this wouldn’t have to be a trick, you could use mirrors.
mira chimera (on the wall)—winged spanish hadas
reflection
all that is in the image
i used the computer because i didn’t have a big enough mirror
you don’t think that looks like the cask ck?

i think it is showing the cask when you put the two pieces of the little island or reflected rock together
i went with the angle of the rock up to the gem on the regular image and the mirrored image
and, if you use the clouds as part of the fountain, it is looking like that fountain again, because it seems to have those step ups:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobindrums/1675488811/

(Slappy’s images)

thank you whiterabbit!!
the first one is the cars, from bottom of the paper go up about 3 1/4 inches, you’ll see this lighter octagon ( almost)  shape, and a matchbox car will be one on left of fold and one on right side, right above the lighter spot. also, doesn’t the outside shape look like that fountain? and if you fold it in half (where those dark edges start, it will look even more like that fountain.
the next one looks like the cask to me, it’s flipped upside down, the next picture is the cask right side up
doesn’t that look like the cask to you guys??
here’s the chicago cask:
http://kspot.org/trove/ct_080983a.jpg

Whoaaaaaaa Nellie…..wait a darn minute. This can’t be. No matter what happens when you mirror these images, remember one thing: these were PAINTINGS. Made individually, without any knowledge of where the casque was. There was no digital manipulation, no trickery. Preiss gave JPP photographs of objects for him to “insert” into his paintings, and also gave him a general theme. There’s no way they could have been created with these little tricks. Had they been created on the ‘puter, this might have been a factor, but they weren’t.

Hey guys! I’m new to this site and I’m really new to the secret. I’ve read TONS of what you guys have said online about all of the verses and pictures. You all have either confirmed or crushed many of my hunches I had before I realized there was probably a group online dedicated to cracking this case. About V9 and P6… I live in Gainesville, FL so St. Augustine is a day trip to me (not even two hours away). Clearwater would be as well. My wife and I are planning a trip to St. Augestine soon as we are both almost done for the semester. If anyone has anything they want me to look into or document while I’m there, just let me know. I have to be honest about the whole Fountain of Youth idea. I am left nearly speechless by all of the evidence. I mean, you guys have pretty much sold me, except for the fact that this is private land. Even Kit Williams was sure to hide his golden bunny somewhere where someone would receive little or no flack for digging. I realize that it was probably easier to get away with this back in 1982, but I still think that hiding it on private land was risky then. Perhaps it is possible that it is hidden nearby and that the clues left un-deciphered explain where. I’m going to be looking into this. When I first looked at P6 I was convinced that it was directing me to Florida. As for which conquistador it was depicting, I was unsure. I considered Ponce de Leon a little to obvious, so I looked into Hernando de Soto. Both lead me to different parts of Florida, both equally distant/close to me. When I started looking at Ponce De Leon, I first thought about Flagler College as a possible site. It used to be the Ponce de Leon Hotel, so I thought that perhaps that fit. This idea hasn’t left me entirely, but I feel that the SELOY clue hidden in V9 is nearly inescapable.

Welcome, cobock1! My only advice is to be careful with the management at the FOY park. Some of our members have built up a relationship with them, and requests or attempts to dig may damage future chances.

Here is a much better shot of the fountain:
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1463580330063331622kwfRAY

Unknown

Unknown:
FB, you are convinced the site is there somewhere, by the planetarium?

I’m pretty certain, but ya never know for sure ’til you dig up a flowerpot.

OK, so that fountain used to be at FOY and was relocated?  I missed something.
And the
rain falls
was right by the Planetarium.  OK.
FB, you are convinced the site is there somewhere, by the planetarium?
We are going to need three teams down there. (i know, i know. Quietly)

just the top part of the fountain got moved. The fountain is located between the green picket fence and the entrance to the planetarium. See first picture of Beautiful Fountain/garden area.
http://www.sunandseabeachweddings.com/F … youth.html

It would be so wonderful if that fountain had a sign or plaque of some sort that mentioned years passing…

See, you just made me think of something, there was a sundial mounted on a pedestal between the springhouse and the globe…had the saying about..grow old with me..the best is yet to be..same as at the giftshop.

Yee Haw, this is getting fun.
We need a map.

Pine_Tree

Yee Haw, this is getting fun.
We need a map.

It is still going to be at the ‘base’ of a ‘tall tree’
I wish they would preserve me when I get moved

Ya know, these pics Stercox took are excellent, but like she said,
you have to go to the park to get the real deal.  Same with Sawdusty’s
memory, brilliant, and if a few more brains (and hands) could get down there,
hash it out, then my my….
Maybe the green fence that got blown away is the key.  It was by the goose pen right, Sawdusty?
If it wrapped around the back of the planetarium, and to the Globe,(eons and eons
passing), then the “rain” falls, at the “base” of a tall tree can be the X.
Wondering, did the goose pen have water?  Sprinkler?  Just outside the pen behind the fence.
Standpipe, firehose, a well.  Fountain?  Anything that could rain water down on the geese?  I can see BP safely digging there.

If you walk out of the planetarium and walk out to the fountain of the girl/boy with umbrella, behind that is the green picket fence then the little road to the exit and beyond that is a hugh stand of bamboo. So…..
Over the tall grass (bamboo)
Years pass, rain falls (youthful fountain with umbrella) Sounds good to me anyway!
No fence back behind the goose pen, fence was down by the water and up to the gift shop through the trees. Dont know how they watered the geese, There was no water source or pond behind the Planetarium, just a pen. That will be on my list of questions for the ower after he gets done with spring vacation. Other fence is in front of planetarium. Sure wish all of you could come down here and walk this out. Got the pictures back and they are on the way to Stercox. You can never have too many pictures.

Thanks SD.  You clarified alot for me.  I was looking for some kind of water fixture after looking at the Chicago find pic by Loph.  A fence and a fixture.  Take a look.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1152 … 2872spwhMX

Since most of us can’t make it to FOY, another option might be to take enough photos for me to create 360º images of certain areas.
If you’d like to try it just stand in one spot and, keeping the camera level, take a photo, turn slightly to the right making sure that part of the image overlaps the previous image, take another photo, and repeat until you return to the original image (take that one again, just in case).  You should end up with 12 to 20 photos for each panorama.  Use a low resolution (640X480 is fine).  Email them to me and I’ll put it all together.
I know that seems like a lot of work, but it would really give the rest of us a better feel for the area.  Single photos are fine, but I always wonder what is behind the photographer.
Here are some examples —
http://users.crocker.com/~bclews/

Here is Stercox’s photo from the planetarium looking at the
Umbrella Fountain….
and see the picket fence.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27 … 0493tXsKEY
Is it brown or green or has it chnaged?

In Stercox’s photo of the umbrella fountain, that is original green picket fence!

Unknown

Unknown:
That list accounts for EVERY remaining casque out there.  Let’s just put our heads together  and focus on the obvious.

Fox said:
I have tried. I posted several things about v. 2 and New Orleans lately. They have gotten absolutely not one single response.

forest_blight

The real definition of “casque” is a helmet – the kind that goes with a suit of armor. Only in FOY and in
The Secret
– and nowhere else – has the word casque been used to describe a container.

“The Cask of Amontillado” (sometimes spelled “The Casque of Amontillado”) is a short story, written by Edgar Allan Poe and first published in November 1846.  Refers to a container of wine if i remember correctly.  Haven’t read it since high school.  Also, if you look up “casque” in some dictionaries, it says “see also cask” which is a container.
Now back to treasure hunting!!!

slappybuns

i remember someone said that the last two lines went to a poem titled “To the Lighthouse”.  has anyone probed around the lighthouse on anastasia island? the image has an island also.
i like the idea of “stars move by day” as in a flag  also, like sonoran said (but i believe in FOY park) . in the image the gem is under the flagpole.

In the image, the jewel is in the stone-face/rock wall.
I believe that “like moonlight in tears drops” perfectly describes the
wall embedded with thousands of tear dropped shaped shiny sea shells.
This type of specific spot is both behind a green fence and beneath bending branches.

i remember someone said that the last two lines went to a poem titled “To the Lighthouse”.  has anyone probed around the lighthouse on anastasia island? the image has an island also.
i like the idea of “stars move by day” as in a flag  also, like sonoran said (but i believe in FOY park) . in the image the gem is under the flagpole.

You can still hear the honking,
could the first part of this line be taken as “you aren’t totally deaf, just hard of hearing,” and the word “honking” be taken as “horn”?

erexere

You can still hear the honking,
could the first part of this line be taken as “you aren’t totally deaf, just hard of hearing,” and the word “honking” be taken as “horn”?

sure or cars or geese or a musical instrument

Maybe its a clue for “hearing” as in “public hearing” or a trial hearing which may be a way of referencing H.M.Roberts for his Rules of Order. This could potentially work for me in San Juan Island where his name is on the plaque on the large boulder.

I’m not trying to digress into how BP would need to know everything. I think it’s really more important to attempt a Fair Folk POV and pick up a path that doesn’t require tons of outside knowledge, but does utilize what’s REALLY pertaining to that locality. Doesn’t P4 look somewhat tombish? The date on the left 1441 and the date on the right 1881 suggest a 440 year time span. Perhaps the particular fair folk who laid their casque in Cleveland came to the new world around that date of 1441. For the purpose of their GIFT to Man that’s good, they left a clue in the number 1881, because 1) Preiss found it easy to connect to a nearby and truly remarkable landmark for a President and 2) it offered a repetition of LAT/LONG primary digits.
The Terminal Tower is amazing and grand, we see it’s outline in P4.
The Garfield Memorial is also amazing and grand, we only have the date of its occupant in P4,
If the fairies liked the Terminal Tower, I don’t see why they couldn’t like the Garfield Memorial as well. Like I said, the casque is roughly between these two iconic towering structures. My point isn’t to say it was necessary to recognize these locations. I’m just trying to interpret the simple language of illustration and verse as it’s communicating a perspective shaped by what the Fair Folk would find interesting. The whole Cleveland location seems to have a “Between/Beneath two things” kind of feel: columns, poet urns, Terminal Tower and Garfield Memorial. The Terminal Tower is a amazing and tall piece of architecture. I think the Fair Folk appreciated its architectural greatness. It’s sort of a bittersweet reminder to the wars perpetrated by the White man that they then focus on the Garfield Memorial. I wonder if this is meant to be a trend? Maybe we’ll continue to find a thing of Goodness first, and then a reminder of our savagery second?
Now Keats, we should be wondering more about this young poet and why he comes into the picture just two lines into the verse.
I almost feel that the name of a book should be expected, but the acrostic gives us either 10 random letters followed by SELOY or it gives us 15 meaningful letters indicating someone named SELBY said “to northwest Washington”. If the Fair Folk utilized James Garfield (1831-1881), a major political figure who was a Major General in the U.S. Army, then it might be within reach for them to utilize a lesser known war veteran, William S. Harney (1800-1889) and especially if its intended to be a more difficult jewel to find.

Correction on Keats’ birth year, its 1795, not 1793.

Some things I forgot to mention:
According to Sawdusty, there were probably other trees in the branches/fence area which have gotten knocked down by hurricanes over the years.  The owner probably has pictures, but he cannot locate them.  So, the treasure could be located anywhere in that area.
Also, most of the trees, including the big one in the “looking straight ahead” pic, are magnolia trees.  I would describe them as “big” or “gigantic” or “grand” or “large,” but I would not really think of them as “tall,” which is what the verse describes.  Yes, they are tall, but they are also wide.  I think of palm trees as “tall,” but there were no palms in the branches/fence area still standing.  There is one very tall pine tree in the entire park, which is located on the other side of the green picket fence.  If you are standing in the branches/fence area looking left, you would need to look further left and over the fence to see it.  I guess it is possible that “behind the fence” could have 2 meanings, depending upon where you are standing.  So, the pine tree could also be considered to be behind the bending branches and behind the fence.  I probed there also (there is a small tree growing next to it which prevents probing completely around the tree), but found nothing.  Also, the pine tree is right near the guardhouse.  If it is at the pine tree, then I think Pine Tree should find it!
If you also noticed, I took a picture of the small marker and palm tree so it looks like the one in the book.  The palm tree itself is surrounded by brush, and there has been a lot of erosion and filling-in along that entire area.  The place where you have to stand to take the picture of the marker and tree is almost in the water, at the far end of the park.
Sawdusty pointed out some other things in Image 6 that are more references to the park, and she also has her own theory on where the treasure is, but I will let her tell you those things if she chooses to do so.
Yes, I tasted the water (even brought a bottle of it back home).  It has a bad sulfur taste — I hope it was worth it!

I’m back from St. Augustine.  It was a lot of fun, but no treasure found.  Stercox has already taken pictures of nearly every inch of the park, so I did not want to duplicate them.  So, I uploaded some new pics at:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/armchair_treasure_hunting/files/St.%20Augustine/
I could not have done it without Sawdusty.  She and her family were invaluable, and filled with information.  We were not allowed to dig, but we did probe around.  I can see why it has been so difficult to understand where things are in the park.  There is no order to anything — buildings, statues, and fountains are located haphazardly around the park.  So, with that in mind, I will try and just pick a few spots to describe (see pics above), and will answer any questions that anyone may have.
There is a portion of the park that is my pick as to where the treasure is.  You will see in the pics labeled “looking at branches/fence corner” a green picket fence (painted on other side) perpendicular to the outside wall of the park.  It is only 1 of 2 such fences in the park.  The other fence is far away.  Running along the outside of the wall are the bending branches of Magnolia Avenue.  So, how can the treasure be behind both the branches and the fence? (“Behind bending branches and a green picket fence”)  I believe that the verse is referring to the corner area which is both behind the wall
and
behind the fence.  If you stand in the corner, and look toward the general area between the wall and the fence, you see a big tree right in front of you.  There are 2 pics of this.  I probed, but found nothing.  You will see the planetarium behind the tree (where the men with wind rose are), and the Discovery Theater to the left of it.
If you stand in the corner and look to the right (there is a pic of this), about 50 feet away is where the goose pen was.  So, it appears that you would be in sight of the pen, which is not good if you believe that you need to be out of sight of it but still hear it.  However, Sawdusty informed me that the duck pen, which is farther away, is where the geese stayed during the day, and the goose pen is where the geese were put at night.  So, if BP thought that the geese lived in the duck pen, then this corner would be out of sight of them, but you could still hear them.
If you stand in the corner and look slightly to the left (there is a pic of this), you will see the Discovery Theater and the fountain (which used to have the kids under the umbrella).  About 20 feet beyond the fountain is a sundial, which has now been moved but is still in the park — it says Grow Old With Me etc.
If you stand in the corner and look all the way to the left (pic of this), there is an area on the other side of the fence which used to be a lookout post for a guard 25 years ago.  So, it may have been very tricky for BP to have buried this within earshot of the guard, and would have to have dug when the guard made his rounds.
I also took some interesting pics of the small marker and palm tree, the Seloy marker and palm tree, and a flat rock which Sawdusty believes is in Image 6.  It is late, and I am tired, so I will post more info later.
But it was fun!

You know I went earlier this year. and the clues really seem to fit the area. but
I just really have trouble with him planting a casque in a paid admission park, obviously on private property.
I just cant see him doing that without at least noting something about it in the verse.
ie. the one where he said Ask permission. by default you would think then none of the others needed permission because they are on public land.
shoot, if a private land owner (as is the FOY) discovered that an author had without permission buried “treasure” on his property
and people were coming without permission to search for it.
He would have every right to sue the author and publisher. BP would have been smarter then that.
I just dont see it being at the FOY for that reason.
It has to be nearby though.

I agree that it’s uncomfortable, maltedfalcon, but p. 219 does not exclude private property:
The following places do
not
hold any treasure:
(a) any life-threatening location, such as a dangerous highway embankment, a contaminated area or active railway track
(b) any cemetery
(c) any public or private flower bed
(d) any property owned by the contributors to the book, their families or friends.
If BP meant to exclude all private property he surely would not have singled out (d). It is almost as if he is saying, “sure, some of the casques are on private property, but not
my
private property.”

I really like your theory, Eg. The corner fits the clues (and he buried the Chicago casque in a similar corner near a fence).
You would be in sight of the goose pen… except there’s a tree right there blocking your view. So even if you couldn’t see them (there’s a tree in the way), you could still hear the honking. So regardless of where the geese were, it’s a good theory.
Did you taste the water?

Egbert

Yes, I tasted the water (even brought a bottle of it back home).  It has a bad sulfur taste — I hope it was worth it!

Oh boy!  Just ask Stercox and Sawdusty what happened to them when they drank the water.  Shocking!!!

Here’s an interesting one from a 1920 book:
Fountain of Youth, Simon, Mother Goose, Haystack…
what?
Is this just proof you can connect whatever you want nowadays?

Haystack Rock?

erexere

Haystack Rock?

[Head explodes] Yes… at Cannon Beach.

slappybuns

why isn’t anyone looking across the bay? he used acrostic for seloy, why not the first of the verse, TWN W BAAY,  is there a light house there? i was thinking of someone’s reference to virginiia wolf’s play.  maybe he was looking across from the bay to the park.  maybe the “tree” is a lamp post. LAMP anagrams to PALM

… Lit by palmlight …

Here’s where I am with my updated interpretation of Verse 9 for St. Augustine
The first chapter
– Florida’s human history
Written in water
– Ponce de Leon arrival in 1513
Near men
– Conquistadors
With wind rose
– Castillo de San Marcos
Behind bending branches
– Arrows shot from bows
And a green picket fence
– Cubo line
At the base of a tall tree
– Great Cross of St. Augustine
You can still hear the honking
– Sound from Canon Firing
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
– Coquina building material
Stars move by day
– FOY Planetarium
Sails pass by night
– Ships in the River and Tributaries
Even in darkness
– 24 hours a day
Like moonlight in teardrops
– Reflections of light in falling water
Over the tall grass
– Spanish moss hanging from trees
Years pass, rain falls.
– Outer FOY Entrance Sign, Water Wheel’s falling water.

MrBackstop

Anybody dug much in the Castillo de San Marcos? Thoughts?

There’s a whole lot of nothing at the fort park as far as landmarks go, aside from the fort and the sea walls…
Digging inside the fort would be downright impossible

burnstyle

There’s a whole lot of nothing at the fort park as far as landmarks go, aside from the fort and the sea walls…
Digging inside the fort would be downright impossible

I can see why you might say it would be impossible but my family and I have visited many National Parks and you’d be surprised how alone you can be sometimes.
In Muir woods outside SF we went all over the place to explore and take great pics with no Rangers around. We visited Fort Sumter in Charleston and once we got inside the Fort walls we were alone except for other tourists. I’m just wondering if Byron was on the outer edges of the seawall at Castillo de San Marcos and took advantage of the sand, the angles of the Fort, and nighttime, ….to be able to quickly bury the chest.

Egbert

There is a portion of the park that is my pick as to where the treasure is.  You will see in the pics labeled “looking at branches/fence corner” a green picket fence (painted on other side) perpendicular to the outside wall of the park. Running along the outside of the wall are the bending branches of Magnolia Avenue.  So, how can the treasure be behind both the branches and the fence?

The first chapter
Written in water
Near men
With wind rose
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
I think the answer is that we need to cross to the other side of the wall. “The first chapter” is at the entrance. This is the exit. Here it is from the other side.
We’re now back in Magnolia Ave which runs alongside FOY.
I think the white rock in the image represents the section of coastline seen above.
Note the rock has a tree next to it which goes down to the ocean. The rock-shape has Magnolia Ave next to it, which goes down towards Ocean Ave.
At the base of a tall tree
The next line directs us down to the bottom of Magnolia Ave, where we find this cannon.
Could this be the location?
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
I think this is a cannon reference. There are cannon shells. Some cannon balls were made of limestone, and there’s also a type of rock called “cannonball limestone” resembling the kind of rock we see in image 6.
“Silver salt” – there are various silver salts that are either explosive or used in making explosives; eg silver nitride.
Like moonlight in teardrops
This is a repetition of the silver salt idea:
Like moonlight – silver
In teardrops – salt
Wondered if this could be one of the adjacent pillars.

i really like that shape for the rock in water in the image being the shape of the land, and ponce de leon is right there by that shape, and you could still hear the honking from the parking lot, it’s straght up from the parking lot
oops, i was looking at the howard johnson’s parking lot or something from google earth, at the base of magnolia street, keep going to the water, and there is ponce de leon
http://www.marcraft.net/blog/?p=1025
i like that browning poem there too for years pass……….

fox

For example, here is one of mannnnny pics of FOY found on Flickr with sea oats a plenty.  Also in this pic is one tall tree.
http://flickr.com/photos/23948039@N02/2338364333/

Also in the pic is a couple piles of rocks

I will be at the Fountain of Youth park on Sunday, August 5.  I would love to meet anyone who may be in the area.
I have tried to email Sawdusty, but have not been able to get in touch with her.  Perhaps Stercox or someone else knows of a way?  I don’t think the owners would allow me to probe the soil without some prior permission!

Egbert-
When you are at FOY, can you confirm my interpretation of the last part of the verse…..
“Like moonlight in teardrops”
The coquia wall along Magnolia Street.
Specially just inside of the exit lane.
If the wall here does look like silver moon beams
of tear drops (all of the tiny individual shells) then
it fits that:
it is behind the green fence
it is underneath bedning branches
it is above tall grass
it is made up of shells, limestone, silver, salt
It would also fit the general theme of the image,
being imbeded in a rock face.
Take a walk and let us know how it looks in person.
(And of course, let us know how the water tastes.)

And take a camera!!

Verse 9
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
This line is very interesting from a chemistry perspective.
Seashells are made of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)
Limestone is primarily Calcium Carbonate
Silver (Ag)
Salt is typically Sodium Chloride, but “salt” in the broader sense is the cation/anion result of an acid/base neutralization.  CaCO3 is a salt.
As far as what the two might have in common as an application, silver may be treated for tarnish by applying calcium carbonate in solution or paste.  That reminds me, I use to polish my fishing lures with toothpaste.
I’m still not completely sure of the object of this line of verse.  I thought at one time it best described nacre such as the silvery mother of pearl shell of abalone:
I picked up a book from the 70’s on the history of Roche Harbor (Afoot and Afloat in San Juan Islands was another book I researched) and read that the limeworks started in 1881 there produced 1500 barrels of lime a day, the largest producer west of the Mississippi. More about it’s history
here
Should the line be designed to capture the sense of “think of a pretty kind of sea shell”, or the word “limestone” be a narrowing clue, the strong central source for the commodities abalone or limestone might both be used to point to San Juan Island, but only as an after thought, since both may be found in many other places as well.
An interesting connection to image 12 is the color hues of abalone may be seen in the circle filled panels.  The wiki on abalone describes the colors of the shell and it’s pearls: the iridescent nacre that lines the inside of the shell varies in color from silvery white, to pink, red and green-red, through to Haliotis iris, which shows predominantly deep blues, greens and purples.

Salt Lake City uses a directional system to name most of its streets: north, south, east, west.
The point of origin for this convention starts at Temple Square, where the Brigham Young Monument stands.  There was/is also a “Meridian Marker” which signifies this fact.  I wonder if there might be something near this point which resembles a wind or compass rose.
The BY monument also portrays an Indian and a trapper, so there certainly are “men” there.
“Stars pass by day” could definitely be the planetarium near the site, but what do people make of “Sails pass by night?”
Also, there could be some type of fountain on the grounds with an inscription relating to something in the first chapter of the Book of Mormon.

WR: “The first chapter / Written in water” is not, I would wager, taken from Shelley’s epitaph. “The first chapter” is taken directly from a sign nailed to the main gate of FOY: “The First Chapter / Our U.S. History,” while “Written in water” is a reference to the Fountain of Youth itself.

(Yep, I agree we don’t really need Shelley. Just thought I’d mention him since I like the wall and the shell connection. Thing is, you can identify phrases that were taken from the location, then you can go a step further and ask, why those particular phrases, in a no-stone-unturned kind of way.)
Brainstorming…
The flag and tree trunk are quite similar. (There’s also a slight resemblance between the flag with purple motif and the purple-headed flowers.)
Here’s a comparison without scaling.
The verse refers to a silver salt cellar. Its sign talks about casques and Ponce de Leon.
“Casque” means “helmet”, from the Spanish “Casco”.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=casque
This draws attention to Ponce’s helmet.
Now, if the tree trunk represents Magnolia Ave…
…then by analogy, we could say the flagstaff also represents Magnolia Ave…
…with elements along it which include the wall…
…the hydrant…
…and the planetarium…
Both of these stick versions of Magnolia Ave have a suggestion of the planetarium’s dome-and-awning shape at the base.

I was revisiting some of these old posts and when I looked up the FOY I saw this and it struck me as funny.
However, I noticed the palm tree in the back ground and went to look.
Has anyone considered the palm tree on Magnolia street next to the FOY park?
It is the only palm tree on the stretch of road and it is against a wall next to two trees so only one real way to dig.
Since Preiss doesn’t specify what direction to dig we have to assume it is obvious once the correct tree has been found.
The tree is not terribly tall as far as palms go but I have to wonder if Preiss used a palm tree, would it still be there? A tall tee would already be aged. Given another 30 years, chances are it’s not.
Does anyone have experience with the type of palm trees in florida?

P6 + V9.  Please see my posts from
January 22, 2005
for both the P6 and V9.  One of the links will take you to my photos of the park and some very enlightening information if you have not seen them before. There is more than just a gate sign (The First Chapter)  to validate this as a hot spot.  I am convinced that the FOY Archeological park is our site, always have been.  I have been working on this match up for nearly 2 1/2 – 3 years.  I have visited the site twice, respectfully broached the topic and was not permitted to dig and actually been told if anyone tries to dig they’ll be arrested.  OUCH!  Through a lot of interviews with park staff and historical research,  I have narrowed down the dig site to a small area.  My original thought about the clues took you out by the water–I no longer believe that, the theory has been revised.  However, the bulk of the theory is presented in my 2005 posts.    The problem has always been gaining permission to test out the theory I’ve developed over the years because of the nature of the park–It is on family-owned,  private property and historically (archeologically) significant.  Through patience and diplomacy over the last couple years along with a convincing argument (they must not have found me to be a complete lunatic), I have found out recently that I will have my best chance to see if the theory is right later this month.  The relationship with those in authority over this park is very tenuous (they may balk if too much attention is drawn to this –they do not want it to be widely known that “some treasure” could be buried at their park in order to prevent mayhem and random digging–and that is very understandable)– but they are excited about the possibility of a casque being there and are willing to help play in the dirt.  I will be down there with my treasure hunting buddy mid to late March.  I think if you look over my earlier posts from 2005 you will get a good feeling about this park, like I did.  I usually hate all the cloak-n-dagger stuff, but I do
not
feel that I am in a position to blab about this too much without putting this opportunity at risk.  However, in the spirit of this board,  I felt I should tell everyone about these recent developments.  This may be another Milwaukee–I hope it is not–the burden of proof is to find it–But whatever the outcome, I will post what I have after the trip.  Above all,  I want to keep the relationship with this park on good standing for the future.  Finally, in my search I found that in 1982 it would have been
very easy
to access the park and bury the casque.

You’re the man Stercox!!!  You’re doing the right thing.  Make us proud laddy!!!
ps: Hey, can you drink from the fountain and make yourself young again?  Let me know if it works.

I was looking for a shape in the image which might represent the cannon, and wondered if this could be it:

Hi, new to this forum and first post for me.  I believe that the Ponce De Leon (Mosquito) lighthouse is the right location….but trying to figure out where it is in relation to that.  Any one in FL want to work together on this?  Drop me an email

Howdy bigtd35, and welcome to the Q4T board.
Sorta in response to your question, but more broadly,
everyone
on this forum is working together — not just on this one, but on all of them.  There are plenty of disagreements, but the goal is to support the discovery of the casques.
So you know, this is not like ATT.  We don’t play the “I have a hunch but I’ll only share it privately….” game.  Everyone here’s pretty much wide-open with the ideas.
Have a good time.
Pine

Pine Tree-
You should emphasize, in all good fun,
that the goals is in fact to disagree,
so that all theories are thoroughly
criticed.
After the scrutiny, the answers will
emerge.
Too bad its taking over twenty years though.
We must be good at disagreeing

Trohn

We must be good at disagreeing

No we’re not!  lol

I disagree!

bigtd35 – While all ideas are scrutinized and argued against (sometimes vehemently… and mostly by me), it’s all in a “devil’s advocate” spirit to separate wheat from chaff. By the same token, all ideas are entertained, because until someone has a casque in their greedy claws, all ideas are equally correct.
The same principle underlies the practice of science, by the way. Popper and Lakatos would thoroughly approve of the way we conduct ourselves here.

In some ways this verse fit so well to FOY it was hard to look anywhere else. But that was part of the problem with the FOY solution, we were taking the verses too literal, especially when they are usually written as a riddle. Here is what we have so far, it still needs work though.
The first chapter
Written in water
This is the introduction to the verse and the area. Sand Key County Park sits at the inlet from the Gulf to the bay.
Near men
With wind rose
Sailors. There are boats everywhere here.
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
“Bending branches” are palm trees and “picket fence” is there are lots of them in rows. They whole park is lined with palm trees with them.
At the base of a tall tree
You can still hear the honking
The “tall tree” is the first mention of the dig spot. There is a prominent flag pole on the north side of the park. “The honking” may be Gulf Boulevard, which is nearby.
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Shell = beach and sand
Limestone = could be the base of the flag
Silver = is the flagpole itself
Salt = could be water nearby
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
This was the best part of solving this verse for me. “Stars move by day” is the stars on the American Flag. “Sails pass by night” is of course all those boats going in and out the inlet or along the bay.
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
“Even in darkness” means at night. “moonlight” is light or spotlight. “teardrops” is the shape you get with spotlights pointed into the sky. This is a flag that flies at all times. There are two large spotlights to light up the flag at night.
Over the tall grass
The flag is raised above the ground on a large round pedestal with steps.
Years pass, rain falls.
I’m not sure what this one means. We may need feet on the ground.
This flag is not a very popular picture on the internet. Aerial photos may hint at plaques on flag base. Does anyone live close to Clearwater? Or does anyone want an excuse to visit Clearwater?
I have visited Sand Key Park. From ground level you do get a much better feeling for the “picket fence” (as you look through consecutive rows of palms) than from the aerial photos.

Glossiphoniidae

Right behind that wall

Isn’t that private property?

I think we need more photos of this area.
I am seeing a lot of trees that have similarities to the image.
(forgive the quick choppy editing)

Yes. The motor lodge is private property. Is this a problem? Also, I’d guess there might be some stone back there (for rain dispersement), but I don’t see any concrete.

Well if it co mes down to it being San Juan Island then it makes some sense if Preiss scouted out to the Roberts Rock and then back to the camp.  The gate arch opens from the inside so he would face hopping the fence or walking all the way around to the other side wit a gap which might not have even been there back in 1981.
Hopping a fence seems like something you would do at night doesnt it?

I remember the fence-jumping anecdote, too, but I can’t find the reference. This newspaper article comes close (see the second page):
http://kspot.org/trove/ct_111682a.jpg
http://kspot.org/trove/ct_111682b1.jpg
http://kspot.org/trove/ct_111682b2.jpg

WTH, this is a well written article.  I’m shocked that he includes instructions in the event of his death that the solutions would be divulged from a pamphlet in his vault.
This really is an awesome treasure hunt.  Sad that he isn’t around anymore.  Also sad that so many folks have faded away from the pursuit.

erexere

WTH, this is a well written article.  I’m shocked that he includes instructions in the event of his death that the solutions would be divulged from a pamphlet in his vault.
This really is an awesome treasure hunt.  Sad that he isn’t around anymore.  Also sad that so many folks have faded away from the pursuit.

That just means more treasure for the rest of us.  >:(
I found that interesting too. Didn’t Egbert say that his wife knew nothing about the answers?
Perhaps his wife wasn’t the one he gave the instructions to. Perhaps a lawyer or close friend.
I bet that envelope  with the answers is just siting in some drawer, forgotten.

More on that cannon bone:
“Easily the most crucial bone in a horse’s anatomy, the cannon bone is exposed to the greatest amount of stress when a horse is being worked hard. On a horse there isn’t a very big support system around the cannon bone. The cannon bone is the large bone in the lower leg which runs from the knee down to the ankle. Its only support comes from the tendons linking it to the knee and ankle bones and a covering of skin. There are no muscles linked to the cannon bone. Hence it is crucial for the horse to have a well developed strong cannon bone to support its large frame.”
http://www.helium.com/items/617422-hors … annon-bone

I like your connection of that wall to something in the image. That’s what this one needs more of. The ones that have been found so far both had some imagery from the area depicted in some way in the painting. That way one would have more than a vague idea of where to dig once they found the place.
That wall is neat. I have stayed at that motel at least a dozen times  (and walked those ground thoroughly) and I’ve never made the connection between that wall and the conquistador’s tunic. Bravo. That could be a pretty legitimate marker.

…yep, clear visual clues seem to be lacking in most of these images. Egbert and Shadowrunner had it easy.  😉
More brainstorming on this area.
I don’t know how old that motel is, but it looks like it might have a fragment of green picket fence as well.
Turning on the spot…
From right to left, cannon, red hydrant, wall pillar.
The wall has a distinctive curving shape which is perhaps echoed in the rock and clouds of the image.
(Wondered about the base of one of the dividing pillars as another possible spot…might be worth counting them down from the main entrance perhaps. Considered the hydrant because of the fountain/rain theme. Looking down it might suggest the “monument” shape on the flag.)
By the cannon, the wall bends in and the verge opens out into this area:
Here’s the other side of that signpost shown above, with a very dodgy 20 in the flag:
I’m wondering if the place where Ponce de Leon has planted his flag might be an indicator. There’s also this pole opposite the motel…not sure exactly what it is, maybe a telegraph pole or lamp…
The cannon is still my favourite…it’s just tricky to pinpoint a location there. Maybe there’s a detail in the iron railings beside it shown above. The back of a cannon is also called a “cascabel”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascabel
(Since this is a Spanish name for a rattlesnake…also small bell / rattle /
chilies
…I was going to look for any of those hiding in the pic. I also suspect the horse is hiding something…I’m not aware it’s been accounted for yet…? Cascabel seems to be a
sleigh-bell
. Perhaps the horse’s
cannon bone
.)
BP did seem to like that salt cellar, with the repeated suggestion of “silver salt” towards the end of the verse. “Casque”, which appears on its sign, and “cascabel”, are both thought to be derived from “quassicare”, to shake.
http://roots.jrobertsons.com/roots/etym … 45533.html
http://www.travellerspoint.com/photos/s … orderByID/
There’s another etymological trail for cask/barrel, which gives us gun barrel…
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2909254
Here’s a statue of Ponce de Leon “created in New York in 1882 using bronze collected from English canons that were salvaged when the English attacked San Juan in 1792”
http://www.puertorico.com/sights/statue-ponce-de-leon/
It’s in San Juan where his tomb is, though there’s a replica in Saint Augustine (beside the
Bridge of Lions
, which takes us back to
Milwaukee
).
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=19432

trillseeker

Sorry Sonoran.  Wish you were right as I live in Clearwater.  However, the park didn’t open to the public until 1984.

Sonoran, if Thrillseeker is correct, then we are leaking oil all over the place with the “Secret Formula”.  Clever way to get everyone to do the research for ya!!
Don’t give up just yet.

Sorry Sonoran.  Wish you were right as I live in Clearwater.  However, the park didn’t open to the public until 1984.

I like this verse as a pairing with image 12.
It has the word picket in it.

Oh no. I still enjoy doing the research and scouting regardless.

Between Stercox, SawDusty and burnstyle it seems the FOY site has been heavily canvased. That being said, we live in Orlando but frequent St. Augustine. We would love to be included in any further endeavors. I would also love to know if any of the mentioned people are still active in this effort.
One item I do believe that is worth researching is the old entrance on the north side of the property. There were 8 homes built on the corner of Duffiner and Magnolia in the mid 90s that could be near the old entrance. I read a post that residents in the area were pretty much over dealing with hunters. I hope they have not ruined any future efforts.
On our next trip, we plan on attempting to find old municipal records of changes to the area. At this point, we are just trying to come up with any different ideas.

my4sonz

Between Stercox, SawDusty and burnstyle it seems the FOY site has been heavily canvased. We would love to be included in any further endeavors. I would also love to know if any of the mentioned people are still active in this effort.

my4sonz

One item I do believe that is worth researching is the old entrance on the north side of the property. I read a post that residents in the area were pretty much over dealing with hunters. I hope they have not ruined any future efforts.

Yes, they did some great work. I think many still work the puzzle(s), but not as much together on these forums anymore. It is much more separated/offline these days.
Yes, it seems like St. Augustine is going to be delicate, whoever is working that one, with both the park owner and the nearby residents. I am 3-4 hours north of there, but go through St. Aug on my way to Orlando usually a couple times/year, so I’d be glad to look as well on one of my trips.

That’s unfortunate about hunters being more separated and offline. If you are ever in the area, St Augustine or Orlando, let us know. My wife and I are both cast members at Disney.
I am hopeful about this hunt, just not optimistic.

my4sonz

That’s unfortunate about hunters being more separated and offline. If you are ever in the area, St Augustine or Orlando, let us know. My wife and I are both cast members at Disney.
I am hopeful about this hunt, just not optimistic.

Sounds good.
And I wasn’t trying to turn you off of the hunt, or this forum. Just less interaction these days. Although if you do post something (especially new) there are many that will respond. This hunt is an obsession once you let it in!
Agreed. Think several are still in the ground, but probably not as many as I’d like.

possibly also “windrows”
Main Entry: 1wind·row
Pronunciation: ‘win(d)-“rO
Function: noun
1 a : a row of hay raked up to dry before being baled or stored b : a similar row of cut vegetation (as grain) for drying
2 : a row heaped up by or as if by the wind
3 a : a long low ridge of road-making material scraped to the side of a road b : BANK, RIDGE, HEAP

here’s a stretch, there’s a Mrs. Chapone (chapter one) in Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray
wilhouse

erex: I understand you want to uncover something here, but ask yourself this question:
why?
Why would BP want the verses mixed up? What purpose would it serve, first of all, and if that were true, one might just make anything one wanted to out of the lines!
I mean, if we allow a mass reordering of the lines of the verses, then you could spell just about anything from their first letters–and that just would not be fair. Not to mention that re-ordering the lines to get the acrostic you want makes the verse say something other than what it intends. Do it in this verse, and you’d pretty much have to allow it in all the other verses–and though re-ordering the lines in this one may not actually hurt the location information, it certainly would in other verses. I strongly caution you against trying to fit the verse to your idea by chopping it up and rearranging it–from the solves we know, that’s just not how this hunt was structured.

okay, that was a slip up.  My brain siezed and I got lazy at the end of the night.  Preiss uses extreme word economy.  Lots of meaning hangs on each word.  Its almost as if everything were translated from a native american story teller.
Years pass, rain falls…some kind of heavily erroded stone or area?

Why? is the question all right.  I think the two solves so far -and I’m working to better understand them still- show us distinctly different approaches while being similar in a flexible context.  I’m not attempting to mix verses, only to mix lines in one particular verse.  The basis for my doing so is no stronger or weaker than the arguement to take an acrostic at face value.  Evidence that Preiss used American Indian material doesn’t mean he will always use it to lead us to a casque.  I’m merely doubtful on the basis that I didn’t find a conquistidor anywhere near the setting of P6.  I found a heavy custom crafted iron chain with links shaped like a conquistador’s helmet and I found a Don Quixote reference in an Associated Press article from 1979 that may work into this, but that is all.  Trust me, ther is no Ponce in this setting.  Now I have my guard up about some of the tricks Preiss has pulled from his hat.  He wants us to think Florida with P6.  He wants us to pair with V9 with SELOY.
(Edit: continued)
The artifice of the SELOY acrostic identifies with V12’s usage of single letter clues M B L and R.  Priess must’ve thought “I’ll give them this simple one-letter identifier just to warm them up for what I’ve got planned for Verse 9…hee hee,” okay maybe he didn’t hee hee, but even if he didn’t plan it, I’m just bent against the idea of SELOY for the reason that it doesn’t fit at all with the San Juan Island in Washington idea.
I asked myself, why are we just taking the SELOY letters…wouldn’t be cooler to use all the lines for the acrostic: TWNWBAAYSSSELOY.
TO NW WA SAYS SELBY = “to Northwest Washington says Selby.”  William Selby Harney sends George E. Pickett and company to Northwest Washington’s San Juan Island.  This rearrangement of the acrostic doesn’t mean we have to alter the intention of the verse.  Most of it looks one-liner-ish anyways.

erexere

I asked myself, why are we just taking the SELOY letters…wouldn’t be cooler to use all the lines for the acrostic: TWNWBAAYSSSELOY.

I think that would have been a little *too* obvious. Once it was recognized that there was an acrostic in play, one could simply look up “Seloy” in an encyclopedia and know immediately that FOY was the site, without having to combine a verse and an image, follow meticulously developed clues, etc. Burying “Seloy” amid gibberish was brilliant, the verbal equivalent of hiding the Chicago Water Tower in a painting. Insisting that every first letter contribute to the acrostic would be like insisting that every letter in a word search puzzle be part of a word. There would be no challenge anymore.

I see you’re point.  Props to the brilliance in the design of this verse too.
I wonder if anyone would ever consider “washington window” and connect it to the Selby Abbey and then spot the acrostic similarity in Seloy?

New ordering of lines to Verse 9 w/ interpretation-
The first chapter
– the first fraternity (crossover to the Boston casque)
Over the tall grass
– “over” is a clue to radio transmission protocol and the site I am considering is a field of tall grass
Near men
– men close together would point to the barracks in this setting
With wind rose
– is a radio compass
Written in water
– message in waves (supports the radio compass idea)
At the base of a tall tree
– “base” as in military outpost, a tree near it
Stars move by day
– flagpole with US flag at site
And a green picket fence
– “a green” is “GENERA-” or General Pickett
You can still hear the honking
– ?
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
– abalone
Sails pass by night
– light house
Even in darkness
– this and next two lines seem like instructions to line up a view
Like moonlight in teardrops
– something white inside a circle
Behind bending branches
– standing at a tree such that the white object is behind
Years pass, rain falls.
– erosion?
Architectural note on windows of Selby Abbey in the the town of Selby in North Yorkshire, England:  A notable feature of the Abbey is the 14th century Washington Window, featuring the heraldic arms of the ancestors of George Washington, the first president of the United States.The design is often cited as an influence for the Stars and Stripes flag.

erexere

Behind bending branches = filler text to get SELBY
Years pass, rain falls.  = more filler

*cough, splutter*
Filler? Don’t think so. There’s few enough clues in these verses already without randomly ignoring parts of them.

Just looking for windroses:
http://www.mollycarpenter.com/delawarecompassrose.html
http://starbulletin.com/1999/07/12/mill … tory8.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/safeco/im … ssrose.jpg
http://www.robinson-iron.com/pages/hechtgardens.html
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … locks.html
+ numerous other windroses mentioned but not shown in and around NY.

rereading the posts in this V and noticed many of the posts re: the wind rose (most of them by me  :-/ ) were that of the common compass rose.
as Falcon explained above…..here is a site that may be a little more helpful than others I’ve posted lol
http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/cm/africana/windrose.htm
…and a good history on the windrose can be found here:
http://www.antiquemaps.co.uk/chapter10.html

“written in water” = “fountain of youth”
Also, the last few lines to serve merely to spell out SELOY as an acrostic.

I was just taking another look at the hydrant, and I like the square-within-the circle thing with the flag…
Maybe this could be a marker for a spot beside the wall…? The picture could indicate the relative positions of the hydrant, the tree, and the “casque” (helmet/box).
…in which case, could this be the palm…?
Emailed the FOY manager earlier who’s replied to say: “Very interesting! I will check out the area. It is outside the property wall and would have been easier to access than other areas we considered.”
With strong leads, an undisturbed site, and a helpful park manager, I reckon this one offers a real chance of retrieval if we can just find the last piece of the puzzle.
* * * * *
Here’s a recap of some of the other possible visual matches also seen at this spot.
The jacket and the green picket fence…
The planetarium…
The cannon…
The bending branches…
The stone pillars…
The wall…

My first interpretation of ‘written in water’ was saying a “message in waves”, some kind of broadcast antenna?  But when I settle down and think about it normal-like I take it to mean a tale of grief.  At this point I would look for something sad or misfortunate about whichever plausible location is being referenced.  I can’t speak for FOY, but the events prior to Pickett taking residence in Washington were quite sad given that the woman he loved, Miss Sally Minge died in childbirth along with the unborn child.  Pickett moved on, married an indian woman in Washington named Morning Mist, and they had a son.  I venture to say “morning” is homonymous with “mourning”.

WR, I see what and why you make those visual comparisons but it makes me even less convinced of FOY.
I like the hydrant as an idea but more as a verse rather than image reference.  Do we have any examples of where verse and image both refer to the same specific marker?

@WR
That palm comparison is interesting… I notice in the image the palm has no reflection (unlike the rock)… You’d think something should be there

The place the verse leads me to isn’t actually at the fountain of youth, it’s at a park that was sort of across the street from the fountain of youth in the 80s, but was repurposed around 1989. Some of the park is still there, but not much.
I’m in a position within the county where I can dig without many people asking questions or bothering me about it… however, my rules are:
I will not dig without a solid reason, without having found something solid with a ground probe or gpr. I will also not dig within the proper archaeological site, though I have a friend who can.
I have read everything I can find about st Aug, and I don’t think I found the answer, this is just kind of a fun little adventure for me and my friends.
the only question I still have is, how big are the casks themselve, and how big are the boxes they were found in?

WhiteRabbit

I’d be surprised if you were allowed to dig within the grounds, though I still think it might be in Magnolia. Photos of areas inaccessible on Google are always welcome.

diggin on Magnolia it’s going to be difficult too.
since the story became popular recently, groups of people have been digging up sections on Magnolia Avenue just about every other day. The base of almost every tree has been dug up, roots have been destroyed, part of the base for one of the canons was broken, there’s been a chip in the wall, and someone broke into 21 Myrtle Avenue to dig up the yard. the holes that are dug up generally aren’t filled either, and when they are they’re sloppily filled.
the residents of Magnolia are not pleased.

ya i knew when word, got out more about this hunt, there would be probs like
trespassing, holes not filled ect:, a shame but the cats out of the bag now
def makes it much harder to look now
for those folks that are digging random holes trespassing ect. the casque and or
the jewel should you find an turn it in, really arent worth enough $$, to risk jail
or stand your ground situations, think b4 you dig

Time to market that T-shirt idea I came up with back when TCWAF was goin on. “Jail if dig!” Remember that?

I posted in the Image 11 (or verse 3 whatever) thread that before I dig anywhere around the Esplanade or really anywhere serious in Boston that it makes sense to have a criminal lawyer on retainer. I wish it wasn’t the case, but with fears the way they are these days in US cities and the way minor situations with police can escalate, it really isn’t a bad idea.

I’m really surprised that people are finally digging holes. For years it was impossible to persuade anyone to try digging anywhere. Good luck to them, I say – but guys, please be considerate, and clear up the mess.

I have a hard time believing those holes were dug by treasure hunters connected to this hunt. WhiteRabbit is correct – this isn’t exactly Masquerade.

No fox.  The Chicago and Cleveland settings are not scattered.  The clues are followed and referenced in a coherent manner.  A lot of discussion has taken place to consider how each clue works in either solve.  That same cohesiveness of elements is what I would expect all those irrefutable clues in FOY to have as well, but nobody has really been successful.  Stercox made a scetch awhile back that attempted to do that.  That was cool, but he failed to find a cask and although it remains a work in progress there still doesn’t seem to be a real assignable sense of clue identifcation and process as good or clear [in FOY] as there was in Cleveland or Chicago.  That clarity and cohesion, even in retrospect, is in essence what makes sense.  I’m not seeing anyone yet promoting the same kind of adherence to clues in FOY and so it looks no better than a park filled with possibilities in many different directions or randomness as I’ve dared to call it.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see a clear path in a framework?  FOY has undergone many developements in the last three decades which is a good reason nobody has managed a very sharp game plan to recover the casque, but even so, why aren’t we seeing something that narrows things down a little better but then becomes clearer what part of the puzzle is missing as a result of alteration?  I would think that place in the process might be better identified or at least partially so, casque or no casque we might still have that satisfying sense of retrospection, then it wouldn’t look like a random jumble of clues.
Tell you what, my theory for Stanley Park in Vancouver BC looks a lot like a tourist track all around.  Its a little simpler to consider since they are spread out a bit and there’s clear pathways.  Ive identified those as supporting clues because wach is so similar in its function as a spot defined on the map for tourist stops: the Hollow Tree, PJ memorial, Lumbermans Arch, Nine o’Clock Gun, etc.  Ultjmately they seem to make a periphery and in the “epicenter” is the giant checkerboards.  In that sense I feel its a guided, structured framework.  If FOY is trying to to that then its not yet clear how the map is being used.  Perhaps FOY is just a little higher on the difficulty scale, but I’m not even seeing how to qualify that process.  Each of its clues are mostly assigned by US rather than a firm set map on a pamphlet with specific main points.  It looks like snippets here and there only support making guesswork…is that seriously what you are satisfied with as a process?  At what point are we no longer contending with the product of Preiss’ mind and only facing three decades of change?
FB, I wondered how many people, a rough estimation, are involved with this hunt.  I suppose I can go back through these threads and start making a list of names.

erexere

Challenging ideas is nothing new.  Being really thoughtful about this puzzle is still a hurdle.

There are no hurdles
The path is straight
A one hundred meter dash.
You are looking for debris on the track
To jump over
And wind around.
On the way to the finish line
You wonder off the track
Following a litter-strewn path.
Broken Coke bottles and cigarette butts lead
To a group on a court
Playing horse.
It’s a pick-up game
But every time you take a shot
You use your legs.
You keep thinking how close this game is
To hackysack and soccer and poker and golf
And shuffleboard and bowling.
Then you turn around and ask the court why
The ball is in the bushes
And the race has stopped.

Wow, that’s evocative. Did you compose that on the spot? Pretty good.
From my perspective, there’s nothing wrong with trying to refute another’s ideas, as long as it does not turn ad hominem.
It has occurred to me more than once how much like a microcosm of science this forum is. All
conjectures and refutations
, with the occasional
paradigm-shifting
discovery that keeps us all on the treadmill. In science, progress is made mainly by attempts to disprove others’ ideas, so that only the strong, defensible ideas remain. That said, the ideas that have created a large degree of
consensus
are worth keeping around for awhile so that we can wring every drop of potential from them, exploring every nook and cranny of their implications before dismissing them. It is not only creative suggestions, but also refutations of existing ideas (plus a little serendipity), that will eventually lead to the next casque. But we can’t simply flit from idea to idea, abandoning those that have won a large degree of support over the years. We need to maintain a
hard core
of good theories while we provisionally entertain
auxiliary hypotheses
. If these auxiliary hypotheses withstand criticism, then in time they will be added to the hard core of theory.
We’ve got some hard core theories that are well-nigh irrefutable at this point. They include virtually everything connected with the Chicago and Cleveland finds, the themes of month, birthstone, birthflower, and latitudes and longitudes. Some general locations are now so obvious that it would take a mountain of evidence to contradict them (e.g., Charleston). I would argue that our energy is better spent trying to build on these solid theories. If we don’t find a casque this way, it’s because we aren’t trying hard enough.

forest_blight

Wow, that’s evocative. Did you compose that on the spot? Pretty good.

Yeah, thanks. It wan’t really meant to be mean-ly evocative… I hope it didn’t come across that way. It just seemed easier to describe how I felt using metaphor, wordplay and symbolism. No homo.

FYI, I will be at the Fountain of Youth this Sunday looking at all the “random clues,” as Erexere calls it.
I have spoken with the owner of the FoY, and he is going to make an attempt to meet me there where we can put our heads together.  Since it has been in his family for nearly 100 years, he will be able to recall how it looked in 1980, and where all of the green picket fences were.  He explained to me that there is just no way to dig without first getting permission from the city, and an archeologist present to supervise it.  Maybe next time!  I will be bringing my steel rod probe with me, though, just in case I am allowed to do that.
If anyone has any requests on what I should check out, let me know.  I think I have a pretty good idea of everything that has been posted, though.  This will be my 3rd visit to the FoY.
Erexere, while “out of the box” thinking is certainly encouraged in this forum, I think what most people do not like is that you appear to be saying that the majority’s theory is “hogwash.”  I think if you do not go that far, then everyone will be fine, and would be glad to review your “out of the box” theories.
As for the FoY, Image 6, and Verse 9, there are just too many clues in my opinion for it to be anything else.  The clincher for me is the sign that talks about shell and limestone, the silver salt cellar, and the word “casque.”  I actually think this is probably where BP got the word “casque” from, since he probably misconstrued it to mean “container,” whereas it actually means “helmet.”  If he was not at the FoY, why in the world would he call these treasure casques?
The “stars pass by day” reference is also a dead clue for a planetarium.  The first chapter on the front gate.  Magnolia Ave with large bending branches.  Green picket fences all around.  Ponce de Leon on a rock.  The outline of Florida in the Image.  Remember that Illinois was in the Chicago pic, and Ohio was in the Cleveland pic!
Etc. Etc. Etc.  Erexere, there are just too many clues pointing to the FoY.  They are not directionless.  The treasure is hidden at the base of a tall tree, behind bending branches and a green picket fence.  IMHO, the key to finding it is figuring out what the word “behind” means.  That is the key for me.

Hi Egbert –
Always great to hear from you. Good luck with FOY. Can I ask you something? People have often said that the story has nothing to do with the puzzle. I can’t see that myself, since it contains a reference to the Fountain of Youth for a start. I think the idea probably originates with a quote on the forum from when you spoke with BP and reported that the part of the book which follows the verses (the Field Guide) contains no clues. I was wondering, do you remember him saying anything which suggests we should disregard the story part of the book which precedes the verses…? What’s your personal take on it…?
Regards,
WR

Egbert

If anyone has any requests on what I should check out, let me know

Yes yes yes yes  😉
Magnolia, corner behind cannon, and beside wall other side of one of those trees, near planetarium, palm thing or whatever.

WhiteRabbit

Hi Egbert –
Always great to hear from you. Good luck with FOY. Can I ask you something? People have often said that the story has nothing to do with the puzzle. I can’t see that myself, since it contains a reference to the Fountain of Youth for a start. I think the idea probably originates with a quote on the forum from when you spoke with BP and reported that the part of the book which follows the verses (the Field Guide) contains no clues. I was wondering, do you remember him saying anything which suggests we should disregard the story part of the book which precedes the verses…? What’s your personal take on it…?
Regards,
WR

That is what BP said to me, when I asked him about the story in the beginning of the book.  He shook his head and said “No, the story will not help you find the treasures,” or something like that.  It has been a while, and I was with him all day talking.  However, even though he said that, there are too many connections to just ignore it.  His purpose in writing the book was not just to hide treasures.  He was also trying to create a mythological story for North America, and was hoping those amusing creatures would “catch on” in the back of the book.  So, the whole setup for the myth was the story at the beginning of the book.  So, my guess is that he is telling the story of where each nationality went in America, and which jewels they took with them.  So, yes, I think that mentioning the FoY by the Hadas of Iberia, means that there is a treasure hidden in that area, and it has to do with Spain.

Sir Egbert, I totally grasp all that you’ve taken trouble to explain.  I’ve found the FOY particulars to be quite convincing in their content but only enough to justify a planned Red Herring.  What you call directions are indeed directions, and yet they haven’t been strictly orientated yet, thus any direction is as good as guessing, see my point?  The planetarium s a great result, but what is th e nature of its significance?  Does it play a role like the Terminal Tower in Cleveland or does it represent the nearby Italian Fountain or is it a very close point for reference?   How does a big dome shape basically work in th is case?  Or is it the weather vane?  Lots of questions…maybe the owner will finally help address those loose ends.  My problem with people here is that there is ample room for thought experimentation and yet people haven’t demonstrated much of that sort of treatment from a truly constrained perspective.  I’ve done so in my out of the box work, that is my most recent work, which is stimulating a lot of thought.  I’m not focusing empty and negative criticism on anyone here.  I’m not calling hogwash on anyone.  I’m working very independently and the implcation is only “here is a different idea”.  While I acknowledge that I am challenging the favored theories, I am teying to be clear in asking for some evidence in peoples methodology.  I started the methodology thread for that reason.  Take a good hard look at peoples language and candid disfavor directed at me and you’ll see how poorly this forums users have treated the institution of real discussion.  My interest isnt in offending you or anyone.  I am in a position to defend a difficult perspective, I’d appreciate it if people would move beyond pettiness.  If you must lable it “out of the box” on a permanent basis, so be it, but let the discussion be fair and free from overt dismissiveness.  in the end I expect to have made many mistakes, but in that effort achieve real progress.

Good luck to you Sir Egbert. May I suggest that you take tons of pics and perhaps pictures that we just can’t get from google.
For example all along the inside edge of the shell fence, the opposite side of the planetarium and maybe even panoramic pics of certain spots in the park.

Just did a search of keywords from the verse trying to find more ties to FOY. I’m sure it’s been done a million times. I could probably tie anything to FOY if I really tried. But I figured I would share what I found anyways.
Did a search of FOY with each line of the verse. Somehow got this random Longfellow poem quote…
“Like the Kingdom of Heaven, the Fountain of Youth is within us;
If we seek it elsewhere, old shall we grow in the search.”
Thought nothing of it but I searched Longfellow with some verse words anyways just in case there was a connection.
Found this poem line…
“
Ships that pass in the night
and speak each other in passing;
Only a signal shown and a distant voice
in the darkness
;
So on the ocean of life we pass and speak one another,
Only a look and a voice; then darkness again and a silence.”
Sounds like “Sails pass by night / Even in darkness”
Two unrelated poems by Longfellow with random keywords linking FOY and sails passing in the night. There’s no rhyme or reason. I’m sure I could link any poet to an FOY quote somewhere. That’s why I think it’s nothing but I know Longfellow was brought up for Boston so I found it interesting.
Longfellow also wrote the poem “Moonlight”. Too bad I couldn’t connect it to teardrops though.
Just want everyone to know that there’s still people hammering away at this thing. Not all is lost.

Just out of curiosity, how many people make up the so called consensus?

Consensus on what issue?

erexere

Perponderance has its use, but in this case quality is a better standard.  A great number of scattered clues lacking any sense of organzation compared to exactly enough clues organized in a specific and instructory way.
Are you seriously getting behind the idea of random guessing just because you have a perponderance of loosely put together bits?  One of the bits is perfect, “the first chapter”, but the rest are all over the place.  Such a setup doesn’t lead to something intelligent (this is not meant as an insult) seems more or less generic AND without cause.

Scattered clues? Scattered clues? Do you mean like a set of columns which are nowhere near a wall which does not have the lion fountain on it nor does it have a centaur sitting atop it which really isnt near the Terminal Tower which really is not beneath 2 countries which which which which. Those were all scattered all over the place but they were ALL there…somewhere, and a casque was found. Why is this so hard to understand?
Save some hat for me guys……..
…..and I, along with almost everyone on these boards is the consensus.

Most likely nothing but I thought I would share. If you go all the way down (south) Magnolia St it dead ends at Myrtle where the FOY ends. There is a nice gate there with a large tree next to the coquina wall. South of that is a beautiful white house surrounded by a white picket fence. Do you think that fence might have ever been green? The shutters and trim of the house are green. Looks like a nice quite place to bury something in my opinion.

I think I’ve got something figured out.  Everyone else probably had this idea settled, the instructions seem to indicate that the casque is “behind” a tree and a picket fence.  That would mean we are presented with a strong perspective on primary visual markers from a location “in front of” the tree with the fence standing between.

Glossiphoniidae

I’m really torn about the “wind-rose” news. On the one hand, I find it really hard to believe that with all the signage references in the verse, BP would have accidentally/coincidentally chosen the words “wind rose;” especially, with all the seeming references to the planetarium. On the other hand, this makes the Simon and the Pieman… SSS… theory a little more interesting – A wind rose that was most certainly there 30 years ago.

I would agree, except that a wind rose is *not* the same thing as a weather vane. These are different objects. If BP had meant weather vane, he would have written weather vane.

No dictionaries were opened in the creation of these verses. None are needed now.

Stercox…
Since the casque was not found at the Planetarium, it has occurred to me that maybe some of the other numbers in the image were germane…like the 8 in the rock. What about number 8 on the map–the Indian Burial? The rock head does look much like a Seminole Indian profile.
Also, there is a small device on the conquistador’s flag–it’s a small square inside a large circle. Is there anything like this anywhere in the park? Maybe an obelisk, inside a garden spot? Or a post inside some circular layout?
Just some thoughts. I, too, think this is an impressive decoding. Especially potent is the acrostic SELOY.  That would confirm for me that you are in the correct location.
Also—what about looking for the jewel where the jewel actually IS in the image? i.e., on the INDIAN’S HEAD. Does this mean anything to you? I’m not able to see anything more with the pictures and image.
Ck

Stercox…
Great job… great finds…  keep at it.
One thing I noticed, the ‘small marker’
(photo 117 of the FOY tour) looks exactly
(and the same angle) of the ‘island rock’ with palm tree.
(even the shadows match up)
So, if this is true, this identification should be in sight of the burial location
(not necessarily at it).
After your first tour and photos, I have always thought the ‘green picket fence’
would refer to one inside the grounds as opposed to just the one lining the
property.  (i could be wrong – but the ‘behind bending branches’ would take you into the park)
I like to think that verses would try and move you and the clues would not be repretitous.
Just my two-cents.

Let me add my applause to the general accolade for stercox. Great job!! SELOY nails it for sure.
I think Trohn may have a point. While the marker isn’t an exact match, I wonder if one could set a camera on the ground (at approximately the point I marked in red), aimed at the 11:00 position, and get a shot that looks very similar to the island-rock in P6. Is that a palm tree?

Having gone through more of your photos, I see there IS an obelisk and it IS a small square base within a large open circle, like the banner device.
Maybe you could follow the banner the conquistador is holding as if it were a path, and the jewel will be at the end of it….or perhaps where the bottom of the flagpole rests–use it as a pointer and the jewel will be roughly where it is in relation to that?
ck

a most impressive use of this verse!  I’ll have to let go of my other pet theories for it.
The Avenue of the Palms could be the only palm tree reference, not an actual tree.
Could the fountain be the rain that falls?

Wow.
Ma’am
!  Brilliant, Stercox.  Not that you need any more confirmers, but look at this…..
edit;
You can still hear the honking
Think this is the key and puts your dig site right on the money.
Not to be funny, but, maybe BP killed that tree by chopping some roots.
Done that myself in my own yard, accidentally.  Yet, under a tree with roots still
bothers me.  Can’t really see BP digging there because of that.  I saw in one of your
pics a telephone pole.  Might there be one nearby?
It would have been a tree at some point.  Just scratching my head on this one…..
edit:Here is the pole I saw.  Hoping there is one near your tree stump.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 … 0493Qbjvfd

Facing East.
It appears to be the orientation of the image.

I had a thought about your orientation and casque dig site.
I am thinking that the palm/rock in the lower right is probably a marker of some sort. I liked the idea that the small marker was the same shape as the rock , and that there was a tree in the pic too…but something about the exposed area of that small marker didn’t feel right to me.
But what about this: maybe the ‘rock’ in the image is a ‘negative’ space rather than a solid object? I mean, what if there is a
space
roughly that shape and orientation near a palm tree?  It’s not possible to tell from the pictures–they may or may not have the correct orientation. But I went over the Chicago and Cleveland solves again, and I noticed that he took a lot of liberties with space–the Ohio and Terminal tower clues in the Cleveland picture are ‘negative’ spaces–not solid. There is a ‘florida-shaped’ negative space on the right side of the P6–could that also be ‘park-shaped’ or could there be another negative space somewhere in the image that might help pinpoint the casque?
ck

I want to offer up thw following thought-
“Near Men”  is a defintion of Monkeys.

Near Men
With windrose……….
????  OR
???
hmmm…

Not that I don’t find humor, Fox,
I do
but wind rose is not a compass,
it is a map of historical wind frequencies…
like the kind used at
The National Hurricane Center
convientietly located in the middle of Miami.

wow… I really need to get my internet back up and working….
another thing mentioned some time ago about our illusive white rock and palm tree is the very strange occurance of said rock being reflected but said tree not…

simon says
and
simple simon are two different simons.

That’s a good closeup of the palm tree.  You will see that there are 5 palm leaves on the right side.  The “2” is sideways in the 4th leaf from the top.  The other digit is in the 3rd leaf, but you cannot see it clearly in that closeup.

Euhirudinea

There is a windrose in an exhibit in FoY Park, and it was there in 1981/82. Those are facts. Whether it has anything to do with the puzzle, and the location of the St. Augustine casque is speculative. As is most of the information in the Verses for the more difficult puzzles. That’s why this Forum has over 33K posts, and is still going strong.
Well, that and the trolls.

Exactly. It is common knowledge that a wind rose is in FOY. It is also common knowledge that 33K posts later, the casque is still buried by a warm blanket of sand and dirt.
By the way, the Castillo is simply a waymarker, nothing more,

We don’t know exactly how long a period it was between the time he put tue final touches on his verses to the time he published in Nov. 1982.  It might be a fun conclusion to consider 1981’s Raiders of the Lost Ark influenced image 8 in Houston.  I’m wondering now if An American Werewolf in London (august 1981) could’ve influenced Verse 9 with Image 12 in San Juan Island.  The setting is the site of the Pig War with the American and British camps at odds over the shooting of a pig.  He verse brings up a wolf howling at the moon conceptualization and provides a good possible perspective on artillery/mortars I.e. bullets.  The mention of silver could be the “silver bullet” needed to defeat a werewolf.

Unknown

Unknown:
Lime Kiln Point State Park is the only park in the country dedicated exclusively to whale-watching.

I didn’t get that right, the line is “Years pass, rain falls.”  I’m likely fooling myself into thinking the “pass” has something to do with Robert’s Rules of Order.  Maybe…
My thoughts have been drifting all over the place lately, because this verse is rather tricky.  The facts extracted from a general investigation of FOY really does point nicely to this verse, but given my objection, I must handle the delicate matter of consideration that Preiss either uses FOY as misdirection or we are very unfortunate in discovering strong but purely false clues.
Taking a good long look at the verse I see the “written in water” stands out as a sort of “crying” kind of reference.  The Keats epitaph is just that, words of mourning and memorial.  The other line, “Like moonlight in teardrops,” strongly pairs with this line also.  We have to consider that teardrops are the result of crying.  I’m sure someone has already considered this as a wolf sort of reference, since wolves are often depicted as howling at the moon.  This led me to some orbital type thinking:  what does crying/mourning/howling have to do with THE location.  I don’t know how this works with a FOY perspective.  I’m focusing on San Juan Island instead and I feel obligated to work this angle as much as I can to prove one way or another that it is or isn’t the right answer.  If it isn’t right, then it just puts another notch in the FOY belt.  Turn over every rock, right?  So here’s my orbital result:  wailing.  Wailing is the trick in this verse.  A wail is a cry of grief and is synonymous with a howl and the one way this works for my San Juan Island theory is that the word ‘wail’ is a homonym of ‘whale’.  Another line, “Shell, limestone, silver, salt” pairs well in connection with the location of Lime Kiln Point State Park.  I’ve read that it is aka “Whale Watch Park” and
.  This is beginning to simmer nicely as a reasonable deduction and direction for this verse.
I perceive the Lime Kiln Point as a broad sort locator.  I think the First Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution dedicating the plaque in honor of H.M. Robert on the Redoubt Rock is a narrowing clue as well as the Picket Arch, the American Camp Flagpole, and the Officer’s Quarters as strong location markers.  The radio beacon lighthouse clue “Sails pass by night / Even in darkness” brings the Cattle Point Lighthouse on the other end of the island into consideration, but it becomes a distant marker that doesn’t compel me as much as the close together clues.  Cattle Point Lighthouse is right next to Goose Island, which fits nicely with “I can still hear the honking”.  These distant markers might identify with the method used in Verse 11 “Look north at the wing”, which for me refers to a location in Rodanth, south of Pea Island and even farther from the Wright Memorial “Wing” in the distant north along highway 12.
I’m very enticed by the facts of the San Juan Island location, only I can’t fully grasp how all the clues work together with Image 12.  At this point it is a matter of getting to the site and letting the magic happen by observing what hasn’t been captured by google and tourist photos.

Is this considered a wind rose?

WhiteRabbit

I’ve only just caught up with these oyster-wall clues. (Thought the texture looked odd but hadn’t realised what it was.)
Like moonlight in teardrops
“Ancient stories tell of how the Arabs had a superstition that
pearls
are dewdrops filled with moonlight, which fall into the sea and are swallowed by the oysters.”
http://hubpages.com/hub/Dew-Drops-Filled-With-Moonlight
“The wall itself captured my attention. Short on natural building supplies, and long on oysters, the original streets of St Augustine and many fences were created from
oyster shells
– and known as Taby. The textured background is from the wall by the Fountain of Youth, thickly encrusted with the shells.”
http://www.thelensflare.com/gallery/p_t … _36487.php

Good research, but I’ve found that many many many coastal and island structures utilized sea shells as mortar.
My focus is actually on the word ‘mortar’.  Mortar in masonry terms is generally made of lime and aggregate materials, so limestone can certainly be a clue about mortar, including the use of sea shells.  Related in now physical way the weapon term ‘mortar’ refers to a type of artillery shell, which of course isn’t a type of sea shell.  An artillery shell isn’t made of limestone, but that doesn’t rule out the possibility that there is some kind of word play or lateral thinking involved.  Also on the line we have “…,silver, salt”.   A silver salt that comes to mind is Silver Nitrate, often used in photography or in fertilizer for agriculture.  Another and different kind of mortar reference comes with gunpowder where it’s manufacture might involve use of a mortar and pestle and a limestone milling device.  Silver is also somewhat linked to the moon, and so might work as a reinforcing idea with the moonlight mention.  Salt can link to a very wide range of possibilities.  Venturing a guess, I’d say salt has to do with simply “the ocean”.
The FOY relation to the line is also a nice fit with the Silver Salt Cellar signage.  In San Juan Island, it works very nicely as a reference to the Redoubt, a limestone foundry fortified with canon artillery designed to launch shells at ships at sea.

I wonder if this can be viewed from somewhere near a green fence…
cormac stercox talks about the fences here, the one that needs replacing all the time
prob could be seen form there and the small marker
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i … ic=759.225

cw0909

and a tall tree

I wonder if this can be viewed from somewhere near a green fence…

Let me know if I can help too! I’m in the region anyway! I have some pictures from last July when we were there I will Dropbox and link. I’d like to follow the development with the site!
Sent from my iPhone using
Tapatalk

Hey Egbert, any word on FOY?
Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk

No, for a couple of reasons.  First, the FoY owner was extremely busy over the past couple of months, with the Mumford & Sons concert, the Ponce de Leon celebration, and the usual holidays.  Also, my friend who was helping me on this came down with a severe illness, was hospitalized, and is only now just recovering.  I am hoping to rekindle things over the next few weeks.

Revisiting.
Men with wind rose = Nightengale Rose = Chart maker and Nurse, Florence Nightengale = nurse
Soldiers camp with nurse building
Years pass,
The Florence Nightingale Pledge
I solemnly pledge myself before God and presence of this assembly;
To
pass my life
in purity and to practice my profession faithfully.
I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous
and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug.
I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession
and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping
and family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling.
With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician in his work,
and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care.

I Read this very very carefully, Just to make sure I wasn’t missing something.
and nothing here convinces me.
Totally sounds like a case of shoehorning a verse into a place where it doesn’t fit.
Basically every line requires bending over backwards and obscure knowledge.
and Seagulls do not honk

I didn’t like the seagulls honking idea much either.  A horn honks.  Maybe there’s some flying shoehorns nearby….
I edited my post to reflect bugle call as the reason for honking rather than pesky seagulls.
For this particular case I wonder if it’s a military bugle or a fog horn given the dense fogs that often occur in the area.  I keep forgetting to make a phone call to see if they still practice a bugle routine.  I have a group of kids going on a field trip to San Juan Island this spring.  I’m hoping they’ll gather some intel for me but they won’t be allowed to pack cell phones or recording devices while doing their week long camp.
The thing about the Nightengale Oath is it is based on the Hippocratic Oath and I’m not saying there’s suppose to be any big doctor patient theme here or anything.  It’s just that the word “pass” occurs in the Nightengale Oath and isn’t used in the Hippocratic.  It’s the skinniest shred of hope that BP wanted this word to be relevant in this way and so it’s totally justified to call it shoehorning.  I’m only offering the widest perspective I can with respect to diligently checking all facts that might apply.  In this case, very slim chance, but I wouldn’t say there’s no chance at this point.

Stercox, excellent work!  You are in the right area.  I have just a couple of thoughts to share:
The symbol on the flag (see your album, photo 4) is an overhead view of the monument (see photo 5, upper left-hand corner).
I think the “green picket fence” is the one in the background of photo 6.  I’m guessing the fence near the park entrance is too high for a traditional “picket fence”?
Hopefully the casque is still there and undisturbed.  Good luck!

I’ve been experimenting with reversal, flip, and mirroring of images, and now I’m wondering if it could apply to text.
In order to keep us from seeing these relationships, Byron may have translated out their obviousness:
Look at the last line here: Years pass, rain falls
Years = age. What if “years pass” is the equivalent of “age pass”, and the intent is to swap the word order, giving us pass+age or a single new word: passage.
Rain falls = rain is in the form of drops, and a fall is also a drop, therefore we work with the word “drops”. The rotation of some letters gives us other letters, ‘d’ becomes ‘p’, ‘r’ doesn’t rotate to anything new, ‘o’ stays an ‘o’, and an ‘s’ stays an ‘s’ when rotated. Our new word is “prods”.
Our riddle is now related to these two words: passage, prods.
I’ve been working to identify the application of an image match for a lighthouse, which is something which aids in safe navigation or passage. A prod may be something used to push or goad, like a spur or a pointy stick.
“Years pass, rain falls” could in this conception be “Lighthouse, cattle prod” or “Cattle Point Lighthouse”

I certainly do – in the corner behind the cannon at the bottom of Magnolia.
(I see a cannon in this pic, though no-one else seems to.)
I’m also curious as to what this red square is on that gate there (the old entrance)…I wondered about a subtle match with the saddle.
I’ve been trying to persuade someone to dig there for over a year. The current manager, John Stavely, even offered to dig there himself at one time, though I probably pestered him too much and he went quiet.  😉
(I’m sure he’d be cooperative though.)
There’s a summary of my thoughts on this one here…
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/floridapuzzle.pdf

me too,ive always had a hard time thinking BP dug in park proper
dig in that clump of trees the fence may have been green at one time
i put it here b4 not sure where it is though
http://goo.gl/maps/8hPRa
zoom
http://goo.gl/maps/qmTHT
backside
http://goo.gl/maps/CVH0S
one more
http://goo.gl/maps/5hX4Y

421, it’s probably just me and my twisted sense to perceive clues that aren’t intended:  NEWS on the weathervane might be construed as MEN(S) if you look at it upside down from the right angle.

erexere

421, it’s probably just me and my twisted sense to perceive clues that aren’t intended:  NEWS on the weathervane might be construed as MEN(S) if you look at it upside down from the right angle.

LOL! I actually thought about that too. But at the end of the day, it’s a bit too twisted for me. If the line read, “near mens,” I might have considered it a bit more. But you know me… literalist.

Agreed.

Simon and the Pieman wind rose on a HoJo in St. Augustine… near men with wind rose…

It’s a shame the link to Stercox’s photos on Webshots seems to have broken now. There’s so much in the verse (and image IMHO) about the planetarium, I don’t see any reason to doubt that the wind rose is the one mentioned on the sign there.

It will take some considering still but I believe we must look for rather large details, not super minor things.  Cleveland and Chicago use big things that have a considerable amount of connectivity in the bigger picture.
That windrose inside that building entryway is kind of off the path.  I’d like to see building spires, arches, statues and a general boundary around the premises of the casque.  Let’s see this from an architectural and art point of view.

erexere

That windrose inside that building entryway is kind of off the path.

Well, not really, but I guess it depends what path you’re on. The building is the planetarium. The verse features it quite heavily, although I see it from the other side of the wall than most.

WhiteRabbit

It’s a shame the link to Stercox’s photos on Webshots seems to have broken now. There’s so much in the verse (and image IMHO) about the planetarium, I don’t see any reason to doubt that the wind rose is the one mentioned on the sign there.

the windrose is in front of FOY,sorry edit,the windrose at the hojo
http://goo.gl/maps/bWVZo

WhiteRabbit

I wish we could find someone willing to try digging at this place – I bet we could locate this one now. The only people I hear from attempt places like Houston and Charleston which are far more difficult.

Do you have aspot in mind Rabbit?
Me and some conmrades are planning our trips for this year and i might be willing to take a stab at this one if we are fairly certain of a spot.

slappybuns

u mentioning those last two flowers as 11 made me think of the address to FOY  11 magnolia street

Ah, OK. I like that.
(I’ve been trying to count the total number of those dividing pillars in the wall but it’s tricky to do via Google maps.)

I’ll count those pillars for you when I find the time to get to st. augustine one of these weekends. Slappy, trust me. I’ve got Stercox’s entire album saved to hardrive and printed out in hardcopy. There are plenty of references to the park, I’m just looking for more concrete images in the painting that JJP would have put in there from photographs given to him of the area by BP. There are several spots within the park I think it could be. But I’d like to look right outside the park a little bit too as, like I have said several times on here over the past several years, I’m not convinced that BP would have buried the casque directly in the FOY park, even if security may have been a little lacking 30 years ago (or now).
Obviously he was pointing to the park. The shape of the park is also the rough shape of the rock in the painting. Remember, JJP would have like copy of a Map to go on when painting, not google earth. With that in mind it is just as fair of an assumption to assume that the location of the jewel in the rock represents the casque location as anything else. I have followed that way of thinking on one of my earlier visits to collect pictures and investigate, but it still restricts us to the park. I need to get a new album up with my pics. Not sure if my Flickr still has my FOY photos.
Also, that flower is likely the aster. It grows in the tall grasses that make up the Salt Marshes of florida. It is also the state flower and the birth flower of the 9th month of the year. The saphire is also the birth gem of september. I have also mentioned this before in the thread.
BP and JJP seem to have doen this in each of the pictures though. But as far as I know no one has come up with a convincing reason for the connection yet. Months, flowers, gems. Was that BPs way of having fun with us or is there a greater meaning to each individual picture/verse combination.

cobock
i just get excited when someone is going hunting, and just want to refresh with all the good stuff in these threads.  maybe something we say, if we say it a little differently  will hit you when u get there.  i just want you to find one.
i would be really scared to go digging in the park, and it would be great if it was outside the wall (by the planetarium
)………but if it isn’t (just in case)….maybe by the duck pond
i really have been outlining so many ducks in this image, but i can’t upload anything for some reason (will message cthree later and see if she can help)
i would like for you to see them and also keep in mind those tinajones urns, because it mentions “years”  and “rainfall”  and some are shaped like teardrops, ok?
scroll down til after the seloy marker for the teardrop urn:
http://buddventures.blogspot.com/2008_0 … chive.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42182237@N08/4114310140/
and the squiggly lines at the duck pond:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pritheworld/4712226344/
i’m just afraid it is inside the park
but maybe not, maybe that line about “reflection in a passing limo”  means the parking lot  (and the honking)
hoping for the best!

cobock1

Also, that flower is likely the aster. It grows in the tall grasses that make up the Salt Marshes of florida. It is also the state flower and the birth flower of the 9th month of the year. The saphire is also the birth gem of september. I have also mentioned this before in the thread. BP and JJP seem to have doen this in each of the pictures though. But as far as I know no one has come up with a convincing reason for the connection yet. Months, flowers, gems. Was that BPs way of having fun with us or is there a greater meaning to each individual picture/verse combination.

Good question. I’m sure these have a place in the puzzles, such as helping to match images/verses/places. By cross-referencing the gems/flowers/months in the images with the litany, you can also find a nationality of course. And although there’s a few muddled references in there (like the blue “amethyst” in the Milwaukee pic) it seems to have been a fairly reliable guide.
(These suggestions are just speculative until a casque is found, but for instance, Marigold, Mary’s Gold, ties in with City of Mary for Montreal, as do the Dutch. Gladiolus ties in with gladiator/Roman coliseum for Boston, and the library where the trail starts is Italianate. Chrysanthemum seems to go with with the suggested image of the Chrysler building in image 12. Jackson of New Orleans’ Jackson Square connects with the mechanical Turk, Turkey lending its name to Turquoise, and “New Orleans” comes from the French, etc.)
Since the gem and flower are determined by the month, I wouldn’t necessarily expect all three to be relevant to a particular puzzle, but I would imagine that at least one of them would crop up somewhere.
Is the aster the state flower of Florida…? I can only find orange blossom, though if the aster is/was also known as the state flower that would be enough to account for it.
The Sapphire in the image seems to have a definite six-pointed star in it.
“A star sapphire is a type of sapphire that exhibits a
star-like
phenomenon known as
asterism
. Star sapphires contain intersecting needle-like inclusions (often the mineral rutile, a mineral composed primarily of titanium dioxide) that cause the appearance of a six-rayed star-shaped pattern when viewed with a single overhead light source.”
Aster, the flower, also means star, and the verse has the line: “Stars move by day”. The litany identifies the Sapphire as the Spanish gem. So for instance, in this case the month/star/flower attribution could be a pointer that this verse and image are the Spanish puzzle. Also ties in with the planetarium clue.

u mentioning those last two flowers as 11 made me think of the address to FOY  11 magnolia street (which aren’t magnolias, but oak trees).
but also, one of stercox’s pictures showed the door to the springhouse with one of the flowers.

Someone elsewhere has mentioned that the profile in Image 6 resembles the sentinels designed by Antoni Gaudi in Barcelona’s Casa Mila
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_Mil%C3%A0#/media/File:Casa_Mil%C3%A0_01.jpg
and if this is intentional, it would tie into the St. Augustine “Sentinels of the Coast” historical landmark. There is a picnic type park there and it is just one street away from Ponce De Leon Avenue
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8861256,-81.2875457,3a,75y,104.48h,79.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shDOHK6WdksORizjcITIB0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
. I realize this is the Verse 9 discussion, so sorry if this is considered off topic.

FlippinArkansas

Someone elsewhere has mentioned that the profile in Image 6 resembles the sentinels designed by Antoni Gaudi in Barcelona’s Casa Mila
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_Mil%C3%A0#/media/File:Casa_Mil%C3%A0_01.jpg
and if this is intentional, it would tie into the St. Augustine “Sentinels of the Coast” historical landmark. There is a picnic type park there and it is just one street away from Ponce De Leon Avenue
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8861256,-81.2875457,3a,75y,104.48h,79.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shDOHK6WdksORizjcITIB0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
. I realize this is the Verse 9 discussion, so sorry if this is considered off topic.

Oh, and I forgot to mention another possible link: Casa Mila is known colloquially as “the Quarry” which is obviously relevant to St. Augustine because of the significant historical value of the Old Spanish Rock Quarry near Anastasia State Park.

Visited the FOY park on Saturday
Something that occured to me was men with compass rose could simply be men with directions.
or something simple as an information booth.
so you enter the park passing the 1st chapter sign
you pass directly by the information booth.
you come right up to a 5 foot tall green picket fence
You cant go to the right as that is the exit of the part
but you can go to the left…
you walk past the end of the fence
and come to a sign that says peacock nesting – no tresspassing…
but looking back there is a large storage area outside of the park proper…
I looked for a large tree from where I stood-but almost all the trees are the same size
but looking at it on google earth there is a barn-storage bldg to the left out of site of where I was standing
and directly south o that in the treeline is a large tree
which would actually be directly in line with the end ofthe green picket fence.
I suspect you guys have nailed this one down.  Its a matter of going in at night like BP did
or asking nicely for permisson.  (the important piece being its not inside the park grounds….)
When I get a chance I will post a google earth picture of exactly where I think it is.  I had to leave soon after getting there
I hope there is someone more local who can jump on this…
Maltedfalcon

The lines concerning the stars moving by day and
sails moving at night almost confirm that you must
walk past the discovery globe and the planetarium.
I do believe that the last lines
‘like moonlight in tear drops’ indicates that you
are staring at the outer wall with the thousands
of embedded sea shells.
This wall is indeed ‘over the tall grass’
Despite the explanation of underground electrical lines,
I think (along with the image showing the jewel
embedded in a rock) somewhere along the outer wall
(behind the green fence) is the proper spot.
Malted-
Know that someone has a good relationship with the FOY owners
and all are interested in unearthing this one.

Actually I assumed those lines  stars.sails tall grass
indicated going past the park into the tall grass where there is a view of the waterway with all the sailboats going by..
Great-
remember the verse is going to resolve to a straightforward set of directions.  a narrative of a walk you take.
it wont have you zig-zagging back and forth.
What did you come up with for men with compass rose?
again I dont beleive he actually entered the park proper during his walk to the casque.
Maltedfalcon

maltedfalcon

What did you come up with for men with compass rose?
again I dont beleive he actually entered the park proper during his walk to the casque.
Maltedfalcon

This may be true but it is against the findings on the other solves and near solves.
(by placing the casques within the historical places, he knew that they would be fairly
safe from random constructions)
There are
many clues
form the verse to indicate that he was within the park and attended
the exhibits.
“near men with wind rose” could be a description of a diarama in the lobby of the
Discovery Globe.

Actually I disagree that it is against the other findings and near fnds.
Bp placed these casques with the assumption that they would all shortly be found.
He made no attempt to place them so they would be safe in the long term.. (he said that)
again he placed them at night – are you suggesting he broke into the park?
I dont deny he entered the park- at all
Does the
but the casque will have been placed where it is accesible
I also think if you had to pay admission to find clues he would have noted it. (as in the verse where he noted ask persmission to get out)
The picture gets you to a location, the verse resolves into a direct walk to the casque. (or so it has been in the findings and near findings…)
also notice that the other found verses resolve to more or less straight lines – not meandering paths…
Still I wish you the best of luck!
MaltedFalcon
Matt Sparks

Malted-
I agree with your general principles and process.
I have not been to FOY so I had always assumed that
questions of exactness could be reolved on site.
I too think his verses should be as direct a line from point
A to point B as possible.
Although a zig zag path may be necessary to get one around a green fence
(in order to double back to the possible dig location)
Good luck shouldn’t go to me for this one, I am still looking to dig
elsewhere for other images.

(1)  The first chapter = implies other chapters follow, George Pickett as chapter 1, his son who died at age 32 of Tuberculosis is the next chapter.
(2)  Written in water = Keats epitaph, who also died of Tuberculosis.
(3)  Near men = “close quarters” as ‘near’ and officers as men = Officers Quarters
(4)  With wind rose
(14)  Over the tall grass
(6)  And a green picket fence
(7)  At the base of a tall tree
(8)  You can still hear the honking
(9)  Shell, limestone, silver, salt = Cattle Point Light House
(10)  Stars move by day = flag and mast by the Officer’s Quarters bldg..
(11)  Sails pass by night
(12)  Even in darkness
(13)  Like moonlight in teardrops
(5)  Behind bending branches
(15)  Years pass, rain falls.
When I swap line 5 with line 14 I get “SELBY” instead of SELOY.  The verse almost seems improved with “rose” preceding “over”.  William SELBY Harney is responsible for sending George Pickett and his men to Washington in the first place.

shecrab

Whiterabbit…perhaps a little more hard research on those things we’ve already ferreted out might be more helpful. There really is little doubt that the location suggested by image 2 is Charleston, or the one in Image 3 is Roanoke Island, 7 is New Orleans, 8 is Houston, 10 is Milwaukee, 12 New York. Very solid confirmers have been uncovered for these images and they match the type of solid confirmers in the two that were solved. In the Cleveland image, the big confirmer was the silhouette of the Terminal Tower. In Chicago’s image, it was the water tower. In other images, there are definite pieces that point to definite locations – things that have already been found. The same can be said of some of the verses.

I think Shecrab has a point here. It would take something fairly convincing to lead things away from choices like NY / I12…

The first line:  The first chapter
Initially this puts us on an organization of some kind.  My theory of the clues align themselves to point to the Daugthers of the American Revolution having different chapters in the many states, their first being connected to the state of Washington.
Upon following the clues to San Juan Island’s American Camp, a spot surely involves the placque on H.M. Robert’s Rock dedicated by the Daughters.  In image 12, the right side window pane has a clock showing what looks to be the 11th hour.  A historic trail for tourism has numbered markers around the area, the No.11 marker is the prominent flag pole at the camp behind a picket fence.  A lighthouse fits miles away to the east, next to Goose Island fits the left side window pane.  The pane to it’s right has some Byzantine/Russian shaped dome silouettes, which I consider a challenging clue about ‘piers’, as those are architecturally related.  Already we have an elongated illustration with a windowesque look suggestive of the early church or abbey windows possibly known as ‘Washington Windows’ (no connection to the state of Washington).  The clock in the right most pane is much in the style of a ‘pier clock’ and goes well with the ocean waves and ocean bird in the image to suggest a maritime reference.  The word ‘chapter’ has meaning in a church as being an assembly of it’s members in organization.  The stream-of-conciousness style of this verse doesn’t make for an easy understanding.  My best guess is that the word ‘piers’ relates to the first line: members in assembly =
peers
, like those of a jury.  This has a very interesting connection to Robert’s Rules of Order, which is an established set of rules that has been adopted as a foundation in parliamentary procedings.  When this casque is found I think it will be immediately obvious that it’s associated with a ‘pier’ of some form.  My guess is it’s next to a cement pier of a fencepost.  Some piers sit on the surface of the ground and the fence is bolted on top.  Others are below ground projections or poured cement around the fencepost in it’s post hole.
I think Preiss said at one time that he did use a post hole digger…maybe he was disguised as someone doing some fence repair…

Just putting in new sprinkler heads 🙂

BINGO

That park map has coordinate data that can be scaled down to a 1’x1’ location.
If anyone (burnstyle?) has a specific location on that particular map that they are trying to actually find on the ground, it is very possible.
The coordinate number grid on the top and right side of the map is a home run for any surveyor worth his/her salt.

All of the info on that map is post 2002.
Fraiser told me that particular map was not around in the 80’s
Though he told me once there was one like it on site. So I dunno.

WhiteRabbit

(It would be cool if someone shared Stercox’s old album, as I don’t think it’s available anywhere anymore. I seem to remember a photo of her standing next to an impressive hole she dug.)

I messaged her to ask her for a link.

burnstyle

All of the info on that map is post 2002.
Fraiser told me that particular map was not around in the 80’s
Though he told me once there was one like it on site. So I dunno.

It looks like that map included a survey of test pits and other gathered ground data from around 1994. Since it has the coordinate grid labeled, any items of interest that may be gone now are actually quite simple to locate very accurately.
I guess the biggest question is whether or not there are any interesting missing items that could help the hunt.

Thank you, your Sir-ness!
So in looking at the date information in the EXIF data for those pics, it looks like the newer sign (black lettering/white background) was in place for Egbert’s pic on 8/5/2007. Meaning the one that has the word casque must have been older than that. Thank you!

…apologies for the misattribution Egbert; I had a niggle in the back of my mind that it might have been one of yours…
I like this pic from your album. (Don’t remember seeing it before.)
(It would be cool if someone shared Stercox’s old album, as I don’t think it’s available anywhere anymore. I seem to remember a photo of her standing next to an impressive hole she dug.)

That park map has coordinate data that can be scaled down to a 1’x1’ location.
If anyone (burnstyle?) has a specific location on that particular map that they are trying to actually find on the ground, it is very possible.
The coordinate number grid on the top and right side of the map is a home run for any surveyor worth his/her salt.

Just discovered a sign marker with the words “The Prairie” in large print on it.  It is just next to the Redoubt Rock.  This is possibly the best physical object representing the line “Over the tall grass”.  I believe it’s number 5 on the history walk.  Sorry I can’t find the pic this moment, but it’s there.  Maybe Bigmatty will take a closer look for us.

Hey, being displaced because of the hurricanes, trying to keep up with the links and do things with the family…  I just read this link and am getting ready to take my boys to the “Falls of the Ohio”.  I did some research on the falls and I hope this helps with this link.  I just read that Limestone is a sedimentary rock that fossils are often found in and that salt is often found there.  I also read and liked the idea about the site being near a planetarium…Anyway just thought that I would put the thought out there that he may be talking about fossils.  Just a thought about the fossils, though
.

Behind bending branches
I remember a time about twenty years ago I was in my first year on the crew team at U of O and the first thing we would do in the morning to warm up was grab a big boat oar, four people per oar, run six miles around the lake and then line up on the dock and do sit-ups while still holding the oar.  This gem of repressed memory just popped into my mind the other day and I thought it might apply to military exercise training.  Imagine a large group of soldiers doing sit-ups and pushups in their barracks, specifically the army branch…

I have run across so many tangential relations between each of my theories, I have just begun to chalk it up to the six degrees of separation. When referring to historical stuff, especially historic people, it seems to be much more like one or two degrees since the population/world was much smaller.

That really is a powerful architecture.  I can visualize Occam as a little boy sledding down that hill…yeah, I see what you mean.

lol

I’ve been reading some interesting history about Andrew Jackson and Jean Lafitte.  It was interesting that Lafitte helps fight against the British in New Orleans but also becomes a spy and pirate.  It’s a colorful history.  The wikipedia article mentions how many folks assumed Lord Byron’s poem “The Corsair” was based on Lafitte.  It’s just a pet theory of mine that Byron Priess drew inspiration based on Lord Byron, but I’ll need to work at that idea much much more.  Perhaps someone else around here has had a similar idea.  A flat out NO might suffice, but any citations or proof to the contrary is always welcome.
Another interesting note: William Selby Harney’s first military accomplishment was forcing Jean Lafitte out of the Louisiana Territory and onto the Spanish Main.  I don’t know if that’s significant or not, but it’s difficult to ignore or consider insignificant.  Wasn’t or Andrew Jackson or Jean Lafitte mentioned in the thread about the New Orleans casque?  –please consider this as side research into a possible connecting thread between casques.

If you go inside the entrance to the fountain you will see a map of Florida. “The first chapter” is literally written in the ocean section of the map.

Here is an album full of.various new pictures. Ill come.back and explain each of them when I have a bit more time.
http://imgur.com/a/hornE

erexere

Are you being childish or joking?

Oh sorry, didn’t read the whole message, and didn’t realize you were talking to me.  no I was being serious. I was inferring that a lot of your methodologies seem to be random word associations based on loosely put together bits.
ie. your path to arrive at the west coast based on the montreal legeater.
and I’m not saying thats not a valid methodology.  I’m saying it struck me funny that you would say that, when it seemed to me you do that alot.
It is possible that not every clue has meaning, Is longfellow signiificant in this hunt, possibly are the other authors, Stevenson, etc. significant, possibly,
or they could have actually no bearing at all on the hunt or as clues other than, BP used the words to make the verses sound better.

okay, I think I understand better now that you’ve explained some more.
I have delivered a lot of loose association based ideas, like anyone who is brainstorming from a fresh perspective.  That being true in the past, it’s up to me to do a better job outlining my current and future attempts so my process is clearer to those who are skimming the forums.  When there’s little to no hard evidence, especially for the outside-the-box style thinkers, it’s hard to differentiate the good from the bad.
You’re right, it is funny that I’ve suddenly developed a concern for the difference between a loose methodology or a constrained one.  I have to say it’s because I’ve gathered enough experience handling bad theories to know that it’s time I really focus on a sharper line of questioning.  While I’m working out the bugs in my own theories, I’m trying to apply the same level of criticism to any other theories including FOY.  Since I’ve introduced a competing theory and I’ve raised the question that there might be a red herring involved, I want to treat the situation fairly.  For all I know, FOY is correct and San Juan Island is the red herring.  A few people here have already discussed the possibility of red herrings.  They might consider the topic closed, but I remain skeptical.  I think we’re still super-green in our understandings of the puzzles having only two out of a tweleve range of discovery.  We’re still in an extremely limited zone for extrapolation.
Verse 9 is so poetic.  Seeing the acrostic reference in the Keats-epitaph words would be solid if the entirety of the verse contributed, but only settling on the last 5 lines is what made me suspicious from the start.  I thought it would be silly to take all 15-lines as a 15-letter anagram, but when I looked at adjusting four lines, a relatively small adjustment, to make the TONWWASAYSSELBY acrostic, I thought that’s less of a crazy anagram and more as a “here’s a puzzle that’s easy to get if you just toy with it a bit”.  I’m inclined to think FOY is the red herring because it’s references come with less work to perceive each bit of information.  *SELOY is plain in it’s presentation, “The First Chapter” is exactly as you see the words at the entrance to the park, etc.  Wherever any of these puzzles lead us, I would think it’s quickly understood that once establishing a good sense for having found the start of the puzzle, then it’s just a matter of working out the rest.  There’s bound to be some stumbling blocks, but then we should be discussing them and I think breaking through them now that we have a good collective of minds here at q4t.  You see my point, don’t you?  There’s some nagging dead-ends and nagging guesswork operating in the FOY perspective.  I wonder if the poetic reference is persistent in some respect.  Are we looking for eptiaph like places at FOY or San Juan Island?  I wonder if the focus on teardrops and the moon as a “wolf” ties in somehow.  These may be loose ideas at this point, but working with a constrained methodology while keeping an open mind on what we might not have noticed in the Cleveland or Chicago solves is the approach I’m trying to have.
So don’t be dissuaded from my past mistakes, or take my push for a San Juan Island or Corbett theory as an affront to those focused solely on FOY.  Let’s just treat it fairly.

Unknown

Unknown:
wind 1  (wnd)
n.
1.
a. Moving air, especially a natural and perceptible movement of air parallel to or along the ground.
b. A movement of air generated artificially, as by bellows or a fan.
…
6.
a. Something that disrupts or destroys: the winds of war

Wind rose is two words.  Wind means one thing, rose means one thing.
The disagreement between two people can be called a wind.
Something that rises or escalates = rose. (past tense of
rise
)
Wind rose = escalation of conflict = war.

“Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”  —Sigmund Freud

shecrab

…without any knowledge of where the casque was…

Unknown

Unknown:
“Byron’s kind of like a little mad genius,” Palencar says. “He travelled the country picking places. Then he’d fed-ex me these dossiers with obscure photos and notes.” Palencar came up with the idea of burying a casque in the Greek Cultural Garden. “We were kind of brainstorming places,” Palencar remembers. “I told Byron, I think I have a good spot.” He took Preiss out to the garden and then stood lookout while Preiss buried the casque.

People keep saying this, but the only information I’ve come across about Palencar’s involvement is this excerpt I recently quoted from one of the newspaper articles, and which indicates that he thought of at least one of the locations himself.
Is there any evidence that Palencar didn’t know where the casques were buried? The idea of creating a picture-based puzzle without the artist knowing the answer seems bizarre.