Do you have a 1982 era map that shows the limits of compost area #2? Or something that even shows an area labeled anything similar?
Do you have a way to narrow down your search area to a 5 1/2” square? From your drawing, the red lines create a very large search area by the time it gets to the victory gardens.
In my opinion, those are two pretty important items to establish before much stock can be into this theory.

As I haven’t found any postings about this verse and Montreal, has there been any real consideration/discussion about this? I’ve recently given thought to the idea that the “five steps” may be referencing the five leading up to the “middle section” of Mount Stephen Club’s enterence, also being “lit by (legeater’s) lamplight.”
Also, the keys seem to reside very close to the most exact representations in the image… the ones that are actually drawings of something recognizable in real life when at the correct location. Image 9’s legeater, I believe, will remain the most exact representation in the picture (even if buidlings’ sillouettes can/continue to be found).
There also could be a emphasis/syllable pattern in key lines that connect with the pictures (not that other lines don’t fit the same scheme)…
seek the col lumns
fence and fix ture
lit by lamp light
Could the “coliseum” be Windsor Station… marked by the Roman Numeral X (symbol for station)? It is modeled after Roman coliseum architecture.
Merry Christmas all!
And yes, I do realize that this verse is more easily connected to Boston/Image 11, just trying to keep thoughts flowing

Thanks again to BINGO for this side-by-side:
https://i.imgur.com/fXH38HI.png

MrBackstop

Thanks again to BINGO for this side-by-side:
https://i.imgur.com/fXH38HI.png

ah, it’s my good old “hand opening the box”!

Box? You mean lantern?

Choice

Box? You mean lantern?

no, i meant box.

I want to give Strike total credit for one of the clues that solidified my final dig spot.
She is the one that realized “Face the water” meant two things. First, in the logical sense meaning face a body of water (Muddy River) and secondly, in a literal sense, the river bank of the Muddy River on the Victory Gardens side, makes the shape of a human profile.
Strike, I thought this was an incredible observation months ago.

loph, i like your ideas on where (& when BP) probably buried the casques….but…….there is NOWHERE on the trail fitting any of your criteria?  How about a nice secluded park a block off of the trail?  Maybe we follow the trail until we see the (?), take a left and hit the park.  I really like abq’s finds.
abq, nice work.  now for a dumb question..  does the trail end up anywhere near the Fens? as of now, this park seems to fit both loph’s theory as well as the 2 found locations quite nicely.
yes bclews, I did post that some time back and your photo of the Cleveland wall is precisely what I was referring to.  😮 and look, Xenophon is north of Thucydides.  hmmm, is there anything (or anyone ie…herodotus) in Boston near our possible sites?  Maybe there are clues in other V’s/P’s leading to the next site?  ……  or would that be too complicated to set up?

You just might have articulated that phrase better than you think.  The thing that seems to bother us most is that both names are men, so “his” could be either of them.  You probably noticed I’m a huge fan of placing a second meaning on a word, your “replace is with equal” works for me. but we then still need to determine if T is literally his name, a statue, or an abstract that could represent him.  I like your thinking.
—-
I know that Old South Church has been mentioned.  I just found the most awsome photo of this place.  Take a look:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shyto/2241181044/
Out of literally hundreds of photos of that church that I’ve looked at that just is AMAZING.
Also created a new analogy in my head:
What if “green tower of lights” meant an analogy for “light of God”?  I don’t buy it because I don’t think BP would get religious on us.  However, like everything else I don’t think the concept should be swept aside.  Perhaps replace the word “tower” with “steeple”?

Another “green tower of lights” photo.  This one shows the tower on one side of “Old South Church” at night.  This MAY be a trick of light due to happenstance on the part of the photographer.  But it APPEARS to have green light coming out of it.  I will try to find a better night time photo of this particular part of the church.  Maybe someone here has already seen better night time photos of this?  The angle the photo is taken from and the distance really could just make this an “accident” so know that before you look:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leecullivan/957318217/

Well, if “steps” actually means paces then the ONLY direction that would mean anything is South.  When you area looking at the wall you are facing West — five steps West takes you nowhere.  Turn around and five steps East also takes you nowhere.  Turn North and again five steps takes you nowhere.  However, five steps to the South takes you to the edge of the building and the street corner.  It’s not much of a landmark, but it is a specific place to begin the hunt.
Of course, if “five steps” means anything else…..

I forgot to take the theory all the way to the end. If we are to go in Thucydides direction, BP is not saying to go toward Thucydides. He is saying to go north (the direction associated with Thucydides (T=North).  But as someone pointed out, 5 steps north doesn’t take you anywhere….unless steps mean something else….

Er….
It doesn’t make any difference whether Thucydides is North of Xenophon because you might have to go in
any direction
—let me explain:
if T is North of X, then Thucydides is North, and Xenophon is South. If the “his”  refers to Xenophon, you go south, if it refers to Thucydides, you go North.  You have only two choices.
So:  IF T is north of X, then go EITHER five steps north
or
five steps south.
BUT…if Thucydides is NOT north of Xenophon,
then it does not necessarily imply
that Xenophon is North of Thucydides.  Xenophon may be ANY direction from Thucydides —
North, South, East, or West.
That way, if the “his” refers to Thucydides, you can go five steps in ANY direction, and it would be the same for Xenophon if the “his” referred to him.
And BTW: you can also add two other directions into this mix….UP and DOWN. If “north” refers to “up,” then it’s opposite is “down.” So perhaps, “five steps” means
GO UP (or DOWN) FIVE STAIRS.
Note also that it says
five steps IN THE AREA of his direction
. That means, literally, that you must be IN THE AREA already. It does not say “in to the area” or “toward the area,” it says IN.  If you were giving someone directions you would not say it this way–you would say “take five steps north,” or “take five steps
toward
the north,” implying that you were not there yet. Preiss wrote this as if you would already BE IN the area, and need only take five steps somewhere.

“AREA” can also mean ‘field of expertise’
so if one would take five steps ‘in the area of his direction’
you would take five steps into something related to his subject
or teachings….

Trohn

“AREA” can also mean ‘field of expertise’
so if one would take five steps ‘in the area of his direction’
you would take five steps into something related to his subject
or teachings….

yep… Ringo touched on that earlier.  Nice thought.  Area of Politics or Philosophy?

Thucydides and Xenophon were both historians. Thucy only wrote one book, the History of the Peloponnesian Wars. He is considered a benchmark military historian and his writing is required reading at the Naval War College.  Xenophon, OTOH, was more broadly drawn. He was considered to be an expert in horsemanship, (may have been the original “horse whisperer”) and he wrote more about everyday life in Greece. His greatest work, The Anabasis, is about the march of the Ten Thousand (Persians) during the same war that TH. wrote about.
Interestingly enough, both were Athenians, but one fought for Athens, and the other for Sparta.

shecrab

His greatest work, The Anabasis, is about the march of the Ten Thousand (Persians) during the same war that TH. wrote about.

I believe the Ten Thousand were Greek mercenaries that were hired to fight in a Persian army.

You are correct, digger. My answer was unclear.

boogieman

Trohn, In verse, there are no sentences.  And usually, as like these verses, the reader completes the thought.
I see what you are saying FB.  I was looking at it differently.  It basically comes back to the word “IF” again.  Take that word out of there and you have the name of the person for which direction to travel in.
Thucydides is north
Of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
What “IF” not?

In computer programing if/then logic works on the premis that if there is no “else” clause the word else is implied to just bypass the “then” clause and keep going.  Since this wouldn’t work in the case of the verse, we have to assume there is no else.  T MUST be North of X to even start.
PERHAPS:
Bp might have known that someone could get close on the Cleveland one with the painting alone?  The if/then logic works like this:
Engraved in stone you will notice in the Cleveland find X was above or “north” of T in the engraving.  The implication I get is simply:
If T is NOT north (above) X you have to find another verse to match this painting”
Obviously T an X are clues to Verse 3’s hunt but it’s also trying to tell the Cleveland hunter who is lucky enough to get close with the painting alone to match a different verse to the painting.
JUST A POSSIBILTY!

If Thucydides is north
Of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
I’m not sure that I can clearly articulate this. Bear with me…
In mathematical terms, “is” would be =.  Therefore it would read, If T=N. There is no “direction” associated with X. “In the area of
his
direction”…”his” is  a possessive. Only one person in this verse
has
a direction-Thucydides. In addition “of xenophon” is a prepositional phrase. Therefore, I think the “his” has to be referring to Thucydides.

FollowTheWay

Maybe this will stir up some new ideas – take it or leave it.
“A green tower of lights
In the middle section”
Seems there are two main schools of thought on these lines. The “green tower of lights” refers to either Fenway Park or the Hancock Tower.
I was never a huge fan of the Fenway theory, but the Hancock theory seems far more outlandish. For a hunter to know that the Hancock is said “green tower of lights,” he/she would have to be out searching at night. I’m pretty confident Preiss wasn’t aiming for this. Any other theories floating around out there?

There’s several that have been thought of/mentioned:
fenway
the hancock
the green building at MIT
a random green lamppost
the old elevated 93 was a green structure towering over the city and the lights would be the cars on it
the tower on the old south church that lights up green at night
the green steeple tower thing at simmons college near the fens
the lombard lamppost on the comm ave mall near kenmore square
surely more…

It seems to me that whatever Preiss was referring to either had to be lit up during the daytime, or at least appear to be lit.
I thought the old elevated 93 might be the answer for a while as well since it was referred to as the “other green monster” given how much traffic was constantly present. However, daytime running lights on vehicles didn’t exist back in 1982.

FollowTheWay

It seems to me that whatever Preiss was referring to either had to be lit up during the daytime, or at least appear to be lit.
I thought the old elevated 93 might be the answer for a while as well since it was referred to as the “other green monster” given how much traffic was constantly present. However, daytime running lights on vehicles didn’t exist back in 1982.

That’s why things that hold lights may be better….such as fenway, such as a lamppost. they do not have to be lit for one to know that it is a green tower, consisting of lights.

I have often thought the green tower of lights may refer to the statue of liberty. Possible mismatch of puzzle and verse.

shecrab

Interestingly enough, Logan Airport does not have the usual type of Control Tower–it has an H-shaped structure that is not very tower-like, and not green.

I had not thought about Logan not having a “traditional” tower.  I drive past the Albany airport everyday on my route to work and yesterday the control tower looked so soiltary and “tower like” against the cloudless sky that it just SCREAMED of “tower.”  [by the way the top of it happens to be green…  but it is also over 100 miles away from where we are looking.]  Like I said in my previous post though I’m trying to throw out images of “type” rather than fitting the full definition, then we can rule out the definite nos and try to fit the possibilities into a narrower search.
I can’t believe that I left an “obvious” tower off the list which is lighthouse.  I grew up in a fishing town and so loved the lighthouses.  Boston has only one that I am aware of and it is white.
Also, although I wrote “control tower” on my list I don’t think the casque is near Logan [although hangers come to mind as “metal walls”] as I doubt there is a convenient enough area BP could have gone to bury one near Logan [Look at Google Earth you’ll see what I mean].
As Boogie pointed out “it first has to be green.”  True enough.  However my line of thought is “there’s more things that are green than things that are towers so let’s find towers and knock off the list all of them that aren’t green.”  ALSO: What if the tower in question is something that was green in 1981 and isn’t now?
I keep thinking green MAY be “ivy or moss covered.”  Does anyone know anything about removing ivy from a building?  I DO know that ivy is supposed to be bad for buildings, but I also THINK that removing ivy can cause worse problems once it’s already grown there.  As I’m anything but an expert in this area I pose the question for someone who may know better:  Is ivy ever removed from old buildings such as the historic buildings of Boston in renovation or restoration efforts?  I’m asking more if it’s done in general than “has it been done in Boston”  However that second question pertaining to Boston in particular is probably more helpful.
Also:
If something was painted green it could be painted a different color now.
I seem to think this next one has been stated before but lightS is plural.  I posted a link to a flickr photo the other day of a church steeple, which shows light coming out of it but the image showed “light” not “lightS.”  The plural keeps bringing “one if by land, two if by see” to mind.  In keeping with my above question:  Does the Old North Church or did it ever have ivy?  Could it in any way be considered “green?”  I think not, but as that is where two lightS were placed as the signal to Revere and he keeps being brought up I have to ask even though I think the answer is no.

Also keep in mind that this
is
a riddle, and BP has been mischievous before (pass the compass, cast in copper, etc.). Perhaps it is a play on words. Maybe a building whose
name
has something to do with “light” or “green” if you think outside the box, the same way North Point Lighthouse had something to do with compasses (which “point north”).

That’s why I suggested something NAMED “tower” that isn’t a tower.  And as Shecrab already stated there is a tower called “the green building” at MIT.
Perhaps lights are pointed AT the “tower” not coming from the tower??
BP certainly had some fun here.

shecrab

Are you trying to say that “old tower” is an ancient truck with a hook and chain for pulling cars?

SHECRAB:
I LOVE your idea.  Don’t towers normally have yellow lights, they do around here.  Maybe we’re looking for one with green lights???  Hahaha.  You just MADE my morning.
Well, as I’ve been on my way to and from work lately I’ve been looking for “types of buildings” that could fit “tower” OR “metal walls” going for “general type of building” rather than specific to the hunt as a brainstorming technique.  As I drove past one particular structure the Hardy Boys just hit me and so I didn’t want to take credit for this other than as a connect the dots.  And to farther credit where credit is due my current brainstorming mode started because of bclews comment about us all looking for something we might not see during the day.  We obviously need to think differently:
So:
Hardy Boys — They were using a clue that reffered to “old tower” and ASSUMED it meant the mansion which had at one time an addition put on it, so there was both an old and new tower.  They can never find what they are looking until they happened to be accross town at the railroad station and noticed two water towers…  One new and one old.  Their treasure ended up being inside the old water tower.
Although I don’t believe OUR search is for a water tower I will say that most of the water towers around here are Green and made of metal. [which could refer to “metal walls” and the ones that are near the airport all have lights on top.
So what lesson do we get from this?  So far no one has made any clear assumptions of knowing the tower BP is reffering to.  But I think we need to modify our search parameters and not assume it is a particular building YET  Too many ideas have been suggested with so far nothing concreete leeping out.  Think about the following question:  What TYPES of ITEMS [note I did not say buildings] could be considered poetically to be a TOWER?  Here is the list I have from my brainstorming session the past few days.  Note, I am not holding back on things that “might not be in Boston.”  Anyone else’s answers:  Bonus points for something that is Green, is a tower AND has lights.  Most of mine don’t fit all three on first glance.
— Skyscraper
— Water Tower
— Silo
— Observation Tower [such as at an airport]
— Really Tall Tree [The only tall tree in a park, or REALLY tall tree amongst smaller ones, or as already suggested by someone else: X-MAS Tree]
— Lamp Post
— Church Steeple
— Smokestack
— Stadium Lights [Also the big lighting towers at the end of a runway]
— A Monument
— Some bridges, especially drawbridges, can appear “tower like”
— Something NAMED Tower that might not be.  Tower Records comes to mind.  Any other “Tower” places that aren’t VISUALLY a “tower” in design that anyone is a where of??

belfry, castle, citadel, cloud buster, column, fort, fortification, fortress, high rise, keep, lookout, mast, minaret, monolith, obelisk, pillar, refuge, skyscraper, spire, steeple, stronghold, turret
cover, den, harbor, haven, hideaway, hideout, hole, ivory tower, port, preserve, refuge, retreat, safe house, safety, sanctuary, security, shelter
alcazar, chateau, citadel, donjon, fasthold, fastness, fort, fortification, fortress, hold, keep, manor, mansion, palace, peel, safehold, seat, stronghold, tower, villa
All synonyms for TOWER from a thesaurus. I was somewhat surprised at the middle group–which defined tower as “refuge”. Especially since “hole” was to my way of thinking the antonym for “tower.” And I don’t think BP got that esoteric in defining tower.
Interestingly enough, Logan Airport does not have the usual type of Control Tower–it has an H-shaped structure that is not very tower-like, and not green.
But here’s another thought: a ‘tower of lights’ could mean the type of light tower that is found on a drag raceway–that’s what it’s called–a “tower”. The lights descend from red to green to count down the beginning of the race. Is there a raceway of some kind near Boston’s North End? I doubt there’s one in the Back Bay area; besides the Marathon, I mean–which to my knowledge, does not have a tower of any kind to start it.
But is there another race-car track nearby? One that might have a “tower” to signal the beginning of the races? This might also be considered the “coliseum” and “with metal walls” could also apply to either the wall around the race course or the cars themselves.

bclews

what’s that tower of green lights on the left?!  “That’s got to be it”, I’m thinking.  We’ve been looking during the daytime and it needs to be night to see the lights.

Have you ever read the first Hardy Boys book, “The Tower Treasure”?  They were looking in the wrong place much of the novel based on a clue of “in the old tower.”  Not going to spoil the ending but they had the wrong “old tower.”  Good analogy for what we’re thinking about right now.  If you’ve read that book think about the line I’m drawing with this.  I don’t want to post a potential spoiler of the book in case anyone here like me enjoys reading those classics and has missed it.  The real meaning of “old tower” may just be a thought process to use with this?
Someone tell me some protocol on trying to be more clear here.  It feels inappropriate to spoil a book someone else might read, but it also feels like I’m holding back something by not speaking my mind.
–Ringo

Let it rip!  It would only spoil it if the casque is found.  Otherwise, nobody will remember it forever.  Let’s get our priorities in check.

Whether the tower is a silo or a control tower, I think that first it has to be green, and then add the lights, which can be many colors.
The race track tower has such diffrerent colors of lights.  As would a traffic light.  I read the verse to mean that the tower itself is green.  The lights can be green, white, red, blue and so on.  Just like a christmas tree.  But I doubt BP would have a clue that only shows itself in December.

If this were a Hardy Boys forum, I might object, but it ain’t so let’s hear it!

Are you trying to say that “old tower” is an ancient truck with a hook and chain for pulling cars?

there are also “Conning Towers” on battleships, not sure if there is one on the cassin young at the Boston Navy Yard.
here is the USS Yorktownone from Charlestowne, SC
http://flickr.com/photos/photorolandi/1448812344/
what are you all leaning more toward about our oval in the image, a porthole or an observatory?
just for laughs, every time i google earth boston, i see “The Secret is in the Sauce” over by little Italy, lol

In truth be free,
Has me thinking of a newspaper box.  Here in Eugene there are several news boxes lit by lamplight with free press, local community news, student papers, etc.

I agree with Pine, it’s too coincidental that this exists at the BPL to be a red herring.
Frankly, I like the look of copely square as a possible hiding place (photo 11).
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
Yeah, I assumed you had seen the statue because one of the links from this bulletin board was to somebody’s travel photos, which is where I saw the Horace Mann statue (I’ve actually not seen it in person).  The statue is near the entrance to the Statehouse.  Here’s the link to the picture:
http://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston … g_1007.jpg
And to the person’s photo page again:
http://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston2004/Jul-03.aspV
The statue is pointing in a direction, so it would be neat to see where ol’ Horace is pointing.  The Statehouse is on a hill and looks out over Boston Common, so Horace is probably pointing some direction over the Common.  I’m going to be out of town for the weekend, though, so I can’t go exploring until next week.
I don’t know if the Horace Mann connection is going to be fruitful in the end.  It’s pretty obscure… But I do think it’s worth looking into.  Grr, I wish I had time to go looking!  AmyMisha, if you go to the Esplanade this weekend, you might think about taking a little swing over to the Common and the Statehouse.

Sure thing! I’ll probably be going tomorrow afternoon. I’ll swing by the State House and check out Horace.
Amy

Unknown

Unknown:
I agree with Pine, it’s too coincidental that this exists at the BPL to be a red herring.
Frankly, I like the look of copely square as a possible hiding place (photo 11).
wilhouse

Well, I’m dubious, because Copley is an extremely public place.  I don’t think someone would ever be given the go-ahead to dig there.  Hundreds of people pass through the area every hour.  There are no secluded corners, either.  It’s just one big block of grass.
Pine, you do know that there’s a Horace Mann statue in front of the Statehouse, right?

Wow.  No, I didn’t know that.  I have to come to Boston for work occasionally (actually stayed at the Westin Copley in your pics last time), but have never been to the Statehouse area.
That statue could be very important.
Maybe an alternate starting point?  Gotta study my maps tomorrow.
By the way, I’m under the impression that Preiss planted all of the casques clandestinely, rather than getting permission of any kind — shovel at dusk in the hidden part of the park, that sort of thing.  That being said, Copley Square is hugely public, fairly small, and not at all secluded, so it feels wrong to me.
Pine

well, I could only tell by looking at one picture. there would have to be some place secluded to hide it.
Yes, I agree that he did this mostly without permission.  If he did hide the casque in the zoo in Houston, he didn’t get anyone’s permission that they know of.
He would have probably used a secluded or hidden area. But understand, there’s no reason to think he did this during the day. He could come by late at night, a couple of shovels full of dirt, drop the box, cover it up and run.  15 minutes is all you’d need.
wilhouse

Unknown

Unknown:
Wow.  No, I didn’t know that.  I have to come to Boston for work occasionally (actually stayed at the Westin Copley in your pics last time), but have never been to the Statehouse area.
That statue could be very important.
Maybe an alternate starting point?  Gotta study my maps tomorrow.
By the way, I’m under the impression that Preiss planted all of the casques clandestinely, rather than getting permission of any kind — shovel at dusk in the hidden part of the park, that sort of thing.  That being said, Copley Square is hugely public, fairly small, and not at all secluded, so it feels wrong to me.
Pine

Yeah, I assumed you had seen the statue because one of the links from this bulletin board was to somebody’s travel photos, which is where I saw the Horace Mann statue (I’ve actually not seen it in person).  The statue is near the entrance to the Statehouse.  Here’s the link to the picture:
http://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston … g_1007.jpg
And to the person’s photo page again:
http://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston2004/Jul-03.aspV
The statue is pointing in a direction, so it would be neat to see where ol’ Horace is pointing.  The Statehouse is on a hill and looks out over Boston Common, so Horace is probably pointing some direction over the Common.  I’m going to be out of town for the weekend, though, so I can’t go exploring until next week.
I don’t know if the Horace Mann connection is going to be fruitful in the end.  It’s pretty obscure… But I do think it’s worth looking into.  Grr, I wish I had time to go looking!  AmyMisha, if you go to the Esplanade this weekend, you might think about taking a little swing over to the Common and the Statehouse.

jsp

A bit late to answer this, sorry, but: I live in Boston. I’ve stood at the front of the Public Library holding a compass and I can tell you that Thucidydes’ name is not north of Xenophon’s. I think it’s the reverse, actually.

Wow that confuses things a bit. I think we need visual confirmation.

A bit late to answer this, sorry, but: I live in Boston. I’ve stood at the front of the Public Library holding a compass and I can tell you that Thucidydes’ name is not north of Xenophon’s. I think it’s the reverse, actually.

Spiritr

He is VERY good at math, and so is Alex Jay

BP could very well be good at math, he was a brilliant guy, however there does not appear to be much of any math involved in these puzzles. However, I would argue that someone that is “good at math” would never provide a clue of “Walk 100 paces”. Not only are there too many variables, the natural reaction for your average person hunting is to count their own strides introducing error into the measurement. The only way I see this working is if there was a sign in the park that stated something was 250 feet away.

Spiritr

looks like image 3

Even more resemblance if you combine both images.

oops, I posted in the wrong thread…

Many similarities.
And freemasons!

Spiritr

oops, I posted in the wrong thread…

Spirit, where did you find that drawing?

Here’s a thought…
I was noodling around on Image 11, and came up with a site that had an interesting building, the Grain Exchange building (next to Faneuil Hall). The building had a passing resemblance to our box castle in Image 11, and it also had some elements of that image in the facade. When I looked into the building, I discovered it was designed by H. H. Richardson, so I googled him–and discovered that he
also designed Trinity Church
…where we have been looking. Many of the elements in the image are associated with Trinity, including the box castle, and the checkerboard images…and the collar images…So I googled the church again–and something jumped out at me.  This:
Note the arrows. Not only do they repeat elements of Image 11–the round window, the checkerboard pattern on the dress, the collar designs (see the courtyard blocks!–I got excited when I saw that!)  but also they echo some of the verse elements: notably,
your back to the stairs.
Could THESE be the stairs? There look like plenty of places to bury a casque, and with other elements present, perhaps THIS is the area we’re supposed to be in, not in the BPL–which is of course, right across the way from Trinity Church.  The “middle section” could mean the middle section of that courtyard–where there appears to be plants and trees.
I don’t know what’s across the courtyard from the stairs, but there would be really only ONE way to “face the water and keep your back to the stairs” if that was the ocean or the river he refers to–but perhaps there is a fountain there as well so that might be the water you could face?
This location might solve all our problems: Not only can it be located by using Xenophon and Thucydides on the library freize,it keeps us in Copley Square, where most people thought the verse led to, AND it satisfies a lot of the elements in the image.
What do you all think?

I think the idea has merit, but I doubt he would bury it *right next* to the church — too risky. Perhaps somewhere between it and the fountain.

Well, yes, that’s what I meant. At some distance, but with your back to the stairs, you can see quite a bit of the enclosed gardens there.

but then what P?
one goes to charleston, and on to salt lake city!  and new orleans!  what now?

bclews

First, if the line “Lit by lamplight” is a reference to the Old North Church shouldn’t it say “Lit by lantern light”?

A line from Longfellow:
A second lamp in the belfry burns.

Having been to the area I am still not convinced that Boston has a casque.
First, if the line “Lit by lamplight” is a reference to the Old North Church shouldn’t it say “Lit by lantern light”?
Also, Revere’s ride was at midnight, which would be described as either “0 hour” or the “24th hour”.  The “twelfth hour” would seem to indicate noon.
Of course, I could be completely wrong….

It is my opinion that the last four lines of this V are most obvious.
http://poetry.eserver.org/paul-revere.html
or, according to one entry in wikipedia…could we be looking for sunset?
“In ancient and medieval cultures, in which the division between night and day mattered far more than in societies with widespread use of artificial light, the counting of hours started with sunrise. So sunrise was always exactly at the beginning of the first hour, noon at the end of the sixth hour and sunset exactly at the end of the twelfth hour.”
I am still sold on Boston for this V though.

I guess it is easier said in hindsight, but the Cleveland solve seemed to pinpoint the spot (using the verse only, I might add) out of necessity. The location was more-or-less in a planter, and BP couldn’t have us digging the whole thing up. Chicago, on the other hand, was not at all precise in defining the dig location with either the verse or the image. There was a bit of trial and error needed, but you were pretty much led to within several feet of the spot by correctly interpreting the verse only.
Based on this, the only similarity is you do not need the image, but it will help confirm the path. As far as the exact dig spot, we have 2 different solves – 1) and exact spot; and 2) you are put in a place where there is only a few possibilities. This leads me to believe that either each solve will be different in pinpointing the location, or each solve will fall under one of those categories (exact spot, or close to exact spot with few possibilities).
For Boston, I think the spot it found through the latter method – you are led to a spot with few possibilities within a small area. I wanted it to be mothers rest, but I couldn’t make it fit or narrow it down to a sufficiently small location (other than under the lamp next to the wall of the bridge). With this, you are kind of in the same situation, except not only is the land available A LOT smaller, but the bottom left corner of the image is a match to where you would be when you “face the water.”
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Lit by lamplight
Similar to the steps/stairs play off each other in this verse, I think the duplication of lights – tower of lights (plural) and the lamplight (singular) calls out attention. RIGHT at the box is both of these. See the one-light lamp right next to the box like the one in the bottom right of the picture (same as those in 2C)?

how about counting stones again?
On the big circular section of the 2C count 18, then count 12 on the smaller circular section.  Perhaps those two stones connect a line to a spot over grass.
I’ll have to take a closer look later tonight to see if this has any chance of working.

It feels like I counted every stone in the city… don’t you remember when I was on that kick? Don’t waste your time. There haven’t been any solves where something did not make complete “analogical” sense (the analogies in the verse lines were pretty straightforward). Nothing in this verse means “count rocks.”

forest_blight

Are you sure Thucydides is north of Xenophon on the BPL? I seem to remember that was not true.

i was always interested in the nearby “virgil” (…and a virgil at mexico…). there’s a “newton” right at the seat of the statue below too.
I am not convinced that the interpretation of these lines is as straight forward as, “Where M and B are set in stone,” because of the injection of a directional relationship between the two objects (T is North of X). The direction seems to throw us off as T is actually Northwest of X.
For me, the thought of these lines representing BPL comes from additional evidence that 1) T
is
North (above) of X, even is is also to the left (West); 2) the nearby proximity of
Virgil
and
Newton
; 3) the order in which these lines appear in their respective verses is very similar; 4) the structure of these lines and use of capitalization is very similar; and 5) the interpretation of,
If T is North of X
, as reference to BPL is less ambiguous than, “
And to Congress, R is known
, referring to the Roosevelt University being on Congress Parkway nearby.
On top of this, we know that BP probably made it tricky to decide which verse to use with which image. The inclusion of
Pindar
in V4 not only helps confuse our efforts, but also narrows down the possibilities of usable verses. I would say that is a good type of clue if you are creating a puzzle that you don’t want to be easy, but that you also want to be solved. Interestingly, T and X also appear on
a stone at the Greek Cultural Gardens
, but on that stone, X is North of T.
Not only that, but BP said that some of the locations would be quickly found, while others may never be found (right?). There are a few verses and images we still think are tricky, but of them all, there are a few that we think are/were relatively simple to connect (now that we have Google), and Boston is one of those. So it’s easy to believe that finding Chicago first, which with using Google would have been relatively easy, would be followed by the also relatively easy Boston in discovery. It might not be coincidence that the verses could be connected through
Pindar
,
X
and
T
as the connection would be a form of leading and confusing.

There will, perhaps, be a Thucydides at Boston, a Xenophon at New York, and, in time, a Virgil at Mexico, and a Newton at Peru.
Is Boston north of New York? Yes it is.

fox

There will, perhaps, be a Thucydides at Boston, a Xenophon at New York, and, in time, a Virgil at Mexico, and a Newton at Peru.
Is Boston north of New York? Yes it is.

Indeed. And, what’s fun is that you don’t need the literary connection to solve the clue.

erexere

A green tower of lights
Tower: a person or thing which tows.  How about the Green Line Trolley?  It hauls commuters.  I read that the line is locally referred to as the “T”.  Maybe this ties into the Thucydides line.
“..of lights” could mean “of electricity”, which is what a trolley would use as a power source.  Perhaps we’re suppose to catch the Trolley at the stop in front of the Trinity church directly north of the BPL.

Trolley… hmmn… interesting. I’ve just been looking for a Hulk connection.

A green tower of lights
Tower: a person or thing which tows.  How about the Green Line Trolley?  It hauls commuters.  I read that the line is locally referred to as the “T”.  Maybe this ties into the Thucydides line.
“..of lights” could mean “of electricity”, which is what a trolley would use as a power source.  Perhaps we’re suppose to catch the Trolley at the stop in front of the Trinity church directly north of the BPL.

Please consider this theory:
1.  Start at Thucydides.  His name is carved on the front of the Boston Public Library with lots of other “men of letters” (a la fox’s 5/8 posting).  You’re standing on Dartmouth St. at Copley Square.
2.  Go 5 blocks (“five steps”) north (“…Thucydides is North”…”In the area of his direction”).  Count just the real named streets and ignore the tiny alleys in between and one glorified median.
3.  Now you’re very looking at Storrow Drive, which runs along the Charles River.  Just beyond Storrow is the Charles River Esplanade (“Face the water”).
4.  Just downriver on the Esplanade is the Hatch Shell (“Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls”).  It’s like a shell-shaped bandstand or theater with a steel skin, built in 1941.  I’m not sure if we’re supposed to focus on the shell itself, or just being close to Storrow Drive (“Near those who pass…”
).
5.  Either way, the water’s just north of you (“Face the water”) and the river’s lower than the land, so there’s gotta be stairs around (“Your back to the stairs”).
6.  AOL CityGuide says the Shell “features big bronze letters across the lower front and back spelling out the names of dozens of the world’s foremost composers…”, so maybe this is related to (“All the letters Are here to see”).
7.  If the “green tower of lights” is either the Pru or John Hancock, then maybe you can see one or both.  Heck, when you were at the library you were literally standing right between them.
Thoughts?

Not that it matters a whole lot, but I didn’t mean to put the frowny face in, or to bold that text.  I just typed 3 question marks to indicate uncertainty.  Inexperience with this stuff.
Sorted, you just tick the Disable Smilies box. Mark

Maybe you stand on the ledge opposite the stairs and face the water, but if you turn to the right you’ll see the green tower of lights pole intersecting the middle of the intersecting S’s, or “section symbol”. That spot could be why there’s a small feather (looks like a crack) in the top of the stone circle in image 11. The feather indicates that is where the falcon was standing and using his keen vision. That line of sight also intersect with the spot that’s approx 5 steps from the inside of the metal walled fencing.

…that never looked like a fun place to dig. Those heavy shrubs have probably grooted up that ground really well.

I do not at all subscribe to the Charlesgate theory. That is all.

It is not technically in Boston, but yes, to someone not from here they would habitually call it Boston.
I’ve been on the ground – the image discoveries were made in person by me, and were of the type mentioned by others – that ‘holy f’ moment when you see it. I have verified the castle match & also disproved similar structures (like Trinity Church) through physical trial and error. The very specific design of this building is what produces the exact image on Pandora’s Box. They also only line up & are 100% visible from a historic park with multiple monuments and sections, fitting the overall clue.
The other visual match I have is on the building next door to the towers. The other visual matches are one more building over, and may (may! the style is not entirely uncommon in this area) include the checker pattern, the triangular tiles, and the arch in the bottom right.
All of these locations border two locations strongly tied to the midnight ride, one of them literally being part of it, containing a plaque with the words “midnight on April 18-19.” this is not flawless, but is a FAR stronger connection than The Somerset.
The area with the quote is right there too, this is all on one block, all border the park.
I have been on the ground at every reasonably suggested location in Boston. Charlesgate is not it, there are absolutely 0 matching images – I walked the entire Comm Ave Mall from the Public Gardens. the basins that look like the globes are not the right shape. There are actually 4 lights there, not 3, so it doesn’t form the pattern of crystal balls in the picture. The Charlesgate building, or anything near by, does not come close to matching the turrets on the box. The S on The Somerset building doesn’t match at all. You cannot see the Citgo sign from the proposed location. Etc.
I was never a big believer in Trinity Church/Copley,despite the names on the library (too obvious?). Copley was never a good place to dig, it isn’t really a park, and is heavily foot trafficked all day. If it was there, it’s gone now anyway as th e entire area has been dug up twice.
I tried my own theory which was a park shaped similar to the Rose Garden near Mothers Rest. Able to match much of the verse, but no images at all, which I am positive are the keys – you can fit a verse almoste anywhere in any city, but finding Revere stuff in Boston makes this even tougher since its all over.
Nothing at Old North Church either – spent a few hours along the west & north ends. I strongly believe I have it narrowed down to 1-2 solid areas, with the potential for it to be nearby, but you lose the turrets, and I’m a believer in them being visible from the dig site.
My theories for ‘All the letters’ are a huge iconic sign that is visible in entirety also only from specific angles in the park. I think that finding the location where you can see both is important, though tree growth may mean we can only get so close. Feel at home, I have a few theories, one of which is a literal home plate for a softball field. Not positive what the turrets look like from there, not that it needs to be directly adjacent.
I’ve got nothing on T&X, green tower (well, I have a theory but it feels weaker than the rest), and think “in truth be free” may have a dual meaning, as there are things related to G Washington & Lincoln on the grounds, both of whom are known for bringing freedom and being honest.
On the ground again tomorrow. Handily, it’s .7 miles from my place of work
Edit: there are no stairs in the park from what I can tell, though only one building that borders it has stairs – the same building I think -may- be the green tower, but I don’t know how much of a tower it is. There is another possibility, but I need to go at night,
Water is near enough that it doesn’t bother me, the colesium is under a mile away & the water is closer than that. The Charles is big enough to be the water. It’s just a directional orientation, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are looking at water. Facing it also puts your back to my poorly thought out green tower: the only nearby building with stairs.

I’m in San Francisco for the weekend and decided to do some hunting and found a plaque on the Asian museum in un plaza with both xenophon and thucydides on the side of the building….im heading back up there later today to check out the area again.i took a picture of the plaque but it’s too big of a file to post here

The bank is definitely on a slope but I wouldn’t call it very steep. I don’t know how deep the water is.

There’s a cement slab and light post on either side of the spot.  I think if the mud was as problematic as you say those things would’ve sunk or floated away by now, taking the casque with them.  There’s got to be a good 8-10 feet from the walkway to the flagstone edged waterway.
It’s totally cool to reject my interpretation, and thanks to anyone who’s got the balls to share their own fully formed theory, sane or demented.  Don’t reject a dig location unless you’re prepared to poke it with a stick.
It’s about time people start walking around with a utility probe.  I’m going to buy a couple.  I’ll be happy to ship one to someone if they want, otherwise I’ll be dual-wielding next time I have a chance to get close to a location.

Look, I think you’re doing a lot of good work here and coming up with a lot of good ideas but this is exactly what I’m talking about. I’ve been there. I’ve been there more than once. I’ve stood on the other side of the fence from where you drew the arrow. I’m trying to tell you that if you were actually standing on the spot – which two people, including myself, have done – it would immediately become clear why the casque is not buried there. It may not be clear from looking at it on Google Maps but it is very, very clear if you’re standing there and looking at it.
It’s mud. A huge slab of concrete would not float away. A light post, and its concrete base, would not float away. But the mud in question is not stable, it’s not a terrain you could bury something in and still expect it to be there the way you could with dirt. I would happily make a not insignificant wager that Preiss never buried a casque in that spot, but if for some reason he temporarily took leave of his senses and did so, it’s long gone.

Unknown

Unknown:
Way back when (September), Egbert said, “The Chicago casque was found by 2 young stockbrokers, who lived in Chicago, and had recognized some of the sites and verse references right away. However, at the time, there was some type of renovation occurring, in which a large marble or concrete object had been placed over the burial site. So, they took a picture of it, and sent it to B.Preiss, who acknowledged that as soon as the renovation was finished, the treasure was theirs. He doesn’t recall meeting them, doesn’t have a copy of any newspaper article, but does recall that an article was run in one of the major Chicago newspapers at the time.”

I’m very curious about spot, because the fact that it’s been observed as muddy doesn’t mean its always been muddy.  If there’s any grass at all, then that’s a sign that the turf has some stability.  It might get soaked, it might have worms and rodent crap in it, but that isn’t enough to rule out a spot.  Preiss buried some casques knowing they might be lost to construction or other factors.  If I recall, he said “covered by a cement slab”, maybe this is just a case where the feel of the spot has changed to the degree that it’s only natural we have doubts.
Something about this spot draws me in.  I’m sorry to bother you with my persistent belief, and I appreciate you’re candid feedback.
Ah, found it,
So Preiss sent them the jewel after the renovations and a photo of where he buried it.  They were able to work off the photo and find the casque after.

This forum blocks my work IP from logging in or posting, which is what’s kept me from posting my theory. But here goes, because I grow weary of the “maybe face the water means face h2o which means face hydrogen since the are more Hs in water than Os, so maybe face the water means to face the sun where there is lots of hydrogen” types.
The cask is near or in the Cambridge Common, a park that borders Harvard Yard, and sits adjacent to Harvard Law School. I currently have 3 strong visual matches in the park to the painting, and a huge section of the verse fits with absolutely no twisting and turning, and one of them fits so well (and in line with the solved puzzles) that I consider it very very strong. Here is the area we’re working with:
http://goo.gl/maps/eVGBV
The first visual clue I matched was the “4” on the woman’s sleeve, which I had never considered a visual clue until I saw it. Now, it seems somewhat obvious, as the 4 is visually distinct from everything else in the painting, being made of straight lines and having texture. I observed the “1” and the “2” from the road and immediately knew it was the correct style. I went looking for the 4 and found it easily. It is on a building which borders the park to the East side, known as Hastings House. It’s unlabeled on the above link, but I’ll be providing a tagged map below.
Image:
http://i.imgur.com/Wb7aSJk.jpg
The second visual clue are visual matches that are key architectural elements in Richardson Romanesque architecture, as anyone familiar with Trinity Church has seen before. They are found on Austin House, the oldest building in the USA built for a law school. It also borders the park to the East, and is adjacent to Hastings House. This building contains 3 separate elements from the painting – 1) The checkerboard pattern viewed on the | | behind the woman, 2) The triangular pattern on the same pieces, 3) The arch seen below the globe on the bottom right.
Images:
http://i.imgur.com/MWwSvKN.jpg
&
http://i.imgur.com/jrQvgiF.jpg
The final visual clue is the turrets. Yes, those turrets, the ones on the box held by the woman. I believe they, like the Chicago Tower, are hidden in the image of a castle with ramparts. They appear to be “any” two turrets, in a city full of them. However, they actually are quite unique. The shape of the turret doesn’t match turreted roofs. They are at different heights and different sizes, something that isn’t possible to achieve with two parallel turrets (as seen on The Charlesgate, for example). The perspective is *key* to this picture.
The turrets are a perfect match to the turrets as seen on the Harvard Epworth Memorial Church, a building adjacent to the park from the East, and (stop me if you’ve heard this before) adjacent to Hastings House to the north. The turrets are designed differently than others around the city, and the view on the box can
only
be perfectly re-created while standing in the Cambridge Common (Example
http://i.imgur.com/Zt5RkCp.jpg
). Any other view of the turrets does not work, due to the specific way these are designed. The turret closest to the common is
bigger
than the other 3, which leads to the perspective seen in the image. Looking at the turrets from any other angle, or from the wrong location in the park yields a completely different image.  (Example of wrong view:
http://i.imgur.com/KsMUxhj.jpg
) (ANOTHER wrong view:
http://i.imgur.com/jmJuuSm.jpg
)
Bordering the park (a bit further, it’s actually bordering Dawes Island Park [formally Flagstaff Park]) to the Southeast is the Harvard Yard 1881 gate, which on it contains the quote: “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make ye free” written out in full text.
http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k93345&pageid=icb.page572577
Also bordering the park, directly to the South of the entrance gate, is a traffic island known as Dawes Island. William Dawes is the 2nd rider, often forgotten (thanks mostly to Longfellow’s poem) on the midnight ride. He rode directly past/through the Common and down JFK St, passing what is now Harvard Stadium. There is a plaque on Dawes Island that contains the words “on midnight April 18-19” as well as gold hoofprints on the ground showing his actual path.
Images of everything:
http://www.wmdawes.org/dawesisland.html
On the Northeast corner of the park, there is an iconic sign on top of the Sheraton Hotel. It reads “SHERATON COMMANDER” (
http://i.imgur.com/lYRNR5p.jpg
). It too can be seen from Cambridge Common, and there are very specific locations where you can see both the sign and the church turrets. Tree cover has changed in 30 years, so you have to imagine it in autumn, but the letters are huge & iconic in the neighborhood.
Finally, I have wondered aloud why you need to “face the water” – digging is directonless. It doesn’t matter if you face the water to dig or not, there is no reason to have a facing direction without movement. I do believe exerere is correct, the water involved is not actually water.
The street that borders Cambridge Common to the north is called Waterhouse Street. Face the water. Feel at home. Facing Waterhouse St is the
only
way to see the Sheraton Commander sign as well as the Harvard Epworth church. Any other direction, you won’t see both, and certainly not all the letters.
Missing pieces:
Thucydides and Xenophon. At this point I’m desperately trying to call the two statues in the park this, but I’ve got nothing concrete.
Green tower of lights: I have confirmed that the lighting on the Common is not the same as it was in the 1970s. Directly in the middle on Waterhouse St is the Church of Christ Scientist building, with a big green roof. I personally am not comfortable calling this a “green tower of lights,” but it very well might be. It’s also very likely that the common has changed quite a bit and any green towers of lights are simply gone.
Everything else fits. The entire site is well under a mile from Harvard Stadium, a very clear Colosseum, that has been literally described in literature as having metal walls. There are no big stretches here, and as you can see on the map below, a
lot
of clues. So there you go, it’s in Cambridge Common. Someone come help me find the exact spot & dig it up.
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit? … QsnEm98vQI

erexere

I’m very curious about spot, because the fact that it’s been observed as muddy doesn’t mean its always been muddy.

LMAO it’s literally called “Muddy River”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muddy_River_(Massachusetts
)

Face the water
I feel like this is less about looking in water’s direction and more about being in a spot where you have to worry about getting wet.
Is the bank very steep and would you consider it dangerous?  I don’t see a sweeping current.  Is it even more than waste deep?

Unknown

Unknown:
very clear Colosseum, that has been literally described in literature as having metal walls.

For reference, where is Harvard Stadium referred to as having metal walls?

I like the 1881 Brooks Gate as the source of “In truth, be free.” Also, the filigree on the gate resembles some of the viny elements of P11.
And I like the 4 (although I favor the theory that the 4 coupled with the immediately adjacent 2 is a reference to latitude 42).
But I’m just not seeing the resemblance between the church’s turrets and the castle on the box.
Also, can you help me understand why the Sheraton Commander is important?

The Turrets are the same shape as the ones on the box, and the same size. They have the same ‘mushroom cap’ design. They are in the same position & are in proportion, only from the middle section of the park. Ignore the ramparts, it’s not a real castle.
If you look at similar buildings the turrets never align like that. Either they are the same height, or due to the distance, the taller one shrinks to be the same size. The single larger turret on the Epworth keeps it larger. I’ve looked at almost every notable (and many not) turrets in the city.
none
of them look like that.
I have no idea why anyone thinks the 42 can’t also be there, like there’s a rule about it. I agree with you, and it’s likely serving a dual purpose, otherwise why make it so visually distinct?
The Sheraton Commander sign is, of course, all the letters that are here to see
from the same spot the turrets align on the park, if you face Waterhouse St you can see the sign to the left, the turrets to the right.
The green roof is dead center between the two, but I’m not calling that anything as of yet,.
Edit: The Stadium is called that in a Nov-Dec 1980 issue of Harvard Magazine, in an article titled ‘Charlesbank Harvard: Radical Innovation, Architectural Masterwork’ – unfortunately I don’t have the full text at the moment.

One if by and two if by sea. What if the letters are hear to see really is a play on the lantern light message? The Somerset man-o-war would represent a two lantern signal. The letters are lanterns. We need to see two lanterns, that is all. Seems to me there’s some arrangement where the bubbles or orbs in the painting could fit some lamp configuration at Charlesgate. It helps that the lamps could easily symbolize the letter “i”. By now, the locals have exhausted all of the possible perspectives, but I’ve not seen anyone present a solid visual comparison to suggest this is the case.
Anyone have any good on the ground visuals that really fit what we see in the image?

If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
I’m still trying to quit posting.  It’s a tough habit to break.
I say Thucydides = historical time frame X,
then Xenophon = historical time frame Y because it follows X given that Xenophon’s recording of history followed that of Thucydides.
I believe there is little to do with a “trail” from BPL around the park and then to the casque site.  I think this is largely a process of find the right site and then read the verse.  In the location in front of the gates of Somerset we find ourselves standing at the base of the stairs of the smaller circular space.  Realize the two historical frames of reference to be found,
X = his direction, Leiv Eriksson, 500 years before Columbus, c. 999
Y = 18th day, 12th hour, Paul Revere, 1775
X is north of Y, Leiv Eriksson is north of the Somerset.

wow, BINGO you’re rich !

I have to point out a lot of similarities between those lions and her head:
Unusually large bulges around her eyes
Straight nose
Cheekbones
Smile
Mane/hair line

new probe spot…
https://www.redfin.com/OK/Tulsa/721-N-X … e/78942506

BINGO

Time for the serial theorist to come up with a new randomly chosen spot to target…

Serious question… How are the serial theorist and their randomly chosen spots any different from the old timers (or whatever you would call the opposite end of the spectrum)?

The difference is they beat the same dead horse over and over and over and …
I don’t think the label “random” is fair since any location I suggest can be described by the verse.

Choice

The difference is they beat the same dead horse over and over and over and …
I don’t think the label “random” is fair since any location I suggest can be described by the verse.

That and the random spot (i.e., the thing they found in the image that they dig by) is the right random thing, unlike all you silly serial theorists who have proposed the wrong random thing. They know their random spot is correct, whereas you silly serial theorists can see that other random spots still exist and are equally as plausible. In that sense, some of you silly serial theorists have a leg up because one day you will realize that EVERY random spot is equally as plausible, realize how stupid it would be to try and solve the puzzle that way, and then try something new.
There is no end to places the verse can describe or the images and denote.

Now it’s “silly random”! I guess I’ll put you on the column of people with “giant opinion” here.

Choice

I have to point out a lot of similarities between those lions and her head:
Unusually large bulges around her eyes
Straight nose
Cheekbones
Smile
Mane/hair line

At least this isn’t that seriously awful comparison to the Columbus statue!!! This lion looks much more like her than good old Cristobal

Glossiphoniidae

That and the random spot (i.e., the thing they found in the image that they dig by) is the right random thing, unlike all you silly serial theorists who have proposed the wrong random thing. They know their random spot is correct, whereas you silly serial theorists can see that other random spots still exist and are equally as plausible. In that sense, some of you silly serial theorists have a leg up because one day you will realize that EVERY random spot is equally as plausible, realize how stupid it would be to try and solve the puzzle that way, and then try something new.
There is no end to places the verse can describe or the images and denote.

Couldn’t agree more.
If you take notice (see what I did there?), I don’t think I’ve ever made a claim or pointed to any specific spot where I think the casque is buried. Not because I am trying hide my “solution”, not because I don’t have theories, or dreams, or wishes. But, because I have learned a valuable lesson in this process. You simply can not trust anything but a logical solution that includes image and verse. I was guilty of believing in my own errors and the errors of other people. By doing that, it kept me stuck in the same place and forced me to reach further and further to justify why I was there. That just doesn’t work and it’s counterproductive.
If you have a spot that matches the image in wonderful ways, but the verse doesn’t apply or make sense, it’s probably wrong and you are reaching a bit too far with your image and/or verse assessments. There are endless places where the verse can be interpreted perfectly but have no good connection to the image. Equally as wrong and you are probably reaching for something there as well.
My personal definition of a serial theorist is someone who constantly throws random thoughts out in hopes that something might stick. (Quantity over quality) When nothing sticks, throw more shit out there. Or move on to another thread and restart the cycle. The people who approach this puzzle in this manner are probably the same people who think that buying 5 lottery tickets will actually improve their chances of hitting a Powerball Jackpot.

Choice

Now it’s “silly random”! I guess I’ll put you on the column of people with “giant opinion” here.

Do you think the puzzle is solvable based on opinion?
Say you have a perfectly reasonable solve down to the exact digspot based on your opinion of what a line or an image seems to be. And somebody else has different and also perfectly reasonable solve down to the exact digspot based on their opinion. And BP tells the other guys he’s right and gives him a jewel. And BP does the same thing for all 12 jewels.
Does that not boil down to BP saying pick a number between 1 and 100 (or however many plausible spots you think there are in a city, a city by the way that you guessed based on your opinion – see SLC or erexere’s place in Oregon or Churchhill downs or Washington DC), and then giving the casque to whomever guessed what he was thinking?
Do you think a publisher would accept a book like that? Guess what BP was thinking when he made the pictures and verses to solve the puzzle? Would you accept that?
People are proposing digistes when they cannot objectively state why the casques are even in the states they are in. They cannot objectively state which image and verses go together. They cannot objectively state why they are looking in a certain park. An they are proposing digspots, too?
Do you know any other puzzles that are subjectively solved? Sure you can think of something like a crossword puzzle (guess the word the phrase is describing), but even that has containers… there are rules… how many letters it can be.

BINGO

If you have a spot that matches the image in wonderful ways, but the verse doesn’t apply or make sense, it’s probably wrong…

Be careful.
Take note.
EDIT: To be clear, I am in no way saying the opposite is true either (i.e, If you have a spot that matches the verse in wonderful ways, but the image doesn’t apply or make sense, it’s probably wrong…)

Glossiphoniidae

Be careful.
Take note.
EDIT: To be clear, I am in no way saying the opposite is true either (i.e, If you have a spot that matches the verse in wonderful ways, but the image doesn’t apply or make sense, it’s probably wrong…)

Are we forming a Bromance right now?

BINGO, this is my one and only solve here. So you guys keep calling me “serial”.
When I come across a possible clue or image match I post it in hope that maybe someone can use it in their solve not to randomly pepper the thread with stuff see what sticks. Participation should be encouraged (I don’t need participation trophy).

Choice

When I come across a possible clue or image match I post it in hope that maybe someone can use it in their solve

The perpetuation of probably the worst thing to ever happen to this hunt… Find the thing, dig by it.

What does BP do when he get’s a call from the guy at FOY saying, “I’ve got people diggin’ the shit outta my park! This stops now or you’re gonna hear from my lawyers!”
A. Sorry y’all, I had to take the casque outta FOY, and it’s no longer up for grabs.
B. Just tell ’em it ain’t in FOY.

Oh please, the whole point of him doing this was to create publicity and buzz to sell more books and enrich himself. Maybe he should’ve thought of this then.

Choice

Oh please, the whole point of him doing this was to create publicity and buzz to sell more books and enrich himself. Maybe he should’ve thought of this then.

How can you make money and sell more books once people realize the solves are all opinion-based, or you start getting sued? Do you take a few years to design a puzzle like this? Does a publishing company endorse an idea like this, and front money for the jewel’s and paintings and casques? Does BP come out of pocket for those things hoping people guess the number he was thinking of?

Those were simpler times! I guess the plan was to publicize, have them solved quickly, make quick cash, nobody gets hurt.

Choice

Those were simpler times! I guess the plan was to publicize, have them solved quickly, make quick cash, nobody gets hurt.

“Too much time has passed…”
Even a crossword can always be solved, no matter the year it was created.

Yes, just have to wait another 40 yrs for transporter technology to be perfected then we can scan and beam them up.

You’re paraphrasing to occlude the homophone “to see” as “2 C”.

yes, i am.

I still would like to consider a possible break in the line “near those who pass” | “the coliseum”.
The Somerset ship was nearby as Paul and his mate passed by rowboat.

Only a casque could prove the site, but even a casque couldn’t tell us what BP was thinking. It’s a nice connection though.

WhiteRabbit

You’re trying to solve this verse at Mother’s Rest by imagining these things might have been there once, ignoring the fact that you can actually see them a short distance away.

I am trying to solve the verse at Mothers’ Rest by doing research about what the place contained at the time, not by imagination. I’ve asked for input and help many times, but the boards remained silent. I’ve asked for you to better explain your theory so I can better consider it, and you just keep going on about the 2Cs. How bout the 5 steps in his direction? Feeling at home? I’m tired of asking the same questions and getting no answers. How am I supposed to be persuaded (not that persuasion is what is important).
I’ve also
NOT
ignored the fact that 2Cs is close by (although, its not nearly as close as you pose and cannot be seen from the Mothers Rest location), and provided much input as to how it might work. Who pointed out that the Citgo sign is viewable from both MR and 2C?
The fact that you cannot name the place though, is significant to me. The fact that the place I’ve found is called Mothers Rest (named to complement the house on Revere Beach), is well known and historic, is in direct view of
ALL
the letters and has been for 70+ years… this is all quite consistent with the other solves and purposed solves.
The 2Cs only very slightly resemble the image you pasted. Are there other image confirmers in puzzles that resemble their real life counterparts to that slight of a degree? You’ve cut off a significant portion of the backwards S, which seems to be connected to another letter or two… even some numbers in that mess. You want the S to work so bad you call it “metal,” but it has leaves on it like a vine. Have you considered the AA that is on the brick opposite, and is a much more defined shaping than the Citgo sign? I can dismiss the Citgo sign very easily, as I’m sure you could also. Why aren’t we having conversations about these things, rather than just saying ‘you’re wrong’.
I’ve contacted people, I’ve gotten pictures, I discarded my own theories after investigation (remember the wall?). I am not afraid to be wrong. I am just tired of people getting so stuck in their own theories that they refuse to help construct others’ (as opposed to destruct). It defeats the purpose of sharing information, of this board.

Glossiphoniidae

The fact that you cannot name the place though, is significant to me. The fact that the place I’ve found is called Mothers Rest (named to complement the house on Revere Beach), is well known and historic.

Unknown

Unknown:
I’ve asked for you to better explain your theory so I can better consider it, and you just keep going on about the 2Cs. How bout the 5 steps in his direction?

Unknown

Unknown:
You want the S to work so bad you call it “metal,” but it has leaves on it like a vine.

Glossiphoniidae

I’ve asked for input and help many times, but the boards remained silent.

The equivalent placename to Mothers Rest is Charlesgate Park. There’s not much left of it though. I don’t know what this particular structure is called, just as you don’t know what the MR building was called, so I just carry on referring to it as the “2C”.
To suggest that I haven’t attempted to explain it beyond “going on about the 2Cs” just isn’t true. Didn’t you read the last couple of pages?
I’m not bothered about it, just throwing it out there. Doesn’t it look like metal to you?
Overall you’ve received quite a lot of suggestions and encouragement about Mothers Rest, but I don’t think people have anything else to add.
I’m still hoping you go to Boston sometime, because I doubt anyone else ever will.

Glossiphoniidae

Basing the whole theory around interpretation of the line meaning 2 Cs is rubbish.

There’s a bit more to it than that.
A green tower of lights
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
You’re trying to solve this verse at Mother’s Rest by imagining these things might have been there once, ignoring the fact that you can actually see them a short distance away.

It might be misleading to talk about a “trail”. Let’s just say the verse has a number of references. One of these is to the BPL at Copley Square. (“The Coliseum” was a large, well-known building in Copley Square. I think it’s likely that the verse is referring to this, rather than some sports stadium several miles away.)
Now, after Four21thrasher put us in the right area, Erexere made the excellent suggestion that the casque is at the 2C, based on evidence like this.
.
Perhaps the reversed metal “S” on the dress was inspired by the reversed metal “S” on the entrance gate to Somerset House opposite the 2C.
It also matches various lines in the verse as shown above. So we’ve got the library, and the 2C, at A and B. (Don’t be put off by the nomenclature – I’m not saying it looks exactly like two “C”s, that’s just what we’re calling it because we don’t know what else to call it.)
If you superimpose the final stretch of the Boston Marathon onto this map, it provides a rationale…
The original marathon ended at the Coliseum, and the Boston one ends at a place where there was also once a building called “The Coliseum”. We can surmise that “those who pass the coliseum” is a cryptic reference to marathon runners, and observe that the 2C is near the marathon route, thus fitting the line “near those who pass the coliseum”. This also hints at a method for finding it – the “green tower of lights” at the 2C can be seen towards the end of the route.
If you also consider the visual confirmers along this route…
…it starts to look pretty convincing IMHO.
The lines:
Feel at home
All the letters are here to see
…aren’t explained particularly well here, but I didn’t think “Feel at home” was very convincing for Mother’s Rest either.
They could be at the location, something we’ve seen, or something we’ve overlooked, something along the route, something more generally “Boston” – who knows. But there’s already plenty to go on and a specific place to dig.

Hello, all!  Totally new here.  Found this board last night after searching to see if anyone out there remembered an obscure book I had when I was a kid, called “The Secret.”
Had never given this serious thought before, so if I’m repeating what’s already been posted and have just missed it. I apologize.  I agree with the Boston/Esplanade thoughts totally.  Just a few thoughts and observations of my own.
“green tower of lights”: I agree Tobin Bridge, viewed from the Esplanade, the bridge is partially obscured by the Longfellow bridge, except for it’s two “towers”, which can be seen between the “towers” (I don’t know the proper word) of the Longfellow bridge.
“Feel at home”.  A hotel?  There are several nearby, one, The Liberty Hotel, is on Beacon Hill.  Perhaps a link between “Feel at home”, “Lit by lamplight”, and “in truth be free.”?
There’s also the Bull and Finch Pub (later renamed Cheers), which according to it’s website, always had a warm,, friendly, cozy atmosphere. It’s located on Beacon Street.  Maybe I’m reaching.
Could the lines in the verse refer to several different landmarks that could be used to sort of triangulate the location of the casque? Or, if painting 11 is the correct image, coulld the globes and the star be a map?  With the globes being the landmarks and the star being the casque location?
Again, new to this and unsure of how to look at the clues.

i talked to fox on this one too.  had the same idea about Middle section being middlesex, which is just north of downtown boston.  i’ll actually be out there may 19th thru the 23rd to visit a friend and do some looking around.  anyone have a starting place??  im thinking the Boston Commons and the freedom trail and take it from there.  Might drop by Revere’s house and check that out, also might go by North Point Park, i beleive its in Middlesex and near to Fenway (coliseum made of metal, or whatever the verse says)

Metal walls.
Oliver Cromwell was known as
Old Ironsides
.
Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote a poem called
Old Ironsides
.
Feel at home – Oliver Wendell Holmes…?
Possible tie-in with green/olive/olivine in the litany.
There’s an Oliver Wendell Holmes walk on Boston Common, and he has a memorial sundial on the esplanade.

Oh, I see now.  I like that line of thinking, WhiteRabbit.  Does it seem possible the word ‘green’ is only a clue for olives in this case?
Something I haven’t been able to confirm is how long or when 448 Beacon was owned or occupied by the Church of Scientology.

Peridot of old Italy
Antique and olivine and rich
“Olivine” jumped out as a weird word. Just brainstorming, as this Boston one is driving me nuts. Seems so close yet so far, with almost too many possible leads. One of the key questions is where it would be practical to bury a casque. Do people think Boston Common is feasible, for instance…? Do they think the esplanade is feasible…?
* * * * *
Although I was previously talking about five steps to Commonwealth Ave, having tried it in Google Street View, five north steps to Beacon St. seems more likely, as several of the roads that appear on the map are just alleys. Five proper roads gets you to Beacon St.

Same value in any thread you decide to post it in.
While the “vector” (one of your pet terms) is similar, you are still applying it to arbitrarily chosen locations. I can see why you could pick the Old North Church because of the potential verse connection. Why the “choice” of the BPL/Trinity Church/Old South Church location?

I explained all this to you! Same direction as North-star in relation to the moon in the image. North-star being the old north and moon has to be another church since X and T are both crosses.

Choice

I explained all this to you! Same direction as North-star in relation to the moon in the image. North-star being the old north and moon has to be another church since X and T are both crosses.

This explanation was as convincing as the first.
Thank you.

It’s hard to convince an inconvincible. It’s abundantly clear that you don’t agree with my puzzle solving method but this type of heuristic technique is used in technology routinely. Your internet security uses this algorithm.

Alright secret lovers, I’ve been making some real headway on this verse:
All the letters are here to see
“All the letters” is the alphabet. Where do you see the alphabet? Children’s television shows.
So I did some research and found out that Preiss worked on some children’s show called, “Sesame Street.” I watched a few clips on Youtube, and it’s apparently about some mentally ill/challenged muppets living in a poor, run-down neighborhood. I did some Googling, and Boston has a large section of low-income housing, so we know we’re in the right city.
here’s where it gets interesting:
This is the logo for Sesame Street:
“All the letters are here to see…” Check out that trio of letters on the top: CTW. Now move the C to the end: TWC
TWC
…
…
Do you see it yet?
TW(O) C .
All the letters are here “Two C”
He has incorporated both a hom*nym puzzle and a word scramble puzzle in the
very same clue
!
He wants us to check out the 2C area of Charlesgate, one of the most popular sections, I believe first discovered by erexere!
It’s right there, in one line with two clues, both pointing right at 2C!
That’s not all that’s hidden there. Rearrange CTW again: WCT … Pronounce it aloud like it’s a word…
…
…
Do you hear it yet?
Wicket!
As in “wicket awesome,” a popular Bostonian saying that probably refers to a love for croquet or cricket or something!
More associations:
– There is a muppet named Polly Darton… The woman in image 11 looks like a brunette Dolly Parton!
– A lot of Bostonians look a lot like Muppets!
It’s there, we just have to keep tracking all the dig spots until some blind pig (it could be you, it could be me) sniffs out the treasure….
Do you smell it yet? I can feel it: It’s so close I can taste!
I’m currently scouring archived historical photos to see if there is a garbage can or a bird’s nest that was there in 1980 which would pinpoint a dig spot. Wish me luck!

jekatt

Secrets, secrets are no fun
That’s too bad! You seem to have some pretty good ideas. Personally I think the Boston casque (if there is one) is in the Fens… it’s the only place that has multiple visual confirmations. Your 30 benches = 30 days of the month idea is a really good one though, was hoping you’d find one up here

Stick around for a while and make some contributions. People will start to share more with you.

421 are you still going to post a write up of your boston trip?

jekatt

421 are you still going to post a write up of your boston trip?

Unfortunately, no. It was a great idea when the group was small and homogeneous (for the most part). Now that there are people coming out of the woodwork, it doesn’t seem like the smartest idea. Sorry.

Secrets, secrets are no fun
That’s too bad! You seem to have some pretty good ideas. Personally I think the Boston casque (if there is one) is in the Fens… it’s the only place that has multiple visual confirmations. Your 30 benches = 30 days of the month idea is a really good one though, was hoping you’d find one up here

erexere

…
Like the M and B were glimpse references to the full name inscriptions Mozart and Beethoven, I think the lines “Eighteenth day / Twelfth hour” are a similar glimpse reference to the full poetic piece.  M and B represented a site location in Chicago.
It seems the best thing to extract from the poem in terms of a site location is something callled Somerset.

Using the logic of the first two factual statements and the theory that we should be reading this as literary reference and not simply Paul Revere/Boston, wouldn’t the logic be that the best thing to extract is the full text of the poem’s lines that are quoted:
Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.
It was twelve by the village clock
When he crossed the bridge into Medford town.
He heard the crowing of the cock,
And the barking of the farmer’s dog,
And felt the damp of the river fog,
That rises after the sun goes down.
On a tangent, but timely thought… “Eighteenth day / Twelfth hour”…
it’s literal
Layer 1 Interpretation:
it means look for a place on the 18th day and 12th hour ??
it’s referencing Paul Revere’s Ride poem
Layer 2 Interpretation:
it means look for Paul Revere
something
Layer 3 Interpretation:
it means the Longfellow Bridge
Layer 3.5 Interpretation:
it means cross a bridge (you’re being given directions)
Layer 421 Interpretation:
it means look Summerset for
something

I don’t see how it makes sense to extract only a portion of the poem.  The crossing of a bridge doesn’t seem to be a real point of tension.  Crossing undetected by the Somerset makes this poem memorable.  The ship and the crossing was factual.  The poem fictionalizes some details for effect.
The Landlord’s Tale. Paul Revere’s Ride
By Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Listen, my children, and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.
He said to his friend, “If the British march
By land or sea from the town to-night,
Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch
Of the North Church tower as a signal light,—
One, if by land, and two, if by sea;
And I on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm
Through every Middlesex village and farm,
For the country folk to be up and to arm.”
Then he said, “Good night!” and with muffled oar
Silently rowed to the Charlestown shore,
Just as the moon rose over the bay,
Where swinging wide at her moorings lay
The Somerset
, British man-of-war;
A phantom ship, with each mast and spar
Across the moon like a prison bar,
And a huge black hulk, that was magnified
By its own reflection in the tide.
Meanwhile, his friend, through alley and street,
Wanders and watches with eager ears,
Till in the silence around him he hears
The muster of men at the barrack door,
The sound of arms, and the tramp of feet,
And the measured tread of the grenadiers,
Marching down to their boats on the shore.
Then he climbed the tower of the Old North Church,
By the wooden stairs, with stealthy tread,
To the belfry-chamber overhead,
And startled the pigeons from their perch
On the sombre rafters, that round him made
Masses and moving shapes of shade, —
By the trembling ladder, steep and tall,
To the highest window in the wall,
Where he paused to listen and look down
A moment on the roofs of the town,
And the moonlight flowing over all.
Beneath, in the churchyard, lay the dead,
In their night-encampment on the hill,
Wrapped in silence so deep and still
That he could hear, like a sentinel’s tread,
The watchful night-wind, as it went
Creeping along from tent to tent,
And seeming to whisper, “All is well!”
A moment only he feels the spell
Of the place and the hour, and the secret dread
Of the lonely belfry and the dead;
For suddenly all his thoughts are bent
On a shadowy something far away,
Where the river widens to meet the bay, —
A line of black that bends and floats
On the rising tide, like a bridge of boats.
Meanwhile, impatient to mount and ride,
Booted and spurred, with a heavy stride
On the opposite shore walked Paul Revere.
Now he patted his horse’s side,
Now gazed at the landscape far and near,
Then, impetuous, stamped the earth,
And turned and tightened his saddle girth;
But mostly he watched with eager search
The belfry-tower of the Old North Church,
As it rose above the graves on the hill,
Lonely and spectral and sombre and still.
And lo! as he looks, on the belfry’s height
A glimmer, and then a gleam of light!
He springs to the saddle, the bridle he turns,
But lingers and gazes, till full on his sight
A second lamp in the belfry burns!
A hurry of hoofs in a village street,
A shape in the moonlight, a bulk in the dark,
And beneath, from the pebbles, in passing, a spark
Struck out by a steed flying fearless and fleet:
That was all! And yet, through the gloom and the light,
The fate of a nation was riding that night;
And the spark struck out by that steed, in his flight,
Kindled the land into flame with its heat.
He has left the village and mounted the steep,
And beneath him, tranquil and broad and deep,
Is the Mystic, meeting the ocean tides;
And under the alders, that skirt its edge,
Now soft on the sand, now loud on the ledge,
Is heard the tramp of his steed as he rides.
It was twelve by the village clock,
When he crossed the bridge into Medford town.
He heard the crowing of the cock,
And the barking of the farmer’s dog,
And felt the damp of the river fog,
That rises after the sun goes down.
It was one by the village clock,
When he galloped into Lexington.
He saw the gilded weathercock
Swim in the moonlight as he passed,
And the meeting-house windows, blank and bare,
Gaze at him with a spectral glare,
As if they already stood aghast
At the bloody work they would look upon.
It was two by the village clock,
When he came to the bridge in Concord town.
He heard the bleating of the flock,
And the twitter of birds among the trees,
And felt the breath of the morning breeze
Blowing over the meadows brown.
And one was safe and asleep in his bed
Who at the bridge would be first to fall,
Who that day would be lying dead,
Pierced by a British musket-ball.
You know the rest. In the books you have read,
How the British Regulars fired and fled, —
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farm-yard wall,
Chasing the red-coats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.
So through the night rode Paul Revere;
And so through the night went his cry of alarm
To every Middlesex village and farm, —
A cry of defiance and not of fear,
A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door,
And a word that shall echo forevermore!
For, borne on the night-wind of the Past,
Through all our history, to the last,
In the hour of darkness and peril and need,
The people will waken and listen to hear
The hurrying hoof-beats of that steed,
And the midnight message of Paul Revere.

erexere

I don’t see how it makes sense to extract only a portion of the poem.  The crossing of a bridge doesn’t seem to be a real point of tension.
Crossing undetected by the Somerset makes this poem memorable.
The ship and the crossing was factual.  The poem fictionalizes some details for effect.

i only extracted the portion to which the verse ‘quotes’ in order to put the lines in their context (what i later referenced as a 3.5-layer deep interpretation, which I consider too deep to consider, and only provided for context as to how deep of a layer the Somerset interpretation was). the two stanzas seem important to extract because the “twelfth hour” is quite specific, especially considering that the poem mentions things that happen at 12, 1 ,and 2 o’clock hours.
clearly the Somerset is not what makes this poem memorable (what I referred to as a 421-layer deep interpretation). What is the first thought that pops into your mind when you hear “eighteenth day, twelfth hour?” Paul Revere and Boston, not the Somerset! You didn’t even know about the Somerset until you
researched
an arbitrary line that is not even quoted from the poem!

I disagree.  Read the poem and tell me people weren’t excited when Longfellow mentions the warship.  It’s like the most intense scene in Shawshank Redemption where you think they’ll get caught while escaping.
By the way, nice job being as specific as possible about your layers of interpretation.
Eh, it’s in the poem. Lines 19-23.
There’s an assortment of objects mentioned in the poem, but of them, only a couple aren’t arbitrary.  The Northtower, perhaps the clock (I don’t know where that is), and the Somerset.  The Longfellow bridge is also a consideration.  Anything else?

erexere

There’s an assortment of objects mentioned in the poem, but of them, only a couple aren’t arbitrary.  The Northtower, perhaps the clock (I don’t know where that is), and the Somerset.  The Longfellow bridge is also a consideration.  Anything else?

NO! Please, God, NO!

I just noticed the title of the poem was changed to “The Landlord’s Tale”.  Doesn’t that go with “Feel at home”?
Or would it go better with “Feel evicted”?

OK, lets try this,  If Thucydides is North of Xenophon, which BTW he’s not, he is East of Xenophon, and this is according to the location of their names on the BPL,  maybe…we are to simply go in the direction Thucy sits on the wall compared to Xeno.  This could be the reason for “If”.  So than he’s east and not North, go
five blocks
east and it takes you to the Plaza Castle.  There’s a little park area there shaped like a triangle.  Not sure if this could be the spot, but I surely forced the first four lines to fit. Find a good map and you’ll see it.

Not only is there a tiny little triangle park, the “Castle” has a moat. Could this be the “water” that you have to face?
http://www.bostonparkplaza.com/location.shtml
(Good view of the grounds and streets)
http://www.bostonparkplaza.com/castle.shtml
(layout of Castle, showing moat)

oops. I’m wrong again.  Thucy’s south of Xenophon.  I have DDD.  Direction Deficit Disorder.  I’m working this angle for now.

If you take five steps south, the direction that Thucy is from Xenophone, depending on how big the steps, you may have to cross the street, look down The Avenue of Arts.  The biggest thing you’ll see is the Prudential
Tower
which is green (I think).  I haven’t figured what the five steps actually are, streets, blocks, or paces?  Just past the Tower is The Christian Science Church Park.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabb/1700219751/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsscarrot/313158192/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottmccracken/1214778995/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sissnitz/378147920/
The first pic is a view of the Church park from the tower.  The second and last of these four photos shows the columns much like the
Colosseum
in Rome.  The third pic shows what might be the “box”.  Not as good as the Plaza castle, I’ll admit, but still part of the Church with the columns and could most definitely work.
I’m lost with
In the middle section
, but it still could be the Back Bay Fens. Yet,
Near those who pass the coliseum with metal walls
reminds me of what FB said a while back, Cars!
Near
the road?  Face the water.  I think we need to find a road name in the image before we jump to conclusions.  And, the Back Bay Fens Park is one block further down from the church on Westland Ave.
Feel at home
Your back to the stairs
All the letters
Are here to see
?
And I think the last four lines only confirm Boston as the locale, absolutely.
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
lit by lamplight
In truth be free

Unknown

Unknown:
The first pic is a view of the Church park from the tower.  The second and last of these four photos shows the columns much like the Colosseum in Rome.  The third pic shows what might be the “box”.  Not as good as the Plaza castle, I’ll admit, but still part of the Church with the columns and could most definitely work.

Er….the Colosseum in Rome did not have columns. It had arches.  In fact, the church more resembles the Temple of Hercules, which was round (a “dipteral” temple)  and had columns.

OK, Roman design then.  And I’ve just found that the Hancock Building is green and not the Pru tower.  There is a green tower in the Pru Center, but wasn’t built until the 90’s.  It’s here somewhere.

shecrab

Er….the Colosseum in Rome did not have columns. It had arches.  In fact, the church more resembles the Temple of Hercules, which was round (a “dipteral” temple)  and had columns.

Take a look, as I suggested before, of Harvard Stadium  (not in this part of Boston though) for
the Coliseum ‘look’

boogieman

OK, Roman design then.  And I’ve just found that the Hancock Building is green and not the Pru tower.  There is a green tower in the Pru Center, but wasn’t built until the 90’s.  It’s here somewhere.

Yes, I am convinced a casque was placed in the Boston area.
Thing I have to reason out (what does ‘his direction’ mean)

Trohn, I’m still trying to work off of the BPL.  If we can find a part of the verse that takes us to the Harvard Stadium, I’ll certainly spend more of my time there.  What have you got?

boogieman

Trohn, I’m still trying to work off of the BPL.  If we can find a part of the verse that takes us to the Harvard Stadium, I’ll certainly spend more of my time there.  What have you got?

Nothing yet…. trying to find another meaning to Thucydides and Xenophone.
Its very possible with the colleges around.
Something I just gound… interesting… that the matching image has an
emerald in it:
Emerald NecklaceBoston’s Emerald Necklace consists of an 1,100-acre chain of nine parks linked by parkways and waterways. This linear system of parks and parkways was designed by Frederick Law Olmsted to connect the Boston Common, which dates from the colonial period, and the 1837 Public Garden along the Muddy River and Leverett, Willow, Ward’s and Jamaica ponds through the Arnold Arboretum to the great country park – Franklin Park.
From Boston Common to Franklin Park it is approximately 7 miles by foot or bicycle through the parks.
Boston Common
Public Garden
Commonwealth Avenue Mall
Back Bay Fens
Riverway
Olmsted Park
Jamaica Pond Park
Arnold Arboretum
Franklin Park

What would stop one from interpretting the verse as:
from the Boston Public Library – take the T (green line)
five stops (This will get you off at North Station)
The bird in the image is (after all) standing on a ‘T’

The thing that got this thread going on Boston was the line about Thucydides and Xenophon, from a quote from a letter to Horace Mann,
written by HORACE WALPOLE.
I have not seen that name mentioned. I have seen Horace Mann, and the two Greeks, mentioned several times–but no one has bothered to research Horace Walpole.
The reason I’m bringing this up, is that you may want to put Walpole into Google and see what Wikipedia has to say about where he lived–you might be shocked to your shoes. THIS MIGHT BE THE CASTLE IN P.11.
Yes, the castle is in London, on Strawberry Hill. But that would seem only to confirm
Walpole
–NOT Horace MANN–as the focus. And if that is the case, we may indeed be way off geographically–or maybe not. Walpole was commenting in his letter to Mann about the American Revolution–which has its roots in Boston, of course. However–we may want to investigate more of Horace Walpole–such as perhaps a Walpole Building, or Walpole Street…or something…
what do you think?

shecrab

The thing that got this thread going on Boston was the line about Thucydides and Xenophon, from a quote from a letter to Horace Mann,
written by HORACE WALPOLE.
I have not seen that name mentioned. I have seen Horace Mann, and the two Greeks, mentioned several times–but no one has bothered to research Horace Walpole.
The reason I’m bringing this up, is that you may want to put Walpole into Google and see what Wikipedia has to say about where he lived–you might be shocked to your shoes. THIS MIGHT BE THE CASTLE IN P.11.
Yes, the castle is in London, on Strawberry Hill. But that would seem only to confirm
Walpole
–NOT Horace MANN–as the focus. And if that is the case, we may indeed be way off geographically–or maybe not. Walpole was commenting in his letter to Mann about the American Revolution–which has its roots in Boston, of course. However–we may want to investigate more of Horace Walpole–such as perhaps a Walpole Building, or Walpole Street…or something…
what do you think?

Actually, Thucydides and Xenophon are on the external frieze of the Boston Public LIbrary.
And the last four lines of the verse briefly summarize Paul Revere’s signal to ride.
I do not know of any reference between the verse and the letter by Walpole – can you point this out?

Socrates, Pindar and Apelles are also carved into the wall at the BPL. Thucydides and Xenophon are also on the Cleveland wall. Using this logic, the Cleveland verse could have been erroneously applied to the Boston puzzle and specifically the library. And vice versa.
The huge difference is IMAGE CONFIRMERS that are all around the Gardens in Cleveland telling searchers that they are in the right spot.
Please, explain 1 good image confirmer near the BPL. Something close to the quality found in Cleveland.
Relentless historical research and endless connecting of famous and historically important people is not a substitute for image confirmers.
Crickets…

BINGO

Socrates, Pindar and Apelles are also carved into the wall at the BPL. Thucydides and Xenophon are also on the Cleveland wall. Using this logic, the Cleveland verse could have been erroneously applied to the Boston puzzle and specifically the library. And vice versa.
The huge difference is IMAGE CONFIRMERS that are all around the Gardens in Cleveland telling searchers that they are in the right spot.
Please, explain 1 good image confirmer near the BPL. Something close to the quality found in Cleveland.
Relentless historical research and endless connecting of famous and historically important people is not a substitute for image confirmers.
Crickets…

BINGO, I think the first confirmer, although not in the Image is this part of the verse:
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
The historic significance of Paul Revere’s historical ride is the Boston confirmer. Now, how do we get to BPL from there with the more limited resources of BP’s era? There was no internet so I would have done what I did in college, go to the Library and look up info. In this case though, the information (their Names) is actually ON the library.

gManTexas

In the Cleveland puzzle we had the names Socrates, Pindar, Apelles in the verse and they were carved into the Pylon Wall. No one debates the validity of this reference. Why should we hate on the fact that the names Thucydides and Xenophon are carved on the wall of the BPL? Or is this a question of what to do after we find those names?
By the way, the word Free appears on the Sir Henry Vane statue in the entry to the library, and the word Truth appears on the bronze doors as you enter the library. Not to mention the slogan “Free to all” on the front of the building.

I’m not hating on BPL, I just don’t see a point in to conform to something which may serve no purpose. I have a belief about the wall in Cleveland that the names were chosen for a specific reason, serving an acrostic for S P A, because it fits nicely with the aquamarine description in the LotJ, “Nymphs of Hellas, springwater clear”.
I like the usage of Thucydides and Xenophon as an acrostic as well, T_X for “TAX”, which seems distinctly harder to pick out than the Cleveland example. I use this to consider the supporting character of the Tax Burden in the field guide portion which was drawn by JJP.

BINGO

Socrates, Pindar and Apelles are also carved into the wall at the BPL. Thucydides and Xenophon are also on the Cleveland wall. Using this logic, the Cleveland verse could have been erroneously applied to the Boston puzzle and specifically the library. And vice versa.
The huge difference is IMAGE CONFIRMERS that are all around the Gardens in Cleveland telling searchers that they are in the right spot.
Please, explain 1 good image confirmer near the BPL. Something close to the quality found in Cleveland.
Relentless historical research and endless connecting of famous and historically important people is not a substitute for image confirmers.
Crickets…

Doubling down…let’s explain one solid, indisputable image confirmer for anything boston in image 11.

BINGO

Socrates, Pindar and Apelles are also carved into the wall at the BPL. Thucydides and Xenophon are also on the Cleveland wall. Using this logic, the Cleveland verse could have been erroneously applied to the Boston puzzle and specifically the library. And vice versa.
The huge difference is IMAGE CONFIRMERS that are all around the Gardens in Cleveland telling searchers that they are in the right spot.
Please, explain 1 good image confirmer near the BPL. Something close to the quality found in Cleveland.
Relentless historical research and endless connecting of famous and historically important people is not a substitute for image confirmers.
Crickets…

It is my opinion that the Cleveland and Chicago images were the two most visual puzzles of the twelve. This is also the problem with this hunt in that lots of people want to apply the same rules to the remaining images. If it was that easy, and there were straightforward visual images confirmers, I would think that many more of these would have been solved and dug up by now.

I figure it’s OK to draw some parallels but be careful when you draw too many and also don’t rely too heavily on them.

gManTexas

It is my opinion that the Cleveland and Chicago images were the two most visual puzzles of the twelve. This is also the problem with this hunt in that lots of people want to apply the same rules to the remaining images. If it was that easy, and there were straightforward visual images confirmers, I would think that many more of these would have been solved and dug up by now.

Also, to play devil’s advocate to myself… the shitty thing is, probably with both Chicago and Cleveland…it is not like in the Chicago fence post in the pic was automatically recognizable as an image confirmer until you were there, via the verse. Same with Cleveland, yeah it says”seek the columns” but it is not like those columns in that garden were super well known to Cleveland as in…”this is definitely where the columns are”…it wasn’t until you got there, again via the verse, did you know, and see. With that being said, maybe no one has gotten to where we need to be yet, with regards to Boston, otherwise there would be more solid matches?

strike13

Also, to play devil’s advocate to myself… the shitty thing is, probably with both Chicago and Cleveland…it is not like in the Chicago fence post in the pic was automatically recognizable as an image confirmer until you were there, via the verse. Same with Cleveland, yeah it says”seek the columns” but it is not like those columns in that garden were super well known to Cleveland as in…”these are definitely where the columns are”…it wasn’t until you got there, again via the verse, did you know, and see. With that being said, maybe no one has gotten to where we need to be yet, with regards to Boston, otherwise there would be more sold matches?

That is possible.
I had the pleasure of going to Cleveland recently and I did a deep dive into that puzzle. I saw a lot of stuff that people have either missed or just not discussed.
When you are walking the pathof the verse, which is not 100% straightforward, you come upon the columns if you are on Upper East Blvd. If we are following the intended path to the Italian Gardens first to see the fountains, then you enter the Greek Gardens from the side and wind up in between the Pylon Wall and the columns. But yes, it is an a-ha moment.

strike13

maybe no one has gotten to where we need to be yet, with regards to Boston, otherwise there would be more solid matches?

This could be a very good possibility.
I strongly believe that if you are in the correct area, the image and the verse will make sense.
Boston has its fair share of solves. Some spots have good image matches that are difficult to line up with the verse. Some follow the verse perfectly but have no good image matches. So far, all have yielded the same results.
It is very possible that we just havent stumbled upon the the correct spot. Yet…
On a somewhat related note:
Does anyone think that Egbert (hopefully he can answer this) would have driven to Cleveland without seeing a picture of the wall? Would Johann’s internet search that resulted in finding Socrates, Pindar and Apelles inscribed on the wall at the cultural gardens been enough to take that trip? If it was, he could have easily been driving to the Boston Public Library because it too shares those same names. My gut tells me no, but I could be wrong.
The kids in Chicago had the M&B clue completely wrong. It didn’t matter because of one very important thing. They were applying the wrong verse interpretation to the Bowman statue which is obviously a very important part of the image. This led them to the next series of correct verse and image interpretations.
Everyone can argue all day long about how to apply the verse and image to a particular site. We are all free to draw our own conclusions of what is more important, the verse or the image. My theory stands, without strong connections to both, you are just pissing into the wind.

erexere

The way I see it, BPL is a nonstarter.

erexere

Another place in the verse which may help direct us south is “your back to the stairs”

I like this… I think. By “nonstarter,” do you mean “just a popular landmark Preiss used to get people on board with the general area?” Because I can get on board with that.
Unless it’s a final dig spot indicator (which I think it is, all thanks to your finding the 2C area. So the stairs have to be the stairs of the emergency metro exit), “your back to the stairs” is useless. Everywhere has stairs. Every house, library, church, etc. has stairs. Go anywhere in any city and you can see some stairs nearby. It’s like “White house close at hand,” in that unless there is actual quoted words nearby (like a plaque saying “Paul Revere had his back to the stairs”) it can only be used as meaningless confirmation of whatever solution we want.
It’s like “brush” in the Chicago verse. Hey there’s brush anywhere there is bushes or trees… that seems like a wide range of options. Then we find out it had nothing to do with bushes or trees, it’s art, which is also everywhere.
…
…
…
Except Antarctica.

In the Cleveland puzzle we had the names Socrates, Pindar, Apelles in the verse and they were carved into the Pylon Wall. No one debates the validity of this reference. Why should we hate on the fact that the names Thucydides and Xenophon are carved on the wall of the BPL? Or is this a question of what to do after we find those names?
By the way, the word Free appears on the Sir Henry Vane statue in the entry to the library, and the word Truth appears on the bronze doors as you enter the library. Not to mention the slogan “Free to all” on the front of the building.

gManTexas

In the Cleveland puzzle we had the names Socrates, Pindar, Apelles in the verse and they were carved into the Pylon Wall. No one debates the validity of this reference. Why should we hate on the fact that the names Thucydides and Xenophon are carved on the wall of the BPL? Or is this a question of what to do after we find those names?
By the way, the word Free appears on the Sir Henry Vane statue in the entry to the library, and the word Truth appears on the bronze doors as you enter the library. Not to mention the slogan “Free to all” on the front of the building.

I like this.
And weren’t Mozart and Beethoven just two among many names carved on the wall? I think this has merit, can you link me a picture of the bronze doors? I’m googling around but can’t find anything

drunknerds

I like this.
And weren’t Mozart and Beethoven just two among many names carved on the wall? I think this has merit, can you link me a picture of the bronze doors? I’m googling around but can’t find anything

Boston Public Library
http://www.cryan.com/daily/20170720.jspBronze
Doors

erexere

I kinda like the Freedom Trail idea, but I dont want to change my views about Charlesgate, which remains a hopeful answer to this mystery. So much still seems uncertain to me.

What is perplexing, although I don’t know how much stock to place on it, are the Japanese hints that claims that any clue would give away the puzzle for Verse 3. Is it really that simple?

gManTexas

What is perplexing, although I don’t know how much stock to place on it, are the Japanese hints that claims that any clue would give away the puzzle for Verse 3. Is it really that simple?

If so, the word coliseum in the verse heavily narrows down the reasonable search areas.
Fenway Park is probably the most recognizable and the original Boston Garden would have been another major attraction. To me, any other “coliseum” in and around Boston pales in comparison to those two examples.

BINGO

If so, the word coliseum in the verse heavily narrows down the reasonable search areas.
Fenway Park is probably the most recognizable and the original Boston Garden would have been another major attraction. To me, any other “coliseum” in and around Boston pales in comparison to those two examples.

Well spoke sir.