http://www.history.navy.mil/download/w-part%201.pdf
[1977]
“ancient dream of flight”… “members”… “winged beast… with a goat’s head” and such. An interesting read overall.

Lane
… Sir Ralph Lane?

I can’t see how BP didn’t consider the Ralph possibility.  Now  where might that lead?

Unknown

Unknown:
I wondered if the 12345 could have any significance beyond drawing attention to the pattern, and I’ve also been wondering today about clues for verse number in the images. Could be a V5 clue…?

The paintings were made without knowledge of the numerical order the verses would be printed in.  Preiss gave Palencar polaroid photos of the things he wanted included in the images, without any knowledge of their location. The verses were written later.

Im going old school and thinking since the image is reversed,
that when you mirror the image to make all the writing appear forward and the pattern on the dress to match the outline of GGpark,
that The (left finger (after mirroring) is pointing after 3 and the right finger is pointing after 4
giving me 34 or 34th ave the road that you leave the iconic image on.

how does that work for verse 1?  or 2
every picture contains 1 or 2 things…
If it were the same thing in each picture that would make sense.  counting random items and claiming a link doesnt

shecrab

The paintings were made without knowledge of the numerical order the verses would be printed in. The verses were written later.

I don’t really see how asking JJP to include things suggesting numbers which BP could then assign to verses is any different from asking him to include things suggesting months, or coordinates. But even if they were created with no such references in mind, BP could still have drawn on the images in choosing the order of the verses.
This is the kind of thing I was wondering about…
Image 6, Verse 9 (Florida) – nine flowers
Image 10, Verse 8 (Milwaukee) – circle of eight
Highly speculative obviously, just brainstorming really – hadn’t occurred to me to look for hints there before.

I was thinking Gold, Gate, and Ridge for the watch, and prison bars in midst of mountain ridges for Golden Gate Bridge.  Stretch?

I’m thinking the barred window is actually a door and is a site confirmer.
won’t know til I get back to SF (next month at the earliest)

maltedfalcon, the Enterprise was the name of that first balloon ride.  You’ve focused on pic 1 with verse 5 for SF right?   I’ve become convinced verse 5 goes with pic 6, so I’m not able to help further your SF approach that way.  Could verse 10 work?  Does the pic have a CA shape hidden anywhere?
I totally see the SF in pic 1, it’s practically a rebus.  I think it’s potentially misleading, but putting us on a stepping stone in the right direction.  In the Japanese Internment theory it works because people of Japanese origin were gathered from SF and taken to Manzanar in next to Sierra Nevada, but the “No-No Boys”, people who failed to answer two specific questions pertaining to renunciation of all loyalty to Japan and whether they would be willing to serve in American military, were sent specifically to Tule Lake.  Tule Lake was seen as the “Alcatraz” of Japanese Internment. I think I actually read that somewhere (sorry, no citation).  Hence the prison gate in the mountain.  Tule Lake is in an area next to the National Lava Beds, so there are lots of volcanic formations including large cinder cone (large grey giant?).  Typical volcanic rock colors are reddish orange and grey.  I think verse 10 works with this in a very significant way, because I found a memorial stone that looks similar to pic 1 (neck line below collar) and is located in the area of aisle B on a grid plot that has rows/columns ranging E through K.  Extrapolation is required to see the location as aisle B.

Well gosh I had my hopes up for this verse and San Francisco.
So I have been going through the verse line by line to see if it fits my scenario.
(Long story short)
Lincoln Park in SF used to be a cemetery. and it was south of The Palace of the legion of honor.
Palace being a synonym for citadel (per webster’s)
Near the palace is the last remaining tombstone or monument. (a memorial actually) but it would definitely have fit the bill of last remaining member of a forest (of tombstones) that is now gone)
more importantly West of the monument is a jumble of white stones. The nearest being approx 12 paces away (actually its a little closer) (small paces?)
The sticker for me was Wingless bird ascended, I tried and tried to come up with some historical balloon launch from this site.
I got nothing.
and then the more I looked I realized that no,  this verse just doesnt fit lincoln park and Sf…

however I did find a spot that did have a historical balloon flight that was well known
this is from an 1863 letter to a newspaper
Mercury, August 16, 1863 [OAF]
Morris Island, August 3, 1863
Messrs. Editors:—
The latest news from this department is the capture of a blockade runner having on board heavy Whitworth guns. The guns captured are now in course of erection on the north end of the Island to bombard the fort          ,
As I write, the rebels are vainly blazing away, while our men both white and black are steadily pursuing their work right in their very teeth. When they see the flash from Fort Sumter they merely slip into their caves, dug already for the purpose, and after the shell has exploded, out they come and go to work again, till old Sumter gives them another salute. I have been up to the front three times this week, but “I still live,” and all the others who have been up there.
The rebels are evidently getting scared.
Last Tuesday we could see a balloon hovering over Charleston for over an hour;
they were doubtless reconnoitering, but I think it is likely they could see they would be warmly received, should they take a notion to visit us.
Turns out The City of Charleston was the hequarters for the development and operations of the Confederate Balloon force. (seriously)

Actually The balloons didn’t have names. You are confusing Thadeus Loewes’ Balloons Enterprise and Intrepid, (the northern Balloon corp) which were created in New Jersey.
The two balloons I am speaking of were created originally as hot air balloons out of donated silk dresses from ladies of the well to do confederate families of Charleston.
They ended up being quite colorful as they were a patchwork of silk dresses. Early on they learned hot air wasn’t efficient enough to use. so they switched to Gas.
The Gas had to be supplied by a city gasworks so the balloons never really left Charleston. They filled one and put it on a boat to move it closer to the enemy, but the boat ran aground and the balloon was destroyed.
The second balloon was a constant sight over Charleston until it too was finally destroyed during the seige of Charleston.
point being- Wingless bird ascended, born of ancient dreams of flight totally works for the City of Charleston.
To me it looks like verse 5 belongs with image 2

erexere

I totally see the SF in pic 1, it’s practically a rebus.

Rebus?  How so?  Yes, the pic practically screams SF but I dont see the rebus.

Sonoran

Lane
Two twenty two
The runway numbers at First Flight Airport are 2 and 20. I don’t understand how the extra “two” is explained though.
You’ll see an arc of lights
There is a beacon on the monument. It is a maritime beacon, but is designed for aviation.
A wingless bird ascended
Born of ancient dreams of flight
The Wright Flyer has wings but they aren’t bird wings. This line should be a perfect match.

I think the “extra” two needs to be explained before we go to V5 for this.  The line sounds like a road to me and Washington’s birthday still makes more sense than anything else.
The beacon doesn’t constitute an arc of lights.  Just one flashing beacon created to guide ships.
The wings are wings.  The monument, the Flyer, have wings. I think you have to think here, of something that ascends without wings.  Rockets, balloons etc.  I really like the way you matched the rest of the verse, BTW.  But V11 really is North Carolina.
How can you ignore this for V11?
Pass two friends of octave, In December!!!!!
ps:  forgot to add an LOL to my “Timer” post.  My Bad…..

Sonoran is correct…the monument DOES have wings. LARGE WINGS are carved on either side of the monument. From the air, as well, the memorial is the SHAPE of an airfoil (wing). These are deliberate metaphors.
And this verse actually DOES fit pretty well ALSO! I’m almost convinced, in fact. You puzzled over this:
Of granite walls
Wind swept halls
But don’t forget about the most famous flight poem of all time, by Gillespie Magee:
Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced hte skies on laughter-silvered wings.
Sunward I’ve climbed and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of–wheeled and soared and swung
high in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
my eager craft through footless
halls
of air.
Up, up the long delirious burning blue,
I’ve topped the
windswept
heights
with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle, flew
And while with silent lifting mind I’ve trod
The high unsurpassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.
I also think the extra 2 needs to be explained, but there were TWO of them…the brothers. So maybe this reads more like “Lane 2-20, Two..”
meaning on Lane (airstrip) 2-20, two (brothers) flew.
Nice work, Sonoran!!

Fenix

Wouldn’t that be Two Twenty-Two? He did use a hyphen in verse 2, In the middle of twenty-one.
I’m curious, have you been to Olympic Park? You have some very large stretches with the architecture(much which cannot be seen or was not built yet) and location.

No I have not been to Montreal, but truly enjoyed Toronto when I made it there.
I don’t quite understand, why would there have to be a hyphen if I interpreted this to be number 222? I believe the other clue to be used differently, perhaps why he used the hyphen in the clue.
What stretches with what architecture? I’m happy to explain why I came up with certain ideas.

Fenix

Is that translation accurate? Specifically, the reference to the numbers in the poem instead of the images. I find it curious that it is said to look at the images first and find the combination of numbers….but in the poem. If you instead said the combination of numbers in the images, it makes perfect sense and would be a logical first step to establishing our cities with lat/lon.

Hmm…this is a very good point. Hats off to that translator, it sounded like he was doing an awesome job working through the text, but going from one language to another is always a tricky business.

boogieman
ii was hoping you guys were still out there somewhere
i know i’m getting things mixed up because of taking notes on all the threads, but i thought the statue of liberty’s hands on that pic from forest blight (with image 9)  was almost perfect and thought i’d post it b4 i lost the thought.
if you forget about image 12 ( for a second), the dutch picture for NY makes more sense
but  i haven’t rechecked yet the lat’s and long’s, and that stupid dogleg really messes things up
i promise this time i will be more organized (i hope). it’s still gonna take a couple of weeks just to get my notes straight.
(my attempt at making up a joke:  ole treasure hunters never die they just clue away…………………needs work…………………..
)

fox are u talking about this 2 friends of octave, i had forgotten, i guess should move this to v11
Chanute was in contact with the Wright brothers from 1900, when Wilbur Wright wrote to him after reading
Progress in Flying Machines. Chanute helped to publicise the Wright brothers’ work, and provided
consistent encouragement, visiting their camp near Kitty Hawk in 1901, 1902 and 1903.
Chanute freely shared his knowledge about aviation with anyone who was interested and expected others
to do the same, although he did encourage colleagues to patent their inventions. His open approach led
to friction with the Wright brothers, who believed their ideas about aircraft control were unique and
refused to share them. Chanute did not believe the Wright flying machine patent, premised on wing-warping
, could be enforced and said so publicly. The friendship was still impaired when Chanute died in 1910,
although Wilbur Wright delivered the eulogy at Chanute’s funeral.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute
more links to octave
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz= … f&oq=&aqi=

i saw a blimp today and, and thought of wingless bird, and found this
prob been mentioned b4
In 1903 the first successful flight occurred here conducted by the Wright brothers.
click on birds eye, a #2 at one end, and a # 20 at other
http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/28445/
found this too
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/NC/Airfields_NC.htm
not really getting us closer though

ack…not the runways 2 & 20 again
Maybe I would be a little more of a believer if they were….say…. 2 & 22.  But I digress.  Once again, we seem to be completely shying away from V11 with the SEVERAL references to not only the Wrights but the area as well:
1.  “Pass two friends of octave” = these are the Wrights themselves
2.  “There’s a road that leads to Dark forest” = the entrance to the Elizabethan Gardens says “walked away through the dark forest into history”  I personally find this too much to simply be coincidental
3.  “To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable Determination” = Wright Memorial (looking very winglike) says “Achieved by dauntless resolution and unconquerable faith”  Again…too close to be purely coincidental.
Why oh why oh why do some still want to try to find other V’s that kind of tie into the Wrights when V11 DOES fit?

Shecrab,
Have a profitable stay in PA.
I look forward to hearing your ideas when you get home.
AP

I realize that this is not the proper thread for Milwaukee, but it seemed to be the place to ask this…
Shecrab:
“As for Milwaukee, I have no doubt that the casque is in Milwaukee, even in Lake Park. But I think we’re exploring the
wrong part of the park.
That’s the issue I have. I’m not doubting the rest.”
Shecrab,
(There is no sarcasm or snideness in this post…It is a genuine appeal for your ideas.)
If you have any ideas about where to search in Lake Park, will you
please share them…? What part of the park do you think we should
be searching?
Long ago I went on a “birch-search” taking verse 8 literally.
On this photo:
Number 1 is a very large dead-for-a-long-time birch.
Number 2 is a very young birch sapling…probably was not alive in 1982.
Number 3 is another medium-sized dead-for-a-long-time birch.
Number 4 is a small-to-medium dead-for-a-long-time birch.
Number 5 is the location at which you find yourself after you
have walked 100 paces from below the bridge.
There are no birches…dead or alive…at the number 5 location.
I have not found any other birches along Lincoln Memorial Drive
going either South or North from the Number 5 location…or in the
Lighthouse Ravines.
Where would you suggest that I search…using your outside-the-box
thinking…with a fresh perspective…do you have any suggestions?
AP

AP, I DO have a suggestion for a place to dig—but it will have to wait until I get home from this conference, as my materials are all there. I hope you don’t feel put off by this!! Is that all right?
I have limited time on this hotel computer…and don’t have any of my notes here (though I did bring my book.) I have a map area that was not explored, even though it was mentioned a couple of times.
So as soon as I’m home, I’ll post the locale.

animal painter

The 100 “steps” brings you out to the clearing at the end
of the ravine…at the first young birch…which is where
I think BP meant it to end.  (Although we have never found
any trace of an actual birch tree…)
AP

Gonna post to this in the Milwaukee thread….

boogieman

[
I am forced to believe that the landmarks for which BP was alluding to were thought to be permanent at one time.

I was under the impression BP said he didnt worry about the permanence of landmarks because he assumed the puzzles would be solved in very short order.

You maybe right Malted, but still, if i were going to bury a casque, and I’m not as smart as BP was, I would bury it where it would not be disturbed, including being disturbed by growing roots.

when assuming the casque would only stay buried for a year or less, roots wouldnt be an issue at all.
Look at the Clevland caque it was buried in such a way that the continuous freezing and thawing of the ground in the planter box pretty much crushed it. BP wasnt planning for the boxes to stay in the ground that long. And the Chicago box was buried in a area where tree roots would have grown, had not the nearest trees been cut down after the box was placed.

Unknown

Unknown:

Unknown

Unknown:

when assuming the casque would only stay buried for a year or less, roots wouldnt be an issue at all.
Look at the Clevland caque it was buried in such a way that the continuous freezing and thawing of the ground in the planter box pretty much crushed it. BP wasnt planning for the boxes to stay in the ground that long. And the Chicago box was buried in a area where tree roots would have grown, had not the nearest trees been cut down after the box was placed.
Point taken.  You are right.  Maybe I know something BP didn’t then.  I once cut out a 12 ft section of tree root growing into my patio.  The very next summer, the darned thing grew back almost twice that.
The Cleveland and Chicago sites, other than the trees, are not disturbed today.  The landmarks are still there.  Ten by thirteen are gone which is why BP helped them out.  So, he used trees to help locate the casque.  That’s unfortunate for us.
The birch may be a birch afterall.  Would the other landmarks stiil be there?  What are they?  I hope the’re still there.

The children’s zoo in houston has changed radically. If there was a casque in New Orleans… well….
and any casque that was buried on a beach would almost definitely be gone.
but we can hope….
I.e. the casque in SF, one of the possible spots had an irrigation line excavated through it. What keeps me hoping that was not the spot was there is no picture of the “view” from that spot hidden in image 1…
so I cross my fingers and keep looking.
and I think the chicago spot was torn up completely just as short time ago.

When I first read this verse, I took the “wingless bird” to be a helicopter.  “Born of ancient dreams of flight”  immediately recalled visions of DaVinci’s helical air screw.  I see that others have already suggested this.
Igor Sikorsky left Russia for the USA and started the Sikorsky Aero Engineering Corporation near Roosevelt Field on Long Island, NY.  Sikorsky was the most notable pioneer of helicopters in the USA.
Harold Pitcairn started the Pitcairn Autogiro Company in Willow Grove, Philadelphia, PA.  They built the Army’s first rotary-winged aircraft.

This one jumped out at me, so I did a few hours of research.
Lane
Two twenty two
You’ll see an arc of lights
Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site
Of granite walls
Wind swept halls
Citadel in the night
A wingless bird ascended
Born of ancient dreams of flight
Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
Get permission
To dig out.
Lane 222 – most likely a US or state route. There’s a big Rt 222 between Lancaster and Reading in PA, and a small one in Gainesville FL. Robert Fulton’s birthplace is on Rt 222 in PA.
A wingless bird ascended – can it be anything but a rocket?
Citadel – stronghold. Something military?
Florida + rocketry + military…NASA? But I don’t know if Gainesville is anywhere near the rocketry stuff (tho U of F has a grant to work on space travel vehicles for NASA, and they have a campus in Gainesville).
This one strikes me as a good one to start on simply because there are only so many Rt 222s, and I have to believe that’s what the first line means.

except there isnt an image for that location lat/lon, Is there?

On May 18, 1980 the most destructive volcanic event in the history of the United States, Mt. St. Helens sent a large ash cloud 80,000 feet into the sky and deposited volcanic material in 11 states.  The native Americans called it Loowit for a beautiful woman who tended the fire at the base of the Bridge of the Gods.  Mt. Hood and Mt. Adams are the two brothers battled for Loowits affection.  The 50-ton granite boulder in Corbett has a great view of these mountains.  I’m considering an interpretation of this ash plume as a wingless bird.
Beneath the only standing member of a forest
fits with the fact that every major mountain often has a wilderness or forest named after it as a standard geographical syntax.
According to the native American legend, one of the brothers (mt.hood) struck the other and knocked off/flattened his head (mt.adams), thus common lore supports the idea that Mt. Hood is the only standing member of the mountain trio after the 1980 eruption.  It is also the highest elevation and so the source of the wingless bird was beneath.
This interpretation is important and supportive to my Corbett theory.  It involves facts and native folklore that are very prominent in the local history.  In 1981, the Nation was still very aware and concerned about the events of Mt. St. Helen’s.  I remember the vivid details of that day as much as I do the morning of 9/11.  I like the idea that BP could’ve used this event as inspiration for a casque site.

maltedfalcon

except there isnt an image for that location lat/lon, Is there?

I know this is a possibility, we arent looking at plain text after all.

I stand corrected.

After some reconsideration i think the “4” is also part of another “3”.  I really believe it’s saying the 33rd state 45 lat and 122 long.

I’m considering a proofy (anything which might be taken as proof of being on the right track) which involves finding a plaque that talks about Native Indian dug-out canoes. I think the last line “To dig out,” might fit if you just play with the tense.

Some food for thought…
This is the side of NOMA that is closest (faces) the Duelling Oak:

More alignment thoughts
I magnified this photo and it shows the south end of a bridge. Looking along the side of the stone towards the water and beyond the railings across the water is another small bridge. I had thought of going to this small bridge but Google Streetview does not go inside the Sculpture Garden . Maybe there is a photo showing the view back towards the oak from the small bridge. I also drew a ruler line on Google Earth as before but this time extended further west towards the bridge. I think our required bearing points towards the south end of the bridge which is behind the bush in this view of the small bridge.
http://goo.gl/maps/yegwe
12 paces from west SIDE of stone. Also aligns with rear side of entrance building.

what i like about hampton park:
“The City of Charleston Park Permits”  is right there——“-get permission to dig out”
on 30 Mary Murray Drive
“Two twenty two——washington’s birthday—–“President Street”
“Moultrie Street”—-“weight and roots extended together saved the sight”
“Citadel in the Night”————“the Citadel”
it looks to be on “Addlestone Avenue”——-“stone”
this gazebo could be “the only standing member”
http://flickr.com/photos/mustangrolling/340803675/

of course the stone could just be somewhere around the gazebo  or where you get the park permits

I do not know if this has been talked about or not but the last line that said get permission to dig out could be the most helpful. If we need permission to dig out then he likely needed permission to burry the casque in the first place. This means that it is likely that someone knows this exact location. If we can find the location this verse ties into we may be able to find somebody that can lead us directly to the casque location or at least confirm the area.

Scottrocks:
*smacking my forehead*  WOW! it seems so simple, if you are right.  Has anybody ever thought about that line of logic yet?  I have been trying to read as far back as I can on these boards, but the number of theories people have proposed as started to co-mingle.  I do think if you are right that you would have to have a pretty good idea of where the casque is before you can even try to ask for permission.
So, has anybody thought of Scottrocks idea before?

I e-mailed this verse and image 2 to the South Carolina Historical Society. I said they can have atleast the key if they help us and we find the casque. I neede to do this because their research fees were kind of high. As of this writeing I have heard nothing.

guys just think of this verse with image 9………the dutch
Lane 222………..washington street by battery park
you’ll see an arc of lights—–statue of liberty?  broadway? ferries———–
minute of arc
weight and roots extended together saved the site———-
-battery park
of granite walls–wind swept halls–citadel in the night—
castle clinton
–
a wingless bird ascended (
men)
–born of ancient dreams of flight (
immigration
)————-
castle clinton, immigration center
beneath the only standing member of a
forest
to the south—–walloon settlers memorial (
deforest
)
white stone closest at twelve paces, from the west side (you have to be there)
get permission to dig out
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batter … ments/1647
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloons
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/batter … ghts/12796
http://www.defreest.com/familyhistory.html
found it interesting also that peter minuit was on the walloon page (look at his clothes), and the word minuit comes from the word minute, which is 1/60 of a degree or a minute of
arc
north west corner of battery park
bring it on guys…………i can handle it  ;D
just think about it……….and image 9 does have “73” in the hair

Lane
Two twenty two
I was wondering about Lane, La, LA, and came across
Room 222
, an old sitcom (1969-74) set in fictional Walt Whitman High School in LA.
Walt met a soldier returned from Fort Moultrie which prompted him to write a poem about
Osceola
.
(Bit of a long shot, but one of the main characters was played by African-American actress
Denise Nicholas
. She previously studied dance – girl with the frizzy hair…?)
You’ll see an arc of lights
This could refer to an “arc light”, or carbon-arc light, of the kind installed in the Sullivan’s Island lighthouse.
http://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=334
Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site
Of granite walls
Wind swept halls
Citadel in the night
A wingless bird ascended
Born of ancient dreams of flight
(…I like the Fort Moultrie / Poe balloon explanations for this…)
Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
Osceola (buried at Fort Moultrie) is a forest, and also an avenue on Sullivan’s Island.
I wondered if the only standing member of the forest might be something on Osceola Ave. Apparently the Stella Maris church at the south of the avenue was the only building on the island left standing after the civil war.
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM46 … h_Carolina
“Stella Maris” means “Star of the Sea”.
The gem is described as a “star” in the litany.
The flower is a daisy, or aster, which means “star”.
There’s a star on the Fort Sumter mask.
The lion is a symbol of Christ. There’s an “ABBOT” acrostic in the verse, and a cross in the lion’s hair:
White stone closest
At twelve paces
Here we have white stone which is close to a St. (Mary is perched on the roof.)
I was also wondering about the 12 white teeth on the Fort Sumter mask.
It looks like there might be six of these windows on either side of the church.

guys, I found a county road 222 in houston about 10 miles from NASA.
here’s a link to a map
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=By … s&resize=s
I live about 30 minutes from there.

Choice

Here are the available digital photos on SF library website sorted by date for Union Square:
https://tinyurl.com/y7tp4fqn

Thanks Choice– very helpful! I’ve written up some of my Union Square thoughts in the V6 thread, but it looks like that area’s changed a ton over the years.

Infact if you google earth the area you’ll see it was just a dirt field in early 2000.

if the route 222 is in PA, we may be in trouble.
http://www.222connections.com/
they are almost done digging that route up.
wilhouse

Well, if the route still exists and 222 is how to get to the site of the burial, I’d expect that the site itself remains…

Glossiphoniidae

… which is why I call it a “table.” This is also the second best “white stone” to me, thus the orange dot. Try as I might, I can’t find an angle of the table and the stone in the same picture. Can you? The picture would need to be post-1952.

I think this is our oak. If you look along the side of the crypt or table as you call it, then in my opinion you have a line towards the railings in the distance.

cw0909

anyone know what this 2 is about,near the tree
http://goo.gl/maps/kSDxW
some kind of #ing system, a 1 in the foreground, a 3 in the background, 4 in middle
and the 2 i showed
http://goo.gl/maps/irOsT

I haven’t been able to figure this one out. But, it seems that they appeared in 2007 as part of Katrina restoration near NOMA. I thought that they may have been part of the Sculpture Garden, but they seem to arrived much later than 2003 (when the Garden opened).

wk

Allard grave
http://neworleanshistorical.org/items/show/110
“In September 2011, the CPIA removed the grave after sonar imaging of the grave site determined the crypt to be empty.”
http://www.websitesneworleans.com/newor … /id33.html

… which is why I call it a “table.” This is also the second best “white stone” to me, thus the orange dot. Try as I might, I can’t find an angle of the table and the stone in the same picture. Can you? The picture would need to be post-1952.

Regarding locating a spot under this massive tree… I don’t suppose there’s a
human skull
nailed to one of those branches? That would narrow it down!

LOL! I had look at that before, but because a line of the code seemed to reference the charleston pic!
…main branch seventh limb east side …from the left eye of the death’s-head a bee line…

delete, was suppose to be in V-6

I have a new simpler and clearer version for all the references. In this verse.
It is mainly linear.
First line is first governor of the region. (Joseph Lane)
Second line is first scenic highway in the USA. (Highway No.2)
Third line is the first lit structure you can see at night. (Crown Point Vista House)
Fourth line is a memorial to the builders of this road. (Large boulder and plaque on a ziggurat of extending squares.)
Lines five six and seven describe the structure lit by the arc of lights.
Lines eight and nine describe the long dormancy of a volcano and the waking plume of its eruption. (The ash plume is wingless and all birds have plumage)
Lines ten and eleven describe the only large tree in the area of this scenic view point. (A noble fir)
This verse opens with a proper name for the man who first governed the Oregon Territory, which only narrows this down to a region occupied by the states of Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and part of Montana and Wyoming.  Then we have only to recognize that “Two” is State of Oregon Highway No.2 (1917-1992, in 1993 it became known as Highway 100).  Other options exist but none make as good a fit, such as: Washington’s SR220, parts of US Route 2 in Idaho, and sections in Montana and Wyoming are very unlikely.  The big WOW factor here is the extremely succinct fit given that the FIRST thing you see from this site at night is the ONE major historic site in the distance and then much farther in the distance the lights of the Bonneville Dam which are straight.  The arc of lights really says it all.  I’ve submitted a variety of pictures, but nothing says YES like actually being at this site, and that’s a big [YES].
So to summarize the process here, the verse first narrows things to a broad region in the Northwest, then gives a road number and mile marker and then the FIRST historic site that road takes you to quickly fits the description of an arc of lights, a citadel in the night, a single large tree, and is near several volcanoes:  nearest is Mt. Hood (30 miles), then Mt. St. Helens (46 miles), and Mt. Adams (60 miles).  I’m sure that Mt. Hood is the “white stone” and is justified by the lines in verse to do with a volcano.

Hmmm, the Forum is definitely a couple blocks off of Sherbrooke on saint Catherine.
To me, the PX7 is some kind of symbol we might find near the dig site. It isn’t obviously a 7 in my eyes… but of course I don’t have any better ideas.
One location I keep thinking of is the chateau apartments, on Sherbrooke near the art museum. It would fit the “citadel in the night” (but the walls are limestone not granite). It does have the stair step pattern inside the courtyard…

MrBackstop

And Josh I understand that you don’t agree with me on this, that’s okay. But let me ask you this, ” What balloon are you talking about that you interpret as the “wingless bird”?”

The balloon Josh was talking about was the Canada. On September 8, 1856, French aeronaut, Eugène Godard, operating a balloon called Canada (the first aircraft ever constructed in Canada), piloted the country’s first successful passenger flight, carrying three passengers from Montreal to Pointe-Olivier, Quebec.
Josh thought it was a hot-air balloon because Eugène Godard had a history with hot air balloons, I believe the original balloon he brought from Europe was damaged so he had to make a new one and the new one was actually a gas balloon filled with lamp gas (the stuff they used for lighting ), So this is the first aircraft/balloon every built in Canada.
That being said, there are several really good possibilities for Wingless bird Ascended in the area, Which one is correct? no idea, – the one that leads to a casque. Til we have that they are all possibilities, not sure things.

this is very obviously correct, as the path ive very clearly outlined for you guys takes you right past the spot where it lifted off…which you have to travel to to get around to the islands.

how could i be wrong when im so obviously right…indisputably so.
the top x clearly defines the block bw peel and mctavish (though i do agree with the secondary reading about the olympics)…Peel is written on the goddamn wall… (if you dispute this youre an idiot). period.
it clearly leads you S down peel, as pointed to by the place du canada…which is represented in teh painting by the garibaldi candelbra.
you then travel along the waterfront and go over the lachine and along that finger of land past habitat 67.
the connecting factor bw taking pie ix to olympic park and the islands is jean drapeau (who also oversaw the expos coming to mtl).
the puzzle takes you all over mtl but the treasure hunt takes you right to the islands.
you go from the two and the twenty to the 222 (raceway)…and then over to the island and s to the treasures location.
anyways im back there in a few days and will dig the best viable location…might take more extensive digging to reveal casque cause i cannot tell where the sign was located, as its gone.

I know where the jewel is for Verse 5. I believe it is paired with Image 3 (of the armored knight). And yes, I realize Roanoke Island is featured near the window.
At some point I’ll need to travel to get to North Carolina to find it… anyone want to strike a deal?

Welcome, Trunkflare. Would you care to explain your reasoning in pairing V5 with P3?

The verse actually has everything you need to find the site to dig… Image 3 is a great supporter of the text if you pull out the symbolism.  The two pieces actually don’t have much overlap other than symbolism and then the separate facts to identify the place.
Only hints which can be used TO PAIR the image and verse:
1) “Wingless bird” is a symbol for glider, which has powerless wings (hence symbolic “wingless”).  The knight’s arms are locked with braces, to parallel a glider.  The wingless bird also parallels the wingless fairy, ascending on a bubble.
2) “Citadel in the night” has a double meaning, representing a lighted tower in the night. Then the same tower is represented by the armored knight standing tall.
3) “Granite walls and wind swept halls” describes the background of Image 3 (and Image 11)… and is also relevant to the site of the treasures.
The rest of the facts just go hand in hand to identify the site and where it is buried.  (And by the way I think Preiss intended the hunters to find two of the jewels at once, both of which in close proximity using Image 3/Verse 5 and Image 11/Verse 11.)

welcome trunkflare
what img would you pair v3 to if not img 11
sorry dont mean to take it off topic, just wondering

I’ll work on it, but I’m not sure Verse 3 actually refers to Boston.
Regarding Image 11 (which shouldn’t be in this topic cw0909):
– I don’t think longitude and latitude correspond to the location of the buried casque.
– I don’t think #41 above the door is used for longitude/latitude. (Perhaps 1941)
– I think #112 is important to identify the site, but doesn’t correspond to a longitude/latitude. (Perhaps 112 people)
– I think #42 (or #24) could represent a few different things. (It can be both the day of a baptism and a death)
I’m not sure #71 is purposeful — although if it is, #71/#42 could represent a statue artist’s birthplace.

its pretty clear, you go from the stone to “under” the tree (doesnt have to be right at it) as we know its by a utility and where a sign once stood. the utility we have the sign is gone. im there again in two days for 77 fest

why a white stone? cause there are white stones left from the 67 exhibition all over isle st helenes, only two i saw were uncut though, and they are both on the south end. you cross over from notre dame to n end of isle st helenes and make your way s. see my map. look carefully.

a standing member often refers to someone in political office. in this case, jean drapeau, who centralized power on the municipal level to the executive committee, which oversaw and essentially controlled the standing committees that would oversee each particular department…in this context, we are looking mainly at his role overseeing construction projects for the 76 olympics 67 expo and bringing the expos to montreal.

Fenix

For those that care to humor me, let’s chat a bit about the last portion of the verse. Specifically these lines:
Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
I see most folks looking for a tree and a stone. Makes sense, right? I am not so sure about that.

Yeah, that can certainly make sense in a literal way. I just see BP using so many different metaphors or secondary meanings of words that make these puzzles such a great challenge.
For example, in the lines you mention, forest isn’t an actual group of trees but a “thick cluster of vertical objects”. I see the standing member as the tower of Olympic Stadium and the forest as all the other vertical objects (buildings in Olympic Park).
To the south
White stone closest (White Olympic Rings Stone wall)
At twelve paces (12 paces or stone sections on short wall of esplanade)
From the west side (Esplanade on the south side of Olympic Stadium)

the only standing member of a forest means a lone tree, doesnt have to have other vertical objects around it.

Unknown

Unknown:
This is exactly what I meant…

I know. When it came to finding things that helped you find other things, Preiss was surprisingly helpful. Unless that other thing was a casque of course.

the citadel is the FORMER location of the MONTREAL CITADEL on Isle St Helenes…

Fenix

I see most folks looking for a tree and a stone. Makes sense, right? I am not so sure about that.

I understand what you mean, but it just seems in the case of Montreal that there are good opportunities for this to actually be a tree, given the elm disease and the general clear cutting of Mount Royal etc… Also a white stone is a pretty reasonable blaze/marker.
Mitigating in your favor is that the Golden Square Mile has very few trees or stones at all, so I’m all for creative interpretation. What did you have in mind?

To me, the directions are confusing, because 12 paces to the west side is not all that precise. So maybe there is a specific white stone roughly 12 paces away from the tree (for the sake of argument, the only large elm left in a park) Then dig right at the stone?
Back to your question. What other member could be standing? One old mansion not torn down (as of 1980)? One statute standing with others laying down around it?

fox

Really?

I think so.  Have you seen the map contours of the FOY comparing the same shape?  A map of rough contours vs a real photo of an object that fits several references with relative ease? The marker says “50-ton boulder” = a weight, it sits on three square platforms extending, one larger than the next, the plaque dedicates it to two men for preserving the site of Americas first scenic highway = together saved the site.  I have no doubts.  I don’t think you can stand by your remark long ago that you could find any rock in the desert that looks as similar.  There’s many more factors to consider beyond your limited ability to recognize shapes.

erexere

Just think, I had the right area and its taken me a couple years to puzzle out the details.

Really?

I agree. Why would they want it or even need it?

If you dug and found the skeletons of Raleigh, Octave Chanute, and a mysterious four-armed creature with several heads frozen forever in their last Flamenco Dance forever, they might take issue with you keeping them… But the Egg-man wasn’t forced to give up his casque…(koo koo kachoo).

I just sent this information to my aunt who lives a few hours northwest of Charlston. Told her briefly about the discoveries made at Ft. Moultre. I am not makeing any promises but I hope we can find this casque before my other aunt from California comes in May. Finding this casque could get her to help us find the San Francsisco casque.
It is possible we will have to let the NPS keep the Casque and key to let us dig. As long as they display them for all to see I personally do not care.

Why would they want it?  Especially as you could EASILY persuade them that it was just junk, especially when an antique appraiser will tell you that it’s value is almost purely sentimental since it is only about 25 years old, and deliberately buried…

If you want to make a journey out of this verse, the most obvious path seems to start at the right end of Poe Ave (great balloon hoax) next to the lighthouse (arc of lights), and lead to the other end by the fort (past Citadel St).
(The view at this point reminded me of the lion’s eyebrows.)
From there, it’s a short step to Osceola (the forest), where the Stella Maris or “Star of the Sea” makes an appropriate finish for this lighthouse trail.

boog, good luck.
I will tell you that on my first trip to hermann park, I was told that I would never be able to dig in the zoo!!
wilhouse

Here’s what I found out today.  Those park rangers I had spoken to on Saturday were incorrect.  The only part of the park that is federal property is Castle Clinton itself.  The rest of Battery Park is owned by the city.  Naturally, when steared to the right people, they seemed very intiqued.  I may be in there with permission and shovel soon.  Pics tomorrow (working 16 hrs tomorrow, maybe Wednesday).

testing post

test

Well, I believe I pegged the lion image (Image 2? 3?) to be Charleston, SC, so perhaps the obvious “Citadel” clue is correct!  222 may not be a road.  That also seems to be obvious.

do we know enough to put together a table with something like:
verse   image   lat / long / city  key clues?
wilhouse

Lane Two Twenty-Two, refers to February 22nd, 2nd month twenty-second day.  Ya know what holiday is on that date?
President George Washington’s Birthday.  I think there is a Washington Ln.St.Rd.Dr.Pkwy.  something.
sorry if this has already been stated.  I believe this to be the answer, there is a Washington St. near Charlotte St. Calhoun St. near the Maritime Center.

Hands up, my fault, I’ve made the change. Sorry  ;D
Mark

Let’s reel this thread back in.
After taking a long break from Verse 5, I started looking at it again and came across some info that I find pretty compelling regarding the wingless bird. I had previously posted an Art Deco image that was on display at the Museum of Fine Arts:
Looking into this a bit more, you can see the R-100 on the side of the blimp. This blimp was flown from the UK to Montreal and arrived at the Saint-Hubert Airport on August 1, 1930. Some called it the Titanic of the skies, which in hindsight was not great moniker. It was a huge event and spurred a bunch of economic development and arguably changed Montreal. Here are some articles:
https://welweb.org/ThenandNow/R-100.html
http://hughdoherty.tripod.com/r100.htm
https://www.sscpn.org/south-shore-histo … visit.html

Fenix

I’ve read about this flight as well. You’re right, it was a very big deal.

Thoughts on whether this is what the verse is referring to?

Fenix

I’ve read about this flight as well. You’re right, it was a very big deal.

so did i…and it points you toward the right answer of the clue in the verse being the first balloon created in canada leaving from griffintown. good job gman. finally y’all are coming round lol.

da vinci doesnt point to fine arts museum it points to man of the world where a flight exhibit and da vinci exhibit were held in the place de nations after 67.

Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site
Of granite walls
Wind swept halls
Citadel in the night
Although people have looked at Charleston’s Hampton Park, they don’t seem to have looked at it much in the context of this verse. So, just a quick observation that the place is a few blocks from Sumter St (Fort Sumter mask), it used to have a zoo with a lion, it’s close to the Citadel, and also close to the US Post Office which has granite walls.

It could definitely be linked to any sort of flying object without wings. That’s why the second part of my theory (the landmarks in the park) are just some random hints, I’m absolutely not sure about them. Maybe everything is in Chinatown as pointed out by the image.
Still the references to the Granite windswept citadel, the arc light and the “survived the earthquake” really gave me shivers. There’s need of San Francisco locals for a feedback about this!

Verse 5 belongs with image 12 – new york. The wingless bird is the woman in the image – look at it – she is literally hovering or floating “ascending” above the water.

Hi guys, I guess we’re done with verse 5. Please let welcome verse 2 and stop wasting your energy on the wrong poem =P (hopefully!)
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7362

For whatever it’s worth and to whatever city it may tie to:
A wingless bird ascended
Born of ancient dreams of flight…
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7258&start=285#p145285
:
“Wingless bird” – if you translate it directly, it means “bird without wings”. But, for instance, “iron horse” is motorcycle…(apparently he’s trying to show it’s not a literal bird without wings.) You could think of what a wingless bird could refer to. In Japan, you can see this thing very easily (as also in other places; not a special Japanese thing).
Could these lines point to a rocket? It’s been mentioned in this forum before…
“A BRIEF HISTORY OF ROCKETRY. PART 1: HOW ANCIENT DREAMS TOOK TO THE SKY”
http://sen.com/features/history-of-rocketry-part-1

sorry for all the pointless ‘test’ replies… not sure how to delete them.

Unknown

Unknown:
sorry for all the pointless ‘test’ replies… not sure how to delete them.

I wouldn’t worry too much about them figbear. Fully 85%* of the posts on here are pointless in retrospect, as there have been a lot of false starts, random nonsense, and dead ends. Unfortunately, since only two casques have been recovered to date, I can’t tell you which 15% is relevant. Toward that end, I would encourage you to read the Image and Verse threads associated with the puzzle that you are working on, just to see what has already been discussed. It might save you some time, and help you to more fully understand the puzzle from people who have been at it for a long time. For example, there no longer seems to be too much debate about the city/verse/image connection. Whether you agree with the consensus is another matter, but it’s still a good place to start if you are looking for a general understanding of how we think the puzzles are supposed to work. I would also encourage you to read the “Newcomers” thread (currently on Page 2), if you haven’t already. Again, a lot of nonsense, but also some good advice.
Good luck, and welcome to the hunt.
*a number that I just made up.

Bump.

“You’ll see an arc of lights”
http://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=334
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/d3e24/1/
The white stone must be on the ground and probably
not going to find a photo.

Fenix

and you make ignorant comments about things not translating to Canadian which basically insults an entire country. Let us know when you are finished with your witch hunt and I will stop looking to beat you over the head with my broom.

Syrup, suryp, bags of milk, im soory.
Get raked, Goldengate.

I’ll see about getting that period map even though I’m already most certain the exits along that corridor have been based on the mile marker posts, mile 22 in this case, since before 1980.  I remember the previous exit number specifically because my dad would turn there almost daily.  Im not saying I know which exit numbering system was in use or if any exits had changes, but i do know 100% that exit 17 (and mile 17) was in place as early as 1978, because he would have me wait in the car while he would place bets at the dog track.  Based on that I think its a good assumption the next exit was also based on milepost.

erexere

Two twenty-two
Highway, No.2 and Exit, No.22.

Minor problem here, While popular on the east coast, most western states did not have exit numbers in the 80s
They were added in 1995 due to Federal highway guidlines,  and at that point the states that did have numbers had to re-number them due to changes in the way the federal govt required numbers to be applied.
These changes were mandated or the states wouldnt get highway funds
I can remember in california it was 1995 when exit numbers were first used.
I believe Oregon and Washington were the same.
For this to fit you would need to show a period map with the exit number  22 indicated.

why, do Illinois and Ohio’s state’s numbers get referenced in their images?

maltedfalcon

why, do Illinois and Ohio’s state’s numbers get referenced in their images?

I don’t think they do.  I think they both use the states shape instead.  Image 6 fools us in looking like Florida, but it’s not as good a match as Illi ois or Ohio.  Do you think they are very good matches or rough around the edges?

But then among other things, you have to overcome the two known exact site confirmers.
ie. the statue of Ponce in the FOY park matches the conquistador on the rock
and the shape of the small rock matches the inlet just to the east of the FOY park.
Its not just the shape of FL in the image.
it is many many many small things that add up to FOY park or its immediate area.
To even get me to consider this being somewhere else you would have to explain away an awful lot,  and personally I hate the idea of one being in FOY it doesnt make sense to me that he would bury it on private property when there is a public park 100 yards away…

The exit numbers dont show on the 1980 AAA map.  The exit was in fact marked by milepost 22 along historic highway 2 but both points are less prominent according to supporting documents from 1980.  The I-84 was overlapping and replacing the 80N designation.  Highway No.2 wasnt signed and the only common reference came from older maps and postcards.  In terms of scenic noteriety, several sources would serve the purpose of bringing this No.2 highway to light: the reports of Lewis and Clark and the history of the Oregon Trail might stand as the most significant to the literary or historical minded, or the famous scenes of the Columbia such as the Crown Point Vista House or the Mitchell Tunnel and some of Americas first succesful asphalt roadways might appeal to the tourist.

So, I had a thought. When you Google “jockey statue” and look at the images, every single one looks like the boy on the image.
If the boy most closely (IMHO) resembles the guy on the “cup,” then why is he also clearly representing a jockey? Maybe that is where the horse’s head in the image comes in… we should look for horses at that cup.
Right next to you would be a mural of horses, only one of which is standing. Interesting, the wall has two words on it: “WEST” and “STVART”. The “V” in start is directly above the standing-horse’s head.
The clock splits the “V” in half. Stand directly under the “V” in “STVART, which is also directly beneath the only standing horse. I’m sure by now you’ve noticed the “V” is embedded in “START”.
Take 12 paces from the “WEST” side at the starting point and then “STOP”… Get permission to dig out.
Notice the checkerboard?

i like it better as a riddle, like in “here is where you get the park permit”, right there at hampton park.
forest_blight aren’t you close to charleston?
i think most parks you have to get permission anyway, so why tell us to on this one verse and not the others?

Unknown

Unknown:
forest_blight aren’t you close to charleston?

Don’t I wish! I absolutely love Charleston. Alas, I live in Kansas.

Forrest:
I somehow would have guessed that you were in the northeast.  You seem to know the Boston search so well I thought you were in the area, or an hour or two away.  Even that far away I’m grateful for the way you keep helping me form ideas.

Thanks to Al Gore and his internets (and Google Earth!) I am now passingly familiar with several big cities

AHHH…
Well, for a non-local you come across with an air of expertise.  Beyond that you’ve so far been a great sounding board for the few thin theories I can come up with [and I do appologize if I’ve accidently repeated theories].  I’m working out some thoughts I wish I could bounce off you but that I need to sleep on as they are not fully formed in my mind yet.  Until then.  –Ringo

Something interesting… and JamesV did post a picture of this spot in the image 2 thread.
Mugdock Castle on Sullivan’s Island. Near the Fort, Stella Maris church and the WWII Memorial. Apparently the castle is made of 2 foot thick Georgia granite and has two areas within it that are referred to as “Summer Hall” and “Winter Hall”. A lot of history about this spot as well.
Worth a look:
http://www.castlemugdock.com/history/
Regards,
Mac

Macfos

Something interesting… and JamesV did post a picture of this spot in the image 2 thread.
Mugdock Castle on Sullivan’s Island. Near the Fort, Stella Maris church and the WWII Memorial. Apparently the castle is made of 2 foot thick Georgia granite and has two areas within it that are referred to as “Summer Hall” and “Winter Hall”. A lot of history about this spot as well.
Worth a look:
http://www.castlemugdock.com/history/
Regards,
Mac

I posted a proposed solution for Verse 5 and Image 9 in the Image 9 thread. I don’t think Verse 5 goes with anything else.

Looking at the lines:
Lane
Two twenty two
Lane and Two twenty two look to be seperated and each with it’s own meaning and not nessessarily intended as Lane 222.
2/22- Feb. 22  Washington’s birthday.
For ex.  On Feb 22, 1877, Congress okayed the use of Bedloe’s Island to be used for the future site of Lady Liberty.
Probably not relevant but it is curious.

That’s a really good observation, boogie. Perhaps that part of the verse refers to “Washington Lane” or “Washington Boulevard” or some such. Given your suggestion, I don’t think it’s coincidental that
Washington Street
terminates at the Battery just north of Castle Clinton. There is another Washington St. less than a block away from that church we found in Jersey City, too. Food for thought.
Street names, by the way, seem to be a running theme in The Secret. We’ve noted many (Locust, Bellflower, Congress, Baum, etc.), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see one here as well.

Ok, FB.  I like
your
observation, I found this of Battery Park at night. Schroll down.( I like that quote by Colette!)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … D%26sa%3DN
This may be our “arc of lights”.

Their website said it could take several weeks to get information. It was top guy I e-mailed. If I do not hear from them shortly I will try the Charlston Historical Society if I can find the right one there are alot of them most focus on a paticular old house or part of town.

An air of expertise…?…  Do tell  😉

If they do not work with me I will try the Charlston Historical Society they sound the same but they are not. This verse most likely goes with Charlston and an organization like this could help us decode it.

I tried PAYING the S.C. Historical Society for help a few months ago, and never heard back from them.

Happy “Two Twenty Two” day to everyone.
Has anyone tried to google “Washington Lane” with any of the other clues from this verse?

What is your suggestion?

There are all sorts of combinations.  You can google the words Washington, “granite walls,” hall, citadel, flight, and white.  It would be a lot of work to sort through all of the results, but you may find something.

hey slappy, are you trying to put img 9 at battery park,with v5, or
v5 at battery pk with img 12, sorry slappy iv read the post 3Xs, and
im confused

cw, i was trying this verse with image 9, the dutch image.
but believe me i was confusing myself some and getting them mixed up, i kept wanting to add stuff that went with image 12 also.
i do like the line “a wingless bird ascended –born of ancient dreams of flight”   to mean immigration, castle clinton, but maybe it means the border? for canada? (lol, i like my own ideas
)
so i’m just mixing them up, to see what happens, maybe next, image 9 with verse 10………..
trinity church is straight up from battery park (church steeple, hands in image)
ummm, i just noticed image 9 has that V thing done with the fingers, so maybe it does go with verse 10
somewhere near a golf couse maybe with the dogleg and golf flags  🙂
and i think that’s a man (in the image) (lol) with a hat……………man-hat-tan  )
okay, will start posting on image 9

It is a bunch of reporters the governing bodies of most of these parks do not want. Thus useing their help at locations we are fairly certain are the correct locations can be helpful. These groups are not likely to call a media circus.
And hey a media circus may not be such a bad thing it would get a whole lot more people involved in this hunt.

Greeaaaat.  LOL.  There may be a case or two where it is unavoidable (getting permission may involve telling someone WHY you need it), but it’s inadvisable.  Media circus aside, you wouldn’t want someone hearing about it, the digging it up and NOT saying a word to any one would you?

scottrocks7

The thing is this is part of the National Park System. Does anybody know when it became part of the NPS. Does nayone know who administered it prier to the NPS and has anybody written the NPS for help. Did the NPS run this in the early 80’s
The clock that looks lie Ft. Sumpter could be clueing you into this area. If we can get the NPS to help they can likely hlep us pinpoint this casques location. If we find this casque we can eliminate Halifax as a possible site for the Canadian Casque.

I gotta ask, scott, how do you think the NPS can help to pinpoint this casque location?  If it was not part of the NPS when BP buried the casque, I think the possibility of them having any information about it would be extremely remote.  Especially since he didn’t tell anyone where he buried the casques.  If it was a part of the NPS at the time, then the possibility is even more remote as I think it is crime to dig in a NP so I think he wouldn’t have mentioned it to them.

digger7

I gotta ask, scott, how do you think the NPS can help to pinpoint this casque location?  If it was not part of the NPS when BP buried the casque, I think the possibility of them having any information about it would be extremely remote.  Especially since he didn’t tell anyone where he buried the casques.  If it was a part of the NPS at the time, then the possibility is even more remote as I think it is crime to dig in a NP so I think he wouldn’t have mentioned it to them.

Forgive me for saying this … but in another thread…
A treasure hunter (I forget who – at the moment) spent a full day last spring and fully explored Sullivan’s Island and
Fort Moultrie and discussed with NPS about the possibility.
He found the white stone (a property bounder marker)
He found a lone south tree (tweleve paces in from the boundary)
He found the map – that matches the scheme of the mask – east of the lone tree.
He found that it is just in from L’ON Street
Spot was undisturbed and not erroded.
He found that it was possible to secretly dig there in 1981. (coming in from the beach)
He also found that TODAY he would get arrested if he had – a shovel
a probe
ground penetrating radar
etc.
I encourage others to re-read his account.  It is thorough, accurate, and complete.
He didn’t get permission, so he didn’t pull it up.

This all sounds intresting I will have to review that thread. The NPS may be able to help us decode the rest of the verse and could advise us of any changes that may have taken place. BP would not have told the NPS anything. I may try to get my aunt who lives a few hours away from Charlston to try to find it but I am not making any promises. If they can find that one then my relatives that live in the San Fransisco area may be more helpful on that casque. They thought it was rediculuss I do not think they understood it.
My next focus will be the Florida Casque if we can definately match that image and verse we can eliminate St. John Newfundland as a Canadian site and thus greatly increase the likelyhood that Image 11 is the Canadian Casque image.
One last thing: we may have to let the NPS keep the Casque to get them to let us dig there.

Unless you want to discover a one-foot square hole, about three feet deep, surrounded by reporters, it would probably be best to keep it to yourself, except to ask very generalized trivia-type questions about the area.  Also, for those of you talking about renting ground probes, radars, bomb-sniffing dogs, CSI’s, and infrared x-ray glasses, (:)), I can at least give you a good idea for something cheap and effective that is easily obtained:  from my days in Serbia, I picked up a very interesting piece of mine detection equipment- a mine probe.  The actual device is only about 1.5 ft long, but you can get a long skinny spike made out of ceramic for dirt cheap.  It actually doesn’t do anything– you just stick it into the ground (slowly!) at about a 35 degree angle, and when it hits something solid, you gently ‘scrape’ the side of the object; you can tell if it is made of plastic, stone, wood, metal, etc. by the feel.  The probe itself just has to be solid.  One of the things that held up Egbert was his false-positives on hollow objects.  “Tap Tap Thunk! There it is!  Oh wait–tree root.”  You want to avoid using anything thicker than, say, a pen.

I did some checking and I would agree that this is likely Fort Moltair or that area. The thing is this is part of the National Park System. Does anybody know when it became part of the NPS. Does nayone know who administered it prier to the NPS and has anybody written the NPS for help. Did the NPS run this in the early 80’s
The clock that looks lie Ft. Sumpter could be clueing you into this area. If we can get the NPS to help they can likely hlep us pinpoint this casques location. If we find this casque we can eliminate Halifax as a possible site for the Canadian Casque.

erexere

So, on Christmas Eve, I’ll be heading up to Washington for a special project, I’ll remember to take a detour at the exit lane 22 and I’ll take a photo from the exact angle BP surely used 30 years ago.  Then you can look at it and decide how you feel about tiny insignificant tourist sites in tiny little towns.

Still waiting for that pic.  Have to agree with shecrab once again.  How can this NOT be Foy?  FL’s outline sure looks pretty good to me…right down to the gem being where FL’s gem, Lake Okeechobee, is.
We have a Verse that leads us to Foy….we have a Image that leads us to Foy…. why is everyone so intent on steering away from Foy?
This is one of the few times we have both a V and an I leading us (independently) to the same location.

Thanks for the reminder.  I had a fantastic time going over some alternate ideas and I did get a better altitude angle pic of the boulder, but it wasn’t as perfect as I had hoped.  I’ll be happy to load it for you later tonight.  By no means am I trying to be insistent on anything being anti-foy.  It’s just an alternative to consider.  I have to say everything falls in place as I see it and it felt really solid.  The white peak of mount hood was again obscured by clouds *grumble*, but luckily I had my spendy little GPS configured to point directly to Elliott Glacier and it led me to the exact stone that happens to perfectly fit a twelve pace walk to the exact line that I theorized would lay on the path to the casque spot.  It’s an intersection that happens amidst lots of obstructions between stones and asphalt only to land on a perfect little plot of grass.  Standing on that spot and looking around it looks absolutely perfect as a spot that would serve the method I think described by BP’s verse and Palencar’s image.

There’s a rock feature in Bandon that fits an old Native American tale and it’s called Face Rock.  It’s primarily viewed from a specific angle that makes it look like a giant face keeping constant watch of the sky.  I’ve been delving into another Native American myth that shares the same motif in personification.  I’m fascinated by the similarities here.  If I’m right, then this image and it’s FOY-theory counterpart as a red herring is a real doozie.
I’m standing on the 3ft tall stone now, so this image is a little different than those shared previously,
I walk to the first ring stone in line with Mt. Hood’s white peak, which puts me to the west side.  I then walk 12 paces North by compass and it puts me EXACTLY on the line from which the image above was taken.  I just walked normally without any exaggeration to make anything fit.  It just came out perfectly on spot,
My daughter and I doing a practice dig as a demonstration to the archaeologist in charge of the site so we can get real permission,

Wow, that’s actually a pretty good match to the rock in the image. I’m impressed.

FYI, the magnetic compass declination used for 1980 is different than that of 2012 by almost 4 degrees.
I used 20 degrees E as my deviation from True North.  It seemed obvious as the way to go when I realized a True North heading put me on a not so good spot.

WhiteRabbit

Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
Get permission
To dig out
The word “closest” has always bothered me; seems an odd word, and unnecessary, since the directions are apparently quite clear about which stone it is. “Twelve paces from the west side” is already much more specific.
Since we think BP uses inscriptions in stone elsewhere, I wondered if this might be a stone with the word “closest” on it. Eg, at the African/American cemetery, or in the grounds of Stella Maris…? I know we’re told there’s nothing buried in a graveyard, but I don’t know what state that cemetery was in back in 1982 (possibly abandoned), or whether 12 paces could put you safely at the perimiter.
http://www.lat34north.com/HistoricMarke … 20Cemetery
(It’s at Station 22 1/2. Maybe “Lane 222” could be a pun on “lain” and 22.)
Would be interested if any local could check the inscriptions in these places anyway, just in case.
Looks like there’s not much left there now, but could also maybe take a wander round, eg, Magnolia…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnolia_C … h_Carolina
)

Good call on the African American cemetery…I can take a look next time I’m that way.
Honestly, (if we are talking V5 with Charleston) “Lane” is the line of that verse that I can’t see a solid fit for. So, for “Lane”, there could be:
-road lanes
-signs that literally say lane
-person’s name
-there is Longitude Lane off of East Bay St on the peninsula
(Longitude Ln, Charleston, SC 29401
Link:
)
Any other ideas?
Also, just a note, that the Magnolia cemetery is in a part of town I wouldn’t wander around in after dark…or by myself…or without carrying something…catch my drift?

tjgrey

“Lane” is the line of that verse that I can’t see a solid fit for. So, for “Lane”, there could be:
-road lanes
-signs that literally say lane
-person’s name
-there is Longitude Lane off of East Bay St on the peninsula
Any other ideas?

There’s a Sea Breeze Lane on Sullivan’s not far from Moultrie. The sign says “Sea Breeze” and “Osceola”.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=charle … 9,,2,11.81
Doesn’t seem especially significant, though I guess there aren’t many. The relevant section in the intro talks about the Southern Trades, which is basically a sea breeze.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_wind
“…wafted away on the Southern Trades and fluttered down like a windfall of butterflies…”
http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/fet … et_OCR.pdf
Might be worth wandering up to the end…can’t see it on Google maps. But it could just be a clue for the general area.

Great! I will add that to my to-do list!
So from what I’ve gathered, the consensus is that this verse should go with Charleston or Montreal? Has there been a significant “Lane” discovered there?

We can’t be sure that this is the right verse, but I don’t think there’s any general agreement on pairing it with any other specific site.
All I remember is that V6 is considered a plausible alternative for Charleston with its pirates and its May 1913, which I guess would leave Image 9 as the main candidate for a “spare” alternative image for this verse.

Ok. Just trying to deduce…
Also, take a look at the note under the diagram in this brochure. I had no idea that parts of the fort/batteries were or could be privately owned. “Get permission to dig out”?
http://www.nps.gov/fosu/planyourvisit/u … Jasper.pdf

Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
Get permission
To dig out
The word “closest” has always bothered me; seems an odd word, and unnecessary, since the directions are apparently quite clear about which stone it is. “Twelve paces from the west side” is already much more specific.
Since we think BP uses inscriptions in stone elsewhere, I wondered if this might be a stone with the word “closest” on it. Eg, at the African/American cemetery, or in the grounds of Stella Maris…? I know we’re told there’s nothing buried in a graveyard, but I don’t know what state that cemetery was in back in 1982 (possibly abandoned), or whether 12 paces could put you safely at the perimiter.
http://www.lat34north.com/HistoricMarke … 20Cemetery
(It’s at Station 22 1/2. Maybe “Lane 222” could be a pun on “lain” and 22.)
Would be interested if any local could check the inscriptions in these places anyway, just in case.
Looks like there’s not much left there now, but could also maybe take a wander round, eg, Magnolia…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnolia_C … h_Carolina
)

Where was I? Oh yeah, Stella Maris. I love this place.
Hands at 12 and 4. Stella Maris is at No. 1204.
Flip Fort Sumter upside down and…hey presto. Well, almost.
No…? OK, try this. Turn it sideways and…
Note the brown vertical bar to the right of the building, plus…that’s a flagpole just south of the church.
The Fort Sumter mask may not have the Stars and Stripes, but it’s got a star and a stripe. And that’s a start.

If you can show me that the small white square thing to the left of the building shown in the aerial shot is a sundial, you may be onto something…..lol

Sundials? You want sundials now?

Unknown

Unknown:
Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site
Of granite walls
Wind swept halls
Citadel in the night

Not even bothering to look up any facts here, but rereading this passage in a Texas slant…where is the Alamo located?
BTW, “roots extended” could well be a pun on “routes” so if there is an extension on Cty Rd 222…

tjgrey

So at this point, here’s my opinion on why Verse 5 is NOT Charleston, SC.
(And for more than one reason, I had hoped this site worked out…)
That’s my $0.02. If anyone can rule my ‘eliminations’ here out, I’m all ears.

You are very right, IMHO. The problem with letting go is that the area and proposed dig locations are ripe with subjectively interpreted clues. I dunno. I am still chewing on it.
As a side note and quite related, I’ve been stumped by some of the same lines as you. So, I’ve tried applying them to all the locations. Then, I tried looking at commonalities between individual verse lines and the associated (or non-associated) image clues (e.g., these lines describe a place, but no image confirmer; these lines describe a place confirmed in the image; these lines describe only interpret-able jointly with the image; these lines are a road; etc.).
A long story, and a bit of trial-error comparison and grouping later (of which I will spare you the details), I’m left with several lines from various verses that absolutely make no sense, that I cannot group because I have no idea what they are. It dawned on me that one of the lines could be describing something in an image – like Roanoke’s,
to the land near the window
– a line or two that could only be interpreted jointly with
a single
image. Not something that you could find on a map or in a book.
I had a look around at all the cities with the above in mind, Verse 5 and the New Orleans image stuck out…
You’ll see an arc of lights
… Much like the line,
to the land near the window
, maybe it is a completely unique clue that we cannot make heads or tails of without joining the correct image. In only one image can we
see an arc of lights
.
Dig around a bit if you’re interested, or ask me to expand. I’ve found some very tempting clues next to the Superdome that I’d love to describe. Anyhow, I’m tossing my coins in the pot.

Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
Get permission
To dig out.
12 paces from the west side of the white stone below the last of the duelling trees?
12 paces from the west side of the white stone at the south of the tree?

“Only one of the legendary Duelling Oaks remains standing on the duelling grounds today.” – McDonogh’s grounds, the last of the duelling trees located within a forest. The park is home to the oldest grove of mature live oaks in the world.

wk another view
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/l … 28b406.JPG

Using Google Earth and selecting historic view 3/31/2006 which shows the angle of the Allard white stone, then it is possible to draw a 24 foot line towards the fence using the ruler. Note that this is slightly less than 90 degrees (clock on image?) and NOT west of the stone.

Of interest. In “The Gold Bug” by Poe they talk of a treasure that was “paced out from a tree” after “dropping a bug through a gold skull”. Seems to match the verse and also the gold mask in P2. Again Poe was on Sullivans in the Army and the island just before entering Sullivans is named Gold Bug Island since 1957.
Also found a location on an old map at Fort Moultries called “Mark Tree”.
Thoughts??
Regards,
Mac

The triangle from pie IX Olympic Stadium area to Peel to the islands is a huge area to cover in a walking tour. I think this has been mentioned before, but my first concern with this approach (putting aside individual clue interpretation) is that it is simply too far. Chicago was much shorter, correct?

bignate

The triangle from pie IX Olympic Stadium area to Peel to the islands is a huge area to cover in a walking tour. I think this has been mentioned before, but my first concern with this approach (putting aside individual clue interpretation) is that it is simply too far. Chicago was much shorter, correct?

I believe so… if you start at the Water Tower and head south on Michigan Ave to Grant Park /Congress Pkwy /the Bowman, it’s about 1.7 miles…add a bit more, to go through the park to the dig site. If you start at the Bowman statue /Congress Pkwy (which is what they did), then it’s a considerably shorter walk (obviously).

i don’t know if this will work , but i know of a 222 with really good prime rib, near a bend to the south..this is near the town of the golden dome, ND… i do believe chris columbus was one of the first students to attend here..

Trunkflare

I’ll work on it, but I’m not sure Verse 3 actually refers to Boston.
Regarding Image 11 (which shouldn’t be in this topic cw0909):
– I don’t think longitude and latitude correspond to the location of the buried casque.
– I don’t think #41 above the door is used for longitude/latitude. (Perhaps 1941)
– I think #112 is important to identify the site, but doesn’t correspond to a longitude/latitude. (Perhaps 112 people)
– I think #42 (or #24) could represent a few different things. (It can be both the day of a baptism and a death)
I’m not sure #71 is purposeful — although if it is, #71/#42 could represent a statue artist’s birthplace.

right i moved this to, so as to stay on topic
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h … 822#p98822
sorry for any confusion

Unknown

Unknown:
I am not so sure about that.

People are going to interpret the lines you’ve highlighted based on what they are sure of. Once upon a time, they were looking for those things in cities across North America, including New York and New Orleans because that’s where they thought to apply this verse in general. More recently, people are looking to apply them to things in and around Montreal because that’s the way the puzzle has evolved. Me, I don’t think they’ll ever make sense until we know for sure where in Montreal we need to be looking. “Standing member” is just too generic to be helpful, just like “four alike”, “proud, tall fifth”, or the bane of my existence, “last touched Or first seen standing”.

Unknown

Unknown:
There are reasonable alternatives for those “replaced verses” that can easily be reassigned to another city.

No doubt. But in order to be fully compelling, you have to account for the verse you replaced. With the 10 remaining unsolved puzzles, there are 100 unique combinations if you are merely throwing darts. Since you can eliminate some of them, your number is most likely smaller, but even if you have it down to 5 unresolved verses, that’s still 25 unique combinations.
I would ask you to consider what sets a combination in stone for you, and then see if you can apply the same methodology to the unresolved verses. Because as we have been reminded recently, you can use just about any verse to explore just about any city, including cities that we are pretty sure don’t contain a casque. And while I don’t claim to have all the answers, one thing that I am 100% sure about is that no part of this puzzle was not meant to be solved by trial and error.
Note: I’m pretty sure Merlot already knows all of this. So mostly, this post is for others who may still be floundering.

Unknown

Unknown:
one thing that I am 100% sure about is that no part of this puzzle was not meant to be solved by trial and error.

My bad. That sentence should read “no part of this puzzle was meant to be solved by trial and error”. I blame Trump and his double negatives for the error.

Renovator, I understand your point. However it seems to me that the 2 casques were found by some amount of trial and error.
Sure, we shouldn’t have blinders on and assume that we have the verses assigned to the right cities. But at the same time it is important to rely upon all the work that has been done up to this point over the years (on this forum) to narrow the search as much as it has.
I for one feel pretty convinced that verse 5 is Montreal and will proceed with my knucklehead ideas because nothing else looks as promising. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I’ll be in good company and would be happy to admit it when the time comes.
Now, in the spirit of me charging ahead on my blind alley: what on earth could be “wind swept halls” in the Golden Square Mile area of Montreal??? I mean, not a lot of open-air Spanish villas in sight. Could it mean a painting in the museum of art? (Along with one with granite walls?)

Euhirudinea

I blame Trump and his double negatives for the error.

So… Fake No’s…

Unknown

Unknown:
Renovator, I understand your point.

Not sure you do, since I have been clear on the fact that I don’t doubt for one minute that not only have we identified the correct cities, but we also have the correct Verse/Image connections as well. My comment was directed at those who have less confidence in those connections, in their entirety.
I will address your point that the first two were solved using a certain amount of trial and error, and while that’s true, I don’t think they needed to be. And I think that the information gleaned from just those two puzzles should be enough to solve the third, completely. Or would have been back in the day. Unfortunately, Preiss is gone and apparently, he took his secrets with him. As such, trial and error is what we have left. But that’s different from saying that’s the way they were meant to be solved.
Good luck on your search.

Euhirudinea

People are going to interpret the lines you’ve highlighted based on what they are sure of. Once upon a time, they were looking for those things in cities across North America, including New York and New Orleans because that’s where they thought to apply this verse in general. More recently, people are looking to apply them to things in and around Montreal because that’s the way the puzzle has evolved. Me, I don’t think they’ll ever make sense until we know for sure where in Montreal we need to be looking. “Standing member” is just too generic to be helpful, just like “four alike”, “proud, tall fifth”, or the bane of my existence, “last touched Or first seen standing”.

I just posted in the latest, latest, latest new thread about New York. Temped in the stylings of Drunk Nerds to just quote this into a new thread about “lets re-think the verses”
That is a serious concern I have though. I’m not willing to lock down the verses in a way so many are. My particular hang up is with verse 10 being the given NY solution. There are not ridiculous ways to reassign a few of the ambiguous verses to try some different ones in NY.
I’m not going so far as to lay down canards like whoever thinks the Houston verse is actually for NY, but I fail to get why the last couple of unsure verses.
Certainly Octave/the exact quote from the wright bros is Image 3, etc. But we have ambiguity in Twain, even. Seems to me there are some people finding some compelling (maybe a generous term) visual connections and then trying to ram them through with what we always thought the verse was. Certain things are set in stone with verse/image matchings; Some certainly are: St Augustine for example, but I’m open for interpretation a little bit when it comes to some others that AREN’T set in stone like a Houston or St. Augustine, Roanoke, etc.
e: Try Charleston or New Orleans with the “Grey Giant” as a Confederate General, or try Montral with the “Grey Giant” being the Montreal Alouettes (The Grey Cup being the CFL equivalent of the Lombardi trophy). There are reasonable alternatives for those “replaced verses” that can easily be reassigned to another city.
Don’t forget the Boer War monument in Dorchester Square, which has always been very interesting to me for a long time that I have many posts about going back years. Someone else might have used that in their recent theories but that’s always been a big favourite of mine.

the windswept halls arent in the gsm they are on isle st helenes, however, the best answer for that would be the mount royal chalet.

I think you nailed this one shecrab! I agree with your verse solution almost completely. This match to the Wright Brothers Memorial is what Turtle123456 and I posted earlier this year. I was hoping it would just take time for members to discover the truth in our posted solutions either by eventually spending time understanding them or through their own problem solving. I’m guessing you came up with these matches without even looking at our solutions. That would mean you reached the same conclusions we did without being biased by our posts. Which would be just as cool! Hey, as long as we get to the solutions, it doesn’t matter too much how we got there. But boy, waiting for the light to come on for someone on any of the solutions we posted was honestly driving me crazy.
The cool thing about this verse match is that if it gains the traction it deserves it will expose the mismatching problems that this forum has developed for other locations.
Turtle and my interpretation of
Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
is that “the only standing member” is the Wright Memorial. This fits for a couple reasons. “Beneath” works well due to the raised position of the Memorial on top of the sand dune that overlooks the whole landscape. “South” works well for the memorial too due to its position to white stones to the north. Don’t get too hung up on “forest”.  When we have only one standing member of a forest it no longer looks like a forest. And to fit BP’s “nothing means what it says” pattern forest would not be a real forest.
I know you don’t have full confidence in the
You’ll see an arc of lights
match, but I think you got that one right too. I believe the arc of lights is the sweeping beacon on top of the memorial. Which, by the way, can be seen at night (or anytime) on this webcam.
http://monumentcam.kdhnc.com/view/index.shtml
I agree with your approach you used to solve this. We are all making this way too difficult by adding extra layers and angles to the solution process.
Nice job!

Thanks, Sonoran. I actually DID read your posts—I read all the posts. But I’d already had this place in mine before you posted your solutions. I believe my original ideas are under the Image 3 thread because that’s how I had originally come to these conclusions–to me that suit of armor just looks like a paraphrased airplane–with the “struts” under the arms and the numerous aviation metaphors all through the picture.
Either way, I am starting to believe that there is just a really simple way of interpreting each of these verses. I am also beginning to think that because so much time has passed and there have been so many changes to the physical landscapes from 1981 to now, that the
verses
may be the only way we’ll find the missing casques.
From studying the two known solutions, it became clear that the verses describe ONE way to find the casque, and the Paintings show another–or images surrounding the solution–but they don’t show the actual solution! They do both have one major feature that is nearby–in the Cleveland solve, it is the columns and the wall of the GCG–in the Chicago solve it is the water tower and the gate. The rest is simply supporting metaphor–very vaguely portrayed!
So we have in Image 3, a suit of armor with arms outstretched. Some believe this is because of the Elizabethan Gardens on Roanoke Island. I don’t, because the armor is not Elizabethan in the slightest–it’s not ANYTHING from ANY era! But the arms of the figure are outstretched–and have struts under them–and so do old airplanes; that is just the most obvious thing about it, actually.
Yes, there is a vague outline of Roanoke Island in the wall cracks. Well, Kitty Hawk is extremely close to Roanoke Island. No surprise there. There are little aviation metaphors all through the picture–parts of the armor look like parts of airplanes. The bells could stand for Bell, who makes airplane engines. The ornaments and patterns on the armor look like cockpit controls and dials. Et cetera.
Besides….nothing says there can’t be TWO casques within the same narrow area–right? The way that verse 11 fits the Roanoke idea is actually pretty satisfyingly close–“white is in color,” the “man of oz” etc. etc…..all can be readily and quickly found in the area. Yet—we still haven’t found anything! Why is that? Why can’t we find something that pins it down? Maybe because it’s
deliberately close
–but not
correct!
That’s often how riddles work–and someone who put this together might have found it amusing to think that one of their verses could stand for ANOTHER solution that did not use that verse. Tricky and diabolical, but a good hard puzzle. I think we can find another interpretation for V. 11.
Speaking of obvious clues in the paintings, one of the biggest is the lat/long numbers. They appear in all the paintings, but they get summarily ignored when a bunch of ideas are presented–as if they shouldn’t matter. Well, they
need
to matter. They were correct in both solves for the found casques. Just because you find a building with an ornament that looks like the pattern on the girl’s dress, or the checkerboard pattern on a collar, or something like that, we cannot go off half-cocked and think that means we’ve found the area. Checkerboard patterns, for instance, are very common–from the Purina company to the flag of Maryland, they are pretty much found everywhere.
There should be at least one unique feature in every painting. There are in the two solved paintings. But it is my considered opinion that in order to solve these puzzles, one must really, thoroughly and CORRECTLY interpret the verses.
In P. 6—Houston–the verse fits and the picture has a BIG clue: animal heads. Animals=zoo. The number 982–the train that was in the zoo. The general location=Friendship=Texas (the state motto). Lots of other supporting things in both v. and p. –except for one thing:
In the center of four alike, small split three winged and slight”
(which is where the casque is buried) has NO interpretation that fits.
Four what? Alike how? Small AND slight? Split? three winged? No one came up with anything that fit these things.
My idea was fences. In the middle of four fences–which are items that are alike: in other words, not three fences and a wall, not two fences and a rock garden–but four things that have the same
identity
.
Small
–a short fence–maybe one panel only;
split
–a split rail fence;
three winged
–three wing-shaped panels (like a right triangle with a curved hypotenuse); and
slight
–a fence that isn’t TALL. In other words, at an intersection where four differently MADE fences are visible, but no one would consider them “alike” because they don’t look alike–yet they ARE alike–they are all——
fences
.  [NOTE: three-winged is a hyphenated adjective. In the verse, the phrase reads three winged (noun + adjective) not three-winged. I think that is deliberate. In other words it’s saying
3, winged
, not 3-winged.]
But I don’t know if that was possible and it’s too late to know now since the old zoo is gone.
Sorry for the length of this reply. I know I’m long-winded, and a lot of this has been said before. But it bears repeating that we need to simplify these interpretations–at least I believe we do.

shecrab

And the verse also says, “ride the man of oz”. Ride the man? You don’t “ride” a man, and you dont’ “ride” a bridge.

Sonoran

“South” works well for the memorial too due to its position to white stones to the north. Don’t get too hung up on “forest”.  When we have only one standing member of a forest it no longer looks like a forest. And to fit BP’s “nothing means what it says” pattern forest would not be a real forest.

But you
do
ride a ferry. Thomas A. Baum founded the Roanoke Ferry Co. in 1926.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_Ferry_System
Shecrab, the thrust of your posts seems to be a plea for simplicity. I agree completely that our thinking about the puzzles does not need to be any more difficult than necessary. But I think my idea of simplicity must differ substantially from yours. When a verse says “land near the window,” and one of the paintings has a LAND beside a WINDOW, and that land happens to match several details in the self-same verse, I consider the pairing obvious and simple. The verse says we are supposed to ride the man of oz TO that land, not to another land near it. That is a simple, literal interpretation of the verse.
Even if “forest” is metaphorical, it must have a meaning or it wouldn’t be in the verse. You can’t simply ignore parts of the verse you think are irrelevant, just for convenience. If the only standing member is the memorial (which I’ll grant as a possibility), you have to be able to explain why it’s the only standing member of a (real or metaphorical) “forest.”

I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later…yup, I have to disagree with you on several points.
First and formost…you try to explain your conclusion about Kitty Hawk and the WB Memorial by saying that you no longer believe V11 applies.  It was with these following words (from V11):  “By dauntless and inconquerable Determination” that got us to the WB Memorial in the first place.  Without these words, we would have never come to the Memorial and had that not happened, I see NO WAY you could have found yourself there with V5.  Sure, once we have the location, some things fit in nicely…but…
Remember, V11 also gave us “Pass two friends of octave”…  the 2 friends of Octave ARE the Wright Brothers.  V11 also gave us: “the wing” which sounds like the Memorial itself; “Ride the man of oz” = Washington BAUM Bridge; “Dark Forest” = a quote from Paul Green’s ‘The Lost Colony’… “walked away through the dark forest into history” & the sign at the Elizabethan Garden has those same exact words at the main entrance.; etc..etc..etc..  I am not going to go through all of those again, you know where to find them.  All I have to say about this is:
WITHOUT all of these tie ins, I find it impossible to find yourself at the WB Memorial with an entirely different V.
You then discuss how the WB did not study the flight of birds but studied kite flying.  To prove this statement, you quote a letter from O.W. which is ALL about birds and not once mentions kites.
Yes, some of the things seem to fit a little bit, but, once again…I think that ONLY AFTER this location was found via another V, these ideas of yours a made to fit.
I do agree with you on one point.  That is that there is a casque ‘near’ the WB Memorial…that is, across the bridge to the Lost Colony…but V5 is not the way there.

I was waiting for this one.
Actually, I am not going to DISagree with your conclusions about V. 11. I think there may be a casque there as well. But…we have not found one yet. That’s the biggest problem with the verse–that we have not found one yet, NOR have we been able to successfully pair it up with a painting.
I wanted to see if there was some way we could do that, and I think mine fits as well as the other one–matching parts notwithstanding.
No matter how many times we go over and over the Roanoke Island image and the parts of the location, we have not been able to fix on a location. Not even Regulus, who actually went there and DUG, could do it. So I re-thought it. And I noticed something about the two verses that led to finds in Cleve. and Chicago. I noticed that they were really very straightforward. They didn’t rely on obscure literature. They didn’t rely on odd facts or tiny little matching parts (such as the emblem on the bench.) They were rather broadly defined, in fact. Both of them.
I started re-reading the verses and I’m coming up with interpretations that are simpler, less layered, more pointed. And when I did, this verse spoke more to me about aviation than the other one did. Octave friends, sure–but you know what? I have several books on the Wright Brothers (I’m a bit of a buff) and he is not mentioned ONCE.
Not once
. I live in Ohio–and I’ve been to Dayton several times. I’ve been to Richmond Indiana a couple of times. I’ve been to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum three times. Not one time is Octave Chanute WELL KNOWN as a friend of the Wright Brothers.  So I have to believe, despite the matching inference we DID find here, that “octave” may mean something other than Octave Chanute. It may indeed be its
simplest
meaning:
a group of 8.
Same thing with “the man of oz.” Oz in the verse is not capitalized. Other names in other verses are all capitalized. MAybe this “oz” is not a name then? Maybe it’s something else. And I know I posted this one before: that the “man” of oz (or Oz) may indeed be something other than L. Frank Baum–it could mean the only “man” that the familiar Oz books ever mentioned: the Tin Man. And the verse also says, “ride the man of oz”. Ride the
man
? You don’t “ride” a man, and you dont’ “ride” a bridge. Again, I’m just trying to reinterpret and simplify the ideas. I don’t believe they were ever intended to be as complicated as we seem to have made them.  The cleveland and Chicago finds were not complicated–yet as we’ve seen from the Chicago solve, there are several interpretations that CAN be made!  (M&B for example.)
Do you see where I’m headed with this? I’m not trying to refute anything already discovered–only re-interpret the verses and then see if there is a picture they may fit with.
We don’t have to agree. However, if we’re going to keep rehashing, I’d like to throw my ideas out there too and hopefully we’ll see something new.

Well great go Dig!
Please prove me wrong!
I am rooting for you! but I still think you have too much emphasis on the picture to determine the location of the casque.
I don’t believe at all thats how the pictures are used.
and yes I believe the picture use is consistent throughout the hunt

You need me to point out the example in image 4?  See two columns centered beyond them is a sketch of the wall just as it is presented at the casque site.  You made a point in how well the columns matched.  I only pointed out that they were slightly off but close enough.  I assumed you saw the sameness also in the two for two columns fitting the perspective.
In my Oregon theory I’m emphasising the same thing.  See the yellow rectangle that identifies the contour and sketch of a white formation next to the lone tree.  Now consider that arrangement fits the site perspective from the roadway.  That’s ALL I’ve done.  The rest comes from the verse. Just say it like it is.  If you don’t see it, then move on.  I don’t need the pat on the back.  I don’t need to dig.  I have a plan in place and the permit process is just a hurdle to clear.  I’m not playing games, or teasing, or even being dramatic.  I just hope its clear and helpful to onlookers here.  If I was a FOY enthusiast I’d see this theory as an alternative to consider and I might do a risk assessment on whether I need to push deeper into FOY or back off.  Its up to each individuals perspective.
Peace be with you, maltedfalcon.

Just checking in.  Still to cold for Battery Park. In the 20s.  Just waiting….

Now that is funny KLBT.  Let’s keep it quiet about the Flamenco Dance relic…it is proudly being displayed in my den and I would really be bummed if the NPS came and took it away.

View from a little further on, by the flagpole…
Lane
Two twenty two
In Feb 1922 there was a film release called “Edgar Allan Poe” apparently based on his poem
Annabel Lee
, inspired by a Charleston legend.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289936/

http://community.webshots.com/user/boogiemanQ4T
click on the
Casque
Here are the pics.  Too many that I like didn’t come out.  The Walloon Settlers Memorial (390018) is the closest one to the castle.
Most of Jerusalem grove did not come out.
Pic #390020 is my white stone.  Need help with
12 paces
.  Can 20 steps be concidered 12 paces?  Don’t know why I thought 20 paces when I was there.  I guess that’s why you need at least 4 eyes.  One set looking and one set reading.

I don’t recall whether we saw it.  We spent several hours there, so we probably saw it, but did not think it fit in with anything.

Question for Egbert:  Did you happen to check out the Jewish Tercentenary Memorial located within the Peter Minuit Plaza just to the south of Battery Park?  It seems to fit nicely with the theme but I can’t find pictures on it.  It is being expanded right now, but still my be worth a look.
Only Standing member
Here’s an interesting read on it:
http://nycgovparks.org/sub_your_park/hi … p?id=13319

White stone closest
At twelve paces
(Sounds like a duel…maybe Rhett/Calhoun.)
This is the flagpole near Stella Maris. Might that path be paved…? Doesn’t look like it, but it’s hard to tell.
And what is that thing just to the right of it…?

Hi, I’m new here. I’m from Montreal and I’m a geek for local history, so maybe I can help out.
Can someone tell me why people think that verse 5 is linked to image 9 and to Montreal? I’ve skimmed through this very long post but I can’t find that information.
I’ve looked at the information at “The Secret” website which explains theories on the relationship between verse 5 and image 9, but they seem pretty loose and inconclusive to me, especially when compared to the evidence linking image 9 with Montreal, which is much more convincing.
Thanks!

hey Egg, I really like the “wind swept halls” reference.
“Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site”
could this be referring to the 1906 Earthquake?  This building was only 1 of a few that survived the quake.  I havent found a concrete statement saying the bldg was saved by large underground roots but the bldg itself weighs appx 57,000 metric tons.  That alone sounds like a good way to survive (be saved) from a quake.

Just another little bit of rambling about this V since it has yet to be connected to either a P or a city.
could the line mentioning the arc of lights be referring to Joan of Arc whose visions came in bright lights?  She was famous for the Battle of Orleans and N.O. sure has a lot of statues, churches, you name it named after her.
just a thought

Fort Pike ?

“Of granite walls
Wind swept halls”
A Federal Courthouse in San Francisco has granite walls and halls with an ancient nautical figure that blows wind.
http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/building.htm

(Post moved to Image 2 thread.)

Can anyone remember, somebody had a lane-222/golden gate bridge link idea.
I looked through this thread but cant find it, does any body remember what it was or who came up with it?
Matt

Ah got it
2 things
most famously the goldengate bridge is 222 feet above the water.
The other is the goldengate bridge is San Francisco historical site 222
Noticing Lane is on a separate line then 222
I could say it references the lane of the traffic above the 222 feet
or it is a sea lane 222 feet tall.
Which brings me to an arc of lights. which is the golden gate bridge at night
nearby I have found a windswept granite citadel and  without a doubt
the last standing member of a forest, and by chance,  to the west of it are several broken pieces of white rock
even more remarkable is the distance to the nearest rock – about 12 steps.
and also notably I would definitely need permission to dig there.
or it being SF I could wait for a foggy night…
unfortunately I do not know when the next time I will be able to go dig is…
or there is the huge possiblity I am shoehorning clues in where they dont belong, (been there done that!)
Matt

Sounds intriguing…any more clues as to where this spot is…?
I found another explanation of the fingers pointing to squares on the dress in image 1 that I’m always going on about.
On the left side, the finger indicates the 4th square, dividing the strip into 4 and 5. Reading down from the roman numerals this gives 1 2 3 4 5.
On the right side, the finger indicates the 3rd square, dividing the strip into 3 and 7. Reading down from the roman numerals this gives 1 2 2 3 7 (lat and long).
I wondered if the 12345 could have any significance beyond drawing attention to the pattern, and I’ve also been wondering today about clues for verse number in the images. Could be a V5 clue…?

A thought or two on this and image 6.  Using the bird outline in the rock and then mention of wingless bird in verse as a rudimentary pairing choice, we might then consider the following idea.
Two twenty might be a reference to electricity, typically referred to as 110 or 220 or three-phase, etc.  I noticed image six is comprised of both a hill and a valley, and it has a flood-like perspective along the left side of the base below the flowers.  The sinusoidal waveform of electricity is refeerred to as having “peaks and valleys”.
I’m making more sense of this from a Bonneville perspective.  Explorer Benjamin Bonneville is whom the 1937 hydroelectric power center is named after.
Weight and roots is like a tooth…a dam is like that.  The icy peak in the corner is toothlike …I’m not sure where that leads, but a bird doesn’t have teeth, it has a beak, which for it is like a tooth.  The outline of the beakless bird looks much like a crow or raven.  If we start at Bonneville Dam and then go left (west) in the direction the horse and rider are looking, we drive only a short while before coming to a spot that is etymologically named after the raven.

davinci4

If anyone has ever read The Gold Bug, the references to this verse (and painting) are pretty remarkable. In the first paragraphs, Sullivan’s Island, Fort Moultrie, and palmetto branches are all mentioned. The gold mask in the painting is an unquestionable nod to the story which is about a treasure hunt. In the same collection of short stories by Edgar Allen Poe, there is the Balloon Hoax which ends with a hot air balloon landing (descending not ascending) at Sullivan’s Island. Hard to believe this wasn’t Preiss’ inspiration behind this verse/painting.

I do like Poe’s reference. for the following reasons:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&hilit=poe&start=2017
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&hilit=poe&start=2021
Also if you do a search for Poe in this thread you’ll see many references to The Gold Bug and Poe, as far back as 2006.

Going back through some pics I took, was this….I never noticed this white stone before….I went down and took a bunch of new (vantage point) pics from a few spots. The stone in this image at the church hasn’t been discussed that I’ve seen. The stone is currently hiding under a shrub and 12 paces measured with a pace as one foot or two steps) lands you in the street, so it can be ruled out if we talk west of that stone.
Others I stepped off…keep in mind, I took measurements at both two steps=one pace and one step=one pace. At ~2.5 feet per step that gives you roughly 60′ and 30′ measurements. I also assumed that the verse read “12 paces from the west side of the white stone”. With that…
The geodetic boundary marker “Moultrie-2” would have merit if the coastline was extended. Basically 12 paces (one pace per step) or roughly 30 feet from the west side puts you on top of the middle of the barrier rocks. You would have to move one to even dig underneath there. I hate it because I like that one but it’s probably out too. My question for this site would be: have the barrier rocks/boulders been moved or replaced since ’82 (especially since Hugo in ’89)? I plan to further investigate this…I’m going back down and will find someone I can talk to.
The two that I’m thinking realistically about are at are the WWII memorial and a road marker (or some other stone) at the lighthouse.
The WWII stone stepped off at 30′ in some brush (and was outside of what I would think the buried electrical lines would be).  This spot still has potential in my mind. I want two questions answered for this spot: 1. At any point was the Stella Maris church left standing (I.e. After a war/battle, etc)? 2. Where exactly are those electrical lines buried? I talked to a contractor that worked WPG, so maybe I can get a hold of one that worked the electrical at the WWII memorial too…
The other is the lighthouse. The closest white road marker is at Flag St and 18 1/2 Station St. Stepping this off puts you toward the lighthouse (and at the right view has a pretty prominent hill that could be the outline of that arc and point in the middle of the Charleston map mask). I think realistically this has merit too. Oh and we drove Poe Ave too…I didn’t see any pines. But I did see a road marker that was the corner of Citadel and Poe…
Here are links to my Dropbox…
Verse 5 related pics:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/el8s4eipdsbmwkp/mgTruEkRSU
Stones and ideas (these I would be glad to explain…I’m calling lazy and just posting my DB link vice posting and explaining each…but anywhere you see my feet, I have stepped off either the ~30 or ~60 feet.)
(There is a new stone that I did not see or know of before…the Meridian stone. This lies outside of the walls of Fort Moultrie on the Station 12 street side.
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMEP … _County_SC
)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gi87kqrkmjr841x/oSWaCFOt6w