high school yearbook here:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=728&p=146049&hilit=midwood#p146046
Curious to see what you come up with in final form. But I’m a fan of the thought you’re putting into it. Carry on.

rabidrabbit

Kang—Thnx for the encouragement….Of course the RULES I see my just be coincidence (or even typos on the original pages) — But my (another) close study of the verse can’t hurt….
QUESTION: Has it been confirmed that BP was a Brooklyn, NY native?…

As for Preiss yes, it has been established that he grew up in Brooklyn. His parents lived at 832 Ocean Ave in Flatbush according to the 1940 Census and I believe they still lived there when he was growing up (though am not 100% sure). As stated on the podcast by the book’s photographer Ben Asen he attended
Midwood
High School (they both went there and knew each other).
Harley Quinn posted up a pic from his high school yearbook here:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=728&p=146049&hilit=
midwood
#p146046
Curious to see what you come up with in final form. But I’m a fan of the thought you’re putting into it. Carry on.

dosethree

This has been mentioned a tiny bit before, but in the verse it says “grey giant” not “gray giant”. Grey being the english spelling and Gray being american spelling. Is this not a hint that the giant we are looking for is british?

or perhaps the e – while a valid spelling is a clue to the gray giant being east of where you are.
which becomes stronger when you consider the previous line – In the shadow of – meaning we are looking at a spot due west of a gray giant.

erexere

An octave has 12 notes.

oc·tave
/ˈäktəv,ˈäkˌtāv/
noun
1.
MUSIC
a series of eight notes occupying the interval between (and including) two notes, one having twice or half the frequency of vibration of the other.
2.
a poem or stanza of eight lines; an octet.
and yes it depends on the scale but oct is also the prefix for 8 and the japanese clue references 8

Why is this convo happening in the V10 thread? Did I miss some new fangled connection of verses now?