Fenix

Have you found anything that ties directly to truth?

The Dyer statue is near the beginning of the trail at the Boston Common/State House. Also, the statue of George Washington is at the Boston Public Gardens which is next to the Boston Common.
Other than that, I got squat for in truth be free.
Edit: One other thing that I’ve seen and heard discussed is that all of the public libraries in Boston have the motto “Free to all” engraved into the doorway. I personally know of 2 that have it, but I can’t be sure that they all do. It’s usually a point made by the Copley and BPL theorists out there. It seems to be missing the “in truth” part.

BINGO

The Dyer statue is near the beginning of the trail at the Boston Common/State House. Also, the statue of George Washington is at the Boston Public Gardens which is next to the Boston Common.
Other than that, I got squat for in truth be free.
Edit: One other thing that I’ve seen and heard discussed is that all of the public libraries in Boston have the motto “Free to all” engraved into the doorway. I personally know of 2 that have it, but I can’t be sure that they all do. It’s usually a point made by the Copley and BPL theorists out there. It seems to be missing the “in truth” part.

How about Sojourner Truth, born Isabella Baumfree. She is connected to the Charles Street Meeting House at 70 Charles Street.
https://www.biography.com/people/sojour … th-9511284

strike13

Also, Backstop…I’ll head over to the fens again soon.
It’s not an easy lunch break trip for me because I work downtown. Maybe I’ll score some sox tix…hoooopefully… and then hit up the fens first! Go Sox!

Sounds great Strike, hopefully you can get your World Series tix. Our Cincinnati boy saved the day and ended the game with a beautiful diving catch in game 4 last night. Andrew has been in my building before and he also played against my son and our Summer team as well. He just keeps getting better.

gManTexas

How about Sojourner Truth, born Isabella Baumfree. She is connected to the Charles Street Meeting House at 70 Charles Street.
https://www.biography.com/people/sojour … th-9511284

Also there is Veritas for Harvard.
Additionally, I did like someone’s theory from a long time ago, possibly it was 421 or Xie. They were talking about a spot on the Esplanade which is directly across from the Athenaeum in Cambridge and topped with a statue of Greek goddess Athena.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenaeum_Press
Hmmm…Press…alll the letters are here to see
This can be viewed from the river, very near to the Longfellow bridge. I do not know much about Greek gods/goddesses, but i have seen mixed info that she is the goddess of truth. Also there is a building called the Green Tower right there. As with Bingo, my thoughts and opinions change on the daily with regards to Boston. I still like the esplanade for all of this, in so many ways. But brings me further from the newly found info of the translated Japanese words that were selected, which to me, scream Fenway.
Go Sox!
PS – 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs are casque cities…

strike13

I’ll take a walk over there again on my lunch break this week. I do not believe you can get in that area of the lawn of the statehouse. I tried to get on on the other side of the lawn to see the Horace Mann statue. No luck. I usually dont strike out when i ask for these types of favors haha. I asked some of the guards about it and even tried to get one to come out with me. They are very protective of the lawn area post 9/11 and let no one on it. Nice people though. They brought me to a Horace Mann painting inside instead. Nothing noteworthy there.
I’ll definitely give it another shot!

thats the one across from the commons right? i could not access it either when i was there…was wondering what they said lol

I believe I have a possible dig-location for someone to check out.
Here is a small park by Copp’s Hill Cemetery.  It may be considered an
extension of the North End Playground on the other side of Commercial Street.
If you are walking down Charter Street, you see a stairway leading down to the
park on the Commercial Street level.
When you reach the bottom of the stairs, you face North looking out at the harbor.
With your back to the stairs, you have a nice tree in front of you…about 5 steps away.
Here you see the stairway from Commercial St….The stairs at the far left are the ones
you just came down…See the tree with the “X”?  If you use the stairs at the right,
you will have to cross Commercial St. to get to North End Playground…Which may be
an alternative dig-area.
Here is a very simplified route through “The Area of Thucydides’ Direction”…or the Area of the
North
End.
The green line is one route, and the pink line is a more direct alternative.  Of course, BP could also have gone
down Prince Street and meandered his way to the park.
This looks like a place to at least probe around with a metal rod.
AP

Just sharing the Hanover St. image of Mother Anna’s Restaurant (on the right)
with the mailboxes next door…
“Feel at home”
“All the letters here to see”
AP

I am beginning to wonder again if we are interpreting this V wrong.
I still believe that:
If Thucydides is North of Xenophon
and
Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free.
simply get us to Boston.
I think that:
Face the water Your back to the stairs
is the specific area of our casque…and possibly including
Feel at home All the letters Are here to see
These seem to be very area specific to me.
Now it gets a little fuzzy.
A green tower of lights In the middle section Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls
I think that these may be describing things seen along the route or nearby the area but not as area specific.
Now, the big problem with our area is that once we are there facing the water with our back to the stairs, we are basically left with no other instructions or directions to go.  Do we just dig there with our back to the stairs?  This is where I think the final 2 lines of the V which I have left out come into play.  I think a different read of these lines will help narrow down our area once we are there.
Take five steps In the area of his direction
This always sounded a little odd to me until now.  I think this may be another instance where we are emphasizing these lines wrong.  I hope I can explain this without confusing you guys too badly.  Let’s break it down like this:
Take five steps In the area
&
of his direction
.  Now it would read more like this:
If Thucydides is North of Xenophon
{we know this to be true since Boston is North of New York}
Take five steps In the area
{we know our area and now have more directions to follow once there}
of his direction
{North}.
So, once we find our starting place in our general area {more then likely with our back to the stairs} we take 5 steps North.

yet more ramblings.  BP wouldnt be able to pull something like this off would he?
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/ … /bpl07.jpg
w/in a courtyard at the BPL.  It IS in the “middle section”, there IS “face the water”,  there ARE “back to the stairs”,  i suppose you CAN “feel at home” & being a library “all the letters are here to see”

Police officers just drove past me when I had been digging in St. Louis (in the wrong spots, of course).  Perhaps library patrons would just assume that BP worked there.

Possibly, just acting like he is planting flowers or something?  If that is the case tho, will we need to ask permission or just dig?  Probably not even the right spot…but just in case….

fox

Xieish……I like it. I like it a lot. There are some very strong confirmers there. I am one of those that still believe the T and X are solely there to get us to Boston….not necessarily at the site itself. This area really needs some more investigating.
How far is this area from say downtown Boston or Copley Sq?

maltedfalcon

While that is possible. It is important to remember that at this point 100% of the found casques resolve the exact same way.
Everything else is pure supposition.

T and X… kind of stupid to say they are solely a fit for Boston when many old libraries around the nation have Thucydides and Xenophon etched in their stone facades.  Here’s the panel from the Central Library of Portland, Oregon:
I’m tired of seeing people say things are strong confirmers without gathering any serious momentum.  It’s nice to know that you agree or disagree with things, and it’s nice to know how you’re feeling about anything in general, but don’t pull out some milquetoasty qualifying statement that ends up being a very insignificant lead.  Thucydides and Xenophon on BPL is a fantastic find.  Of a all the names that are etched on those panels, why did Preiss select those two?  Why two at all?  Why not just one name, or three?  The important point to consider is that he chose Thucydides and Xenophon A) at random, B) for a reason.  How sure are we that the verses depend on the LotJ?  There’s no real proof of that consideration in the Cleveland or Chicago solves is there?
This is true, but potentially misleading.  There has never been total clarification from the author on all resolvable points.  From what Egbert tells us, Preiss wasn’t too chatty about the details or the other casques for that matter.

fox

It isn’t the names on the library people. It’s the quote. It gets us to Boston.

See, I’d agree with this if Preiss had created the hunt sometime in the last decade. But if knowledge of the quote “A Thucydides in Boston, a Xenophon in New York” were required to make sense of that and figure out it meant Boston, it would make the hunt more or less unsolvable in 1983. Back then, there was no Google. There was no way for a layman to sit at a computer and do a search of all literature that contained both terms. It would mean that the only way a person would be able to move forward with verse 3 would be if they’d happened to read one specific letter, which in the case of most people is so unlikely that I have a really hard time thinking we’re supposed to take it to mean Boston.
There are literary references in other verses, but none of them are integral to solving the puzzle – they just provide a bit of a hint (Hermann park, etc), a little something for people who’ve happened to have read those works. But if T and X referred to that quote, you’d be dead in the water without having read that one letter. I certainly agree that the individual puzzles seem to be of varying difficulty and that lateral thinking might be required for some more than others (or it might not – we only have two definitive solutions and a couple good starts), but I just don’t think any of them require such an obscure piece of trivia to solve.
I’d even say that I depart from the majority in that I don’t think T and X refer to the Boston Public Library. I don’t have a strong hypothesis as to what they
do
refer to, but I don’t think it’s the BPL.

The paths in Fenway Victory Gardens are named with
“All the letters
Are here to see”
Path T is actually east of Path X but if you turn the map left 90 degrees so T is North of X then plots 1 to 5 are in front of you
“If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction”
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/105492446/Maps—Fenway-Victory-Gardens
Now see the photos on Google Street Map just outside plot 5 on path P !

I was content to badger just fox…
We know M and B were etched in the stone facade of a popular building related to music and along the road, both hinted at in the Chicago verse.  The process of walking to the library just to learn more about Thucydides or Xenophon is neither Boston specific nor Google specific.  Relating Celtic fashion to Boston is easy.  Without a strong hypothesis to defray from the BPL, I can’t think why youbwould be against it.  As to why Thucydides and Xenophon, I thought it was hashed out quite well that the best idea so far to come around n a long long time is they were both exiles.  It fits the question, begged by the construction of the verse, “if Thucydides is”, is what? In a simple dissociation from the following line, what can we consider?  Exile is a good answer.  Historians or Greek is another.  One idea gains more traction than another…when xieish corrected my assumption, I thought we absolutely nailed the answer.
Don’t be afraid to use Google.  It enhances our research ability but it doesn’t prevent us from using our brains.  Lots of brains around here, but most of it is wasted on stumbling blocks.

wk

The paths in Fenway Victory Gardens are named with
“All the letters
Are here to see”
Path T is actually east of Path X but if you turn the map left 90 degrees so T is North of X then plots 1 to 5 are in front of you
“If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction”
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/105492446/Maps—Fenway-Victory-Gardens
Now see the photos on Google Street Map just outside plot 5 on path P !

I love this idea at first glance.  Go with substitution.  If M and B can be Moz and Beets then Thucy and Xens can be T and X.  Turn that map 90 degrees and you have a working theory.
Other things bother me about the idea but I’ll hold off for now.

It isn’t the names on the library people. It’s the quote. It gets us to Boston.

The quote is ethereal by comparison to how the first lines of other verses result in tangible perspectives.  BPL is a fantastic reference point.  The Celtic styling of the image alone is good enough as a Boston direct clue.  Then there is the Revere lead in 18th day 12th hour.
There is clearly a clever something going on in the verse and referring to it as something only to place you in a non-specific spot in Boston is ridiculous.
I’ll grant that Xieish has worked up some decent ideas, but they have some huge gaps.  People make theories look so interesting as a collection or variety of points, but then they have little or no framework to their development.  Shecrab should get back to her non-linear analysis, those at least kicked major butt when it came to internal consistency.

erexere

We know M and B were etched in the stone facade of a popular building related to music and along the road, both hinted at in the Chicago verse.  The process of walking to the library just to learn more about Thucydides or Xenophon is neither Boston specific nor Google specific.  Relating Celtic fashion to Boston is easy.  Without a strong hypothesis to defray from the BPL, I can’t think why youbwould be against it.  As to why Thucydides and Xenophon, I thought it was hashed out quite well that the best idea so far to come around n a long long time is they were both exiles.  It fits the question, begged by the construction of the verse, “if Thucydides is”, is what? In a simple dissociation from the following line, what can we consider?  Exile is a good answer.  Historians or Greek is another.  One idea gains more traction than another…when xieish corrected my assumption, I thought we absolutely nailed the answer.
Don’t be afraid to use Google.  It enhances our research ability but it doesn’t prevent us from using our brains.  Lots of brains around here, but most of it is wasted on stumbling blocks.

I’m not
against
it in the sense of thinking it’s bad or anything, it’s just not a line I’m pursuing. If others want to, that’s awesome and they should do that. If you want to know why, here’s why.
First: It’s not common Bostonian knowledge that Thucydides and Xenophon are names engraved on the BPL. No one here would have read that and thought, “Oh yeah, the library.” I live here and I didn’t know that until someone pointed it out in these forums. What this means is that, if the names refer to the BPL, something else in the image or verse would have to have led the reader to Copley, to get to the point where they’d look at the facade and notice the names.  In Chicago, Mozart and Beethoven were names etched on a wall but there were also references in the image which would lead a person to the general area (the water tower, the turret) and narrow it down to Grant Park (the Bowman, etc). You’d have been in the area and seen the names set in stone and then you’d know you were on the right track. In the present day, we know those names are there on the library because we can Google them. Since no one knows that the solution for v3/p11 is, I can’t say that Preiss’s intent wasn’t for you to read these two names and then go to a specific library in Boston to find out more about them, and then see them on the facade, but I’m just not seeing it. So we come back to the question: A guy in 1983 is standing in front of the library and looks at the facade. What in the image or verse led him there? Not just “Oh, it says ‘all the letters’ and that could maybe refer to a library,” but what specific things would he have looked at that got him there? This is what I keep coming back to – I don’t see anything.
Second: None of the working solutions have required an especially deep knowledge of trivia to proceed. For the most part, they’ve all been stage directions. Even the ones in progress tend to work along the same lines: the image gives you a broad sense of where to start looking, then the verses narrow it down and give you an idea of where to dig. None of the verses have required a great deal of lateral thinking or extrapolation. While it’s not impossible that verse 3 is the one exception and that you’re supposed to interpret “If Thucydides is” as a twisty cryptic clue as opposed to a stage direction (and arrive at the conclusion that it means “exile”), it doesn’t fit with the rest of what we know about the construction of the puzzles. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
Third: Thucydides is not north of Xenophon. This means that someone in 1983 might have gotten there (however they got there) but then they’d bust out a compass and find out that the verse contains a condition that the physical reality does not meet. Now, if there were some incontrovertible trail from the image and verse which would have gotten them to the BPL, I’d be more inclined to think that maybe the first two lines shouldn’t be taken literally and are a riddle in and of themselves, since our 1983 treasure hunter would be thinking, “Well, obviously I’m supposed to be here, but T isn’t north of X so it seems like it must mean something else.” When I say incontrovertible, I mean something like an exact representation in the image of statuary found in Copley or at the library. In other words, not something that
could
refer to a visual cue, but something that
definitely does
. But there isn’t anything like that. So if it did refer to T and X, we’d be talking about a clue constructed to dissuade you from a path that was already pretty uncertain. In other words, bad puzzle design. Not only that, but it would mean that the one puzzle is designed badly in a way that the other eleven aren’t.
The same is true if the lines refer to the letter. Most people wouldn’t have read the letter, thus would have been confused by the contradictory nature of what the verse appears to say. But if there were an abundance of additional hard confirmation, they’d be able to ignore that part. For example, the Chicago solution: People were uncertain what was meant by “Where M and B are set in stone,” and in fact for a long time there was the incorrect assumption that it must have meant Man and Beast. But there were so many other confirmers that it didn’t matter.
Fourth: Google doesn’t hinder us by preventing us from using our brains. In fact, it hinders us by doing the opposite. The human brain is exceptionally good at seeing patterns, whether those patterns actually exist or not. We draw connections in our heads. Take a look at this:
What do you see when you look at it? A human face, right? But it isn’t. It looks nothing like one. It’s a circle, two dots and a line. But your brain won’t let you see anything but a human face, and a smiling one at that. For another example, watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bG7EFhMw8w
So Google gives us access to more info than we could possibly have had in 1983 and it gives our brains the chance to draw a lot of different connections, for better or for worse. This is why I keep trying to think about this in 1983 terms. It’s easy to take for granted the tools we have now that weren’t available thirty years ago, but it’s a box that needs to be broken out of. The puzzles were designed by someone who didn’t have Google, to be solved by people who also didn’t.
Which leads to what I said about not having a strong hypothesis. Which I don’t. But I do have a slightly hazy one, and here it is.
I think that image 11, and probably verse 3, most likely refer to St. Louis. I think this because the only things that seem to correspond directly to things found in Boston are the T and X names, and “Eighteenth day / Twelfth hour / Lit by lamplight.” The numbers in image 11 are pretty unclear except for 4 and 2. We’ve established that T and X are names found elsewhere in the country. So either the first two lines of verse three are an incredibly cryptic riddle unlike any found in the other verses, or they don’t refer to the T and X found at the Boston Public Library.
I think it’s St. Louis because Preiss confirmed it. I don’t think he intended it as some sort of wizardy riddlemaster clue. He said, “I think you deserve to know you’re right about St. Louis, but not about the location.” (Yes, I know he wrote
St. Louid
but I really see no reason to think of that as anything but a typo.) The wording is important. “You deserve to know you’re right.” He said that to someone who thought they had a solution for that city, and had done work on it. Otherwise, I think he’d have phrased it differently. He wouldn’t have said, “For all your hard work, you deserve to know that an unrelated solution in a completely different city halfway across the country involves Louis Armstrong.” Others may disagree, and that’s fine.
This leaves two of the images that we aren’t certain about (9 and 11), and image 9 contains a piece of sculpture that is an exact match for one found in Montreal. This leaves image 11.
There are no hard confirmers in image 11 that point to Boston. There just aren’t any. The best we’ve come up with are some elements that kind of resemble stuff that’s in Boston, kind of, if you use your imagination. There are no Polaroid matches. So in terms of the image, St. Louis is just as likely as Boston.
So what I think is that image 11 either refers to things we haven’t yet found or to things that aren’t there anymore. We’re fumbling in the dark with the image. This brings us to the verse.
I think the line “In the area of his direction” is significant, assuming it refers to north. If Preiss just wanted us to take five steps north, he’d simply have said, “In his direction.” He didn’t. “The area of his direction” is nonsense if we try to make it mean heading northward. What I think is that, somewhere out there, there is or was a park in which some of the following conditions are or were met:
– There are statues of Thucydides and Xenophon, or a bas-relief, or whatever, and T is north of X, and one of them (since the verse isn’t clear who is meant by “his”) is gesturing or pointing towards an area of the park (directing you to that area), or
– No statues but the names are engraved somewhere in or very near the park, and T is north of X, and the park is in sections and there’s a northern part, or
– A combination of the two – the names are there, T is north of X, and some statuary is gesturing towards an area; in this case, it wouldn’t be clear who “his” refers to unless you’re standing there.
The “Eighteenth day” (etc) is reminiscent of The Landlord’s Tale, sure. But I think it’s important to be open to the possibility that it might refer to something else. What, I don’t know. It’s another thing that might be clearer once you’re actually there. For example, plaques don’t usually mention the hour. But imagine a plaque that refers to the 18th of a month, and that “twelfth hour” refers to twelve o’clock, the naval direction – in other words, once you’ve met the conditions laid out in the verse (facing water, your back is to the stairs, you’ve done whatever other things it says to do that landed you in a particular spot that is lit by a lamp of some kind), the place to start digging is at twelve o’clock – right in front of you. All I’m saying is that I can easily imagine a scenario in which the verse isn’t referring to the Landlord’s Tale, and in the absence of any other hard confirmation that points us to Boston, it’s not something we can rule out.
Anyway. Like I say, I’m keeping an open mind. If someone can come up with a path which would lead to the BPL using the image (again, with Polaroid matches and not just resemblances) and which would have been solvable in 1983 (and which is at least consistent with the relatively straightforward method in other solutions – in other words, without relying on obscure references or things like, “Well, the woman holding the box is wearing a scoop neck top, and a ‘scoop’ is something a news reporter wants, and there are globes in the image, so that’s clearly a reference to the Boston Globe”), I’ll happily admit that I’m wrong and start doubling down on Boston. But for the time being, the lack of clear hits means to me that Boston is no more likely than some other place we’re missing entirely.

Jsp, thank you for a solid post.  Everything you point out is something I can agree with.  My approach may be wrong as well.  I’d like to say more but for now, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts.  Much remains.

Xieish

Before attempting a dig in that area I would have a criminal lawyer on retainer. I’m not being sarcastic, it’s a very public spot and there may be repercussions. The ground is also un-probable with anything that isn’t a drill.
I’m not so sure I am with you on the Thucydidies/Xenophon thing. For one, they would be findable for sure on the ground (which is I’m still pretty sure the main way these were to be solved – Preiss expected locals to solve them quickly). For two, while I can’t say for certain anything about the “X” – I’m fairly certain there’s no logical way to get the bird to be Thucydidies. A solver in ~1982 would need to confirm things, that solution only makes sense when you have a final spot in mind.
I think the hatch is the hatch and not too much more, I mean shoot we stared at this picture for how many years without recognizing it? I had it pegged as like 8 different objects/buildings around Boston.
edit: I do like the 1812 overture – whether or not it was intentional (even Preiss wasn’t all knowing or omnipotent) it has a nice feel to it

Xie,
1) I think you’re right about being careful about digging their without permission. It’s very public.
2) I still think my explanation for T and X is fairly likely. The X is an on-the-ground find, and then if you’re looking for a T that’s north, you might make the bird/T-shaped perch connection. But I also have an alternate explanation: Xenophon means foreign voice. I.e. someone who spoke with an accent, I.e. Arthur Fiedler, whose statue is visible from the Hatch Shell. Nearly directly North of this literal Xenophon is the statue of a guy whose name starts with T – Maurice Tobin. Tobin’s statue is very near the first bridge (first of five steps). I think either of my theories on T and X is possible. Either way, you get to take the 5 steps, and logically flow into the rest of 421’s solution.
3) What I’m sure about is that the green tower of lights is the lamppost right by the Storrow Compass, which you see immediately and obviously right after you finish the 5th step (bridge). I went there, and it feels unmistakable. Esp when you notice that directly opposite you across the river from this spot is the Green Bldg – tallest in Cambridge. If you’re standing at the Storrow Compass looking across the river, you see this tower of lights with the Green Bldg directly behind. A Green Tower of lights.
4) I don’t get why WK is looking for a complex theory of In Truth Be Free. Why should that mean “True line of sight?” There’s nothing about sight – just truth. And sight to what? Why to a lamppost? How does that lead to a specific spot? 12:00 while sitting on the bench is a specific pinpoint location. The last line should either confirm the spot, or encourage you to dig. I still think In truth be free might be an anagram because it’s not a commonly known phrase as written, and seems like a nonsequitor. Haven’t come up with a good anagram, but still seems possible, and more likely than a more contrived reference to line of sight.
5) You’re right – ground there is not easily probable.
6) 421thrasher – why the radio silence? Getting permission? I’m interested in following up on your behalf (perhaps by trying to get permission), but don’t want to without your blessing since (I believe) you solved it.
-Len

It seems my intent may be being questioned here so I wont beat around the bush anymore.
my above post ending meant “1 if by land, 2 if by sea”.
“Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free.” seems to me to be referring to Paul Reveres ride warning of the British.  If this is the case, we are looking at either Lexington MA or Boston MA where the actual church he signalled from still stands.
simply my opinion however…

That fountain was installed in the 1990’s. Prior to that, the fountain in the middle of Copley was a round one with a single jet in the middle. There is a pic on here of it, I believe.

Ech, that’s right. Darn.
“A beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact.”
–Thomas Huxley

Euhirudinea

Really?
If there are people in St. Louis, or Louisville, or Philadelphia looking for a casque, and you show them that there is not, and has never been a casque in their city, wouldn’t you agree that the puzzle has moved along for those searchers? Similarly, if you are using Verse 7 to search for a casque in New Orleans, or Verse 10 to search for a casque in San Francisco, or Verse 5 to search for a casque in Charleston, and you are shown that you are using the wrong verse, wouldn’t those also be examples of “moving the puzzle along”? The puzzle is moving along, and we are, IMO, getting closer to understanding how it was supposed to work. This despite the fact that we have not dug up a casque in over 14 years. Solving for Step 5 is one of the best gauges to be sure, but it is far from the only one.
There is a casque in Boston. You will need Image 11 and Verse 3, and a whole lot of other information to find it. There, Back on topic.

Really?
in that, while we can suspect there is no casque in ST.Louis, Louisville or Philadelphia, someone finding a casque there would prove the theory wrong, don’t you agree? yet so in reality although you really really want to believe that we know the cities and image/verse combinations. (and I agree with you) We don’t really know, because the moment that someone finds a casque using a different city or verse combo.(however unlikely) they would show not only did we not make progress by thinking and sharing those things, we actually moved things backwards…. so you see the only gauge is finding a casque.

Unknown

Unknown:
so you see the only gauge is finding a casque.

If that were true, knowledgeable people would still be looking for these things in Philadelphia. There are valid and perfectly logical reasons why they don’t, even if you refuse to acknowledge it Matt.

Euhirudinea

If that were true, knowledgeable people would still be looking for these things in Philadelphia. There are valid and perfectly logical reasons why they don’t, even if you refuse to acknowledge it Matt.

to simply refute that I point you to the current batch of Facebook Posts.
seems Philadelphia, New Jersey and Delaware are still in the running.

delaware? lmao. delaware prob needs one tbh.

My trip to Boston last week did not result in any revelations, but I did get to see plenty of things in person that I had been wanting to, including the Italian North End (with Paul Revere’s house, the Old North Church, etc.), the BPL (beautiful!), the Park Plaza Castle, Boston Commons and Boston Public Garden, and the Hatch Band Shell. I did not get to visit Harvard, Bunker Hill, MIT, or Old Ironsides. Nor did I get to travel the Freedom Trail or do any of a dozen other things I wanted to do. D!*#& conference…
My photos are posted here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy
Earlier there was some doubt about whether V3 really contained references to Boston. Remember that the connection was made because of some possible references to the familiar poem “Paul Revere’s Ride” by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. This poem contains references to midnight, lamplight, freedom, etc., hence the theory. But why “
twelfth hour
” if it was midnight rather than noon? And why Italy? Further down in the poem we see…
It was
twelve
by the village clock
When he crossed the bridge into Medford town.
…
It was one by the village clock,
When he galloped into Lexington.
…
It was two by the village clock,
When he came to the bridge in Concord town.
So “twelve” actually does appear in the poem, and V3 could be read to refer to a specific place: Medford, which is where Paul Revere found himself at at the twelfth hour, according to Longfellow. Medford, incidentally, is in Middlesex County (the
Middle section
?). What about a P for this V? Many favor P11, which is evidently the Italian P, despite our girl’s Celtic look. The majority of Medford’s population consists of Italian-American families, and every other building in the North End of Boston is now an Italian restaurant, despite the area’s very British history. I have no problem linking Italy with this area.

Glossiphoniidae

After all, I can only confirm the poem was on the sundial, but not that the sundial was there in 1980 or that BP knew about it if it wasn’t.

Whoa.

There’s one pick with just the two panels.  Thucy on the left and Xeno on the right.
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/127599 … 1054LBBPfM
Thucydides is the second from the top, in the middle section, just above the tiny window.

Thanks Boogieman, i found it. I am a little confused about 5 steps in his direction, if we walk in thucydides direction we are going south….towards ….nothing that we have talked about thus far. Could it mean if he is not north of xenophon we are to take 5 steps in the opposite direction…heading north?

5 walking steps won’t bring us anywhere….probably not even to the front door of the library. The library building is surrounded by steps, I’m not sure how many from the sidewalk to the building though. If you took 5 steps north of Thucy and xeno and then put your back to tthe library steps you would be facing Trinity Church, you would also be facing the water fountain (new fountain, still looking for a water feature there prior to the book being written).

Trohn

I still like the Copley Square location…. take a walking tour as you had planned and see what
you discover….
A different interpretation (not necessarily correct)
-The finish of the Olympic marathons ended in the Coliseum
(one lap around the stadium)
-Copley Sqaure is the finish line of the most famous American
Marathon.

I like this idea trohn……The Marathon route IS the coliseum……the metal walls are the buildings lining the route?

I’m not sure when those were put in shecrab….over the past 10 years there has been so much construction in the city it’s hard to keep up…..and 25 years ago I have hardly any clue what was where ….I was only about 8 lol
I’ll ask around at work today about the baseball fields on storrow and about what was at copley before the new park and hopefully someone there will know something.

Ok I think I found the coliseum………in 1869 a temporary coliseum was built for the peace jubilee on dartmouth street in copley square. I don’t know yet if it’s walls were metal or not.

Hold it….there’s something else to consider here.
First, if the park wasn’t suitable for burying something in in 1982, then maybe that’s not what BP did…maybe, just maybe, he meant something else by those words.
Let’s try this:
If you stand between the BPL and Trinity Church, you stand in Copley Square. On the East side of the square is Clarendon Street, and on the West side is Dartmouth Street. Both these streets run N-S.
If you ‘take five steps in the area of his direction’ you must take “five steps” NORTH.
What if those “steps” were streets?
There are five streets North.
Five full city blocks.
Face the water
–and you face North.
These streets are, starting in order from Copley Square and going North:
1.) Boylston Street
2.) Newbury St.
3.) Commonwealth Ave.
4.) Marlborough St.
5.) Beacon Street.
The next street is BACK STREET. I remember a post on here about this…what if it meant Your “Back” to the Stairs–well, there are stairs to the Esplanade. Pedestrian overpasses. Get past Back Street and you are in the Charles River Reservation, 17 miles of parkland along the river.
How about “those who pass the Coliseum” meaning “those roads” that pass the Coliseum–the Coliseum either referring to Harvard stadium, Fenway Park, or another athletic venue?
And “in the middle section” might refer to the Middle Charles Basin area of the Reservation. (there’s an Upper and Lower basin as well.) The Middle Basin of the Reservation is the largest open space…here’s a quote from their brochure:
The Middle Basin is a zone of transition from urban and formal to rural and natural. Parkways lining the Charles River Basin separate it from contiguous open spaces. The largest open space is between the
Harvard University athletic fields
on the south and Mt. Auburn and Cambridge cemeteries on the north. Together, these areas form a critical oasis for migrating birds.
note that it mentions migrating birds…maybe
that’s
why there’s a bird in the picture. It’s been a well-known birdwatching spot for many decades.
So, facing the water with your “Back” to the stairs, would put you in the Charles River Reservation.
The only other explanation I have for some of this is that there is an L St. and a K St. in Boston–I’m presuming there are other “letters” as well–these are all in South Boston. I have no idea if they are close enough to consider.
All in all, there are still possibilities for this casque–even if we never get out of Copley Square, which is the preferred location. We don’t know how much or what renovation was done there–maybe it wasn’t that much to erase the features of the square. If there is a fountain,or even if there
isn’t
–“face the water” still means “Face North.”  The Charles river hasn’t changed direction, we can count on that anyway.
If you can find a starting spot to count “steps” from, you will be okay–but that’s the real difficulty here.

I don’t have a map of the middle basin area to see if this would be a possibility, but maybe “Feel at home” is referring to the home base of a baseball diamond? Shecrab mentioned an athletic field near by, maybe it’s a baseball field.
A thought on “back to the stairs” and maybe this is obvious…but I’ve always read it to mean “turn your back to the stairs.” But maybe it means “Return or go to the stairs” Not sure if it would make a difference….
I look forward to reading about your discoveries on Saturday. Happy hunting!

I know I posted about the green cupola (the lantern) being the “green tower of lights” but I came across a photo this morning of that church at night. The cupola is not lit up but the other tower on the church (the one that matches the 211) is lit up at night by a green light. So either way that church has a green tower of lights. So far thi is what we have……
“If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon” Clearly this is pointing to the panels at the library.
“Take five steps
In the area of his direction” This is either literaly 5 walking steps which keeps us in the library or take the five steps (stairs), either five actual stairs in or in front of the library, or 5 steps meaning blocks heading north to storrow drive. Or could Thucydides or Xenophon be pointing in one of these panels in the direction we are suppose to go?
“A green tower of lights” Obviously the Old South Church which sits north across the street from the library.
“In the middle section” unknown
“Near those
Who pass the coliseum” Coliseum could be the old peace jubilee building, the baseball fields on storrow drive, it could just mean the location is NEAR fenway park. MIT, BU and Harvard all used to have buildings in Copley Square, did any of them have a coliseum?
“With metal walls” unknown
“Face the water” Face the fountain in the library courtyard, face the fountain in Copley Square, face the water on Storrow drive.
“Your back to the stairs” Keep your back to the stairs at or in the library, keep your back to any other stairs that may be in Copley Square, Stairs on Back Street.
“Feel at home” Feel around at home plate at the baseball field on Storrow drive, make yourself at home and sit somewhere in library or in Copley Square, or some other unknown thing that means “home”
“All the letters
Are here to see” Corespondence letters at the library, engravings on the buildings?
“Eighteenth day
Twelefth hour” This part of the verse could simply mean Boston, or it could be something more specific like William Dawes being a member of the Old South Church or something else having to do with Paul Revere.
“Lit by lamplight” Another Revere/Dawes clue or the lamplights in Copley Square.
“In truth, be free” Is there a statue with justice scales in Copley area? The library engraving “Free to all” or some other unknown.
In image 11 most everything points to Trinity Church across the street from the library and the Old South Church. One thing from Old south church is in the image (possibly 2) and one thing from the library are in the image.
So simple but still so complicated.

boogieman

Nice stuff Insatiable.   😮 Trying to take this out of Copley Square was definitley taking us in the wrong direction.  With your observations, you have saved us all from further chasing our own tails.  I have seen some similarities but didn’t put it together like you did.
One problem.  The Square is not the same as it was in 1982.  From Wikipedia:
In 1983 to address public dissatisfaction with the lack of greenery and sightlines, the Copley Square Centennial Committee was formed. A series of public meetings and seminars established design criteria for a new park. A national design competition was held in 1989 and the current design was selected. In 1991 the new Copley Square Park was dedicated.
All of this had been discussed here before, but now we know the casque was buried there.  Well, some of us believe it’s was.
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
Impossible to know what these lines mean without knowing the changes that were made.  That is the next challange.

This is not new (for this discussion) but may be useful at this juncture…
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084855/
A nice overview of Copley Square at the point in time that we need!

Hi Trohn, I thought that movie was filmed in South Boston? Does it also have scenes in Copley Square? Still a great idea, there must be something that was filmed in Copley around that time if this one wasn’t.

These perhaps?
http://www.mass.gov/dcr/parks/metroboston/ebersol.htm
They were restored in 2006 and reopened–I have no idea when they were initially put in.  Check out the photos–interesting.
They are located on Storrow Dr.

Soemthing just occurred to me:
the verse says “IF Thucydides is north of Xenophon, take 5 steps in the area of
his
direction.”
If Thucydides is NORTH of Xenophon, then Xenophon is SOUTH of Thucydides. So what if “his” direction refers to Xenophon, not Thucydides?  In other words, we’re going in exactly the opposite direction we should?  Instead of going NORTH, we should be ‘taking five steps SOUTH’???
The reason this just occurred to me is because of the link that Trohn just posted to the film The Verdict, which was shot in South Boston–where ALL THE LETTERS ARE THERE TO SEE. The letters, of course, being the street names: H st., K st., etc….
Perhaps we’re all off by a compass point–and we should be searching around Columbus Park, Dorchester Heights, or maybe Marine Park? You can face the water there, also: Boston Harbor or Dorchester Bay.
Another thing I was pondering last evening: I went over the solution to Cleveland’s casque, since this is very near where I live. There are a lot of pictures of the Greek garden in the Cleveland Cultural Gardens on line. I noticed something interesting about the verse: the verse does indeed point to the exact place the casque was found, but it’s OUT OF ORDER. You don’t start at the first line and go to the next and then the next. It’s all jumbled. It talks of the ‘seven steps up’ after it talks of the stones, and the columns–and to find that casque you’d have to FIRST find the columns, THEN take 7 steps up, then Count the stones and bricks. The lines of the verse do not go in order that way.
I don’t know Chicago’s solution as well, and there isn’t as much information on it on line, so I couldn’t compare it. But the Cleveland one is pretty fairly documented, and the park is well-photographed. The other thing that occurred to me was that it was a public garden, but the casque was pretty well off the beaten path IN that garden–so anywhere a casque is going to be is going to be off the path enough that (I hope) construction or refurbishment isn’t going to affect it as much. I know BP thought these would be solved soon–and they weren’t, and 30 years has gone by here, but that casque was still in Cleveland!
I have hope here about Boston. I think we might be in the wrong place–because there are elements of this verse that just don’t match with anything we can find. I mean, not much of anything. A “temporary” coliseum might not be something to use as a landmark–I’d think that BP would have found something more permanent.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts here.

Good thoughts shecrab. If “all the letters” means the alphabet streets in southie that would also be close by the Black Falcon terminal that trohn mentioned. I wonder if anything in the image or verse would match up with things in southie too, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head. One more thing about alphabet streets…..the streets in Boston also go in order…. from east to west ….Arlington, Berkley, Claredon, Dartmouth, Exeter, Fairfield, Glouster, Hereford.

All of those streets run from north to south starting at Storrow drive, crossing over Commonwealth ave. and ending on Boylston st. The middle would be Dartmouth Street where it intersects with Commonwealth ave.

Even though all of these are great ideas I am still convinced its in Copley Square.
To many things in the image line up. I’m not sure that all of those elements would match up to somewhere else all within the same city block….in Boston or elsewhere. 90% of what is in the image and in the verse can be found in Copley…..and that is without even going there. I’m trying really hard to have an open mind on this but with so much pointing to one spot it’s hard to think of other places. The only 2 things that can’t be matched to the area are the bird and the line in the verse that talks about the coliseum and metal walls.

Looking at Chicago’s and Cleveland’s solutions shows that an item in the image was atleast a mile away from where the casque was buried, the water tower in Chicago and the Terminal Tower in Cleveland……maybe these two landmarks were used just to point you to that city, maybe there is a “Tower” theme going on. If it’s a tower theme and the tower is atleast a mile from the casque then the green tower in Boston could work the same way, but that of course would mean that the casque is not in Copley Square. If towers are not a theme and something in the verse could be atleast a mile away then Fenway Park could definitely be the coliseum with metal walls about a mile from Copley Square.

Black Falcon Street
(and terminal)  is in South Boston where all the “letter” streets are. I think this points BIG TIME to the area. As much as I liked the Copley Square stuff this really makes me think that we DO have the wrong area.

shecrab

Black Falcon Street
(and terminal)  is in South Boston where all the “letter” streets are. I think this points BIG TIME to the area. As much as I liked the Copley Square stuff this really makes me think that we DO have the wrong area.

The expo center is close by there, maybe that could be considered a coliseum? I’m not sure if it’s walls are metal.

shecrab

Black Falcon Street
(and terminal)  is in South Boston where all the “letter” streets are. I think this points BIG TIME to the area. As much as I liked the Copley Square stuff this really makes me think that we DO have the wrong area.

The only downside to this is that I don’t believe there is anything having to do with Paul Revere in Southie……..but the Paul Revere verse could only be pointing to the right city.

My boyfriend, who grew up in Southie, says there is something called “Golden Gate Stairs” and if you had your back to them you would be facing the water…..you cannot see black falcon terminal from there though. Neither one of us can think of any “green tower of lights” in the area.
South Boston also has a huge park and Castle Island is a well known historical spot.

I still like the Copley Square location…. take a walking tour as you had planned and see what
you discover….
A different interpretation (not necessarily correct)
-The finish of the Olympic marathons ended in the Coliseum
(one lap around the stadium)
-Copley Sqaure is the finish line of the most famous American
Marathon.

hmmm….
could it be this simple….
http://varacalli.com/ShowPicture.html?i … ures/misc/
(green lights in the middle section)  tower??
http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/im … tyard2.jpg
the coliseum??
Inside the courtyard, one could orient themselves to have Thucydides be North of Xenophone
(standing on the inside of the wall where the frieze is)
hmm….

Let’s hope it was not in the library courtyard, trohn. The entire courtyard was torn apart and put back together after the 80’s.

If it’s in the Library courtyard, you don’t account for the stairs, facing the water, the metal walls, the Paul Revere reference, or ‘feel at home.’

I still feel strongly about Trinity Church….the verse doesn’t point there, only to the area, but image 11 has ALOT pointing to Trinity Church.

Here’s
ameliaelf’s
webshot photos of Copley Square from Feb. 05′.  Insatiable, this will show you that we’ve scoured this area before and to me, the match-ups you have made with the images confirms the area.  I was too busy trying to find the castle, you came up with alot more.  (notice in these pics the Thucy is decidedly south of Xeno)
http://community.webshots.com/user/ameliaelf

insatiable

My boyfriend, who grew up in Southie, says there is something called “Golden Gate Stairs” and if you had your back to them you would be facing the water…..you cannot see black falcon terminal from there though. Neither one of us can think of any “green tower of lights” in the area.
South Boston also has a huge park and Castle Island is a well known historical spot.

It’s the Golden Stairs….and here’s a quote about it from Sen. Ted Kennedy…it’s also a park now.
am reminded of this awesome responsibility each time I gaze from the windows of my office in Boston. I can see the
Golden Stairs from Boston Harbor
where all eight of my great grandparents set foot on this great land for the first time. They walked up to Boston’s Immigration Hall on their way to a better life for themselves and their families.
http://www.davidcoffin.com/enrichment_programs/bostonbysea.html
Here’s a pic:
So if you have your back to the stairs, you ARE facing the water—Boston Harbor.

Thank you for those boogieman
It looks like Xenophon is in the second panel from the left, I didn’t see thucydides….is it in one of those pictures and I missed it? Do you know what panel thucydides is on?

the Massachusetts State House is on Beacon Street ( i think
) and the State Library (all the letters) is inside of it. Is boston common right in front of it?
i was thinking lamplight-beacon. is there anything about sojourner truth in boston common? where are the bells located that play the 1812 overture?
i saw there was a jean b. waldstein park at 1812 beacon street but couldn’t find any information on it. could there be a plaque or something for sojourner truth?
my book still hasn’t gotten here! it’s taking forever!

slappybuns

where are the bells located that play the 1812 overture?

Slappy, the Boston Pops play the 1812 overture on July 4th every year at the Hatch Shell.  For references see these links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1812_Overture#Performance_venues
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/tchaikov/1812.html
The Hatch Shell is along the Charles River Esplanade.
http://www.hatchshell.com/

thank you jambone!
that esplanade is separated into lower, middle and upper sections, and everything anyone has mentioned seems to be right along side of it.
so is everyone thinking that the hatch shell is the coliseum?
i saw there are 2 baseball fields in boston common for “home”

I don’t think the Hatch qualifies as a coliseum. A coliseum is an arena for sports. This music venue doesn’t look anything like the Roman Coliseum or any other one I’ve ever seen.
I posted the idea about the “middle section” of the Charles River Esplanade/Reservation a while back, but there weren’t any other markers in that area that I could find.

I took a quick look at the map posted and noticed a “Back Street”.  Could this correspond with the line “Your back to the stairs.”?  Hmmm..  Someone in the area, please scope the area!
ABQRAM

another thought…
Perhaps “his” means “historic.”  He used single letters in the Clevland M, B, and L.  Why not a shorter word that could be used to clue us in the wrong direction on purpose?  I only thought of this because of talk of schools, and my school used three letter codes for class descriptions. HIS was the designation for History classes.
I that theory was correct, it should be in the direction of “the history building” if we are talking about a college campus.  It could also mean “a historic building” or “where something historic happened”
LASTLY:
Remember my suggestion of “five steps” being stops on the T.  MAYBE thinking “Five Stops along the freedom trail.”

Unknown

Unknown:
I guess any verse or riddle can be ambiguous by definition.  But here the subject of the first four lines is obviously Thucydides.
…
edit: waiting for my crash course on grammer.

With pleasure. The possessive pronoun “his” requires a male antecedent, and there are two options: T and X. Note that if we were to replace either name with a female name, it would be equally “obvious” for “his” to refer to T or to X. For example:
If Thucydides is
North of Cleopatra
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
Here, everyone would agree “his” refers to T.
If Cleopatra is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
Here, everyone would agree “his” refers to X.
See what I mean? We can’t tell which (if either) of T or X is the antecedent. So I vote neither of them.

While suggesting alternate meanings and “double meanings”:
The lines:
“Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour”
Perhaps a clue to direction as well as a clue to placing this in Boston.  It seems late in the verse to be a simple “hey in case you didn’t guess this is in Boston.”  I’m not sure how I want to interpret “eighteenth day,”  However “twelfth hour” could mean simply “12 0’clock” before you say “duh” think about sitting with a friend and saying “look at 12 o’clock”  We use clock directions as slang for “look there” all the time in conversation without thinking of it.  It could mean from a certain place “look at 12 o’clock.”  ALSO, consider a clock face to be a compass, in which case it could be used as a metaphor for “North.”
I’m wondering if perhaps something besides Paul Rever’s ride took place on the 18th of a month.  If August 18th was important it could clue in a reference to the August theme.  Perhaps there is a plaque in a park somewhere with that date on it.  I found photos of plauqes in Boston but so far no hits on this train of thought.
To give a clue as to what I am thinking, look at the lines in verse 12:
“Fence and fixture
Central too”
It clued in that half way between the fence post and the electrical picture was where it was buried.  Although I have no clue if this is really a good theory, I have no clue where such a plaque might be, I have no clue what park, etc…. I’m trying to take guess at things I have no yet seen suggested, no matter how out there my theories might be in the hope that something sticks with something else.

I obviously agree with Forrest:
“His” is PROBABLY neither.  My theory may be wrong, and potentially too vauge, but it seems with current knowledge just as likely as either T or X.
I think in riddles that perhaps proper grammar as used in the lesson Forrest just gave isn’t always needed.  I think it would pain any author to use immpropper grammar, BP might have used something that didn’t follow the rules to throw us off a little.  Proper grammar would never allow “L sits and left” [from verse 12] to mean “lincoln” it’s more like current text message use.  Yet in riddle talk it fits just fine.

Forrest:
I really like the way you bounce back quick ideas on everything, so here’s another one for your consideration [and really everyone else of course].
What if T and X are being used at metaphors for something else?  [I do know I like to throw the word “metaphor” out on EVERYTHING, but I hope to be right on one of these]
Perhaps insight into their lives will lead to something.  I never learned about either man in school, so my only source is wikipedia.  Correct me where I misunderstand…
Thucydides was a historian.  Xenophon was a political philosopher.
I don’t know what to go on…  my mind is reeling in too many directions.  However, there may be something historic north of something related to politics.  Perhaps a building used by the historical society?  Perhaps city hall?  Perhaps Faneuil Hall?  I like the later, and may relate better.  Quincy Market has those pillars that in my opinion “look Greek”.
So Forrest, bounce some ideas back and I’ll get my mind turning some more.  I obviously can’t always be right by suggesting everything is a metaphor, but perhaps one of my ideas will become helpful.
–Ringo

A green tower of lights, hmm… since we’re all looking for a “green” tower… i thought about looking for a different meaning for green.  And Green is the color of Islam.  So maybe there is a Islamic Tower, or a Mosque.  Or something of that nature.  I tried google street view for Boston, it’s very helpful!  Check it out!
-regulus

Ok…  LONG SHOT…  Just trying to think VERY outside the box:
What if the phrase “A green tower of lights” were two separate phrases hidden in one line???
It COULD [like I said long shot] mean:
Something Green & A Tower of Lights
Two object.  Let me run with this for a moment.  “Tower” could be play on words for “something large” or “Monster” as in “Green Monster”.  Fenway’s wall has been known as “The Green Monster” long before the official mascot became “Wally”.
The Stadium lights could be considered “A Tower of lights”  ALSO, the Citco sign outside the park could be called “A Tower of lights”.  It was around the that these were buried that the Citco sign became a matter of public controversey.  Citco wanted to remove it because of the cost of upkeep, it was attempted to get it put on the national registry of protected landmarks, which as far as I know never happened, although a local historical society managed to save it at the time.  It is just as much a landmark of Boston as any building would be.
Farther down in the verse “coliseum” could be a reference to Fenway.  Fenway doesn’t look like a coliseum, but if “arena” or “ball park” could be substituted for that word it might work.
Does anyone else here do a form of crossword known as “cryptic crosswords” this type of word play I’m trying to use here is similar to clues in a cryptic.
I’ld rather throw this out and have it shot down than not share and have it be right.  Fenway is certainly not close to Copley, but it seems like landmarks in the previous finds were not always right near the location.

The following line “In the Middle Section” could be something like:
Outside the arena, middle section of the wall” could be a starting point to start walking from.  It seems late in the verse to be a starting point.  A thinking point though.
–Ringo

Clue on the Question of T and X
Read this from 18th Century English writer Horace Walpole:
“The next Augustan age will dawn on the
other side of the Atlantic. There will, perhaps, be a Thucydides at
Boston, a Xenophon at New York, and, in time, a Virgil at Mexico, and a
Newton at Peru.”
Hmmm..  Boston is North of NY.  These lines could MERELY be telling us to start in Boston?
**Entire Text of Walpole can be found at Project Gutenberg ***
Here is the link:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12074/12074-8.txt

The Horace Walpole text has been discussed at length.  As well as Fenway.  Wow you are quick.  It took us a while to come up with those.
Besides the fact that those Greek names are on the facade of Boston Public Library, HP’s text would actually make better sense because on that wall, Thucy is south of Xeno.  Where it loses me is, you would still have to find a Thucydides somewhere in Boston in order to
take five steps in his direction
.  Maybe you can read it differently

Steps could have multiple meanings.  The first meaning is going to be “paces” but I have already seen others to have thought of “stairs”.
Being a city it could mean “streets,” “blocks,” or “stops” [as in the T]  Fenway is on the Greenline as is Copley to use my T theory.  However, They are only two stops away from each other. I myself am not totaly convinced the reference is to the outside of the building, but perhaps to artwork in the building.  I also wonder if perhaps there is more than one place where the two names are within the city.
Words can often have two dictionary meanings, but in a quest of this sort a metaphorical meaning MAY be just as valid.
{*Does anyone remember the old computer game Zork??  In the second Zork there was a room described as having “oddly shaped angles” and that was all you knew….  It felt like a maze but after the game kept saying “At this rate you’ll never get to the first base” I eventually figured out that I was supposed to run in a circle, the “odd angles” were a baseball diamond.  *}
I’m trying to use some strange logic, and without standing there I can’t let my mind wander as much as I would like.  I wish still lived in NH I’ld just hop in my car tomorrow after work and walk around the BPL.
–Ringo

Ringo – I like the way you think. I’m addicted to cryptic crosswords, and the thought did cross my mind once or twice, but little came of it. But that may say more about my mind than about your idea. I’m in the camp that thinks “Small of scale” is a reference to fish, and that “Cast in copper” means “on the back of a penny.” It does help to be open to different interpretations. These
are
riddles, after all.

Forrest:
I’m glad you like my thinking, and I like the examples you just used.  Riddles are an interesting form of word game, and are nearly as old as language itself.  Stephen King describes a riddle game in The Dark Tower similar to the same one used by Tolkien in the Hobbit.  I seem to remember the Canturbury Tales containing riddles, and you can keep going backward to the Greeks with the Sphinx.  And Riddles are ALWAYS obvious in hindsight.  Remember there is a difference between a riddle and a joke:  A riddle uses logic.
Once it’s solved many people will groan.  I’ve been searching for photos online of the Fenway area, but I can’t find any of the angle I’m looking for.  I just need to get down there on my own…  Luckily it’s not an unreasonable drive for me, just no time in the forseeable future, nor money to put in the gas tank.

Unknown

Unknown:
Once it’s solved many people will groan.

Indeed. I groaned when someone pointed out the “obvious” (in hindsight) fact that “compass” in V8 referred to the “North Point Lighthouse” because (wait for it) compasses “point north.” BP had an evil sense of humor.
There is also the SELOY acrostic, which seems a little out of place in this hunt but of undeniable importance. Perhaps there are other instances of wordplay we haven’t discovered yet.

Forrest:
SELOY acrostic

Oh, sorry:
S
ails pass by night
E
ven in darkness
L
ike moonlight in teardrops
O
ver the tall grass
Y
ears pass, rain falls.
St. Augustine’s Fountain of Youth Park has been many hunters’ top pick for the V9 casque for years now, and recently an employee of the FOY park pointed out that the last 5 lines in V9 spell out “SELOY,” which is the name of the Native American village once on the site. This fact was in brochures and plaques at the time BP was burying his casques, and he would have seen it.

Maybe we should return to shecrab’s recent post on Harvard as a possibility for the V3 casque.
What Harvard has going for it:
“In truth be free”: Harvard’s motto (or at least its crest) is “VERITAS.”
“all the letters”: Greek organizations? Men of letters? Something more literal on campus? All of the above?
“middle section”: Harvard is located in MIDDLESEX COUNTY, Massachusetts.
Harvard Lampoon is based there.
Is there a green tower of some sort there?

Unknown

Unknown:
From FB- “In the area of his direction” is grammatically ambiguous – who is “he”? Xenophon? Thucydides? I move “neither,” because if BP meant T or X it would have been clear from the verse’s composition.
I’ll suggest we take this discussion to the V3 board

.
I guess any verse or riddle can be ambiguous by definition.  But here the subject of the first four lines is obviously Thucydides.
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
or,
If HE is north of Xenophon, take five steps in Thucydides direction
.  We can cut it up differently and say
If Thucydides is north of Xenophon, take five steps.
Then,
In the area of his direction, a green tower of lights
.
Either way, Mr T is still the subject, no?
edit: waiting for my crash course on grammer.

boogieman

The last thought “In the area of his direction, a green tower of lights”
is not a sentence or a complete thought; it is not likely broken up this way.
More inclined to have the first four lines act as one.

Hi all… I am new here too, trying to get caught up. I don’t actually have a copy of the book yet… I’m just reading all the posts and getting my mind wrapped around it all.
I also live in Boston and would love to help out with groundwork! : ) This is going to be a toughie, because it is hard to hide anything in this city. I letterbox a lot and have been trying to come up with a place in Boston Proper to hide an urban box and it’s been HARD!
I will try to get caught up over the next few days. AmeliaElf, if you’d ever like to get together and search as a team, let me know!!

All the letters
Are here to see
These two lines also work with the above image.  In Fenway Park, when a home run is hit, it is celebrated with the expression “See It Go!”, since the large iconic CITGO sign sits just beyond the left side of the outfield.  “C”-IT-GO.  I believe this is a clue that we must be able to stand in a spot where we can see ALL the letters to this sign in the distance.  It turns out, this is possible from this particular spot.  Consider that this is now a perfect scenario for pretending to hit a home run, “See It Go!” sign included.
snip >
This is a huge example of oh I see something that is cool so it must be part of the solution. So I will come up with a convoluted theory that in reality serves to only take us farther from the casque… This seriously makes absolutely no sense with these two lines.
Especially when right accross the street at Mothers rest park, you can stand at the bottom of a staircase and look accross the water at a garden well labeld with section A, Section B, Section C….

I’m afraid I wasn’t able to get to take pictures this weekend. I stupidly procrastinated and then we had a snowstorm on Monday, so the places I wanted to shoot were covered. I will do it this week, though… my daughter is out of town and I’ll have free time after work.
Sorry…
Amy

Hi everyone, I’m Ben, AmeliaElf’s friend and roommate. We spent the weekend in Boston trying to find locations that could possibly be described in verse 3 or depicted in either image 3 or 11. We did not find much worth talking about, but we did take a lot of pictures. You can see them here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/bengb007
We focused on locations that have to do with Paul Revere (because of the Revere reference in verse 3), so we spent a lot of time in the North End. Paul Revere Mall was interesting because it looked a little bit like a coliseum and on the walls were metal plaques (coliseum with metal walls)…
We would gladly go back to Boston to take more pictures, but unless we had new clues, we wouldn’t know where to go next.
-B

This is true, although I think there are some interesting correspondences in the Hatch Shell area. I tracked down a photo of Tobin standing next to it…
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
It seems to me that you could stand facing the water, your back to the stairs of the Hatch Shell, and see Tobin.
Regarding the last line, there are a couple of possible sources for “In truth, be free”, one being the “Ode on Washington’s Birthday”:
http://memory.loc.gov/rbc/amss/as1/as109860/001q.gif
Birthday / hatching…?
The inscription on the statue has the name of “Truman” / “true man”.
I’ve previously wondered if this picture might be hinting at the idea of lifting a tile, or a slab. There seems to be a set of paving stones in front of Tobin. I guess it’s unlikely that Byron Preiss could have buried the box under one of these, but who knows.
There’s also stuff like this howitzer which is used for the 1812 concert:
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM8Z … _Boston_MA
I recently got in contact with someone who works on the Esplanade, and he’s kindly agreed to take some photos…
(He also pointed out that Image 11 reminded him of the
Mapparium
.)

It is just my opinion…but I still believe the Green Tower of Lights to be the Hancock building.

wow,
where the #Q$%# do we dig then?
come on.

Thanks for the welcome Fox and Blight.  Trover commiseration is great if we lock onto a new challenge.  I looked over the posts and agree with the BPL assessment.  Sounds promising and I will do what I can to help and perhaps get this forum active again.  Prior to reading the posts, I thought perhaps Georgia for this P and V pairing.  References to ATHENS (Thucydides and Xenophon) ROME (coliseum) inputting Georgia Towers to the net reveals Helen where Oktoberfest and a large German contingent reside.  Alas, it proved unfruitful.  Glad to join the hunt for now and will be working hard for the next few months.

In trying to answer my own question, it looks to me that the burial grounds are adjacent to the common.  I found this site that shows the backside of the burial ground:  http://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston2004/Jul-03.asp  Look at the wall:  all the
letters
for you to see!  And it seems to me that it is pretty secluded.  Further examination of the common reveals a baseball park nearby.  Loph, what do you think?
ABQRAM

In trying to answer my own question, it looks to me that the burial grounds are adjacent to the common.  I found this site that shows the backside of the burial ground:  http://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston2004/Jul-03.asp  Look at the wall:  all the letters for you to see!  And it seems to me that it is pretty secluded.  Further examination of the common reveals a baseball park nearby.  Loph, what do you think?
ABQRAM

Although those words are not on the plaque, the name of the book where that quote is from, is on the plaque – “The Prophet.” Interesting.
Could “In truth, be free” be another quote from an obscure work of literature? The plaque was created in 1977, right around the time that BP could have been researching the area for clues. Perhaps he saw a newspaper article about the plaque’s dedication, and decided to take a quote from The Prophet?
Also, “feel at home” could refer to home plate and baseball, in addition to the “home” of the Red Sox as mentioned by WR.

robp, I believe there is a little more to it than what robh provided but I think he is on the right trail.  If we were to use this quote by Homer……Thucydides (Boston) IS north of Xenophon (NY).  So, where does that leave us?  Does anyone know what is directly between Boston & NY?  I still find it hard to discount the last lines of the verse leading to Boston.  It seems soooo obvious.

ooops, wasnt Homer  :-X

hmmmm  😮 …can anyone guess where our good friend Horace Mann was born?…….
http://oasis.harvard.edu/html/gra00039.html

The quote is from “Letter to Horace Mann”

erexere

Five steps in an area seems like its designed to meet an important visual condition either preceeding or after the five steps are taken, if actual foot paces are to be explored.  The direction of these steps don’t seem to be indicated whatsoever.

The five steps line sounds like the digging directions to this verse like, “giant step, in the center of four, beneath the tenth stone”
in the other verses.

I’m willing to consider that the locations are limited with respect to precision. I think he must have eyeballed some relative symmetry in surroundings or counted paces or used whatever means made the most immediate sense for each specific location.  The first two discoveries resulted in a lack of precision.  Its all relative to an extent depending on factors like Preiss’ height or stride and whatever else could throw tuings off…earthquakes, tsunamis, hooligans, quicksand…etc.

lit by lamp light,could have 2 meanings,at about 5:10 starts the
discussion of street lighting on comm,@ 5:40 laffer says it was
a big deal,a switch from gas to electric again,during the bicentennial
maybe there is a marker,stating that event
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4RRL0B5 … grTIi3xrEZ
Late 1970s early 1980s: A major MBTA Project – the Southwest Corridor Project – gets underway to replace the existing overhead orange line along Washington Street. This project involves streets from the Back Bay to Jamaica Plain. The Federal Government, under the Urban Systems Project, gets involved with the reconstruction of several major thoroughfares in the City during this time period. Streets like Blue Hill Ave, Tremont Street, and Columbus Ave are totally reconstructed with new roads, sidewalks, and lighting
http://www.cityofboston.gov/publicworks … istory.asp
more about the lighting, the project was called the Diamond Necklace
on the pdf counter-pgs 1,68,72
http://lightboston.org/diamondnecklace.pdf

I agree with you MF. I will give BP a little leeway in finding unique hiding places–but all in all, I think his methods for
locating
a burial site were probably consistent. I just have a little trouble believing that you start at a single point and TRACK your way to the casque. Yes, there is a single point in each image that pinpoints its city location. At least. But there isn’t in the verses. We can find tons of iconic imagery. Shoot–he even GAVE us the latitudes and longitudes in those images! Just from that alone I can’t imagine why any alternate locations are even being considered for some of these!
But the verses–those are our bane. He was tricky sometimes, he didn’t follow a single verse-method at ALL, and he threw in a bunch of stuff that may or may NOT have anything whatsoever to do with the solution. With the verses, he wasn’t consistent. Some have specifics, some don’t. THe verses were obviously cobbled together at the locations or soon after visiting the sites–but the images were ALL DONE at the same time, allowing Palencar to be a lot more consistent in his methods.

forest_blight

I know some of this has been pointed out before, but the names Xenophon and Thucydides have been etched elsewhere. BPL is one place, but two others are:
1. Stone tablets at the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland (yes, that garden!).
2. The old San Francisco Public Library, now the Asian Art Museum (NE corner of Larkin and Fulton).

I don’t remember this. I just did a forum search and nothing shows up. Were there any photos posted of the old library?

No, but I found lists online of the names that are chiseled in the tablets. If you view the building from Google street view and look up, the tablets are near the top of the facade. Search this thesis for “Xenophon” and you’ll see it.
http://cardinalscholar.bsu.edu/bitstrea … 2_BODY.pdf
The same list can be found here (p. 23):
http://books.google.com/books?id=_5K_AA … &q&f=false

Durian

Another interesting parallel in the Boston image to other images is the use of the square and the triangle with the dots within. In the Boston puzzle they are a bit more embellished than in the SF puzzle, but they are still essentially USGS topographical map symbols.
In Boston it’s interesting to note that we have the square symbol presented on top of the triangle symbol. According to the USGS, this would be a monument (square) and a mountain, hill, or elevated point (the triangle). Sounds like it could be a reference to Bunker Hill (if my Thucydides thought is correct), or some other monument located on a hill. I find it interesting that in SF, the symbols may well be referring to objects seen in a line on the horizon, hence they are presented horizontally.

I am very interested in this idea. I looked up topo symbols and I don’t really see any that match. Can you share a link or image to what you see as similar?

https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMa … ymbols.pdf
This is the best usgs symbol legend you will find.
FWIW, I am a land surveyor and these symbols are in no way universal to land surveying or mapping. Every firm, municipality, city, town, state and local agency has its own adopted symbols and format of how plans are delivered and accepted. This is why almost every plan has a legend to explain the various symbols shown on that plan.

Unknown

Unknown:
This is why almost every plan has a legend to explain the various symbols shown on that plan.

So, what’s the problem? We just find the legend in the book and we are good to go. Of course, BP being BP, we will probably need a legend for the legend. But hey, it’s a puzzle.

I got a legend I am putting together for Erexere right now.

Euhirudinea

So, what’s the problem? We just find the legend in the book and we are good to go. Of course, BP being BP, we will probably need a legend for the legend. But hey, it’s a puzzle.

It seems the problem is that too many people are trying to be a legend rather than trying to find a legend in the book…

BINGO

It seems the problem is that too many people are trying to be a legend rather than trying to find a legend in the book…

Why bother looking when you can just “Pimp the Palencars” and get a twofer?

Near Those   Who pass the coliseum
MASS Pike runs right by Pru, Trinity, Hancock…
If the coliseum can be nailed down with some
certainty.  I liked Boston Garden, but doesn’t fit the
current area.
OR
could BP be referring to the Boston Marathon,
while the original olympic marathon ended in the
Athens Coliseum, the modern Boston Marathon
ends in Copley Park.
(so instead of ‘those’ referring to cars, ‘those’ could mean
the runners.  Runners are referred to as ‘passing’ the spectators.
The Boston Marathon has been around for over a hundred years.
http://www.bostonmarathon.org/BostonMar … seMaps.pdf

Let’s talk about these lines:
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
To me this is a strange arrangement of words in the second line. Normally if you were telling someone to go somewhere, it would say, “In the direction of his area”.
Without applying any particular location to this, what do you all think is the meaning of this?

The two ways I tend to read it are:
Find a statue and take five steps in his direction (and digg or continue on)
OR
Take five steps in the north area (north end)
In first interpretation it’s five of your steps, in the second, you could be taking five steps as part of some stairs or whatever.
Here’s a park in the north end where you can take 5 steps on stairs, charter street park
http://i.imgur.com/yTybALbr.jpg
edited to use link instead

Try the link for large images.
http://i.imgur.com/yTybALbr.jpg

I thought it may be a word riddle. Anagram of ‘there’, all letters are here.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8010&start=35

gManTexas

Without applying any particular location to this, what do you all think is the meaning of this?

Given Thucydides heavy use of cause and effect, the conditional structure itself must be a nod back to him. Could
his direction
not be referencing north or the location of his name but instead his direction as in his command? Thucydides was elected a strategoi and was given command of a fleet. Ultimately, his failure resulted in his exile.

Is the Charles Gate 2C’s area still worth inspecting with a probing rod? It seems like one of the strongest matches for where the casque could be hidden but when I visted today it was riddled with the holes made by other hunters. Is there a chance that people have just missed it? I know it took a number of attempts for the Chicago kids to actually dig up the casque despite being right in the general vicinity of it. My biggest concern with digging there is actually the abundance of heroin needles I saw there. There was even one inside the hole dug inside the notch between the two circles.

McGovern15

I know it took a number of attempts for the Chicago kids to actually dig up the casque despite being right in the general vicinity of it.

No, it took the Chicago kids getting a picture from Preiss to actually dig up the casque. The rules have changed since Preiss declared you had to bring him a casque, and even more so upon his death. Being in the general vicinity does nothing for you. If you don’t know precisely the eight-inch slice of dirt to be looking in, you are no closer than some guy digging in Timbuktu.

*liked*

Jsp, I totally understand.  I can’t contend with your in-person observations. Or maybe I can.  The site I’ve perso ally worked with in Corbett didn’t have those exact details I had hoped for.  After visiting three times I still didn’t understand the orientation problem.  I got way too focused on my compass and then shoehorned a spot that seemed like it fit.  The rock on which Ponce is standing is actually highly accurate to some parts but then other parts flip the perspective (exactly what happens when you make a carbon trace with the carbon flipped to the bottom of your pages.  Something tells me he did some good work to make some matches and he did some sloppy work on purpose and then used the artist to dial it up a notch.
Don’t underestimate the essentials that make a spot worth consideration.  Exact matching is hard to guarantee given the additional handling in the several step art process.  Use the verse to overcome the flaws in the image.

Unknown

Unknown:
In literally every other image, there’s at least one easily recognizable visual indication of either the city or something in it – a map, a sculpture, a landmark, a statue.

This didn’t fit as a recognizable visual indicator?
It looks very close to me.

Honestly…no, it didn’t. Not for me. It shares a shape, sort of, but in the image they’re half-circles and in real life one is a full circle and the other is three-quarters, and in the painting, the lower one has a pattern that isn’t on the real one. There’s certainly something of a resemblance, but it’s only a resemblance. I’m talking about something like the recognizable outline of the terminal building, or the water tower, or the fountain in the grecian cultural gardens. Or the Chrysler building gargoyle, etc etc. There just isn’t anything like that in image 11, not for Boston.
Suppose it’s 1983. A guy is standing in Copley Square with his copy of The Secret. He’s looking at the BPL and he’s noticing that the names Thucydides and Xenophon are indeed on the facade of it. How did he get there? What in the image brought him to that location where he’d see it?

jsp

Honestly…no, it didn’t. Not for me. It shares a shape, sort of, but in the image they’re half-circles and in real life one is a full circle and the other is three-quarters, and in the painting, the lower one has a pattern that isn’t on the real one. There’s certainly something of a resemblance, but it’s only a resemblance. I’m talking about something like the recognizable outline of the terminal building, or the water tower, or the fountain in the grecian cultural gardens. Or the Chrysler building gargoyle, etc etc. There just isn’t anything like that in image 11, not for Boston.
Suppose it’s 1983. A guy is standing in Copley Square with his copy of The Secret. He’s looking at the BPL and he’s noticing that the names Thucydides and Xenophon are indeed on the facade of it. How did he get there? What in the image brought him to that location where he’d see it?

Oh I see, a city confirmation visual.  You are correct on that.

Just another possible comfirmer to this site. Not sure how the wall looked 30 years ago though.

erexere

Emphatic claims have been made to say Boyle isn’t 5 blocks from BPL.  This online measuring stick says it is 5 blocks.

…yeah…although the direction is a problem. Still bet on the 2C though.
What makes me despair is people who are allegedly intrerested in this puzzle
visiting
the place, saying “nah”, and heading off again. The problem with this quest is that there have always been far more people willing to say “No, thats wrong” than “OK, let’s give it a try”.

Why is the direction a problem?
I’m having talks with a person about a healthy donation to improve the grounds at the 2C.  Next week, I’ll know if that will open the door to unfettered access on the site with a shovel.

erexere

Why is the direction a problem?
I’m having talks with a person about a healthy donation to improve the grounds at the 2C.  Next week, I’ll know if that will open the door to unfettered access on the site with a shovel.

who will do the digging?

Can’t say right now.  Looks like nobody from SA or her since there’s less and less interest in the site.  It looks like it could use some improvement, so there’s a chance the city will allow a contractor to trim and replant at some point.

erexere

Why is the direction a problem?

The two Cs are slightly south of the BPL.

WhiteRabbit

…yeah…although the direction is a problem. Still bet on the 2C though.
What makes me despair is people who are allegedly intrerested in this puzzle
visiting
the place, saying “nah”, and heading off again. The problem with this quest is that there have always been far more people willing to say “No, thats wrong” than “OK, let’s give it a try”.

I’ve visited it and I assure you I’m far more than allegedly interested in the puzzle. But here’s the thing: I’ve been there more than once. I’ve been to the Fenway Victory Gardens. I headed off again because there are no visual confirmers. There are some things which sort of maybe resemble stuff you might see either at that site or near that site, but nothing like what we saw in Chicago or Cleveland. The only exception I can think of is, as someone pointed out, the wall behind the woman looks kind of like the wall on the Pike, but it’s also a very simple design and could easily be a coincidence.
This is the problem I have with the site: You’d think there would be
something
. At least
one
element that is an exact visual match for something in the painting, something undeniable – not just the wall design but a clear representation of a statue, a sculpture, a plaque, a fountain,
something
. There isn’t. I realize that all of it is kind of encouraging when you’re looking at it on Google Maps but I assure you that when you’re actually standing there, it becomes much clearer that the site is just not a good fit. In literally every other image, there’s at least one easily recognizable visual indication of either the city or something in it – a map, a sculpture, a landmark, a statue. In this one there’s nothing that we’ve found.
This is why I haven’t dug: I just don’t believe the casque is there. Believe me when I say that I want more than anything for a casque to be in Boston, but I don’t think it’s at that site.

Good thoughts but drawing parallels doesn’t always get us where we need to go.
I’m a big fan of there being a lantern connection.

You like word plays too?! Here’s one:
All the letters — Are here to see
If you’re the guy that buried the cask and know where the place is then the place is “here”.
In our perspective the place is “there” not here. So it’s all the letters are THERE to see.
So take the word THERE and move the last E to the front and ETHER monument you can see!

You like word plays too?! Here’s one:
All the
letters
— Are here to see
If you’re the guy that buried the cask and know where the place is then the place is “here”.
In our perspective the place is “there” not here. So it’s all the
letters
are THERE to see.
So take the word THERE and move the last E to the front and ETHER monument you can see!

If the intent is to spell out THE two words then the line ” All the letters — Are here to see” makes sense. And the plaque is almost on a stone marker!

If the intent is to spell out THE two words then the line ” All the
letters
— Are here to see” makes sense. And the plaque is almost on a stone marker!

Unknown

Unknown:
#1 The Boston Marathon does come down Beacon Street but changes to Boyleston over near Kenmore Square by Fenway Park, home of The Red Sox. The section of Beacon Street near the Esplanade is about 1 mile away from Kenmore Square.
#2 The base around the Tobin Statue is all flagstone that is cemented in place. These stones cannot be removed without destroying them.The same goes for the cannon that they perform the 1812 around.
#3 The statue you are now interested in faces the Hatch Shell from the front/left, about 250 feet from the front of the shell, at the base of The Arthur Fiedler footbridge.This monument does not face the water it faces the Hatch Shell
#4 Take a good look at the stone work at the front of the shell. There are 5 levels/steps on both sides of the shell leading to the center of the shell. If you were to front and center while standing on the shell and look down, you would be in the tulip garden. Every spring thousands of tulips can be seen here. It is one of the only places in close proximity to the shell that you could actually dig.
#5 Just for curiosity sake. have you considered the statue of George Patton. This statue is in front of the shell looking out at the water?

Helpful reply from Boston:
Patton has interesting possibilities. Coincidentally, he has the same birthday, Remembrance Day.

slappybuns

shouldn’t there be something “italian”  about tobin?

Unknown

Unknown:
To Copley Square the library presents a façade reminiscent of Palazzo della Cancelleria, a sixteenth century Italian palace in Rome. The arcaded windows of its façade owe a debt to the side elevations of Alberti’s Tempio Malatestiano, Rimini, the first fully Renaissance building…Architect Charles Follen McKim chose to have monumental inscriptions, similar to those found on basilicas and monuments in ancient Rome…

I’ve abandoned Tobin – this is David Ignatius Walsh. The trail starts at BPL, which is as Italian as spaghetti, and ends with “Non Sibi”, which is Latin.

Near those who pass the coliseum
I’ve only just realised how close the Boston Marathon route passes to this Charlesgate location aka the 2C (circled below), and the fact that the finishing line is in front of the Boston Public Library. This is the route that “those who pass the coliseum” take…
If Thucydides is north of Xenophon
Take five steps in the area of his direction
Perhaps “he” is Xenophon, and you start by taking five junctions southwest from the BPL along Boylston to Hereford St, retracing the Marathon route. There’s a tower match at this junction which I’ve pointed out before…
The “green tower of lights” could simply be this, remembering that the verse doesn’t have to describe things in order…
So to recap, you’d have:
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
Start following the marathon route backwards as far as the Hereford junction where you see a confirmer…
A green tower of lights
…seen at the location
In the middle section
Dunno
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
You’re following the marathon route; this is close to the marathon route.
With metal walls
The fence
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Behind the building, beside the fence
Feel at home
Dunno
All the letters
Are here to see
Possibly the nearby Victory Gardens, or the letters on the building.
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
Revere, maybe also another reference to the green lamp

So, I overlayed the 2005 and the 1978 aerials in an attempt to jog old memories as to what the building is. I’m very interested in the possibility of this building being in Mothers Rest when the casque was buried. Could the building have had metal walls (aluminum or tin siding, a metal fence shaped like the dress as walls, etc.)?
I’ve been thinking about AA (the Boston Conservatory) being on Fenway St. and directly across from the building. I’ve also been considering reading the entire verse as paired lines…
Near those
who pass the coliseum
(near Fenway St., instead of near Fenway Park)
With metal walls
Face the water
(along with the metal walls that face the water, you should face the water… i.e., get on the side of the building that faces the water)
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
(put you back to stairs
of the building?
and feel at the ground of Mothers Rest… i.e., dig here)
All the letters
Are here to see
(across from Victory Gardens)
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
(dunno, but its a naturally paired lined)
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free
(maybe a reference to a lamp mounted on the roof of the buidling?)
I realize this supposes a lot; but, I am short on ideas for a dig spot and would like to rule in, or rule out this buildings inclusion in the puzzle. Anybody else looked more into my theory yet?

Glossiphoniidae

Could the building have had metal walls, a metal fence shaped like the dress…stairs…a lamp mounted on the roof…

Unknown

Unknown:
This world-famous, three-story, painted-glass globe is one of the key attractions at the Library.

Probably not. I think you’re getting unnecessarily sidetracked by this thing.
I still reckon it’s behind this building, where lamps, stairs and a metal fence can actually be seen…
I’ve been taking another look at the Mapparium at the Mary Baker Eddy library, and I reckon BP had it in mind for the globe.
In truth be free
She was always hammering on about truth and freedom; eg: “The Pilgrims came to establish a nation in true freedom.”

“IN TRUTH, BE FREE”
Could this mean to use the real events of Paul Revere’s Ride
as oppose to the trumped up folklore version….
this could mean to follow the actual path of his ride,
which is quite a bit more abreviated than is commonly known.
See link for both stories…
http://www.paulreverehouse.org/ride/real.shtml
http://www.paulreverehouse.org
Bumping this thread up to current because it is being discussed
and needs an image…
Tron

Interesting….
at the start of the Freedom Trail
(Boston Commons)
is a Coliseum.. can it be that easy?

The top of image1 looks like the top of The King’s Chapel on the Freedom Trail.
http://nanosft.com/freedom/kingchap/index.shtml

All the letters
Are here to see
An eye chart…?
The
New England College of Optometry
at 424 Beacon St is one of the oldest in the US, founded by August Klein (August being the month for this image).
The edge of the white building (circled) is the college, at one end of Hereford St. The short tower in the photos is the adjacent Church of Scientology. The tall tower is a building at the other end of Hereford St.
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free
Lit by lamplight – Beacon St…? If you follow it right to the end, it eventually stops where it runs into Washington St. The
Ode on Washington’s Birthday
is a possible source for “In truth, be free”.
This is way out in
Newton
. I think the marathon goes along this route. At the junction is the
Newton-Wellesley Hospital
, founded on my fave date 1881 (from image 4).
Newton’s seal bears the inscription: “Liberty and Union”.
Longfellow Road runs alongside to the north for added Revere-ness.
The other end of Beacon St. (red dot) in the heart of Boston is close to where Revere is buried (circle) – the Granary Burying Ground. It’s got a bit of a cradle-to-the-grave ring to it.

All the
letters
Are here to see
An eye chart…?
The
New England College of Optometry
at 424 Beacon St is one of the oldest in the US, founded by August Klein (August being the month for this image).
The edge of the white building (circled) is the college, at one end of Hereford St. The short tower in the photos is the adjacent Church of Scientology. The tall tower is a building at the other end of Hereford St.
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free
Lit by lamplight – Beacon St…? If you follow it right to the end, it eventually stops where it runs into Washington St. The
Ode on Washington’s Birthday
is a possible source for “In truth, be free”.
This is way out in
Newton
. I think the marathon goes along this route. At the junction is the
Newton-Wellesley Hospital
, founded on my fave date 1881 (from image 4).
Newton’s seal bears the inscription: “Liberty and Union”.
Longfellow Road runs alongside to the north for added Revere-ness.
The other end of Beacon St. (red dot) in the heart of Boston is close to where Revere is buried (circle) – the Granary Burying Ground. It’s got a bit of a cradle-to-the-grave ring to it.

hi erexere
i like your ideas on school, homecoming and everything, and bringing up thucydides and xenophon (both historians)
i think it is saying historic road, like the freedom trail.  if the first lines of the verse are saying roads, then it could be saying “historic road” .  the freedom trail map shows today that the 5th stop is king’s (castle in the image) chapel and burying grounds, and of course right after that is the first public school, with the plaque of the letters on school street (abc’s, letters)
http://www.aviewoncities.com/boston/freedomtrail.htm
whiterabbit your picture of the bird’s tail feather (hmm, the feather in the oval), made me think of bunker hill
11th stop, fanneuil hall:
The next stop on the Freedom Trail is Faneuil Hall, a building known as the
‘Cradle
of Liberty’
the 18th stop, would be going back, to copp’s hill……in truth be free—-cop’s—jail—-  be free,  lol

hi erexere
i like your ideas on school, homecoming and everything, and bringing up thucydides and xenophon (both historians)
i think it is saying historic road, like the freedom trail.  if the first lines of the verse are saying roads, then it could be saying “historic road” .  the freedom trail map shows today that the 5th stop is king’s (castle in the image) chapel and burying grounds, and of course right after that is the first public school, with the plaque of the
letters
on school street (abc’s,
letters
)
http://www.aviewoncities.com/boston/freedomtrail.htm
whiterabbit your picture of the bird’s tail feather (hmm, the feather in the oval), made me think of bunker hill
11th stop, fanneuil hall:
The next stop on the Freedom Trail is Faneuil Hall, a building known as the
‘Cradle
of Liberty’
the 18th stop, would be going back, to copp’s hill……in truth be free—-cop’s—jail—-  be free,  lol

(General brainstorming…)
In the Chicago verse, the lines which apparently give the clearest indication of the specific position of the casque are 9/10 of 15. (“Fence and fixture / Central too”). In the Cleveland verse these seem to be 4/5/6 of 14 (“Beneath the tenth stone / From right to left / Beneath the ninth row from the top”, if that’s actually where it was found.)
I was looking at verse 3 wondering if there might be a similar instruction somewhere early on; eg: “A green tower of lights / In the middle section”, with green reminiscent of the peridot; the only obviously green thing in the picture.
Revere and his beacon seem to be a significant feature of the verse…
…mostly he watched with eager search
The belfry tower of the Old North Church…
I quite like the way Beacon St has Revere near one end and Longfellow near the other, as well as the marathon route, so I was wondering about the “middle section” – perhaps
Chestnut Hill Reservoir
, a body of water pretty much in the middle of Beacon St, with the adjacent
Cleveland Circle
.
The main feature of the image is the circle, which looks aquatic to me; like a porthole or something. Possibly also ophthalmological.
(I’m also interested in a possible relationship between this figure and image 10, who appears similar and is apparently looking through the millstone circle at the image 11 circle. Image 10 has a key, and it’s been suggested that image 11 has a keyhole. Image 10 has a lion, and image 11 corresponds to Leo.)
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
18th letter is R – Right / Revere
12th letter is L – Left / Longfellow
In the middle is the 15th letter, O, the circle

“It is interesting to note that as Postmaster of the American Colonies, Benjamin Franklin had use of what is known as a “franking privilege.” This privilege allowed him to mail letters free of charge like Congressmen. What is unique about Franklin’s frank is that he signed his franking signature on out going mail as
“B. Free
Franklin.” Historians believe that this alludes to his commitment to gaining freedom and independence from the English government.
B. Free——be free
http://boston.povo.com/Benjamin_Franklin_Statue
on school street— along with the latin school mosaic with the ABC’s
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/493150668/
and he has a cane

“It is interesting to note that as Postmaster of the American Colonies, Benjamin Franklin had use of what is known as a “franking privilege.” This privilege allowed him to mail
letters
free of charge like Congressmen. What is unique about Franklin’s frank is that he signed his franking signature on out going mail as
“B. Free
Franklin.” Historians believe that this alludes to his commitment to gaining freedom and independence from the English government.
B. Free——be free
http://boston.povo.com/Benjamin_Franklin_Statue
on school street— along with the latin school mosaic with the ABC’s
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/493150668/
and he has a cane

Lit by lamplight
In truth be free
Nice find Slappy. Seems to be at the end of Beacon St., near where Revere is buried.

A lot of thiings in this thread seem to be coming together nicely.  I have a lot of confidence in that someone will figure it out once they spend some more time on location.  BPs “directions” seem to require close inspection of two or three sites based on what element is considered most significant on the image, right?  Was the chicago find really close to the castle type building in the hat?  And the wall and colomns are the big stand out for clevelands cultural gardens?  I’m thinking the large oculus (dome? Lantern and Pinecone at State House? ) is going to play the most significant role in tracking this one down.
Here’s further oculus research and other stuff:
The inside of the Barker Library dome at MIT
Did someone else already have this detail? The towers on the building were already pointed out to have some similarities.  My main interest is that it is across the street from the New England College or Optometry.  Something about all the blue orbs on Image 11 remind me of eyeballs, which are helpful when looking at art such as Copley.

erexere

Was the chicago find really close to the castle type building in the hat?

I don’t know what the castle is; it may be fictional. The hat includes the Chicago Water Tower as a windmill, as well as a couple of statues found in Grant Park –
The Bowman
and
Spirit of the Great Lakes
– and a distinctive fencepost. It was stuffed with leads compared to some of the other images. The exact location was given in the line: “Fence and fixture central too” – it was apparently between them. See
here
. (Another possibility which has been suggested for the Oculus – good word – is the
Mapparium
. This circle is the most striking thing in this image but it’s still not clear what it is. And there’s a curiously shaped crack in the 4-o-clock position which hasn’t been identified either.)

I see this different, not boston
T and D are greeks from Athens, one a diplomat, scholar, the other a soldier / horseman.
Coliseum – tower – letters –
this smacks of a University to me.
Which universities have statues of t and d ?

If verse 3 is merely pointing out “The Pru” as one of Boston’s icons,
(Prudential Building), not necessarily a dig-site location of the casque,
it could be referred to as:
a green tower of lights
in the middle section
Address….800 Boylston St.

Fox,
I was under the impression that the Central Artery
was the roadway that cut the North End off from
the rest of Boston…On this map, it is in red.
Here it is from an aerial view.
AP

Boston Public Library…above the keystone of the central entrance, proclaims: “FREE TO ALL”

Let’s just say that BP outdid himself on creating
covert references in verse 3.
If we do not look at the obvious historical sites,
we might want to look at more “covert” references:
Longfellow Place (Midnight Ride of Paul Revere reference),
Canal Street, (water)
Washington St….(who always told the Truth.)
Liberty Hotel, (Be Free)
Just freely associating.
AP

forest_blight

Hmm. I kind of assumed this meant “look for the P containing columns to pair with this V.” Maybe a double meaning.

Well so far I havent seen any other verse/p connections and Im pretty sure the columns in the picture are the ones on the wall and these columns are out by the street.
the columns are at the entrance to the garden and would mark the spot you start looking (among all the other gardens along that street)

Unknown

Unknown:
Well so far I havent seen any other verse/p connections

Unknown

Unknown:
and Im pretty sure the columns in the picture are the ones on the wall and these columns are out by the street. the columns are at the entrance to the garden and would mark the spot you start looking (among all the other gardens along that street)

“…land near the window”?
The columns are on the wall only in the P, not in real life, but I agree that at least your interpretation is correct — perhaps both of our interpretations.

Unknown

Unknown:
To find casque’s destination
Seek the columns
For the search.                The the last 3 lines is where you start walking toward
the casque after stopping on the curving road…..

Hmm. I kind of assumed this meant “look for the P containing columns to pair with this V.” Maybe a double meaning.

animal painter

Fox,
You are probably right…But as for “those that pass the coliseum with metal walls”,
I am convinced that it is referring to the Elevated Central Artery.  According to
the maps, it does not go near Copley Square.

but does it go by Boston Common?

I did not say
presumably stolen
, the article did.  From what I gather by looking at the pics, no, the statues are not there.  I wonder how long ago they went missing.  Even if they are gone, I think we could figure out which went where.  We know Peace is facing South.  It does say that History {in greek costume} is looking upward.  Upward on a map is north but I doubt that counts.  Now, if History was on the opposite side of the column, then yes…history is facing north.

If History is facing north, hmm… Thucydides and Xenophon were historians, were they not? I wonder what was written on that tablet of hers.
The web page to which fox refers also notes: “Note: After vandalism in 2004, one of the statues was damaged. As far as I remember (my last visit was 28 February), all the statues were missing. They may have returned by now – I’m not sure.”
The article about the vandalism can be read here:
http://pittsburghpost-gazette.com/pg/04132/314421.stm
More recent photographs (August, 2008) of the monument can be found at my webshots site:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/565535535bSKUow
See images 1978 and 1979. The statues are still missing. My guess is that after one statue was damaged, all 4 were removed for safe-keeping. So, Peace faced south, Sailor faced “seaward” (east), and
Soldier faced west
, so History must have been on the north (actually northeast)? pedestal.

I wonder if the
Greek
statue is North of the Sailor….?
Did you say
presumably stolen
? You mean they aren’t there now?

Here is a little exerpt describing the Soldiers and Sailors Monument in the Common.
“The platform is thirty-eight feet square, and rests on a mass of subterranean masonry sixteen feet deep. Four projecting pedestals sustain four bronze statues [presumably stolen], each eight feet high, representing Peace, a female figure bearing an olive-branch and looking to the South;
the Sailor, a picturesque mariner carrying a drawn cutlass, and looking seaward
; History, a graceful female figure, in Greek costume, holding a tablet and stylus, and looking upward; and the Soldier, perhaps the best statue on the monument, representing a Federal infantryman standing at ease, and bearing the face of a citizen-soldier rather than that of a professional warrior.”
Face the water?

Just an update on the search of the North Square…
In May 2006, there was a mailbox on the sidewalk by “Mamma Maria”.
I found a photo that shows the manhole cover more clearly.
In May 2006, the cover on the left,did not say “water”.
If you look at verse 3, North Square has the following clues (in bold)
I
f Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
I am going to let this place “rest” now.
No more searching here.
AP

Ok thanks. I have prepared an explanation to a very exact location but I do not want to post it until I hear from 421. Then it is up to him and possibly Xie. Maybe they are getting permission to dig.

Thanks 421 for reigniting the fire for me, I had long since assumed I was likely wrong about Cambridge Common but felt defeated and back to square one.
I have a strong belief on a site in this exact location. There’s another small image confirmer (I think) this morning, but I think it’s too vague to post before I go there.
There is a spot that I saw a picture from last night that screams “Holy ****” to me, I will be going there after work sometime this week. The Pru is indeed hidden in her dress, except 421 is looking at it from the wrong location, I believe.
One thing that bothers me: If the light tower is the end of Dartmouth street, I’m not really sure how that works. By 421s verse solve we’re already
past
the light tower by taking the 5 blocks/foot bridges. Aren’t the verses supposed to start
in
the park?
I can get myself to Dartmouth, but I can’t get myself anywhere after the green tower of lights… the movement directions stop there.

I hit Renner up on twitter completely coincidentally last week just to start a conversation. He mentioned he might be coming to Boston on Sat, but then never followed up. I got excited after reading this, thinking it may be connected and maybe he went dark because they found something but now IDK.
Either way I went to 421’s site and there was clearly no real dig done. It looks like someone dug around a tree near his bench, but if they found it then damn, because it was right next to a tree & the hole was made with surgical precision. I’m not even positive a human made it.
I remain unconvinced that it’s at those benches, personally. You get there and you want it to be right, and I follow a lot of the matches that 421 saw. But I just don’t feel it, you know?
I think the ‘K” on Brookline on the compass is dead on, brilliant find. I think I see the turning image upside down & look at the Pru thing. Here’s my issue – why does the poem get you to this really unnecessarily specific spot? If the bench/calendar thing is correct, there is
no reason
to direct you to such a specific location on the compass only to have you vaguely set off toward a bench. Getting you on the N side of the compass looking back in any way would work there. It seems oddly specific, and I’m not sure “feel at home” particularly means take a seat. I guess it could? I also am not sure you can get away with “take 5 steps” being both 5 blocks and 5 footbridges. IDK I’m getting the feeling that the compass is a park confirmer, not a dig confirmer.
I think the bench in the Pandora’s box is our ‘fence and fixture’ here and will be visible from the site, however there are 200+ benches on the park. I’m not saying the calendar thing doesn’t make a little sense, but it is a bit more difficult than the previous counting solves, which were steps/bricks and trees with no transformation required into a calendar grid.
If 421 is correct about everything, I think it’s dead between benches 18 and 19, not 12 o’clock ahead, but if the benches are days on a calendar 18th day, 12th hour is
directly
between the 18th and 19th days.
I live here, I ride my bike past this exact spot every single day on the way to work. If it’s here, it
will
be dug up unless the police stop me, and then it’s probably just a matter of reaching out to one of the film crews. My fear is that someone will use our work here and finish it off for personal glory rather than the spirit of the hunt but f it, let’s just get one out of the ground.
I will follow up with what to me is a 100% confirmer of the site, though it points closer to the hatch shell. Again could be a park confirmer, not a dig. I have a theory that I want to look at tomorrow if I can, one specific area that I really didn’t look at enough today that has an almost solitary bench and a fixture I can’t quite make out.

So it’s 5 blocks/bridges to either the Compass or the Hatch Shell, and here is why I find the hatch shell extremely compelling, and also believe strongly that we are in the correct park.
http://i.imgur.com/hMp5JFc.png
This is a rotation of the map from above of the DCR hatch shell. Notice the dock, which is notably not 100% centered on its boardwalk.
Take a look at our image again and tell me when you see it. Our annoying bird friend on his… not quite centered perch? Here’s a poor job of illustrating:
http://i.imgur.com/z8vCI50.jpg
Let’s dig this one up.
edit: Visual matches from 421 that I also discount: I’m not
sold
on that window, but OK. I’m definitely 100% not sold on the triangle posted as a confirmer for the triangular pattern on the pillars. There are two of those triangles and they’re stylized. There are lots of triangles in Boston, there’s a bunch as you walk up Dartmouth St in windows. Tough sell.
Need more for “lit by lamplight” IMO as bench 18 isn’t even near a lamp. I was wondering about the plaques on the back of the benches but the clues seem more permanent than that. They’re all empty now though. In truth be free of course doesn’t quite get there, but we dont need a 100% solve I guess.

Unknown

Unknown:
“Mending Wall” is a metaphorical poem written in blank verse, published in 1914, by Robert Frost (1874–1963). The poem appeared as the first selection in Frost’s second collection of poetry, North of Boston. It is set in the countryside and is about one man questioning why he and his neighbor must rebuild the stone wall dividing their farms each spring.
The neighbor rebuilds the wall without question, quoting “Good fences make good neighbors,” a line listed by the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations as a mid 17th century proverb. But Frost’s narrator questions the proverb, noting that neither his apple trees nor his neighbor’s pine trees are likely to encroach on the other’s property. He says, “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or walling out / And to whom I was like to give offense.” He also observes, both at the poem’s opening and again midway through the poem, “Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,” referring to the forces of nature that bring a wall to decay and require it to be repaired and rebuilt. But the neighbor is not receptive to the narrator’s doubts, quoting again at the poem’s close that “Good fences make good neighbors.”

Sidenote: I don’t really like the following idea, since it comes togther so weakly.  Its just entrely too complex.  I don’t see how Preiss would expect someone to get somewhere with the idea.  Mayb I’m missing something.  I just can’t ignore the use of the LotJ and words “cold morning” to mean frost.
Brilliant as eyes of Celtic folk,
Cold morning
green, their Emerald.
If Thucydides is
North
of Xenophon
“Cold Morning”
“North”
Frost, Robert
North of Boston, a collection of poems by Robert Frost.
Something to consider.  Why might a great American poet be part of this verse’ introduction?  Perhaps this bolsters the resulting location of the John Boyle O’Reilly memorial to Patriotism and Poetry.
Deep as this reference is, I think it would make a good selection to support my notion of exile and how the small fence keeps one of the lamps in and fences out the other lamps.

Forest,
Thanks for the “legeater” photo in BPL.
That was quite a photo tour of Boston…so many statues…so little time…
I was sure that you would have had a “Eureka” moment as you stood
between the BPL and Copley Square…
AP

FB, you lucky devil you.  It seems that you have visited almost every city where there is “most likely” a casque hidden.  You really need to start skipping these droll conferences and pack the shovel
Medford huh?  Interesting tie ins.  Did you happen to notice the name of the very large park just above Medford in Middlesex County.  Doesnt that bring you right back to our little conversation over lunch so long ago?

fox

FB, you lucky devil you.  It seems that you have visited almost every city where there is “most likely” a casque hidden.  You really need to start skipping these droll conferences and pack the shovel

fox

Medford huh?  Interesting tie ins.  Did you happen to notice the name of the very large park just above Medford in Middlesex County.  Doesnt that bring you right back to our little conversation over lunch so long ago?

Ha! Been there, done that, and it didn’t pan out. I’ve reverted to armchair hunting
As for conferences, the next two I’m attending will take me to Montreal (!) and San Francisco (! !).
Middlesex Fells Reservation? Not sure I read you, unless you’re referring to the little corner of it known as “Wrights Park,” which opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms!

Forest – be sure to post when you will be in SF
I will come down and we can do lunch
MaltedFalcon

You bet, Malt – it will be in late May.

I’ve got an exact spot… exact… that is spelled out in the verse and that the image confirms. Does anybody know a Boston digger that I can get in touch with?

Or they may not be.
Friendly contrarian who thinks this is Canada here.
I know alot of you think the last few lines talk about the midnight ride. I however think they talk about the 1982 Canadian Constitution. I know the constitution was signed on the 17th but I am somewhat in agreement with thoes that think this is saying midnight on the 18th. Anyway the significance of the ’82 Constitution was it for all practical matters it severed all ties with the United Kingdom. Hence what in Truth Be Free means. Alsol as I look at the canal area of Ottawa it sure looks like it matches the verse.
I think Ottawa is the city because if this therory is correct because that was the location of the signing of the constitution.
Soon I hope to scan the image and isolate what is I think is the Canadian Maple Leaf in the image. When I do get this done I will E-mail it to Fox to put up.

if you are looking for a side by side comparison of anything, I would email it to FB… he seems a little more computer literate when it comes to things like that.

strike13

With regards to the esplanade. There is a perfect fit for “feel at home”. The signs on sorrow dr., which are viewable from the esplanade, have read IF YOU LIVED HERE, YOU’D BE HOME NOW. been there since the 60s.
https://imgur.com/a/pQ1j1bU

But, “if you lived here you’d be home now,” specifically means you DON’T live there. So I think it’s a 180 from “feel at home”

How many of the lamp posts are there at Charlesgate Park like the ones in the “circles?” I’ve been going through the threads looking for a count but haven’t come across it, if it’s there. Anyone live in the area that has counted them?
I counted at least 15 so far
There are five at the circles, (E 48 Charlesgate)
Another five in the 1999 photo on the pbwiki page (b&w photo all in a row near an overpass) I can not locate them on google earth/map
Another five at E 1 Charlesgate (the other street corner down from the circles)
Wonder if from the stairs at mothers rest we count the number of lamp posts then dig a number of steps from that post.
Example at the 18th lamp post take 12 steps then dig or vice-versa.

jayheedan1

How many of the lamp posts are there at Charlesgate Park like the ones in the “circles?” I’ve been going through the threads looking for a count but haven’t come across it, if it’s there. Anyone live in the area that has counted them?
I counted at least 15 so far
There are five at the circles, (E 48 Charlesgate)
Another five in the 1999 photo on the pbwiki page (b&w photo all in a row near an overpass) I can not locate them on google earth/map
Another five at E 1 Charlesgate (the other street corner down from the circles)
Wonder if from the stairs at mothers rest we count the number of lamp posts then dig a number of steps from that post.
Example at the 18th lamp post take 12 steps then dig or vice-versa.

From Day 1 I could never accept the Charlesgate “2 C” location. I have always felt that was Kenmore level bad. I hope to be proven wrong, but, c’mon.

I can see the stairs at Mothers rest, coming down them walking straight (back to the stairs facing the water) it over looks the gardens (all the letters are here to see). But from there I’m not convinced of anything.
The circles could be an earlier waypoint marker (get of the highway here at Charlesgate, then go to Mothers rest) or could be the last waypoint on a trail from Mothers rest.
The lines tie us to Boston via the midnight ride, but the Japanese clues tell us what’s important is the 12, 18 and lamp light.
So I tend to think it has at least something to do with light posts.

drunknerds

But, “if you lived here you’d be home now,” specifically means you DON’T live there. So I think it’s a 180 from “feel at home”

Allow me to add a little context for flavor.
The “If You Lived Here… You’d Be Home Now” signs were put up on the Charles River Park apartments back in the 1970’s, right at the east end of Storrow Drive. The apartments were built as part of a still hotly-debated urban renewal project which leveled Boston’s West End and replaced it with, among other things, a group of apartment blocks that were immediately marketed to doctors at the ever-growing Mass General Hospital next door.
Charles River Park apartments is right at the corner where drivers reaching the east end of Storrow Drive are at a stoplight just before the onramps to I-93 north and south (the dreaded Southeast Expressway to the south). Traffic backs up there for *hours*. It’s been awful since the 1960s, and the Big Dig did nearly nothing to mitigate it.
If you know what you’re looking at, the wave pattern on the signs makes it even worse on super-hot summer days with no air conditioning in the car, because they’re hung on Charles River Park’s private swimming pool. You can see the backs of the top row of cabanas behind the signs.

I don’t have much to add. But note that previous interpretations of
Near those / Who pass the coliseum / With metal walls
could have fallen prey to a misplaced modifier. Perhaps
metal walls
modifies
those
rather than
coliseum
. In that case, it could refer to people driving by in cars (most of which have metal “walls”). Given this reading, those three lines could be translated as “Right beside a road next to a coliseum.” It strikes me as unlikely that a master riddler like Preiss would mean “coliseum with metal walls” to be taken literally.

I still feel the BPL is very important to this casque.  I believe
“Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see”
refers directly to the library.  Authors or writers are known as men of letters and I think this is saying all of the authors are here to see.
Here is one of the bldgs of the BPL w/ our green tower of lights (hancock bldg) just behind it
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/pj/bpl.jpg
A strange, French fellow named Alexandre Vattemare is credited with founding the library.  With the line “Face the water” I was kind of hoping that Vattemare was french for water but alas, I was wrong.  However;  breaking his name down you do get:
va – goes
te – you, to you
mare – pools, pond, pool
must be a coincidence but I thought it was interesting.  is there a statue of Vattemare nearby?

There is this:
“The family of Josiah Phillips Quincy, mayor of Boston, became close friends of Vattemare, taking him into their home and corresponding with him regularly after his return to France. A plaque commemorating his achievement can be seen today in the entrance hall of the Boston Public Library at Copley Square, placed there twenty years after Vattemare’s death by Quincy’s son.”
hmm

I’m wondering what is on the panels of the other 3 sides of the library, we only have photos of the east side. Could the panels be the same on all sides? If so the only way T would be north of X is if these panels were the same on the west side of the building. That’s something to atleast look into before ruling it out. Someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, If t is not north of x he is south of him so we take 5 steps in his direction, either south or old south church, to me this makes sense.
forest I think talked about T & X being in chicago or cleveland as well, this could be here to confuse us as to which verse to use at those locations. Maybe if you seen T & X in chicago you would try to use verse 3 instead of the one you are suppose to use?

shecrab

In the North End, where Copley Square is, is the Old SOUTH Church (Trinity.) So you have the South in the North already.

Copley is the Back Bay, the North End is north east of Copley by the ocean….lol Boston is confusing.

forest_blight

A sign with the letters T and X (or theta and ksi/xi) in some meaningful arrangement.

The subway here is called the “T”and has a stop at Copley. I don’t know about any X’s though.

Even if nothing in verse 3 matches there is still no doubt in my mind image 11 is Copley Square. The design on her dress matches the alter at Trinity Church almost perfectly. The window behind her with the stone that looks like a turned around utah matches one of the entrances,  a round arch with a design that looks just like the utah block right next to it. The checkerboard pattern is on the outside of Trinity church. The triangle is inside Old South Church. The squares inside of squares are on a wall painting inside of Trinity. The dark and light half circle is on the inside of Old South Church. One of americas most famous globe makers was Charles Copley, there is a globe in the image. On the stained glass inside of Trinity there are a few peices that also match, on the top of one is a man standing with a circular stone window above him just like image 11. The birds claw almosts fits an outline of Bostons water front perfectly. If this is the wrong spot it is going to be extremely hard to find all of these elements together in one place somewhere else, if not impossible. And don’t forget the lat and long 71 & 42 and also the 112, the tower is 211 ft high. Also, I read on here somewhere this image is suppose to match up to Italy, the Trinity Church and surrounding buildings are italian architecture. And one more thing I notice as I’m looking at the image is the big star in the sky…north star? Follow the north star to Bethlehem = jesus= church. Even if you exclude the library (which has a woman holding a orb in front of it) image 11 matches Copley Square. I would be astounded if all of these elements in the image matched up to two buildings across the street from one another anywhere else in the country.

insatiable

The subway here is called the “T”and has a stop at Copley. I don’t know about any X’s though.

Trinity churchs shape is built based on a cross , a giant t shape…..a cross could be a “t” or an “X” …….even the crosses on the outside of the churches could be t’s or x’s.

Before we can forget Copley we have to find out how the Square looked in 81′.  The north/south “If” thing could just be a play on words.  We are either off the mark or the park has changed so dramatically that the confirmers are gone.  The BPL must have pictures of the Square from then, I hope.  I feel that we know the verse is Boston, and we know that Image11 has too much of the Square in to be too far from that area.  The coliseum, the letters, the steps, water, all could be in older photos.
Feel at home
– famous house, bench to sit on, home plate,  “Welcome” sign???  We could use a real good librarian!!!!!

I take the first two lines to mean orient/position your body so that you are facing in a direction where T is north of X.  If you look at the picture of the two panels and use the picture insatiable posted, this actually has you facing west.  I’m not sure what the next move would be or how to interpret “take five steps”, but approximately 5 city blocks west is the Back Bay Fens.  I haven’t looked into this much, just throwing it out there for others to nibble on.

boogieman

Before we can forget Copley we have to find out how the Square looked in 81′.  The north/south “If” thing could just be a play on words.  We are either off the mark or the park has changed so dramatically that the confirmers are gone.  The BPL must have pictures of the Square from then, I hope.  I feel that we know the verse is Boston, and we know that Image11 has too much of the Square in to be too far from that area.   The coliseum, the letters, the steps, water, all could be in older photos.
Feel at home
– famous house, bench to sit on, home plate,  “Welcome” sign???  We could use a real good librarian!!!!!

I think the coliseum with metal walls is fenway park…..the big “green monster” is made of iron, and it’s a very well known landmark just like clevelands terminal tower and the water tower in chicago. It is not far from copley, 1 mile to be exact.
All the letters could easily be the streets that go in alphabetical order, arlington, berkley, claredon, dartmouth, exeter, fairfield, glouster, hereford.
If there was no fountain in copley back then…face the water could mean face the charles river which would be north if you were standing at the library panels. Or it could mean face the ocean which would mean to face east towards Trinty Church.

Unknown

Unknown:
I take the first two lines to mean orient/position your body so that you are facing in a direction where T is north of X.

I don’t understand this – no matter how you orient yourself, T will still not be north of X. It doesn’t depend on the viewer, unless you have the ability to rotate buildings or change the location of magnetic north. I read this instead to mean that we have to find a place where T is north of X. I’m sorry to say it, but that pretty much rules out BPL.
Still…
Does anyone other than me find it incredibly coincidental that TWO casques involve Xenophon and Thucydides? There is the explicit mention of them in V3, which led us to the BPL. But their names are also carved on a panel of the wall from P4 in Cleveland. What are the odds? I wonder if we can find a book that describes both of these inscriptions, and if so, maybe that source could yield more insights.

insatiable

The subway here is called the “T”and has a stop at Copley. I don’t know about any X’s though.

But TH is not T in the Greek alphabet. It is THETA. TH. T is represented by TAU.
And sorry about the BackBay/North End thing!! I thought Trinity was North!

boogieman

Before we can forget Copley we have to find out how the Square looked in 81′.  The north/south “If” thing could just be a play on words.  We are either off the mark or the park has changed so dramatically that the confirmers are gone.  The BPL must have pictures of the Square from then, I hope.  I feel that we know the verse is Boston, and we know that Image11 has too much of the Square in to be too far from that area.   The coliseum, the letters, the steps, water, all could be in older photos.
Feel at home
– famous house, bench to sit on, home plate,  “Welcome” sign???  We could use a real good librarian!!!!!

Even though the square has changed, the actual building where TH and X’s names are has not changed since it was built….the name landmarks are going to be the same no matter what else has been altered.
Here’s a thought: The Golden Stairs–(your back to the Stairs) were the stairs that immigrants to Boston stepped onto from the wharf when they got off the ship at their new home.  Feel at home could refer to the influx of immigrants–and the welcome they received in Boston when they got here to make it their new home!

shecrab

But TH is not T in the Greek alphabet. It is THETA. TH. T is represented by TAU.
And sorry about the BackBay/North End thing!! I thought Trinity was North!

Thanks shecrab
I learn something new everyday.
Trinity, North?