gManTexas

I’m having a tough time believing that. Maybe they were told this or remembered it that way. Also, we can’t assume that 36 years later this still holds true. Things grow, things move, things are removed…

It certainly didn’t hold true for Cleveland and Chicago. Plus, it sounds like a fib Preiss might tell.
But, maybe…

When he said “everything”, how many things is that? I’m guessing 2 or 3 things tops.

gManTexas

I’m having a tough time believing that. Maybe they were told this or remembered it that way. Also, we can’t assume that 36 years later this still holds true. Things grow, things move, things are removed…

I also think this depends on what the actual things in the image ARE. Is that really the Statue of Liberty? Is that REALLY Ellis Island? I don’t think they are exact. I think they are pieces/parts mashed together. If they are only similar, then maybe we don’t need to see the harbor from afar.

karleen

I also think this depends on what the actual things in the image ARE. Is that really the Statue of Liberty? Is that REALLY Ellis Island? I don’t think they are exact. I think they are pieces/parts mashed together. If they are only similar, then maybe we don’t need to see the harbor from afar.

yes and no
I don’t believe the ellis island connection but
I do believe that is undoubtedly the face of the SOL. look at chicago, the water tower is close enough to be indisputeably identifiable, but still it is not exact.

erexere

I don’t think Domingo Sarmiento or Melville’s Pierre having anywhere close to the popularity of Gershwin.

That’s a great point: If one is going to establish that an obscure Sariento quote means what it means, and same for a Melville quote… it follows that a Rhapsody reference should indicate none other than the most direct association.

Ahhh, you got me!

And Dvorak has been ruled out previously? He’s somewhat less widely-known than Gershwin as a composer of rhapsodies, but does have a longstanding family home plaque off Stuyvesant Square:
https://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=44256

How about a synonym of rhapsodic, such as “elevated”?
This would work well for the tall pedestal Burns.

erexere

Ahhh, you got me!

Shoot, I didn’t even mean to! You had a great point

I keep wondering about rhapsodic man because, if it is Gershwin, you have his childhood home to the west (8th ave and 13th street) and he composed Rhapsody in Blue on a train and the train is to the east. I know it’s not the same train, but it’s interesting.
Of course Freddy Mercury is from Queens. hahaha

Goldengate

I usually don’t get too wonky on verses not connected to the San Francisco casque, but I thought you guys would enjoy this:
“Gershwin’s tragedy was not that he failed to cross the tracks, but rather that he did, and once there in his new habitat, was deprived of the chance to plunge his roots firmly into the new soil.”
–Leonard Bernstein, in Charles Schwartz Gershwin: His Life and Music (New York: Bobbs-Merrill, 1973) p. xii.

I really like this! Thanks for sharing.

karleen

Of course Freddy Mercury is from Queens. hahaha

Wait, what? Is there a Queens in India?

Goldengate

I usually don’t get too wonky on verses not connected to the San Francisco casque, but I thought you guys would enjoy this:
“Gershwin’s tragedy was not that he failed to cross the tracks, but rather that he did, and once there in his new habitat, was deprived of the chance to plunge his roots firmly into the new soil.”
–Leonard Bernstein, in Charles Schwartz Gershwin: His Life and Music (New York: Bobbs-Merrill, 1973) p. xii.

I have been staring at Verse 10 for a while. One of my theories is that all of the verses have been rearranged to a certain extent to make things a bit more complicated. If we believe this, then this verse needs a bit of rearrangement to flow properly, however the connections to the clues on the ground can alter based on the arrangement. Also, I believe the capitalization of each word that starts a line is more of a literary device than an indication that the line starts or end as written.
Verse 10 as presented.
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
Although the sign Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the ν
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
Proposed rearrangement #1
In the shadow
Of the grey giant;
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path;
Although the sign Nearby
Speaks of Indies native;
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.;
Cars abound;
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound;
Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more
From the middle of one branch Of the ν;
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil;
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
In this arrangement, gazing north occurs immediately after looking down at the rhapsodic man’s soil and is presented in terms of an alternative. This means you are at one spot and the two actions compliment one another. In other words, both objects are to the north. For this to occur, we have to be located below Manhattan, since the islands have to be north of the dig spot. This makes Brooklyn a good candidate. Also, now the exact Island (Bedloe’s or Blackwell’s) becomes less important. The same holds true for the rhapsodic man, since we know that his soil must lie north. Gershwin is a great candidate, but it matters less.
Proposed rearrangement #2
In the shadow
Of the grey giant;
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path;
Although the sign Nearby
Speaks of Indies native;
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.;
Cars abound;
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound;
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B;
Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more
From the middle of one branch Of the ν;
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil.
In rearrangement two, the gazing to the north is decoupled from the rhapsodic man’s soil. There is an ambiguity here, meaning we could be in Manhattan looking at Roosevelt (formerly Blackwell’s) Island. It is technically northeast, but let’s assume it is north. Now we are faced with the task of determining the direction of the rhapsodic man’s soil. If we assume it to be Gershwin, that would technically be south in Brooklyn and dos not fit. Now we are faced with a plethora of options for rhapsodic people. This make the clues incredibly difficult to decipher.
I believe that Preiss originally had only one or the other clue in the verse. Someone, maybe himself, thought about it and said, this is entirely too vague. Could be a number of places. By reinforcing the location, we are given a solid clue that we should be south of Manhattan to find the casque.

my two cents,
last lines, “or gaze north at the isle of B” seems like the last lines in V4 “seek the columns for the search”.
The columns were a good distance away from the wall and casque and seems to work for the purpose of holding up the painting and recognizing without a doubt that you are in the correct location. The nitty gritty details are resolved next, so despite these lines coming last, we are just beginning the final steps.
I think the first thing to do is gaze north at the isle of B., then it’s on to the nitty gritty.

erexere

my two cents,
last lines, “or gaze north at the isle of B” seems like the last lines in V4 “seek the columns for the search”.
The columns were a good distance away from the wall and casque and seems to work for the purpose of holding up the painting and recognizing without a doubt that you are in the correct location. The nitty gritty details are resolved next, so despite these lines coming last, we are just beginning the final steps.
I think the first thing to do is gaze north at the isle of B., then it’s on to the nitty gritty.

supposing we do this, would we then take the 22 steps or more east?

Depends on what “the middle branch of v” means and whether we take the east steps to get to the casque or from where the casque is to a sensible confirmation step.
I think there’s always room for a reversal in perspective with these.

Just wanted to remind people that one of Preiss’ daughters said he told her everything in the image can be seen from the dig spot.

drunknerds

Just wanted to remind people that one of Preiss’ daughters said he told her everything in the image can be seen from the dig spot.

I wish they could have said everything in the image was visible from Ellis Island, which is where they were during that conversation (as I recall). Alas, even they have no knowledge of the specific dig site.
Also a reminder, they said this with regards to the New York image only. While it might apply to other images and locations, it is best not to assume such.
Could the silhouette of the Russian onion domes have been merely a picture at the time? Rather than an actual building in the distance, could there have been an historical or cultural display at the time in whatever park the casque was buried?

drunknerds

Just wanted to remind people that one of Preiss’ daughters said he told her everything in the image can be seen from the dig spot.

The problem here is that the average cannot see ‘everything’ as people and animals are hidden in the dots–and in the water, and in her neck.

If the casque is not in JPJ Park, then it is not in Brooklyn.  The subway stop is 6 blocks away.
If the bridge is the grey giant then the Narrows Inlet has nothing to do with the verse, which is how we got to the bridge in the first place.
Please, please don’t make me look in the book!
Ok.  Ok.  I have to find it first.  It would be negligent not to investigate anything that has to do with a  v.  Have to find my book.
What is l
loops
?

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word
One possibility for him of hard word is Ralph Waldo Emerson.
“Speak what you think today in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again.”
I was wondering if the natives might be the Canarsie. This is a Brooklyn district bordered by Ralph Ave., and a railway line featuring “intricate mosaic tilework” that reminded me of image 12.
http://www.nycsubway.org/lines/canarsie.html
Liberty has been compared to Athena, whose symbol was an owl.
(Here’s a couple at OHP.)

lol!  that was one of my main theories!  with the subway tiles and railroads and the colors in the image!!
i like the reference of liberty and the owl..

I’d forgotten that. Well, it all points irresistibly to the Canarsie at OHP. I’m coming round to your “Gowanus Express” idea as well, since this appears on a sign by the park. (Turn left at the top of Narrows Ave.)
This is my fave OHP owl.
In the shadow of the
great grey
.
Image 12 has hoop shapes all over it.

Just plead insanity.

Hello. Just thinking more about the V. It’s an excellent point that it likely runs in a N-S, S-N configuration. The former V in front of Fort Hamilton high school makes it a strong contender. I have always liked the Fort Hamilton park location but it lacks the V that would fit the criteria. Any other Vs we are missing in Brooklyn?

davinci4

Hello. Just thinking more about the V. It’s an excellent point that it likely runs in a N-S, S-N configuration. The former V in front of Fort Hamilton high school makes it a strong contender. I have always liked the Fort Hamilton park location but it lacks the V that would fit the criteria. Any other Vs we are missing in Brooklyn?

It is not there. Look on Google Earth……….been torn up……..I don’t think it was there to begin with.

davinci4

Hello. Just thinking more about the V. It’s an excellent point that it likely runs in a N-S, S-N configuration. The former V in front of Fort Hamilton high school makes it a strong contender. I have always liked the Fort Hamilton park location but it lacks the V that would fit the criteria. Any other Vs we are missing in Brooklyn?

..and if that field in front of the HS is considered as the V, then yes, you will find plenty of those in Brooklyn. If it is a geographical V, then my guess is you would need to find an exact match for the area of interests before finding the V.

I have always favored the Fort Hamilton Park location, but can’t seem to find a spot where the V makes sense. There are not many places in Brooklyn named after Alexander Hamilton so it narrows the choices considerably. The only other thought was that ‘the middle of the (former) V’ could be directing us to go across the street (cars abound) to where the flag pole is in front of the school. Just seems VERY far for 22 steps (or more). Interesting to note though that the flag pole is east of the V and almost exactly in the middle of the ‘east branch.’

davinci4

I have always favored the Fort Hamilton Park location, but can’t seem to find a spot where the V makes sense. There are not many places in Brooklyn named after Alexander Hamilton so it narrows the choices considerably. The only other thought was that ‘the middle of the (former) V’ could be directing us to go across the street (cars abound) to where the flag pole is in front of the school. Just seems VERY far for 22 steps (or more). Interesting to note though that the flag pole is east of the V and almost exactly in the middle of the ‘east branch.’

I would check your research on that. There are many places in Brooklyn name after Hamilton, and the theory of the high school has been pretty well debunked. I also never subscribed to that theory.

Yes. Agreed. Should have prefaced that with locations adjacent to the BQE/Belt parkway (‘the arm that extends over a slender path’) near the water (where you would hear a ‘whirring sound’ from the ferries.) also think the shore in the painting is a confirmer to shore road.

davinci4

Yes. Agreed. Should have prefaced that with locations adjacent to the BQE/Belt parkway (‘the arm that extends over a slender path’) near the water (where you would hear a ‘whirring sound’ from the ferries.) also think the shore in the painting is a confirmer to shore road.

That whole part of Brooklyn down to Bay Ridge was very interesting and a compelling theory. We invest a lot of time from the HS, to old glory lookout, to JPJ park. All came up empty, and a lot of things seem to fit, but nothing really stood out. The level of difficulty of this puzzle always made me wonder if the verse is more vague then the others. We are obviously dealing with less imagery to make those exact matches as in other solves.

NYCNative

That whole part of Brooklyn down to Bay Ridge was very interesting and a compelling theory. We invest a lot of time from the HS, to old glory lookout, to JPJ park. All came up empty, and a lot of things seem to fit, but nothing really stood out. The level of difficulty of this puzzle always made me wonder if the verse is more vague then the others. We are obviously dealing with less imagery to make those exact matches as in other solves.

There is a certain lack of detail in Image 12, but I believe Verse 10 is very straightforward. Walk in the park so to speak.

So I went to the library searching for 80’s-era travel books for Charleston.  Didn’t find a whole lot other than mention that George Gerswhin spent time down in Charleston co-writing the opera Porgy and Bess.  Lived at a place called Folly Beach, on one of the barrier islands (cough, Island of B.?).
I know this goes contrary to everything else on this thread and I have nothing else to support it, but it was interesting.

slappybuns

i still like robert moses, on page 16 it says “Law of the Prophets”, and then i found this:
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Unknown

Unknown:
Situated just south of the United Nations , this full-block site was acquired by the city in 1937 as part of the Queens-Midtown Tunnel construction, another Moses undertaking. The playground, which was completed in 1941, shares the block with the tunnel’s ventilating tower. The site was named for Moses by the City Council in 1982

If the arm that extends be Moses…
…which is straight down the street from Chrysler, and on the coast looking north is Blackwell Island. It’s basketball courts around a ventilation building. The picture sure looks like a bball court key.

Hi all im very new here and learned about The Secret today but from reading in different places and being led here I figured id share the closest thing I had found to match the verse with the picture. On Image 12 there is a window like area that is cut into pieces by different shapes colors etc. The bottom left one ( looks like a square archway) could be a link to George Gershwins mausoleum, which could intern link to the “In rhapsodic man’s soil” Im still very new so I have no idea if this has already been disproven or anything just thought I would share. – John

A first response to the term “Indies Native” brought to
mind, Alexander Hamilton, who was actually born in the
West Indies…
AP

Hmmm…..I’ve heard of this guy.
Isn’t he on the $10 bill?
Just kidding AP.  I’m so exhausted reading about this guy.

A “Grey Giant” sounds like “Giant in Gray”…Wade Hampton,
a confederate general…famous in South Carolina.
He has several statues…
..Just thinking on line…
AP

boogieman

Hmmm…..I’ve heard of this guy.
Isn’t he on the $10 bill?
Just kidding AP.  I’m so exhausted reading about this guy.

Hmmm….$10 bill…isn’t that what they used to call a ONE dollar bill?

I have seen quite a few references to Indies native referring to Hamilton, which could be. However, the verse speaks of a sign nearby speaking of an Indies native, and I am not sure we have found a Hamilton sign like that. So, since this has apparently been lost in this thread, I offer again the Fraunces Tavern sign referring to Indies native Samuel Fraunces (I do not believe I was the one who found this, but I like it). The tavern is located in south Manhattan, near a bunch of other clues. Interestingly, the sign shows that it was dedicated in 1976, about 4 or 5 years before BP did this. Is it just my imagination, or have we run across quite a few clues referring to the year 1976? Maybe BP started gathering his info by reading things in newspapers starting in 1976, such as historic place dedications, since he knew that they would be “permanent.”
Also, lots of guesses as to the Hard word reference. I will resurrect the guess that this is a reference to Charles Dickens, who wrote Hard Times, which was in 3 volumes. However, I have come up empty with anything in NYC relating to Dickens.

What if the gray giant is Manhattan and the arm that extends is a bridge over a slender path. We also need to keep in mind that NYC includes Manhattan – Brooklyn – Bonx – Staten Island – and Queens. I do believe that Staten Island lies south of Brooklyn and Manhattan lies south of the Bronx. So if either the Bronx or Brooklyn were to be considered the Isle of B then that means we need to study Manhattan and Staten Island. If I had to choose either one to be considered the gray giant it would be Manhattan..  And don’t for get that Brooklyn is also called Kings County…Just kicking stuff up hoping to create a spark.

Well, thinking of Native Indians and Manhattan, and Hard Words,  the name Peter Minuit comes to mind. He was the man who bought Manhattan Island from the Native Indians with $24 dollars worth of beads.. There sure seems to be a lot of beads in the picture.. There is a granite stone in Battery Park in honor of him. And If the Lady in the picture is representing Manhattan, the Jewel seem to be at her feet. Battery Park is in the Foot (or lower part) of Manhattan.. And was also in the shadow of the Gray Giant if one of the Twin Towers was one of the Gray Giants..I am just speculating at this time, I do not even have the book yet so please bear with me. One more Question, I do not have all the verses yet, is everyone sure that Verse 10 goes with NY?

oh yeah, duh.  I should have looked a little better, i was looking at the peninsula of new york and i just assumed without looking for JPJ park.
My Bad.
Another casque 1 step away.  we got about three of those now, Milwaukee, New York City, and St. Augustine, Charleston?

I am really new to this book but my thoughts are leading me to believe that the branch they are talking about is really a bridge, and the whirring sound might be the sounds of one of the Heliports in NYC.
Like I said really new to the book, but not new to NYC.
They do say in the book that in the summer you might hear a whirring sound, but they also do not say that you might hear the same sound in the winter.. Nor do they say that you will not hear the sound in the winter..We need to stay open minded on this. It’s like the old question, Which weighs more a pound of feathers or a pound of lead?
We all know that a pound of lead weighs more..  😉

Unknown

Unknown:
A life size bronze statue of a woman in a wetsuit, with flippers on her feet and her mask pushed up on her forehead, sits on a large intertidal boulder just offshore of Stanley Park. In September of 1968, Douglas Brown, a Vancouver lawyer, talked to sculptor Elek Imredy about his desire to commission a sculpture inspired by the famous Copenhagen mermaid, which could be sited on the great granite boulder just off the northern shore of Stanley Park. [City of Vancouver]

Toward the isle of B.
Pairing this verse with image 9, I’m trying to see a perspective which explains the choice to use the Girl in Wetsuit sculpture as a landmark, while blending cultural connections from Scotland with Denmark.
Check out this visual connection to flags and geography:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … lmuemv.jpg
Canada’s little mermaid sits on a rock or isle just off the north shore of Stanley Park. Douglas Brown is responsible for the installation. Im not just saying that Brown is the B. There’s more to it. The leg in the square panel fits the actual three-legged lamp at the Mount Stephen Club in Montreal. George Stephen was originally from Scotland. The symbol for the Isle of Mann is three legs. The capitol of the Isle of Mann is Douglas.
Hans Christian Anderson, of Denmark, wrote
“The Little Mermaid”
fairy tale in 1837.
Compare Hans to Image 9
. Surprising how much it resembles Hans Christian Anderson from Denmark. I think I’m getting pretty close to a solve for Verse 10.
The Little Mermaid statue
was installed along the shore of Copenhagen in 1913.
The Girl in Wetsuit statue
, closely resembling the Copenhagen mermaid, is installed along the shoreline of Stanley Park, Vancouver B.C. in 1972. Douglas Brown is responsible for her installation.

boogieman

Hard word… Forest found it way back at around thread 23 or 24

Do you mean page 23 or 24 of this thread? I’m not finding what you refer to.

I shouldn’t worry too much about it Merlot, but search for “federalists” if you’re interested…

Hard word… Forest found it way back at around thread 23 or 24

I think this is the place. There are lots of steps to count. You can see 5 miles away. Lots of tree roots apparently. Description says “… peace and isolation…”
Unfortunately the Google Street Tricycle did not go there.
It is just further on into the park from the Concert Grove if you enter from East.
http://untappedcities.com/2013/01/24/un … kout-hill/

Isle of B.
Isle of Bee
Isle of Bee Gees
Where are the Bee Gees from?

Somewhere they spell “grey” with an “e”, I bet.

erexere

Isle of B.
Isle of Bee
Isle of Bee Gees
Where are the Bee Gees from?

Deez?

Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
I have an adjustment here.  The reason you can take more steps is that it takes you to a spot that doesnt allow further travel.  The number of steps will fit something, what, I’m not sure, but it really diesnt matter because the start and end of the path are limited.  The V is the center of the stone seating area beneath the center of the shelter.  East steps takes you west, as opposed to “steps east” which would take you east.  I think the stopping point is the edge of the concrete or the tree.  I can’t tell for sure.  Maybe try due west through the center checkerboard.

erexere

The reason you can take more steps is that it takes you to a spot that doesnt allow further travel.  The number of steps will fit something, what, I’m not sure, but it really diesnt matter because the start and end of the path are limited.

Very possibly; I can’t think of a better interpretation.

We need to generate some new ideas people! Since verse 6 seems to be back in Charleston, I went back to pondering verse 10 for NY. Someone mentioned that Hard Words used to refer to dictionaries, which got me thinking about books.  What if the word “branch” in the verse is referring to a library branch?  There is a Fort Hamilton Library Branch in Brooklyn. We’ve ben assuming, too, that the “sign” in the verse refers to the entrance to the Fiort, but it could just as easily be referring to the library sign.
If you zoom into the library in Google and then look at the satellite view, you’ll see it’s right next to the “v”-shaped park, Fort Hamilton Memorial Park. I realize that if you take steps from the middle of one branch, you could be taking them from the library or from one of the branches of the v. I think both possibilities are worth exploring.  Anyone live in Brooklyn?  I can get there, but it’s a real pain for me. Here’s the link to the library.
http://www.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/br … pageid=170

Hi I’m new to the game. How do we know that it is officially not in Central Park?
http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=754&p=13089&hilit=Central+Park#p13089
Because, BP said there wasn’t a casque buried there…
Not to sound rude or to start a fight but I can’t believe a cut and paste e-mail. I need more proof please??? Why would BP even want to help?

Bailey4ever

Hi I’m new to the game. How do we know that it is officially not in Central Park?

Mister EZ

http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=754&p=13089&hilit=Central+Park#p13089
Because, BP said there wasn’t a casque buried there…

Bailey4ever

Not to sound rude or to start a fight but I can’t believe a cut and paste e-mail. I need more proof please??? Why would BP even want to help?

Well, in my opinion, that’s kind of like saying, ‘fox, you’re a liar’. Considering the contributions fox has made for just about 2 decades, I don’t think that’s the case.
That post (and, the email) was from 2004, 22 years after the book was released. 14 years ago.
Maybe fox still has the e-mail….but, probably not. It’s not like we can zombify BP or hold a seance, asking him if he actually sent an email about Central Park, in order to give you ‘proof’.
So, believe whatever you want to believe.
Everybody else does….lately…..

Bailey4ever

Not to sound rude or to start a fight but I can’t believe a cut and paste e-mail. I need more proof please??? Why would BP even want to help?

Well, in my opinion, that’s kind of like saying, ‘fox, you’re a liar’. Considering the contributions fox has made for just about 2 decades, I don’t think that’s the case.
That post (and, the email) was from 2004, 22 years after the book was released. 14 years ago.
Maybe fox still has the e-mail….but, probably not. It’s not like we can zombify BP or hold a seance, asking him if he actually sent an email about Central Park, in order to give you ‘proof’.
So, believe whatever you want to believe.
Everybody else does….lately…..
Thanks for the info. I actually feel it’s a brilliant move. How else can one block off an entire 843 acres all to themselves. So no I’m not saying it’s a lie just maybe a well played move.

maltedfalcon

it could be, but then you need to explain the “in the shadow of”
is that an actual description or a metaphor
and regardless, then if an object in Central park is your clue
you somehow need to get of the park to find the casque location since we know it is not in central park.

Hi I’m new to the game. How do we know that it is officially not in Central Park?

Bailey4ever

Hi I’m new to the game. How do we know that it is officially not in Central Park?

http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=754&p=13089&hilit=Central+Park#p13089
Because, BP said there wasn’t a casque buried there…

Look at the position of the hands and arms of the statue and compare them to the image. Also look at the face/nose of the Mad Hatter and compare them to the face on the front of the robe in the image. Any connection?…..
https://st.depositphotos.com/2619031/45 … 2-2013.jpg

umm…….for that, you might wanna go to the image thread, this is the verse thread

Unknown

Unknown:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I have the feeling the line “The natives still remember” followed by “Him of Hard word in 3 vols.” is not a hint for Native Indians. I think the point of using the word “natives” is to be misleading, allowing us to jump to the Native Indian idea, while it’s intent is to draw us to a President reference, since a natural born Citizen is a “native”, see Section I Article II of the US Constitution on the office of the President requires:
The point of using the word “Hard” has three significances: 1) proper noun capitalization, 2) a hard word may be assumed to be a curse or swear (cooperates with notion of swearing in or taking the oath of office), and 3) a US President having the word “Hard” in their name: Warren G. Harding.
I’m back on the Harding Monument in Stanley Park, Vancouver B.C. I think the point of “3 vols.” isn’t a reference to a book, but a reference to the three granite slab stones, those on the left and right contain words of his speech, and the third one in the middle has a profile of his face: three blocks of granite = 3 vols.

Just posting my more complete idea here, in the correct thread:
Possible reference in Verse 10:
“[T]he smatterer in science … thinks, that by mouthing
hard words
, he proves that he understands hard things.”
—Herman Melville, “White Jacket,” Ch. 63 (1850).
That is from one of Melville’s books. Not Moby Dick, which was written in
3 volumes
.
Here’s an excerpt from a page from The Life and Works of Herman Melville:
Joseph Conrad:
“Years ago I looked into Typee and Omoo, but as I didn’t find there what I am looking for when I open a book I did go no further. Lately I had in my hand Moby Dick. It struck me as a rather strained
rhapsody
with whaling for a subject and not a single sincere line in the
3 vols
of it.” –Letter to Humphrey Milford, January 15 1907
http://www.melville.org/others.htm
Interestingly, Melville wrote 3 books in a row, 1 year apart from each other:
Pierre (the Houston verse)
Moby Dick (published in 3 vols)
White Jacket (hard words quote above)
Verse 10 mentions “The natives still speak of him of Hard word in 3 vols.”
This could be interpreted as some people referring to someone, and doing it in 3 volumes.
However, based on the above quotes, I think the better interpretation is that “him of Hard word in 3 vols” should be read together as simply referring to Herman Melville.
It is a “cute and clever” way of referring to him. A famous quote of his mentions “hard word,” and he is also the man who published a famous “3 volumes.” So, it is a double reference to Melville.
I know there is a sign in NYC referring to the birthplace of Melville, near many of the other clues in verse 10. So, this line could be referring to that sign.

Egbert

Verse 10 mentions “The natives still speak of him of Hard word in 3 vols.”
This could be interpreted as some people referring to someone, and doing it in 3 volumes.
However, based on the above quotes, I think the better interpretation is that “him of Hard word in 3 vols” should be read together as simply referring to Herman Melville.
It is a “cute and clever” way of referring to him. A famous quote of his mentions “hard word,” and he is also the man who published a famous “3 volumes.” So, it is a double reference to Melville.
I know there is a sign in NYC referring to the birthplace of Melville, near many of the other clues in verse 10. So, this line could be referring to that sign.

I think that’s a strong suggestion, also I would add that Rhapsodic Man is a reference to Gershwin, do you feel this is correct based on what (you and Siskel) know about BP? Or is this a reference to something blue maybe?

It would certainly seem that “rhapsodic man” refers to Gershwin. Siskel found out that according to BP’s daughter, he would listen to Gershwin all the time.
The huge problem with the NYC casque is that most of the verse clues take you to southern Manhattan (Melville, Indies native, cars abound on a ferry, whirring sound of heliport, etc.), but some of the clues from the verse and Image 12 take you to Brooklyn (Gershwin’s soil, McCarren Park, Fort Hamilton, Prospect Park, etc.).
It appears to me that the location of the treasure is wherever the “slender path” and the “branch of the v” are. Good luck finding that!

There’s a Gershwin Hotel in NYC, but I can’t say how long it’s been called that, or if it’s near anything else of note.
The problem with NYC is there just isn’t that much soil, let alone Rhapsodic soil

At the park, were there any guides or information about the specific types of trees growing there by any chance?

Willymac

Priess being a Brooklyn native, who attended Fort Hamilton high school, this narrows my gaze to south western Brooklyn.)

Willymac

In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
(McKinley park, where I believe the casque to be buried, is right off of the BQE, where you hear plenty of whirring and cars abound)

Willymac

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vol.
(Another US president, William McKinley. In the direct vicinity there is McKinley Park, McKinley elementary and McKinley junior high. Which, one could consider might be the three hard volumes, or permanent fixtures)

Preiss did not attend Fort Hamilton High School.
The hint Preiss provides for the Japanese edition tells us the whirring sound comes from a mechanical device that requires human power for locomotion. He also gives a specific season. Does the BQE only make whirring sounds in the summer? Granted, one can read the verse and chop it in such a way as to not read the summer line in connection with the whirring sound, but I only bring that up to point out that theory exists. I’m more inclined to lean toward the interpretation that in the summer time you will hear a noise Preiss describes as a “whir” made by a device requiring human power to provide locomotion.
Take a look at the Japanese hints for this verse. They seem to solidify some of the angles to approach this verse with. Is there any connection between McKinley and the whole “Chicken” thing that’s mentioned in the Japanese hint?

http://imgur.com/gallery/7YU1ERn
Found Byron’s yearbook awhile ago. I should share this. I hope the link works.

Harley Quinn

http://imgur.com/gallery/7YU1ERn
Found Byron’s yearbook awhile ago. I should share this. I hope the link works.

Well that settles that.
Awesome work!

First of all, yearbook find is awesome. Thanks harley!
My apologies. Not sure where I read he attended fort Hamilton high school. Regardless. The neighborhood of midwood is still southwestern Brooklyn.
Where can I read this Japanese translation? And this is not a sarcastic question, but why is it that we hold a translation into Japanese with such high regard? Japanese and English are notoriously incompatible languages. I can’t speak for this exact verse but there are many things that don’t translate concisely into Japanese.
Again. I’m very new at this. Just trying to learn.

First of all, yearbook find is awesome. Thanks harley!
My apologies. Not sure where I read he attended fort Hamilton high school. Regardless. The neighborhood of
midwood
is still southwestern Brooklyn.
Where can I read this Japanese translation? And this is not a sarcastic question, but why is it that we hold a translation into Japanese with such high regard? Japanese and English are notoriously incompatible languages. I can’t speak for this exact verse but there are many things that don’t translate concisely into Japanese.
Again. I’m very new at this. Just trying to learn.

I’m a total secret noob. But I live in NYC. And want to throw my hat in the ring on the possible solution/connection between image 12/verse 10.
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
(The Verrazano bridge is grey, and at the time of publication was the largest bridge of its kind in the world. Priess being a Brooklyn native, who attended Fort Hamilton high school, this narrows my gaze to south western Brooklyn.)
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
(This part I admittedly do not understand as of yet. But keep reading)
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
(McKinley park, where I believe the casque to be buried, is right off of the BQE, where you hear plenty of whirring and cars abound)
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
(The indies native has been understood to describe Alexander Hamilton. All the signs right near McKinley are for the Hamilton ave exit of the BQE)
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vol.
(Another US president, William McKinley. In the direct vicinity there is McKinley Park, McKinley elementary and McKinley junior high. Which, one could consider might be the three hard volumes, or permanent fixtures)
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
(McKinley park is situated in a very distinct V shape)
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
(Below (or south of) the halfway point of the south branch of the v, is St. Ephrams Church. The church windows are all shaped like the arch in image 12. Also, St ephram was a quite musical saint, and known for composing many hymns/songs)
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B
(Liberty island, or Bedloe island is more or less directly north of here)
Also, a further reason, and actually the thing that lead me to this location, is the “twin tower silhouette” In image 12. From McKinley park, if you could have looked at the WTC when it was standing, the south tower would have eclipsed the north tower. Meaning, from that point it would have looked like just one tower)
Let me know what you guys think! But I really have a strange feeling about this hunch.

Unknown

Unknown:
Again. I’m very new at this. Just trying to learn.

Welcome, you can’t learn by posting theory….you learn by searching and reading, and then more searching and more reading…..

Willymac

First of all, yearbook find is awesome. Thanks harley!
Where can I read this Japanese translation? And this is not a sarcastic question, but why is it that we hold a translation into Japanese with such high regard? Japanese and English are notoriously incompatible languages. I can’t speak for this exact verse but there are many things that don’t translate concisely into Japanese.

You are correct about the incompatible languages bit. The Japanese edition of the book has an additional section accompanying the verses, in which various “Keywords” are listed for each verse, and hints are provided for said keywords that may have had translation issues if taken at face value.
These notes/hints were added to the book by the Japanese translator after speaking on the phone with Byron Preiss.
Goldengate posted some scans of the Japanese verses on
page 15 of The Clues In the Book Thread
Burnstyle also posted a link of an audio translation of that portion of the Japenese edition.
Burnstyle’s audio translation
Here are a
good set of notes WhiteRabbit put together
based on the audio – listing the keywords and then the translated text based on the audio conversation burnstyle posted.

Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Columbus.  Wasn’t an Indies native, but he was there.  For butchery and slavery.  Maybe there’s intention here to make us think that “HIM” is an Indies native.  The way it’s worded, does HE have to be?
Hard Word- If I’m writing history on the Indies, hard word on Columbus and the Indies is the beginning.
Maybe there’s a statue of him with the history of that time speaking about indies torture.
Christopher Columbus Drive-downtown Jersey City by our church?
Columbus Circle- uptown Manhattan by central park?

or it could also just simply be a referance to a “musical” statue or monument.  perhaps a Bach, Beethoven, etc…..

Sorry Stercox, you may be right.  I don’t see any other way of finding Rhapsodic man now until it is stumbled upon when the middle of one branch of the v is found first.
adoks53, is Thomas Edison a Rhapsodic man?

Sorry for the delay folks.  Had some issues and couldn’t go to JPJ Park.  I will go this Tuesday, I promise.
i didn’t mean to keep you guys hanging.  I know what that’s like.

another day gone and still no word?

fox, can you call him and make sure everything’s ok?

Verse 10:
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.

“In the shadow
Of the grey giant”
“Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path”
Probably a tree or rock outcropping, and not a statue.
“.. the sign Nearby
Speaks of Indies native”
A park history sign, perhaps?  Might that be the East Indies or West Indies?  A native of a foreign land, who became famous enough for the locals to erect a sign.
“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
There is a play on words there, i can feel it.  Can I ask if this capitalization is in the book?

Yes Cat…that is how the line is capitalized.  A play on words you think?  Either that, or the person referred to sure pissed off the natives.

Out of curiosity, why would native New Yorkers still speak of Dickens? The verse implies that talking about this person would be routine or commonplace. How does Dickens do this for NY?

is Dickens an indies native?

Ha!

“There has come down only a single Native American tale describing the eventual disappearance of the “Shining Ones,” an account of the Nootka people of Vancouver Island, British Columbia . . .” (p. 24).

I may be heading to Brooklyn soon.  Nothing related to the hunt but will try to squeeze this in.  That part of the city is a nightmare to get around though.  Keep the thoughts flowing.  I still need convincing.
http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T … 40.6680699

Here’s what I’m thinking…
The first four lines do lead to a road.  That’s I 278, and the Verrazano is part of that.  After what Slappy said, the next line is key, “In summer”. In summer, in summer, in summer!
The seasons in the North East are very distinct.  There are winter activities and summer activities.  Spring and fall eliminate any winter activity but you can still cast a fishing reel, go boating, cycling, running, and even visit an amusement park. (Coney Island)
Did BP put “summer” in there to specify a certain event that only happens around the Verrazano in the summer?  Or is it something you can do in the North East
only
during the summer?  Swim, sun bathe, neither of which cause a whirring sound.  Plus, on a beach, there are no “cars abound”, a phrase that has to mean near the bridge itself. humm…
We’ve all speculated quite well ,I may add, as to Hamilton, the V, rhapsodic man, and the isle of B, but without “in summer” and “whirring” we really can’t nail this down.  I think that is how close we really are.

Helicopter ride. That takes care of both “summer” and “whirring.”

You know, that’s the first thing i thought of 4 years ago.  You can take helicopter rides in the winter as well, just not in a snow storm.

I have been looking at hundreds of photos of the
Statue of Liberty.  (Never seen it in person.)
In photos it looks really more green than grey.
Why call it grey?…Are we looking at the right “giant”?
AP

Hey AP.  In image12, there’s that grey rectangular shape in the arch window.  I have been taking that to be Two WTC (or tower two, 110 stories, GIANT), where there used to be an observation deck on the roof.  I believe BP wanted us there to see the Verrazano extending over the slender Narrows path.  The Statue of Liberty in the image puts us in that harbor.  There is a photo of that view somewhere here in this thread.  If BP put both towers in image12, this would have been solved 20 years ago.
edit: the statue of liberty is made from copper-which turns green over time.

Hey there, Boogie.
Thanks.
I see now how the giant does not necessarily refer to the Statue of Liberty.
I have also been looking at the line “him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
The word “Hard” can also mean “Steele”. ..as in “Sir Richard Steele” , who co-wrote
“The Tatler”, the”Spectator” and “The Guardian”. ..But what connection can he
have to an area in New York?…Why would the “natives” still speak of him?
AP

boogieman

You know, that’s the first thing i thought of 4 years ago.  You can take helicopter rides in the winter as well, just not in a snow storm.

No doubt. But are they
offered
in the winter?  I know when I was using this verse for Niagara Falls, that’s what I found–that they aren’t offered in the wintertime–only the summer.

FWIW, the inscription inside the Statue of Liberty is titled “The New Colossus”.  Colossus = Giant.  Here’s a link to a Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_ … nscription

Unknown

Unknown:
I have also been looking at the line “him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
The word “Hard” can also mean “Steele”. ..as in “Sir Richard Steele” , who co-wrote
“The Tatler”, the”Spectator” and “The Guardian”

There are also the authors:
Jared Diamond and Oliver Stone…did they write noteworthy volumes that the
New York folk would be talking about?

Jambone

FWIW, the inscription inside the Statue of Liberty is titled “The New Colossus”.  Colossus = Giant.  Here’s a link to a Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_ … nscription

The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Emma Lazarus, 1883

Someone with some free time on their hands (i.e., not me) can browse these to look for NYC connections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_(surname)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_(disambiguation)#people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_(surname)

Reading the verse lines they seem they are paired in twos.
So instead of reading the three lines together:
Although the sign
Nearby
speaks of indies native
Could be:
Cars abound
Although the sign (as in no parking/cars not allowed in the area)
Nearby
Speaks of indies native
Not that it makes much a difference.

jayheedan1

Not that it makes much a difference.

Yes it does, because based on 21 lines total, I don’t see how you can pair 2 lines together without leaving 1 line behind, Unless you do 1.5 lines per pair….
If we are reading it like…
“
grey giant Find the arm that
“
( big grey is looking for an arm )
it will make a huge difference.

The “Grey Giant” is Belvedere Castle in Central Park.

More thoughts on  this…
1. Hard word in 3 vols.  This really threw me. But… Hard words, books? 3 Vols. The Library of Congress consists of 3 buildings. Jefferson(rhapsodic man?), Adams, and Madison.
2.The face could be a combo of 2 of these and the collars go with this style.
3.The cap…Capital hill?
4.39 N 76 W  D.C lat and long.
5.Perhaps the dogleg ironwork is found on the grounds.
6.Twice as many east steps as the hour or more from the middle of one branch of the v…from the middle of the Jefferson building?
Just musings here. I’m thinking this goes with image #9.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/maps/images/map.gif
What do y’all think? Lafitte

thanks boogieman
but hey, i’ve had 1000 of other ideas since then, lol
like, “him of hard word” sounding like american indian talk to me, i keep hearing it in my head like that, lol, so i’ve wasted hours on looking for an american indian, or even to sheridan who had “hard words” to say about the indians. like, “the only good indian is……”
but i’m thinking now, the image is russian, so i think we have to find something russian
and instead of the narrows “bridge” (the slender path), all of that around manhattan is called “the narrows”, right?
so i’m looking at  all bridges that might have a reference to “summer”
and then i just read this,
“But for real taste of Russia go to Brighton Beach in Brooklyn!”
and then, i wanna keep in mind, it could still be any verse
or any image, lol  ( i still think image 9 is dutch and the obvious one for new york! so i’ve been looking up ironworks too for that stupid dogleg, and yes i know there is one in montreal
) (there’s also a building i bookmarked that reminded me of the zigzag from image 9, close to battery park, i’ll see if i can find it, but i couldn’t get a front view, just an angle)
my problem i can’t just stick to one area….maybe we should set up teams for each area (new jersey, manhattan, staten island, brooklyn and all the others)
that “whirring sound” has to be an airport road or ferry, wouldn’t you think?
lucky my life doesn’t depend on solving this…i’d be dead, lol
in my notes on the fair people (if there is any value to it), the russian one has 2 for economic (which makes me think of brighton beach) and 2 informational (signs, markers….), 2 social, (1 household, 1 political, 1 environmental, 1 regional)
whatever that might mean, i’m not even sure if i could figure out how i figured that out…
sorry to go on so long about NOTHING!! late night and this puzzle drives me  bonkers
here’s the zigzag house:
http://flickr.com/photos/wallyg/2977231 … 141231424/

The Narrows Inlet is just that.  The part of the Hudson Bay the narrows between Brooklyn and Statin Island that lets ships into NY from the sea.  To me, The Verrazano is the only bridge that extends over the slender path.  The other bridges in NYC either cross the Husdon or East Rivers.  From there, I’m open to anything.

Another twist on rhapsodic man.
Adj. 1. rhapsodic – feeling great rapture or delight
ecstatic, enraptured, rapt, rapturous
joyous – full of or characterized by joy; “felt a joyous abandon”; “joyous laughter”

Nice.
http://forthamiltonhighschool.net/alumni-list-p.html

Nobody wants to come with me. They all think i’m nuts.
It may take a few stabs at the dirt. If Fox comes back out to NY again I’ll go, but not until. Meanwhile, feel free to go. It’s there.

Unknown

Unknown:
SIR WALTER SCOTT BART
of
Abbotsford
HIS . GURNAL*
Vol. I
As I walked by myself
I talkd to my self
And thus my self said to me
Old Song.
A
hard word
so spelld on the Authority of Miss Scott now Mrs. Lockhart

Unknown

Unknown:
The Elliott estate at 122 76th St. was copied after “Abbotsford,” the home of Sir Walter Scott near Melrose, Scotland.

Re: hard words, It’s previously been pointed out by AP and others that the title page of Sir Walter Scott’s Journal includes the inscription:
…also that it was published in 3 vols, that there’s a statue of him in Central Park (along with Hamilton), and that there’s a replica of his “Abbotsford” home at 122 76th Street, which is just half a dozen blocks away from the school.
http://www.pssatrap.org/road-to-yesterd … Part-2.htm

John A. MacDonald, the “Old Chieftan”, first Prime Minister of Canada comes to mind when I think about “the grey giant” from what might be a Lowland Gnome perspective.
John A. Macdonald Totally Looks Like Hans Christian Andersen – Cheezburger
http://cheezburger.com/6886799360
I like this comparison if hair-do: (John with Hans in the bottom right)

If you want to go dig it up, go to Hamilton high School in Brooklyn. Find the steps going down into Shore park. They are
directly across the street from the school. When you get to the bottom, go left until you are directly in front of the entrance to the school. You’ll be looking uphill at it and you will see the clock. You’ll find yourself standing at the v. Bedloe’s Island and the Statue of Liberty are to the North. Have fun.

BTW, Byron Preiss graduated from Fort Hamilton HS in 1968.

The clock in the top of the image is shaped as a square symbolizing Times Square. This is definitely in New York somewhere.

In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
(There is a “George Washington Bridge Heliport”)
Cars abound
(George Washington Bridge is said to be one of the
busiest bridges in New York, with over 300,000 cars
per day crossing it.)
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
(There is an Alexander Hamilton Bridge just East of the
George Washington Bridge)
But where is the isle of B?
AP

Fox: That terrific picture you posted of Fort Washington Park is taken from the southern walkway of the Geroge Washington Bridge.  The picture also includes Riverside Park which is stretching away to the south.  You can see how close the Hamilton Heights neighborhood is to the bridge,  with Riverside Park begining just past those tennis courts.  Washington Heights and Hamilton Heights are contiguous neighborhoods, but only Hamilton Heights is in the shadow the Great Grey Bridge.
And , as Animal Painter pointed out, there are other connections to Alexander Hamilton in upper Manhattan:  The Alexander Hamilton bridge is just across the narrow neck of Manhattan from the George Washington Bridge,  and connects Manhattan with the Bronx, spanning the Harlem River.
So I believe that this area is worth investigating and examining in our quest for the casque.

That’s good thinking, Kato – worth a trip to that area, Boogie?
Interesting coincidence – yesterday I was flying over Manhattan toward Laguardia (one stop on a 3-leg trip) and got the best view of New York Harbor and Manhattan I’ve ever had. What a beautiful city! I couldn’t spot the casque from that high
but I did notice the George Washington Bridge, and thought to myself that the openings in its supports look an awful lot like the ones in the Narrows bridge (which I also saw from the air), which in turn look like the outline of P12. I didn’t know there was a Hamilton connection, too.
Worth investigating up close!

Very interesting stuff indeed Kato.  I was surprised to find “in the shadow of the “Great Gray Bridge.”” while doing a little research on the Ft Washington Park.  Web page is here:
http://www.fortwashingtonpark.com/
Look at the pic on that website while reading these lines of the V:
“From the middle of one branch
Of the v”
hmmmmmm

treetops

Also in keeping with the water theme, the “isle of B” is problematic for Hartford, unless we’re looking for a traffic island or some other non-obvious implementation.

This has been one of my big stopping points. Every time I look at Hartford and get excited about something I find, I tell myself “if you’re so sure, why can’t you find an isle of anything?”
When I came up with the Hartford idea, I threw it at a bunch of people who know the area and asked them for ideas. One got really into it, and naturally he went straight back to NYC for image 12, verse 10. I’m not sure whether I should post it here, the image thread, or its own thread, but I get the feeling that the people working on this read every thread, so I’ll just put it here. I searched and only found a couple of references to the park from 2003 and 2008, so I think it’s worth a fresh look.
Here’s the Google Document he wrote out with his ideas and confidence level (for someone diving headfirst into it, he did a really good job of evaluating how sure he is.)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jww … &forcehl=1
In the shadow of the grey giant
-Statue of Liberty or Verrazano Narrows Bridge (confidence low)
Find the arm that Extends over the slender path
-Verrazano Narrows spans the slender/narrow path (confidence high)
In summer you’ll often hear a whirring sound
-Helicopters? Boats? (no confidence specified)
Cars abound
-It’s a bridge in NYC. Cars are everywhere (confidence medium)
Although the sign nearby Speaks of indies native
-Fort Hamilton [Alexander Hamilton is from the West Indies] is on the east side of the bridge (confidence high)
The natives still speak of him of hard words in 3 vols
-“Hard words” are words with 3 or more syllables. John Paul Jones has 3 syllables, JPJ also served the Russians for a Russian tie-in (confidence low – this is a stretch.)
Take twice as many steps east as the hour Or more
-22 steps? Curiously, there are 22 cables between the eastern tower of the V-N bridge and the east end. (no confidence specified)
From the middle branch of the V
-V = Verrazano Narrows Bridge OR the north end of the park could be the inverted V, and starting in the middle of the west branch, take 22 steps east (confidence medium)
Look down And see simple roots
-Eugene Dynkin discovered the mathematical concept of “simple roots” and he’s Russian (low confidence – this is a stretch and seems to have not ties to the location)
In Rhapsodic man’s soil
-JPJ once said “I have not yet begun to fight, which sounds Rhapsodic [non-musical definition] to me. (confidence medium)
Or gaze north Toward the Isle of B
-Liberty Island used to be called Bedloe’s Island (confidence med. – a number of islands in the area used to start with “B”)
Images (links for full size)
http://i.imgur.com/GydU0Bl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9P0rII8.jpg
Verrazano Narrows Bridge. I did a quick google image search and this does not appear to be a common bridge design.
http://i.imgur.com/DBbh7Bb.png
http://i.imgur.com/IKrytEz.png
I looked at many windows from many buildings, and this was the only one that had the same segments of the picture. And it’s from the cathedral below
The domes used to be pale green (they’re copper). They were replaced recently. This Cathedral is in brooklyn but quite a distance from John Paul Jones park
This monument is a few blocks away from John Paul Jones park on the wedge where 5th splits off from 4th
Squint
I think this indicates where the casque is buried. Find something that looks like this in the park and that is where to dig.
From what I can tell using Google and Bing maps, this is the only rectangular monument in the park. When viewed from the side, it has the same shape as the picture.
Go back up to the map, where the purple arrow is pointing. It is pointing exactly on the side of this monument, the far side in this picture.
__________________
I asked if he was OK with me sharing it here and he would appreciate it. I think it was someone here who said “I wouldn’t dig there, but I’d watch you do it” and that’s how I feel about this solution. If the monument was a perfect match, I’d be convinced, but I have my reservations. We’d love any feedback and criticism you have to offer.

Randall’s Island?

gqchu

Randall’s Island?

No, this one!
https://tinyurl.com/y92c75xu
https://tinyurl.com/ycomcatk

Was the baseball field’s name firefighters field in the early 80’s? Cause the flower she’s holding looks like fireworks and the long stem is Roosevelt island like.
She’s also pointing east and her fingers form capital E for east river?

Choice

Was the baseball field’s name firefighters field in the early 80’s? Cause the flower she’s holding looks like fireworks and the long stem is Roosevelt island like.
She’s also pointing east and her fingers form capital E for east river?

Firefighters field did not exist back then at all

Pet theory:
Rotated 90 degrees right, the red-lined rectangle represents the driveway/pathway in front of Fort Hamilton High School. The flower held by the figure in the image identifies the tree under or near which to dig.
There’s a tree in almost exactly that spot, one of the only ones in that area in existence in 1980:
And 1987:
Of course, thanks to the recent paving of the area–which has been going on for four years, apparently!?–it’s gone.

Shseverin,  Sorry if my map above is confusing.  The spot is almost exactly against the bridge support, directly in line with the gazebo and Liberty island which is north.  At the foot of branch #5.
edit: drawing with the mouse I find to be most difficult!

believe me my boogie friend, I would love to visit the apple again and focus on digging this thing up…especially since you gave the little one the “key”
but alas, I do not see that happening anytime in the near future.  I have the fondest memories of meeting a fellow hunter at the spot we thought had to be it and actually digging for a SECRET casque.  Empty handed and a bit muddied but wow… what an afternoon.  Take him up on his offer Ringo…and go help him unearth the 3rd of 12.

Toward the isle of B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitus_Bering
This early Danish explorer (employed by Russia) might be a candidate for the Isle of B reference. This is only based on several mentions in the Secret about early explorers. If this verse connects to the Opal carrying Lowland Gnomes, then I could see this as a possibility. What “Isle” this actually relates to is tough to say. I’m still hoping it relates to Stanley Park in Vancouver BC. I think its important to pause and look into the first or earliest explorations relating to each culture.

erexere

Toward the isle of B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitus_Bering
This early Danish explorer (employed by Russia) might be a candidate for the Isle of B reference. This is only based on several mentions in the Secret about early explorers. If this verse connects to the Opal carrying Lowland Gnomes, then I could see this as a possibility. What “Isle” this actually relates to is tough to say. I’m still hoping it relates to Stanley Park in Vancouver BC. I think its important to pause and look into the first or earliest explorations relating to each culture.

Explain where you’re going with this, please. Russian connection?

There’s not much to explain yet. It’s more of a logical basis since most people would agree the immigration and cultural origins are involved, such as the Ponce deLeon landing in Florida example for the Spanish puzzle, then this early Danish explorer for Russia may allow us to find a location favoring either the Opal of the Lowland Gnomes or the Topaz for the Rusalki, depending on whether Preiss maintained such a basis in his design.

erexere

There’s not much to explain yet. It’s more of a logical basis since most people would agree the immigration and cultural origins are involved, such as the Ponce deLeon landing in Florida example for the Spanish puzzle, then this early Danish explorer for Russia may allow us to find a location favoring either the Opal of the Lowland Gnomes or the Topaz for the Rusalki, depending on whether Preiss maintained such a basis in his design.

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. You are a font of knowledge.

I took some time researching the various statues of Robert Burns in Canada. Three in particular stand out as far as I can tell. There are a few variations like a bust or Burns in a kneeling or reclined position, but the three most popular works are all by George Anderson Lawson of Edinburgh of the Scottish Lowlands.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
It could be that the natives are remembering words of Burns, memorialized in 3 statues across the Canada. These are located in Victoria Park, Halifax (Nova Scotia), in Dominion Square of Montreal, and Stanley Park of Vancouver BC.

I like the idea of it being volumes of art work. Nicely done!

Playing with this theme, could maybe be a reference to 3rd regiment volunteers New York?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_New … y_Regiment
Any clues to Frederick Townsend, maybe at the Grand Army Plaza at Prospect Park?
I’m mobile right now, tough to search stuff.

gManTexas

Playing with this theme, could maybe be a reference to 3rd regiment volunteers New York?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_New … y_Regiment
Any clues to Frederick Townsend, maybe at the Grand Army Plaza at Prospect Park?
I’m mobile right now, tough to search stuff.

g – I believe you have just elevated yourself to “rockstar status”. Good job!

karleen

g – I believe you have just elevated yourself to “rockstar status”. Good job!

That will be when I loft a casque to the sky like Excalibur!

Boogie, you and I are on the same page.
I liked the natives still speak of him, because when this book was written Led Zeppelin was pretty big so NY’ers would definitely be talking.
And Fort Hamilton is the sign of the Indies Native.
I like this too, unfortunately I was going to go in on Sunday, but the weather is looking bad.
Oh well, soon.

I wish I could go bemo.  My daughters birthday is today and Sunday I will be marching in the St Patrick’s Day Parade in Belmar NJ.   but Fox is right.  Have a look around and maybe your eye’s will see something relevant.  I would only clutter your thoughts.
Hard word, hard rock lyrics, Led Zeppelin…none of it seems to relate to an indies native.  Unless we can find something connecting Zeppelin to Hamilton.  Wait…. I got it.
Although the sign
nearby
speaks of
indies
native
Fort Hamilton
the natives still speak
of Him of Hard word in 3 vols.
The natives here are New Yorkers who have named a park (still speak) after an english native named JPJ the Navy hero.
But the name is also connected to a hard rock lyricist from England who was the main force in Led Zeppelin’s I, II and III albums.
This is why BP has the word Although in there.  Although there is an indies native across the street, the local natives still speak of an English native JPJ by naming a park after him.  A composer and lyricist of hard rock albums in 3 vols.
I like it.

forest_blight

We could play this game for hours. How about Neil
Diamond
(born in Brooklyn)?

Or by the same token: Jacques CARTIER…(Cartier is a renowned diamond merchant–pretty “hard” word there)
who made 3 “vols” to the New World. Vols is the French word for “flights”, i.e., trips.
Of course, that would probably put this verse in Canada, near Quebec–not NYC.
The “Isle of B” could be the straits of Belle Isle, where Cartier sailed on his 2nd voyage up the St. Lawrence river.
The “natives” (Indians) are still talking about those voyages, since they figure prominently in their history.
I posted this theory before.

Thanks CW.  I missed my images and verses.  I own two books.  One is still in NC and the other……who knows.  Maybe we donated it accidentally.  Your link was excellent.

boogie try this
http://tweleve.org/upload/secret.rename_to_zip_please

erexere

The three forgotten giant checker boards that use galvanized pipe style checker pieces has an appealing quality considering a pipe might be thought of as a root in the soil.  Do those look like “giant grey” tiles?
As it was 30 years ago, it wouldn’t know if those exact pieces were getting any action, but the quote from the article (see image9 thread) made it sound like they had been requested sometime around 27 years ago.  (sounds like a strange number to make up…I wonder if there is a sign out sheet for the key to the closet that shows the date last checked out like a library book…).

I want to reiterate this checker board discovery as applied to the line “look down and see simple roots”.
Checkers is considered simple compared to chess which uses the same basic board.  This giant ground inlay checker board includes checker playing pieces.  30 years ago was practically the last time someone used those actual pieces!
What kind of roots are we seeing when we look down? We see squares…8 x 8  = 64.  The squareROOT of 64 is 8.
The checker patterns in image 9 and the contemplative pose of the renaissance character really persuades me to consider this “thinking at the board” approach.

ap your right i forgot the EAST directional,the V by the B field fits better
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h … 82#p110982
the V at the Bfield fits better
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h … 55#p111055

The two lines where “Natives speak” had me wondering if there is emphasis on the word “speak” for the reason that it might apply to a dog’s “bark”.  Bark is also the skin of a tree.  Native Indians used trees for many thi  I’m thinking either totem poles or canoes have a significance in this puzzle.
“Hard word” seems like a curse.  Something hard and also a word…perhaps hard as stone, a stone curse then?  Why is Hard capitalized?  I’ve previously jumped to the conclusion od the Harding Memorial of Stanley Park.  This is in the sense that Hard is a variant on the Presidents name.  The word hard is typically an ordinary adjective.  Perhaps this instance of capitalization is similar to the case where common pronouns Him, His, or He are capitalized to reference God.  “Hard word” could then mean God-like word.  An alternate consideration stems from the line about simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil.  Simple is the opposite of hard.  Does this offer insight into some situation where a word is difficult?  What difficult word could this be about in the minds of Natives?  Are Natives necessarily Native Americans?  Natives could be local domestic people.  Any foreign word might be difficult for locals.  There might be a lot of interesting possibilities with this.
Something particular to Stanley Park occurred to me.  A note on Siwash Rock says it shares the alternate name “Nine-Pin Rock”.  Ninr -pin is the European version and precursor to American 10-pin bowling.  The word rhapsodic is a synonym for joyous.  Leaping to Beethoven’s Ode to Joy, I wonder if it connects with the number 9, (9th Symphony, 9-pin, 9 o’clock gun).  I do like that Siwash Rock is the result of the four great chief’s cursing the young chief thus immortalizing him as a stone monument to Clean Fatherhood.  I also like the note that word siwash is considered a pejorative term in some contexts.

The two lines where “Natives speak” had me wondering if there is emphasis on the word “speak” for the reason that it might apply to a dog’s “bark”.  Bark is also the skin of a tree.  Native Indians used trees for many thi  I’m thinking either totem poles or canoes have a significance in this puzzle.
“Hard word” seems like a curse.  Something hard and also a word…perhaps hard as stone, a stone curse then?  Why is Hard capitalized?  I’ve previously jumped to the conclusion od the
Harding
Memorial of Stanley Park.  This is in the sense that Hard is a variant on the Presidents name.  The word hard is typically an ordinary adjective.  Perhaps this instance of capitalization is similar to the case where common pronouns Him, His, or He are capitalized to reference God.  “Hard word” could then mean God-like word.  An alternate consideration stems from the line about simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil.  Simple is the opposite of hard.  Does this offer insight into some situation where a word is difficult?  What difficult word could this be about in the minds of Natives?  Are Natives necessarily Native Americans?  Natives could be local domestic people.  Any foreign word might be difficult for locals.  There might be a lot of interesting possibilities with this.
Something particular to Stanley Park occurred to me.  A note on Siwash Rock says it shares the alternate name “Nine-Pin Rock”.  Ninr -pin is the European version and precursor to American 10-pin bowling.  The word rhapsodic is a synonym for joyous.  Leaping to Beethoven’s Ode to Joy, I wonder if it connects with the number 9, (9th Symphony, 9-pin, 9 o’clock gun).  I do like that Siwash Rock is the result of the four great chief’s cursing the young chief thus immortalizing him as a stone monument to Clean Fatherhood.  I also like the note that word siwash is considered a pejorative term in some contexts.

There is yet one more “isle of B” near Manhattan.
It is Belmont Island…a small uninhabited piece of
land just south of Roosevelt (Blackwell’s) Island.
So we have at least 3 “isles of B” to consider:
Bedloe’s Island (Liberty)
Blackwell’s Island (Roosevelt)
Belmont Island (U Thant)
With the sign mentioning Hamilton, and Gershwin (rhapsodic man) being
born in Brooklyn, with the shadow of the grey giant (Verrazano) and
the “v”s and “steps” of the park walkways and the yard
arm
present…
I am still more of a fan of JPJ or Shore Rd Park.
AP

animal painter

With the sign mentioning Hamilton, and Gershwin (rhapsodic man) being
born in Brooklyn, with the shadow of the grey giant (Verrazano) and
the “v”s and “steps” of the park walkways and the yard
arm
present…
I am still more of a fan of JPJ or Shore Rd Park.
AP

Me too AP.  But the WTC is still the giant to me.
I have been to JPJ Park many times.  (Battery Park many times.)  Even dug near the John Paul Jones Memorial with Fox.  There are no visual confirmers there except the arches of the bridge, which is image12.  When the snow melts, Shore Park, here I come.

Boogie,
The Shore Rd Park does have its attraction.
The
steps’
existence having been validated by
a park representative, at the right time for BP
to have seen them in the 1970s or 1980s.
As for visual verifiers, the tree in the folds of the
robe may be what we need to recognize the spot.
Boogie, as a native New Yorker, were you familiar
with the earlier names for the three isles of B?
Were these names spoken about in school
or just as a matter of local reference?
AP

I took this boat for five years as my commute to work:
http://www.seastreakusa.com
Same as the circle line tours except from different ports.

The Grey Giant could mean NYC itself.

If anyone ever gets the chance, a dinner cruise out of Perth Amboy NJ is the best way to see the harbor in NYC.  Fox, I’ll set it up for you.  If you took this cruise, you would see that Lady Liberty is in the shadow of what used to be tower 2, and the Verrazano is the arm that extends over the Narrows.  The ship goes under the V, around Liberty island and up the east river.  If you book it on the 4th of July, it anchors by the statue and and you’ll see the greatest fire works show ever.

i like that play on words “toward the isle of B”———-to ward B

Good eye, Slappy!
I didn’t see that before.
It does seem that we will have
several “isle of B”‘s to consider.
Bedloe’s
Blackwell’s (with Belmont nearby)
Buchanan’s
The nearby sign of Hamilton may help us.
I was looking for anything that resembles the
colorful circles to be a location clue…
like a color-lit fountain.
AP

Id go with Gershwin as my first choice, Beethoven second, and Chopin third.

I know this has been mentioned before (digger, trohn), but Windsor, Canada might be a good place to look for clues. It is “in the shadow of the grey giant” (Detroit), and there is a prominent “isle of B” right there in the Detroit River, which one can look north toward. Also, “cars abound” = Detroit in most people’s minds, and we know there’s a Canada casque. Any substance to this?

forest_blight

I know this has been mentioned before (digger, trohn), but Windsor, Canada might be a good place to look for clues. It is “in the shadow of the grey giant” (Detroit), and there is a prominent “isle of B” right there in the Detroit River, which one can look north toward. Also, “cars abound” = Detroit in most people’s minds, and we know there’s a Canada casque. Any substance to this?

I just looked into this preliminarily, and some of the connections i’ve found are fun. I think I am going to look into this for a while today…
just for fun.
det to win -> ambassador bridge -> arm that extends
1410 Drouillard Rd, Windsor, ON N8Y 2R9 -> street view
lady of the lake nearby
seminole st
across from ford plant

Not to mention Chopin park (rhapsodic man?).

forest_blight

Not to mention Chopin park (rhapsodic man?).

gosh buddy, give me a minute. stop spoilin’ it for me!

the annontated shakespeare?

One other thought:
Has Carroll Gardens/Park/Street come up in any solutions. Haven’t seen it mentioned before.
Christmas Carol (Charles Dickens) = Carroll?
Could this just be another line referencing Brooklyn?

phrabbott

Say, do you guys think it’s important that “him of Hard word” is related in some way to the Indies native? I was just thinking about that. Seems silly even in a puzzle to be like, “Though the sign speaks of Winston Churchill, the natives still speak of Eli Manning.”

Let’s take a step back. I know Dickens is the simple answer to the Japanese clue, but how does he make any sense at all in a NY puzzle? Do we really think Hard word implies the word Hard?
I posted this a while back:
That’s how Dickens as an answer reads to me. Especially because it says “still” in the clue. And I still believe that.
I believe that the Japanese clues should be read as spur of the moment clues. From what I understand BP was on a phone call with the Japanese editor. My interpretation is that maybe it’s as simple as “him of Hard word” has a name like Richard with hard disguised by a CH sound. How does BP hint that? With a CH word. He quickly digs for said word and comes up with… Chicken. Just one example of how I think that clue can be read.
Can you support the Dickens idea further than the Chicken clue? It would be one thing if anything at all in NYC referenced Dickens. (2006 Roosevelt island sign doesn’t count). Just curious before we dive further down the rabbit hole of finding things that may harken to Dickens.

Just for fun – which puzzle do you think Dickens would fit into the best?

I agree. Not easy to figure out why Dickens was ‘invoked’ in NY verse. Interestingly, I read some theories that predated the Japanese hints and there were several members that pointed to ‘Hard Times’ from “Household Words.” Also, not many books written in three volumes.
There could have been other reasons Preiss invoked Dickens since his travels to NY were limited. Remember ‘Herman’ Melville’s quote in Houston verse had nothing to do with the location (upstate NY) from which the literary reference was derived. Using a similar thought process here. What was he thinking of at the location when he referenced Charles Dickens?
Ideas:
Charles
Christmas Carol
Old Curiosity Shop
Great Expectations
Tale of Two Cities
If it’s not using his name, It would have to be something that almost immediately makes one think
of Charles Dickens. Christmas Carol tops the list. Anything else?

MERLIN

Just for fun – which puzzle do you think Dickens would fit into the best?

Since we re doing FUN stuff, how about Image 9?!

MERLIN

Just for fun – which puzzle do you think Dickens would fit into the best?

Something with slums and an underbelly. Soooooo NYC. Haha
Ok davinci, you want to spit ball—Oliver st is one of the only named E/W streets in Bay Ridge. If we’re playing that heavy S. BK Hamilton card. Not in 3 Volumes though. Guess that only matters if Vols. are volumes though… (I’m not insinuating anything with that. If I had an idea what Vols. is I would say. Haha)

phrabbott

Something with slums and an underbelly. Soooooo NYC. Haha
Ok davinci, you want to spit ball—Oliver st is one of the only named E/W streets in Bay Ridge. If we’re playing that heavy S. BK Hamilton card. Not in 3 Volumes though. Guess that only matters if Vols. are volumes though… (I’m not insinuating anything with that. If I had an idea what Vols. is I would say. Haha)

Oliver Twist. I like it!.. Not too far from Fort Hamilton High School or John Paul Jones Park (still my favorite location BTW)

Thought I would post this here in case others haven’t seen the other thread. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Anyone explored here before?
My best guess at a complete solution so far:
In the shadow
Of the grey giant (at border of Manhattan)
Find the arm that (pick a parkway)
Extends over the slender path (278/Belt/BQE that extend over narrows)
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound (ferries in NY Bay or bike path along Belt I.e. stay by the shore)
Cars abound (South Shore Park, bounded by Belt and Shore Road)
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native (Fort Hamilton Sign)
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. (Oliver Street, Charles Dickens = Oliver! Or Oliver Twist)
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more (take 22 steps east)
From the middle of one branch
Of the v (v at Oliver street in the park)
Look down
And see simple roots (?grass)
In rhapsodic man’s soil (general Brooklyn reference)
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B. (SOL)

Boogieman, You have a big ‘to do’ list when you visit JPJ park again.
I’m looking for another ‘V’ that lead us directly over JPJ plaque…
by the way… could be ‘paces’ one foot? I mean 12 inch…

eljayo

Boogieman, You have a big ‘to do’ list when you visit JPJ park again.
I’m looking for another ‘V’ that lead us directly over JPJ plaque…
by the way… could be ‘paces’ one foot? I mean 12 inch…

There is no other verse thatwould lead us to JJP…
if this be the verse then this be the Rhapsodic Man.

Here’s what have so far linking Prospect Park and V10
Particularly; sign of Indies native, him of Hard word in 3 Vols, and the isle of B
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Meaning outside the main “down town New York Area”
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
Manhattan bridge heading to Brooklyn which becomes Flatbush Ave heading straight to Prospect Park
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Could be the nearby fountains, could also be the many birds in the area.
Excerpt from Dope on the Slope:  “I was out photographing the various blooms and blossoms popping up in Prospect Park this afternoon when I heard a bizarre
whirring
sound in a stand of trees …..very similar to that of quail wings. I looked up and saw a flash of black and red in the brush – a redwing blackbird!
Cars abound
Roads going through and around Prospect Park
Here is a link to a good map of the park:
http://home.earthlink.net/~parkadvocate … irdMap.jpg
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The Montauk Club:  Ste A, 25 8th Ave, Brooklyn, NY‎ – (718) 638-0800‎
(just off the northern edge of Prospect Park to to me could = “Nearby”)
The Montauk Club is a slice of Victoriana that would be pretentious if it weren’t so enjoyable and fun to view when walking past. The club itself was established in 1889 as a “gentleman’s social club”; a plaque at the front entrance describes its (completed in) 891 building at 8th Avenue and Lincoln Place as modeled by architect Francis Kimball after the Ca’ d’Oro in Venice.
There is a lengthy frieze above the third floor depicting the “exploits of the Montauk Indians”,
as the plaque puts it
,
in terra cotta.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was born in Petrovichi in Smolensk Oblast, RSFSR (now Russia)  His family emigrated to the United States when he was three years old.
Growing up in Brooklyn, New York, Asimov taught himself to read at the age of five, and remained fluent in Yiddish as well as English. His parents owned a succession of candy stores,  (the last was at 174 Windsor Place, between Fuller Place and 10th Avenue… very close to the park )    and everyone in the family was expected to work in them.
Most of his popularized science books explain scientific concepts in a historical way, going as far back as possible to a time when the science in question was at its simplest stage. He often provides nationalities, birth dates, and death dates for the scientists he mentions, as well as etymologies and pronunciation guides for technical terms.
Examples include his Guide to Science, the three volume set Understanding Physics
, Asimov’s Chronology of Science and Discovery, as well as numerous works on astronomy, mathematics, the Bible, William Shakespeare’s works and, of course, chemistry subjects.
Understanding Physics is a non-fiction book written by Isaac Asimov, originally published in 1966. It is considered to be a reader-friendly informational guide regarding the fields of physics and chemistry, written for lay people. It is one of several science guides by Asimov.
The book is divided into three volumes, each of which have also been published separately as books. They are:
•  Motion, Sound, and Heat
•  Light, Magnetism, and Electricity
•  The Electron, Proton, and Neutron
A good hike south of the park is a school named after him          PS 099 Isaac Asimov  1120 East  10 Street  Brooklyn, NY 11230
Not sure of relevant dates regarding the school or it’s name.
Here are the various addresses around Brooklyn he lived or worked in his father’s candy stores…
–  When the Asimov family came to the United States in 1923, they moved into their first apartment at 425 Van Siclen Avenue, in the East New York section of Brooklyn.
–  In the summer of 1925 they moved one block away to an apartment at 434 Miller Avenue.
–  They moved half a mile eastward in December 1928 to another apartment at 651 Essex Street, above the second candy store bought by his father.
–  In early 1933, they moved to an apartment on Church Avenue,
–  and after a brief stay there they moved to an apartment above yet another family candy store, at 1312 Decatur Street, in the Ridgewood section of Brooklyn.
–  In December of 1936, Asimov’s father sold his third candy store and bought his fourth, at 174 Windsor Place, (between Fuller Place and 10th Avenue), and the family moved to a house across the street.
–  After completing military service and his work as a chemist with the government during WW 2, he returned to the states in May, and after his discharge from the army in July, he and his wife Gertrude moved into a small apartment in Brooklyn on 213 Dean Street in September 1946.
–  In September of 1947 they moved to the downstairs apartment of his parents’ house on Windsor Place. He later lived in Manhattan, Philadelphia, and Boston.
Isaac Asimov could also be our connection to the  “Russian” Orthodox Church in the picture.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
The “V” can be seen from the Grand Army Plaza looking south into the park.
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
?
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
The Bailey Fountain
is in Grand Army Plaza, which is at the north end of Prospect Park
From the wikipedia page for Grand Army Plaza:
The Bailey Fountain was built in 1932 by architect Edgerton Swarthout and sculptor Eugene Savage. Named after Brooklyn-based financier and philanthropist Frank Bailey (1865-1953), he funded it as a memorial to his wife Mary Louise. It features an elaborate grouping of allegorical and mythical figures that includes the god of water Neptune and a pair of female nudes representing Wisdom and Felicity.

Lowercase Roman numerals are often seen as page numbers for materials prefatory to the beginning of the main body of a work.
I wonder if middle of the branch of the v is some kind of chapter or book related fifth reference.

erexere

Lowercase Roman numerals are often seen as page numbers for materials prefatory to the beginning of the main body of a work.
I wonder if middle of the branch of the v is some kind of chapter or book related fifth reference.

Doesn’t that seem unlikely since there is nothing else that references the v?
Meaning, if it was was like him of hard word in 3 vols, then I can understand the point of going down a rabbit hole trying to find what it is referring to. This line just seems to be straight forward, except for the fact that we have no idea what type of v we are looking for. It can not be a book or a chapter without any clues to said book or chapter. Not even a hint.
It seems more likely that it is actually a V shaped path.

Everything is unlikely till except in whatever may fit in a context that is determined with whatever information can be gleaned from these puzzles.
Its never easy to determine which is the case, our projection of meaning or whatever was in the mind of the author. There is no “likely”, just a right answer.
Yes, paths may be V shaped. Lots of things may be V shaped. A branch could describe a path, or a tree, or a offshoot of something larger, or part of a larger organization of some kind. Does usage matter? Is branch a verb or a noun?

erexere

Everything is unlikely till except in whatever may fit in a context that is determined with whatever information can be gleaned from these puzzles.
Its never easy to determine which is the case, our projection of meaning or whatever was in the mind of the author. There is no “likely”, just a right answer.
Yes, paths may be V shaped. Lots of things may be V shaped. A branch could describe a path, or a tree, or a offshoot of something larger, or part of a larger organization of some kind. Does usage matter? Is branch a verb or a noun?

I will have to disagree. All we have is likely, with no right answers.
ANd yes, whatever information can be gleaned from the puzzle will help us understand the context of the clues/verses. I am just challenging your theory that it can be a chapter or a book when nothing indicates that it would be.
Does not mean it is not possible, just seems unlikely when understanding the choices made by the author and artist.

maltedfalcon

George Gershwin, Composer of Rhapsody in Blue, was born in Brooklyn
so by defininition all of Brooklyn is Rhapsodic Man’s soil.
thats probably a little more likely than the John Baldwin connection.

If Gershwin is the key, and I wouldn’t mind that one bit, then that would take us back to the
sign nearby
as the starting point.  You definitely can’t dig in Fort Hamilton.  Military Fort.  Still active.  As for a sign nearby, the only one I can find is the one at the corner of 101st St. and Hamilton Prkwy.  Ok.  I’ll check that out again MF.  (oops, I hope the language filters let me abbr. malted falcon)

Go to
http://local.live.com/ 
get a close up of the Verrazano in the
bird’s eye
view option on the left of the screen.  Scan over to fort hamilton which is south-east of the bridge.
I had just mentioned that you can’t dig in Fort Hamilton.  But look at that huge v made out of a concrete wall.  There’s actully two v’s, one bigger than the other.  I can’t download the image.  Can onyone else?  Geez, those v’s really stand out!!!!!
edit: also view it from the
south
option.  And you can also most definitely
look down
from that v.  From the image, it looks that the
gaze north
line tells you what side of the v to look down from.  I’m going to Fort Hamilton soon.  I bet there’s something there
nearby
the end of the one branch that speaks of Hamilton. Wow!

Are you referring to the Belt Parkway/Shore Road on ramp,
just south of the ever present shadow??

Nope.  Right in fort hamilton. It’s not far from the entrance to the fort which is right under the bridge.  At local.live.com you have to move around to find it. It’s kind of on the western side of the complex, closer to the swimming pools.  Here’s a link from google.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.6 … &z=19&om=1

Just inside the Fort area, off of the sign that siads “Exit 2: Fort Hamilton”,
the fenced off bulding facility,
could that be a cooling station for the Fort??
(in summer you often hear a whirring)
The budiling is yellow with its own access road.

try this view, then zoom in:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&om= … 06083&z=17

Yes, I do see what you are referring to.
It is V shaped.
But it is inside the Fort and digging would defintely be prohibited
(with or without permission)
Now… I have an explanation for “Or More”
IF BP wants you to cross the highway to get to the
burial spot, it would be twenty two (or so)
steps directly across in a straight line.
If you’ve every crossed a highway, you are forced into a lot of zig zagging
to make it safely to the other side.
This would be the “or more”

Take twice as many east steps as the hour
or more
from the middle of one branch
of the v
Look down
If BP would not have us zig zagging across a highway, why would he give us a clue to do so?
I think the “or more” here could possibly mean that the east steps take you to the middle of one branch of the v where you look down, if in fact the v sat in the same direction as the v in Fort Hamilton.  One branch has to go east, correct?  In this case, both branches go east, so gaze north and look down.  This way you can only be on one side of the v looking down and facing north.  Therefore, the “or more” would mean to simply start at the end of the most southern branch of the v and head east.
We can only know for sure when we find the right v.  (v not meaning verse.  LOL) The verse can be twisted to fit almost anything.  But there can only be one “right” v.  We’ve twisted it around alot in JPJ Park.
BTW… If you can have your wedding photos taken within the fort, why not be able to dig?  We have to find out for sure so that any other ideas are not a waste of time.
edit: Fox, fix you gosh darn internet connection problems and get in here!!!!!

Good luck boogie – if/when you ever get to dig there, please avoid hitting buried ordinance!

forest_blight

Good luck boogie – if/when you ever get to dig there, please avoid hitting buried ordinance!

LOL.. “KABOOM”

Here’s a thought… Again…  BP grew up in Brooklyn.  He had to knew Fort Hamilton pretty good.  Wouldn’t he know the v shape was there?  That v is just outside the museum.  Maybe this is like FOY Park.  The clues we are missing for Image12 and V10 may be contained within the museum.

How about this v.  Scan up 4th street to 94th street using local.live.com.  Fort Hamilton Triangle.  Here’s a little history.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par … p?id=11368
A bad pic, but definitely shows the v.  And you can go to the middle of it and gaze north.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&g … &z=19&om=1
edit:  this probably isn’t what we need, but triangles in general do form nice v’s.

boogieman

How about this v.  Scan up 4th street to 94th street using local.live.com.  Fort Hamilton Triangle.  Here’s a little history.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par … p?id=11368
A bad pic, but definitely shows the v.  And you can go to the middle of it and gaze north.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&g … &z=19&om=1
edit:  this probably isn’t what we need, but triangles in general do form nice v’s.

I like the eagle on the memorial in the triangle, but I also liked the arched windows at the Harbor Defense Museum. …
http://www.nycgovparks.org/common_image … s/259.jpeg

shseverin11

I like the eagle on the memorial in the triangle, but I also liked the arched windows at the Harbor Defense Museum. …
http://www.nycgovparks.org/common_image … s/259.jpeg

The arches on the museum do match up.  But the arch in Image12 has to be the Verrazano.  That’s how we got here, the arm that extends.
I hope to see more inside the museum.
The whole place doesn’t seem to be so tight with security.  They have St Paddy’s Day parties there where everyone is hammered.  How tough could it be to dig?  Anything else you notice about the arched windows?  Other than the shape?

boogieman

The arches on the museum do match up.  But the arch in Image12 has to be the Verrazano.  That’s how we got here, the arm that extends.
I hope to see more inside the museum.
The whole place doesn’t seem to be so tight with security.  They have St Paddy’s Day parties there where everyone is hammered.  How tough could it be to dig?  Anything else you notice about the arched windows?  Other than the shape?

I was viewing the arch on the museum as a match with the “stained glass window” inside the big arch in p 12 that matches us with the bridge. I couldn’t find any other matches. I did email the museum to ask them what the sign on the museum wall says (the one in the picture on their homepage) but my email was rejected as spam
Shannon

Look at this old, old engraving of the Fort…
http://www.harbordefensemuseum.com/images/history1.jpg

Wow, nice evidence in favor of Stanley Park. Here is some more:
“…Stanley Park is a permanent preserve of wilderness in the heart of the city, complete with dense coastal forests and abundant wildlife. It was
Alexander Hamilton
, land commissioner for the Canadian Pacific Railway, whose proposal to preserve the end of Burrard Peninsula led to the creation of the park, which was later named for Lord Stanley, Canada’s governor-general from 1888 to 1893. It is dedicated for “the use and enjoyment of all peoples of all colors, creeds, and customs for all time.” (from
http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_detail.cfm?dt=3674&cid=2&pageid=BC&cityid=90
)
Alexander Hamilton (the other one) was, as frishkie pointed out earlier, an “Indies native,” having been born in the West Indies. For those of you who have visited Stanley Park – is there a sign anywhere in the park commemorating Mr. Hamilton?

forest_blight

Wow, nice evidence in favor of Stanley Park. Here is some more:
“…Stanley Park is a permanent preserve of wilderness in the heart of the city, complete with dense coastal forests and abundant wildlife. It was
Alexander Hamilton
, land commissioner for the Canadian Pacific Railway, whose proposal to preserve the end of Burrard Peninsula led to the creation of the park, which was later named for Lord Stanley, Canada’s governor-general from 1888 to 1893. It is dedicated for “the use and enjoyment of all peoples of all colors, creeds, and customs for all time.” (from
http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_detail.cfm?dt=3674&cid=2&pageid=BC&cityid=90
)
Alexander Hamilton (the other one) was, as frishkie pointed out earlier, an “Indies native,” having been born in the West Indies. For those of you who have visited Stanley Park – is there a sign anywhere in the park commemorating Mr. Hamilton?

The CPR Hamilton was probably more commonly known as Lauchlan Hamilton.  Alexander was his middle name.
Drew

I am not all-fired happy with the solution to this v. I think there have been better interpretations in the past, and even my strange Niagara Falls interp fit better, IMHO. HOWEVER—that said, I will not discount anything yet. I’m not very familiar with the research on this one, except as it pertained to Niagara Falls, which, BTW, is still in New York.

I find this all very interesting guys.  The one issue I have would be the indies native.  Who is that?  Asimov?

Not unless Russia and New York are part of the Indies.
Asimov has nothing to do with “Indies native.”

shecrab

Asimov has nothing to do with “Indies native.”

I couldn’t even be a smart@$$ on this one.  Was trying desperately to find mention that Isaac’s favorite bevarage was a cup of Indies Darjeeling tea.  Oh well…
I do find the connection (or lack thereof) of Asimov & Indies natives very suspect.

With Kibitz’ ideas for verse7 I think we would want to think of the indies native as a street sign.  Alexander Hamilton Parkway for instance.  We haven’t locked in any street clues for this one yet.  I will look into this more.  (soon)
After my 3 month layoff from the hunt I feel refreshed.

Ahh Yess Foxx,
How right you are… Not exactly the center more like the South west corner, but in the park just the same.. So, Now I guess we are back to start.
No wonder I chase myself in circles..LOL
Denise

wk

I was looking at bridges before I found Lookout Hill.
Look down and see simple roots
could be referring to the low down “nature carvings” in the stonework. There was one back near the Lincoln statue that I found but not enough resolution. Look down could also be from a bridge. There is one called Cleftridge near Concert Grove which has a carving. Also a good place to hide. I found this a good description:
http://forgotten-ny.com/2001/08/the-bri … pect-park/

How about this location?
http://goo.gl/maps/IMuoV