Glossiphoniidae

The thorough report of a failure is as valuable as a find.

Being an expert at failure I can attest to that.

Uncovered a photo today with AP showing a fence that used to surround the lighthouse. If you walk down there today, without the fence, it would make more sense to pass the lighthouse on it’s southern side and enter the south lions bridge ravine. When the fence was up, this would not make a whole lot of sense as you would have to walk over both bridges and follow the woodline all the way to Whal Ave. then walk back to the entrance to the south ravine. With the fence up, it makes more sense to pass it on the north side, and enter the north ravine.
This can finally be put to rest, it was intended for us to take the north ravine because of the fence.

Interesting! Can you scan the photo for us?

this was in 1968, i think it has a copyright
http://content.mpl.org/cdm/singleitem/c … 4591/rec/2
http://content.mpl.org/cdm/search/searc … mode/exact
adding another,date unknown, rail fence in back of LH
http://content.mpl.org/cdm/singleitem/c … 4590/rec/3
http://content.mpl.org/cdm/search/searc … mode/exact

erexere

I don’t like the Grand Stair count. The numeric label on stair #56 being placed on the tread because the riser is obscured by a glove is acceptable, but the fact that the very first step is counted as a tread for which there is no immediate riser causes concern. According to the careful count of risers convention the “main” of the Grand Stair is only 91 steps, unless there’s a very good explanation for counting the tread that comes before the first riser and then the second and third treads as belonging to three stair steps when its really two risers = two stair steps.
I’m not trying to accuse anyone of intentional misinformation. I think this is just a case of human error. The Grand Stair may not be the 92-steps ascended.

cw0909…Great find of that photo of the chain link fence around the lighthouse!
Looking at photos at the Milwaukee County Historic Society today…
There were photos of the Grand Staircase (from the sidewalk) that showed
that there were indeed THREE steps at the beginning of the stairway ever
since it was created in 1907. This is a comparison of what the staircase
looks like today and what it looked like in 1990. This is what the stairway
looked like when BP ascended the “92 steps”.
(I know I should have had a copy made of one of the earlier photos in which
those first three steps could easily be seen, but there were so many photos
to look at, and this one was the closest to 1982.)
The concrete pavement leading up to the steps has since been updated
with a layer of bricks which actually were laid over the concrete, bringing
the brick layer up to the level of the first step tread.
I hope this lays to rest the question of the number of steps being 92.
AP

Aye. If true, we have two options. Lake Park and Plankinkton’s atrium.

There has been a good assemblage of clues that point to Pere Marquette. To let that be the end of the discussion is where Mr. Seabass is mistaken. While he hasnt supported his own statement perhaps he or someone else will keep the Pere Marquette discussion going. I think whiterabbit, Deuce or burnstyle had strong ideas for that area.

Your point? Four21, you are one of the top minds in this effort, why are you goofing around?

The whole point I think, without being rude, is there are people who are looking for a casque, and your theories and idea’s which aren’t geared at finding a casque as stated by you, are taking up the majority of the posts on the threads as of late. It might be a little confusing to people who want to suss out their own ideas. You made a forum for yourself to post these idea’s, just post all those existential thoughts there and let everyone stick to focusing on the simple clues and puzzles presented by the book. Every find doesn’t need to be pontificated upon, rather all of the new users should contribute back and forth on their ideas and discuss what is known and what is pertinent.

erexere

Your point? Four21, you are one of the top minds in this effort, why are you goofing around?

Does it seem like I am the one goofing around? I would put it out there all day if it weren’t for so many feet on the ground at this point. You know what I’ve been doing for the last year? Finding the things that you’ve single-handedly obfuscated.

decibalnyc

The whole point I think, without being rude, is there are people who are looking for a casque, and your theories and idea’s which aren’t geared at finding a casque as stated by you, are taking up the majority of the posts on the threads as of late. It might be a little confusing to people who want to suss out their own ideas. You made a forum for yourself to post these idea’s, just post all those existential thoughts there and let everyone stick to focusing on the simple clues and puzzles presented by the book. Every find doesn’t need to be pontificated upon, rather all of the new users should contribute back and forth on their ideas and discuss what is known and what is pertinent.

I see you point but you dont seem to be getting mine. I am VERY interested in finding a casque. My statement about focus is nust to say I have no idea how any particular piece of the puzzle informs us directly of where the casque is located. The reason for some pieces of the puzzle lack explanation and the deprivation of focus on those details is a real deterrent to pinpointing the casques.
Is there a an explanation for why we have a Juggler?
Why are there 7 objects in the juggle pattern?
Why is the Laureate sculpture in her hair?
Does its position in the image with respect to anything else represent useful geographic or geometric information? Or does something else in the image or as described by verse do so?

Where are you starting from? Why? and how did you come to this conclusion with 1984 technology?

erexere

I see your point but you dont seem to be getting mine. I am VERY interested in finding a casque. My statement about focus is nust to say I have no idea how any particular piece of the puzzle informs us directly of where the casque is located. The reason for some pieces of the puzzle lack explanation and the deprivation of focus on those details is a real deterrent to pinpointing the casques.
Is there a an explanation for why we have a Juggler?
Why are there 7 objects in the juggle pattern?
Why is the Laureate sculpture in her hair?
Does its position in the image with respect to anything else represent useful geographic or geometric information? Or does something else in the image or as described by verse do so?

The reason for some pieces of the puzzle lack explanation and the deprivation of focus on those details is a real deterrent to pinpointing the casques.
Just the opposite – your constant focus and posting and focusing on those details is exactly why the puzzles have not been solved.
Is there a an explanation for why we have a Juggler?
Yes, John Palencar painted one on this canvas that BP commissioned.
Why are there 7 objects in the juggle pattern?
The each signify one part of their clue… 1,2,3 (Millstone Walking Stick Key). 4 (the jewel), 5(the flower), 6 and 7 (two red balls for the month).
Why is the Laureate sculpture in her hair?
Cause we want it to be. The better question is, “Did BP intent it to be?” The answer is, “Nobody will ever know… why argue about it.”
Does its position in the image with respect to anything else represent useful geographic or geometric information?
Sorta, but only the jewel.
Or does something else in the image or as described by verse do so?
No.

decibalnyc

Where are you starting from? Why? and how did you come to this conclusion with 1984 technology?

I like the Mitchell Mansion/Wisconsin Club at 9th and Wells St. as a starting point. I like the idea of consulting a map produced between 1976 and 1981. (You can buy vintage maps on eBay) Using a compass predates 1984 technology. The concept of an “ordinal” and the military rank of general as one, two, three, four, or five stars also predates 1984. Giving consideration to statues or sculptures is pretty straightforward, so whats your problem? Why do you think this is an example of existentialism?

erexere

Giving consideration to statues or sculptures is pretty straightforward, so whats your problem? Why do you think this is an example of existentialism?

You don’t give consideration to sculptures and statues, you give consideration to their creative inspirations. The associated information you find is what predates 1984. That is why it is whack.

Glossiphoniidae

You don’t give consideration to sculptures and statues, you give consideration to their creative inspirations. The associated information you find is what predates 1984. That is why it is whack.

Whoa. You dont seem mentally stable with a statement like that. I never attempted to discuss creative inspirations. I merely agreed with Merlot Brougham that the statue is a great match for the shape in the hair. To ask the question what its plaque said is not a question about its creative inspiration. I expect it to have identified its artist, Seymour Lipton, and the patron for its commision. The logical question of why BP put the clue in the painting can be answered many many ways. Now if you dont agree that the sculpture is the shape 8n the hair then why are you trolling?
I think the reason for the sculpure’s commision as stated by the 1969 newspaper article could’ve also been on the plaque. As far as pre-1984 common knowledge goes, I wonder if BP might have had the intent to link something to the Rockwell Clock Tower. Those two locations on a map clas measured by a compass tool could be an applicable methid for narrowing down the casque location. You can disagree. I just dont see why you have to create so much drama over a simple supposition.

Can someone please verify where exactly is the entrance to the Performance Arts Center? Is it on the same side as the sculpture? I’m wondering if the sculpture had been moved since c.1980 since a news article from 1969 says the sculpture was commisioned for the entrance to the building and there was once a plaque on its base. Does anyone have evidence of what was said on that plaque?

erexere

At a distance
From three who lived there
West Kilbourn Ave, north Plankington Ave, and Pere Marquette park all intersect at a shared point. The Laureate statue (from the juggler’s hair) is seen to the northwest on the riverwalk next to the Performance Center.
I think Merlot is totally awesome, btw. When you consider how many truly excellent visual connections have contributed to this treasure hunt overall, Lipton’s statue is a tremendous find.

… You didn’t finish the verse…
At a distance
From three who lived there
… is actually
At a distance
IN TIME
From three who lived there
That’s important… so is space.

Do you think we should consider the map distance from the Rockwell Clock Tower to the shared point of Kilbourn/Plankington/Pere Marquette?

erexere

Do you think we should consider the map distance from the Rockwell Clock Tower to the shared point of Kilbourn/Plankington/Pere Marquette?

No. I think you should consider measurements of distance and time as physical things to be found.
With what do you measure time?
A. Bicycle
B. Torpedo
C. Second
D. Leftover
With what do you measure space?
A. Moon
B. Light
C. Darwin
D. Book
So, as I’m walking on Wells, maybe I should be looking for two things on my on the “path.” Instead of getting all metaphysical on everything, why not just take the lines at face value and look for what it tells us to look for?

Im still looking at the application of a compass on a map.
Im considering a common link between the principal owner of the sculpture and the Rockwell Clock.

erexere

Im still looking at the application of a compass on a map.
Im considering a common link between the principal owner of the sculpture and the Rockwell Clock.

I’m going to give you one E, so you don’t have to:
At a distance in
TIME
from three who lived
THERE
:
It’s not who, it’s where.

Glossiphoniidae

I’m going to give you one E, so you don’t have to:
At a distance in
TIME
from three who lived
THERE
:
It’s not who, it’s where.

I’m sorry, but I’m having trouble reading that that says.

Merlot Brougham

I’m sorry, but I’m having trouble reading that that says.

Sprechen sie deutsche?

Sorry four21, i dont follow your hint.
Im still pushing for the Allen-Bradley connection between Clock tower and sculpture. Im wondering how significant the nickname “the Polish Moon” might be in this case.

erexere

Sorry four21, i dont follow your hint.
Im still pushing for the Allen-Bradley connection between Clock tower and sculpture. Im wondering how significant the nickname “the Polish Moon” might be in this case.

Push away.

erexere

Sorry four21, i dont follow your hint.

And, it’s not a hint… it’s slapping you in the face.

Glossiphoniidae

And, it’s not a hint… it’s slapping you in the face.

I just don’t know what that word is on the building or where that building is located, and so I’m getting used to being slapped in the face for no reason

erexere

I just don’t know what that word is on the building or where that building is located, and so I’m getting used to being slapped in the face for no reason

As you are walk the
beating of the world
(Wells St.)
At a distance in
time
(Second St.)
From three who lived
there
(Germania Building)
… Now keep going.

Okay. Thats crystal clear. Nobodys been talking about the Germania building much. I wonder…

erexere

Okay. Thats crystal clear. Nobodys been talking about the Germania building much. I wonder…

… if all BP’s clues are this crystal clear, and that you can abandon the coalescing of all history, literature and space to solve the clues? My gosh, I hope that’s what you’re thinking.

Im okay with putting some of my pet theories aside. My approach to the puzzles isnt so much a desire to find a casque spot but to understand how specific ideas about each fair folk type would constrain or capture BPs focus.
Another park I looked at contains a tall statue of Count Pulaski. His title of “Count” could be workable as something to identify with the ordinal hint in the verse.

F-A-C-E-P-A-L-M

It seems like there are a lot of people who honestly have an interest in the mystery of this hunt, and would really like to take a shot at solving one or many of these. Anyone who has been looking at this for over 2 years knows that it takes a WHILE to wrap your head around how to even begin looking at these. Erexere has been posting interesting, yet somewhat far reaching possibilities for solutions to these for a while now. I think that people first coming into this hunt might not be getting a good start on this based on some of his theories. Not taking anything away from Erexere, he is as welcome to work on this as anyone is, but might I suggest to those first coming into this to go back to posts from 2004-2006 and look at how people were trying to figure things out at that point…it might give you a better head start on your own theories. Go back to a more simple time, a time when the Atkins diet was all the rage, Brittney Spears hadn’t ruined the music industry yet, and the QB for the Green Bay Packers was named Favre.

At a distance
From three who lived there
West Kilbourn Ave, north Plankington Ave, and Pere Marquette park all intersect at a shared point. The Laureate statue (from the juggler’s hair) is seen to the northwest on the riverwalk next to the Performance Center.
I think Merlot is totally awesome, btw. When you consider how many truly excellent visual connections have contributed to this treasure hunt overall, Lipton’s statue is a tremendous find.

Everyones reaching all the time. Theres clearly two main schools of thought. One where people are comfortable with a disconnected scavenger hunt primarily based on pseudo image matches, i.e. cherry pick a generic circular shape as a confirmation. The other school seeks to make sense of the connections, i.e. strong cultural reference, exact quotes, unique pointers. While I’ve been deep in both spectrums and I feel most strongly influenced by the verse connections and how they fit a trend or purpose. This Milwaukee puzzle seems like it directs our attention to the number three and the use of a compass looks like something worth testing as a concrete way of relating two or more points on a standard city map.

All I am getting at is I think you’re frightening the kids….
Maybe make a new thread for “Existential Ideas” and let the current thread pick up on the work people have done before us with this new group of interested people. I noticed the majority of posts over the last several months have been made by you in succession. Maybe give people a chance to do a little back and forth with each other and catalog the “Existential Ideas” in another thread. Since you do feel there are 2 avenues of thought, maybe let this one continue on it’s original path and make a new area for your new ideas and methods?

erexere

My approach to the puzzles isnt so much a desire to find a casque spot…

Yup. Its okay to take a break from a focus on casque location. We might be getting ahead of ourselves in some cases. Im taking a step back from force fitting things. Looking at other discrete elements of the puzzle might help develop our approach to BPs thinking in each case.
I think the sculpture at the performing arts center is important. According to the Smithsonian registry a plaque use to exist. It identified the piece of art, what else it may have said might be of importance. Thats a concrete or basic question. I dont get why anyone would consider that an existential approach.

erexere

Yup. Its okay to take a break from a focus on casque location. We might be getting ahead of ourselves in some cases. Im taking a step back from force fitting things. Looking at other discrete elements of the puzzle might help develop our approach to BPs thinking in each case.
I think the sculpture at the performing arts center is important. According to the Smithsonian registry a plaque use to exist. It identified the piece of art, what else it may have said might be of importance. Thats a concrete or basic question. I dont get why anyone would consider that an existential approach.

“… primarily based on pseudo image matches, i.e. cherry pick a generic circular shape as a confirmation.”
Wait, you mean to tell me a circle is a circle?

I prefer “to the land near the window” in verse 11 as a connection to Roanoke’s outline in image 3 as its might be similar to “from woman,” connecting to the woman in image 10 more than something like how image 11 uses a Copley painting as similar to the Marietta Robusti painting as a link to a street name.

catherwood

I cannot understand how a clue about an antique piano has anything to do with lyre-shaped lamps or an upright stringed instrument without a keyboard. I’ve quit following every theory with any mention of harps.
I do think that the comma must be important to the clue. We might not be looking for a woman AT a harpsichord, but perhaps we branch from a location tied to that woman and then procede by using a harpsichord clue in some way.

Catherwood have you seen this photo of the woman’s bust in front of the harpsichord shaped balcony?
Considering he already has us on 2nd and Wells, then guides us across the river to the Electric and LIGHT building, sending us east on Wells… the very next building is the Pabst with 2 image matches on it. The next building you see after the Pabst while continuing down Wells is City Hall. Maltedfalcon has had a longstanding theory about how to find the treasure grounds from the iconic building. Also there could be a clue in the line “from three who lived there” The three could be the city founders, Walker, Kilbourn, and Juneau…you could make some directions out of these 3 names. “Walk(er) Kilbourn (to) Juneau” These directions wouldn’t make any sense while looking at city streets, but they do make some other sense based on this hunt and the image.

For reference, guys, a harpsichord looks like this.
Marietta is the only reasonable explanation for these lines that has been put forward so far.

WhiteRabbit

For reference, guys, a harpsichord looks like this.
Marietta is the only reasonable explanation for these lines that has been put forward so far.

I disagree, where in Chicago or Cleveland does he use such an obscure clue? There is NO WAY that in 1981 you would be able to ascertain a reference to this. I’ve never heard of Marietta Robusti, and neither did anyone looking for the casque in 1981. It’s simply not the right answer. What I proposed links the searcher to local culture, and lets not forget about the 2 image matches on the door. I worked at the Pabst as an audio engineer, it’s been known as the Grand Ole Lady for a long time. I find it hard to believe one would throw away an “in your face” clue such as this, to adopt a theory based on information that would be extremely hard to find.

Maybe he REALLY meant “harps-y cord” and was describing the strings on a harp! (I’ll see myself out)

I dont support the balcony fit any more than one of my crackpot theories based on words that start with ball-, like ballet, or bal-cony. This is a visual stretch that doesnt need to be there. Leave the visual craziness to the images. I think the verse is more exact than that and this interp of the “from woman, with harpsichord” line, which is crazy, and its not as literal as you say once you start saying something looks like something else. Same goes for harp lamps.
I think the “from woman” is really something like the verse for Roanoke when it refers to the land near the window, and in this case it’s referring to the woman in the image and isolates what she is doing for the purpose of what comes next in the verse. We are faced with combining her act of juggling various objects with whatever we can do with the word harpsichord itself. That’s my logical basis for thinking harpsichord contains an anagram for a street name, since it involves selectively juggling letters. This isn’t so different than how many already agree in selectively choosing some but not all of the objects that are being juggled and saying its a rebus for Milwaukee.
At this point Im strongly leaning on the idea that what we do with HARPSHICHORD is pull out the letters to spell ORCHARD.

decibalnyc

But a lyre isn’t a harpsichord. You might as well say an elephant is a harpsichord. They’re completely different.
We know that BP used impossibly obscure references like Sarmiento. The guy was an idiot.
The proximity of Marietta to Lake Park, the Grand Staircase etc sells it for me.

With any interpretation of “the woman and the harpsichord”, we still end up at the lakefront and the lighthouse and the lion bridges. No need to squabble about this point.

Unknown

Unknown:
I disagree, where in Chicago or Cleveland does he use such an obscure clue?

Three words: “Abroad in America”. Obscure clues are an essential part of this puzzle by design, especially if you buy into the narrative that Preiss thought he was making the casques too easy to find, and had to find some way to ramp up the difficulty. So yeah, the Marietta clue is obscure. Fortunately for us, “ascend the 92 steps” couldn’t be more straighforward.

WhiteRabbit

But a lyre isn’t a harpsichord. You might as well say an elephant is a harpsichord. They’re completely different.

Euclid isn’t a triangle.
Brush and music hush are 4 arbitrary words, but they mean an art museum, a conservatory, and a library.
Rumble is not a train.
These are all word play clues just like Compass meaning Lighthouse, and Beating meaning War. You could say a compass is not a lighthouse, it’s a compass, yet when in the context of lake park, and the way BP describes things (like in Chicago), it makes total sense and works. How many people know what a Lire is, not as many as are familiar with a Harp, which is what a lay person would call the Lire on top of the Pabst.
Let’s go from this direction WR, why is he calling out the doors of the Pabst Theater in the image? If you start at Mitchell Hall, as you seem to believe…and end in Lake Park, then why would we find those image matches on the Pabst? Why would we find the image match from the hand on the Juneau Statue? All matches from downtown as is the Germania Building, and the Rail and Light building.
Also the things he calls out in the verse are also iconic…
“Pass two friends of octave”
“In the shadow Of the grey giant”
“The first chapter”
“High posts are three”
“At the place where jewels abound”
“To the number Nine eight two”
All of these relate to well known facts about the city the image is in, not obscure references that it takes specific knowledge to decode…they are general facts and are needed to link the verse to the city (or image which gives you the city). When you start the hunt knowing which city the Verse and Image are for already, you’ve skipped many steps in the puzzle as a whole already, and are at a disadvantage of knowing how they work.
In 1981 the word Mitchell as pertaining to Milwaukee’s well known facts would either reference Mitchell Int. Airport, or the Mitchell Park Domes which numbered 3 and has been nationally known since the 60s for it’s unique architecture. If you asked ANY local person in 1981 what “the 3 stories of Mitchell” were, 9 out of 10 people would refer you to the domes, not Mitchell Hall at UWM. So the first line of the verse tells us that this verse goes with image 10. Cross it off, and now start the verse…maybe you don’t know where city hall is, but he’s trying to get you there…just solve the verse clues.

Euhirudinea

Three words: “Abroad in America”. Obscure clues are an essential part of this puzzle by design, especially if you buy into the narrative that Preiss thought he was making the casques too easy to find, and had to find some way to ramp up the difficulty. So yeah, the Marietta clue is obscure. Fortunately for us, “ascend the 92 steps” couldn’t be more straighforward.

Essential?
I don’t think the obscure clues in Chicago or Cleveland were solved, yet the casques were found.

Might there also be room for “beating” as a a hint for Club as it associates with the Wisconsin Club? If we latch on to it as a clue for war, then WWI or W. WI (West Wisconsin) moves us more directly to the 92 steps of the Plankington Rotunda than a convoluted book author, street name (Wells St), Lake Park proof.
E: hey rennovator, I’m still holding on to the idea that Abroad in America is a carefully selected book title for the purpose of linking the NOLA puzzle to the Garden of the Americas and it’s 3 standing statues, since it brings all three of the Americas into the context where they “meet” for a viable option for the verse lines “the namesakes meeting / near this site”. In this case a book title seems fitting. HG Wells and a story about Martian invasion doesn’t seem like a good fit for Milwaukee.

Erexer Why would the Grand Ave. rotunda be correct? That is 4 sets of 23 steps…how can you ascend 92 steps in that case…you could only ascend 46 steps and descend 46 steps.
I get the whole 92 steps thing there but it doesn’t fit the verse in this case. Just an observation.

Savral

Erexer Why would the Grand Ave. rotunda be correct? That is 4 sets of 23 steps…how can you ascend 92 steps in that case…you could only ascend 46 steps and descend 46 steps.
I get the whole 92 steps thing there but it doesn’t fit the verse in this case. Just an observation.

I understand, you’re assuming it’s a single pass of the stairs and in that we would go up 23, down 23, up 23, and then down 23? I think the word ascended is important in helping us differentiate between walking steps (not stairs) vs walking stair-steps. The rotunda doesn’t seem to be getting us anywhere, being a loop. The center of the rotunda is a tall statue of John Plankington.
I think good evidence from other verses supports that some lines may cryptic reference to street names. Finding a statue in the center of 92 steps (stairs specifically) isn’t a bad way to hint at a street name: Plankington.
“After climbing the grand 200” starts making more sense to me now that I’m considering that the 15 letter C’s in the verse are a clever way to associate the value of 100 with traversing streets which are set in numeric address blocks of 0-99. Grand 200 can be a way of indicating 2nd street at the intersection of the “Shops of Grand Avenue”.
Update: I no longer believe 15 C’s + 200 + 100 + 92 is something to be considered as a year date. I think it’s just the C’s that are used to find a specific “15 block” path at some point. At Orchard and 2nd, I’m considering the 15 block path that goes to 7th and then south to the NE and NW corners of
Kosciuszko Park
. I have three objections to this idea so far: 1) was BP unaware that the North-South freeway construction would disrupt the path?, 2) how do we know to turn on 7th? (number of objects juggled, perhaps?), and 3) the block lengths on the north side of Kosy Park are different than those on the south side which include a 4th block since there’s a 9th place between 9th and 10th.

erexere

I understand, you’re assuming it’s a single pass of the stairs and in that we would go up 23, down 23, up 23, and then down 23? I think the word ascended is important in helping us differentiate between walking steps (not stairs) vs walking stair-steps. The rotunda doesn’t seem to be getting us anywhere, being a loop. The center of the rotunda is a tall statue of John Plankington.
I think good evidence from other verses supports that some lines may cryptic reference to street names. Finding a statue in the center of 92 steps (stairs specifically) isn’t a bad way to hint at a street name: Plankington.
“After climbing the grand 200” starts making more sense to me now that I’m considering that the 15 letter C’s in the verse are a clever way to associate the value of 100 with traversing streets which are set in numeric address blocks of 0-99. Grand 200 can be a way of indicating 2nd street at the intersection of the “Shops of Grand Avenue”.
Update: I no longer believe 15 C’s + 200 + 100 + 92 is something to be considered. I think it’s just the C’s that are used to find a specific “15 block” path at some point.

No. There is absolutely nothing in the verse that takes you from 2nd and Wells to inside of a building on 3rd and Wisconsin, he is walking you east, not southwest. Everything in the verse and image takes you East on Wells from 2nd and Wells. Just because something fits, it doesn’t make it right. 3 stories of Mitchell is the Mitchell Gardens, but that doesn’t mean to go there either. You have to know how to interpret the clues he’s giving you. There are 92 stairs going to the bell tower at city hall, but this is not the 92 steps either…you don’t go inside a building for a clue, everything is outside as it was in Chicago, and Cleveland and every other city.

decibalnyc, you quoted my post while I was editing and adding more info.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, that is, this isn’t meant to be a trol-d’oeuvre, as I’ve taken steps to review and be more critical of my own work which has often been dubious/fanatical, I can’t help but notice how often people share their ideas with an equally blind fanaticism.
I keep finding ways to produce a result that gets to Kosciuszko Park, but I also find ways to counter my own weak arguments, since there hasn’t been , much presence or interest by others to assume that role. Mostly people are content with expressing their complete confidence in Lake Park as if that’s all a person needs to do to provide a valid arguement. No, that’s just suggesting an alternative. I’m okay with alternatives and we can discuss Lake Park and the collective facts that apply just as much as any other theory.

erexere

I keep finding ways to produce a result that gets to Kosciuszko Park

Maybe focus on finding out how to follow the clues instead of blindly trying to interpret them. That’s like doing math problems without knowing what numbers mean.

I could say that better.
In past attempts, I attempted to find ways to get to Kosciuszko Park. Realizing that’s a fallacy, I shifted my focus towards not being predisposed to Kosciuszko Park and yet I’ve still found applications that might explain the arrival at the park, some of them more feasible than others.
Let’s see some of the ways I’ve attempted to puzzle out the leap from downtown to Kosciuzko:
1) image geometry. Draw a line from the spires of City Hall, through the millstone if that’s what the woman is peering at and overlay that line on a city map. I’m about 50/50 on this theory.
2) use a draft compass. Find a point downtown and take a southeast heading of 200 to get within 100 paces northwest of the park and it’s birch trees. (I have several versions of this idea some I like, others are silly)
3) a league. It’s a distance defined as how far one would walk in an hour. It looks messy on a map, but it’s surprisingly how many points of interest are just about 3 miles away from City Hall.
4) a Roman numeral code. Take the number of C’s in the verse and plot a 15 block course from 2nd/Orchard to the NW corner of Kosciuszko Park. Begin looking for birches.

Forest Blight… in 2006 when you were there…did you walk the whole path from the stairs?

Yes. And again in 2012:
http://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/lakepark.htm

I love those photo’s and confess to using a few myself!
So in 2012, after you had time to think about the whole thing, and then walk it again, did you notice anything you didn’t before? Also let’s just concentrate on the walk from the bottom of the stairs, to the bottom of the ravine. Did you happen to notice anything different from 2006 or do you feel it was pretty much the same as 06?

Unknown

Unknown:
hey rennovator, I’m still holding on to the idea that Abroad in America is a carefully selected book title for the purpose of linking the NOLA puzzle to the Garden of the Americas

Um, let it go Eric. AiA connects Verse 2 to the city of New Orleans, just like Marrietta connects Verse 8 to the city of Milwaukee. It’s really no more complicated than that.

Unknown

Unknown:
Essential? I don’t think the obscure clues in Chicago or Cleveland were solved, yet the casques were found

An essential part of the puzzle’s design. But as you rightly point out, not an essential part of the two solves we have to date.

I noticed something about these two lines,
Walk 100 paces
Southeast over rock and soil
That line break is suspicious to me, because it allows for a possible separation or independence in which 100 paces is given without a specific direction, followed by a second idea for applying southeast over rock and soil. I noticed that many of the city blocks in Milwaukee run long in the north/south direction and about half as long in east/west. The east/west distances aren’t all the same width and there are cases where they are actually about 100 paces wide.
I suppose my point is to consider these lines separately. One line suggests thwle width of a city block and the other establishes a general heading of unspecified distance from a previously well defined origin such as city hall.

So one of the harp lamps is the intent for the words “from woman, with harpsichord”?
The letter G on them is the intent for “you’ll see a letter from the country [of Germany]”?

Blocks…the pattern on the Wisconsin Club building are blocks. Surely, Dwarves enjoy playing with blocks.

erexere

So one of the harp lamps is the intent for the words “from woman, with harpsichord”?
The letter G on them is the intent for “you’ll see a letter from the country [of Germany]”?

Erexere
If you are asking me … Not sure. I noticed the harp lights and am pretty sure they’ve been talked about by other users too. I mean, they are ALL over the city. There is one at the end of my block actually. They line many of the larger streets. So I recognize they are not unique to any park. They don’t all have G s on them. I have no idea if I should make a connection to the verse based off of it…but I have no other speculations as to what the harpsicord could be referencing.
I like the idea that some verse lines stand independently of others. I mean why the comma between from woman and with harpsichord? Besides an obscure painting there seems to be no other match. Maybe it no longer exists or maybe the two never were meant to be tied to begin with.
My take went something like this when thinking about the Lake Park theory:
With harpsicord (Lightpost?)
Silently playing (see the golf course and the game being played either a. From a distance/ too far to hear or b. Silent because when playing people generally don’t talk. I’m not a golfer So could be way off but that is what i thought.)
Step on nature (enter Lake Park)

Unknown

Unknown:
But I think he was talking about the Grand Staircase, although we might never be sure why

Like “where M&B are set in stone”. There is still uncertainty about what Preiss had in mind when he wrote that line, but it didn’t prevent the Chicago puzzle from being solved. I’d like to believe that the same dynamic is at work here. That is, while it would be nice to put this piece of the puzzle in place, ultimately it’s not essential to the final solve.

Hmm…hmmm…
Why does the convention for counting stairs change after the first three counted? Looks like TWO stairs being counted as three. This would mean you have 91 steps according to the convention you adhere to with steps “4 to 92”.
Time for another pint of stout.
Could the 7 objects juggled be a 7 dwarves connection? I’m back to thinking about Time Bandits and the 6 dwarves who joined up with the kid to go visit Napoleon and steal his goodies.

decibalnyc

Let me understand….you are saying that every line of the verse should have an image confirmation or???

Oh goodness no, just that there are image confirmations as you follow the verse. I do believe whenever the verse has you change course or direction that yes, there is an image. This is based on my understanding of Cleveland and Chicago as well as a lot of new stuff in Boston. I have a sense for how often you see images, now having walked a bunch in my city. It’s not every 20 feet, and the Milwaukee puzzle seems less image heavy than Boston. But there are no multiple turn directions that won’t have a Polaroid shot or two along the way.

I’ve walked the steps many times. The original staircase is 92 steps, you don’t count the additional steps that were added on after the promenade was torn down and the additional steps were added. The Grand Staircase as Olmsted designed it, has 92 steps.

erexere

Good job, wilhouse, (in 2005). Plankington arcade’s 92 stair steps at 200 Grand Ave does have some potential. The big question, “where to next?”

Sorry, I have not been keeping up with the Milwaukee hunt as much as the others. 2 questions, which may have been answered before:
1. Does Plankington Arcade really have an address of 200 Grand Ave? If so, that is more than just a coincidence to me. 92 steps and the Grand 200?
2. For the Grand Staircase, there are 92 steps to the top if you take 1 of the paths. What if you add up all of the stairs from both paths, including steps that go nowhere? Do you get to 200?
Thanks.

Okay. Is there any proof of the Olmstead version? This whole “it was 92 steps” info is somewhat controversial.

erexere

Okay. Is there any proof of the Olmstead version? This whole “it was 92 steps” info is somewhat controversial.

I am telling you 1 person to another, that I have walked them many times, and it counts out to 92 steps. You don’t have to go to the original plan you just have to believe that I have walked them and can count…I know it’s difficult these days for people to do anything without a cell phone or Ipad assisting them, but somehow I was able to count and walk the stairs at the same time….I know I can’t believe it either so I did it like 50 more times since then…a lot of the time I see people in the middle section playing with their phone’s and I’m like…”It’s ok brother…just keep walking up….you don’t need the phone…life does not need recalculation”

Sorry to persist on this topic, but you walked and counted them *before* some new construction took place? The photo spread cited by forest_blight courtesy of stercox seemed like it was years ago when stercox was more active in these forums. I thought you were a new member here and a recent Secret enthusiast. Can you source anything to help remove any doubt on the 92 stair count?
Surely I missed a post where someone verified these facts 10 years ago. I’ll dive in and have another look. I dont recall seeing clear proof of this when I joined this hunt 3 years ago as I only skimmed some threads.
Edit: I want to trust the careful count by Varin back on July 22, 2004 of 95 steps (not counting the 3 but including the 4 on the bottom below the main). Is the situation basically that some construction happened after 1982 where 4 stairs were added to that lowest landing and the very first step of the main staircase was brought to level with the new ground? Thats the only way I can see this playing out.

Egbert, I believe Plankington Arcade is inclusive of the 200-299 block on Grand Ave. The part that becomes controversial is whether it was accessible to the Byron for the purpose of the hunt if the area wasnt open to the public until 1982. The stairs and wishing well statue are historic, and I find it hard to believe it was a private area inaccessible to the public for any period of time other than for the purpose of construction/remodeling/improvement. The address is easy verifiable, but Ive not seen absolute proof of access for Byron to have had access assuming he needed some time to setup and hVe ready for a Nov. 1982 publication.
Grand Stair vs 200 Grand Ave are both ambiguous delending on what direction you want to go in.

wilhouse

have we checked to verify that’s it not an address or something of that sorts (200 grand street, for instance?)
wilhouse

Good job, wilhouse, (in 2005). Plankington arcade’s 92 stair steps at 200 Grand Ave does have some potential. The big question, “where to next?”

Unknown

Unknown:
Does Plankington Arcade really have an address of 200 Grand Ave? If so, that is more than just a coincidence to me. 92 steps and the Grand 200?

Technically, no. The historic building that houses the steps in questions is actually located at the corner of West Wisconsin Avenue and North Plankinton Avenue (100 block of W. Wisconsin), and is part of the whole Shops of Grand Avenue, which opened in 1982 (currently for sale at $4.75 Million if you are interested). It’s likely that this whole area would have been inaccessible to Preiss at the time he was researching and writing
The Secret
. Since that last part is speculation on my part, I’ll list several other reasons why I don’t think this particular area fits the puzzle (well, besides my slam dunk comment earlier):
1) It’s indoors. In no other puzzle has anyone even remotely suggested that you have to go inside a building at any time. And if you are looking to bury something, inside is one of the last places you want to be as the difficulty factor increases exponentially. Now, if someone can show me an arrest record from 1981 for a man with a shovel inside the Plankinton Arcade, I’ll reconsider.
2) There is no definitive proof offered that this staircase (actually four separate staircases) has 92 steps. It’s possible that each staircase has 23 stairs (for 92 total) but that has not been proven as far as I can see.
3) There is no simple or logical explanation offered as to how the verse leads us there, or where to go once we have climbed up the staircase and find ourselves on the second story of a building.
4) The “compass” at the base of the staircase looks more like a star pattern than a compass rose. The latter usually has alternately sized triangles to distinguish the cardinal points. The triangles on the floor are all the same size.
“Ascend the 92 steps” refers to the Grand Staircase. There is no hope otherwise.

Unknown

Unknown:
What if you add up all of the stairs from both paths, including steps that go nowhere? Do you get to 200?

Assuming the right side is symmetrical to the left (as you face the stairs from below), and assuming the 92 count is correct, then we only need to add the right side curve (50 steps) and the steps to nowhere (3) to get an accurate count of the staircase as a whole (145). It’s a good idea, but we are way short.
One other problem with “climbing”. If we are talking about steps, that would put us almost 120′ higher (at an average of 7.25″ per step) than the top of the Grand Staircase (as a frame of reference, the lighthouse is only 74 feet). And yes, I looked there even though it’s inside. It looks like a normal height staircase riser (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Poin … stairs.jpg
). There might be a few trees in Lake Park that approach that height, but that’s about it as far as I can tell.
As I’ve said before, there is much about the “after climbing the grand 200” that doesn’t make any sense. But the explanation for what precedes it, and the clues that follow, are sound. For now, I’m willing to ignore it and focus on the treasure ground. That just seems like a more efficient use of time and resources than trying to figure out this one clue.

Technically speaking:
Grand Avenue has been renamed Wisconsin Avenue.
The 92 steps are of a set of 4 stairs of 23 steps each in a rotunda centered in the atrium of one single large building addressed at 161 W. Wisconsin Ave. As a point of reference is possible to refer to the site a number of ways: 200 Grand, ~150/161 Grand, or possibly ~650 N. Plankington.
It’s a historic building, so it’s entirely reasonable for Preiss to assume it would retain its historic character although it wasn’t admitted into the NRHP until 2000. It was sold to developers in 1980 and became annexed to the splendid new shopping mall. Looks like they built a nice sky bridge connecting the two block buildings, but all in all retained the historic character of the building.
I don’t have the opinion that the pattern in the center of the rotunda looks like a compass rose. I believe the meaning of “pass the compass” refers to a physical object that you can manipulate. If the compass is seen as the North Point Lighthouse, then the verb ‘pass’ means to go beyond during the course of travel. If we’re talking about an actual compass like a tool you can hold in your hand, then it may be the kind that points to magnetic north or the kind which draws a circle based on setting a radius and origin on a piece of paper. The object can be handed or passed to another person, or itself may be used to draw a path which as a way of showing movement from one point to another, which then uses ‘pass’ in the first sense and not the latter.

Here’s how I envision the puzzle:
Anyone with a copy of Abroad in America, could you check the last entry where it talks about H.G. Wells? Just curious if there’s anything useful.

Forget about copyright for a moment,

Egbert

2. For the Grand Staircase, there are 92 steps to the top if you take 1 of the paths. What if you add up all of the stairs from both paths, including steps that go nowhere? Do you get to 200?
Thanks.

If you add 92+92+3 steps that go nowhere, and the 3 added to the bottom, Ironically, you would get 200 so here we find another dual meaning…the CC shape, and the total # of stairs up and back down is 200 including the landing at the bottom and the 3 mid stairs that just take you near the flower bed in the middle.

Unknown

Unknown:
If you add 92+92+3 steps that go nowhere, and the 3 added to the bottom, Ironically, you would get 200

I don’t want to belabor the point, because I really don’t think it affects the final solve, but I can’t see any scenario (other that going up and down certain stairs arbitrarily) where you get to 200 steps.
-If you go up and back down, that’s 184
-If you go up and back down, and include the middle 3 (even 4 times) that’s 196
-If you count all the stairs once, that’s 145
Two hundred makes no sense. Climb makes no sense. I could see this being another clue for getting from LMD up to Lake Park, but we have already “ascended” to that level via the documented “92 steps”. The only thing that fits is “grand” and Grand Staircase, and that’s just not enough of a connection to me.

The book was published in 1982, does anyone know when BP buried the casques? Is there anything on record about it or are we guessing?

Euhirudinea

I don’t want to belabor the point, because I really don’t think it affects the final solve, but I can’t see any scenario (other that going up and down certain stairs arbitrarily) where you get to 200 steps.
-If you go up and back down, that’s 184
-If you go up and back down, and include the middle 3 (even 4 times) that’s 196
-If you count all the stairs once, that’s 145

You’re right, my math was way off…it’s been a long day already 🙂
So Egbert…no it would be 195 in total.
I still believe it’s just an affirmation of direction. You can’t see the double C in the staircase until you are above it looking down, so he’s just saying “After climbing the staircase”….because think about it…there is an uphill road only 20 feet from the grand staircase (Ravine Rd.) he says “Ascend the 92 steps” that could mean walk up the hill, if he wanted you to take the stairs, saying “After climbing the Grand 200” is just confirming you are on the right path. My interpretation at least.

Unknown

Unknown:
My interpretation at least.

Good enough for me. You are on the ground and if there is one thing I’m learning, facts on the ground trumps Google Maps, all other things being equal.

I’m dubious about the CC. I’m looking at a photo and it seems a highly unlikely description. But I think he was talking about the Grand Staircase, although we might never be sure why.

Unknown

Unknown:
The book was published in 1982, does anyone know when BP buried the casques? Is there anything on record about it or are we guessing?

I just always assumed that all the legwork for the book was done in 1981. I just don’t think there is enough time in one calendar year to do everything necessary to have a book like this published, especially when you consider that he probably didn’t put them in the ground in the north until spring, and putting them in the ground is one of the first things (after commissioning them of course) that needed to be done. So late spring to early fall of 1981 would be my best guess.

f_b, that”s something I thought might be the case. It’s frustrating to fact check the details of the past. I have to think this is the phantom-step until some proof is produced. Even though the brickwork at the base is proven newer, it’s not a guarantee that step #1’s riser was sacrificed.

Just breaking it down to more basic terms….
Is there any other location in Milwaukee, where all of the things from the verse are in one general location? I would be more than willing to dismiss lake park and examine another park or area of town that has all of these elements located within a 2-3 mile area, where one clue leads to the next and makes sense.
There are too many coincidences that are right up BP’s alley…The Grand Staircase and The Grand 200, The compass and the NORTH POINT lighthouse…the bridges, the ravines’s or culverts… IF there was another area where this all made sense…I would love to find it…but from anything of Mitchell that has 3 stories…weather you are talking the Mansion, or the Domes, there is nothing else that fits better than Lake Park…even with the disagreements about the verse…it still makes the most sense.

Unknown

Unknown:
I have to think this is the phantom-step until some proof is produced. Even though the brickwork at the base is proven newer, it’s not a guarantee that step #1’s riser was sacrificed.

Easy enough to check if it was important enough. Discretely remove on of the dentil bricks (the ones that run perpendicular to the tread) and see if the riser of what we are calling the first tread is made of granite, and how far down it goes.
When there is a change in material, conventional masonry stairs put the first tread above the landing, and not on the same plane as it appears in the picture. But if you had to raise the level of the landing for any reason, then it makes perfect sense that you would raise it up so it was in line with the first tread to avoid a smaller first step (which can be a real tripping hazard). The alternative is to excavate the landing, or cut away the first tread so you can account for the thickness of the brick, and both of these options are significantly more work that the method that they employed here. There is nothing about that picture that is inconsistent with this theory, as far as I can tell.

The case being that the inner workings of these puzzles is still unknown and any conception based on Cleveland or Chicago is a work in progress that hasn’t brought any certain results for the other puzzles, I think its saying something that we have narrowed our focus to a relatively small number of options limited to a select few methodologies.
When you say something makes sense, you’re arguing for an oversimplification of what entails a host of different processes depending on how many components are in play. If you allow yourself to be convinced of a specific location based on preponderance, you’re really expressing the view that the puzzle couldn’t possibly be designed otherwise because it would mean BP was an evil genius.
I like the example of the North Point Lighthouse. Supposing we don’t have absolute proof of there being 92 steps, if its only 91, we’re allowed to assume BP made a slight error of no consequence. That NPL is just a small distance away and it fits a clever idea that a directional compass ALSO points north, it forges an immutable course in our minds. Is this BP’s straightforwardness or a case of evil genuisitis?
We do have alternatives. Its only opinion that separates one prospect from another. We label something as significant and making sense at the risk of exercising faulty judgement. Cleveland and Chicago have left us scant evidence of their inner workings. When were given step by step guidance to the casque but still questioning why BP mixes up right with left, we cant say much with confidence as we interpret puzzles which have even less direct guidance. If NPL is to be an imaginative component of the solution, then I’d expect we’ve thoroughly tested the more literal options first. But we haven’t. The directional compass would require a strong point of reference and a heading. A heading would be something like “southeast” or 135-degrees (headings are generally set at 0-degrees = north and increase towards 360-degrees clockwise). The other compass option would be a draft style compass using a map and taking a point-to-point read of distance as a method for approximating the time it takes to navigate a course. This draft compass is practically the same as a divider, only one end has a writing implement, which may be used for drawing an arc. These may seem like intimidating tools to the feint of heart, but should we rule them out so quickly just because we have a more imaginative possibility within reach or because we would argue Chicago and Cleveland didn’t use maps and map tools?

Euhirudinea

But the verse does gives us an exact location to dig:
In a rectangular plot
Beneath the tenth stone
From right to left
Beneath the ninth row from the top
Of the wall including small bricks
Our line experiment suggests one as well. Problem is, they are on opposite sides of the planter. There are only four possibilities that reconcile both conditions:
1) The verse has a directional error in it. Change “right to left” to “left to right” and we are good to go. Everything fits together nicely.
2) The interpretation of the verse is wrong. Egbert was there, so perhaps he is the best person to ask if this was a possibility. But as written, it only works if you are counting stones as you face away from the wall. Kinda hard to do.
3) The interpretation of the line experiment is wrong. It suggests the planter, but it is not meant to suggest the exact spot in the planter.
4) The casque was buried on the left side, but shifted to the right side over the 20 years that it was in the ground, either naturally or during a remodel.
Since I’m not sold on the idea of the geometry leading to an exact dig spot, I’m leaning toward the first explanation as being the most likely. But I’m willing to be convinced if you can show how it works for Chicago and Milwaukee. I just can’t see how those images allow the same level of precision that you are touting in Cleveland.

The only way that the verse is correct for Cleveland is if you are standing in front of the wall and counting the stones. Then, you have to go to the back of the wall to dig in the spot you get to. This just does not make much sense to me, since BP gives the clue “7 steps up you can hop,” which puts you at the back of the wall.
So, it is possible that BP just made a mistake and mixed up left and right. That conclusion does not bode well for the rest of the verses – hopefully he did not make any other “mistakes.”
That sort of confirms my impression of BP – that he was somewhat of an “absent minded professor” type – very smart, but sometimes can make a simple error.
To tell you the truth, with all of the excitement after finding the casque, taking photos, washing off the pieces, and having to rush to drive home many hours, no one ever bothered to check and see if the verse was correct if you were standing in front of the wall.
If someone is in the Cleveland area, it would be great if you could double check this. To answer everyone’s question, yes, the casque was found on the right hand side of the planter, if you are standing behind the wall and facing the wall.
So, the geometry referred to above seems to hit the location of the casque in the planter.

Unknown

Unknown:
So, the geometry referred to above seems to hit the location of the casque in the planter.

Thank you for your feedback. There is so much uncertainty and second-guessing with these puzzles, even with things that we believer to be accurate beyond a reasonable doubt (hello again 92 steps). It’s nice to know that some things are absolute.

I don’t like the Grand Stair count. The numeric label on stair #56 being placed on the tread because the riser is obscured by a glove is acceptable, but the fact that the very first step is counted as a tread for which there is no immediate riser causes concern. According to the careful count of risers convention the “main” of the Grand Stair is only 91 steps, unless there’s a very good explanation for counting the tread that comes before the first riser and then the second and third treads as belonging to three stair steps when its really two risers = two stair steps.
I’m not trying to accuse anyone of intentional misinformation. I think this is just a case of human error. The Grand Stair may not be the 92-steps ascended.

I understand what you’re saying, erexere. But remember the steps are very old, and the bricks at the bottom are (relatively speaking) much newer. It’s likely that the bricks cover the first step or half-step, so that the first riser is now flush with the bricks.

I was just pointing out what I found as an explanation for the number 200, what would be an alternative logical conclusion for 200 other than giving one a direction?

Egbert

I think the 200 degrees is just a coincidence – just like the 130 degrees over Lincoln’s shoulder in Chicago was a coincidence (10 x 13). The wording of the verse “after climbing the grand 200” doesn’t quite jibe with 200 degrees after ascending the 92 steps.

But it would jibe with the very next line which says the word Compass right in it.
IMO Preiss didn’t use the word lighthouse as there is only 1 Lighthouse in a park with a staircase, THAT would have make it too easy. A puzzle within the verse, is totally in line with what is consistent. A verse that has the word Compass, South, West, Southeast, and the numbers 200 and 100 (100 ironically would also be southeast) certainly has enough “read between the lines” data for one to at least consider this option. I wouldn’t use the Chicago 130 degrees compass theory as a comparison, I also think that was a coincidence.

That is interesting. I did not know the fence and fixture were that far away from the treasure. I thought they were only a few feet away, from the overhead pictures that have been posted. I think you have to go back to the basic theory that the Images only get you to the general location, and that the Images also have “confirmers” of things you can see either standing on the treasure spot or walking around the area. Then, the Verse gets you to the exact spot to dig.
The Images for Chicago and Cleveland both had quite a number of “confirmers” you can see in the area as you walk around. (Interestingly, since the Cleveland treasure was hidden behind the Greek wall, there are actually NO “confirmers” you can see while standing on the treasure spot. They are all blocked by the wall.) Also, the Verses both mention something important you can see in the respective Images and walking around the treasure ground – “Fence and fixture too,” and “Seek the columns”. Maybe the lines in the Verses are designed to do nothing more than tell you which Image goes with which Verse. For Roanoke, you have “the land near the window,” and as you know, there are others.
So, in summary, I do not think there is anything in the Image which would get you to the exact spot – that is what the Verse does.

The fencepost is just a few feet from where the casque was unearthed.

Forest, there is a fencepost near the burial site, but the one with the halo over it is about 30 yards away from the digspot.
Standing at the digspot in Chicago, granted this is not 1980, but standing at that spot…in my opinion, it’s an arbitrary spot…. It’s at “the end” of 10 by 13 in the sense there was 13 trees along the fence side, and 11 or 9 along the Jackson side, putting the end of 10 by 13 between the last tree 13 on the fence side, and the tree next to in going on down Jackson. The spot was not directly in-between the 2 trees, rather about a foot from the bridge and closer to the fence treeline than the Jackson St. treeline (you can only see like 3 or 4 of the original trees today).
So if he is just trying to get you close without a way to determine a precise digspot that requires “a little digging,” Then he had every intention of only revealing the digspot to people who contacted him so that he could vet them and find out if they did the puzzle right before giving up the actual location. I am still 50/50 on this idea as the Cleveland Casque was pinpointed exactly and required no guessing.
Back to Milwaukee…there is another option, again based on the verse. He has us taking 100 paces (southeast at 100 degrees ironically)…perhaps its the same thing here. The 3 matches we have based on the verse is Degrees, or Paces.

The yellow arrow is the casque site, the red arrow is about where the fencepost was

I’ve tried to visually line up that fencepost with the digspot, but the location where the fixture sat is too close to the tracks to line up. I’ve walked from the fencepost to the digspot…there’s 1 tree in the way, and it’s just an arbitrary thing sitting there in the middle of the walk from lincoln to the end of 10 x 13.
THE ONLY thing logical that crossed my mind, is he marked that side of the plot somehow as to say, THESE 13 tree’s…here on this side…but… That’s like one of the biggest clues in the image. Is it there to say Hey this side of the plot by the railroad tracks, not that row along Columbus. However he points out the Fixture on the bridge also, and it’s also in the image…much smaller, but there.
Why is that Fencepost there, and why is it so big as to say DIG HERE, but if you do…you find nothing…sound familiar?

I guess in the same sense…. Why is that 200 there? If we can find the Lighthouse on our own, why is that 200 there?

forest_blight

True for Cleveland but not, as far as I know, for Chicago. Fenceposts like this can be found all up and down the railroad pit in Grant Park, but the “halo” fencepost is a good block away. Was there one like it near the casque site? It’s possible — the post with the halo is also distinguished by a ramp-like concrete protrusion leading up to it (which you can see in the photo). There is only such concrete “ramp” in the section of the park where the casque was buried, but the halo is missing, and it wouldn’t have been within touching distance anyway. I’ve been trying to determine if there was still a halo on it in 1981. The answer may be in some photographs I found that are owned by the Chicago Historical Society, but to get really detailed versions would cost way too much, so I abandoned the search.

maltedfalcon

I visited the site in the mid to late 90s and
all the halos were in place along the fence
.
the dig site was specifically inidicated by the lines:
The end of ten by thirteen
Is your clue
Fence and fixture
Central too
so equidistant between the halo fencepost and the fixture and lined up with the trees …
that is a specific dig spot… and it turns out is where they dug and found the casque.
That is much more specific than “1,250 square feet”
actually being more like 10 square feet.
Why do you insist on ignoring so much of the verse?

It is highly likely that every such fencepost once sported one of those “halo” barriers. I unearthed some relevant posts:
August, 2008, “The Chicago Treasure”:
This is from a thread in the Image 5 forum, Dec. 2014 (emphasis added):

With the Fencepost being in red and the fixture being in red, and yellow being where it was found. Is this how we believe it was supposed to be lined up?

Yes, that is how I always understood it. Nice graphic.

So if this is the case, and I’ll verify with M, then we have 2 precise spots pointed out for “a little digging.”
Back to the 200.
The Grand Staircase has no sign at the entrance of it. There is no assignment of a name to the stairs, other than the park map which signifies it as the Grand Staircase, which it has been called as a feature of the park…just as the Promenade which was removed would have just been called “the Promenade” so the term Grand Staircase comes from the object itself.
Ascend the 92 stairs
After climbing the grand 200
why is that 200 in there?

The prevailing theory is that the landing resembles two capital C’s, the Roman 200. It sounds a bit hokey, but it’s all we’ve got.

all the talk about fenceposts had me confused as to which verse this thread was for. I like the reminder that “the compass” could be a circle-drawing object like that in a Masonic emblem. So you climb the stairs and are facing a building NOW but in the past could there have been a design in the ground or on a post which is no longer there? It is THE compass and not just a compass, and one must pass it rather than use it.
Punctuation matters, and is often essential in free verse, but our verses have none. “Ascend the 92 steps after climbing the grand 200” is a different meaning from “Ascend the 92 steps. After climbing the grand 200…” I read it as the latter, where “the Grand 200” is equivalent to “the 92 steps” and both are simply the same set of stairs. Why? Poetry.

The top of that staircase, aside from any change of gardening, has remained the same. There were no signs, no writing, nothing to resemble a compass. I would think that the assumption of the North Point Lighthouse being our “compass” in the verse is correct. There is nothing to equate that 200 to anything relating to the staircase, the top of the staircase, or anything you could see from the staircase.
Also here’s another thing to think about. In 1983, if you were following the verse, once you got into lake park and had to know which way West, and southeast, and south were, how would you figure this out? You can’t use Lake Michigan as a reference because of the point lake park sits on. You can see the lake to your north east, east, and southeast from lake park. To be able to follow those directions correctly you would need a compass.
If we look at the Milwaukee image itself, the first thing we are presented with is a puzzle. There is defiantly some riddles going on with the verse as well…”The beating of the world” “Cast in copper” “Pass the Compass.”
They are puzzles within puzzles…and I feel there is a LOT more going on in this one aside from just this mysterious 200.

Speaking of Chicago, it does raise an interesting question…The ironic mistake about 10×13=130 and then using a compass from Lincoln, it takes you right to the fence post in the image. First off, why is that fence post pointed out in the image? It’s no where near where the treasure was found. When I went there for that interview, I stood at the approximate spot, based on the fence by the RR tracks and the tree I saw in the shot Robert took where he placed the book as a marker. That fence post in question is at least 30 yards away more towards the middle of the section. From the dig spot it could be seen, but askew and a ways away. Also standing at Lincoln, you can’t see the fence post, tree’s are in the way…perhaps you could see it from there in 1981, it’s only an assumption.
SO…Why is it there?
Is it just there for you to look at as you walk by counting trees? It’s a pretty big clue in the image, to think it’s just there arbitrarily, on the treasure grounds, 30 yards from the treasure…but not indicating a digspot in any way. What was it for? We know where the casque was buried, so what was that Fence and Fixture pointed out in the verse AND the image there for? (Unless you read the verse line as a geographical direction placing you at the end of 10 by 13 and centered between the fence and electrical fixture on the bridge??)
The reason I think it’s also equally important to figure out what the 200 means… if Chicago had not been found and we were looking today….tell me people wouldn’t be putting holes all over that fence post area, it would be the most logical place to dig, especially had Cleveland come out of the ground first. If the construction of that bridge disturbed the area where the casque was, which it surely did, as well as remove the “Fixture” then the casque would be gone and we would be looking at that fence post trying to figure out what 10 by 13 meant.

So, decibalnyc, I presume you are interpreting the verse in a way where the punctuation would look like this:
Ascend the 92 stairs. After climbing the grand, 200.
In other words, BP is saying that after you climb the Grand Staircase, his next instruction is just a number – 200. Meaning, “go 200 degrees” from where you are standing.
That is possible, I suppose.
It is a bit like, if he wanted you to turn left, the verse would read, “After climbing the grand, left.” And without punctuation: “After climbing the grand left.”
decibalnyc, am I getting your interpretation correctly?

Sort of…
I get what you’re saying. You would think there would be a comma after grand to indicate a separate instruction, but there’s not. There’s also not anything related to the stairs or staircase or the building which applies to 200 either.
I’m not saying it’s 200 degrees, but certainly that is the first thing that would come to mind in trying to figure it out when the next line says compass, and there are all these specific directions in the verse. It made sense to me that one would need a compass to navigate the verse correctly, so I just kept following my hunches.
The problem at the top of the stairs is that you can go either way and you will come to a bridge and a culvert and all that… so you could then, as some on other sites have done, try and shoehorn “the compass” to fit a solution…OR we could take another look at what on earth that 200 could mean, why it’s there, and how it could make any sense in having us go somewhere from the top of the stairs.
I’m not trying to force a solution, just trying to get people to start offering suggestions as to what that 200 is for…I found something interesting with a compass..what else could it be…other opinions?

The Northpoint lighthouse not being used as the “compass” would be such a waste of a terrific pun on BP’s part…

Also if he used the word Lighthouse or any easy reference to Lighthouse, then he’s given the park away immediately. Only one park with a big staircase and a lighthouse in it. This is why I think he’s using puzzles inside of puzzles…riddles, word games, single letters as proper nouns, image self referencing, 1 word in a title changed to disguise the title, maps of the cities inside the image. He plays phrasing games CONSTANTLY in the verses… Pass the Compass, Near Ace is high, Ride the man of oz, and on and on… So it’s concurrent with the simple fact that these are full of riddles and puzzles, that the North Point Lighthouse, would be the compass, just like ride the man of oz suggests the Baum ferry or hwy just like Falls gently in December night means Snowflake.
There is a reason the 200 is there, and I think it relates to the other large number he’s giving out in the verse.

One more post to get off the “666”…!

Unknown

Unknown:
The book I have is Milwaukee Streets: The Stories Behind Their Names by Carl Beahr (1995).

I believe
Fox
offered up Edna Frida Pietsch (a famous German female composer born in Milwaukee)  a long time ago as our possible harpsichord woman.  Fox thought it may be a reference to her grave site.  Upon further research, Ms. Pietsch was born in 1894 and died in July 1982.  There was a very extensive article about her in the Milwaukee Sentinel on March 31, 1978 (which I can’t veiw on line–its archived).  Although a renowned composer, she lived her entire life in Milwaukee in her
family’s original home where she also gave Piano lessons to children
.  I tried to EM the webmaster from the EFP website homepage–but they have not responded about where that home is located.  It could be in those neighborhoods.  Harpsichord may be a synonym for piano (although I believe she did also compose for harpsichord, as well as many other instruments).  There was a book that I researched while in Milwaukee by a female author (different from the book above), at the local book store, that pictured all the homes in this historic district, with the original home owner names. I was not looking for her name at that time, just the street names.  We may need to check that out while we’re down there, I might try contacting the historical society before then–just to see if Fox was right.  The only concern I have is EFP died probably after
The Secret
had gone to print (although officially published in November 1982).  Possible???

Unknown

Unknown:
I tried to EM the webmaster from the EFP website homepage–but they have not responded about where that home is located. It could be in those neighborhoods.

Definitely possible – thanks for reminding us about fox’s idea.
I sent a query to UWM Libraries – maybe they can look it up and tell us. I’m also trying to obtain her obituary through interlibrary loan, and that may indicate where her grave is located. Morbid, maybe, but useful.

WhiteRabbit

I found this picture in Stercox’s Milwaukee album labelled “R1 Culvert end”…
http://news.webshots.com/album/548906299aPUQAZ
Is that rocky trail a footpath, or a culvert, or both…? Is there general agreement that the “culvert” in the verse is referring to something like this…? Do both of the lion bridges have them…?

WhiteRabbit,
It is definitely a trail…in the culvert.
The South Lion Bridge culvert/trail is composed of landscape timbers and dirt.
The North Lion Bridge culvert/trail (Stercox’ Ravine 1) is composed of stones and dirt…”rock and soil” in verse 8.
That is one reason to equate the “100 paces over rock and soil” with the North ravine/culvert.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Hopkinson
Besides his work on designing the US flag, Francis Hopkinson was one of Americas first composers of music.. He published the Seven Songs for Harpsichird or Piano Forte.

I’m constantly reminded that there’s a methodology to this verse that involves an already established dig spot. I gain some clarity on there being only the slimmest chance of any specific numerology behind a feature that has exactly 92 steps. I think that it’s circular and that it has 4 sections is much like the juggler having a circle of relatively “equal” items, that is whatever their shape, they are being treated equally as juggled objects. I also think a “what goes up, must go down” concept might be at work in this. Could be a flag, the sun, a rocket, etc.
When I think of the Mitchell mansion example, we have a building composed of several floors. Three main levels with an observation tower climbing two levels more, followed by a flagpole, which I’m hoping existed back when this hunt started. The woman’s cape even looks like a flag in how it catches the wind. Maybe the cane/walking stick is needed to be orientated with a specific pole, ideally an actual flag pole.
From woman, with harpsichord
A curious controversy came to my attention and perhaps worthy of a dwarf’s attention, the design of the first flag of the United States is thought to be
from a woman
. I think most people would say it was Betsy Ross, but it turns out Francis Hopkinson, a man well known for his playing of the
harpsichord
, is credited for the flag’s design and he even demanded payment from Congress in form of drink, a “quarter cask of the public wine”. Is that not exactly how a dwarf would barter services?!
Flagon…

Still trying to find a “proud tall” link to something useful… If only there were a link between birch and cedar trees…
Here is a literary quote from
Edmund Spenser The Faerie Queen, bk.1, canto1, stanzas 8^9.
which includes the words “birch” and “proud and tall” (referring to a cedar).
“The sailing pine, the cedar
proud and tall
, The vine-prop elm, the poplar never dry, The builder oak, sole king of forests all, The aspen good for staves, the cypress funeral. The laurel, meed of mighty conquerors And poets sage, the fir that weepeth still, The willow worn of forlorn paramours, The ewe obedient to the benders will, The
birch
for shafts, the sallow for the mill, The myrrh sweet bleeding in the bitter wound, The warlike beech, the ash for nothing ill, The fruitful olive, and the platan round, The carver holme, the maple seldom inward sound.”

Going to walk the riddle again today and try to verify some suspected information…no plans to dig or prod, just observations…I’ve been down the path a hundred times by now…it’s a bit wet today so we’ll see how the ravine goes…Also as I do once a week, going to my other suspected place and looking for more visual confirmations.
I have concluded that the “Beating of the world” line must simply mean to walk down Kenwood …weather it is a obscure reference from an old synagogue on Kenwood, a Kitchen Mixer, or a Car Stereo…I have to guess that BP meant take Kenwood to the park.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the old Mitchell Mansion or the statues near Marquette…BP would have been attracted to an area of the city that had Monuments, Parks, and Wooded areas. I don’t see him trekking through the Plankington Arcade and sitting down with a map and compass to plan an elaborate equation to end up in Kozy Park. It’s possible but the extent of math he has used was more cerebral rather than technical…. 10 by 13, benches in the form of a calender…all things you can figure out without knowing what a Locus is or having a compass.
I have an honest question…
Does anyone think this casque still remains unfound?
There was 1 super effort to retrieve this casque and it wasn’t found…through the accolades of prominent members of this community it seemed like it was resolved – that the riddle had been solved. Because Stercox, Forest, Pine, AP, and others didn’t locate the casque…are we resolved that it’s either…
1 Not there
2 Too hidden to locate by clues anymore
3 Had been missed in the first dig somehow
4 was maybe taken by a city worked who didn’t know what it was
5 Buried under a retaining wall in concrete
6 is in another location
I’ve been seeing theories lately on other places it may be, but not from AP, Fox, Stercox, forest, pine, or even digger, slappy etc… seems like there is a stall…what is the party line on this….was it solved several years ago and just not found? Or was it just too big of a let down that no one wants to touch it now?

7) this location is nothing like the way you think about Cleveland or Chicago.
I belie e it remains to be found but I think it will be difficult to assess the final spot given there has been physical change to its surroundings.
Edit: also, Im really getting a strong Simon and Garfunkle vibe…7th avenue whores…a juggler by her trade…ya gotta lok for a park on 7th street.

I’ve seen the first dig site…before the trees were cut. There are several big visual clues in that area, and I still think it could be sitting right where the first dig took place. My other theory also has many visual clues from the illustration.
Here is my theory about the first dig. Many people concentrated their thoughts on how much the trees have grown over the years…one thing I don’t think they took into consideration, as they only went to a depth of 2 ft or so (I believe) is the topsoil accumulation. The problem is that the site that was excavated is at the bottom of a large embankment separating the lake from the city above. There is an erosion problem with the lake, but the problem with the excavation is just the opposite…there would be quite an addition of topsoil to that area over the last 20 years from rainwater wash coming down that embankment. I propose that they were very possibly in the right spot, but they didn’t dig deep enough to clear away the foot and a half or more of topsoil accumulation that occurred since BP buried the casque.
I wouldn’t doubt that if it is in that spot, it’s packed in hard clay by now and probably busted up by a tree root… Again I still have reservations about it being in that spot compared to the other finds which were not “in the woods” but then again, if you look at Ill. 10 there isn’t much to go on except what look like a bunch of trees or nature made things in a cape. The Grand 200 seems like a more reasonable location, or an area like that with concrete and/or monuments nearby…although the first dig location has a lot of stunning visual clues, I have reservations and still lean towards my statue theory as there are 3 or 4 monuments in that little park and also stunning visual combinations with the illustration.

decibalnyc, it could very well be in the spot we dug, only deeper. The tree roots were just impossible given the tools we had and our desire to avoid killing the tree.
…which is a cottonwood, BTW, not a birch. There’s no mistaking one for the other.
I believe it remains to be found, since the area has remained relatively undisturbed since 1981, but I have no idea where.

decibalnyc,
I too believe that the casque is still buried.
Even though I found a “G” carved on a tree along the sidewalk,
I still think that BP took us in a circle and ended up closer
to the oval track near the Grand Staircase…because of the
4-trunk tree pictured under the cloak of the juggler.
That would have put you near a more secluded wooded area
in which to dig unobserved.
But…The similarity of the pose of the juggler to the pose of
Solomon Juneau is intriguing.
AP

Once again….if it’s too much of a reach, you may reconsider. Solutions, or possible solutions appear to be so evident once you lock into them.

Just spitballing again but this is something that crossed my mind while walking up to lake park. Perhaps the harpsichord reference stands alone from the silently playing. When I looked at “silently playing” and “step on nature” I took silently playing as GOLF. It is a sport that is playing quietly or silently? And it is what you see as you step into (a part of) Lake Park? I really do wish my comments here would be approved by whomever the mod is. I respect the posters like Egg and others who’ve been here for a decade bit I wish my voice could be heard as well.

Cedarburg resident here, new to joining the fun

True, but the book itself says that every casque is buried no more than 3 to 3.5 feet underground.

Could this verse be for Montreal
Line 1The 3 stories of Mitchell is the building stated by Fenix that is across from the Salvation Army building. There is a photo of building on the 12treasures Shh podcast facebook page
Byron Priess clues for line 2 is “The beating of the world” – pull up an English dictionary and look somewhere around “drum” to find the name of a person.
Mitchell Builiding is on Drummond Street. as stated by Fenix. drum =beating. world in French =mond. thus Drummond
The Mitchell building is one block away from the Legeater Hotel (Mount Stephen)
Three who lived three. You would move toward Mount Royal Park on Drummond.
First you pass Boulevard de Maisoneuve named for the founder of Montreal Paul Chomedey de Maisonneuve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Maisonneuve_Boulevard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_de_C … aisonneuve
Then you pass Dr Penfield St. Wilder Penfield was a DR who taught at McGIll University which is a few block away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilder_Penfield
Next is the Sir Willam Osler promenade. Another Montreal Doctor who was associated with McGIll also.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Osler
At a distance in space from woman playing harpsichord is next line
The Montreal Museum of Fine art on 1308 Sherbrooke is two blocks away. In there art collection on display is a painting of a Woman playing a harpsichord by Emanuel de witte. A virginal is an instrument in the Harpsichord family.
https://curiator.com/art/emanuel-de-wit … a-virginal
https://www.mbam.qc.ca/en/collections/? … etail-8709
If you go up the stairs at the end of promenade William osler and then go two blocks away from Museum of fine arts. you are on the corner of Mount Royal Park
Here is the serpentine. From google maps is appears there is several set of stairs and a culvert running through it
Anyone in Montreal can take a walk along the Serpentine trail
Are there any birch trees in Mt Royal park
There is also the Circel Stone in the park.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/1440+ … 73.5757489
Is this the letter letter from the country of wonderstone hearth?

I’m still interested in the Plankington rotunda consisting of exactly 92 stairs, located at the 200 block of Grand (Wisconsin Ave) in the Shops of Grand Avenue (opened in 1982). Climbing these 92 steps, however, doesnt seem to take you anywhere except in a circle around a wishing well fountain full of copper pennies and a sculpture of John Pilkington. Travelling in a circle, or focusing on a topic of coins, or the name Pilkington, which is also the name of a not too distant street might be involved in some grander scheme. Whatever the case may be, there always seems to be a trail that quickly grows cold. I dont envy the searchers who have hiked every square inch of the ravines in Lake Park. Surely they’d be better off in the downtown blocks where they can sit and drink a pint.

erexere

I’m still interested in the Plankington rotunda consisting of exactly 92 stairs, located at the 200 block of Grand (Wisconsin Ave) in the Shops of Grand Avenue (opened in 1982). Climbing these 92 steps, however, doesnt seem to take you anywhere except in a circle around a wishing well fountain full of copper pennies and a sculpture of John Pilkington. Travelling in a circle, or focusing on a topic of coins, or the name Pilkington, which is also the name of a not too distant street might be involved in some grander scheme. Whatever the case may be, there always seems to be a trail that quickly grows cold. I dont envy the searchers who have hiked every square inch of the ravines in Lake Park. Surely they’d be better off in the downtown blocks where they can sit and drink a pint.

LOL, I logged a lot of miles in Lake Park, and all through the ravines. It is one of those kind of parks that probably would take several visits to cover all the territory.

gManTexas

I believe the Grand 200 refers to the Bicentennial Trail (aka 76 bike trail), which is now called the Oak Leaf Trail, in and around Milwaukee.
http://envirohistory.uwgb.org/Oak_Leaf_Trail

This! Great clue gMan….

I can appreciate some of the notions that tie into exploring Lake Park or the North Point Light, or the bridge lions or the Wolcott memorial, but at the end of the day, nothing seems quite right from a dwarfy point of view.
I think of the juggler as a performer and collector. These dwarves are teasing us with some kind of strange riddle about collectible objects and some something about wealth given the intro of “three stories of Mitchell” the Milwaukee banker. The question is, where would they feel is the proudest place to watch over or visit their precious amethyst?

erexere

I can appreciate some of the notions that tie into exploring Lake Park or the North Point Light, or the bridge lions or the Wolcott memorial, but at the end of the day, nothing seems quite right from a dwarfy point of view.
I think of the juggler as a performer and collector. These dwarves are teasing us with some kind of strange riddle about collectible objects and some something about wealth given the intro of “three stories of Mitchell” the Milwaukee banker. The question is, where would they feel is the proudest place to watch over or visit their precious amethyst?

Huh?
If there is a Dwarf theme going on, I think it would be that you have to go over land and through trees and ravines, over and under bridges to get to the casque site.

That depends on whether you’re doing it for a pocket full of trinkets or getting sidetracked by a cute woman.
Robusti vs rotunda…

erexere

That depends on whether you’re doing it for a pocket full of trinkets or getting sidetracked by a cute woman.
Robusti vs rotunda…

Hahaha!

“Ascend the 92 steps”
“After climbing the grand 200”
“If you go up the stairs….”
How many steps in the staircase, from the promenade to Pine Ave, are there?

There is a grand staircase. I seen some Montreal tourist sights that say it is 339 steps. The stairway looks new. I wonder if it was rebuilt in the past 30 years

You know I get an odd word play sort of idea about the term rotunda… It reminds me of the word tundra possibly a anagram even which might be workable as a strange Snow White connection.
O TUNDRA = ROTUNDA

More steps were added in 2017
https://www.lemontroyal.qc.ca/en/whats- … e-opened-2

and this might the letter from wonderstone hearth
http://www.michel-translation.com/en/_M … ed_hr.jpeg
It is located at the top of stairs at the Mount Royal Chalet

Yup….just found a tourist brochure indicating the 339 steps leading up to Mt Royal Chalet and the Belvédère Kondiaronk lookout. 86 steps added….253 steps before that. If you’re on to something, you’re blowing a ton of Milwaukee proposals out of the water…. 😉
http://montreal2.qc.ca/rep_parcs/media/documents/application/pdf_doc_carte_mont_royal_anglais_rv_lr_id44.pdf
Personally…I say that the steps don’t add up, for Montreal.
(Lake Park’s Grand Staircase doesn’t have exactly 200 steps right now, either. So, there’s nothing that precisely ties ‘Grand 200’ to that particular ‘Grand Staircase’, either. But….it used to have a promenade at the bottom of the existing staircase, with additional steps leading down towards the beach. All of that was removed to make way for Lincoln Memorial Drive, loooong ago. I haven’t seen and haven’t been able to find info about how many steps were removed from that portion of the staircase
or
if those extra steps / promenade allowed it to be referred to as ‘the Grand 200’ in the late 1800’s, early 1900’s. Soooo….I can’t, without a doubt, say that particular line in the verse
isn’t
refering to some other staircase. However, the stairs that still exist number 92. Therefore, imho, those two lines are referring to Lake Park’s staircase….closest match, so far…in my opinion.)

Mister EZ

Yup….just found a tourist brochure indicating the 339 steps leading up to Mt Royal Chalet and the Belvédère Kondiaronk lookout. 86 steps added….253 steps before that. If you’re on to something, you’re blowing a ton of Milwaukee proposals out of the water…. 😉
http://montreal2.qc.ca/rep_parcs/media/documents/application/pdf_doc_carte_mont_royal_anglais_rv_lr_id44.pdf
Personally…I say that the steps don’t add up, for Montreal.
(Lake Park’s Grand Staircase doesn’t have exactly 200 steps right now, either. So, there’s nothing that precisely ties ‘Grand 200’ to that particular ‘Grand Staircase’, either. But….it used to have a promenade at the bottom of the existing staircase, with additional steps leading down towards the beach. All of that was removed to make way for Lincoln Memorial Drive, loooong ago. I haven’t seen and haven’t been able to find info about how many steps were removed from that portion of the staircase
or
if those extra steps / promenade allowed it to be referred to as ‘the Grand 200’ in the late 1800’s, early 1900’s. Soooo….I can’t, without a doubt, say that particular line in the verse
isn’t
refering to some other staircase. However, the stairs that still exist number 92. Therefore, imho, those two lines are referring to Lake Park’s staircase….closest match, so far…in my opinion.)

I believe the Grand 200 refers to the Bicentennial Trail (aka 76 bike trail), which is now called the Oak Leaf Trail, in and around Milwaukee.
http://envirohistory.uwgb.org/Oak_Leaf_Trail

erexere

You know I get an odd word play sort of idea about the term rotunda… It reminds me of the word tundra possibly a anagram even which might be workable as a strange Snow White connection.
O TUNDRA = ROTUNDA

This makes no sense at all.

Quite possibly, that’s it. 76 Bike Trail, named in 1976, year of the Bicentennial.
Although a potion of it is at the bottom of the stairs, running North along LMD, the trail’s not exactly a steep slope throughout the center of Lake Park, itself. After ascending the 92 steps to get to the bistro, the park is fairly level up there (except for the ravines)….not much climbing, if any, to do on the trail, in the park.
But…it’s possible that’s what it refers to….

It only make sense if an anagram is an applicable building block, the dwarven theme draws from a well known Grimm tale, the definition of tundra incorporating the “snow white” idea, and whether the rotunda of Plankington was Byron’s target for some purpose which is currently unclear….so yeah, I take that back, it makes no sense.
I think we’re talking about paying tribute to the Brothers Grimm here.

slappybuns

could you tell me if the girl scout tree is on the backside of the staircase?

there are 2 girl scout trees.  One is at the top of what we are calling ravine 2.  And the other is at the bottom of what we are calling parking lot ravine.  We call it parking lot ravine because it starts from the parking lot that is at the top of the grand staircase.  The bottom of PLR comes out near the soccer field which is between the bottom of ravine 1 and the grand staircase.  I’m not sure that I agree with your logic SB but I like where you are going with this.  I also believe that the spot we are looking for is nearer the grand staircase.  If you start at the GS and then walk over the golf course to the head of ravine 1, walk down R1 to LMD and then back to the GS you have traveled in a big circle.  And as there is a circle in the image, I believe that this is the correct path for us to follow.  As to where we go from there, I am not sure.  This line of reasoning puts the girl scout tree at the bottom of PLR into play but the problem with that is it doesn’t look anything like the tree which is formed by the bend in her cloak(of course, it is only an assumption that that tree is the proud tall fifth.)  Also, I searched from the bottom of R1 to the GS and didn’t find anything that looked like that tree.  At the moment I am leaning toward what is number 11 on your interactive Lake Park map, the American War Mother’s Plaque.  This would take you past the GS again going back the way you came.  I like this because if you read the plaque it says that the memorial is some trees (not sure what kind).

hi digger, i was thinking those were columns instead of trees in the dress, aren’t there columns at the very top of the staircase?. i was thinking maybe going back down and  around the staircase to be under the columns. but really something about the shape of that cloak around her shoulders reminds me of the circular part in the staircase. it just seemed you were all so close to finding it, it is there somewhere. and i remember reading about one of the solves and how the the brick in the picture behind the jewel , matched perfectly with the brick at the site.
and her cloak just seemed like circular part of the stairs. hopefully you know the area.

digger7, somehow a tree doesn’t seem to me a permanent thing, something you could trust to be there forever. street names and plaques and monuments seem more likely.  you have an apt name for a treasure hunter

slappybuns

digger7, somehow a tree doesn’t seem to me a permanent thing, something you could trust to be there forever. street names and plaques and monuments seem more likely.  you have an apt name for a treasure hunter

Well… as I said a few posts back, BP didn’t expect this hunt to go on forever.  He thought all the casques would be found in a few months or a year.  He didn’t bury these casques with a 20- or 30-year horizon in mind.
In the Cleveland solve, street names
did
change, tossing one clue from the image right out.
As for the Milwaukee solve, I’m a big fan of the fallen birch near the women’s tees on the golf course.  It fits the verse and the image better than any other.  Problem is, without that tree still standing, that casque could be in an area way too big to dig up… unless wilhouse can trek up north and dig it out with his earth mover.

i have no sure thing, just thought i’d post what came to mind after reading this thread b4 i confused it with another verse. because i’m wondering now if those lion bridges (pride) are the columns i see.

forest_blight, i’m using the interactive map at Lake Park Friends site for guidance. the compass could just mean that area, boundary or curve or forming a circle. looking at the circular part of the staircase reminds me of her cloak. maybe it means just circle around the staircase..  it seemed  to fit if the birch at the first of the verse meant “wood”, then “to the first young brch” could mean “newberry”.  and newberry would be on the backside of the grand staircase wouldn’t it? but then there is more to the verse. could you tell me if the girl scout tree is on the backside of the staircase?

At a distance in space
Herbert Hall Turner suggested the term Parsec (pc) in 1913.  It measures the parallax distance of 1 second.
Astronomical Units (AU) also measure distance in space.
Standard Candles are another alternative where Distance is a factor of brightness.
All of these might seem like obscure jargon, but I’ll speculate that something might connect to one of these.  Au is the periodic table abbr. for Gold (aurum) which might offer another possibility.  Turner Hall at 1034 N. 4th St. in Milwaukee is on the NRHP.  The Turners were a German gymnastics organization.  Perhaps the woman juggling is an interpretation of this.  I have nothing in the way of a candle motif.  Turner Hall is my favorite of the bunch.

A reminder, my narrated walking tour from this summer:
http://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/lakepark.htm
Oak Leaf Trail = step on nature?

You take excellent photos.
The ‘G’ you mentioned commonly found on lamp posts fascinates me.  I’ve been holding onto the idea that the letter G is a symbolic of a circular arrow, as in turn counter-clockwise.  Given how hard it is to determine where to begin on a path of sorts, I find it unlikely that a routine ‘G’ would be of any use to filling a gap between the steps of this puzzle.  Alas, we are still walking in circles with this one.

I included the “G” because of a theory we used to throw around. The “wonderstone” is the pic’s jewel, so “the country of wonderstone’s hearth” means “home of this pic’s jewel,” a.k.a.
G
ermany.

Was there ever any certainty about the 92 steps?  My guess is that’s about how many steps the North Point Light Station has.  It’s about 75 feet tall, 92 steps seems about right.  Anyone have verification?
Ahh, I found it the second time around with Search.  So that is the exact count of steps for the Grand Stair and connecting steps ascending into the Lake Park.

Has anyone considered the Greek connection that a letter from the country might be LAMBDA?
I’m thinking it might be a clue about an eatery specializing in serving GYROS, the Greek word for “spin”, and a sandwich made with lamb meat.
I have a fair amount of consideration for a theme about things involved with turning:  a key turns, a millstone turns, the Turner organization in Milwaukee, a woman with face turned, juggling in a circular motion might be considered turning, a kitchen mixer turns, water flowing down a drain (culvert) turns.
Pyrophillite, the Greek word for wonderstone, hmm.
It just occured to me that the foot of a culvert might be describing the bank of a river.  Perhaps the line is a cryptic reference to the kind of bank that is a financial institution.

HI Jambone.  First, thanks so much for the wonderful pictures.  They are really lovely – you must have a good camera!
Well, I agree that outside of the Mitchell 3-story building on Commerce Street and Grand Avenue, nothing else seems to fit, except possibly the African-American Museum.  It’s hard to tell without seeing the place -but these pictures are really good.  Guess it’s back to the drawing board for this one.  Thanks again.

Based upon some things posted in the “What is the treasure?” thread regarding Verse 8 and Dallas’ Fair Park, I went there this morning and took some pictures.  They can be viewed here:
http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.j … nn_speed=1
It was a beautiful, albeit cold, morning in Dallas.  I took about 50 pics of the park, starting at the entrance by the Vietnam Veteran’s Memorial, and ending up at the far end of the lagoon.  I didn’t go up to the live stock barns, the midway (not open), or over to the Starplex amphitheater (it’s newer than the hunt).  I went up and down the esplanade, the Hall of State, African American Museum, the Music Hall, the Museum of Natural History, the Science Building, the Grand Ave entrance, the lagoon, and a few other places.  Unfortunately, I didn’t see any statues, murals, reliefs, etc. of a woman with a harpsichord.
I also didn’t see a compass or compass rose anywhere.  I didn’t find this until after the fact, but there is a compass rose graphic on the Dallas Museum of Natural History web site.  I didn’t walk the entire perimeter of the building, but I didn’t see a compass rose anywhere.
Mitchell and Grand are nice ties between Dallas and this verse.  And the African American Museum at Fair Park might be a good fit for the theme of immigration.
Here a couple of obstacles to overcome to strengthen the case for this verse tying to Dallas, and Fair Park in particular:  (1) I didin’t see anything that could have 92 steps, much less 200 more (if that’s what the “grand 200” are), with the exception of the Cotton Bowl stadium (inside) and it is closed except for games and concerts.  The whole area is very flat.  (2) I didn’t see any bridges with a culvert.  The only bridge I saw was a very small one at one end of the lagoon.
Hope this information helps.  If you think I missed something, or would like me to get more detail of a particular spot, let me know and I’ll see about making another trip over there.

The more I think about the Kenwood theory (“As you walk the beating of the world”), the more I like it. It’s just like BP to insert some clever wordplay. I can just imagine him thinking “I’m on Kenwood, now how can I work that into a riddle…?” and thinking of Kenwood beaters. It fits really well. This verse is full of wordplay and riddle, quite unlike Verse 4.
But “…of the world”? That’s an odd turn of phrase, isn’t it? It’s Kenwood Boulevard, so I thought maybe “Boulevard” is French for “blah blah of the world.” No such luck (it means “bulwark” or “bastion”).
I think my memory is fading. Consider this part of the verse:
Below the bridge
Walk 100 paces
Southeast over rock and soil
To the first young birch
Wouldn’t that put us back on Lincoln Memorial Drive beside the tree where we dug, making that the
first
tree and not the
fifth
?
Pass three, staying west
Perhaps this means to head NE, staying on the
west
side of LMD, until we come to the fifth big tree? I have a feeling pinetree or someone already suggested this, but I don’t remember.

Im not ready to sign off on mitchell hall.  I still want to keep options open and call it mitchell something.  Why would Preiss use Mitchell, if not to cast confusion about which Mitchell, the Hall or the historic street or the historic home?  I love the beating = Kenwood idea, and though it follows the Mitchell reference it still could be a setup to create an overwhelming sense of proximity that gets us stuck in nearby Lake Park as a result.  From a viewpoint that some sleight of hand might be at work here, i want to extract words and ideas as basic pointers.
Three comes up twice.  Is there a connection to 3rd street?  Third ward? Juneau, Marquette, Kilbourne?
Mitchell, a person, a hall, a street, a neighborhood?
Kenwood, a beater, a street?
World, a street?
2nd, second as a distance in time, a street?
12th, 12 months in year, a lightyear as a distance in space, a street?
Lincoln, cast in copper, a street, highway?
Lake Park, grand stair…definitely.
North Point, pass the compass, a light house, a neighborhood?
The image contains cityhall, locust, and what looks like  a lake feature.  Cityhall is an iconic image, locust is a street, the lake hood is still a mystery to me.  The cape is caught by wind, wind lake road?

We had a bit of a thaw, and much of the snow melted.
So I took advantage of the weather and drove down
to the lakefront on Saturday Jan 12th.
I am still convinced that the tree with the “G” carved
into it, is
THE
tree.  I took pictures of the “G”
again…and touched the carving of it…felt the depth
of the cut….It also seemed to have a straight line
underneath it…as if it were underlined.
Since the manager of Lake Park said that the stone wall
was constructed in the mid to late 80’s, I still think
that the “box” was entombed in the material which
filled in behind the stone wall.
(This summer, I removed every loose rock from the
top of the walled in area…only to find a solid,
impenetrable mass of rock-like material…which I
took to be man-made…as it conformed to the space.)
It is also possible that the box was found by a workman.
Until proven otherwise, I believe that the location was
indeed found…and will have to take satisfaction in that.
AP

The 92 steps of the staircases at the Plankington Arcade on Wisconsin (formerly known as Grand Ave.) is the key to this puzzle.
If three lines of the poem fit that one spot, the wishing well, the number of steps, and Grand Ave., that puts a lot of importance on that location.  Following the instructions to climb the stairs means you have just traveled in a circular path (flattened) and now you’re wondering WTF did Preiss want me to walk in circle?  The next line “pass the compass and reach” fits, since a compass is a tool used to draw a circle.  I propose that the circle of stairs is the “locus” of a larger circle.  The question then is what determins the radius of that larger circle?  How about the tangent of Locust Ave?  Next question, where’s a good place to bury a casque near wherever that large circle passes?  How about a spot near 200 degrees?
Some other random thoughts,
From woman, with harpsichord
From woman = child, born to play harpsichord
Maybe this fits some of the speculation that there’s a “helmet” connection to many of these puzzles.  A “secrete” was a form of skullcap helmet and this is the first time I ever heard of a
caul
while reading about Polish wunderkind “Walter” Valentino Liberace, who was a child prodigy pianist who’s first regular paying job was at the Plankington Hotel’s Red Room, the site of the circle of stairs. Does the cowl worn by the woman in image 10 act as a clue to consider a child known to be born with a “caul”, meaning they will be lucky or successful?  I found a citation from a book published in 2000.  Would be nice to see the citation that book used.  Was there a famous interview around 1980 where Liberace spoke of his birth story?  I have to wonder if Liberace’s importance to this puzzle is simply to connect his middle name Valentino with the name of the fantasy fiction character Lord Valentine, the juggler,
Lord Valentine’s Castle was published by Bantam Books Publishing in 1980, it won the
Locus
Award in 1981.
“The locus of a point moving at a fixed distance from a center point is a circle”.
The word “locus” is found in the word “locust”.
This is making me dizzy.

forest_blight

Can we assume that the
three who lived there
are Downer, Hackett, and Shepard? There is a Summit Ave. between Hackett and Shepard, but it evidently wasn’t named after a person. I will do what I can to find out who Marietta was. The information was available to BP in 1982, so it shouldn’t be impossible to find today.

I agree Forest Blight. Downer, Hackett and Shepard are our
three
. Verse 8 is taking us on a
tour
from Mitchell Hall to the dig spot and these three streets are step two in the tour.
As we walk the beating of the world
should be Kenwood Blvd. Kenwood was the premeir audio component manufacturer and very
popular
in the 70s and 80s. But once we are walking on Kenwood we need a direction and the steps to take to get us to Lake Park.
From three who lived there
should be Downer, Hackett, and Shepard. After we pass Shepard we find ourselves at Marietta Ave.
At a distance in space
From woman, with harpsichord
Silently playing
Marietta Ave. is likely the “
woman, with harsichord
”. “
Marietta Robusti Tintoretto
(also known as La Tintoretto) was born in 1560 in Venice. Her father was a famous Venetian artist who ran the Tintoretto studios… Marietta was also a trained singer and harpsichord player, having been privately tutored by Neapolitan Giulio Zacchino. She often played and sang for her father while he worked.”
Marietta Robusti’s (alias
La Tintoretta
,1580 ca.), with a harpsichord and a score to make evident her musical activity.
Link
to more history on Marietta.
I doubt the street is named for Marietta Robusti. This is just a way to provide a reference to Marietta Ave.
That gets us to one block from the park and hands off to the next verse line
Step on nature
.
A side note. On Marrieta Ave. a couple blocks to the north of Kenwood Blvd you will find the Hefter Conference Center formally known as the Marietta House. The name was changed in 1989.

Sonoran – your Marietta theory is good. But why would Kenwood be
the beating of the world
? And why would he skip Summit?

forest_blight

Sonoran – your Marietta theory is good. But why would Kenwood be
the beating of the world
? And why would he skip Summit?

I think the reference here is that Kenwood was a leading worldwide provider in audio (
beating
) and speaker systems in 1982. To date myself, I remember friends bragging in high school when they got a new set of Kenwood speakers. Usually that meant months of saving up from jobs for their cutting edge components. Later, JVC, Pioneer, and others came along to compete. But in 1982 Kenwood had an established history in the American consciousness of being number one.
Good question on skipping Summit Ave. Although it is only one street between the
three who lived there
, I wonder if BP considered adding another verse line to cover Summit; but that line ended up cut from the final version.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to the see cut verse lines from BP’s revision process? Much like deleted scenes in a DVD today we could buy a solution book with deleted verse lines.
Something like:
At a distance in matter
From height below

Unknown

Unknown:
Marietta Ave. is likely the “woman, with harsichord”. “Marietta Robusti Tintoretto (also known as La Tintoretto) was born in 1560 in Venice. Her father was a famous Venetian artist who ran the Tintoretto studios… Marietta was also a trained singer and harpsichord player, having been privately tutored by Neapolitan Giulio Zacchino. She often played and sang for her father while he worked.”
Marietta Robusti’s (alias La Tintoretta,1580 ca.), with a harpsichord and a score to make evident her musical activity.
Link to more history on Marietta.
I doubt the street is named for Marietta Robusti. This is just a way to provide a reference to Marietta Ave.

Sonoran
–Nice research!  Its quite possible. We have never been able to figure this part of the verse out.  From my own research, Marietta St. was named after a relative of Clarence Shepard (I cannot remember if it was his wife or his sister).  Clarence Shepard owned the land from Hartford St to Kenwood St and from Downer St. to water’s edge at the Lake at one time.

Unknown

Unknown:
Ena Xor
The next morning when I checked the comments on TCWAF, imagine my horror when I read AP’s
comment about Washington, California.  I was sure AP had figured it out also.
http://gustwintig.com/

the map,IDK i just remember seeing one,hell 6yrs,my mem is prob
bad and it was not your map LOL
the pics at the history walk,would be nice if it went by decade,1900
1960,70,80 ect.
O/T is this you,close no cigar
Ladies and gentlemen, Junior Deducers, sleuth-fans, and lovers of justice:
The Twelve has been found

Yes,the 12 has been found.
I was on the right track…but did not
take the steps needed to possess it.
It seems I am always “close”…but
never “there”

Oh AP, I’m so sorry! Eventually you will unearth the Milwaukee casque, I am certain.

WR, that’s really cool and playful work.  I hope that insight finds the right place to turn cheese into wine.  If you can do it you might as well have fun doing it.
That line does look juicier than the others.  Letter and Heart … epistolary novel?  Aphra Behn?.

fox

One concern I have with the 92 steps equalling the Grand 200 is just that.
“Ascend the 92 steps
After climbing the grand 200″
you are to go up the 92 steps AFTER the “grand” 200.  are there 200 more steps you can ascend before the 92?  just confused.

There’s 95 steps, which has led to several questions which I won’t bother reviewing because it’s my belief that the question that we should be asking is only this, “Why are we not told to ascend the last three steps?”
In the strictest sense we stop three steps short of the top of the Grand Staircase.  What do we do next?  We turn around and climb [down] the Grand “2C” shaped stairs and resume our journey south and “pass the compass and reach”, which I believe to mean the tall water tower in North Point Park.  I’ve been thinking the “foot of the culvert” means the edge or bank of a waterway as a transition to an actual Bank building but I find that to be erroneous since the “foot” of something refers to it’s base or the bottom.  The bottom or lowest point of “the culvert” is our clue but we are not sure what waterway is in reference.  I’m going to make a leap to consider it’s the “bottom of the ocean” and “below the bridge” is in reference to a ship named the Abraham Lincoln.  I’m looking at 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea.  Below the bridge of the Abram Lincoln is the Nautilus of Capt. Nemo.
The first lines of this verse are good clues to consider the distance unit called a “league”, the distance a person walks in about an hour.  As you walk = a league, “the beating of the world” = Nemo’s fight with civilization.  I’m basically reinterpreting the line that has been thought to lead to Kenwood Blvd.
I the verse uses the repetition of lines “at a distance in…time/space” to mean “two leagues”, or some distance about 6 miles from Mitchell Hall.

Oh no, I’ve just killed my old theory.  I’m not sure where this goes yet, but I think it’s still close to Kosy Park at about 5.5 miles by ruler and something greater than 6 miles by driving.
If we start at Mitchell Hall, meander around the entrance of Lake Park and then onto Lincoln Memorial Drive, it’s possible to continue on south to Exit 3, Port of Milwaukee, which puts you nearly directly onto Lincoln Ave.

Here’s a nice article about a climb having to do with 200,000 tons of material salvaged from a Chicago building demo to be used as the stone in the building the Basilica of St. Josaphat,
http://onmilwaukee.com/visitors/article … tml?page=1
200,000 = a grand 200, or 1000 x 200.

rookhunter

Does anyone have these pics?
I noticed some of these older ones are starting to disappear. I don’t mind storing pics in my personal hard drives or we could make a community Flickr account, I hear they give a TB now.

Much, or even all, of varin’s pictures are still available using the Internet Archive “Wayback Machine” (archive.org).

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/56 … good-times
Here are some photos of a tree which is to the West of the multi-trunk
tree (which is pictured under the cape in image 10.)
In my opinion, the multi-trunk tree is a “clincher” to prove the link of
image 10 to Lake Park in Milwaukee.  If you look through the “V” of
the multi-trunk tree, you can see the “D” tree in the distance.
That said, there is a stump of an older tree between the D-tree and
the multi-trunk tree.  Who knows what
that
tree looked like,
or when it fell?
Either tree would have been out-of-the-way for BP to be able to dig
unnoticed, especially at night.
When the snow melts, I will again ask permission to search in that area.

UHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEARTH ALSO MEANS HOME!!!!!!!! HOME HOME HOME!!!!!!!!!  don’t forget about that.  So basically,
YOU’LL SEE A LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY OF WONDERSTONE’S HOME!!!!!!!!  WONDERSTONE IS MENTIONED IN THE BOOK IN REFERENCE TO THE AMETHYST…  SO YOU’LL SEE A LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY OF AMETHYST’S HOME!!!!!! AMETHYST’S HOME IS GERMANY!!!!!!!!!
Hope that clears up the confusion!!!!!!!!!!
PHEW…
-regulus

emerald is green, peridot is green.  We already have solved 100% of the months/flowers/birthstones and matched them to their correct picture.
So I don’t think there is any use going over the stones.  Unless it’s about Milwaukee, but it’s got to be an amethyst.  Two balls, February Flower.
February=2.
-regulus

You know, Fox, for someone who supposedly “values” new ideas and thoughts, you’ve been remarkably resistant to Typler’s. You welcome other posters, yet you seem to want to refute everything he says.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with our being related—I’ve kept my mouth shut on this Milwaukee “solution” since I first read it on these boards, and I’ve read every post on the threads. However, I’m not sure this solution is valid EITHER, and not only because the casque wasn’t found. I find a great deal of difficulty with the idea that this “wonderstone’s hearth” is Germany. Or that the stone is an amethyst. Yes, I know it’s significant of February, and the number 2–but why on earth would the stone be pictured as blue, and not purple/lavender, as nearly everyone in the entire cosmos associates with amethyst? I’ve never seen a blue one ever.
I don’t think it makes a lot of difference where it comes from, frankly–and yet it seems to be an issue that it remains exactly as one or two people have declared it to be–and godsforbid anyone refutes any part of this.
I was told when I first came on this forum that it was fairly cliqueish that way, but I refused to take anyone else’s word for it until I discovered for myself how things were. I have to say, I probably should have heeded the early warnings. At times, this forum feels like the “domain” of a few older posters–despite what anyone else wants to post or think–and that puts me off in a big way.
It makes it difficult to brainstorm.
It makes it difficult to introduce new thoughts.
It makes it difficult for anyone who isn’t “favored” to feel welcome.
Right or wrong isn’t the point here. Re-thinking old ideas isn’t the point either. It’s a feeling that you simply better not refute some of the older ideas that have taken root, because you just won’t be welcome to do so–and frankly, I find that off-putting.
Perhaps you feel that the Milwaukee solution is correct, but I hate to hammer the point home again–
a casque was not found
. So EITHER, the solution is incorrect, or it dissolved into the earth. What’s wrong with going over the old ideas with new eyes and trying to find a chink in the concrete?
It’s made me reluctant to continue posting at all.

shecrab

This has nothing whatsoever to do with our being related—I’ve kept my mouth shut on this Milwaukee “solution” since I first read it on these boards, and I’ve read every post on the threads. However, I’m not sure this solution is valid EITHER, and not only because the casque wasn’t found. I find a great deal of difficulty with the idea that this “wonderstone’s hearth” is Germany. Or that the stone is an amethyst. Yes, I know it’s significant of February, and the number 2–but why on earth would the stone be pictured as blue, and not purple/lavender, as nearly everyone in the entire cosmos associates with amethyst? I’ve never seen a blue one ever.

shecrab

I don’t think it makes a lot of difference where it comes from, frankly–and yet it seems to be an issue that it remains exactly as one or two people have declared it to be–and godsforbid anyone refutes any part of this.

As you say, it is not a “solution” until a casque is unearthed. But the purpose of this forum is to exchange and debate ideas. When two competing ideas occur, it makes sense for us to debate which explanation makes the most sense and is the most parsimonious. For example, two competing ideas might be A: “the gem in P10 is an amethyst” and B: “the gem in P10 is not an amethyst.” We have to consider the full body of evidence in favor of (and against) each hypothesis.
I believe that there is a remarkable amount of evidence in favor of the amethyst theory. Beyond simply conforming nicely to the country/birthmonth/stone/flower theme, consider what it would mean were it
not
an amethyst. 11 of the jewels would be birthstones that conform exactly to the theme …except for the one in P10. Why would JJP/BP do that deliberately? It makes no sense to have (e.g.) two sapphires when everything else conforms to the theme. When something clicks that well, you have to give it a certain amount of credence.
Why does it appear to be blue? I think you see this as deadly to the amethyst theory, but I don’t. I don’t believe it is a big stretch for what looks purple on a painting to translate poorly into an illustration in a mass-produced paperback (is purple really all that different from blue?). Colors in books often simply do not look like they do in person, if we were staring at the actual painting. It is much easier for me to believe that the coloring in the book is not 100% faithful to the original painting than it is for me to believe that one jewel violates a complex theme that makes perfect sense for all the other images.
Personally, I consider the “wonderstone’s hearth = Germany” idea speculative. It’s appealing, certainly, but far from definite. I don’t think I or anyone else meant to shoot down the proposal that it could mean something else, but of the many interpretations that have surfaced, it still makes the most sense to me that “wonderstone” refers to a jewel in a book that is all about hunting fairy jewels. “Wonderstone” is an apt way to describe such a thing. It could very well be a literal reference to a fireplace made out of wonderstone (rhyolite), but it seems to me that BP is trying to be cryptic and poetic here. It is a riddle, after all.
I don’t want to squelch new ideas. But I think it’s fair to suggest that the new ideas have to lead somewhere if they are going to be useful. If you favor a particular idea, see where it takes you, share what you find, and we’ll debate it until the weaknesses are uncovered. It will either lead somewhere useful or it won’t.
BTW, is it mainly the wonderstone and amethyst theories that you disagree with, or is it the broader claim that the P10 casque is in Milwaukee?

forest_blight

“Wonderstone” is an apt way to describe such a thing. It could very well be a literal reference to a fireplace made out of wonderstone (rhyolite), but it seems to me that BP is trying to be cryptic and poetic here. It is a riddle, after all.

Just as ‘mica’ refers to sand.
The main arguement that I see that is being touted as a ‘Con’ against current ‘theories’
(not just Milwaulkee) is that – (a) the debated location has too much errosion for BP to select
or   (b) since it is too difficult for us to retrieve it from there, it
would have been too difficult for BP to bury it in the first place.
I find both of those counter arguements to hold less weight than throwing a dart at a map
and digging at the random location.

Unknown

Unknown:
the debated location has too much errosion for BP to select

This might actually be a problem if Roanoke holds a casque – the shore is receding at an alarming rate there. But it isn’t an issue at Milwaukee’s Lake park. We have photos from way back that show pretty much the same landscape you see today. Unless he buried it on the beach, it’s probably still there.

Following up on a previous issue, a paragraph on p. 30 reads:
With these original emigrés went the Fair People’s treasure: the
wonderstones
of their
Litany
, encased and protected in treasure casques fashioned by the Nordic Elves. These too would be hidden from the eyes of Man.

Good morning from a snowy Milwaukee!
Since we are experiencing a heat wave…6 degrees above freezing when I was out…
I decided to take a quick look at Lake Park in its totally “winterized” state…no leaves,
no color…to distract from or hide the tree trunks.
I took along my trusty camera and got a lot of shots of the woods along LMD.
Just to whet your appetite, until I can prepare the photos for display on Webshots,
I will say that I found a tree with a very unmistakable capital “D”. (Deutschland?)
more later
AP

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a casque is in Milwaukee.  And it seems a fair assumption, based on 75% of the evidence to claim that it is in Lake Park; But there are two things that “rock the boat” by themselves, and obviously need no help if all I have to do is Mention them Foxy Brown: First, that the view of the Milwaukee Courthouse in the painting is from Behind it, in a 3/4 profile of sorts.  And second, that the stone, while implied to be an amethyst by elimination, is bright blue– not bluish, or even light bluish-purple, but blue.  And I can tell you from my experience in print-making that no color printer in history has ever had a problem making the color purple, or its variants.  Not one.  You ask why BP might have made one deliberately different?  I don’t know, it wouldn’t be the only one would it?  The NYC one supposedly has ONE WTC tower, The Roanoke Island Knight has his finger sticking out past the frame, and several paintings have no clocks… Seems like the ‘formula’ has more variables than constants…

ok, now even i am confused. are you just trying to rock the boat now? there is NO dispute on what jewels are in each picture BECAUSE of each picture’s reference to a specific birth month. why is this even being brought up? just when i thought it was safe to read these threads……..

Unknown

Unknown:
First, that the view of the Milwaukee Courthouse in the painting is from Behind it, in a 3/4 profile of sorts.

Unknown

Unknown:
And second, that the stone, while implied to be an amethyst by elimination, is bright blue– not bluish, or even light bluish-purple, but blue.  And I can tell you from my experience in print-making that no color printer in history has ever had a problem making the color purple, or its variants.  Not one.

Unknown

Unknown:
You ask why BP might have made one deliberately different?  I don’t know, it wouldn’t be the only one would it?  The NYC one supposedly has ONE WTC tower, The Roanoke Island Knight has his finger sticking out past the frame, and several paintings have no clocks… Seems like the ‘formula’ has more variables than constants…

I guess I see the Milwaukee City Hall as a city confirmer, much like Chicago’s Water Tower or Cleveland’s Terminal Tower. Viewing perspective was irrelevant for those, so why not for City Hall?
Is the Mona Lisa’s sky green or brown?
Why is the finger outside the frame problematic?
Of the paintings that DO have clocks, they all conform exactly to the birth month/stone/flower theme. Of the paintings that DON’T have clocks, there is still some prominent numerical indicator of the month (number of red balls = 2, Roman numeral = 10, number of columns = 7, number of asters = 9, number of warts = 5, prominent triangle = 3 sides). The only one I had difficulty with is P11, but the number of gold bands on the globe stand = 8.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear
: I was pointing out that there were elements in every painting that are not shared by the others, the birthstone indicators being one of them; not that they aren’t indicated, just not in the same way.
Maybe the two solves don’t matter because those particular landmarks are ‘Towers;’ in other words, they look like tall pointy spires no matter which angle you view them from, at least in silhouette.  I am not figuring in the little buildings at the bottoms, just the immediately recognizable parts, which for most people was the Tower bit… Milwaukee City Hall only looks like a tower from the front, because of an optical illusion, which they put on their street signs and such…
As for eleven, you could narrow that down to August by the Peridot, if not the fact that all of the others are confirmed. Incidentally, Lake Park DOES have a serious erosion problem, because anyone who read up on the lighthouse knows it was moved because of it… When it’s front yard fell into the lake.  All 75 statues, monuments, fountains and whatever else are undergoing a 50 billion dollar proposed refurbishment… Also, someone mentioned retaining walls, which are most likely there for the same reason.
I mention the jewels because according to the Litany and other parts of the text, they matter to the solution.

i just feel that discussions are being started on things that do not need discussing. yes, amethysts do range in colors from purples to reds to blues. but why argue this? the other items in this image clearly represent February. yes, that is the back of city hall. so what. the cleveland tower was upside down, should egg have dug in the sky? it was simply a city confirmer, nothing more nothing less. i dont discount things klbt brings up because he isn’t one of the so called old timers. i just think we are focusing on things that are unnecessary, which i believe ties directly into his not wanting to read past threads. lets get our minds back into this hunt and find another casque.

The book clearly states that the Litany is important to the solution.  If you are searching for a spot of earth that is approximately one foot square and only three to three and a half feet deep, it helps to be fairly exact.  I am only “arguing” against proposed exactness where none exists.  Lake Park is roughly 1.10 miles long by .80 miles across, with a whopping total of ONE landmark to determine the treasure’s location.  Possibly two or three if you count those bridges.  Out of everyone who has ACTUALLY dug in Milwaukee, there are only four spots where the treasure is NOT (until more people say where they have dug).  That is also spanning a timeframe of about 25 years, and nearly 9000 separate ideas about the hunt in general.  To date, Two casques have been recovered, with another one being impossible to dig up because of the presumption that it is beneath a wall.  The casks are hidden by riddles in which a LARGE amount of poetic license was used to write them, and paintings depicting one or two historic landmarks or noticeable features.  You may say “so what?” about the view from behind, but a reasonable observer might conclude that it is important to the location of the cask, if we are in agreement that the paintings “show” you where it is (albeit vaguely).  If I am not mistaken, you, Fox, were the one who first suggested Margaret Mitchell as the Mitchell referenced in the verse…  What was it that made you change your mind?  Was it because you went down to Georgia and dug?  Or was it because there was so much other evidence for Milwaukee?  Maybe Both? I will reiterate this for general benefit– I am assessing ALL possibilities based on FACTS ALONE.  Deductive, rather than inductive reasoning, you might say.  My reasoning is that it IS in Lake Park because the blue glowing part of the person’s Hood in the painting is a very nearly exact match for the shape, but mirrored.

AP,
would the lion bridge be the 5th bridge? shecrab  mentioned there being 5 bridges and that’s the only thing I can find that lake park has a “5”with.
maybe it’s just the 5th bridge at the southern foot, like shecrab  said.
sorry to keep bugging you

Slappy,
I keep trying to make the verse be able to fit that idea.
When it warms up, (when the ice has melted enough
that I can use the Ravine trails) I will be looking around
the bases of the bridges for “a letter” and for a distinctive
tree to be the verifying markers…
(as well as looking at the D-tree area.)
If the casque is still buried, it will be found.
AP

forest_blight

For example,
“Cast in copper”
may not refer to a copper statue, but rather to a pool where one might toss in pennies. Who knows?

This was my first impression, cast in copper as meaning made with copper didn’t come to me until after I looked at the verse for a while.  So, step on nature (walk on grass?) cast in copper (pitch a penny) etc.  I was wondering if the beating of the world could mean waves on a beach.  After all, waves pounding the shore is a common expression.  Also, there is a third compass, (first being a magnetic pointer and the second being a device to draw circles) which is an indicator of north on a map.  If you do walk along the shore to the grand staircase, you would then have to ascend the stairs, rather than go down them.
So, start at the hall, walk to the beach, walk to the stairs, in a nutshell.  Ascend the stairs into the park, then the clues get too detailed for internet map checking.  And keep in mind that he did this without the internet so if it seems too easy now, it’s just the way time has affected us.  Of course I could be 100% wrong – I haven’t been there to look yet and it’s been years since I’ve been to Milwaukee.
But don’t go looking for anything until I can get there to scope things out.  You guys don’t really want this casque anyway.

Unknown

Unknown:
Are you sure both the seeds and the leaves go with our trees? It looks more like cottonwood to me:

Unknown

Unknown:
It bothers me a little bit that the tall proud 5th is right along the main street….hard to bury something there w/out being seen by passing motorists.  How busy is that street?

No I’m not sure.  But most of the dead leaves in the area looked like this.  I thought that they looked like cottonwood also and not birch.  I did not see any birches, save two, in the park and they were white paper birches.  One really young birch by itself on Ravine Drive just right (north) of the Grand Stairway and the other one on the golf course.  That’s it–I did not see any down in the ravines or in other areas of the park.  I’ve thought of three things:
(1)  I think FB mentioned this before–Maybe only the first tree is a birch as described in the verse, and the others are not as they are not really identified as birches in the verse and we’ve just been interpreting it that way.  Which I will concede that what I have labeled as the first young [birch] is not really that tree.  It is possible that another tree existed in this copse that was a birch, but is no longer there and I have the first tree in the pix labeled wrong.
(2) The word
birch
may be a synonym for the word
tree
.  We may be taking this all to literal and we should be thinking more poetically.  Where lighthouse is compass, and beating of the world is temple, and cast in copper is Lincoln memorial Dr…
(3) BP didn’t know his trees that well.
Yeah, me too– but its actually not as busy as you think during certain hours, especially in the evening hours (especially in winter–HA!).  Plus once you know where it is, you don’t have to take the long route,  there is easy off street parking right there.  I believe it could be done without much interuption.  Being by a tree, I doubt that its buried that deep (I hope its not).  My treasure hunting buddy and I both paced it off from under the bridge–she being shorter than me–I don’t care who takes the 100 paces, that grassy area is where you end up and those are the only trees around.  It met the verse head on and is as close as we could imagine the physical surrounding could match the verse.  Even the 100 paces did not leave you guessing.  It could be wrong, but it feels right–its worth putting a shovel in it, I think.
The three things that we could not fit with the verse were..  Harpsichord lady, what is 200, and the birches.