I saw this while walking along the Mall in Washington, DC today, and thought of you boogie – our pal John Paul Jones:

Pizzia5

The bottom left one ( looks like a square archway) could be a link to George Gershwins mausoleum

Nice idea, though the most distinctive thing about it is the red outline. I don’t think it looks like anything natural. Maybe it’s just an artistic flourish, a nod to Mondrian’s
New York City
or something.
The coloured red and yellow squares are also a bit Mondrianesque.

How about image11?
If we assume what he said is true, and not some cruel joke on an already difficult hunt, then the only image that can possibly be St Louis is image 11.
Its that or he made a mistake. Given Egberts description of him as an “absent minded professor”, it could be possible.

you know, it must be explored that appreciation goes both ways.  Where Preiss worked hard creatively to present us with this challenge, the response he received was at first hopeful with Chicago, and then a numb sense of pride in 2004 when Egbert collected on Cleveland.  I believe he put his hunt to slumber long before 2004 and didn’t feel it necessary to give anything up freely.  Perhaps Johann displayed the most exemplary work and so he gave him something to work with, but it should not be assumed he gave enough of an answer to confirm what part of an image or verse exactly determined the city of St. Louis is correct.  He doesn’t do that at all.  We have so much expectation wrapped around our heads that it acts like a blindfold to the simple illusion that these casques are discretely proposed.  It seems more and more evident that they are all channelling eachother to some degree through a consistency and uniformity of Preiss’ literary mind and JJP’s artistic ability.  This is a situation not unlike Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle.  We aren’t observing one casque wholly separate from another.  Even maltedfalcon admits that by expressing a logic of defining principles based on Chicago and Cleveland that says other casques must follow a discernible method.
Think about it folks.  Listen to eachother.  Get your shovels ready.

boogieman

He gave up Canada

Unknown

Unknown:
From :
Sent :  Monday, April 7, 2003 2:08 PM
To :  [email protected]
Subject :  Re: “The Secret”
thanks! yes, there is a treasure in Canada.

Unknown

Unknown:
Very impressive work esp since the book is 20 years old.  I think you deserve to  know that you are correct about st. Louid,but not correct about the location.thanks for all your excellent work.

He did…? Do you have that one too AP…?
If there’s one in St Louis and one in Canada, something’s gone badly wrong somewhere.
*edit*
Oh OK, found it. I’d forgotten about that one.
…and there’s also…
It’s hard to see any of the other images except No. 9 pointing to either St Louis or Canada. But if we assume the St Louis remark was a cryptic hint about a different puzzle it kinda makes it difficult to believe anything he said. (It’s also difficult to see how St Louis, if it’s a reference to New Orleans, has anything to do with a casque in Lafayette Square.)

I recall posting the poem by a famous Native indian poet in Canada named Pauline Johnson (initials J.P. could be the runes with the ‘X’) titled “In the Shadows”. She has the only grave on Stanley Park. The Gate to the Northwest Passage is a long ways away, but I wonder if the shape of her monument looks close enough to be the blob in the square panel next to the legeater. The square sculpture is faced such that a compass and map could confirm since the grave monument isnt LoS.

erexere

I recall posting the poem by a famous Native indian poet in Canada named Pauline Johnson (initials J.P. could be the runes with the ‘X’) titled “In the Shadows”. She has the only grave on Stanley Park. The Gate to the Northwest Passage is a long ways away, but I wonder if the shape of her monument looks close enough to be the blob in the square panel next to the legeater. The square sculpture is faced such that a compass and map could confirm since the grave monument isnt LoS.

I think you are definitely on to something, and that you should see it through.

I think the arm that extends over the slender path is a reference to a light house.
Applied to Stanley Park, Vancouver, there’s a main two lane road that wraps around the park, but there’s also a skinny walking/bike path that is right along the shore wall. The Brockton Point lighthouse is built over that path such that people can pass underneath it’s legs. This path qualifies as slender, but there’s also the fact that the Lighthouse signal is meant to help ships navigating through the “First Narrows” of the Burrard Inlet.
The Lion’s Gate Bridge a couple kilometers away is also called the “First Narrows” Bridge. 60,000-70,000 cars pass over the bridge every day. Could be a reference to “cars abound”.

It is my opinion that you can make a Verse apply not only to multiple cities (just about any city actually), but also to multiple locations within the same city. Especially if you ignore a line or two, or jump around randomly over a large area. So it comes as no surprise that you can make a convincing argument that Verse 10 applies to places in the Pacific Northwest. The same cannot be said for the Images, which are much more site specific in that regard. With that in mind, and if you agree, which Image are you currently using to advance this theory? And can you make an equally convincing argument that the Image that you are using fits your location better than the city commonly accepted by conventional wisdom*?
*Disclaimer: I am not saying that the conventional wisdom is 100% correct (although that’s what I believe). I’m saying that the 12 cities that we have (including Montreal) have fairly compelling cases going for them, and if you (anyone, not just Erexere) wants to color outside the lines, then you (again, not just Erexere) need to make a more convincing case for the alternate city first, before you (one last time, not just Erexere) focus on the Verse match. IMO.

I agree. Except I dont see the Montreal theory holds together in any concrete fashion. The legeater, yes, but the question of why hasnt been executed in the way people claim as follows anythimg like Cleveland or Chicago.
I’m fully aware that I have nothing certain in the Stanley Park theory. The closest I came to a certainty was when I thought the base of the Lumberman’s Arch looked like the Calendula pattern on P9. It almost does, even Eg thought so, but it isnt exact. (Maltedfalcon did a great visual analysis a couple years ago.) I’m uncertain of that though because pics of the tree base from different years were dramatically different from decomposition. One large gap in the top where water could settle and freeze probably helped some of the shift. Still, not good enough.
…in the shadow of a lamp leg…the PNW aimed theory is quite lopsided.
I really like the Hard word in 3 vol as a hint for King James III/the King James Version bible; the Fair Folk might acknowledge King George III in the same way unknowing that Georgie didnt have his own version of the bible. They also refer to a George in “Rhapsodic man’s soil”, so maybe that supports the link. King George had claim to all of Canada, right? He was King of a lot of countries…history buffs help me out here.
Also, “word” has the option of meaning “promise”. A Hard word could then mean an inflexible promise. Seems very biblical to me.

maybe i have you blocked then haha. very possible.

JoshCornell

also, you know full well you have me blocked lol.

nope pretty sure I havn’t

Find the arm
That extends over the slender path
followed by
Take twice as many steps as the hour
Has me considering the cannon attraction in Stanley Park.  It’s called the “
9 o’clock Gun
“.  Since an alternate meaning for arm could also be a gun I wonder if this makes a good fit.  It’s having the name of an hour might help in this interpretation eventually leading us to take 18 steps
or more
.
What is a slender path?  A trail?  Something with no fat?  The path or way to having no fat might be a riddle representing death, which after much time is a natural path towards becoming a skeleton.  The 9 o’clock Gun fires daily at 9pm in a direction over or past the Deadman’s Island.
Added (10/12/12):  I think slender path could very well mean an actual foot path that contains a view of something “slender” and in this case totem poles are slender.  When describing someone as “skinny”, often is the comparison made that they are “skinny as a pole”.  Something which has a corroborative element to this slender idea is the Brockton Point light house sitting right next to the Totem pole area in Stanley Park.  It was named after Francis Brockton of the HMS Plumper.  I like the implied contrast of slender/plumper.

Since I’m having trouble making St. Louis work, perhaps we should consider St. Louis a possibility for this verse and see what happens (along with considering the other cities just mentioned too).

addendum–At this time, I have no idea how to make the Dickens connection to St. Louis.  There are no statues of him there.

Egbert

I have searched and searched for any type of plaque or monument mentioning Charles Dickens in New York, but I have come up with nothing so far.

“The architecturally impressive, block-long Bonsecours Market still occupies the site today at 330 Saint-Paul Est; all that remains of the city’s first professional theatre is a plaque on one corner of the market, where the theatre stood for nineteen years. The street named for the visiting author has fared no better, for Dickens Lane at the side of Francisco Rasco’s Hotel opposite (where the Dickenses stayed for 19 days) disappeared in 1999 to make way for a large-scale condominium project. On the hotel was a plaque commemorating Dickens’s visit to Montreal, but it, too, together with items of Dickens memorabilia, has been swallowed by the sands of time.” in Montreal

Glossiphoniidae

“The architecturally impressive, block-long Bonsecours Market still occupies the site today at 330 Saint-Paul Est; all that remains of the city’s first professional theatre is a plaque on one corner of the market, where the theatre stood for nineteen years. The street named for the visiting author has fared no better, for Dickens Lane at the side of Francisco Rasco’s Hotel opposite (where the Dickenses stayed for 19 days) disappeared in 1999 to make way for a large-scale condominium project. On the hotel was a plaque commemorating Dickens’s visit to Montreal, but it, too, together with items of Dickens memorabilia, has been swallowed by the sands of time.” in Montreal

And for anyone subscribing to the Cartier theory, there’s an endless supply of that in Montreal, too. I’ve still got Verse 5/Image 9/Montreal as far as the working theory, but there’s a ton of Cartier in Montreal.
In Montreal

Double post

He was probably the most prolific park designer of the late 1800s. I doubt the association is intentional.

Prospect Park sounds quite intriguing. While doing a very brief search on it…I wasn’t surprised to come across a name that I have seen so many times during my research on this hunt. That name being Fredrick Law Olmsted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Law_Olmsted#ABC
Take a look at some of his parks in Milwaukee, Boston, Montreal, NY, Chicago, Cleveland, etc…. Unfortunately neither Greek Cultural Gardens nor Grant Park are on this list. I still think he plays a major part in our locations.
Just some food for thought

How is Nat King Cole of “Hard” word?

Just thought of what “cars abound” could mean!
A car ferry.  New York has a few of them, I believe.
Here is a link of routes – not sure it includes all car ferry routes, and not sure if all of these routes are for cars.
http://www.panynj.gov/commuting-traveling/ferry-transportation.html
“you’ll often hear a whirring sound.”
There is the Downtown Manhattan Heliport at the southern tip of Manhattan, near the car ferry and Battery Park:
http://goo.gl/maps/MgCbl
There are other helicopter pads in New York, but I have not yet done the research as to whether there are any others near a car ferry.
If you recall, Battery Park has a number of interesting monuments, including immigration-related, Peter Minuit, and a bird reminiscent of Image 12.
http://www.thebattery.org/the-battery/monuments/

Egbert, I think it has to do with some kind of mechanical thing that is on a route.  The use of the words often and whirring seems like it best describes something that is reoccuring and the sound doesn’t have to be caused by the whirring itself, just that the implicated object is audible and it has a circuitous path or makes routine rounds.  A ferry works.  A miniature train works.  One of those kiddie carousels in a playground works, but only if the kids are making gleeful noises or it’s squeaky.  A roller coaster.  Even an elevator would work, since it goes up and comes back down.
This talk about Vol. has me thinking about verse 8’s “View the three stories of Mitchell”.  Maybe the three stories are the equivalent of parts of a book, or a volume.  The other lines that talk about “at a distance in time and space” are basically pointing out dimensions.  Maybe I’ll jump over to that thread to chew on that idea some more.

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols
the old vinyl LPs
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/ … LfEvWg.jpg

The first 4 lines of the verse, if it is Brooklyn, puts you at the Verrazano.  How can the whirring sound in summer get you up to 94th street and 4th ave?  I like the Fort Hamilton Triangle as a v.  We just need to find a whirring sound by the library.
Here’s an eagle at the Triangle:

**Will be making changes to this**
Integrating the Image elements in bold,
Hat is the shape of Mitchell Island south of Vancouver
// Cambie Street northbound connects you to downtown Vancouver where it adjusts to northeast travel until you cross Pender and land on Highway 7A (Hastings St.) at the site of the Victory Square WWI cenotaph.  Go west, passing rail cars, marina, and northward view of Deadman’s Island, then turn southwest for one block and then northeast on Pender St. to the entrance of Stanley park where you are greeted by the massive enthusiastic posture of the statue of Lord Stanley.  Circle Stanley Park and take in the sites.  The Harding memorial, the 9 o’clock Gun, Lumberman’s Arch, the miniature train, the Hollow Tree, Siwash Rock, and the burial cairn of poet Pauline Johnson (looks more like the blob than anything I’ve seen yet).
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
// The famous Hollow Tree of Stanley Park.  A western red cedar tree, said to be the oldest and biggest tree in the region.
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
// The 9 O’clock Gun is an “arm”, but this line fits the Lumberman’s Arch best as it extends over a narrow path.
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
// Also along Hastings is a dense boat marina.
Cars abound
// Travelling W on Hastings in downtown Vancouver you pass a huge waterfront area with rail cars.
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
// (?) Look for a marker that speaks about the Natives of “XwayXway”.
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
// The Harding Memorial with established by a Native American named organization, written in granite about the Harding speech.  A three volume set of books titled Presidential State of the Union Messages 1790-1966 contains President Harding’s words.  The Harding Memorial is near the Pavillion just beyond the entrance.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
// Use the 9’oclock Gun as input to get 18 or more steps originating from the east, therefore it is west we walk.  (Is there a wind direction motif anywhere?)
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
//
Look down
And see simple roots
// The giant checker boards, there are three.
In rhapsodic man’s soil
// Lord Stanley (His statue with raised arms in a rhapsodic pose of welcome at the entrance to Stanley Park).
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
// The Legend of Deadman’s Island.  It was discovered originally as a Native American burial site where hundreds of red cedar boxes were lashed to the upper boughs of the trees below them the “fire-flower” (Poppy) would grow where the warriors fell.  The boxes were filled with these warrior’s bones.  A common symbol for bones is an “X”.  A box with an “X” in it seems like a connection to image 9.  The isle was off limits to the public during the time Preiss would’ve buried a casque, so it’s an unlikely place for us to consider as a treasure ground.  This site is seen most easily in 1982 when gazing north from the corner of Hastings and Jarvis.  This is a good place to turn south for a block to land on Pender St. in order to continue on to Stanley Park.
If the legeater is the equivalent of the CPR, and the blob is P.J.’s cairn and the flower is the Lumberman’s Arch
are smaller pieces of the art, then the largest parts, the hat, head, neck collar, hans, and checkers are the best candidates for the treasure ground.  I think the hands represent the Hollow Tree, but I’ve also cited the verse for doing that with the first line.  I think the most central element tends to be the correct answer (fence in Chicago, wall in Cleveland), which means the collar portion or checkerboards might be the most central, though I think the checker boards are kind of background.  I think the collar has a sketch line of a trail…

You know what would be great?  To find Rhapsodic man’s soil in Vancouver.  That could wrap this verse up nicely.

wilhouse

did u guys not like my hard words?
wilhouse

Fox is right, no wonder we can’t find one.  Give me an image other than image 12 and I’m down with it.

did u guys not like my hard words?
wilhouse
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=728.60

My delimma with this verse and the locations
that I have scouted always ends with:
“Rhapsodic man’s soil”
The ‘Ilse of B’ indicates the proximity
to a coast or Harbor and there are three
or four good locations where gazing
North to an B island exists….
It is finding a Statue or a Park dedicated to
a music man (Mozart, Gherswin, Cohen, MIller, Caruso)
keeps me scratching my head.

I think you mean DURO trohn.  Gotta keep the masculine.  Why did you choose spanish trohn?  If that is the case, then this P matches with V6?
Wilhouse, almost forgot about your “Hard”ing words.  ’tis amazing how theories come along and simply vanish…no wonder we cant find another casque.  speaking of finding a casque…good luck on the dig tomorrow wil.  Bring us home a casque, k?

Trohn

(Mozart, Gherswin, Cohen, MIller, Caruso)
keeps me scratching my head.

I can see Gershwin, but why the others?

Depends upon the city in question…
If this is San Francisco, the soil can either
be  of which Tony Bennett sings or a
Caruso monument concerning the 1906 earthquake.
The others I threw in as icons I’ve used to search
in particular areas without success.
Gershwin has been metioned linking to NY.
(but little success of lnking it)
I tried to find somethig in Stanley Park to fit this, but
came up empty.
Other turn of the century men to consider??

Surprised this connection hasn’t been made yet..
Does the eagle’s head look weird?
Looks like the winged Roman God Mercury doesn’t it?
https://www.dkfindout.com/us/history/ancient-rome/mercury/
And “rhapsodic man”.. Bohemian Rhaposdy and Freddie Mercury?
What about the 74 in the water?
Queen released this song in 1974 “The Fairy Feller’s Master-Stroke”. Preiss wrote about fairies in the book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_the_Rainbow_%2774
Of course, none of this is relevant until the casque can be found.

gqchu

Of course, none of this is relevant…

Well, there you go.

Unknown

Unknown:
“We are laboring hard to establish in this country principles more and more national, and free from all foreign ingredients, so that we may be neither ‘Greeks nor Trojans,’ but truly Americans.”—[Hamilton to King, 1796, Æt. 39.]

what if I were 2 for 2 in connections nobody made yet?
“Of him Hard word in 3 Vols.”
Hamilton wrote to the King in the Federal Edition Vol III about hard labor..
http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/hamilton-the-works-of-alexander-hamilton-federal-edition-vol-3
Isn’t there also a purple square in the picture? Isn’t purple associated with royalty?
Again irrelevant if it doesn’t lead to the casque…

I am still planning to on dig at JPJ Park thursday….. I am throwing this out there so the Battery Park favoritists can ponder.
In the shadow of the grey giant
find the arm that extends over the slender path
Still going with the 2 WTC tower.  The slender path could be the Narrows Inlet and the Verrazano.  You can see the battery from the top of the WTC with the Verrazano off in the distance.  Or it can be the arm of the Hudson Bay called the Hudson River that travels over the PATH rail tunnels that run from Jersey City to ground zero which can be called slender paths.  Very tight, a person and a train cannot occupy the same space in those tunnels at the same time.  Walked them a thousand times.
In summer, you’ll often hear a whirring sound
You have the heliport and the Liberty Island Ferry down at the Battery.  As I recall, the heliport was open all year round back in 82′, but the trips to the Statue were not.  In the summer, the ferries ran more frequent than in the spring or fall.  So,
very often
in summer, not so often otherwise.
Cars abound
Take your pick.  There is a subway station for the MTA subway cars, the entrance to the Brooklyn/Battery tunnel for autos right there, plus heavy traffic running along the Battery and around Wall St..
Althought the sign nearby speaks of indies native
Almost all of the older buildings around the Battery have to do with Alexander Hamilton.  There’s the Custom House and various Bank of New York buildings around, which, coincidentally is a bank that old Alexander founded.
The natives still speak of him of hard word in three vols.
If we are talking about Battery Park, I think we have to go back to the
Federalists Papers
written by Hamilton for the Hard Word.
Maybe we can find something on them at the Customs House.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour, or more, from the middle of one branch of the v
Look down and see simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil
or gaze north towards the isle of B
Where is that confounded v that contains rhapsodic guy’s dirt and is south of some stupid isle that starts with a B?  I dont think we can take the same concepts of these lines from the JPJ Park equation.

It’s true that Bowen Island is northwest of Stanley Park, but it’s a lot more West than North.
That made me think: where would you have to be in Vancouver to look north toward Bowen Island? You have to go farther south or west.
English Bay beach is just south of Stanley Park and it houses a big grey statue! Check this out:
http://www.seethewestend.com/inukshuk/inukshuk.htm
Here’s a photo looking northwest from the sculpture on English Bay Beach. Could that be Bowen Island in the background?
http://www.trailcanada.com/photos/photos-bc-14-25.asp
But there’s one big catch: the sculpture was commissioned for Expo 86 — after The Secret was published.
Farther west there’s another promising spot:  Pacific Spirit Park, near Point Grey. That might give new meaning to the term “grey giant” too. Perhaps there is a spectacularly “giant” tree at Point Grey?
On the map I see a “Historical Monument” out there but I haven’t found out more about that. There are a number of paths to the shore in this park so the overall narrative of the poem could fit. Here’s a link to a map (it’s a PDF):
http://www.gvrd.bc.ca/parks/maps/Pacificspiritmap.pdf
I hacked out a quick map to show these locations and their position relative to Bowen Island:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/ … verMap.gif
Of course the Harding monument is in Stanley Park, not Pacific Spirit Park…
[edited to fix image link]

Here’s a little more info about Pacific Spirit Park:
The Historic Monument might be related to “two searchlight towers that are relics from the second world war,” as mentioned here in wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_Beach
One of those could be a “grey giant”.
As shown on the map on that page, there are some narrow breakwaters near that beach called the North Arm Breakwater and the North Arm Jetty. “Slender arm,” anyone?
Does anyone here live in Vancouver?

I’m running a little late but heading out the door now at 11:10 am.  Should be there by 12:15.  I will bring the lap top and hope I can pick up a signal from the park.  Bemo, are you going?

Cormac

and…?

boogie was referring to the time on the clock in P12 and the twice as many steps = 22.
come on guys, dig it up!

Nothing again!  Couldn’t get to deep in the hole.  Those green bushes have gotten so big the roots were impossible to get through.  More later…..

A thought just occurred to me while reading this verse.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
is clearly a reference to the 1-12 number in whatever P is paired with this V. But using the word
hour
may limit us to using a P that has a clock face painted explicitly on it. Those include 1, 2, 3, 7, and 12. If we accept 1, 2, 3, and 7 as San Francisco, Charleston, Roanoke, and New Orleans (respectively) and we believe we know what V’s are paired with 1 and 3, then that means 2, 7, or 12 must be the P for this V. P12 was our top choice for NYC anyway, but maybe this strengthens the evidence for linking V10 with P12?
If P12 is the correct pairing, then
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
would indicate 22 steps.
On the other hand, if V10 goes with Charleston, it would indicate 8 steps.
If New Orleans, then 24.
For the lines
From the middle of one branch / Of the v
, we are looking for something with a “V” shape, and we can deduce two characteristics of this “V.” First, it must be large enough so that the question “where along this ‘V’ should I be standing?” is a reasonable question to ask, and “middle” is a reasonable answer. So whatever it is, it’s big. Second, it is likely a prostrate “V” rather than an upright one, as branches of prostrate V-shaped things have well-defined middles. Let’s hope it is a “V” that is visible from satellite photos.
If Boogie’s fishing reel theory is correct, and we are supposed to be gazing north at an isle, that means we must be very near the water’s edge. So this “V” is between 8 and 24 paces from the water, likely west of it.

Really wanting this to link up with Brooklyn, as I am a East coast
boy, alas it does not.
I have found a positive link hear with Image 1.
For someone on the West coast, this is
positively for San Francisco.
Keep in mind, to properly get the clues
for Image 1, you need to view them from a mirror!
Anyways, this verse does not reference the Golden Gate,
but The Bay Bridge.  More specifcally Yerba Buena
(the Indies Natives)
The rhapsodic man…. Enrico Caruso who is known here
for ushering in the great quake of 1906.
The island is right in the middle of the bay, at the foot of the
bridge… next to Traesure Island, a military base for most of its man
made existence.
I find this spot funny, it diesginates the founding by the Spanish,
at the foot of a famous China town, and designated by an Italian!
Check it out.

100 years ago, today!
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/t … etter.html
Find the right orientation…
Due North, Isle of B (in the Bay)
Brooke’s or Boone.. can’t remember at the moment.

Find the slender path…

Deuce

Hey all. My first ever post on this site. I’ve been scoping out other peoples ideas on this hunt and started to get a few of my own. It took a while to get approved to enter. I just want to share my ideas.
Deuce

Welcome, buddy. Glad to have you, and thanks for sharing your ideas! While they leave a lot unsaid, I’m glad you didn’t jump in here with a full solution. It’s great to see new ideas! Your play with “Take twice as many east steps as the hour / Or more” is interesting.

Just throwing this out there because I am sure
someone else will…
In Navy (one branch of the military) is a small ‘v’.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v

What I am going to do, is find the sign first, or where it used to be in 81′ or 82′.
I’m going to take 22 east steps from there.  Or more, see if it takes me to the middle of one branch of
the
v, and if it does, I’m going to look for simple roots, looking down, then gazing north, probably in line with the gazebo, towards the Isle of B, and still be in JPJ Park.
And then, of course, follow
any
other suggestions that can take us there.

boogs – read the verse again. One is expected to take steps starting at the v and ending where X marks the spot. The sign could be anywhere in the general vicinity.
You could go about this in two ways: (1) Find something V-like, walk east, and look down, look around for a sign in the vicinity; or (2) Find a sign that says “Hamilton” on it, then look in the general vicinity for something V-like, walk east from it, and look down.

I see what you mean and now I understand why you said there isn’t a middle or a branch of the wall.
So the sign may just put us on the Brooklyn side.  It’s the v and the east steps that get us to simple roots
in rhapsodic man’s soil.
Looking down
must be at something that says
“JPJ”
on the ground
.
“In 1980, John Paul Jones Park acquired its most recent monument the 70 foot tall flag pole that once belonged to a Navy destroyer. At the base lies a plaque, which reads “in honor of John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy.”
This quote was taken from the last paragraph of this link:
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par … p?id=11908
But where is the v?  If the X is at the
base
of the flagpole, then the v must be 22 west steps away.
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& … &encType=1
Is the park layout the same as the water in P12?  And can someone turn that tall monument into a v and 22 steps away?  Look at the shadow of the pole.

Thanks wk. I feel good about this location although my idea needs touched up a bit. Still trying to verify a reference to Lincoln. But looking at your map puts things into perspective since I didn’t post one. Hope someone can prove or disprove this site soon.

I agree.  This is a totally cool map.  Reuse of M and B and another L reference seems like a very positive direction as well.

First and second lines have this meaning for me,
In the shadow, idiomatic for something lesser as in being dwarfed by someone’s greatness.
Of the grey giant, something the color grey that represents some great achievement.

Just a basic analysis of the poem informs us of something to do with a tree: branch, roots, soil.  The legeater lamp from the image draws significance from Lord Stephens residence/club as either a landmark or as a significnace in some other respect.  Being that his involvement with the C.P. Railway was tremendous to say the least, I think that fact pairs well with the line “Cars abound” giving us a secondary focus: trains.
Reviewing my thoughts on the first two lines, I am considering one or more things to do with: small and big in sense of size or importance as well as the color grey (but possibly the name Grey or the attribute of old age as its commonly related to the color grey).  I have considered Vancouver primarily for my interpretation of the lat and long of 49/123 since I see the “4” and inverted “9” sharing the same vertical line in the bottom left corner of the flower in image 9.  I have not considered the Montreal location even though that’s the location of the legeater lamp.  Perhaps someone might have something to suggest having to do with tree and rail that fits Montreal.  In the meantime, I’m actually most intrigued with the tree and rail references offered in Stanley Park, Vancouver BC, specifically the “Hollow Tree” and the miniature train, both being mere shadows of a once great past.  The tree still stands with the support of metal rods and cement.  It’s size and age of it and it’s hollow center that allow a person to stand in or park a car inside are it’s allure.  The miniature train represents the CPR and it’s great contribution towards uniting east and west Canada.  Perhaps the train is or was seen as ‘grey’ in color.  I don’t know.
Anyways, those are my thoughts.  I currently think it’s very important to interpret the first lines for an initial starting connection but also to revisit them for the additional or secondary value they might have as a form of verification of being on the right track.

I don’t have much to add here, but two things stood out for me here.
First since we are assuming that we are looking for this in a city, “cars abound” seems odd. All cities have “cars abound” this leads me to believe that it may be railroad cars, or cars in a roller coaster, or maybe even a car muesem, but not just cars driving by.
Second “Take twice as many east steps as the hour” I take this to mean once we match the verse to an image the “steps” will be twice the hour the image is associated with.

I agree. “Cars Abound” is far too literal to be literal.
If everyone agrees that this is most likely New York, I travel across the GWB every weekend to spend the weekends in Queens, NY. I have no problem spending my weekends digging or taking pictures of places you think this could be.

remember when we were talking about the albums of led zeppelin and pink floyd? (reading about cw’s blimp on verse 5 thread made me think of the zeppelin, lol )
look at the synonyms for volumes:
aggregate, amount, body, bulk,
compass
, content, contents, cubic measure, dimensions, extent, figure, mass, number, object, quantity, size, total
amplification, degree, intensity, power, sonority, strength
album
, edition, publication, tome, treatise, version

Has anyone considered Calvert Vaux Park/Dreier Offerman Park or Kaiser Park (across the creek from one another)?
In the shadow Of the grey giant: verrazano bridge
In summer You’ll often hear a whirring sound Cars abound: coney island, rides and bumper cars
From the middle of one branch Of the v: the park has a big v shaped inlet, and in the middle of the west side of the shore there is a rectangular landmass (an old marina)?
Or gaze north Toward the isle of B: Brooklyn
You can see the stake of liberty. There are tons of migratory sea birds.
I think the dress hemline matches the western shore of coney island very well.

maltedfalcon

I was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. Does anybody here consider me a Hawaiian native ?

Idk have you ever worn a grass skirt and coconut bra?
But also I agree the Hamilton/indies link is weak.

https://goo.gl/images/dhyZAc
Don’t know how to get the photo to show up. It’s a link to the sign on Fraunces Tavern, at the tip of Manhattan. Nearby are the helicopters (whirring sound), the ferry (cars abound), and Battery Park.

There’s also several plaques dedicated to Indies natives in San Francisco, depending on how you interprete who is from the Indies? The early Spanish called Native Americans Indies natives. So confusing this one.
http://www.sftravel.com/article/william … co-pioneer
http://kathiewanders.blogspot.com/2015/ … l.html?m=1
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi … plaque.JPG
They seem to pop up every other street in the telegraph hill area

Was just coming here to post the pic of the Fraunces Tavern plaque but I see Egbert beat me to the punch. Here’s an embedded image.
Also some additional discussion on that starting on Page 73 of this thread.

Egbert

https://goo.gl/images/dhyZAc
Don’t know how to get the photo to show up.

1) right click on the image and copy image address.
Then right above this text box click the button that says Img
then hit Ctrl v
it will paste the image elements and when you hit ctrl v it will paste the url in the middle of the elements like URLpastedHere[\Img]
so you get

catherwood

Verse 10:
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.

Is this one person or two?
For example:
If the Indies native is Alexander Hamilton
Him of Hard word Aaron Burr?
Here is a sign ( in NJ , not south of any isles of B so not likely what we’re looking for) That mentions both.
http://www.headfirstadventures.com/2013 … g-grounds/
But the way it’s worded is they a way to tell?

jayheedan1

Is this one person or two?
For example:
If the Indies native is Alexander Hamilton

Well I for one have always thought calling Alexander Hamilton an Indies native was just dumb not to mention wrong.
yes he was born in the british leeward islands.. but his parents were French/english and Scottish.
I was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. Does anybody here consider me a Hawaiian native ?
oh to answer your question I think two separate people at least.

Because the the word “although” the sign
Makes me think the sign talks about this indies native in a positive light but natives speak of Him in a negative way or vice-versa.
Or the otherway
Although the sign talks about person 1 (giving credit), the locals recognize person 2 (who really did all the work). Or similar situation/connection/correlation between the two individuals.

boogieman

BTW, there’s another Rockerfeller Park within the Cleveland Cultural Gardens.  Can we run in circles or what?

You see FB?

Ah, but is there a lion sculpture there? And did Olmsted design the park?

http://www.panoramicearth.com/2810
Here is a link to a panoramic photo of Nelson Rockefeller Park.
AP

http://tinyurl.com/59v34q
According to this link of the book “Divided We Stand”,
The Nelson A. Rockefeller Park was officially dedicated
in June of 1996.  Still, the Rockefeller name and presence
in New York City for generations, is unquestioned.
AP

the statue is facing france right?  so does that mean if  her left arm was straight  (the tablet), she would be pointing to manhattan? and the other arm to staten island?
extend:
# To open or straighten (something) out; unbend: extended the legs of the folding table.

yes,
if you could unfold her left arm and she pointed perpendicular to her body
She would point almost directly at the site of the world trade center.

thanks malted
you can see why i haven’t found anything, lol.

her other arm is extended of course and is pointing up
straight ahead of her is staten island and to her right is new jersey

And she is facing Brooklyn.

Mister EZ

Here are the steps for this puzzle, which you clearly are not following;
http://www.verbalissimo.com/main/offers/inscriptions/europe/spain/gb_maspalomas_rocks.htm
1) Click on that link from Jay
2) Scroll to the bottom
3) Read the English translation as written on that page (and, on the plaque/monument)
4) Notice that it contains “V centenary”, not “v centenary”
5 ) Send me V hundred USD
6) Admit that it’s upper case in that English translation, is a 5 and when coupled with ‘centenary’ denotes the 500th anniversary of….
7) Admit that chocolate pudding is awesome.

You forgot “Throw up your hands in victory signs a la Nixon.”

Merlot Brougham

I think some of the more “grey area” verses (see what I did there) can interchange reasonably with one another. Maybe I should put together a more detailed post. I did post some thoughts in the NOLA thread, but they are blending together a little bit. I’ll see what I can do and maybe take it over to mythology.
Suffice to say, I think we have a few to work with that don’t necessarily have granite walls when matching to a verse. Those being:
Verse 2 (New Orleans, Montreal?)
Verse 3 (iffy? Maybe? Perhaps the weakest suggestion, but again, the poem we know, which is “the strongest tower” isn’t a reference to the subject, but to the author, so perhaps automatically assuming that the Sarmiento quote is New Orleans or the Longfellow paraphrase is Boston may be premature?)
Verse 5 (Everyone was sure this was Charleston for a while)
Verse 6 (Two sets of Edwins/Edwina’s to work with. The 8th as a date is not inscribed on any monument, that took much more digging to
connect the monument to that date).
Verse 7 (If the “Gh” is Great Highway and not Ghirardelli, it doesn’t help the connection to San Fran given that I always thought “the air smells sweet” was a great Image/Verse connection for Image1/Verse 7. Throw that out and we’re left with a slightly non-intuitive connection to Twain, but maybe here’s where we give Preiss credit on his trickery.
Verse 10 – We’ve been discussing this one. I wasn’t on the the committee that decided the “whirring sound” was a helicopter. Besides, the only place you’d hear the whirring sound is from locations that we’ve also somehow decided the cask couldn’t possibly be buried.
I don’t know. At least I’ve given an even number of verses so they can swap easily. I’ve tried a few combinations. Still working on some ideas.

Good summary.
For me, the strongest ties are V3 Boston and V10 NY. I feel they’re pretty solid.
I wasn’t convinced about V2 for NO until someone pointed out 421’s “near this site” sign. Together with BP’s “right about St Louis” and Sarmiento, there seems to be a pretty good link to the Jackson Square area.
I’m still open-minded about V6 and the two Edwins, which look deliberate to me. I see one as a red herring, and I don’t know which. Charleston could easily be V5 or V6.
There’s nothing that links V5 to Montreal except the old Citadel in Drummond, and I haven’t seen anything much to link V7 to SF except “air smells sweet” / Ghiradelli, and the fact Twain mentions the place.

maltedfalcon

Never! but it is kind of set in Jello.
again there is a pretty strong consensus of which verse goes with which city and why
of course, they could be wrong, but then that doesnt just affect a particular city it effects all the verses and what they are paired with.
because one change will cause a chain reaction of changes.
So if you are going to suggest a new verse/city pairing, then as part of looking at to see if it makes sense would be examining the likelyhood of other verses matching up with different cities based on your suggested change.

I think some of the more “grey area” verses (see what I did there) can interchange reasonably with one another. Maybe I should put together a more detailed post. I did post some thoughts in the NOLA thread, but they are blending together a little bit. I’ll see what I can do and maybe take it over to mythology.
Suffice to say, I think we have a few to work with that don’t necessarily have granite walls when matching to a verse. Those being:
Verse 2 (New Orleans, Montreal?)
Verse 3 (iffy? Maybe? Perhaps the weakest suggestion, but again, the poem we know, which is “the strongest tower” isn’t a reference to the subject, but to the author, so perhaps automatically assuming that the Sarmiento quote is New Orleans or the Longfellow paraphrase is Boston may be premature?)
Verse 5 (Everyone was sure this was Charleston for a while)
Verse 6 (Two sets of Edwins/Edwina’s to work with. The 8th as a date is not inscribed on any monument, that took much more digging to
connect the monument to that date).
Verse 7 (If the “Gh” is Great Highway and not Ghirardelli, it doesn’t help the connection to San Fran given that I always thought “the air smells sweet” was a great Image/Verse connection for Image1/Verse 7. Throw that out and we’re left with a slightly non-intuitive connection to Twain, but maybe here’s where we give Preiss credit on his trickery.
Verse 10 – We’ve been discussing this one. I wasn’t on the the committee that decided the “whirring sound” was a helicopter. Besides, the only place you’d hear the whirring sound is from locations that we’ve also somehow decided the cask couldn’t possibly be buried.
I don’t know. At least I’ve given an even number of verses so they can swap easily. I’ve tried a few combinations. Still working on some ideas.

Frisco

Somewhere they spell “grey” with an “e”, I bet.

Yes. In the Confederacy. Or in those areas still influenced by the crown and the Queens English, even if they are Francophones.
I take it my “Grey Cup” theory has not gained any traction with the crowd.

“Flights” had crossed my mind too, but that interpretation seems overly obscure to me.  Jacques Cartier the explorer wasn’t the man who made the name Cartier famous for diamonds.  (What diamonds he did bring back to France were actually worthless quartz crystals.)  But anyway, even then, Cartier made his voyages to the new world by boat.  As far as I know, his expeditions wouldn’t be called “flights” in French or in English.
FB, I like what you’re saying about it being a proper noun.  Hard is also capitalized, isn’t it?  Is there a connection then?

I thought at one time that this verse referred to Jacques Cartier. As you know, Cartier is famous for diamonds–and nothing harder exists…so “him of hard word” might be “him of diamonds” e.g.,
Cartier.
And if that is true, then “vols” can mean something completely different:  Cartier is French, and the French word “VOLS” means “flights”.
In three vols,
therefore, means “in three flights”.  A “flight” can mean either a set of stairs (unlikely) or three “escapes”—i.e., trips.
Cartier made exactly three trips to America.

Except that “Vols.” is capitalized and has a period after it, which indicates that it is (a) short for something and (b) refers to a proper noun.

WhiteRabbit

For me, the strongest ties are V3 Boston and V10 NY. I feel they’re pretty solid.
I wasn’t convinced about V2 for NO until someone pointed out 421’s “near this site” sign. Together with BP’s “right about St Louis” and Sarmiento, there seems to be a pretty good link to the Jackson Square area.
I’m still open-minded about V6 and the two Edwins, which look deliberate to me. I see one as a red herring, and I don’t know which. Charleston could easily be V5 or V6.
There’s nothing that links V5 to Montreal except the old Citadel in Drummond, and I haven’t seen anything much to link V7 to SF except “air smells sweet” / Ghiradelli, and the fact Twain mentions the place.

And Good summary to you. I mostly agree.
Can I ask what makes V3 and V10 so sure to you?
Forgive me because I just came up with this as I was about ready to respond, so the following is off the cuff. If we connect V3 to Boston then the quote from the verse would be a reference to “Longfellow” just as the poetic quote in V1 isn’t directing us to the subject of the quote, but rather a physical location named after the author. Right?
Regarding Verse 2, why should we not be looking for a “Sarmiento Avenue” or “Sarmiento Square” somewhere else (Montreal?) based on Verse 2 rather than just assuming since he was talking about a building in New Orleans that it must be New Orleans? Is that the key?. Twains attention would be the Mississippi to a lot of us, right? I’ve done some attempts to connect “Sarmiento” elsewhere with limited success but I admit I’m going to take a look at some new connections to other Diegos, or Sarmientos. I’ve already covered the Faustinos:
Back to super duper serious though, I also agree wholeheartedly about the V5/V6 quandary. I’m open to a scenario where V5 is Charleston, and some people might think the dominoes would topple into chaos after that regarding verse 6, but I think they all have homes in alternate scenarios.
As far as V10 is concerned, is it because of the Isle of B? Or the rhapsodic man, or both? I think we can find indies native and natives speaking of him of hard word in 3 volumes just about anywhere. Somebody, somewhere, decided that the “Rhapsodic Man” was Gershwin and it’s been accepted ever since. I don’t think that’s necessarily as sewn up.

There’s a statue of Sarmiento in Boston in the Commonwealth Avenue Mall near the Fens. 😛

Frisco

There’s a statue of Sarmiento in Boston in the Commonwealth Avenue Mall near the Fens. 😛

Whoa. Thats a cool find!

Haha, if you post a theory about V2 and Boston I’m going to put you on ignore for a week. :p

The knight (image 3) is inarguably linked to verse 11.
It contains multiple direct quotes.
Dark Forest on the plaque at the Elizabethan gardens and the “Dauntless” quote on the Wright Brothers Memorial.

Merlot Brougham

The knight (image 3) is inarguably linked to verse 11.
It contains multiple direct quotes.
Dark Forest on the plaque at the Elizabethan gardens and the “Dauntless” quote on the Wright Brothers Memorial.

Those link are certainly more concrete than the one i have suggested. Removing any link to England then, we still have the Rhapsodic soil, The Native indies and three volumes.
I listened to the piece earlier for the first 19 minutes and it suggested nothing to me in regards to The Secret. The piece was first played simultaneously in Chicago, New York, Boston, Philadelphia and San Francisco. (From wikipedia, but source is a book i have not checked.) If that’s of any significance, i don’t know.
As to whether Preiss was aware of this Opera is an entirely other prospect as it doesn’t appear well known.

Has anyone mentioned America: an epic rhapsody by Ernest Bloch. It’s in three parts and was inspired when Bloch read some Walt Whitman. Not sure what particular Whitman work. It was composed in San Fransico and first performed in new york. Pretty weak link until you learn, the first movement is called: The Soil – the Indians (England) the mayflower – the landing of the pilgrims.
I would argue this connection has more strength than Gershwin, as natives are mentioned, soils mentioned plus a link to immigration.
Could this link to the knight picture which seems to be thought to mean English immigration.
Sorry if it’s been looked at, search function doesn’t seem to work on my phone.

Anyone in NYC knows what PATH is.  I took the PATH to Madison Square Garden last night to go to a hockey game.  It was when I went as a passenger, and not as an Inspector, that I thought of this.  It is the other tunnel that goes to the WTC.

As I saw this photo, it struck me that
Ft. Wadsworth is literally in the “shadow of the grey giant”.
(Named for Brig. General James Wadsworth)
Wikipedia:
“Fort Wadsworth on Staten Island, one of the defenses of New York Harbor, also is named for the general; it is i
n the shadow of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge
.”
I don’t know if this area has been discussed yet.
But is sounds like an apt reference.
AP

For all of you non-New Yorkers, PATH is an acronym for Port Authority Trans Hudson.

I plan on getting over to this area as soon as possible, and will take any and all applicable photos.

Unknown

Unknown:
I would have to agree with you Kato….although, I am really beginning to hate NYC since there are sooooooooooooooooooo many parks that fit the bill

Fox:  You got me thinking (again) and it seems that I didn’t go far enough with the subway kiosk idea.  There are also many vest pocket or urban parks in New York City that are  situated in the middle of busy streets.  These small parks are located on isles or islands in the middle of urban thoroughfares, like Broadway.  Broadway is the spine of the Upper West side of Manhattan, and it is here that the
Broadway Malls Park
is located.  This park is in the middle of Broadway, on its own isles or islands, and stretches from 156th Street to 168th Street.  This puts it dead center in the Hamilton Heights neighborhood.  My research indicates that there is lots of public art located inside this 1.14 acre urban oasis, and that the park is used as public gallery space. Perhaps some of the renderings in Image 12 could possibly be found here.
As with some of the subway kiosks, you could look north at this park (or a section of it) and call it the “Isle of B.”  Since Broadway runs north and south the entire length of Manhattan, looking north at the Broadway Malls Park in Hamilton Heights is a simple exercise.

Kato

Since Broadway runs north and south the entire length of Manhattan, looking north at the Broadway Malls Park in Hamilton Heights is a simple exercise.

But would you be looking north at this possible isle of B if you were in the park under the GW Bridge?  I say we explore this area to death…and…upon once again finding nothing, we ALL meet in the Big Apple and systematically tear apart every park we can find until the casque is unearthed.  In no time at all, all of Manhattan will look like:

If we meet the Beers are on me.

Things got a little out of hand last time you said that Kato….

IanH84

View post on imgur.com

I can’t speak for anyone else, but it would seem the Ellis Island Ferry Building bird statues are a much better match than the Chrysler Building gargoyle, down to the tongue:
This is the Ferry Building:
The fact that the ferry slip on Ellis Island has red brick trim is a big clue for me considering it matches the red in outline in the image.

okay, i know i’m getting everything all confused, verses and images, but i wanted to post these pictures here that i found when i was reading image 9 thread (sheesh that’s long)
and i’m not sure how BP would mix up these two pictures, because the dogleg takes us to montreal but when we got there someone posted this picture:
http://www.clubmountstephen.net/V2/visi … lle_en.htm
isn’t that our lady from pic 12? or is that found everywhere?
and then someone posted a picture of this church in montreal:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58811959@N00/41035785/
have a good Christmas everyone!

i’m sorry, this should be under image 12 i guess.
! i told you i was getting confused!

This may have been stated before, but could the “grey giant” be the bridge itself?  (I’m going to have to go back and read this whole thread.)  From my reading, since he used “THE” grey giant and not “A” grey giant I believe that “the arm that extends” belongs to the giant.

Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
The definition of “arm”:
A relatively narrow extension jutting out from a large mass
Usually an arm is attached to something only on one end.
If we look at the “slender path” as the
Narrows
that refers to the entire area shown in red.
That covers the Brooklyn-side shore from Owl’s Head Park to the Verrazano Bridge.
(Brooklyn is the
land
on which Gershwin was born.)
The most obvious “arm” is the 69th street pier.  It juts out from the shore and extends over the Narrows.
So if we are walking toward the pier from the Verrazano Bridge (grey giant),
we pass several signs that display the name “Hamilton”.
The 69th St. Pier and Bedloe’s Island (Liberty Island) are both visible from Shore Rd Park,
but not from JPJ Park.
I am still liking Shore Rd. Park with its v-shaped sidewalk comprised of “steps” half way along.
The trees in image 12 may be the final x-marks-the-spot clues if we can find them.
AP
P.S.  The bulk of the visual clues may be used only to get us to New York City, since they are
seen in locations where most tourists would go when visiting the city.

A little bird told me lots of images had clocks
. Having considered this and reread the verse the key to tieing this verse to an image are two things. First the sign about Indies Native. Wether or not that sign is at the location of this verse most likely the place that this goes to has records. The other thing is the Hard Word of 3 Vols. This is likely a clue to a set of books. The correct city will most likely know right away what this talking about. The Park and Recreation Department and historical societies in these cities are good places to try. But we have to be relatively confident that we think this and other verses are likely matchs to an image before we use them. We can not send them everything and say help us
.

Pairing with image 9, I failed to work up a sensible Isle of B solution when I thought it was good enough to say there was an Isle from which looking north you could see land from where Burrard came, which was looking at the mainland of England from the Isle of Wight.  That was to justify the Burrard Inlet.  I shouldve said Isle = Aisle and that is the difference between a simple island and a simple passage.  Burrard Inlet is a waterway passage between Vancouver and North Vancouver at the area North of Stanley Park.

forest, remember how we used highway #12 for “in december” at roanoke?
do you think “in summer” means 6th avenue?  or 6th street (which goes over the williamsburg bridge to brooklyn, (domino sugar and the navy yard, and ends at washington plaza (or continental army plaza), which is a terminal  ;D  )
don’t you think we should take that PATH?
chief engineer of the bridge was
leffert
l. buck (leffert’s curve is mentioned in the book), i saw where they had a celebration on the 22nd of june to celebrate its 100th bday, but b4 it says it was opened on dec. 19th 1903

around mccarren park you have a russian orthodox church and another church with  a clock tower (607 humboldt street).
http://nycslav.blogspot.com/2008/09/wal … point.html
(oops! this should have been with the image 12 thread, gonna put it over there too)
if it’s between these two churches, seems like it would be at mccarren park

but then on the other hand…if it is 6th avenue ……i think it goes to washington square park…….which would make the line
“take twice (2)  as many east steps as the hour  (11)      (22)
washington’s bday……
and then again……fort greene park in brooklyn was washington park……….

okay, “him” can be a male or a thing (redundant?), lol
so i’m thinking this whole “him” is a bridge…………..gonna look into the hell gate bridge…….since she looks like she’s an angel
“The Hell Gate Bridge connects
Wards
Island to Astoria Queens”…………..To
Ward
the isle of B
architect
Gustav Lindenthal, Othmar Ammann
lol, and see a dictionary does fit………………..an  a bridge d one (abridged)  (hard word in 3 vols.)…….it didn’t have to be webster’s dictionary, just any old abridged one  ;D
but it could be any of the great bridges in ny… but with twice (2) as many east steps as the hour (11)=22……..must be
george washington bridge?
the williamsburg does end right at washington plaza…………..
and washington park road is right by fort greene park

slappy

forest, remember how we used highway #12 for “in december” at roanoke?

I remember that theory, but I don’t buy it. I think “December” is a reference to the Wright Brothers’ first successful flight at Kitty Hawk, which took place in December.

this site tells where the
Rune
with
Tune
on it is located..and if you look on google earth there is a big V (drive) at that location:
east of 4th avenue
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … /lief.html
Tune
is a synonym for
rhapsody
and from that you can get “saga”  or epic poem
and jotunheim, is land of the giants, but also home of the frost giants and
rock
giants
the waves in image 12 could be like the waves on the park sign, and of course now i am seeing a big reindeer in the waves
could mention that 5th avenue could be the V, but i think it would be behind the rock, and i’m hoping it’s right there on one side of the v drive…..
are you listening boogieman?

or…more linking the verse to Russia
wide ——broadway?
steppes——–plains, plain (simple?) (grand steps)
far marches————march, 3rd month, boundary?
abandoned———–left
rose up———awakened?  (get up in the ) morningside park?  cliffs at the park? rebellion?
and followed
black sea shore…(inland sea) the pond at morningside? over to riverside park?
ummm morningside park also has that seligman (bear and faun) statue,  (image 9?) with the cloven hoof
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/mornin … ights/6495
http://www.zyxwvvwxyz.com/wordpress/200 … side-park/
http://wikimapia.org/13890364/Carl-Schurz-Memorial
dedicated:      May 1913
” While you’re at Morningside Park, visit the charming Bear and Faun Fountain (114th St. and Morningside Ave., at foot of the stairway) and the statue of Lafayette meeting Washington (intersection of 114th St., Manhattan Avenue and Morningside Avenue). Nearby Columbia University (entrance at 116th St. and Broadway) has a number of representational sculptures, among them Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, Rodin’s Thinker, the Great God Pan, Alma Mater (by Daniel Chester French) and the Marteleur.”
thomas jefferson, alexander hamilton, alma mater
pan is playing a flute…. another goat leg
and the carl shurz monument , who commanded 3rd division, 11th company or something like that
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/mornin … ghts/11963
grand staircase..steps?:
http://crackertracker.blogspot.com/2010 … ument.html
they described shurz monument with an excedra……..etcetera?….or more?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34639903@N03/3538236009
carl shurz……kindergardians, and mugwumps….and wisconsin and new york………  and new orleans, i think,  hmmmm
he and his wife started the first kindergartens, and he was a mugwump
of course the other side of broaway goes to carl shurz park, and over into brooklyn………i think

http://ephemeralnewyork.files.wordpress … plaque.jpg
carrere grand stairs at riverside….looked like color of the clock to me
“the plain of claremont playground”
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/rivers … ights/6392
steppes, plain, simple?
this is a “giant rock”, dates from 1911
http://www.michaelminn.net/newyork/park … _memorial/

Or a future trearure hunter if this hunt is still going on.

I hope we don’t have to wait that long to dig up a casque!

think what a great story that would be shseverin11!

Vols.does not mean volume as in books, it’s capitalized because what it representing is a persons name. So it should be understand as volume as in sound, like a vowel. It’s the sound when they speak.

GoldenMartyr

Re: nearby, is that a hunch or is there something that leads you to believe this?

Maybe it is a hunch, but sentences with strange structures, or emphasis seem to be done that way to refer to more than one thing. This goes back to the theory of a walking path and then the casque location being two separate ways to interpret the verses. The problem is that I don’t know if this method is used in all of the puzzles.

Spiritr

Vols.does not mean volume as in books, it’s capitalized because what it representing is a persons name. So it should be understand as volume as in sound, like a vowel. It’s the sound when they speak.

As in a whisper, normal voice and shouting?

gManTexas

Maybe it is a hunch, but sentences with strange structures, or emphasis seem to be done that way to refer to more than one thing. This goes back to the theory of a walking path and then the casque location being two separate ways to interpret the verses.

gManTexas

The problem is that I don’t know if this method is used in all of the puzzles.

That’s cool, I was curious as to how you were looking at it.
The whole idea of a path is sort of a moot point imo. All puzzles should have a start, middle, and end so technically they all have a path. Whether the path is long or short is a different story and based on what has been uncovered, they vary.

GoldenMartyr

That’s cool, I was curious as to how you were looking at it.
The whole idea of a path is sort of a moot point imo. All puzzles should have a start, middle, and end so technically they all have a path. Whether the path is long or short is a different story and based on what has been uncovered, they vary.

I don’t know if I agree. I mean I agree that every puzzle should have a logical start, etc. What I am saying is that I believe the puzzles, maybe all of them have a walking path that takes you to certain objects or buildings to gain information. Then the verse can also be applied to a different set of objects when you are at the casque location.

gManTexas

As in a whisper, normal voice and shouting?

Yes a normal voice of sound, like a vowel. Combine it with what the Japanese book wrote, it can be understand as this “name” when spoke out in “Natives” “Hard word” (the H was capitalized and word is not a plural, meaning it’s a single word and the capitalized Hard is referring a language.) the pronunciation of this “name” has 3 vowels. And this “name/word” is commonly used with another name that starts with “Chicken”.
So just fill in the blanks and you’ll have it, “Chicken _ _ _ _ _ _ _”
*its 7 letters

You already told me this so I won’t chime in!

Spiritr

Yes a normal voice of sound, like a vowel. Combine it with what the Japanese book wrote, it can be understand as this “name” when spoke out in “Natives” “Hard word” (the H was capitalized and word is not a plural, meaning it’s a single word and the capitalized Hard is referring a language.) the pronunciation of this “name” has 3 vowels. And this “name/word” is commonly used with another name that starts with “Chicken”.
So just fill in the blanks and you’ll have it, “Chicken _ _ _ _ _ _ _”
*its 7 letters

I’m trying to follow you here and it’s not making sense, to me.
How do we equate a normal voice to a vowel? If you are leading to Dickens then you’ll have to explain what you wrote a whole lot better. Or better still, if you have an idea, just blurt it out so we can discuss the merits of the theory.

I’ve preached this for a long time but the line breaks here are extremely odd. There is a reason Nearby is moved to it’s own line.
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
What are the possible reasons for this? There has been years of discussion about filters. We can easily pull CYAN from the first letters of these lines:
Y
ou’ll often hear a whirring sound
C
ars abound
A
lthough the sign
N
earby

GoldenMartyr

There is a reason Nearby is moved to it’s own line.

Maybe BP just thought it looked more poetic? We should be grateful he didn’t go the full ee cummings.

WhiteRabbit

Maybe BP just thought it looked more poetic?

WR – I can’t overlook that possibility.
For a while, I believed that
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
should read
The natives still speak of
Him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Then I looked back and noticed BP started 10 verse lines with the word “of”. I believe he actually used of as a linking word to help with the ambiguity of the lines.
….but back to Nearby. There are only 3 single word lines in the verses. Lane, the first word in verse 9….Hush, the last word in verse 12….and Nearby which falls near the middle of verse 10. Two have hints in the Japanese version of the book and neither have a great interpretation. I have less of an issue with these two since they fall at the beginning and end. Nearby just feels out of place and screams, look at me all by my lonesome. Unless it is a structural thing as WR points out. Which then begs the question, is structure important to this verse?

I considered starting a thread titled Alternative Line Interpretations. The goal being to look at some commonly interpreted verse lines that have got us nowhere but could mean something else. I hate new threads for the most part so I decided not to. Here is an example.
The natives still speak – the natives continue to speak
The natives still speak – still speak = sign language – AISL or PISL

GoldenMartyr

I considered starting a thread titled Alternative Line Interpretations. The goal being to look at some commonly interpreted verse lines that have got us nowhere but could mean something else. I hate new threads for the most part so I decided not to. Here is an example.
The natives still speak – the natives continue to speak
The natives still speak – still speak = sign language – AISL or PISL

I’m not too keen on the sign language possibility, partially because you are more animated when using sign language than speaking.
My reading of these lines is such:
“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
The natives still speak
Of [him of Hard word in 3 Vols.] = substitute a name in the brackets.
Additionally, the natives could be speaking a different language, hence the sentence ending at speak. For example, Yiddish.
To your earlier point, the lone word “Nearby” is probably used for two separate things or situations.

gManTexas

I’m not too keen on the sign language possibility, partially because you are more animated when using sign language than speaking.
My reading of these lines is such:
“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
The natives still speak
Of [him of Hard word in 3 Vols.] = substitute a name in the brackets.
Additionally, the natives could be speaking a different language, hence the sentence ending at speak. For example, Yiddish.
To your earlier point, the lone word “Nearby” is probably used for two separate things or situations.

I tend to agree that this will be how the lines are read. That is the most commonly agreed upon interpretation. The goal of the above is to take lines where we have a commonly agreed upon interpretation that hasn’t led us to a spot and look at alternative interpretations. I often approach this by checking the definition of a word and it’s synonyms. For still you’ll run across quiet, soundless, etc.
Re: nearby, is that a hunch or is there something that leads you to believe this?

Welcome bemo12!
The VNB, if coming in from Statin Island turns into the Gowanus.  Also named the Brooklyn-Queens expressway- or I 278.  If you can find some
hard word in three vols.
about Gowanus, that would make me happy for sure.  Have you found a connection between either v10 or image12 to Leif Ericson?
BTW, been reading all the posts and u guys are cracking me up!

just a few ideas to toss around.
fort hamilton park is located right by leif ericson drive.
also gowanus expressway is nearby, possibly a sign near there pointing to it, and that is a word referring to native americans.
all i got so far. gonna look at this verse more closely, with the hopes it actually is nyc.
being so close and all.

eljayo

Hi Boogie,
When you’ll be there, don’t forget to check my theories (under the last (22-23) V shape of the Verrazano’s Bridge, sadly I lost all my pics)…
(I think you new spot is inside a closed parking area)

Hey Eljayo, haven’t heard from you in a while.  I just got back from a Florida vacation with the family, trying to catch up.  (nowhere near FOY
)  BTW, welcome aboard Ty.  I can tell where you get your smarts from…momma shecrab!
Back to v10.  I think that the new spot is so so simple, that it just may be the spot.  I know for a fact that the spot is a No-Parking Zone.  But from recent images from local.live.com there seems to be a construction container sitting on my X.  I’ll do some recon before anyone waists their time coming to dig.
As far as the 22-23 v shapes located just under the roadway of the bridge, it doesn’t really fit the wording of the verse.  The verse says
from
the middle of one branch of the v
and not one of the vees out of, let’s say, hundreds of vees.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
or more
from the middle of one branch
of the v
I welcome anyone who would like to disect this verse a little more.  I’m sure I’m still missing something…..

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Apologies if this has been covered many times. I ran a search and couldn’t find this point being discussed.
I have nothing earth-shattering here, but the use of the numeral “3” here rather than spelling out “three” seems deliberate. “Three” is the most frequent number in the verses. By my count, it occurs seven times in all. The other six times it is spelled out.
Style manuals vary, of course… and they’re different now than they were in the early 1980s. And I do realize that these are both poems and puzzles, and that style manuals don’t necessarily apply. That said, the main schools of thought today are 1) to spell out numbers up to nine and then use numerals beyond that… or 2) to spell out numbers up to one hundred.
The Secret
verses tend to lean toward “spell out ALL numbers no matter what.” Numbers over 10 and even over 100 are spelled out. “Nine eight two” in V1 is that way rather than “982” to maintain a certain cryptic level. But we have “fifteen” and “twenty-one” in V2, and “twelve” and even “two twenty two” in V5. This only holds up to a point, though. Verse 8 gives us “92,” “200” and “100” as well as three instances of “three.”
Still, V10 is the only place where “3” is used instead of “three.”
Maybe it means nothing. BUT… BP was a writer/editor/publisher, so I think he would have been acutely attuned to this. Has anyone considered this? Or can you make anything of it?

bosco61

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Apologies if this has been covered many times. I ran a search and couldn’t find this point being discussed.
I have nothing earth-shattering here, but the use of the numeral “3” here rather than spelling out “three” seems deliberate. “Three” is the most frequent number in the verses. By my count, it occurs seven times in all. The other six times it is spelled out.
Style manuals vary, of course… and they’re different now than they were in the early 1980s. And I do realize that these are both poems and puzzles, and that style manuals don’t necessarily apply. That said, the main schools of thought today are 1) to spell out numbers up to nine and then use numerals beyond that… or 2) to spell out numbers up to one hundred.
The Secret
verses tend to lean toward “spell out ALL numbers no matter what.” Numbers over 10 and even over 100 are spelled out. “Nine eight two” in V1 is that way rather than “982” to maintain a certain cryptic level. But we have “fifteen” and “twenty-one” in V2, and “twelve” and even “two twenty two” in V5. This only hold up to a point, though. Verse 8 gives us “92,” “200” and “100” as well as three instances of “three.”
Still, V10 is the only place where “3” is used instead of “three.”
Maybe it means nothing. BUT… BP was a writer/editor/publisher, so I think he would have been acutely attuned to this. Has anyone considered this? Or can you make anything of it?

I like this line of thinking. I haven’t been able to decipher it either, but it may have been just to mix things up. My take on using numbers, independent of the puzzles, is that hard numbers are assigned to objects like 982, or 123 Main Street. Usually, coordinates and years are given hard numbers as well. Sometimes, especially in the old days, years could be spelled out, for example, the Stock Market Crash of Twenty-Nine. I think this fell out of favor in the mid twentieth century (there I go again).
As for the 3 Vols. Assuming this is a literary reference to a set of 3 books, that would be a standard convention.

bosco61

The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Apologies if this has been covered many times. I ran a search and couldn’t find this point being discussed.
I have nothing earth-shattering here, but the use of the numeral “3” here rather than spelling out “three” seems deliberate. “Three” is the most frequent number in the verses. By my count, it occurs seven times in all. The other six times it is spelled out.
Style manuals vary, of course… and they’re different now than they were in the early 1980s. And I do realize that these are both poems and puzzles, and that style manuals don’t necessarily apply. That said, the main schools of thought today are 1) to spell out numbers up to nine and then use numerals beyond that… or 2) to spell out numbers up to one hundred.
The Secret
verses tend to lean toward “spell out ALL numbers no matter what.” Numbers over 10 and even over 100 are spelled out. “Nine eight two” in V1 is that way rather than “982” to maintain a certain cryptic level. But we have “fifteen” and “twenty-one” in V2, and “twelve” and even “two twenty two” in V5. This only holds up to a point, though. Verse 8 gives us “92,” “200” and “100” as well as three instances of “three.”
Still, V10 is the only place where “3” is used instead of “three.”
Maybe it means nothing. BUT… BP was a writer/editor/publisher, so I think he would have been acutely attuned to this. Has anyone considered this? Or can you make anything of it?

I think that is a valid observation, but I can not make anything of it as of yet.

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/de8 … 95cc8c0098
these are the ones I was using

burnstyle

http://12treasures.com/corrected.rar

Thanks BS, these are the exact scans I have. I think I downloaded from wiki a while back. I can tell by spots and imperfections unique to that upload.

karleen

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/de8f7d60-15f5-4dda-ab95-9a95cc8c0098
these are the ones I was using

Karleen, these are very low resolution scans. You can tell by pixelation and the size of the file. Your image12 is 176KB where BS’s image12 is 1900KB.
I was criticised in the past for posting findings that were not there when I was using unreliable image scan. A valuable suggestion was to use multiple HI-RES. scans to verify my findings. That’s why I asked if you were comparing your findings using multiple hi-res. scans.
Focusing on the clock face I clearly see an outline of a large Y in your video. However I can not see it in the available hi-res. scan no matter how much I like it to be there.
As the case may be that your extensive training as a pointillist artist may give you this advantage of detecting minut patterns or strokes not detectable to untrained masses.

Choice

I didn’t get any PM’s. Must’ve gone to the PM heaven in the clouds.
Perhaps you should post the links on the board so others may benefit from them too.

http://12treasures.com/corrected.rar

Being originally from Brooklyn, and reading
almost
everything on it, I am shocked to learn that Brooklyn is a county that lies within Long Island NY.  It is considered a borough of NYC, but at the same time, it is a county of Long Island.  Geez….
Isle of B.  Isle of Brooklyn
hence, gaze north at Long Island?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island
Check out the overview from Wikipedia and the map on the top right hand side of the page above.  If this is true, we are digging in either the shores Staten Island, or New Jersey.

I just learned that the island on which the Statue of Liberty stands,
was once named Bedloe’s Island…hmmm…any New York City native
must have known this….(isle of B)
The Shore Rd. Park has a North-gazing view of Liberty (Bedloe’s) Island,
and also has a view of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge.  It has a “v” shape
in its walkways…It is relatively out-of-the-way. It is also close to Fort Hamilton.
If you go to the Google street-view, it offers several photos of things
that can be seen from the park.
Here is a Flickr album of photos taken from Shore Rd. Park.
Apparently you can see the Statue of Liberty from there.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/emilio_guerra/3695491472/
Looks like it could be a place of great interest…

I kept trying to find a sculpture to account for the
female figure with arms held out in image 12…
The arms of the sculpture of Alice in Wonderland in Central Park
have a good deal of similarity…Also, the face in the front of the robe,
has a certain resemblance  to the  Mad Hatter’s face.
I know that Central Park is not the treasure location…
It may just be a NYC visual confirmer.
If you look at the figure’s robe folds, around the area of the right
shoulder/arm. (on the left of the image)…it looks like a tree trunk.

animal painter

I just learned that the island on which the Statue of Liberty stands, was once named Bedloe’s Island

Good find. I like that…

A church in Battery park NY.  I’ve showed this before, but worth showing again.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/garrets/3314785737/

Boogie,
The more I look at the verse and the area,
the more I think BP is referring to Ft Hamilton Park
or the park along that shore.
It is “in the shadow of the grey giant” (The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge).
It is “rhapsodic man’s soil” (Brooklyn, birthplace of George Gershwin)
It has a North-gaze view of the “isle of B” (Bedloe’s Island)
We would have to find the “arm over the slender path” in the park.
It could be a tree branch, a light post or a sign over the sidewalk…
The “simple roots” might still be there…grass of some sort.
AP

I don’t think it’s possible to see Bedloe’s Island from Fort Hamilton. But if we are focusing on Fort Hamilton again, remember that what led us there to begin with was that the NARROWS bridge could be the SLENDER path. More BP wordplay.

There’s a Narrows Road that stretches left of the bridge.

FB,
I do not think Fort Hamilton itself is the location,
but the park area along the shore near the bridge.
It is possible to see Bedloe’s Island from the Shore Rd Park…
which appears to be an extension of Ft Hamilton Park along the shore.
Where one park stops and the other begins, I do not know.
The verse says only that the sign nearby speaks of the Indies native.
We have the signs for Fort Hamilton and Ft. Hamilton Park.
The more I look at the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, the more it
seems to fit the description of the “grey giant”…So we would
be looking in its shadow…or land that could fall within/near its shadow.
I will be looking for photos of the park areas along the shoreline
to see if there is a significant visible “arm”of some sort.
AP

WhiteRabbit

There’s a Narrows Road that stretches left of the bridge.

I like that!

trying to be open minded Cormac…If you can, explain to me again how the verse10 or Image12 leads you to prospect park.  I mean, I cant get past the Narrows, twin Tower, arm and slender path leading anywhere outside of the harbor.  PP is not in the shadow of the grey giant.  If we can agree on slender path and the verrazano, how do we then head to PP according to the verse?  We can make it fit anywhere, like we have seen, but is doesnt lead me there.

forest_blight

This is a great theory, Malt, were there not such strong support linking V6 to Charleston.
One suggestion: I see no reason to associate “grey giant” with the Citadel. Why can’t it be a tree, and the “arm” could be a branch that extends over one of the park paths? There are plenty of large live oaks in that park.

Actually I was watching a football game and the announcer was describing the schools and the he called the Citadel “The Grey Giant”  not being from there I have no idea if  that is a common nickname or not. but I looked it up and there was a park
next to it. with a lake with an island in the lake that could be considered the isle of B.
somebody local would know better- but my main point is boy the boards are dead, – might be better to talk about wild ideas, think outside the box etc etc.,, then just re-hash the same stuff over and over.

Thank you Boogie (and everyone else) for the open-mindedness in this forum.
I’m sure many of my thoughts require this
BP puts several clues that it is near NY, but like the Chicago hunt I don’t think he stays in the immediate area of the obvious (tourist) clues.
Another idea influencing my thinking is the one where we have a starting point… head a little distance… then head or turn left into the dig area…
If from the “V” we are to take “east steps”, this would be a left turn if we arrived at the “V” from the north.
First we need our start point.
Rather than thinking of Prospect Park being “in the shadow of the grey giant”
I think that the 4 lines as one sentence makes a lot more sense, and aside from Image12 basically telling us to go to NY, these are our first actual instructions
“In the shadow Of the grey giant, Find the arm that Extends over the slender path”
paraphrasing:
Within the general area of the “grey giant”, you will find your start point at the “arm that extends over the slender path.”
Within the Image12 a prominent feature is the water at the base of the picture.
To me,  the wave on the left is too similar to the Chinese Lion to be a coincidence. (In previous posts it was referred to as possibly a Chinese foo dog) This is at the entrance of the Buddhist temple at 113 Canal Street …basically the beginning of the Manhattan Bridge.
In Image12 the water wave ridge spans the picture like a bridge with the Chinese Lion facing forward possibly indicating we should cross the water.
The whole image almost implies we should look out over the water.
Now lets look at the path.
This “path” could be the East River.    I know… Bear with me here…
The East river is a narrow tidal strait connecting Upper New York Bay with Long Island Sound and separating the boroughs of Manhattan and the Bronx from Brooklyn and Queens.
and the definition of a strait…
noun:   A narrow channel joining two larger bodies of water.
So … our “slender path” could easily be a narrow channel…
(a simple play on words without taking things too literally)
our “arm that Extends over” that “slender path” could be the Manhattan Bridge especially if that Chinese Lion at the Buddhist Temple is our starting point.
Following this “arm” takes us from one island to the other and leads us to Prospect Park.

I can see at narrow body of water being a slender path – no problem.
and an arm over that path would be a bridge
so where do you dig?

Whoa, I didn’t know folks here considered Stanley Park way back as early as page 6 in this thread when Aces88 mentioned it.  Even Wilhouse landed some considerations on the Harding memorial.  Everything changed when Ravel07 found the Legeater on Aug. 11, 2006.
A friend of mine is driving up to Whistler next week.  I’m going to run it by him to see if he’s willing to stop at my proposed location for a dig 18 paces west of the northern most checkerboard’s center.

Whoa, I didn’t know folks here considered Stanley Park way back as early as page 6 in this thread when Aces88 mentioned it.  Even Wilhouse landed some considerations on the
Harding
memorial.  Everything changed when Ravel07 found the Legeater on Aug. 11, 2006.
A friend of mine is driving up to Whistler next week.  I’m going to run it by him to see if he’s willing to stop at my proposed location for a dig 18 paces west of the northern most checkerboard’s center.

Fox,
Fort Hamilton is still a working military base. If there is a cask in the area, I don’t believe it would be on Fort Hamilton, but rather very close and nearby. You likely could not get on the Base without official business, nevermind digging up the grounds.
King

Also,
That is not the base in the picture. This picture is of the Brooklyn side of the bridge ( where Hamilton is ) but the base is on the south side of the entrance to the bridge

ah, thx Wilson.  That is what I was afraid of.  Hmmmm.

Here is a link for Staten Island and some
clickable areas…
http://www.si-web.com/Recreation/
Take a look at the blurb concerning
‘South Beach’ – which is close to
the bridge and the fort..
My point is that it mentions a small
island in the narrows which goes
unnamed..
Someone will need to confirm that this
island is called “Tom Bell’s Island”

Nope…
It is called Hoffman’s Isalnd.
Tom Bell’s Island/Woods is at the south/west section of south
beach… away from the Fort and the bridge.

I too am really liking Ft Hamilton.  That kind of play on words is exactly like quoting Melville to lead us to Houston.  Great find.  Havent done any research on Ft Ham yet, would it be diggable?…or is it a state park or the likes?
might I suggest you fellows keep narrowing it down….but not too fast, tho…
My wife, 7yr old son and I are taking a trip to the big apple in July for a one time reunion concert of Dispatch.  Never been to NY and we are soooooo excited.  How cool would it be to include unearthing a “Secret” casque as well as visiting Lady Liberty, the Empire State building and Central Park?
Would love to meet up with any NY hunters even if the casque is found before then so you can walk me thru the find.
Keep up the good work guys….let us find us another casque

Is this our Ft Hamilton area under the Verrezano Bridge?

Link for John Paul Jones Park (Brooklyn)
http://www.qsl.net/bklynqrp/jpj-park.htm
just outside of one of the gates to the Fort Hamilton.
I didn’t see anything that caught my attention,
but maybe someone else will.
I did have that thought that “branch” could refer
to a military one.

Near here… the only thing ‘extending into the water’
or
‘find the arm that extends over the slender path’
is some greenry of the John Jones Park
that is designated as
Leif Erickson….
http://gis.nyc.gov/parks/lc/NYCParkMapIt.do

A link to nearby “Fort Hamilton Memorial Park”
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par … hp?id=7835
At least here we have a eagle to look at.

Okay, thanks.  I was hoping this would fall under the non wordplay element.  Etymology is just about the origin of meaning.  One word that means “greater” vs another word that also means “greater”.  Whether or not BP would choose words carefully in this way is all I’m toying with.

Mentioning “gray giant” and “simple roots” in the same sentence only makes me think of “Just for Men” hair products.
(sorry, i have nothing to contribute, but i am reading along in silence, usually)

catherwood

Mentioning “gray giant” and “simple roots” in the same sentence only makes me think of “Just for Men” hair products.
(sorry, i have nothing to contribute, but i am reading along in silence, usually)

Does she or doesn’t she?

shecrab

No.

Shecrab, i was hoping for the usual stalwart and robust response.  If assuming this can be a meaningful dialogue, would anyone else like to weigh in on whether or not the word Mayor is a big or small stretch from BP’s word choice of ‘giant’?    Im sttill chewing on the idea, which is why I ask.  I dont wish to be too loose in my iinterpretation of synonym.

I think it’s a pretty big stretch. But occasional stretching can be healthy.

Unknown

Unknown:
Shecrab, you seem to have a flair for the rhapsodic as well.  Is it at all interesting to you that the etymology of the word ‘mayor’ means “greater or superior” which is reasonably synonomous with the word ‘giant’ and the coincidental fact that the amphitheater of this park, Malkin, is the name of the Mayor of 1920’s Grey Point?  It serves as a logical associaion to “grey giant”.  The Malkn Theater is a sizable structure and sunlight does shine upon it, therefore it can cast a shadow.  Does it grab your attention that the Harding Memorial is right next to this building?

No.

catherwood

(sorry, i have nothing to contribute, but i am reading along in silence, usually)

(Hey, long time no see catherwood! I think the last time was back on Schatzsuche…)

The “usual stalwart and robust response?” No. Sorry. I don’t buy this layered wordplay. I don’t believe these puzzles have that much distance between the words and the conclusions. And I don’t believe this verse goes with this location.

sure, I think it borders on ludicrous.

http://www.ascemetsection.org/content/view/340/874/
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm … /index.htm
Cars abound
———-could be a parking lot, maybe where the staten island ferry or st. george terminal is located
i like the beige/tan color at this terminal….like where her head is
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/20 … in_st.html
just thinking…….grover cleveland was the
22nd
and
24th
president of the US…and he was born in new jersey  ..
http://www.presidentialavenue.com/gc.cfm
and he was the one that officially accepted the statue of liberty:
http://www.nj.gov/nj/about/resources/st … berty.html

If it is One WTC, and you find the arm over the Narrows, the X can be anywhere in between.  Even battery Park where we have the Hamilton Customs House.  Three Bank of NY buildings, which the Bank of NY was created by Hamilton.  Heli pads, big square clock set in grey, perfect view of Lady Liberty and Ellis Island (domed roof).  How’s that for insanity?

There was some question about work done recently in Shore Rd Park,
which questioned the age of the steps near the baseball diamond.
I wrote to the Shore Road Parks Conservancy to see if the age of
the steps could be verified.  This is the response I received:
I’ve been in touch with Art DeCesario who is the Park & Recreation
Manager for our District and in turn Art contacted Kaitilin Griffin who is
the Parks’ Librarian for NYC Dept of Parks & Recreation.
The story from so far is that the park was transferred to Dept of Parks in
1945, so that the steps were in all likelihood built after that date, most
probably by Moses before the end of his tenure in the late 1960’s.
As there are not any signs of a capital project since then for that section
of the park it’s quite probably the late 60’s as indicated by Kaitilin.
I am attending the monthly Executive Board meeting of the Conservancy this
week and there are some life-long residents of Bay Ridge on the board so I
will ask there as well.
As I find out more I’ll let you know.
Best regards and many thanks for your interest.
Robert Hutt
Corresponding Secretary
Shore Road Parks Conservancy

Boogie,
Do you have a picture of the clock face that looks
like the one in image 12?
I think BP used some visual markers of Manhattan
for the sake of narrowing down the possibilities
of locations from around the entire country.
(The same way he used silhouettes of recognizable
city buildings in Milwaukee…City Hall.)
Milwaukee’s City Hall is not visible from the Lake Front,
but it is a visual location clue.
The same with NYC visual clues in image 12.
They may not be visible from the exact treasure location,
but they do narrow down the search.
Some of these clues would be the WTC, the Russian Orthodox
church silhouette, the bird (looking like the Chrysler building “gargoyle”)
the similar pose of Alice in Wonderland at Central Park to the pose of
Image 12’s figure…even the resemblance of the Mad Hatter’s face
to the face on the figure’s robe. They point to Manhattan.
Once BP gets us to NYC, he then directs us with the clues in the verse.
AP

animal painter

Boogie,
I don’t think anyone expects you to go digging in the
middle of winter.

Speak for yourself AP
We are counting on you Boogie….get out there and do your job.  lol

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jewishfan/4800187901/
this url is from Battery Park at the southern tip of manhattan.  behind it is the heliport.
BTW AP , your enthusiasm is very appreciated.
You too Slappy and Co.
Fox, i can use a man who knows how to dig holes……randomly.
When’s your next visit?
White rabbit, all things point to brooklyn, but like JJP (artist for the images) once told me, elves can be tricksters you know.

Boogie,
On the clock-face in image 12
the Roman numerals are drawn
straight across and all are right side up.
On almost every clock-face I have found
so far, the numerals are drawn around
the arc-shape of a circle..and the VI
is always drawn upside down.
When we find the VI  right-side-up and
straight across, it may lead to a specific location.
(Of course, there is always the rebus-type clue
for Times Square.)

The Russian architecture might be St Petersburg, where Gershwin’s parents came from.
It’s gotta be the Brooklyn side for me.

NYC subway cars from 70s and 80s.  Notice the colors?
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26544

happy new year everyone!!! just thought i’d jump in and say the old guy is happy to see you guys (and gals) may think there is a connection between the pics, verses, and the rest of the book… like tying the pics with the verses through the landing of the different races (folletti, etc) with their stones and last known locations. hey, thats what i tried to convey months ago when nobody would listen. oh yeah… i’m back!  …just havin fun!

So many clues focusing on Manhattan.
I had been drawn to Brooklyn, because Gershwin
was born in Brooklyn, but now…I find that one
of Gershwin’s famous musical pieces is called..
“Manhattan Rhapsody”  (also called New York Rhapsody
or Second Rhapsody).  It was written as the score
for the 1931 movie “Delicious”.
You can hear it at this link…at the bottom of the page.
http://www.jackgibbons.com/2nd_rhapsody.htm
This opens the possibility of Manhattan as the location
of the casque.  I see a walkway at 10th st and at 6th st
over East River Dr. Bikeway leading to East River Park,
(an arm over a slender path)
where there are baseball diamonds (“v”) with a branch
heading East.  One ends almost at the River’s edge, where
you can look north to gaze at Belmont or Blackwell’s Island.
There are signs for Hamilton dotted over Manhattan
(as well as nearby Hamilton Fish Park).
Food for thought.
This is the Eastward branch of the ball-field just north of the Williamsburg Bridge.
The treeline goes almost to the river…where you might see “simple roots”.

I have always wondered why the “tower” in image 12 was outlined in red.
I think I may have figured it out.
Our visual clues seem to all be in Manhattan.
There is a small park directly across from the UN…called Ralph Bunche Park.
(on 1st Ave between 42nd and 43rd st)
In Sept of 1980, they erected this memorial obelisk there.
It is made of reflective silver metal…and when you look at it,
its edges are red…reflecting the red brick from the surrounding buildings.

The image 12 “tower” also bears a resemblance to the side view of the UN Building…
but it is not outlined in red…

JJP….There is no signature on P12, is there?  Don’t have my book back yet, anyone know who painted this one?  How funny would that be if JJP signed it JPJ as a clue.

boogieman

Forgive me for rambling on about this but it’s the only way I can figure to keep it fresh.  And this thread doesn’t end so i can keep going on and on and on and on.

watch out.. here comes the boogieman

Trohn

Boogie Man/ Forest :
(1)  It makes sense that one of the casques would be in Brooklyn
(where he lived)
(

so true.  now, how about a bigger stretch to chew on?  If BP did indeed choose John Paul Jones park…could it have been for reasons other than just liking the park?  Move Mr. Jones’ middle name to his last and gaze at the initials.

For Charleston we have the mystery of the Gold Bug, for Roanoke there’s the mystery of the 13th colony, and for New York we have The Shore Road Mystery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shore_Road_Mystery
Hardy Boys – Hard word…?
There might be some whirring sounds going on in Franklin Dixon’s other books. Eg: “…rustling among the leaves of the trees was followed by a whirring sound…”
http://fliiby.com/download.php?f_id=409 … kg.rtf&s=1
“Microcosm, honest reader, is a hard word.”
(Another Franklin – Benjamin.)
In three vols…
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8360722
Clock on 11. Eleventh Hardy Boys book – “While the clock ticked”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/While_the_Clock_Ticked
Or maybe that’s the one we use to solve New Orleans.  😉

I always thought that the grey giant was the City of New York itself. Since the sun rises in the east, “In the shadow” of the grey giant would have to mean west of the city.
When you are talking about the city, with so many large structures–bridges, skyscrapers, monuments–it would be really almost impossible to pick out just one and call that one a “giant” anything. Compared to the entire city, which IS a giant (and which, BTW, has a team called the Giants,) nothing seems large enough to be called a single giant. That’s why I took this as far more general than specific.

forest_blight

Q4T is full of brain farts, so you’re in good company. Liberty State Park makes total sense, if you can build a case around it.

I’ve read lots of threads but am keen on the possibility of Battery Park or, better yet, Old Glory Lookout in Bay Ridge, near Brooklyn

The Custom House became the Museum of the American Indian in 1994…

boogieman

eljayo, is this where you think the X is?
I thought that too.  Only that
rhapsodic soil
has to be JPJ monument, no?
If Fox and I ever get there, we’ll look at the bottom of that support, and maybe some rhapsodic man will jump out.  Like some kind of marking on that wall.
FB, you got something more on the
Humble
rhapsodic man?

Not really under the bridge. I think like you about
rhapsodic soil
not in JPJ monument but in JPJ park.
I mean, If you stand on the bridge between 22-23 steps”, and see north (toward the isle of B) and look down… you will see sometings like a ‘circular hut’ (it is wood? possible single root?) exactly in the line of sight
Perhaps the exact ‘X’ will be done by intercept this line of sight toward north with something in the park (Lamppost or other stuf) aligned in perspective with the picture’s shape. (I know… noting in verse or images hint about this, but could be).

Unknown

Unknown:
Niagra Ontarium was a popular theory but no firm spot was found in or around Victoria Park or
Rainbow Bridge.  I was looking for a ‘Isle of B’ but never found one there to the North.
Shecrab, please provide a link to the likely Isle you found….

I don’t have a link. Almost any map of the falls area will show Great Isle, and to the north, Bird Isle. It’s a very small little island. Horseshoe Falls spans the river between the shore and Great Isle, and Bird is the smallest island just to Great Isle’s north shore.
Ck
PLEASE SEE MY ANNOUNCEMENT IN THE GENERAL MESSAGES SECTION OF THE SECRET FORUM.

Eljayo-
The ‘hut’ in the park is being referred to as a ‘gazebo’
and from the ‘father of the navy’ monument
one would look directly past it to see Bedlow Island
to the North.
The thought is that Gaze North is a word play phase
for the gazebo.

boogieman

Shecrab, I liked the way the verse fits, but image2 I’m stuck on Charleston like everyone else.  And, since I live near NY, I will exhaust all ideas there before heading to Niagara.  I have relatives up there if needed in a pinch.  Thanks for posting that.  Interesting indeed.  I can tell you honestly that at one time I was hooked on Niagara, I even ordered a video from National Geographics on it.  But right now, the
slender path
has me hooked on the Narrows Inlet.
Shannon, if you look back through this thread, you’ll find that Hamilton wrote the
Federalists Papers
contained in 3 volumes.  The phrase
hard word
had been italicized throughout the writngs.  Google it and you’ll find them. We found that hard to be just a mere coincidence.  On the Brooklyn side of the Verrazano, JPJ Park is to the north side, and Fort Hamilton is at the south side of the bridge (sign nearby).  We just need the v.  (well, I just need the v, Trohn thinks he has it, but I don’t see it).

I think a more telling interpretation at this locaton is
interpretting “simple roots” to mean “father”
Start at the corner of 4th and Shore Road (north east)
Take your twenty two east steps from here and see if it takes you to a dig spot…..
Let us know. (hmmm…. say that together…. 4 Shore… reminds me of the gettysburg Adress)
thereby – “simple roots” and “middle of one branch”
at the sign (where it was located in 1980) in the ground
indicating “father of the american navy”