gqchu

Being a noob on this board, what is the underlying purpose of this board?
I thought it would be a place where individuals, in quest for treasures, can post their theories which can be analyzed, debated, tested, accepted or refuted.
How do irrelevant quotes, comments and replies help in this quest except to make that member feel good about themselves?
Interesting that some commentators have no posts themselves that offers their own theories or facts. They just comment.
Are they here to leech information provided by others?
Are they here to demoralize any treasure hunters so that they can share in their own misery that they themselves have no chance of finding any treasure or even basic deciphering skills?

The underlying purpose of the board is hunting for treasure, though I think you’re expecting a bit much if you’re expecting conversation to be restricted entirely to theories and debate and conversation narrowly focused on the treasure hunt. Having a forum is a social pursuit, and people tend to socialize, so you will see plenty of broader discussion.
Since this forum is semi-open, of course we will get lurkers and commenters and people who don’t contribute theories or facts. You’ll have to figure out on your own who might be credible, who’s trolling, who is here to suck down information without contributing. Even posting something that might be entirely right won’t necessarily get the comment you might expect.

Hopefully last noob question:
Is it worth it to buy the book. Heard the reproduction is horrible, but is there anything worthwhile in the hundreds of pages besides the verses and images?

gqchu

Hopefully last noob question:
Is it worth it to buy the book. Heard the reproduction is horrible, but is there anything worthwhile in the hundreds of pages besides the verses and images?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45degreesSA

gqchu

Hopefully last noob question:
Is it worth it to buy the book. Heard the reproduction is horrible, but is there anything worthwhile in the hundreds of pages besides the verses and images?

IMHO, it is not necessary to buy the book. Especially at the ridiculous prices out there for an original copy. If you could find an original at a used bookstore somewhere, I would definitely grab it. I would stay as far away from a reproduction as possible. You can find everything needed in these forums and a few other places online. Below is a link to most of the important pages from the book. It was stated before that anything in the book after the verses, offer no additional clues. There may be clues in the pages preceding the images / verses. Others may be able to speak to that point.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45degreessa/
Also checkout the thread “Clues in the Book.” Good information there and also pages from the Japanese edition on page 15 of that thread.

Hey all. I’m relatively new, but have been following The Secret for awhile. I have been waiting for a few weeks to get access to the site and have come up with some interesting bits that I don’t see posted here. Hopefully some of it may help spark some creative theories about the hunt. I tried to stay away from other people’s theories about where they think verse 10 leads and this is what I came up with entirely on my own with just google, google maps, street view, and a few books in the library.
Also, I live just outside of NYC and have been here all of my life. I wasn’t alive when Preiss buried the casques, but I’m not too far off. I remember what the 80’s were like at least, so I tried to use that as much as I could, or at least where it matters.
With that said, I think that verse 10 absolutely points to New York City and pairs with image 12. I immediately see all of the following images in the painting. Statue of Liberty face (identical hairline), seagull with the eagle head (we call them flying rats here), the world trade center building, the ocean with the “74” in it, the big circling whirlpool like waves in the bottom left, the “white water” wave crashing above the whirlpool, the cattle/buffalo looking thing that’s leaning down in the wave to the right, a lion/tiger looking half face in robe of the woman, the hand positioning of the woman, the 3 orbs and the gem stone floating below the woman, the arch shape with the mosaics and colored squares in it, and finally the space between the wings of the seagull that the arch border doesn’t continue through.
So now that the image is broken down visually into symbolic pieces, I looked at the verse and tried to match up anything between the two that I could initially see. I’m taking the approach of “keeping it simple” initially.
Immediately when I hear Grey Giant, I think of the original world trade center. The buildings were the tallest buildings in NYC and very obviously grey. Back int he time that Preiss made this book, the World Trade Center complex was actually not even that old (1973). I honestly don’t know what year Preiss buried the casques, but I think it’s fair to say it was somewhere in between the late 70’s and 1982. So the complex would have only been roughly 6-8 years old. Still a wonder to most people of the time. I also tried to tie my theory into the overarching story that the book is about. Immigration. The World Trade Center would have so many connections to that theme. You can make your own assumptions there as to what those are. So, I think this journey in verse 10 starts at the World Trade Center complex.
Once you’re at World Trade Center, it’s a bit shady to me about how you get to my next spot, but I have a few theories. Both lead to the same location, so it honestly doesn’t really matter which one fits, I’ll just go with one for now. Either way, if you consider the tower to be an actual giant, it would have legitimate arms. If you see the tower as the giant and the street on either side of it as arms, you would just follow one of the streets next to it out to the next location. But which one? If you are near the world trade center and you look at the streets near it, there are a few obvious choices. But I think this is where an interesting play on words takes place. Broadway is a very prominent road in this area. It cuts directly south. I would say it is even the MAIN street in this section of Manhattan. But, the play on words is that he is speaking of a SLENDER path. What’s the opposite of a slender path? A BROAD way. Also, this plays into the next part of my theory, so bare with me for a second.
The next few verses are very obvious if taken literally and simply. In summer you’ll often hear a whirring sound cars abound. So for one, this area is a heavily touristy area of New York. Helicopters are constantly going up and flying around for the sea port just south of here. In fact, I was just there this past weekend and there were already helicopters going up and taking tourists out for scenic rides of the sea port and beyond. Cars abound is obvious enough. It’s New York City. There are cars literally everywhere. Even in this area. I’m even more certain that in the 80’s it was probably worse with cars. They’ve somewhat blocked off portions of this area to traffic now adays because of all of the tourists wanting to see the area, but in the 80’s it definitely wasn’t like that. NYC used to be a much grittier place back then.
So once we are on Broadway we are given the clue about the sign nearby speaking of Indies Native and the natives still speaking of him of hard word in 3 Vols. Well, we know for certain that one of the most prominent historical figures in this area is Alexander Hamilton. He was born in the West Indies and is buried in Trinity Church Cemetery, which would you look at that, is right off of Broadway where we are standing some 2 blocks away from the World Trade complex. ALSO, let’s talk about the 3 Vols thing. This is one clue that I looked to for help. I’ve read and heard of the Japanese version of the book which gives us the clue for this part. “Chicken”. Cool… Well it ends up being Charles Dickens when you mess around with the words. C Dickens, Chicken? Sure why not. See the reason why that fits is because he wrote some satire back in the day that was called Hard Times in which he spoke of his travels in many different cities. One of which was NYC. There is a very famous path that is still very well known that Charles Dickens took on his “First trip to New York City”. Guess where it started? Trinity Church yard on Broadway. Right near the Alexander Hamilton monument.
Here is where things start to get interesting. I don’t think that all the verses are meant to be deciphered in order of which they are written. There are some of these that don’t make sense if you just follow them in line order in which they are written in the book. This is where my theory takes another few lines first. Let’s skip the lines about taking steps from the v for now and move on to the line about looking down and seeing simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil. Let’s visualize where we are right now. Standing on Broadway with Alexander Hamilton’s monument to our right and on the exact starting point of Charles Dicken’s tour of NYC. We would be facing south. Look straight down Broadway, what do we see? A bunch of tall trees and a flag pole. What is that? It’s Bowling Green park. What’s right behind it? The US customs house, aka Alexander Hamilton US Customs house. Let’s take a walk down to it and see what we can see. Heading south, we immediately notice that Broadway splits off into two branches. One heading to the left of the park and one heading to the right of the park. The right hand side is the west side and the left hand side is the east. If we keep walking straight and ignore the paths of the road, we walk straight into the park. This is NYC’s oldest and first park. It’s historically one of the most important parks in all of New York City. In it’s earliest days there used to be an equestrian statue of Charles the III of England. When we won our Independence from Great Britain, the Sons of Liberty tore down the statue and melted it down for ammunition. The park is also surrounded by a very old gate. This gate is still original and it used to have crowns topping all of the pikes around it. These were also cut off during our independence. You can still see them today as the fence is still there.
Anyway, making this a bit more about the puzzle, in 1977 this park was reconstructed and re-beautified. A man named George T. Delacorte donated a large bit of money to the park to have these updates made. Most New Yorkers know him for his clock in central park, known simply as the Delacorte Clock which plays different kinds of music depending on the time of the year. If we interpret the word rhapsodic to mean musical, well then we just found our rhapsodic man’s soil. If you find the word rhapsodic to mean something else more similar to epic style plays or stories, well Mr. Delacrote is also famous for another small donation he made. The Delacrote Theater in central park. A public, old style outdoor theater in a sort of amphitheater style. This is also a very well known place in New York City. In the time of Mr. Preiss’ casque burial, Bowling Green Park’s soil was absolutely in 100% correlation to Mr. Delacorte. Rhapsodic man’s soil.
So now that we are in the Bowling Green Park, let’s look around and see what we can see. If you look up to the Customs House, the first thing you’ll notice is the exact shape of the entrance way matching the painting. A big archway. Next, if you looked really carefully at the top of the building, you’ll see an eagle statue that has the exact face matching the seagull in the painting. Depending on the time of year you are there, if you looked down at the ground below you, you would either see red tulips in full bloom (100% matching the red mosaic square in the picture) or you’d see the newly stemmed roots of the flowers starting to come up from the soil. (Simple roots?) These flowers have been planted in this same fashion since the 1900s. There are many pictures available online that show them being there.
Let’s look around a bit more. On the customs house, there are images of lions/tigers everywhere (matching the face in the woman’s dress). If you look up to the left of the custom’s house, you’ll see two buildings that when the sun is reflecting off of them, are the EXACT same colors as the other two mosaics in the painting. Dark blue is the further building in the back and the one closest is an aqua marine color. Each window on the building reflects back that color, making each window look like one of the dots in the mosaic. You truly need to be there to really see it. I’ve been there multiple times at different times of the year and it looks identical no matter where the sun is in the sky.
Historically speaking, the US Customs House is basically the immigration building of New York City. It plays perfectly in with he overarching story of The Secret. I don’t think that this is a coincidence. Check the statues that exist on top of the building. They are all called “Seafaring Nations: X”, where X is a country of origin that helped found our nation. There is even a statue, second from the right (if you’re looking at the front of the customs house) that is called “Seafaring Nations – France” that is holding what seems to be a tiny person in their hand. I’m not sure what significance or symbolism that has to the statue, but you can interpret it however you want to. Looks like a tiny fairy person. (I’m trying not to reach for anything at all here)
One thing that I found during some reading is that the park was rebuilt again in 2004. You can see the reconstruction efforts online if you check the nyc parks and recreation website. The park was rebuilt in a few ways. The grass was re-sodded, the paths inside the park were restructured, some trees were fixed or replanted, an irrigation system for the water fountain was built, and the outside path around the park which was made of blue stone was replaced due to cracking. That last piece is one of the most important things I could find. I google blue stone sidewalks and I found a pretty compelling piece of evidence. Give it a look yourselves. If you see what I’m seeing, than it could be a very interesting clue. Blue stone sidewalks are those types of sidewalks that are place down in what seems like random square shapes. Some are short, some are long, some are a blue color, some are a yellowwish color, and some are a MAROONish color. Look at the tiles in the painting. Those colors are exactly in that shape and in those colors. There is an issue with this though. The tiles have been replaced. It may be very difficult to find images of the park from 1977 – 2004 that are focused on the shapes, colors, and cracks of the tiles that would help us get a visual clue as to what Preiss was trying to show us. In order to find an actual dig spot, I think in this specific puzzle, we absolutely need a visual of everything in that park from that period of time.
This is me making some assumptions at this point. I just want to note that even though this entire thing is a theory, I had some “evidence” to try and support that theory. In what I’m about to say, I have no hard proof, I am just assuming. So with that said, I think that if you were in the park in the 80’s and 90’s, the park was constructed a bit differently. The way that park is sort of “closed off” by the benches that now sort of corral you around the park, the path inside used to be a lot wider. It took up more of the park. The areas of grass were all around the inner ring and outer ring of the park. So, to visualize, they would have been just around the fountain and just around the outside near the fences. I think that if you took the clue of walking as many steps as the hour or more from the western branch of Broadway and you walked into the park (which used to have eastern and western entrances) you would have ended up in grass. Now adays, you end up on the walking path that surrounds the fountain. Not sure if they paved over what used to be grass. If that’s the case, it may be difficult to dig anything up or even probe for that matter.
If anyone has any detailed pictures of bowling green from 1978 – 2003, it could potentially help prove or disprove all of the above. It’s just very difficult to say. I am very convinced that this is the park where this thing is buried. I’m just hoping this could help spark some interest there. I know others have considered it, but beyond that, I don’t see much talk of it here (through searching the forums).
Thanks for reading. Sorry for the lengthy post.

Mister EZ

There’s also…..Rock N Roll, baby!!!
TCB, baby…..TCB.
Thank you. Thank you very much.

i dunno about NYC but there is def a rock n roll angle to the san fran puzzle…

nothing of the first two clues implies you have to see it.
the first two clues of the verse taken together suggest only that NYC is the correct city, nothing more, nothing less.

what does “the location is the image” even mean?

Karleen-
You seem to be very committed.
Keep your eyes open – but don’t forget to squint when necessary.
John

anus905

nothing of the first two clues implies you have to see it.
the first two clues of the verse taken together suggest only that NYC is the correct city, nothing more, nothing less.

“In the shadow of” doesn’t imply it is in the Shadow of?
as in shadow, it blocks the light… as in in, you can see it…
Nothing implied there?

as i explained above in the shadow alone means you look for the shadow at the time, youd prob use statue of liberty. but anything will work. at 11am (puzzle #, pm rejected by process of eliminated), in the N hemisphere the shadow will be pointing (short and stubby) slightly SW.
this gives us a direction we we apply to clue #2…it gives us context.
clue #2 alone is Gray Peak.
together they tell us the location will be almost due south slightly west of Gray Peak…in the Adirondack Mountains…this tells us that it is NYC…and this is reinforced by the Hudson connection i explained above.

it implies nothing more or less unless you read that into it yourself. you cant do that. preiss designed the puzzle very careful so you have to follow the directions very carefully. i can tell you that overall NYC is probably gonna be pretty damn long, as SF is crazy long.

I know, Right?!
6,336 feet… Insane! and it’s a numeric Palindrome so go figure…

wait how many ft in a mile? lets keep it metric here.

oh man its alot longer than 2m.

hmmmmm . . . . good point

and…?

And we are going to dig at the west side of the base of the flag post with the JPJ plaque just a foot north of it…..

boogieman

On the other side of this flagpost.  In this image I took 22west steps.  I’m going to take east steps tomorrow starting from the west side of the monument.  (assuming that the v
point
is 22steps west from the flag)

Hey all. My first ever post on this site. I’ve been scoping out other peoples ideas on this hunt and started to get a few of my own. It took a while to get approved to enter. I just want to share my ideas.
These are my thoughts for verse 10 and image 12. I like NY due to all the references in the pic. So I started there and this is what I came up with. Hopefully someone from NY reads this so they can check out the site and prove me right or wrong. I haven’t had a chance to read all of the posts on this verse or pic so if I repeat an idea I apologize. I agree that the shape of the dress is Manhattan but I also think the griffin at the bottom left with the crown means Kings in Brooklyn. Also if you flip the image over and look at the part of the dress hanging off the waist at about a 45 degree angle you will see the Statue of Liberty head and arm. Feel free to tear apart my theory or add to it.
“In the shadow
Of the grey giant”
Standing on liberty island you will be in the shadow of the Statue of Liberty, literally or metaphorically. I know she isn’t really grey but bear with me..
“Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path”
At the front of the base of the statue there is a small path from the waters edge. If you follow this path it goes under the base. The base has a star-like appearance. This path goes under one of the points of the star. So this point is the “arm” that “extends over the slender path”. Look at that particular star point. Use it as an arrow. It points somewhere. But we need a boat to follow it.
“In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound”
Maybe need to work on this part a bit. When there are boats on the water you can ride one to the mainland. Following the star point you will end up in Brooklyn where cars abound.
“Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native”
I’m not sure about this. There’s possibly a sign referencing natives of the land (maybe Lenape?) or maybe we need to break down this line more. I’m still looking for a solution.
Once in Brooklyn, keep following the exact path of the star point. It will eventually take you directly to the entrance of Prospect Park. At the entrance is the Soldiers and Sailors Arch, like the arch in the pic. Maybe in this area is a reference sign about the natives so we know to stop here. Inside the park is Concert Grove. There are many statues in the grove, one of whom is Lincoln.
“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
Many people believe this refers to Harding. It may, but I’m looking for a connection to Lincoln. You’ll see why in a minute.
“Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more”
OK. So decoding the verse correctly is supposed to give us an exact location to dig. There’s no denying that for all the verses. So for this one we are to stand in a certain spot and “Take twice as many east steps as the hour”. We should follow that exact number and not deviate from the instructions. So I asked myself, why “Take twice as many east steps as the hour  / OR MORE”? “Or more” can be 1 more step or 50 more steps. That would take us out of the dig area and veer away from precise instructions. So I looked into it. If you stand at the Lincoln statue in Concert Grove and “Take twice as many east steps as the hour” (that being 22 steps due to the 11 o’clock in the pic), you will line up with another statue to the north. That statue just so happens to be Thomas Moore! So I came to the conclusion that this part of the verse is telling us to go east 22 steps from Lincoln OR go east until you line up with Moore. Considering everyone’s steps are different, this could be a reference that we are lined up in the correct spot after taking the steps.
“From the middle of one branch
Of the v”
Following the 22 step/Moore route you will be standing near the middle of one of the walkways in Prospect Park. And conveniently it is one arm of a “V” shaped sidewalk! These sidewalks are also round bricks like the stones in the window of the pic.
“Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil”
Of all the statues in Concert Grove, most of them are composers. And “Concert” Grove? Sounds like rhapsodic mans soil to me.
“Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.”
An isle is a small island. Directly north of Prospect Park is Belmont Island in the East River. A very small island.
So to sum up, I think we need to dig at the point where we are in line with the Lincoln and Moore statues next to one arm of the V. I could be way off base here but it can’t hurt to throw ideas out there right?
Deuce

I think boogieman interpretted the “V” as Verrazano Bridge itself.  Also, check out the pic of the park boogie posted w/ the bridge behind it….  those sets of supporting beams sure look like giant V’s to me.  Can we stand directly below the bridge to either start the path or actually dig?

The problem with that theory is that there is no one place that could be called
the middle of one branch of the v
.

“whirring”
Noise made by helicopter blades.(?)
The noise from the act of a spinning rapidly.(?)
from the same root as the verb “whirl”.

“Whirring” in this case is an onomatopoeia that is also a double entendre, making it all the more ambiguous.  Whew!

I’ve researched Hunters Point…with Belmont being the Isle…the only thing you find there is the Chrysler building. There doesn’t seem to be anything that fits the image (besides the gargoyle) or the verse.

I found this map of Prospect Park which clearly shows the locations of the statues that were mentioned.
We have another link to Mozart and Beethoven. The paths radiate in a V from Lincoln.
I thought the map was a golf course but it seems it is an unofficial disc golf course whereby frisbees are thrown.
The reviews of Preston Park are interesting as the competitors have problems with the public in the park who return their discs to them not knowing they are playing a golf game.
They also lose their course markers.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=1714&mode=rev
A few reviews containing some useful comments on when best to go to the park.

Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
I’m going to just ask questions here to sound this out.
These last two lines?  Now, they have nothing to do with the gazebo.  Just suppose we found the v, lets say, and in the middle we found the rhapsodic man in the soil, the plaque.  Does simple roots have a new meaning now?  Maybe the inscription telling about JPJ and the flagpole are just
simply put
.  Are we to take 22 EAST steps from the plaque?  WHY EAST AND THEN LOOK NORTH?  Assuming that the Isle of B is Bedloe’s, I’m guessing that we are to be facing north while putting the shovel in the ground.  And if that is the case, it sounds that there should be something that we should be digging up against.  What does OR mean,
or
gaze north?  Where does it fit?

Why is it that just North East of JJP,
across 101st street in the court yards
of some apartments are three gardens
desgined as clock faces?????
I think GAZE is used to point to the
gazebo.  (gazebo north of dig site)
Simple Roots can also mean ‘first generation’
as in ‘father’
edit:
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par … ?monId=525
No mention of JJP on the boulder, but arms and Hamilton.
JJP is only mentioned at the flagpole (dedicated in 1980 – cutting it close)
Need some good ground penetrating radar devices…
I think we are to dig at the JJP boulder.

If we are to follow the verse, you need to spell it out for me ’cause I can’t see the v, or the pole, or simple roots taking us to the boulder.  For me the
Look down
and see
simple roots
in
rhapsodic man’s soil
can only take you to the flagpole.  The plaque has been mounted in the
ground
.  The gazebo is west, way to far west of the plaque to be considered if you want to use the verse.
What better place in the entire area can you look down at the ground and see rhapsodic man?  But, you may use the boulder for the
sign
nearby
.  Where the heck is the boulder?

Try this again: ( Looks southeast of the flagpole)
Forget the
sign nearby
, it doesn’t say Hamilton on it.

Top 10 Movies Set and Filmed in Brooklyn
Saturday Night Fever (1977; dir: John Badham)
Here is a picture that is now viewed largely through the lens of camp, and that’s somewhat unfortunate. Set in a world that is 1977 to the nth degree, it stars John Travolta as Tony Manero, the paint store sales guy who lives for his weekly moment in the sun—or, more accurately, in the glitter-specked glow of the mirror ball—on the dance floor of the Bensonhurst disco, 2001 Odyssey. Based on a New York Magazine article that author Nik Cohn has since admitted was woven out of whole cloth, it still works by refashioning our age-old universal myth of striving into a modern cultural touchstone. Remember when it mattered if you loved or hated Disco? It was filmed throughout Bensonhurst—this el is along 86th Street—and Bay Ridge. The park bench where Tony sits and
rhapsodizes
on the glories of our under-praised Verrazano Narrows Bridge is in John Paul Jones Park. (And, by the way, everything he says about it is true.)
Taken from:
http://gocaribbean.about.com/bltop10movies.htm.htm
It was on the other nite but I only caught the end.  Anyone have the movie?  If she calls him Rhapsodic man in that scene, I’m going on a shooting spree!

I’m
really
liking the Cartier theory, shecrab. Monumental figure in Canadian history… Hard word… Canadian casque… Hmmm…
Speaking of Canada…
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
There is a large island not too far north of Montreal on the river, called Ile
B
ouchard or
B
oucherville Island, depending on what map you consult. Either way, it could be our
isle of B.
How could you see an island that far away by gazing north? One theory might be that you could see it from the top of Mount Royal. I’ve been up there, and the view is wonderful. They even have pull-offs with coin-operated telescopes, if I recall.
Interestingly, there is a cluster of islands much closer to Montreal, most of which make up “Parc des Iles-De-
B
oucherville,” right across from Boucherville, QC.

thank you animal_painter for that post above
boogieman, but the fort didn’t open to the public ’til 1997 and von briesen was german, don’t we think this picture is russian? is there something at south beach, because i remember i was going to check that area, but i must have got sidetracked.
i was  looking over toward long island again, because of “find the arm that extends”, thinking like, the arm gets longer, long island, lol
and “in summer”, ………………vacation, beach
but then, i liked new jersey too, because i think i read where the whole state was divided into squares ( i think it was new jersey…i’ve  been bouncing around everywhich a way again) and that also because i am trying to keep image 9 in mind too for the verse

Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
http://www.nps.gov/fora/forteachers/tho … report.htm
here tom has 3 books of what he found and saw, and he published them that way
was there ever a sign that said this, i dont remember any of the signs, and what they said

slappybuns

boogieman, but the fort didn’t open to the public ’til 1997 and von briesen was german, don’t we think this picture is russian? is there something at south beach, because i remember i was going to check that area, but i must have got sidetracked.
i was  looking over toward long island again, because of “find the arm that extends”, thinking like, the arm gets longer, long island, lol

Slappy, We’ve already confirmed that the entire area is loaded with Russian history.
The fort has been called Fort wadsworth since 1864.  The surrounding neighborhood is also called Fort wadsworth.  Who’s Von Briesen?  I was referring to Fort Wadsworth and Longfellow.    Henry “Wadsworth” Longfellow, from Wikipedia:
Though much of his work is categorized as lyric poetry, Longfellow experimented with many forms, including hexameter and free verse.[59] His published poetry shows great versatility, utilizing anapestic and trochaic forms, blank verse, heroic couplets, ballads and sonnets.[60] Typically, Longfellow would carefully consider the subject of his poetic ideas for a long time before deciding on the right metrical form for it.[61] Much of his work is recognized for its melody-like musicality.[62] As he says, “what a writer asks of his reader is not so much to like as to listen”.[63]
He sounds like a rhapsodic man to me.  And where is South beach?

slappybuns

boogieman, but the fort didn’t open to the public ’til 1997 and von briesen was german, don’t we think this picture is russian? is there something at south beach, because i remember i was going to check that area, but i must have got sidetracked.
i was  looking over toward long island again, because of “find the arm that extends”, thinking like, the arm gets longer, long island, lol

Slappy, We’ve already confirmed that the entire area is loaded with Russian history.
The fort has been called Fort wadsworth since 1864.  The surrounding neighborhood is also called Fort wadsworth.  Who’s Von Briesen?  I was referring to Fort Wadsworth and Longfellow.
Henry
“Wadsworth” Longfellow, from Wikipedia:
Though much of his work is categorized as lyric poetry, Longfellow experimented with many forms, including hexameter and free verse.[59] His published poetry shows great versatility, utilizing anapestic and trochaic forms, blank verse, heroic couplets, ballads and sonnets.[60] Typically, Longfellow would carefully consider the subject of his poetic ideas for a long time before deciding on the right metrical form for it.[61] Much of his work is recognized for its melody-like musicality.[62] As he says, “what a writer asks of his reader is not so much to like as to listen”.[63]
He sounds like a rhapsodic man to me.  And where is South beach?

animal painter

Great find, Slappy!
Even the icy blue color of the sky is similar to image 12…

this is all the arch we need.
I don’t remember how we decided that the Indies native had to be from the West or East indies.  The native american indian sounds good to me.
from maltedfalcon: In 1913, ground was broken by President William Howard Taft for a proposed National American Indian Memorial that was to be built on the site of Fort Tompkins. The monument was to include a 165-foot tall statue of an American Indian on the bluff overlooking the Narrows, but difficulties in fundraising and the advent of World War I precluded fruition of the plan.

boogieman, but the fort didn’t open to the public ’til 1997
Thats true but…
The name “Fort Wadsworth” is also sometimes used to denote the residential neighborhood surrounding the former fort, the neighborhood south of Rosebank, west of Shore Acres and north of South Beach. This neighborhood once had a station on the South Beach Branch of the Staten Island Railway; service on this branch ceased in 1953.

i meant the inner arch in the image with the blocks
von briesen is the park on one side of fort wadsworth.

malted i saw that with fort hamilton, that the area around it is called fort hamilton.
i have been looking at all three areas, new jersey, staten island and brooklyn.
does anyone know where the word “gowanus” comes from? i’m still looking for the definition, but i saw there is a cobble hill around it, which made me think of the image.
around one of the parks i saw a punch road and i can’t remember where it was, it could have been in montreal or anywhere, but i did notice a strange resemblance to image 9 and this guy:
http://www.bridportmuseum.co.uk/bp_imag … udy001.jpg
lol, i’m not sure if i’m serious or not, lol
i’m sure someone has the book of “abroad in america” …is there any reference to “him of Hard word in 3 vols” ?
look at this arch, it is said to be in Park Slope which is close to Prospect Park……..look at the vertical lines and blocks
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/wei … train.html
and just in case that is the arch, thought i’d look up this, and the lady is in the yellow block and so is prospect park….
http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/indcolor.html

No! That!

Any chance the “chicken” referred to in the Japanese version is Charlie Parker? His nickname was Yardbird, or just Bird, and Yardbird is southern slang for chicken and he got the nickname because of how much he liked chicken. I doubt Yardbird has a direct Japanese translation so it would make sense that they just wrote chicken instead. Also Parker has several albums with “Vol. 3” in the title but I don’t know if any of them have anything to do with hard words. Plus if the rhapsodic man referred to in the verse really is George Gershwin then having Parker, another Jazz musician, referenced in the same verse would I guess give the verse somewhat of a theme.

Merlot Brougham

Or Vols stands for “volunteers” and not “volumes”.

Yes! This.

i like that animal painter
,
i tried to find some pictures of it, but mostly just found newer art sculptures so far.
i was going a different route (root), lol
since the picture has 11 o’clock and the verse says “take twice as many east steps as the hour”, i went to e. 22nd street and “gramercy park” is right there, lol
get it?  grammar, hard word, gramercy, lol
i find this interesting at the brooklyn marine park: (close to e. 22nd street brooklyn)
“and the John V. Lindsay Model Airport was dedicated in 1971.”  for the “whirring”
and this:
“and of Lenape Playground at Avenue U. “
there is an avenue “V” also……..gonna go look some more

Unknown

Unknown:
since the picture has 11 o’clock and the verse says “take twice as many east steps as the hour”, i went to e. 22nd street and “grammercy park” is right there, lol
get it?  grammar, hard word, grammercy, lol

I am doing a bit of research on Nelson
Rock
efeller…since there is
a park named after him “in the shadow of the grey giant”.
There is a 3-volume book entitled: “Transactions of the Rockefeller Family Association”…
AP

Oooo, good!
Him of hard word
may be “that rocky feller.” How very punny.

I have been looking for an hour and can’t find when Rockefeller Park opened in Battery Park City.  Construction started on the World Financial Center in the fall of 81′ and the park is just to the north of there.  The land was all created by the construction of the WTC in 73′ but there are no dates, that I can find, on the park itself.
I still think we are at the Narrows but we’ve got to check everything.  BTW, there’s another Rockerfeller Park within the Cleveland Cultural Gardens.  Can we run in circles or what?

MERLIN

The “Grey Giant” is Belvedere Castle in Central Park.

Could be Merlin, good idea. I think it’s Fort Wadsworth.

MERLIN

The “Grey Giant” is Belvedere Castle in Central Park.

it could be, but then you need to explain the “in the shadow of”
is that an actual description or a metaphor
and regardless, then if an object in Central park is your clue
you somehow need to get of the park to find the casque location since we know it is not in central park.

Like malted said, BP stated that there wasn’t a casque in Central Park but I suppose the verse could start there and take you to a different park

Unknown

Unknown:
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.

A vexing little snippet.  The text reads “vols.” — and we’ve assumed it means volumes, as in books in a series.  Are we reading it correctly?  Could it mean something else?
* Volunteers?
* Volumes in the auditory sense — soft, medium, loud?  This clue certainly goes to 11.
* Maybe it’s a non-literal suggestion, such as three Roman numerals that follow the man’s name, like Rockefeller I, Rockefeller II, Rockefeller III — which could be described cryptically as three volumes.
Things that make you stroke your chin in contemplation.

In the shadow
I recently learned of a story by Hans Christian Andersen titled “The Shadow”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shado … ry_tale%29
It’s an interesting and strange story that explores the power of Evil over Good. The Shadow is described in one example of having been all over the entire world and seen everything. Sounds like an example of a “grey giant”, (meaning: this isn’t the exclusive case). It could be the first two lines are designed to warm us up to an HCA type of investigation such as the symbolic connection of Image 9’s hands to the Littler Mermaid/”steeples” in the first sentence literary source, which results in a context driven practical discovery of the mermaid type statue on Douglas Brown’s isle at Stanley Park.
Also, I recently purchased a book from Amazon, Hans Christian Andersen: The Story of His Life and Work by Elias Bredsdorff (1975) in which I discovered lots of good photographs and sketches, which could concievably be a prototype for the squashed oval head in Image 9. There’s also a chapter about HCA’s two visits to London in 1847 and 1857 where he was invited to several dinner parties including one at the home of Lord and Lady Stanley.

lol, boogieman!
but i didn’t know what “PATH” meant, do you think BP did?

Here is a list of islands in the New York archipelago that I have compilied from various sources.  I believe it is thorough and comprehensive, meaning that just about all of the islands in and around New York Harbor have been accounted for:
New York County:  Manhattan.  Upper Bay Islands: Ellis Island, Governors Island, Liberty Island.
East River Islands:  Mill Rock Island, Randall’s island, Roosevelt Island, U Thant Island, Ward’s island.
Bronx County:The Blauzes, Pelham Islands,Chimney Sweeps Islands, City Island, Hart island, Hunters Island, Rat Island, Travers Island, Twin Island, North Brother Island,  South Brother Island, Rikers Island.
Queens County: Long Island, Jamaica Bay Islands, Rulers Bar Hassock
Kings County: Long Island, Jamaica Bay Islands
Richmond County: Staten Island, Hoffman Island, Isle of Meadows, Prall’s Island, Shooters Island, Swinburne Island.
New Jersey: Robbins Reef, Plum Island
As you can determine, only one set of Islands, The Blauzes, begins with “B” ( and maybe North Brother Island). The Blauzes cannot be seen from the ground near the Verrazano Narrows bridge. (or even from on the bridge)
My conclusions are these: Maybe the “Isle of B” is not an island at all, but something else, another double entendre or clever play on words describing another object near JPJ park.  It is also obvious to me that you cannot look north for an “Isle of B” from JPJ park, because there is no Island that begins with “B” that you can see, even if you are on the VN Bridge.  My most radical conclusion: Perhaps JPJ Park is not where the cask is buried, and the “Grey Giant” is not the VN Bridge.  This is also evidenced by the fact that no one has been able to locate an exact match of the “Russian Church” in Image 12 anywhere around Brooklyn or nearby the VN Bridge.

Has anyone ever considered the fact that this p. may only represent New York STATE and not necessarily the CITY of New York?
I have a pretty good reason for thinking this:  there isnt’ a “box” of latitude/longitude numbers in this P. There is only actually ONE number visible that I can see–74–but it could also be loosely seen as 79 (I’m looking at a high-res image. It could be either one.)  Both numbers are longitudes in New York State, 79 on the western side and of course, 74 on the east.
However, 74 (if it is) runs north through the Adironack Mountains. 79 runs right through Niagara Falls. And if it is a 79, then Niagara Falls could very easily adapt to this p.

I had been thinking all along that the grey giant was tower two at the WTC.  In the shadows was the arm that extended over the slender path (Verrazano and narrows inlet).  The isle of B is, was, could be, Liberty island, once known as Bedloe’s island which is directly north of the Verrazano.
A couple of days ago I told Slappy why the Narrows was called the narrows.  That is still a fact.  BUT….While the Hudson Bay becomes the Narrows to the south, to the north it splits into two rivers, The Huson River and The East River.  Can these two rivers be considered ARMS of the Bay?  If we can do that, and I’m gonna get shot for this by Slappy who brought this up months ago, then the Hudson River may be the arm that extends over the slender PATH trains.  Two tunnels cross under the Hudson River from NJ.  One of them went directly under the WTC and still travels into ground zero today.
In the
shadow of.
This could take us back to the church I found in Paulus Hook in downtown Jersey City close to the river.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7355435@N04/801373514/
And the tower behind it looks familiar.  Like it belongs right next to it in image12. But that might douse my grey giant idea.
EDIT:  shut up Fox

Rethinking as I jump around randomly…can industrial pipes channeling water in the ground be analogous to a plant’s roots?

id say no.
especially if they werent buried.

In the shadow
Of the grey giant
A possibly elegant interpretation might be the fact that the Amphitheater in Stanley Park is called the Marion Malkin Memorial Bowl after the wife of W.H. Malkin who was Mayor in 1929 at the time when Point Grey was absorbed into Vancouver jurisdiction.  The title of Mayor means “greater, great, or superior”.  I wonder if that could be taken to mean “giant” which is slightly different, but “greater” than small, much greater.  The “grey giant” then makes use of a word for color as a place name, similar to how he uses “white” as a reference to a map in Roanoke.  I feel like this is a compelling, simple, and elegant fit.  Not obscure at all in terms of “what is this giant theater called: Malkin, eh?” “who was Malkin:  Mayor in the late 20’s, eh?”  “what’s that, Point Grey became part of Vancouver, eh, that’s cool…hmm…Grey…Great…Giant…Mayor…Great..ah, grey giant”.

in rhapsodic man’s soil
I think this line presents an interesting wrinkle. Its easy to think “Rhapsody in Blue” -> Gershwinn -> New York. Isn’t it also possible to consider “Bohemian Rhapsody” -> Queen -> a man representing the Queen of England -> Canadian? Or is it possible this is a Shakespearian reference from the shores of Bohemian settings as The Tempest or A Winter’s Tale?

What might be meant by saying “In Shakespeare’s soil”? Would it make sense for Preiss to build in a clue which would be clear only to those well versed in Shakespeare?

well, it looks as if the v is gone now. Ill be out that way in June sometime and try to make a stop there. All of Shore Road park seems to have been excavated.

boogieman

If you want to go dig it up, go to Hamilton high School in Brooklyn. Find the steps going down into Shore park. They are
directly across the street from the school. When you get to the bottom, go left until you are directly in front of the entrance to the school. You’ll be looking uphill at it and you will see the clock. You’ll find yourself standing at the v. Bedloe’s Island and the Statue of Liberty are to the North. Have fun.

From the photos of the front of the school on Google Maps, it appears that the clock is not an exact match. All of the numbers are on the clock on the school, but only 4 numbers are on the clock in the image. Also, the hands of the clock are different. Did the clock used to look differently than today?

boogieman

Nobody wants to come with me. They all think i’m nuts.
It may take a few stabs at the dirt. If Fox comes back out to NY again I’ll go, but not until. Meanwhile, feel free to go. It’s there.

Well damn…I sure wish I could get back out that way any time in the future. Not looking too good. So you gave up on JPJ?

How possible is it for you to go poke around or at least explore & take pics of the area Boogie?  Maybe we too can experience a Christmas miracle and unearth another one of these casques.

@boogieman:
Meh.  It would make more sense if something else was the gray giant.  If BP was referring to the WTC, he probably would have said giant
s
.
Of course, if the casque really is buried in JPJ park, it doesn’t matter what the giant is.  But since there hasn’t been much progress here… it’s worth it to reexamine some basic assumptions.

I’ve said this before, but the “grey giant” could be the
entire city
. Visible from the harbor, or another off-manhattan location. Or perhaps East or West of said city–because he does say “in the shadow of the grey giant.” That would mean to me that it was either west of the city when the sun rose or east when the sun set.  It seems rather silly to say ‘grey giant’ about only one building in a city full of ‘grey giants.’

“It must have been cold there in my shadow,
To never have sunlight on your face”
Do you think Bette Midler was trying to say that she was too fat, blocking the sun from her sisters face?  Or that she was just more famous and stood out bigger and brighter than her sister?  I don’t think she had wings either…
I’m saying that the Verrazano looked tiny when looked upon from Tower Two.  The WTC was far more famous than the bridge.  And that has to be the building in Image12.

@ choice – yep

Hi Karleen, If it’s not too much trouble pls post a couple of hi-res scans or links to the images you have. The image I have from Wiki doesn’t show most of the stuff you’re referring to.

Choice

Hi Karleen, If it’s not too much trouble pls post a couple of hi-res scans or links to the images you have. The image I have from Wiki doesn’t show most of the stuff you’re referring to.

pmed you

I didn’t get any PM’s. Must’ve gone to the PM heaven in the clouds.
Perhaps you should post the links on the board so others may benefit from them too.

ohhhhhhhhhh i’m just louder than you!  i honestly missed it when you said it!
boogieman?  what do you think?

there is the “step” street between colonial road and ridge road that goes straight to owls head park.
very last picture:
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … steps.html
here’s more on the 3rd volunteers:
http://www.ct.gov/mil/cwp/view.asp?a=1351&q=271184
athena (if that is who our image is of) is often pictured with an
OWL
on her shoulder
okay, back to confusion…the russian passage mentioned steppes, marches, rose up (rebellion?):
marches:
the area on each side of a border between two regions or countries, especially between England and Wales
makes ya think of the canada one…..
or maybe, just “3rd” month, linking russian with verse….
happy valentine’s day to everyone!!  i got some power tools!  i’m so happy!  but it’s gonna take me away from the hunt quite a bit!

slappybuns

this was Bliss’s land………….couldn’t
bliss
be
rhapsodic
?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes they both are like ecstasy!
what do you think WhiteRabbit!???

I think it’s brilliant! Sheer genius! Even suggested it myself.  😉

i sure hope you guys find one!! that would be sooooooo sweet!
i think you’re right about the WTC building and the bridge!
i’m not likely to be able to go on any hunts, so i’m living vicariously through you guys!
you  are so patient! call in sick! lol
crossing my fingers!!!

This is what has convinced me that we are in the right place for v10.  I think BP had only one tower in image12 because if he had two, it would have given it away.  And I mean the day the book came out.  By putting one tower there, he caused at least 29 pages and 6+ years of discussion in this forum alone.
My employers owned the WTC.  I’ve been there a million times.  Saw that view hundreds of times.
Look at the photo above and read the first four lines of V10.  Can I hear a loud Eureka?
It was from here that I tried to piece it all together.  Indies native Hamilton right there on Brooklyn soil.  John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin) and Brooklyn born Gerschwin (Rhapsody In Blue) are both Rhapsodic men.  The tall rectangular shape in image12, Tower Two, the only of the two that had an observation deck on top.  The face of the Statue of Liberty, she sits due north of the Verrazano.  Like we all have said, you can squeeze anything into anything if you want to.  This just feels too good.
edit: anytime in April is good for me!

Are you sure?  I have safety vests and hard hats for everyone!

I’ll be entering my third trimester in April so I won’t be doing any digging…. but I would like to join you for moral support. Let me know the date/ time.
Shseverin11

shseverin11

I’ll be entering my third trimester in April so I won’t be doing any digging…. but I would like to join you for moral support. Let me know the date/ time.

Congrats!
Future treasure creator.

Shecrab,
I am not really convinced of the reference to Woody Guthrie
as “him of Hard word”…I’m just trying to determine if we are looking
for a specific visual confirmer…like a sign…or a general area clue..
like Brooklyn.
The sign for Ft. Hamilton is mentioned just before this in the verse,
so it may be that the next line of the verse would be for another sign,
like Jackson Ct….
Stone
wall.
I see three trees of interest in this area
The tree in JPJ Park, by Jackson Ct….
The tree in Shore Rd. Park at about 73rd St. that is more secluded….
And the tree along Belt Parkway…in the shadow of the Verrazano Bridge.

Just for the hell of it, lets say that we did not take that 2nd hand email about there being no casque in Central park so seriously…Where would a possible dig spot or significant clues be?

Original molds of GA Lawson’s Robert Burns of Ayr were used to cast the Halifax statue in 1919 and Vancouver in 1928. Replicas followed were in Montreal 1930 and Winnipeg 1936. So that’s 4 statues, not 3. I wonder if there’s any chance Preiss was only aware of 3 of the statues. I found a book on Burns and Transatlantic Culture (2012) that has a chapter “A tale of three monuments” talking only about Halifax, Vancouver and Montreal.
One of the plaque panels of the Burns sculpture has the word “grey” for a quote of the poem Tam O’Shanter about the horse that gets it’s tail tore off.

What book? Was it in 3 vol.? Why make a misdirect at all if these are hard enough as is? A midirect just wouldn’t be expected in the form of an obscure reference.
I don’t mind thinking the Hard word is a Warren G
Harding
clue. Such a clue would be best represented by the monument with three etched granite blocks of his speech to Canada in Stanley Park. If it’s not the monument then it could be a date clue for the time remembered by natives when
Harding
was president, 1921-1923. It was a monumental event when he was the first president to visit Canada, and his last, because he died on his return after making the speech and playing golf.
http://www.canadashistory.ca/Explore/Po … Last-Stand
Stanley Park is very tough to find any strong clues in. I’ve found a few over-tailored landmarks, but nothing to really contend with Montreal’s accidental legeater. No other clue has been stronger than that visual from what’s ever been brought to our attention in these boards. People act way to sure of themselves about anything. I have been stuck on Stanley Park ideas for a long time as well. That is why I’m trying to explore the deeper more sustainable notions based on the LotJ or Lowland Gnome perspective.
Is the H in Hard really a Halifax clue? I’m barely scratching the surface there.
I really don’t see any evidence or poignancy to policy with Latin America as a way to establish a Canadian puzzle. You seem to be off track, Josh.

What book? Was it in 3 vol.? Why make a misdirect at all if these are hard enough as is? A midirect just wouldn’t be expected in the form of an obscure reference.
I don’t mind thinking the Hard word is a Warren G Harding clue. Such a clue would be best represented by the monument with three etched granite blocks of his speech to Canada in Stanley Park. If it’s not the monument then it could be a date clue for the time remembered by natives when Harding was president, 1921-1923. It was a monumental event when he was the first president to visit Canada, and his last, because he died on his return after making the speech and playing golf.
http://www.canadashistory.ca/Explore/Po … Last-Stand
Stanley Park is very tough to find any strong clues in. I’ve found a few over-tailored landmarks, but nothing to really contend with Montreal’s accidental legeater. No other clue has been stronger than that visual from what’s ever been brought to our attention in these boards. People act way to sure of themselves about anything. I have been stuck on Stanley Park ideas for a long time as well. That is why I’m trying to explore the deeper more sustainable notions based on the LotJ or Lowland Gnome perspective.
Is the H in Hard really a Halifax clue? I’m barely scratching the surface there.
I really don’t see any evidence or poignancy to policy with Latin America as a way to establish a Canadian puzzle. You seem to be off track, Josh.

Acrostic jumble play:
O YE TO OFFICIAL STATION

cw0909,
We still have to drive over the Verrazano-Narrows bridge, where we see
the signs for Fort Hamilton and the Ft. Hamilton Parkway.
What other “isle of B” is under consideration at this time?
AP

apples and oranges

From Answers.com
is the Bronx an island?
No. The Bronx is the only New York City borough that is not an island, or part of an island. The borough of Manhattan and the borough of Staten Island are both islands, and the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens are located on the western end of Long Island. The Bronx is the only New York City borough that is attached to the mainland of New York State.

Thanks Malted.
The Bronx as a whole is definitely not an island.
Googling , I came up with “City Island”, which is considered
part
of the Bronx.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Island,_Bronx
It could be an oblique reference…
Due South of City Island, are Little Bay Park and Fort Totten Park.
Fort Totten is the shape of a “v” right on the shoreline…
http://www.forttotten.org/

animal painter

Thanks Malted.
The Bronx as a whole is definitely not an island.
Googling , I came up with “City Island”, which is considered
part
of the Bronx.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Island,_Bronx
It could be an oblique reference…
Due South of City Island, are Little Bay Park and Fort Totten Park.
Fort Totten is the shape of a “v” right on the shoreline…
http://www.forttotten.org/

hi ap is there anything connecting alexander hamilton to those parks
AH is the only indies native, ive found connected to ney york
Alexander Hamilton was born in Charlestown, the capital of the island of Nevis in the British West Indies. He was born out of wedlock to Rachel Faucett Lavien, of partial French Huguenot descent, and James A. Hamilton,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton
i looked didnt see anything about AH there

thanks cw!! i’ve got them on my desktop now! lol
i still haven’t retrieved my notes for when my computer crashed either
if someone could scan page 221 and 222 i would really really appreciate it! mine is torn and the pieces are missing and i would like to start over with my fairy folks’ notes.  please!

boogieman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Do645Qv … re=related

Thanks for the video Boogie…
If you watch timeframe  3:54 to 4:15  it supports that from Prospect Park you would likely to have only seen one tower.

I have to admit, Fort Hamilton looks
reeeeal
good, better even than Battery Park once did. The passages from Hamilton are just as obscure as the quote from
Pierre
, and both are much more obscure than the references from
Treasure Island
in V6. On the other hand, maybe that quote from
Pierre
may not be so obscure, since it it is one of eleven quotes from
Pierre
for the
wikiquote
entry for Herman Melville.
No sign at Fort Hamilton needs to proclaim Hamilton an Indies native, but if you’re right about the Fort, then a sign
somewhere
should at least have mentioned how the fort got its name.

The “Hard word” bit still bugs me. What does it mean?
There is a recent movie called “The Hard Word,” and in reference to its title, one IMDB readers says, “Putting the hard word on someone means intimidating them, scaring them, or making them do something they dont want to do… like ‘why dont you put the hard word on him?'”

forest_blight

The “Hard word” bit still bugs me. What does it mean?

I hear ya on that one.   Interesting thoughts on Hard word FB.  But how can you intimidate or scare someone in 3 vols.?  Some more to chew on I guess.  I’ve been trying to link Hard word as something etched or stamped into rock or monuments.  Still though, 3 vols?
Also…  We know Gershwin (rhapsodic man’s soil) was a New yorker, but I don’t think it was mentioned that he was born in Brooklyn, where Fort Hamilton and the Verrazano are.  Thought I’d throw that into the pot.

What really bugs me is the fact that “Hard” is capitalized. In normal speech, when we say “hard word,” we usually mean a word that is difficult to either spell or pronounce (as in, “circumambulation is a hard word”). But capitalizing it is odd. I don’t like the Harding explanation because I can’t see why anyone would describe Harding as “him of Hard word.” It’s just an odd way to express “Harding,” riddle or no. Doesn’t seem like something BP would consider clever or obfuscatory (there’s another hard word for you!).

Hmmm.. “of him of Hard word”.  If we ARE talking about Hamilton here, can this be interpreted as The Natives still speak of this man of hard words, which he published in 3 vols?
I found this:
His “Observations on Certain Documents” (Philadelphia, 1797) was republished in New York in 1865. In 1798 he defended in the newspapers the policy of increasing the army. His “Works,” comprising the “Federalist,” his most important official reports, and other writings, were published in three volumes (New York
at
http://www.john-adams.org/alexanderHamilton.org/
edit: Hard, meaning
official
maybe.

Boogie, we may be onto something here. From Hamilton’s “Works” (in, as you said, three volumes), both dating to 1797:
“But I confess, I have not been well satisfied with the answer reported in the House. It contains too many hard expressions; and
hard words
are very rarely useful in public proceedings. Mr. Jay and other friends here have been struck in the same manner with myself. We shall not regret to see the answer softened down.
Real firmness
is good for every thing.
Strut
is good for nothing.”
The italics are in the original. Here’s the other passage:
“I received your letter of the ———. Though I do not like in some respects the answer of the House to the speech, yet I frankly own that I had no objection to see it softened down. For I think there is no use in
hard words
—and in public proceedings would almost always unite the
suaviter in modo
with the
fortiter in re
.”
Again, italics in the original. Why would Hamilton italicize
hard words
? Does he mean it as a euphemism for stern language?

and “if that were the case”
it supports Fort Hamilton.
(as a location)
I wonder what the sign there saids….
Now if someone could find a sign
that saids… “Alexander Hamilton, born in the West Indies, ….”
that would be great

Wow! Nice work FB.  Although I have seen better examples of coincidence in other verses that have not panned out, it is still quite striking that those words are italicized in the original “works”.  Did BP expect us to find this in a library back in 82′?  I’m about 40 minutes from there.  I’ll have to find some time real soon and scope it out.
Well, we’ve been down this road before. And it’s still exciting.  Let’s keep our fingers crossed.
edit: Not meant to confuse, but just found this, in the shadow of the grey giant, you’ll often hear a whirring sound;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hc916/270850778/
Arm over slender path, railroad tracks and foot bridge.

Nice work WR.
I just finished looking over the map of England.  I see the Isle of Wight is right outside the windows of Lymington where Burrard was buried.  I am only assuming he was born, raised, or otherwise associated with that area along the coast of the Isle.  It still feels like a stretch, but it seems good enough to support the Isle of B[urrard] notion, although there is no such place, the relational elements play out.
One other thing to note is that this particular Burrard was at the Siege of Charleston in 1780.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bkln_ … er_jeh.JPG
http://www.flickr.com/photos/left-unins … 361476805/
i like the shadow of wings
cadman plaza park and walt whitman park is right beside it….
or could she be representing the goddess columbia, notre dame or just freedom (liberty park)…..or just that she is suspended in the air like the verrazano bridge and its right under it
or does the big shadow on her nose mean sunset  (park, or morningside)…
summer—june 21st…………..6 month,  21 day………6th street, 21st  street? or beach, shore

i was thinking ,john paul jones led zeppelin, or john paul jones revolutionary war,maybe the face in the robe
looking for a early pic of JPJ LZ, and pics of JPJ of rev war
TY ap
forgot to link JPJ rev war
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/revolution … -jones.htm

just some info
The reclamation of Narrows Botanical Gardens is an example of an important recent trend in park management: community involvement. These gardens have been improved as a result of the sustained efforts of many concerned local residents.
Narrows Botanical Gardens
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/shorer … ghts/11223
Shore Road Parks Conservancy
http://www.shoreroadparks.org/aboutus.html
Shore Road Parks Conservancy is on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/shoreroad
http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/membre_g … s-4843.jpg
http://www.navysna.org/awards/Award%20P … _Jones.jpg
the park is JPJ——
The granite shaft by Sir Ashton Webb was a gift from England after World War I. These tributes to United States military history ushered in the 1969 name change to John Paul Jones Park.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/johnpa … ghts/11908
As an officer of the Continental Navy of the American Revolution, John Paul Jones helped establish the traditions of courage and professionalism that the Sailors of the United States Navy today proudly maintain. John Paul was born in a humble gardener’s cottage in Kirkbean, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/jones_jp.htm
Life of John Paul Jones
http://www.jpj.demon.co.uk/jpjlife.htm

It has always been my contention that
In the shadow
of the grey giant
find the arm that extends
over the slender path
means that the rectangular structure in the window of image12 in One WTC where the observation deck was.  In the shadow of the Trade Center, find the bridge that extends over the Narrows Inlet.  This is the Verrazano, which is blue.  The trade center was grey.
In summer, you will often hear a whirring sound.  Cars above you, around you, coming and going.  The bridge, the Belt Prkwy.  The whirring sound???  Cruising boats, fishing poles.  Could be anything.  Lots of noise under the bridge during the summer.
Indies native?  Hamilton.  Still speaking natives?  Your guess is as good as mine.
The Narrows Inlet is what got us to the Verrazano.  The rest of the verse gets us to the X.  We must be near the signs for Fort hamilton, IMO, and standing by the v.  The all elusive v.  I love what is being talked about here.  Shore park, the steps being the v and all.  And the Isle of B is almost 100% Liberty Island for me.  Bedloe’s.  You can draw a straight line from north to south and cross both liberty island and the coast of the narrows, including Shore Park and JPJ Park.  And the other side too, Staten Island.
Taking a stroll along the Narrows may just be what is needed here.  I will be there as soon as I can.

u know me boogieman, just throwing stuff out there, hoping something helps you
i had thought the “whirring” noise was the ferries, but i mostly think (when i think of it)  “whirring” as fans, like madison square garden or, a sport arena, or something like that….i keep going all over the place, so not much help to you, but maybe these guys will really make something click for you, fresh eyes

If you Google on “helicopter, Statue of Liberty” you will see
that there are
multiple
helicopter tour companies which include the
Statue of Liberty in their tours.  That is a definite
whirring
sound.
AP

well by your own logic that would not work
as it would be 3 people in three separate volumes
Where the line specifically states him in 3 vols. singular, not them.
so I don’t think that works.

It’s still strange that the word Hard is capitalized.  I think it looks very ambiguous whether the “him” of Hard word is the person(s) transformed, the target of the Hard word or the person speaking the Hard word.  In that sense, the logic affecting 3 separate people should work.
Here’s the plaque:
Q’uas spoke the Hard word’s in this case.
maltedfalcon, on a similar note, I’ve had trouble finding that wall plaque at the Palace of the Legion of Honor.  I think you confirmed that there were the words “Spreckles sugar fortune” on it?  Could you dig that up (again) please?  Search function hasn’t been working very well for me on these forums lately.

Sorry trohn, you say the bridge is the grey giant, and that’s how you get to the cannon.
I’m easily confused. LOL
I will dig into that theory, honestly.  But first you’ve got to find something in an image that would show a bridge.  it doesn’t
have to be P12.  I’ll take anything.  But P12 does have a grey giant, and a place in it’s shadow where you can see an arm extending over the slender path.
Forgive me for rambling on about this but it’s the only way I can figure to keep it fresh.  And this thread doesn’t end so i can keep going on and on and on and on.

In the middle of this image is an X shape almost resembling some kind of knotwork or weaving.

LOL. Found a way to twist east to west.  Laugh if you will!
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
The beginning of the verse gets you to the bridge.
Once there, you read this section above.
You are taking twice as many east steps
from
the X spot to the Fort gate.(where I hope there is a sign)
So, you’re at the gate just under one branch of the v.
Or more
, if you were on top of the bridge, you would
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil (JPJ Park)
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
But you are under it, so reverse the 22 steps and go west from the gate.
And at the edge of the park, you should see whatever that thing was
that was in the center of the pic I posted. (where those benches were.)
Trohn, I have a hard time using the cannon to be the arm that extends.
How would the verse get you to the cannon if it didn’t first get you to the bridge?
Better yet, how would the verse get you to the bridge if the cannon was the arm?
Another thought, maybe BP was sitting on these benches in N.C. and Brooklyn
while pondering these verses…….Any benches from Chicago and Cleveland?
Duh! They are parks.

Nice pic boogieman.
* * * * *
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
“…from the East, from the Far Marches, from the wide snowy Steppes and boundless fertile plains of Russia…across the winter prairie to the Black Sea shore…” (p15)

WhiteRabbit,
The verse does seem to lead us to Brooklyn.
Shore Rd. Park is still a favorite…especially with its “v” which
has “steps” starting halfway along each side.
The definitions of the “grey giant” and the “isle of B” will help
narrow the possibilities.
The “grey giant”…
Is it the Verrazano bridge or the Statue of Liberty or the UN Building?
It would make sense for it to be the bridge…since it is a double layer
road where cars “abound”.
The “isle of B”…
Bedloes, Blackwell’s, Buchanan or Belmont?
Identifying  the “isle of B” which we are to gaze toward, would also
help us, by allowing us to look South of it to find the casque location.
The thing that gets me, is the use of so many Manhattan visual clues
in image 12.  If BP just wanted to let us know that he was referring to
New York City, he could easily have used one building, as he did in
Milwaukee.  But he used even more detailed visual clues, like the
bear on the Delacourt Clock and the statue pose of “Alice in Wonderland”,
both in Central Park…the Chrysler Building gargoyle…and possibly
the Ralph Bunche obelisk.
We need a visual clue for Brooklyn…close to the casque location.
At this time,  the “tree-in-the-robe-folds” may be our only close-by clue.

(…yeah, it’s like New Orleans, where there seem to be plausible clues for widely separated landmarks such as Lafayette Square, Storyland and Preservation Hall. The solved Grecian image seemed to present a pretty clear indication to the location. I’ve been thinking of the grey giant as the bridge, but I guess it could well be Liberty. I like that the picture seems to show Liberty, though I haven’t looked at the UN Building yet. Didn’t mean to sound opposed to investigating alternatives, since it could still be anywhere…)

…it’s just a crazy idea, but here it is anyway. I was experimenting with a map of the image which included the Verrazano area and the bear in Central Park. Here I’ve circled the bear and the Shore Road Park area, and stuck the flower in the
Brooklyn Botanic Garden
. (Looking at it this way, the bridge could be the belt.)
I also did a search for Webster (as one of the old suggestions for him of Hard word) and turned up nearby Webster Place…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88058079@N00/284932846/
This is the photo that I saw a few years ago that lead me to believe that the grey giant was Two WTC,  that the Narrows was the slender path.  This photo was taken from the observation deck in the mid 80’s.  I had to use the word “shadow” as a metaphor to make it work, the real shadow went east to west where as the bridge is south.  The one thing missing from this photo that I would like to see is Battery park.  That is the southern tip of Manhattan and would be in the picture if it were a tad bigger.  I am sad, in more ways then one, that that observation deck is no longer there.
Look at the picture and recite the verse to yourselves and see if you can see what I saw.

reading this today made me think the “grey giant” was a tower or a lighthouse
The shining tower rose out of the water like a grey giant, warning the tiny … “Let him do his own thing lads, this is no ordinary horse,” Mickey concluded. …. Ballynaul, Mister mister and the Bony Boy put it up to the judge
not sure if this guy wrote that, but just found scottish ballads by james “semple”…………strange huh
simple roots….

I dont know if it really is a tower.  But it is something big.  Whether it be the WTC, or the Statue of liberty, you can see the entire landscape of our treasure area from the top of either of them in 1981.  Which too me, leaves Battery Park or Brooklyn Bay Ridge area.  Hamilton is found at both sites.  Rhapsodic man may not be.

What if “Toward the isle of B.” is more of an implication or result of coming from the isle of A. as in moving from point A to point B?

Or, suppose B is simply short for Bird, then the isle of “bird” might be a “nest”, or some place that shelters eggs…
a basket perhaps? So, “towards the isle of bird” could concievably mean “towards the basket of a basketball court” for example.

No, it could not mean that.

Xieish

No, it could not mean that.

It probably doesnt, but the point is that it could given the right environment. The verse doesnt really support anything about Birds, and Birds shouldnt be a proper noun…so I was just exercising an example to challenge the type of process that could be in play.
I’m thinking again about a Shakespeare possibility. Its possible the B. relates to a character in a play. I’ll need to develop that idea.

forest_blight

Oh goodness, an onion dome. This is almost too much! Still, it’s one dome too few…

I am not entirely sure that we need to find all three in one spot. Consider the castle in the box on the Boston image. At the end of the day, though, the only possibility for v10 being windsor is i12. And i12 pretty clearly has a 41/74. While the considerations and coorelations are fun, I am HIGHLY doubtful that this verse is Windsor.

Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
approximately 22 driveways east of the main VIA branch (the v) in windsor, just past a alexander park (see woman’s neck), and due south, is chopin park. due north is belle isle.
alternatively, there are opposite running via tracks running next to each other on the north border of chopin.
alternatively, next door to the via branch is the worlds biggest parking lot and an onion dome church on Drouillard and Cadillac St.
– here’s the Cadillac St. side –
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=298+Walker+Rd,+Windsor,+ON+N8Y+2M9,+Canada&daddr=Riverside+Dr+E&hl=en≪=42.326441,-83.002208&spn=0.000466,0.000698&sll=42.322985,-82.993255&sspn=0.020973,0.044675&geocode=FYHYhQIdPmAN-ylxh9KGuSw7iDHP_GyXCssNhQ%3BFRbdhQId5L4N-w&t=h&mra=mrv&z=21&layer=c&cbll=42.326441,-83.002208&panoid=0oBoKuVMnvm-lS9zfpo0Xg&cbp=12,235.41,,0,-13.45
– check out the backyard on aerial (circle in park)
the woman at the Soldiers’ and Sailors’ Monument is has an arm extended toward Cadillac sq. Take that to Cadillac St. and end up in Cadillac park… phew… cars abound.

Oh goodness, an onion dome. This is almost too much! Still, it’s one dome too few…

I really like where G Allen was going with this but know Central Park was ruled out. Please see my earlier post about Image 12 and share your thoughts.

I’ve been trying to find time to get to my location before posting these items, but it looks as if I’m not going to make it. So, in the spirit of the hunt, I’ve decided to post what I believe is a solution for Verse 10, which I have paired up with Image 2.
I believe the location may be in Niagara Falls, Canada.
Here’s the breakdown:
In the shadow of the grey giant:
on the Western side of Horseshoe Falls (the grey giant) itself–i.e. the Canadian side. I said the Western side because as the sun rises, the shadow would fall in the west.
Find the arm that extends over the slender path
: could be a bridge (there are two) or the “arm” of the New York State Observation tower which extends over the path below.
In summer you’ll often hear a whirring sound
: Helicopters. Of course. the ones that fly over the falls. They fly in summer only.
Cars abound
: Very true–they do, at the lookout point. This could be the parking lot he is talking about.
Althought the sign nearby speaks of Indies native
: There is indeed a sign about an Indies native nearby: the native is Jose Maria Heredia, an epic poet from Cuba who wrote a poem called “Niagara.”.
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols:
This refers to Jacques Cartier. Him of “hard” word: Cartier is also a well-known diamond merchant, and diamonds are the hardest substance known. So “hard word” becomes diamond word, becomes Cartier. It is well-known that Jacques Cartier explored the area and probably even named the falls and the river.
3 Vols—I had a ‘hard’ (heh) time with this one, then I discovered that the word VOLS is French (as was Cartier) for “FLIGHTS”. Vols, therefore, are not books or quantities, they are
flights
. Flights are either steps, stairs, or trips–and Cartier made THREE TRIPS to Niagara, three trips to the new world. “The Natives still speak of him.” They do indeed. He’s written in all their history and literature. It was the most important and significant thing that happened in that region ever.
Take twice as many steps as the hour or more
:  The hour in image 2 is 4. But this could also refer to the huge floral CLOCK that is predominate at the Falls. It isn’t specific because it appends the words “or more.” So this could be either steps or hours.
From the middle of one branch of the v:  The V being the Queen VICTORIA parkway, which splits into two branches and runs right past the falls.
Look down and see simple roots:
Look down and see–roots–
ancestors
.
In rhapsodic man’s soil:
“Rhapsodic can refer to music, but it can also refer to Epic Poetry. See the entry above for Jose Maria Heredia. An epic poet.
http://www.mith2.umd.edu/summit/Proceedings/Luciani.htm
Perhaps this is talking about the soil around the falls itself–or something else…this was one of the things I wanted to try to find out when I went there.
Or gaze north toward the isle of B:
There are two ‘isles of B’ in the area, one of which is predominately near the Table Rock location and another nearby.  Again, without being there and being able to orient myself, it was difficult to know which was being referred to.
Now, these verses I believe fit with Image 2. The mask forehead is a good representation of the Grand Isle and the Niagara River. The “Butterfly fairy” speaks of (a) the Butterfly Sanctuary nearby at the Park, and (b) the pattern on her wings look a great deal like the strange ‘Spanish aero-cart’ that spans the falls–it has a wheel-like structure on its top that resembles the spots.  This may also be a reference to the ‘whirring’ sound. The latitude and longitude place you almost exactly there: 43W, -79N.  The arms of the fairy look like the bridge. The pear is representative of the largest cash crop in the area; Niagara is known for it’s pear wine. The clock mask refers to the floral clock, the “hour” of the verse, and it also shows a star on one side and three stripes, red white and blue, on the other–the two
sides
of the river: Canadian and American. The
star
may be the casque location–on the “other side” of the river from the American side. The piney-branch is white cedar–a local plant that Cartier used to heal his entire crew of scurvy, which is one of those famous stories that “the natives still speak of.” The eyes of the mask show a map symbol for waterfall (lines dropping down) or cataract (not the ‘eye’ ailment, but–also–double meaning?)  The lion refers to the Lyon’s Creek Parkway, or to William
Lyon
Mackenzie, a famous ‘ancestor’ of the area. Also, one of the major thoroughfares in the area is Stanley Road–and Stanley was a well-known African explorer.  The woman in the fairy wings can be African, but she might also be Cuban–an “Indies” native.
I have the casque placed in probability at the Table Rock area–there
is
a forked path there, and the sign for Heredia, and ‘cars abound.’ It is “in the shadow” of the falls, the Isle of B (Bird Isle) which is north of the Great Island, and Table Rock Point.
Anyway, that’s what I discovered. And I was hoping that I could get there to see if any of it confirmed anything. The area in Table Rock would be relatively easy to hide a casque in–there are lots of places it could be. So, there you have it. Go ahead and tear it up!
Christin

sounds good to me!  Great job!
-regulus

I’m not sure if this has already been mentioned….but for those who are looking at verse 10 for NY….you may be on the right track with JPJ Park. The line referring to an Indies native could be a reference to Alexander Hamilton, who is from the British West Indies. I believe that JPJ Park is in or next to Fort Hamilton.
I also suspect that the grey giant is the Empire State Building. See my post in the Guide to the Fair People’s section.
Shannon

shseverin11

I’m not sure if this has already been mentioned….but for those who are looking at verse 10 for NY….you may be on the right track with JPJ Park. The line referring to an Indies native could be a reference to Alexander Hamilton, who is from the British West Indies. I believe that JPJ Park is in or next to Fort Hamilton.
I also suspect that the grey giant is the Empire State Building. See my post in the Guide to the Fair People’s section.
Shannon

JPJ is going to be thoroughly explored by some long time searchers next week.
A Brooklyn group likes that John Paul Jones is both a patriot and a Rhapsodic Man.
Niagra Ontarium was a popular theory but no firm spot was found in or around Victoria Park or
Rainbow Bridge.  I was looking for a ‘Isle of B’ but never found one there to the North.
Shecrab, please provide a link to the likely Isle you found….

Shecrab, I liked the way the verse fits, but image2 I’m stuck on Charleston like everyone else.  And, since I live near NY, I will exhaust all ideas there before heading to Niagara.  I have relatives up there if needed in a pinch.  Thanks for posting that.  Interesting indeed.  I can tell you honestly that at one time I was hooked on Niagara, I even ordered a video from National Geographics on it.  But right now, the
slender path
has me hooked on the Narrows Inlet.
Shannon, if you look back through this thread, you’ll find that Hamilton wrote the
Federalists Papers
contained in 3 volumes.  The phrase
hard word
had been italicized throughout the writngs.  Google it and you’ll find them. We found that hard to be just a mere coincidence.  On the Brooklyn side of the Verrazano, JPJ Park is to the north side, and Fort Hamilton is at the south side of the bridge (sign nearby).  We just need the v.  (well, I just need the v, Trohn thinks he has it, but I don’t see it).

Well, just got back from JPJ Park.  No digging.  I found out two things.  The gazebo has only been around 6 or 7 years.  And there is no way to get to the foot of that V support.  Scary *warning* signs and cameras all around, and securely fenced off.
Had a nice chat with a couple in their late 60’s that have lived there all their lives.  I startled them a bit with my approach but settled in to a nice conversation.  Funny how people get into it when you convince them you are not a nut job. (fooled them huh?)
The spiked wrought iron fence, with some barbed wire at the corners of the park, had only been installed after 9/11.  According to them, there was only a 4 foot chain linked fence there in 82′ up until the new fence went up.  The cannon balls and the JPJ monument were at the new gazebo’s location and moved to their present postion shortly after the bridge was constructed in the sixties.  So, every thing but the gazebo and the fence is the same since 82′.  I will need to contact the Bridge and tunnel Authority to see if that area by the V was accessible back then.  Nothing to hop a 4 ft fence in 82′ and no real security back then either., but I’m thinking the “Gaze north” line tells us to look in the direction of the park itself.
Really nice park.  i like it.
edit: and BTW, somebody, for reasons I don’t know, dug a hole at the southern most point of the octagon shaped gazebo.  Looked to be a month or two old.  fresh weeds growing in small sink hole. um….

boogieman

Eljayo meant the V to be the v in verse ten.  Not ‘another verse’.

boogieman

Anyway, i had the great pleasure of meeting Fox and his family today.  There was a communication problem between us so hooking up was a spur of the moment thing, like “let’s dig without shovels” kinda thing.  I had just gotten back from vacation and he had to fly home in a few hours, so we rushed to the JPJ Park and
tore it up!
Not really, but we did decide that the v is the cables that run up both sides of the JPJ monument supporting flags at the top of each side of the T making the cables v shaped……I’ll give you more info later tonite.  gotta run.  PS:  Didn’t find it.  Dug in one spot.  Two more to check.

It’s right…
we need pics pics pics….

Trohn

There is no other verse thatwould lead us to JJP…
if this be the verse then this be the Rhapsodic Man.

Eljayo meant the V to be the v in verse ten.  Not ‘another verse’.
Anyway, i had the great pleasure of meeting Fox and his family today.  There was a communication problem between us so hooking up was a spur of the moment thing, like “let’s dig without shovels” kinda thing.  I had just gotten back from vacation and he had to fly home in a few hours, so we rushed to the JPJ Park and
tore it up!
Not really, but we did decide that the v is the cables that run up both sides of the JPJ monument supporting flags at the top of each side of the T making the cables v shaped……I’ll give you more info later tonite.  gotta run.  PS:  Didn’t find it.  Dug in one spot.  Two more to check.

Unknown

Unknown:
Hi all.  I just found out aobout this yesterday; been researching today while I’m “working”.
Assuming this verse points to NYC, and that there IS something in NYC, then…
“In the shadow
Of the grey giant”
Could this be the Little Red Lighthouse that sits literally in the shadow of the George Washington Bridge?  As an added bonus, the LRL is in Fort Washington Park, and obviously “Cars abound” on the GWB.

Hello all.  Virgin posting here.  Allow me to introduce myself.  I am Egbert’s (until now, Imaginary) partner from the Cleveland trip.  Suffice to say I have been completely hooked on the hunt since the May 8th find.  Despite Egbert’s urging, I have been reluctant to post until I had something “brilliant” to add, as I have been overwhelmed and somewhat intimidated by all the great postings that have been placed on this website.  However, the Bergen Record (North Jersey Newspaper) did a great piece on our Cleveland trip yesterday (front page!!) and I figured it was high time to stick my toe into the proverbial pool and finally test the waters.
I assume the piece in yesterday’s paper is what Dan is referring to when he says he just found about this yesterday.  And speaking of the Bergen Record, I also noticed the article on the front page of today’s “Local” section about the Little Red Lighthouse with a picture of the LRL standing directly under the “big gray bridge.”  Odd coincidence that this article would have been published a day after the newspaper did a big piece on the Secret and our Cleveland pilgrimage.  The article goes on to talk about a famous children’s book called “The Little Red Lighthouse and the Great Grey Bridge.”  Given the fact that B.P. is involved in the book publishing biz with an obvious flair for literary references, I think it is logical to assume that he might be familiar with this book and may well explain the reference to something standing in the shadow of the great grey giant, further supporting the notion that verse 10 is speaking of NYC.
Finally, despite Dan’s suggestion that much in NYC has changed since 1982, I think it is also a fair assumption that all of the locations that B.P. chose to bury the casques would have been places that he was confident would stand the test of time and never be disturbed (ie. the Cleveland Cultural Gardens).  Having been to the Gardens, it is clear that the Greek wall was there in 1982 and would be there as long as there was a city of Cleveland to speak of.  Of course, the unimaginable can occur, such as the way 9/11 changed the overall landscape of lower Manhattan, but the specific place chosen by B.P. for burial of the casque (assuming there IS one in NYC) must have been in a spot that he felt would remain untouched or unchanged by human hands.  Thus by choosing areas near monuments, or even a lighthouse, he would have ensured that he was burying his casques in places that were so much a part of the landscape that there would be no chance the area might be bought out by some land developer and altered to create some new project or community.  How else would B.P. have guarded against the possibility that the burial sight might otherwise be changed over time meaning that either the casque might never be found, or, in the alternative, discovered by some construction worker by accident, and not a bona fide treasure seeker and avid reader of his book.  My guess is that he was far too clever to allow for that to happen.
Well, that’s all for now.  Nothing too “brilliant” for starters.  Just wanted to introduce myself into the game and offer a few thoughts.

Heya Siskel! Great article in Saturday’s Bergen Record. I’d like to extend a ‘congrats’ to you and Egbert as well as all who helped in the quest from Q4T. Always a fan of a good mystery or riddle, I decided to get in on the action.
Who knows, maybe once this NYC riddle is solved, we can get some people from the area (I’m in Wayne, NJ) together to dig ‘er up!

Dan,
You could have seen both from one of the Towers of the WTC, but alas that is all gone.. Who knows there might have been some sort of clue from that angle.. Not in the same view, one to the right and one to the left, but with a birds eye view something else might have come into sight. Just a thought. Maybe if you map it out on paper with a line drawn to connect them both it will cross a park and bring another thought to mind.

davinci4

I think it’s worth having the discussion of what the v could represent. In the context of this puzzle, I would argue (and see if others agree) this is your ‘site specific clue’ I.e. your “10 x 13” or “beneath the 10th stone.” This clue only makes sense after you have identified the correct site location.
I have mentioned previously, the v would seemingly have to be something ‘large’ in scale. Going to the middle of one branch would seem superfluous if it was say a Roman numeral V inscribed on a monument. Then we are told to walk 22 steps. I can only visualize a path in a park, but may be it’s a retaining stone wall. What else? Thoughts?

This has been discussed before, but giving steps or paces is a terrible clue due to variations in stride length. It is my sincere hope that the steps are referring to actual steps on a staircase, or more generally city blocks, subway stops, windows in a building, columns, or other well defined increments of some type of object. The other way this works is if you terminate at a physical location or barrier of sorts, so we can rationalize that it may be 22 walking steps for an average person.

gManTexas

This has been discussed before, but giving steps or paces is a terrible clue due to variations in stride length. It is my sincere hope that the steps are referring to actual steps on a staircase, or more generally city blocks, subway stops, windows in a building, columns, or other well defined increments of some type of object. The other way this works is if you terminate at a physical location or barrier of sorts, so we can rationalize that it may be 22 walking steps for an average person.

If the 22 steps line of the verse were meant to give the searcher a precise 1’x1′ dig spot, agree that would be a terrible way to do it. And Gman lists several alternate interpretations which might make it a better clue. I’d like to throw out one other idea.
If “steps” are paces and are leading you toward a dig spot, perhaps it was never meant to be a precision clue. Perhaps it would bring you to a small general area and the precision clue is elsewhere. Just another idea to consider.
“And sometimes where the verse leaves off…the painting begins.”
– John Jude Palencar

I think it’s worth having the discussion of what the v could represent. In the context of this puzzle, I would argue (and see if others agree) this is your ‘site specific clue’ I.e. your “10 x 13” or “beneath the 10th stone.” This clue only makes sense after you have identified the correct site location.
I have mentioned previously, the v would seemingly have to be something ‘large’ in scale. Going to the middle of one branch would seem superfluous if it was say a Roman numeral V inscribed on a monument. Then we are told to walk 22 steps. I can only visualize a path in a park, but may be it’s a retaining stone wall. What else? Thoughts?

davinci4

Then we are told to walk 22 steps.

But, did Simon say?

V could still be an substitution. All the substitutions in v12 were proper and B. Is proper, but maybe this one isn’t—hence the lowercase. In that sense, vestibule was an decent idea.
In short, a feature or building that starts with v and has offshoots or branches.
Though I still think conjecturing about elements without incorporating a find is fruitless and has been beaten to death in the 134 pages of this thread.
Also, though facetious, 421 has a point. If you start to remember the clue as “22 steps” you’ll likely miss an obvious answer that’s staring you in the face on site if it isn’t based on the image clock after all.

Glossiphoniidae

But, did Simon say?

phrabbott

Also, though facetious…

Not fecetious.

Glossiphoniidae

Not fecetious.

burnstyle

Given the (admittedly very limited) conversations we have had. I actually believe this.

Ah, my bad. Then in answer to your question, no, I don’t believe anyone named Simon chimed in on this one. Not sure what bearing it would have on this if he did.
Facetious doesn’t mean you’re not trying to help. You gave a tongue and cheek answer. I called you on it.

phrabbott

Ah, my bad. Then in answer to your question, no, I don’t believe anyone named Simon chimed in on this one.

Sorry, misspelled Byron.

From decoding of the purple panel (instructions posted earlier) the map to the treasure ground shows two routs to the spot. That may explain the “Or more”
i.e. a double staircase with 22 steps on one side and 23 or more on the other.

Choice

From decoding of the purple panel (instructions posted earlier) the map to the treasure ground shows two routs to the spot.

rather than reference instructions, why not post the results of your decoding with images?

Noooope.

I think I’ve developed allergies to mockery and douchebaggery!

FWIW…
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
Here’s a sign from Totem Park inside Stanley Park in Vancouver:
http://www.seestanleypark.com/totems/lgtotem05.jpg
INDIAN TOTEM POLES
The totem was the British Columbia Indian’s
“coat of arms”.  Totem poles are unique to the
north west coast of B.C. and lower Alaska.
They were carved from western red cedar and
each carving tells of a real or mythical event.
They were not idols, nor were they worshipped.
Each carving on each pole has a meaning.
The eagle represents the kingdom of the air,
the whale, the lordship of the sea, the wolf,
the genius of the land, and the frog,
the transitional link between land and sea.
This link has more pics of Totem Park:
http://www.seestanleypark.com/totems/page6totems.htm

maltedfalcon

well sure is one thing,
but until we actually use a verse to find a casque
for instance,
in the northwest corner of Golden Gate Park there stands a large grey windmill its arms extend over many slender paths
I believe in the summer they actually used to let the windmill spin which might make a whirring noise.
lots of cars there at the intersection of Fulton and Great Highway
lots of possibilities for natives of Indies
I just never could find an Isle of B
if someone can think of an Isle of B this one could also then fit SF

I will admit that this is a stretch!
As far as the Isle of B goes……I think it could depend on how North is to be used or interpreted.  North on a map? or North as far as which way your body is positioned?
It says to travel East as many steps as the hour or more.  If North is to be used as far as which way your body is facing, then “your” north would be east on a map. Then I would argue that SF would be an excellent choice!

the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
I still think the sign relating to indies native is the plaque at the Montauk club that references the exploits of the Montauk Indians.
I think this would be a sign that “speaks of”  where a road sign wouldn’t tell you anything but a name.

thanks siskel, i always thought Roosevelt Island, looked like the pleat/fold
in the skirt, to the left of the face, will there be another hunt in NYC, b4
the doc film is finished

For those interested, a synopsis of my recent trip to New York with James Renner:
Met up with James and his film crew AND Byron’s two daughters. Lovely girls and they were THRILLED to be part of the search. Was so interesting to see it through their eyes. Showed them all the Roman Orthodox Church in Brooklyn across from McCarren Park and got some ooohs and ahhs. Went next to Prospect Park, after first stopping at the house where Byron was born (near the park!!). After traveling from one end to the other and ending in Concert Grove (aka Rhapsodic Man’s soil) I can confidently say that the treasure is NOT buried there. The girls were excited at the “prospect” (excuse the pun) and felt confident their dad would have buried a casque in the borough of his birth. And there were even some high hopes – like when we were looking at a map in the park and saw a refernce to a small man made island just north of Concert Grove called Musical Bear Island (The Isle of B???). And then when we found a large gazeebo that looked like it might have housed a carousel (cars abound) many years back and, after jumping over the do not enter fences to do a more thorough investigation, we saw not only the same color scheme in the inside roof (pale yellow, maroon and blue) but more amazing, there is a stain glass panel at the very center that even had some small circlular baubles in different spots that sort of resembled the color blind panels, albeit in small doses. After some initial goosebumps, we traversed that Concert Grove area looking for a V and walked 22 steps “or Moore” (towards the bust of composer Moore) in an area near busts of Mozart and Beethoven, both of whom have been referenced in previous prose, hoping we might find a suitable spot for digging. But alas, we all came to the conclusion that there is simply no way that the casque is buried in Prospect Park. And that was after exploring the large arch (grey giant?) adjacent to the Brooklyn Public Library (that was adorned with gold images including an indian and Moby Dick — Melville, him of Hard Words?). Bottom line is that this entire location seemed like a stretch at best and there was NEVER that “A-Ha” moment that I experienced so clearly in Cleveland when Egbert and I discovered the treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens 10 years ago.
From there we headed to Downtown Manhattan and explored the Battery Park area. Lots of clues to match up to the prose – the fact that the Fraunces Tavern sign mentions the West Indies native being a block from Mellvile’s birth plaque (“A man thinks that by mouthing Hard Words he understands hard things”) and standing at the very end of Broadway and looking north up that long “aisle”/isle of B (Broadway) the only structure visible in the distance is CLEARLY the Chrysler building, perfectly framed by the aisle of B itself (that dreaded Eagle gargoyle?) Whirring sounds from the nearby Staten Island Ferry and the nearby helliport, and clear sight lines for both Lady Liberty and Ellis Island (though not the docking area that appears to be referenced outlined in red in the illustration) and also some nice sculptures above the Battery Tunnel that show both the archway for the Verrazano Bridge and (in a separate panel) Peter Minuet buying Manhattan from the Indians (for the glass baubles?) Still, despite some better clues all around, the Battery Park area just did not feel right. Too spread out with no one place that seemed right.
We did NOT get to explore the area at the base of the Verrezano (JPJ Park and Ft. Hamilton) which remains a popular theory for some. We also did not get to visit Roosevelt Island, a theory that I feel is quite valid (formerly Blackwell’s Island and if standing at the Southern tip in the park area, you can gaze north to the Isle of B (Blackwell). From there, you can hear the whirring sound of the overhead Roosevelt Island Tramcar, opened in the late 1970s and according to his daughters, they lived right there, and their dad loved taking them on that tramcar to Roosevelt Island. It also stands in the shadow of a Grey Giant (the UN Building that looks like the grey monlith in the image) and has a remarkable view of the Chrylser building (the eagle). But I digress …
So, after traversing a LOT of ground and re-exploring some old theories with some new friends, the consensus is that while Byron MUST have buried a casque in his hometown area of Brooklyn or lower Manhattan, it is NOT at Prospect Park and probably not at Battery Park. Again, JPJ Park remains in the hunt, assuming the prose can really be tied in, and Roosevelt island (where Dickens visited — him of Hard [Times] Words in Three original Vols. — to write about the Lunatic Assylum there) remains a personal theory of some value, Image 12 and NY as a whole remains one heck of a mystery. When comparing Cleveland to Chicago, both images contained specific images that could be seen at the site location and the prose contained specific words or imagery that could also be seen at the exact spot, giving you the X marks the spot undeniable feeling. Unfortunately, that feeling did not exist at any of the locals we had a chance to visit, leaving us to feel more like we were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The search, and the documentary, continues …

For those interested, a synopsis of my recent trip to New York with James
Renner
:
Met up with James and his film crew AND Byron’s two daughters. Lovely girls and they were THRILLED to be part of the search. Was so interesting to see it through their eyes. Showed them all the Roman Orthodox Church in Brooklyn across from McCarren Park and got some ooohs and ahhs. Went next to Prospect Park, after first stopping at the house where Byron was born (near the park!!). After traveling from one end to the other and ending in Concert Grove (aka Rhapsodic Man’s soil) I can confidently say that the treasure is NOT buried there. The girls were excited at the “prospect” (excuse the pun) and felt confident their dad would have buried a casque in the borough of his birth. And there were even some high hopes – like when we were looking at a map in the park and saw a refernce to a small man made island just north of Concert Grove called Musical Bear Island (The Isle of B???). And then when we found a large gazeebo that looked like it might have housed a carousel (cars abound) many years back and, after jumping over the do not enter fences to do a more thorough investigation, we saw not only the same color scheme in the inside roof (pale yellow, maroon and blue) but more amazing, there is a stain glass panel at the very center that even had some small circlular baubles in different spots that sort of resembled the color blind panels, albeit in small doses. After some initial goosebumps, we traversed that Concert Grove area looking for a V and walked 22 steps “or Moore” (towards the bust of composer Moore) in an area near busts of Mozart and Beethoven, both of whom have been referenced in previous prose, hoping we might find a suitable spot for digging. But alas, we all came to the conclusion that there is simply no way that the casque is buried in Prospect Park. And that was after exploring the large arch (grey giant?) adjacent to the Brooklyn Public Library (that was adorned with gold images including an indian and Moby Dick — Melville, him of Hard Words?). Bottom line is that this entire location seemed like a stretch at best and there was NEVER that “A-Ha” moment that I experienced so clearly in Cleveland when Egbert and I discovered the treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens 10 years ago.
From there we headed to Downtown Manhattan and explored the Battery Park area. Lots of clues to match up to the prose – the fact that the Fraunces Tavern sign mentions the West Indies native being a block from Mellvile’s birth plaque (“A man thinks that by mouthing Hard Words he understands hard things”) and standing at the very end of Broadway and looking north up that long “aisle”/isle of B (Broadway) the only structure visible in the distance is CLEARLY the Chrysler building, perfectly framed by the aisle of B itself (that dreaded Eagle gargoyle?) Whirring sounds from the nearby Staten Island Ferry and the nearby helliport, and clear sight lines for both Lady Liberty and Ellis Island (though not the docking area that appears to be referenced outlined in red in the illustration) and also some nice sculptures above the Battery Tunnel that show both the archway for the Verrazano Bridge and (in a separate panel) Peter Minuet buying Manhattan from the Indians (for the glass baubles?) Still, despite some better clues all around, the Battery Park area just did not feel right. Too spread out with no one place that seemed right.
We did NOT get to explore the area at the base of the Verrezano (JPJ Park and Ft. Hamilton) which remains a popular theory for some. We also did not get to visit Roosevelt Island, a theory that I feel is quite valid (formerly Blackwell’s Island and if standing at the Southern tip in the park area, you can gaze north to the Isle of B (Blackwell). From there, you can hear the whirring sound of the overhead Roosevelt Island Tramcar, opened in the late 1970s and according to his daughters, they lived right there, and their dad loved taking them on that tramcar to Roosevelt Island. It also stands in the shadow of a Grey Giant (the UN Building that looks like the grey monlith in the image) and has a remarkable view of the Chrylser building (the eagle). But I digress …
So, after traversing a LOT of ground and re-exploring some old theories with some new friends, the consensus is that while Byron MUST have buried a casque in his hometown area of Brooklyn or lower Manhattan, it is NOT at Prospect Park and probably not at Battery Park. Again, JPJ Park remains in the hunt, assuming the prose can really be tied in, and Roosevelt island (where Dickens visited — him of Hard [Times] Words in Three original Vols. — to write about the Lunatic Assylum there) remains a personal theory of some value, Image 12 and NY as a whole remains one heck of a mystery. When comparing Cleveland to Chicago, both images contained specific images that could be seen at the site location and the prose contained specific words or imagery that could also be seen at the exact spot, giving you the X marks the spot undeniable feeling. Unfortunately, that feeling did not exist at any of the locals we had a chance to visit, leaving us to feel more like we were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The search, and the documentary, continues …

gManTexas

You can always go over to the dark side and try to solve Montreal, lol.

Bring a jackhammer….I’ll stand guard.

Simple roots
One could interpret simple as ‘elementary’ or child’s play.

Since there is a bunch of activity in NYC at the moment, let’s analyze these lines again:
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
To me, this implies that we are standing at some elevation. It seems a bit ridiculous to say look down at your feet and see some grass, or possibly tree roots. Thoughts?

gManTexas

Since there is a bunch of activity in NYC at the moment, let’s analyze these lines again:
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
To me, this implies that we are standing at some elevation. It seems a bit ridiculous to say look down at your feet and see some grass, or possibly tree roots. Thoughts?

Agreed. And with the line after that, “Or gaze north,” the word
or
seems to indicate the opposite of looking northward. So essentially you’re looking south, downhill (overlooking Brooklyn).

idyl

Agreed. And with the line after that, “Or gaze north,” the word
or
seems to indicate the opposite of looking northward. So essentially you’re looking south, downhill (overlooking Brooklyn).

That’s my feeling.

Couldn’t this just be a clever way of saying Gershwin’s (rhapsodic man) home area (simple roots).

davinci4

Couldn’t this just be a clever way of saying Gershwin’s (rhapsodic man) home area (simple roots).

That, or maybe even Preiss’s home area rather than Gershwin. We already have the “rhapsodic man’s soil” referencing Gershwin -> Brooklyn, so the “simple roots” might be a reference to Preiss’s own growing up there.
Although this wouldn’t make a difference since they both are pointing to Brooklyn, it’s interesting to wonder if maybe he added himself into the NY puzzle like that.

I find it interesting that you can tie or translate other words in verse 10 to music. What if the rhapsodic man was put there to simply get you thinking about music to forward the puzzle?
Here are some:
step – difference in pitch between notes
root – chord naming
v – minor scale
B – the note
Could any of this be applied to the verse? I suppose it all depends on where you are focusing your efforts. Imagine v not being a literal v but something minor or a scale. Now those would be devlish puzzle skills.
Gershwin even had an arrangement called Summertime in B minor for the song Summertime from Porgy and Bess. Quite the popular tune.

Edit – double post.

GoldenMartyr

I find it interesting that you can tie or translate other words in verse 10 to music. What if the rhapsodic man was put there to simply get you thinking about music to forward the puzzle?
Here are some:
step – difference in pitch between notes
root – chord naming
v – minor scale
B – the note
Could any of this be applied to the verse? I suppose it all depends on where you are focusing your efforts. Imagine v not being a literal v but something minor or a scale. Now those would be devlish puzzle skills.
Gershwin even had an arrangement called Summertime in B minor for the song Summertime from Porgy and Bess. Quite the popular tune.

Now that’s some outside of the box thinking that I can get behind.

Oh man, now the whole verse is reading like one of those awful pun-ny music theory stories I had to endure throughout college. Not sure I can unsee this. I may be done with NYC.
Example for the non-dweebs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments … nto_a_bar/

Ignore the flaming bird, he is full of nonsense.

phrabbott

Oh man, now the whole verse is reading like one of those awful pun-ny music theory stories I had to endure throughout college. Not sure I can unsee this. I may be done with NYC.
Example for the non-dweebs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments … nto_a_bar/

You can always go over to the dark side and try to solve Montreal, lol.

Glossiphoniidae

Been working on this one a bit. There are some original/good posts early in this thread. Did a little “digging” to expound on a few this past week.
I think i might have found “the sign nearby” that “speaks of Indies native.” What’s the most accepted interpretation of that line right now?
Also, I’d mentioned it before, but does anyone else see the 7 and the 5 in the lady in Image 12’s arm/shoulder area?

Well, no responses, so I guess I’ll just share. The sign that speaks of Indies native, I believe, is the 1976 sign on Fraunces Tavern, and this is confusingly nearby-ish (half mile):

IMO, if you’re down to 800sq feet, it might be a better idea to revise your verse and image analysis. I doubt that Preiss would have buried a casque somewhere in an 800 sq feet area and said, “just dig around to find it.” I have always thought that the location that results from an analysis would be 2-4 feet x 2-4 feet. So far the two casques were nailed down to a really small area (Cleveland was at the end of a planter bed- the interpretation needed the guys to just pick the right end). If BP wanted casques to be found, that would be a far more logical way of burying them- near a landmark and at a definite point.
If your area has no discernable “I’m here” locations, maybe your area is wrong.
If it has loads of landmarks that could be “I’m here” locations, then look at verse and image and remove anything that doesn’t conform with a good, solid, analysis.
If there are loads of similar markers (multiple lampposts of the same design), work out your path to the location to rule out all of the extra markers.
That should save you lots of time probing a giant area. You may end up just probing a few definite sites instead.
XdM

PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong, but…
In the Chicago SOLVED puzzle the finders boiled down an area of perhaps 700-1400 sqft behind a row of ten trees (10×13) in sight of the RR fence… to a 2 or 3 ft sq area?..?..?
Assuming the trees were 7ft apart and by the pix I’ve seen about 20ft from the RR fence, that’s 1400 sqft search area.
I have seen no other clues, except a reference to “the fixture” people talk about.
In fact it took the Chicago people over a year, and a letter to BP to solve the puzzle.
It’s likely there are more “clues” in Chicago than the finders are letting on.
Most actually believe BP gave the Chicago finders a bit of EXTRA help.
On my NYC solution:
I have 32 SPECIFIC spots in my NY solution in an area of about 800 sqft.
One “center” spot and eight corresponding spots per “quadrant”— with the quadrant “transposed” both horizontal and vertical and horizontal again (just for good measure)— that’s 32 specific spots.
The “transposing” is because some believe the clues may be “backwards” for some reason, or may be “read/viewed” backwards from a specific point of reference.
And just for good measure, I’m probing every two inches on a line of a few feet.
May sound like over-kill, but one can’t be sure BP buries the casque EXACTLY where the solution points, or that over time the casque may have “migrated” a few inches… a 6 or 7 inch plexi box is awfully small…
And I only want to probe/dig this area once.

Hear, hear! The Cleveland one took an entire day and it was in a finite area. I’m happy to hear he’s doing overkill. At worst the spot will be completely X’d off. I don’t even want to know how many have been found and barely missed!

If I remember correctly the Cleveland spot was zoned off by construction for a while so it took longer than usual. The whole reason BP gave a helping hand was for urgency of the situation.

Yes… all reports are that for Chicago, the finders corresponded with BP and got some final tweaking of the location.
From seeing photos, it was pretty close to being in the middle of 4 trees in a square, so although not exact, it was pretty refined in the sense that it was directly out from the fence fixture (image match) and “central too” to the trees noted at the end of “ten by thirteen”. A little geometry could nail it down to a 2×2 area that would then have needed to be probed around or dug out. This also leads to what a lot of searchers are thinking that a lot of lines are double clues… “central too” meaning central to the trees, but also the Central line which is near by. I have found a few of these possibly double meaning lines in the verses, and they are interesting to look at and play with.
As for Cleveland… the searchers dug a lot, but in the wrong end of the bed. Finite, but still able to be misinterpreted. Only through apparent frustration and a thrown shovel dig the casque get hit. 20/20 hindsight to reverse engineer a solution was the only thing that ended up pointing to the exact location.
If you have a large area that is a solid possible, that’s great. What I was saying was a little rehash of your theory may make a prioritised list of locations, meaning that you don’t blanket probe, but focus on the most possible ones first. You should however probe all areas until you hit something. Or don’t hit something. And then, if it works for everyone involved, please share a detailed report of your probes and dig. At worst, it will rule out the whole area because you have been so thorough… which is a great thing for the search as a whole.
If you find something in an obscure place, then we can get our collective heads together and reverse engineer a solve.
I admire your thoroughness and willingness to rule out large areas. Much better idea than some people saying they found it because they read one line “know” where it is. Keep up the good work!
All the best on your hunt, and I hope my thoughts aren’t taken as rain on your parade, but instead as a way of saving you some time and effort.
XdM

Choice

If I remember correctly the Cleveland spot was zoned off…

I meant Chicago.
Probing a field could result in false positives and negatives. You could hit a rock and mark it as a possible spot (Expedition unknown did that a 1000 times). The plastic case could be cracked and damaged by now and probing could go right through it and give you a false negative.
So the moral of the story is use the formula that worked for the other two hunts. Narrow the area down to a small area supported by image match then get the backhoe!

ive always thought of …Or gaze north Toward the isle of B., as something like where duck island
is when you are already close to the treasure, so you are more in the dir, and maybe the isle of B
has changed with the landscaping of whatever park its in
duck
http://goo.gl/maps/BF72M

I’m sticking with my thoughts on Belmont Island. I found it after narrowing down Concert Grove as a possible site so it made even more sense. I know most disagree but who knows. I just like that it’s due north to the inch. Almost like crosshairs where x marks the spot. Just gotta get digging so we an rule out some spots. Definitely wanna rent a GPR sometime and go there. When? No clue.

Good ideas on Cleft Ridge. Going east from the bridge will take us into view of Camperdown Elm which may look like the “buffalo” in the water of the image. At least 30 years ago maybe.
**Correction, the elm is west of the bridge. Not sure if it’s visible going east.

Trohn

The beautiful thing here is:  Isle of B:
Belle Island (in the Detroit River) was designed by Olmstead.

The really beautiful thing here is that if you are on the shore GAZING NORTH TOWARD THE ISLE OF B., you are on the Canadian side of the border.
digger7

Yes…this looks exactly like FDR….if he were a rabbit, a mongoose or a tiger.
Rawr.

Mister EZ

Yes…this looks exactly like FDR….if he were a rabbit, a mongoose or a tiger.
Rawr.

As you can see the image is folded over, try unfolding it in your mind . I don’t think you can flip the image over have it bilaterally symmetrical and say this is what it has to look like. But if your looking for a rabbit , mongoose or a tiger then be my guest.

Well, I was joking….I forgot that the zealots on Q4T have no sense of humor.
Furthermore, I don’t have to ‘unfold it in my mind’….all I have to do is look at the original image to see that it’s not FDR.
But, by all means, keep guessing at what items in the image *could* represent.
You’ll be digging up a casque , lickity-split.

Seabass….in ’81, I had access to a mirror that could show a reflected section of any portion of any image, creating a whole image out of what appeared to be only half an image.
Although, my wife would disagree that I ever bothered to use it for what it was intended….
0_o
/me combs his hair

I’ve expressed this view before that a 4 and a rotated 9 are blended in this corner of the flower. It always seemed like a bit of a stretch, until I noticed a similar case appears to be in image 2 for Charleston’s lat/long where the 32 has a rotated digit.

Spiritr

do you have a picture of what exactly the simple roots looks like?

i do

As being the one to mention JJP as being both the Father of the Navy and the rapsonic man –
let me wiegh in….
The first part of the verse gets you to New York and the Bridge and the Narrows,
but you do not know anything else until you see the plaque indicating that you
are standing in John Paul Jones Park and have the dual connection.
I believe that ‘simple roots’ indicates ‘one generation’ or father.
‘Take twice as many east steps as the hour’
‘From the middle of one branch’
‘Of the v’
I think that ‘one branch’ is talking about the Navy.
And you count your eastern steps from the ‘v’ in navy
on the plaque.
Why does it say ‘or more’, I do not know.  Could it be a visual
reference or an anagram (?)
I think it is there somewhere.

I like the simple roots thing.  I know you brought that up some time ago trohn.
The branch may mean a military branch ergo the Navy.
But why take steps from the v in navy?  the plaque is probably smaller in width then a single step.  to take 22 steps from a letter barely an inch  wide doesn’t jive with me.  I read the verse so that you take 22 steps from the middle of one branch of the v.  to me, that v must be large.
The biggest nag is the lack of an onsite visual confirmer from image12.  We have the arch of the bridge.  That’s pretty much it.  The verse has been packaged nicely.  But we’ve known that for a year or so.  Getting dizzy. Again.

Maybe ‘v’ stands for ‘visual confirmer.’

“middle of one branch of the v”
Good thoughts, but I don’t see how the navy is a branch of the v? I know the navy is a branch of the military, but the middle of one branch of the v just doesn’t jive with navy to me.
I’m with boogie on this one.

I know this is probably the wrong place to post this, but in the armpit of the lady in picture 12, the area looks very similar to an obelisk, like the one found in the park?
Maybe or I am imagining things.

The Swan Boats in Boston’s Public Garden make about as much noise as bicycle pedals attached to a covered paddlewheel, because that’s how they’ve been powered since they were introduced. They do not whirr.
The experience of a Swan Boat ride can best be described by the word “placid”.

Kalessin

The Swan Boats in Boston’s Public Garden make about as much noise as bicycle pedals attached to a covered paddlewheel, because that’s how they’ve been powered since they were introduced. They do not whirr.
The experience of a Swan Boat ride can best be described by the word “placid”.

Yes.Thank you
My only hope is that in 1982 the swan boats were louder
Also the solve falls apart a bit at the end

Having one of these at the lake where I spent most of summers playing when I was a kid I can assure you that the pedals don’t make much noise but the paddle wheel blades hitting the water while spinning makes slapping, pot pot noise.

drunknerds

Just wanted to remind people that one of Preiss’ daughters said he told her everything in the image can be seen from the dig spot.

I’m having a tough time believing that. Maybe they were told this or remembered it that way. Also, we can’t assume that 36 years later this still holds true. Things grow, things move, things are removed…