scottrocks7

It is unlikely that many people would know the first 3 lines are Treasure Island.

It is more so likely knowing this than:
“What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather. “
This of course is from Herman Melville’s
Pierre
…which leads us directly to Hermann Park in Houston TX.
Again, I side with FB…give us something solid or stop selling because I’m not even renting…

forest_blight

I’ve certainly been wrong before. I believe I offered to eat my hat if V2 didn’t point to St. Louis last year. Now if I could just find a really small, digestible hat…

Are you referring to the city of St. Louis?

I’m referring to whatever uses of “St. Louis” do not result in me consuming a hat.

Nice save!

A search on Project Gutenberg (see Internet Resources thread) produces 11 independent instances of the words “fair remuneration” in literature.
Two stand out as they deal with slavery, and the slave trade has already been implicated in the link between Charleston and Africa in P 2
The slave trade, domestic and foreign _ Why It Exists, And How It May Be Extinguished, by Carey, Henry Charles, page 181 (196 pages)
They maintain great fleets and armies, at enormous expense, for the purpose of keeping up a system that destroys their customers and themselves; and this they must continue to do so long as they shall hold to the doctrine which teaches that the only way to secure a
fair remuneration
to capital is to keep the price of labour down, because it is one that produces discord and slavery, abroad and at home; whereas, under that of peace, hope, and freedom, they would need neither fleets nor armies.
AND
State Of The Union Address by United States. President (1869-1877 : Grant), page 2  (76 pages)
The freedmen, under the protection which they have received, are making rapid progress in learning, and no complaints are heard of lack of industry on their part where they receive
fair remuneration
for their labor.
maybe there is/was a plaque/monument with this or something similar in Charleston?

also. . . .
cthree, I noticed that your post above doesn’t discuss the “Where law defended” line. . . . did you know that the “L” in Horace L. Hunley (honored for “the defense of Charleston Harbour” in one of your photos) stands for
Law
son?
Happy digging!

Interesting!  I didnt know that! I was kind of leaning on the “law” line referring to the hanging of steed bonnet and 30 other pirates at whitepoint. But this is a very interesting point. Makes me rethink!  ???

Those who aren’t ignoring me are probably wondering what I’m talking about.
The two lines to “harken” are about a President. Effectively “Listening to the President.” The next line is about successors and Blyden’s children having his name is a good solid example for what we’re intended to discover; a compound idea to read “figure out a President who has a successor.” We have African themed Tolbert succeeded by Doe to set us up for an American counterpart with Lincoln succeeded by Johnson.

Unknown

Unknown:
Edwin and Edwina named after him
This is a quote from a book about someone named Edward. But it does not have to refer to THAT book or THAT Edward. Instead, it refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle
We are still in the right place.

I wanted to add this:
“At a meeting held at the Pabst Grand Circle Hotel in New York City, on
May
26,
1913,
Actors’ Equity was founded”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actors%27_Equity
And we know who founded the Actors Equity Association..

rookhunter

I wanted to add this:
“At a meeting held at the Pabst Grand Circle Hotel in New York City, on
May
26,
1913,
Actors’ Equity was founded”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actors%27_Equity
And we know who founded the Actors Equity Association..

Interesting. The Pabst Grand Circle Hotel used to stand where the 2 Columbus Circle building is now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle

i cant find the convo on the Pabst Grand Circle Hotel, and i cant remember why it wasnt
pursued more, maybe lack of dig area/s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle
i command the search function to work!! lol

Unknown

Unknown:
This is a quote from a book about someone named Edward. But it does not have to refer to THAT book or THAT Edward. Instead, it refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle
We are still in the right place.

Sorry, I disagree. Let me remind everyone about this passage from “Abroad in America”:
There are two very, very significant things about this passage. First, their names appear here in the context of being named after someone (“
Edwin and Edwina named after him
“).
Second, this is the
same book
, not coincidentally, where the Sarmiento quote can be found:
The idea that Edwin and Edwina can refer to anything else just boggles the mind.

There is no doubt about that one.

WhiteRabbit

From P9 of this thread…

But there are posts from Egbert dated September 2004 where BP states he doesn’t remember all the locations anymore. Could he have lost track of the specifics and misremembered how close the Maine Monument is to Central Park?

forest_blight

Sorry, I disagree. Let me remind everyone about this passage from “Abroad in America”:
There are two very, very significant things about this passage. First, their names appear here in the context of being named after someone (“
Edwin and Edwina named after him
“).
Second, this is the
same book
, not coincidentally, where the Sarmiento quote can be found:
The idea that Edwin and Edwina can refer to anything else just boggles the mind.

The idea that in 1982 a person was supposed to find that quote in an obscure book boggles my mind.
Edwin Booth (who was significant to NYC history) could easily be found in any encyclopedia.

Unknown

Unknown:
The idea that in 1982 a person was supposed to find that quote in an obscure book boggles my mind.
Edwin Booth (who was significant to NYC history) could easily be found in any encyclopedia.

I hear you, rook. But the Sarmiento quote is similarly obscure. And yet, of the 3 or 4 English translations that I found for that passage, the one in “Abroad in America” comes the closest. I was so excited after finding it that I read the entire book, and finding the reference to Edwin and Edwina nailed it for me. I am 100% certain BP had this book on his desk when he penned both of those verses.

I agree. It is an obscure book to just have lying on your bookshelf, sure. But it just looks like too much of a coincidence to be coincidence. There’s little to no doubt that this is the source material for these two verses (at least), but it’s not to say that the hunters are to figure out a city/location from this book. Just another line that could or could not be used to confirm a city or location. Especially with verse 6 using the “or” lines…Or, (see what I did there-“or”?
) maybe these two verses were some of the harder ones that were created.

I agree – he published books for a living, and he obviously had that one on hand. It would be interesting to see if that book is still in his wife’s possession, and if so, if it has highlights or bookmarks (in addition to other books). Don’t forget the Herman Melville quote “strongest tower of delight” from Pierre – which not only gave us Hermann Park, but also gave us the name of a camel in the park. BP was big on books, as should be expected.

I thought it was only a rumor that the llamas were named Snowflake and Pierre — Wilhouse?

I agree that he got these and other quotes from book, my only disagreement is that they were meant to be clues.
But who knows maybe that’s why they’ve never been solved. I hope time will tell.

Also, compare the finger positioning of the lady in Image 12 with the fingers on the 2 outstretched arms of Justice on the Maine Memorial.
Does anyone in NY have some ground penetrating Radar like W has in Houston?

I wonder if this is connected to Blyden in some way,
William Richard Tolbert, Jr. (May 13, 1913 – April 12, 1980) was the 20th President of Liberia from 1971 until 1980, when he was killed in a coup d’état.
Someone who was born in May 1913 and had a significant presence in the media at a time just preceding the Secret. He was the President of a country named Liberia, which may be a good candidate for why Preiss used the word “freedom” in the preceding line.
Freedom at the birth of a century = In Liberia, someone born in the 20th century
Or May 1913 = Liberia’s 20th president Tobert
I bring this to our attention because it has to do with a President and I believe the line “White house close at hand” has to do with the position of Vice President, which suits the Charleston Lighthouse keeper named Andrew Johnson.
April 15, 1873: “Last Tuesday, there occurred at the Cape Romain light-house station a tragedy, which is terrible in its details. It is one of those horrible mysteries that baffle all attempts at solution. The facts of the case, as far as they can be gathered, are as follows: Captain Andrew Johnson is the keeper of the light-house at Cape Romain, where he resided with his wife. On the evening of the 8th instant, about 5 o’clock, Captain Johnson went up to the light-house to light and trim the lamp for the night. He left his wife in the house, which is in sight of the light-house, and in the yard of which she was seen by him up to 6 o’clock, when it became too dark to distinguish objects. At about half-past 8 o’clock in the evening, Julius L. Lee, one of the assistant keepers, went to the light-house to relieved Caption Johnson. In a few moments, Lee went out on the piazza of the station, and saw Captain Johnson running towards the dwelling of the assistants, crying out that his wife was dead. The body of Mrs. Johnson was found lying in the center of the floor, clad in night clothes, and surrounded by a pool of blood. A revolver belonging to her husband was lying by her side, but its chambers were not discharged. The deadly instrument with which the terrible deed had been committed was a razor, which her throat had been cut from ear to ear. There had evidently been an attempt to use the pistol, which was not successful. About the room was lying a lot of wearing apparel of the unfortunate victim and some of her husbands jewelry. All of her own jewelry, however, was missing, as was a lot of money which she had in her possession at the time of her death. The door leading from the room to the piazza, which fastened on the inside, was open, and an attempt had evidently been made to pass out of it. In the garden below, a pair of gold spectacles belonging to the deceased were found. Previous to the tragedy, Mrs. Johnson had called upon her neighbor, Mrs. Lee, and appeared to be in good health and cheerful spirits. Captain Johnson states that she had once told him that she had on a previous occasion attempted to take her own life, and that on several occasions she had talked and acted as if she was a little ‘flighty.’ The deceased was a native of Sweden, but had lived in this country for twenty-two years. At the time of her death, she was fifty-three years old. [Charleston News.” (The Daily Phoenix)

Would anyone consider a bar (or a pattern of bars) binding a window (the space, not the pane)?
There are windows containing different patterns of bars directly behind the statue of the children with extended arms in Washington Park that I was considering. Let me know if this has been brought up…I
think
I have caught up on all of this…
I will post a picture when I can…I might try to go by the park today too to verify.

The first thing I think of when I see “Below the bar that binds”, “long palm’s shadow”, and “embedded in the sand” is a beach. A bar is a small thin area of deposit typically composed of sand, silt or small pebbles. It extends into the water or connects two areas of land. Could it be possible to find a bar that touches land at both ends in an area of interest and look south of it? “Below the bar that binds”? This idea with the reference to Treasure “Island” may be something.

forest_blight

I am beginning to think the whole point of the Edwin and Edwina line might have been to simply identify the city that goes with the verse. EWB may be completely unimportant to the hunt apart from identifying Charleston as the city where Edwin and Edwina were named after someone.

Agreed. There is waaaay too much lore/theory/conspiracy/math/astrology/code in the solutions these days. Not saying that is incorrect, but until 1. the straightforward theories have been dug (tested) and come up dry, and 2. I have reason to believe that these are anything more than straightforward, I will continue to think they all “sort of” work like Chicago and Cleveland.

The Secret is packaged in such a partiular way that it becomes a balancing act to always wonder if there isnt more to it. That Treasure Island actually makes reference to the same Ashley Cooper for which the two river boundaries of Charleston is beyond coincidental. The strategy we adopt in our solutions might require some recognition of certain sources if we are to make progress in a straight forward manner.
The National Geographic Magazine from May 1913 has an article titled The Monsters in our Backyards. It reads in the same way as the field guide to the fair folk. It talks about their migration and “immigration” and has pictures of different grasshoppers, crickets, spiders, etc., and their scientific name in parenthesis followed by a description and their mating their habits. The cicada in particular is described in detail as a drum that produces a rhythmic mating call.
Verse 6 refers to birds and sounds. Might that be consistent with a theme about “romance retold”. I think its important to consider options as to why the naming of the Edwin/Edwina children is important to the solution beyond a “straight forward” reference to Charelston.

The first sentence of the May 1913 issue, The Monsters of our Back Yards: “My task is to open the readers of the National Geographic Magazine a door into a world full of romance as the fairy tales of Grimm or Andersen.”

Between two arms extended
Below the bar that binds
Beside the long palm’s shadow
Embedded in the sand
Waits the Fair remuneration
I’d say that by ‘Fair remuneration’, he’s referring to the Casque, since he’s describing where it’s located in the previous lines…that would be your compensation and pay for the work you’ve put in, searching for the damnable thing.
Then again, I’ve never been to Charleston.
He might be talking about something else.

JamesV

Hard to say. I think earlier in this thread someone had already analyzed the specific word choice of “remuneration”, which basically means money paid in exchange for work done or a service performed. “Fair remuneration” then, might have something to do with some kind of local protest/demonstration dealing with pay equity issues? Who knows, maybe there’s some kind of labor union or similar building/monument alongside the final dig site?

offered them a piece of land/a entire island, with 360 sea views consider a remuneration? and that give you that Rose in the image
but why a capital “F”
could it be
F
(resh)air?

I agree with the more simple approach. The Fair (Folk) remuneration is a clever way of saying the cask…one interesting thing I never noticed before. It’s states “beside” the long palms shadow. Not the “in the shadow” or “at the tip of the shadow”. Feel like this is not referring to an actual shadow but maybe the border or outline of the “long palm” (tennis anyone?)

One other thought. The “freedom at the birth of a century” line reminds me a lot of “beating of the world.” It is vague, perhaps unintentionally, and could be subject to many different interpretations: Boxer Rebellion, Emancipation Proclomation (Clay, Grant, Lincoln) US Independence (Washington, Jefferson) to name a few.

palm trees shadow marking half of triangle shaped sand garden (as seen exactly in image) at 4pm? lol

JoshCornell

palm trees shadow marking half of triangle shaped sand garden (as seen exactly in image) at 4pm? lol

lol

The Fair remuneration sounds like a “Just and equal payment” situation. When we take into consideration something like a scale, where both sides may level out when a set of weights are split equally, it’s almost as if this line about fairness is telling us to witness a setting which is the same by some measure, shape, size, weight, or equidistant on both sides. That’s the most general approach I can come up with.

turtle123456

I need some help from anyone in the new york area. If they could go to washington park and take pictures of the hanging tree area, i will be able to direct them to a dig location

As soon as Fox gets out here (east coast), between Washington Square and JPJ Park , maybe we can dig something up.  Early July, I believe.  Fox, get your internet back up!

turtle123456

I have narrowed the spot to dig at washington square park down to an area just west of the haning tree that is in the northwewst corner of the park, the two arms extended= two arm of the tree ….
below the bar that binds= the rail around the tree by walkway
beside the long palm shadow=where shadow of tree crosses the railing toward the house location
white house close at hand= there used to be a house just west of the tree
i hope this helps someone go and dig it up. i would like to see that happen

I need some help from anyone in the new york area. If they could go to washington park and take pictures of the hanging tree area, i will be able to direct them to a dig location

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:070129-SWR009.jpg

THANKS FALCON BUT I NEED PHOTOS OF THE AREA BEHIND THE TREE TO GIVE A PLACE TO PUT THE SHOVEL IN THE GROUND

Actually a pirate was hanged at White Point Gardens in Charleston, ahh, I just read it last night I can’t remember the name. Anyways, In 1913 The Daughters of the American Revolution got the deed to the Old Exchange from congress for “Preservation”. Also, wasn’t it at the battle of Fort Sumter that Keye wrote the Star Spangle Banner?
Side note: Was the Mexican Revolution around 1913?

Here’s the quick info:
In the early 1720s, the infamous “gentleman” pirate Stede Bonnet was hanged here with about 50 others like him. Townspeople filled the gallows area and jeered as the outlaw was brought to his rightful end. Bonnet was buried in the nearby marsh. His epitaph has been memorialized and stands today in the park.
http://www.csa-scla.org/Events/Battery.htm
I haven’t had any luck finding what exactly that “epitaph” is written on.

I have a hard time believing it’s there beside the monument. It’s a very public place, and someone burying a fiberglass cube would have drawn a lot of attention at any time of day.

also, where the nugget is the white house?  Perhaps BP meant for “sand” to actually be sand.
-regulus

That, my friendly desert dweller, is INGENIUS!  I have only one question:
Why the h@{{ did it take you guys so long to find this message board?  We sure could’ve used you long long long ago
Boogie…this sounds like it!  Can you please please please
wait 3 more weeks?  I know the temptation must be killing you.  My son & I will be arriving in NY on the 12th of July (I think around 6 pm) and I would sure love to be involved in the dig.
(ok, so its a mop but it kind of looks like a shovel)

wait a sec, what about your almost perfect solution with verse 10 and image 12.  The V?  I thought you guys had it?
Interesting ideas anyway.

well, like boogie said above….w/ JPJ Park & Washington Sq Park, we are bound to come up with something.  It may be another time when we are forcing a fit but some of those ideas really intrigue me.

Hoping to go take some pics on Sunday.  Fox, I’ll be available anytime after the 13th. and I’m not digging by myself!
Besides, Turtlle believes the casque has been paved over.  I hope, for everyone’s sake, that it is still attainable.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shamrocktattoo/410974751/
Here’s a pick of Turtle’s and Sonoran’s dig site.  Tough to dig in that.
Turtle, how did you find that the ground was all dirt back in 82′?  I’ve been there before, don’t know when, but it was a long time ago.  Can’t say i remember that statue.

Very nice breakdown of the V meow…that is very well thought out and explained for someone who has never done one of these before….but  (
there always has to be a but)
The very first casque located (not too long after the hunt began) was found in Grant Park..Chicago.  I find it very unlikely BP (Byron Preiss for our new friends) would bury 2 casques in the same city.  Unfortunately, I think this is a prime example of how almost any location can be made to fit.  Definitely not a slap at you Meow…we all have done it and, I believe, will continue doing it until we can dig up another one of these bad boys.  With that kind of thinking, you are definitely an asset to our team & I will once again Welcome you aboard…

Hey, if nothing comes out of this Philly thing, atleast I got to jog the memories of some of our old timers.  It appears that you guys have forgotten more than I know.  Mind if I keep pressing buttons?
Edit: Not that this has anything to do with Philly, but in May 1913, there was an Official Proclamation that all government employees were to wear a white carnation on Mother’s Day.  White carnation?
Scroll down to
Official Proclamation
.
http://www.pubblinet.com/fioristi/mothers.html

boogieman

Hey, if nothing comes out of this Philly thing, atleast I got to jog the memories of some of our old timers.  It appears that you guys have forgotten more than I know.  Mind if I keep pressing buttons?

Boog – first off, anything that jogs the memories of us old timers is welcome.  secondly, well, speaking as an old timer, press away!!
wilhouse

Thank you sir.  I’ll do my best.
Another tidbit:
Freedom at the birth of a century
I don’t remember this being mentioned before but, 1876 would make one century of independence.  In 1876, our Liberty Bell
was recognized as America’s symbol of freedom. Would
Freedom at the birth of a century
fit here?
http://www.martinmdb.com/bells.html

never bought into the Ghirardelli idea, the Gh on the dress sits directly on top of the Great highway in the park
it lines up perfectly with the tourist map of GGpark available in the 80’s and is in the same font… and that covered it for me.
With only two puzzles solved, I think it would be premature to rule out any possibilities about how the rest of them work
I totally disagree, with 12 puzzles total and two solved, that those two solved in exactly the same manner indicates to me that there is a standard method across all the puzzles.
if they are different, the odds are totally against randomly solving two that are the same.
And it makes sense that their would be a “standard” solution to all the puzzles in the book. therefore you are much more likely to solve the puzzles by finding similarity in methods with the two solved puzzles. rather than random associations.
So here’s how I see it.
The picture takes you to the city.
in the picture is an iconic image.
in this case it would be the dragon  similar to the ones found on the jackson square lamps
from there go straight down a street
At which point you are intercepted by the verse.
The verse tells you where to turn left off the street.
and then you follow the verse line by line to the exact spot you need to dig.
also to be found in the picture are images of things nearby the casque site.
of course you could be right, there could be different methods for each puzzle,  which would mean we cant build on the proven ideas of others, making the problem much much tougher.

Well, I was nodding my head and smiling politely and murmuring sure sure, whatever…
I mean come on, Layfayette square, that isn’t anywhere near where we have been searching…
if GGpark is the iconic image, then be real, there is no way it follows the start go a long way down a city street turn left…
and come on all those references to stuff in other cities and states, – non of the found ones are like that…
But wait a second….
Of all the romance retold
Men of tales and tunes
Cruel and bold
Seen here
By eyes of old  –
was of course written by Robert Louis Stevenson… who lived in san francisco, near china town.
as a matter of fact he used to sit in Jackson square, and tell stories to the children under the watchful eyes of their grandparents…
(well known san francisco story)
every lightpole in jackson square has a dragon that bears a suspicious resemblance to the one in the picture.
accross the street from Jackson square a plaque noting Edwin booth played in the theater there…
So now leave the Robert Louis Stevenson statue in Jackson square and step out onto the nearest street…
Turn left and start walking (a mile or so, turn left) and you are in
Lafayette square…
it is sandy dirt around that palm.
but no they dont usually have coconuts, around here they are mostly date palms
IF you find an actual may 1913 or law defended link  or find that weird shape under the table in the park or the bar that binds.
I will call up the city park service and go dig.

OK! Cheers…

Curve ball for you, Edwin Booth died in New York City. And, there is a USS Maine memorial outside Central Park that was dedicated May 1913. Might have nothing to do with anything but I found them interesting.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by connecting ‘white house’ to something simply slavery related?

It’s from Treasure Island. Why do you think Porgy and Bess?

wow, nice work everyone.  I have to agree with P4 & Cleveland….but why V4?

Thanks, Wilhouse and Dan.  All ideas and info are helpful.  I have tried several pic/verse combinations in the last year, and I have used a shovel at least 3 times.  Nothing, nothing, nothing.  Yet, I know three places the treasure is not.  That means something, although it is discouraging.  Byron Preiss did confirm that verse 7 is NOT for St. Louis.  He was probably tired of my solutions.
Wilhouse does imply a necessary point.  We cannot ever assume we are right until we have a treasure in hand.  However, we cannot ever assume we are wrong.  I know that we all know this, and I do not intend to be condescending, but it seems to me that the two hardest factors of this hunt are: matching pic and verse, and wanting to find/make a solution.
I will pursue the verse 6 idea, since it seems most promising so far.  I will also strongly consider image 9 while trying to keep my mind open to other possibilities.
Although I prefer to share info with the board, my private address is
[email protected]
Yet, I strongly emphasize that board teamwork is preferred.
–Johann

The map of this statue says it on the corner of a gold course.
Buried in the sand?  Maybe buried in a sandtrap?

Unknown

Unknown:
The map of this statue says it on the corner of a gold course.
Buried in the sand?  Maybe buried in a sandtrap?

Actually, that MapQuest map is a poor representation of the location.  It is actually located in between McKinley, Wells and Union, making it a bit farther away than that map may suggest.

Thank you all for all this.  I was at Forest Park today (as I have been many days to no avail).  Some of the posted info I know, but some of it I did not.  I had never worked with this verse in connection to the location, but I do believe it may be working.
St. Louis (his statue is in front of the Art Museum and is on the St. Francis link) was a Crusader, hence the “romance” and tales “cruel and bold.”  Along the sides of the museum are profiles of men long dead, so the “seen here / By eyes of old”.
The Museum, like the aviary, is one of the few remaining structures from the Fair.  On each side of the entrance is a statue, a pair made in 1913 and representing Sculpture and Painting (also on the link).  There is another 1913 sculpture at a zoo entrance (also on the link).
When one stands near the aviary (that is the word for a big bird cage?) one can see the large cascading fountain that flows down the hill of the World’s Fair Pavilion (which was actually built in 1909 to commemorate the Fair).
Forest Park also has an outdoor performance arena called “The Muny” and I find it interesting that the verse uses the word “remuneration,” an odd and seldom used word for “reward” when any other synonym would do (possibly).
I actually began my hunt a year ago at the Jewel Box using verse 2.  I had no idea that image 9 has a connection.  I will check that link, Egbert.  Thanks!
This is all I know so far.  I will be at home with my two-year-old daughter all summer.  She does like the Forest Park Zoo and I planned to recruit her as my hunt assistant.  I may be back there tomorrow if the rain and her possible chicken pox don’t keep us at home.  Again, big thanks y’all!!!

Johann, while I have now confirmed that there is a Houston treasure, I have no confirmation of the picture or verse. Yes, we all agree that verse 1 is the clearest link, but the only good link in p8 is the lat/long numbers.  There are other numbers in p8 too.
If you think that v6 gets you near a zoo, look to see if there are any columns that match p8, since it does seem to hint to a zoo.
wilhouse

I don’t presume to speak for Johann, but I think tonight I’ve made some pretty good breakthroughs with a lot of help on this board.  I believe Verse 6 and Image 9 are indeed linked.
I believe the St. Louis Zoo is just a supporting castmate due to the bird flight’s presence (which was there before the zoo existed).  It seems, based on what I’ve read here, that Houston’s link to the zoo is much stronger.
Once again, that’s just my two cents.  I’m going to try to contact Johann about a little recon and then hopefully we can meet together and trek into the wild sometime soon.

The line “stand and listen to the birds” is a huge clue.  Consider the first line as it applies to birds.  Romance retold might be interpreted as a mating call and respose.  Drumming such as that of the woodpecker is a consideration.
Woody woodpecker.  Mel Blanc, birthday in May (born in 1908, not in 1913).  Blanc = white. Thinking of a fun alternative to ‘white house close at hand’ being Blanc house, or Woody the Woodpecker’s house, which would be a tree.  “tree close at hand”?
Woodrow Wilson, president during May 1913, “Woody”?

forest_blight

I agree with four21thrasher that another possibility is that the word “long” modifies “shadow” rather than “palm.” As in “the long shadow cast by the palm.” It is easier to understand a shadow being long than a palm being long.
Of course, this line of reasoning doesn’t get us anywhere. Shadows move around a lot over the course of the day and according to the time of year, and (unlike in Masquerade) there is no other information about looking for where a shadow falls at a particular time of day or year.

This is true, but isn’t a shadow ALWAYS longest at the beginning and end of the day? If the sun travels east and west, wouldn’t the longest shadow have to point in one of those directions?
I do agree that this likely doesn’t get us anywhere. What’s funny is that Egbert’s suggestion about the attachment piece being called a long palm… well, there is one of those right where I am trying to dig.

“Beside the long palm’s shadow.”
I have been thinking about this. Many people on this thread are just assuming that this refers to a tall palm tree. But, if that was the case, why not say “Beside the tall palm’s shadow”? You would describe a tree as tall, not long. The leaves can be described as long, but the phrase is not describing the leaf. This could be a case of BP just trying to be poetic, but it doesn’t seem to jibe with how the other verses describe things. I have come up with a few alternate possibilities.
1. There are different types of hands. A “long palm” is a type of hand.
http://elementsofmorphology.nih.gov/index.cgi?tid=7515f487e834719e
However, I do not see BP describing a person’s hand in telling someone where to dig. First, a long hand or a short hand will probably cast the same shadow. Also, if we are talking about a statue, the hand will probably be too high up to tell what type it is. A better description would be “left” or “right” palm. I know some people here are trying to say that this refers perhaps to an open palm as opposed to a closed hand. But, then it would be described as open or closed, not long. So, I don’t think this refers to a statue’s hand at all.
2. There is a type of steel building joint called a “long palm” barrel lug.
http://www.carroll.com.au/long-palm-long-barrel-lug-lplb16-6w.html
If it is big enough, this could cast a shadow. However, I cannot imagine it being big enough to do so.
3. If someone’s name was “Long,” and they had a palm tree on their property, that would be the Long Palm. Perhaps there is someone famous, and we just have to find the right spot (in Charleston, if you believe, as I do, that this verse is for Charleston) to locate this property.
4. A crazy possibility, but there was actually someone who lived in Charleston whose name was Long Palm. I found him, or at least I found Long, Palm:
http://records.ancestry.com/palm_c_long_records.ashx?pid=598746
and
http://us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/census/sc/oconee/1910/_indx-l.txt
Now, if there is an actual statue or monument somewhere with his name on it, that would be a possibility.
So, there you have it. The “long palm” clue really bothers me in this Verse. I just do not think it means a tall palm tree.

Egbert

“Beside the long palm’s shadow.”
I have been thinking about this. Many people on this thread are just assuming that this refers to a tall palm tree. But, if that was the case, why not say “Beside the tall palm’s shadow”? You would describe a tree as tall, not long. The leaves can be described as long, but the phrase is not describing the leaf. This could be a case of BP just trying to be poetic, but it doesn’t seem to jibe with how the other verses describe things. I have come up with a few alternate possibilities.
1. There are different types of hands. A “long palm” is a type of hand.
http://elementsofmorphology.nih.gov/index.cgi?tid=7515f487e834719e
However, I do not see BP describing a person’s hand in telling someone where to dig. First, a long hand or a short hand will probably cast the same shadow. Also, if we are talking about a statue, the hand will probably be too high up to tell what type it is. A better description would be “left” or “right” palm. I know some people here are trying to say that this refers perhaps to an open palm as opposed to a closed hand. But, then it would be described as open or closed, not long. So, I don’t think this refers to a statue’s hand at all.
2. There is a type of steel building joint called a “long palm” barrel lug.
http://www.carroll.com.au/long-palm-long-barrel-lug-lplb16-6w.html
If it is big enough, this could cast a shadow. However, I cannot imagine it being big enough to do so.
3. If someone’s name was “Long,” and they had a palm tree on their property, that would be the Long Palm. Perhaps there is someone famous, and we just have to find the right spot (in Charleston, if you believe, as I do, that this verse is for Charleston) to locate this property.
4. A crazy possibility, but there was actually someone who lived in Charleston whose name was Long Palm. I found him, or at least I found Long, Palm:
http://records.ancestry.com/palm_c_long_records.ashx?pid=598746
and
http://us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/census/sc/oconee/1910/_indx-l.txt
Now, if there is an actual statue or monument somewhere with his name on it, that would be a possibility.
So, there you have it. The “long palm” clue really bothers me in this Verse. I just do not think it means a tall palm tree.

Really interesting thoughts, Egbert. Thanks! I agree that the clue is a little perplexing. What if is the palm’s shadow that is long, and not the palm itself?

I agree with four21thrasher that another possibility is that the word “long” modifies “shadow” rather than “palm.” As in “the long shadow cast by the palm.” It is easier to understand a shadow being long than a palm being long.
Of course, this line of reasoning doesn’t get us anywhere. Shadows move around a lot over the course of the day and according to the time of year, and (unlike in Masquerade) there is no other information about looking for where a shadow falls at a particular time of day or year.
It doesn’t have to refer to a statue or sculpture. It could refer to a named building (e.g., Long Hall) or a motel sign (e.g., The Palmtree Motel) (I made those up).
There is a “long” island known as the Isle of Palms just east of Charleston, and a community known as “Long Point” east of town. There is also a business called “Ann Long Fine Art” on Broad St. in downtown Charleston, close to Washington Square. My point is, there are lots of options for what “Long” and “Palm” might refer to.

or …maybe it’s just a hangman’s noose
i found this list of markers in charleston:
http://www.hmdb.org/results.asp?Town=Ch … 20Carolina

And who was hung in White Point Gardens?  Dozens of pirates, that’s who.

’cause,  don’t the rivers around the shape of charleston look like a tree in AP’s close up of the obelisk, or h or whatever??
and remember there’s an obelisk in white point gardens, the uss hobson tribute……..which makes me wanna tell this, tho i know my ideas get silly sometimes..
have you ever heard of “hobson’s choice”….where the guy says “either take the first horse in the stall nearest the door “OR” don’t take a horse at all.
which means take it or leave it.
and we have that “OR” in the verse
sorry AP, i just saw where u had made that observation about the arch in the trees, were we talking about the same thing?

Verse 6 ends with:
“White house close at hand.”
If we look at the corner of Washington Park, we see 3 palm trees,
one of which might be the tree that casts “the long palm’s shadow”.
Not knowing what the park looked like in 1980-81, all 3 trees are
candidates.
I have combined four different aerial views of the corner of the
park with the 3 trees marked with X’s in each.  There just so happens to
be a
white house close at hand
…near a nice secluded corner…
If I were in Charleston, I would take my probe to Washington Park
and see if there were sandy soil around those 3 trees to satisfy my curiosity.
AP

I have heard from members of the Charleston Historical Preservation Society
and representatives of the Avery Research Center (African American studies).
None of them have any knowledge of any visual signs in the Charleston area
referring to E.W. Blyden. It was quite surprising that they were rather unfamiliar
with Bylden’s name or his connection with Charleston…
The quote from “Abroad in America” must be just one of BP’s obscure clues.
AP

Rebel1313

Good to know Josh. Your dig site was in Hampton Park right? I guess I will move on to another one of Byron’s verses.

Hang on Rebel1313, keep in mind the only person who thinks Josh determined that solution is Josh…

Just a few thoughts here based on the Japanese hints (thanks for posting the audio). The hint regarding “May 1913” directs one to “your history book.” Preiss told him to find a historical event. I am having trouble with the DEDICATION of the USS Maine monument as a historical event. Not sure this would show up in a history book. The reference to the USS Maine should have been “January 1898”. I have also mentioned before that the “or” seems to bookend ideas. There is no connection to Edward Blyden and the USS Maine from a historical perspective.
Edwin Booth/Actors Guild
Edward Blyden/dedication of USS Maine monument
Whichever one is correct, there is a tremendous coincidence regarding the other.

Good to know Josh. Your dig site was in Hampton Park right? I guess I will move on to another one of Byron’s verses.

Rebel1313

Good to know Josh. Your dig site was in Hampton Park right? I guess I will move on to another one of Byron’s verses.

no it was just outside white point gardens at the fort sumter association building, like i stated above…

@da vinci…as ive explained multiple times…this puzzle follows the path that the cannons take…so the reference that is referring to is this:
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d … N——–1
you can confirm this in that both mark military/naval tragedies, as does the hunley monument and (what this is a direct reference to) the tale told on the sundial that is one of the two arms extended…

its a direct reference to the latter because both occurred during practice manoeuvres.

Some pictures I took that could related to V6 (White Point Gardens and Washington Park). May or may not be a contribution…
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lir1nimps3cj0ka/DZfF9kHj8K

Nice pictures.  Thank you for posting them.

Egbert

Nice pictures.  Thank you for posting them.

Anytime! Hoping someone can see something that I didn’t!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very nice idea Shecrab.
Here is a site which shows pictures of the parts of the Maine that are in Charleston (note that a plaque mentions May 1913):
http://www.spanamwar.com/mainparts3.htm#Capstan%20south%20carolina
Here is an entire list of where the Maine’s parts are, including the anchors:
http://www.spanamwar.com/mainparts.htm

Possibly an anchor on this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladybug101 … 290156714/
two arms extended and a bar that binds?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladybug101 … 290156714/

i think you nailed it!!!!!!!! good one shecrab!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ooooh, that feels good—but don’t thank me yet—is there an anchor in Charleston???  I coudln’t find one!!!

I saw that yesterday—It doesn’t
have
to be the anchor from the Maine…does anyone know if there is ANY anchor in Charleston in one of the seacoast parks?

Here is an anchor and a ship hidden in image2.  I like this one Shecrab!!!

There is an “Anchor” in Charleston, if you take the 3rd,10th,1st,2nd,9th, and 4th, but I don’t think you mean this!

How cool…….
!!
I’m likin’ it too…and I’ve searched all morning for some park with an anchor in it–or some sort of anchor somewhere! I’m not getting far, though. Boy–St. Louis has all sorts of info about its parks all over the ‘net, but not Charleston.  SIGH….
I did find this though:
The Charles Towne Landing State Historical Site.
There are a couple of websites, and the most promising thing about this is that it has a bunch of revolutionary war cannons, AND a wild animal park–remember the lion in I2?–and a seafaring museum or something—AND the Hampton plantation house is white. One of the few–most of the plantations and row houses in Charleston seem to be any color BUT white–but the Hampton is ALL white. (White house nearby)
The CTlanding site has a replica wooden ship, but I know this was not there in 1982–they started construction on it sometime in the mid-90’s. Maybe–just maybe?–there was an anchor monument or loose in the sand on that particular site? There aren’t any good maps I’ve found on line yet.
This particular park is not on the peninsula. it’s on the mainland, across the channel.
So is there anyone there who can go to the CTLSHS and check it out? Has someone done it once before?
Excited again!

Hi GoldenGate. Just curious where you stand on Verse 6. It’s hard not to believe the starting point isn’t Portsmouth Square in SF where there is water fountain dedicated to RLS with the ship from Treasure Island on top of it. I know you have explored SF extensively though, would love to hear your thoughts.

MrBackstop

Josh your convictions of your solves are admirable, ….to a degree. But I’m with GG here. I know your spot and completely disagree with it. Granted, I don’t have the casque in my hands yet, but I haven’t been able to probe or dig my spot yet. Fortunately, I’m working with a Charlestoner who will be able to check our ideas over the next few weeks. Then I’ll know if I’m way off base like you.

uh. ok. i have two confirmations for both wpg generally and the triangle shaped sand garden specifically so i know 100% youre wrong lol…ive not released those yet…

good luck, but my spot is THE correct spot. its not disputable. its gone, washed out to sea, lost forever…but charleston rules…..go for for vegan at the gnome cafe.
whereas there is still work to do on the overall puzzle for this one…the treasure hunt is complete. houston and nola are really the only outstanding ones. and its down to my spot or trav’s spot (with my final dig spot at his location) in nola and i know exactly what to do to find the houston spot but on the ground is not going to be easy. whereas i may have just corroborated final location in st aug last week, there is still some room for dispute. all the rest are done as far as im concerned though there may be a few hidden steps in milwaukee (i havent worked through it past where we got) to discern exact dig location.

Goldengate

Sorry folks! Josh solved the puzzle (again). And while he hasn’t found any of the casques, he’s 100% right and we’re 100% wrong and that’s not disputable… because he said so. So there’s the proof. Hunt’s over. Nothing to see here. Everyone go home.

It must be exhausting for him, I know it is for me…

For those looking in White Point Garden. It is surrounded by Battery, Murray and King. There are several monuments in the park and Oyster Point. Could someone provide a site specific marker other than the May 1913 dedication date that links White Point Garden to Verse 6? There are 19 lines in Verse 6, and, respectfully, I am not following how the group has arrived at this location.

you cant just “say” im wrong you need to prove it, ive proved beyond reasonable doubt that my location is correct, though i havent revealed all that info to you…so i get your doubt (but it only proves you either havent looked at what ive done or dont know what youre doing yourself…soooo youre wrong. plain and simple…and youve offered up nothing but sh*ttalking in exchange. ive offered up loads. so blow.

bandstand, hunley monument, capstand, 51 east bay (down the st to the n), jasper statue, pirate monument, obelisk/cannon, and the plaque on the south battery down street to the west (in that order) lol…

just cause you dont want it to be solved, doesnt mean it hasnt been…if its gone its gone…theres nothing anyone can do about it at this point…such is reality. this one wasnt even very hard…at all. whereas i originally fell for the trick at first, i got it right as soon as i was there on the ground. he def made this one and roanoke easier than others because he knew they were at risk to weather…the puzzles tell us that.

JoshCornell

you cant just “say” im wrong you need to prove it, ive proved beyond reasonable doubt that my location is correct,

Actually the burden of proof falls on those who make extraordinary claims.
The only thing that will remove reasonable doubt is a physical find.
As evidenced by the number of people still working on their own solutions, I don’t think there are many people who think your solves are even slightly correct.

forest_blight

Sonoran’s theory does not explain all the lines. Sonoran attributes the first three lines (from
Treasure Island
) to “literary flavor,”…

As I mentioned in the solution I have accounted for every line of Verse 6. I thought the solution I presented showed that account. But I may have not have explained those early lines well. The answers are clear in my mind, but I may forget to communicate those answers.
Forgive me if I missed something. I will try again.
I did mention the Treasure Island references in the first 5 lines. But I don’t think the literary reference part of these lines are anything but flavor. I believe BP did not waste verse lines. It is what the lines actually say that is important. Every line has a purpose.
The first 5 lines of Verse 6 are laying a general, but strong framework for the Astor Place Opera House. Without these lines we are left with only two clues to solve the location.  Using “Edwin and Edwina named after him” and “Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended” to get us to the Astor Place Opera House would be very difficult. These obscure clues would be too difficult to solve, especially without the Internet. In 1982 we would need the following 5 lines to get an angle on Astor Place.
Of all the romance retold
The art of storytelling in the form of opera, drama, and theater.
Men of tales and tunes
Actors, singers and opera singers.
Cruel and bold
Drama. Shakespeare or Elizabethan theatre and tragedies.
Seen here
Seen where? What is seen? The first three lines (opera and drama) are what is seen and Astor Place Opera House (theater) is where they would be seen. Even without considering the Astor Place location in the first 4 lines of this verse, they are still a sound theater reference.
By eyes of old
This is the final piece to the framework. “eyes of old” is a reference to the past. Astor Place Opera House stood from 1847 to 1854. It was torn down and can no longer be seen today. This is a perfect meaning for “eyes of old”. No longer seen today.

shecrab

There is one more thing that is being overlooked about the Booth connection, and that is the obvious:
EDWIN BOOTH may indeed have been named after another Edwin–but there is no way his daughter was. Think about it. How could Booth’s
daughter
have been named after anyone but her
FATHER
?

shecrab

This whole ‘solution’ and the fact that the casque would be buried under asphalt have the ring of unbelievable to me, no matter what the circumstances are.
I don’t buy the long palm’s shadow, the “arms extended” part, the “bar that binds” part, or the Booth part either. I also don’t think the illustration on p. 2/3 has any resemblance at all to the Holley monument.

I don’t think we need to take
Edwin and Edwina named after him
literal. And I don’t think it is a stretch to assume daughter Edwina Booth is named after Edwin Forrest when she was surely named after her father.
If you really mean, “no matter what the circumstances are”, then I doubt I will ever be able to convince you of the solution. Because, the “circumstances” are where the solution is revealed.
If we look for exact matches in illustrations, pictures, and words in a verse then we will miss most of what BP is hiding. If BP presented great or perfect “resemblances” in his book this treasure hunt would be too easy,… and boring. I would be surprised if no one saw at least some subtle resemblances on Page 2 and 3. Again, for me, that picture alone is confirmation of the Holley location!
Maybe there was a planting area directly behind the Holley Monument after the 1970 renovation. Maybe it was thick asphalt and has been ever since. I have great admiration for all of you. I don’t want you to waste time off target. It would be shame to have Verse 6 off track because there is asphalt over the casque location now. We don’t know what BP encountered at the Holley Monument 25 years ago. Let’s discount New York for the solution not because we can’t envision the possibilities.
I’m not trying to beat up anyone’s ideas. We have spent a half of a year getting to this point and are very confident in the solution. It even took me a while to get my coworker Turtle123456 on board. But, he can tell you more about that. Let me know if anyone has any other questions.

Thanks for clarifying, Sonoran, and for maintaining poise in the face of heavy criticism.
I could buy everything you’re saying as a viable theory… if it weren’t for the incredible, amazing, dumbfounding coincidence of finding “Edwin and Edwina” in
Abroad in America
. What are the odds?

One of the pictures on Sonoran’s Flickr page shows the Holley monument in the 1920’s with grass all the way up to the back of it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8830991@N03/1383690891/
Does anyone know when asphalt was laid down on the backside?

cw0909

hi miyaka welcome to the hunt
if you could find a legeater in STL, that would be great
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11924414@N00/
i found some pics of the building, one was in 1890, the other was not sure thinking
maybe 30s-40s, the 1890 did not have the legeater, maybe when they overhauled the
place for the club, the legeater was added. pics are to big to post, when i get time ill
move them to webshots or someplace

sorry the pic was mislabled it was mount royal not stephens,though they look close
i think i saw it on flcker

Egbert,
I am really impressed by your finding that quote!
Great job!
AP

Sorry, someone else found that quote AP.  I am just resurrecting the discussion, trying to steer all of you in the right direction.

Dumb question {since I am sure the answer will be ‘Forest Blight’} but has anyone read this entire book,
Abroad in America
?  It is already contained quotes from 2 of the 12 casques and I am beginning to wonder if it has something from ALL of the casques.

Yes fox – Siskel and I both read the entire book, word for word, for precisely that reason. Nothing else popped out at either of us.

Oh yes…another
Abroad in America
referrence.  Thanks for pointing that out again Sir Eg.  That sure does look like a logical tie in to Charleston.  Will have to look a little further into this.  Ever since P2 seemed to be pretty concretely linked to Charleston, not a whole lot of activity has happened…possibly because of no real V linkage.  Maybe its time to use this V and start some serious work on this casque as well.

Just as I surmised FB…too bad there were no other references.

Another possible vote for White Point Gardens…has anyone brought up this for the line “Or on the eighth a scene” ? Not just the 8th (of a month for example), but the 18th or
28th
?

2fast4u2c

Sonoran, I do like your solution but something does bother me.  In the solves for the two that have been found, there has been a visual confirmer at the dig site that can also be seen in the image.  (Wall in Cleveland and fenceposts in Chicago.)  These are pretty much exact matches.  There would be two things that I would look for before I started digging at the location that you have pointed out:…
…2.  Look at the asphalt around the monument.  Is there any discontinuity?  Any thing looking like patchwork?  Unless they have did a major overhaul and repaved the entire area since 1981 (I don’t know that they would since it is only subjected to foot traffic) something like this should be noticeable.  If it is all smooth and continuous, I would reconsider it as the dig spot.

The current asphalt condition is an interesting topic. Pictures taken this year show the asphalt around the Holley Monument in bad shape. It seems , at sometime since the original 1970 renovation, the asphalt has been patched at least once. That patch itself is starting to look worn. Here is a front and back look. I have trouble sorting out wear and evidence of sinking or previous digging. What do you think?

You know, you’re not going to simply poke a hole into asphalt and get to dirt. This isn’t a question of ‘lifting’ up a paving stone.
Asphalt is typically laid over aggregate, and that can be 3-6 inches thick. Then the asphalt is laid on top of that, which is at least 6-8 inches thick. This isn’t a simple operation you’re talking about. it might even be laid over another walkway–brick, concrete, stone or other material. The “hard” material can go down a foot or more, and then you might just find MORE hard material under that.
This I have to see.

A friend and I are pursuing the St. Louis possibilities for this verse.
In May 1913 Booker T. Washington spoke at the Fourth American Peace Congress in St. Louis.  I will soon be researching a book about the congress in order to find out where the event took place.  Then again, perhaps this verse does point to Charleston.