According to other information I had about this hunt, Palencar was only able to suggest the Greek Cultural gardens because he is a resident of the area (or was.) He is from Fairview Park, Ohio, not far from the Gardens. The other casques were buried without any knowledge on his part.
And Slappy, as much as it sounds like it would work, it just wouldn’t work to paint “half” of something and then expect people to use a mirror to find the other half. For one thing, the paintings done were larger than the book format. For another, they were done in mixed media: pastels, watercolors, pencil and paint. The way artists paint would not make it easy to plan for that sort of use of a mirror–not without digital involvement right off the bat (i.e., being able to “mirror” the result so one could see what it was that was needed to be painted.
I urge you again to look at the ones that
were
solved. This ought to be the benchmark for the search on the other images. I don’t think such obscure methods are necessary. You must remember that it’s been 30 years since these casques were buried! So much has changed–a tree can grow several dozen feet in that time, bushes die, hills appear and disappear, paving is done or removed–landmarks shift and change. Also remember that Preiss did not expect this hunt to EVER last this long. He expected the casques to be found rather quickly. That would preclude hiding them so well, or with such difficulty that one would need extra objects like mirrors to find them.

shecrab

The other casques were buried without any knowledge on his part.

I still don’t know where this idea that JJP knew nothing about the locations came from, though I guess at the end of the day it probably makes no difference. Who knows what Byron asked him to include in the pictures, or in what way.

I have to agree with shecrab.  Of course we may be wrong…that is always an option….but I think we are straying away from what worked because we have hit a brick wall
.  1. yes, bp had never imagined that this hunt would go on for so long. The Chicago casque was found in a matter of a couple months….long before Google Earth, the internet, mathematical computer programs counting every 3rd letter from every 16th word beginning with the letter t, etc.  It was found with an I, a V and possibly a little bit of library time.  2. JJP did not know where the casques were hidden.  He was given pics of what was nearby and he created the Images.
I believe that we are so close to finding most of the rest of the casques…we just need that final piece to the puzzle. I believe we will find a casque in: Milwaukee, San Francisco, Boston, E Gardens, Houston, Charleston, in or around FOY, New Orleans, New York , and 1 somewhere in Canada. That list accounts for EVERY remaining casque out there.  Let’s just put our heads together
and focus on the obvious.

i’m sorry, i was rushed last night.  BP was given pictures of the site where the cask was hidden.  All JJp had to do was paint
half
of any object in the pictures he was given, and then someone could use a mirror to see the other half.  this is a treasure book, with 12 different riddles.  i think using a mirror would be an easy way to hide objects in a painting used for a  treasure hunt.
you could put a mirror on the page, there is no trick to it
one reason i printed out a mirrored image was so i could post to you guys what i saw,
it is just two folds ———————–or 2 placements of the mirror on your page of the book
1. straight down from the flag———–i looked at the left side instead of the right side of the fold
2. straight from the gem to the “reflected” island
i’m not saying do this for the other  images, i think they will be different.  but this image definitely is saying “reflection”,  and what better way than with a mirror
i can’t believe no one thinks this is possible or takes it serious.
using a mirror to find hidden objects in a painting is not a new thing, it’s been done for centuries, look here under anamorphosis:
http://www.ehow.com/list_6819592_techni … g-art.html
umm,   my folds could be wrong, someone might know of a better way to angle the mirror (or fold if you print out a mirrored image), i’m just saying i think this is the method for this image.  and i hope cobock will keep an eye out for these shapes while he is there  🙂
and maybe you just to need to mirror once,  the reflected island (cask) to the gem—–the one i did with the cask at the top, then flipped to show at the bottom
right now, i don’t even think it’s the fountain,  because with the picture whiterabbit posted for me, with the cask up at the top, if you follow it down, it is inside one of the regular shaped tinajones urns, you can see parking lot or a path, the cars, gates, and the urn, i think it is showing both the parking lot and the entrance from magnolia.  wonder if he would have just put it down inside the urn?

I do not intend to dig on any private land, with or without permission. I would gladly join someone else who has authorization on a dig , but I myself will set nothing of the sort up.

forest_blight

stercox – the reason I asked about the root-ball of a palm tree earlier was because BP would have had just as much trouble digging around an oak as you did. If it is buried at the base of a tall tree, and there are lots of palms around,
ceteris paribus
it is more likely to be under a palm tree. Also, I would be more inclined to describe a plam as a “tall tree” than an oak or a magnolia, whose width tends to obscure their height.  Not to mention there is a palm tree – with what looks like a line drawn from its trunk the ground beside it – in P6.

Yes, I agree.   I have been giving palm trees a lot of thought today and reading through all the posts helped shift my thoughts….a little.  I had subconsciously centered my original theory around the planetarium, falsely thinking that this “centering” was being clue-driven by
Near men with windrose
.  I like Pine’s thoughts about “
Near
may not mean Near, near”.  I do not mean to say that I have given up the idea that it’s some where close to the Planetarium–but it may not be as close as I had originally thought.  There are a couple problems that have been nagging at me:  (1) The roots are killer if its any other tree than a palm,  (2) The final visual confirmer just seems like it should be the P6 palm tree, (3) Where do you dig at the base of a tree–without knowing what side to dig on–it becomes a 360 degree dig, (4) The word choice of
You can still hear the honking
would seem to create an important distinction between seeing the geese and hearing them that I cannot shake.  Some of my original conclusions may still be right.  But how does one get around this problem?
If we take
Near
to mean in close proximity to the Planetarium as opposed to right next to the planetarium vestibule, then the
Near men with windrose
becomes a “You’re getting warm…” type of clue.
If we center the goose pen and keep the goose pen at our back, we no longer see it but you can hear it.  This perspective will open up many other possible tree locations in the area.  Not only that but keeping the goose pen at our back–it will tell you where along that base of that tree you should dig when you find the right one.  In this view, we’re not eliminating trees, but it could be helpful in finding a palm that fits this idea and I have one in mind……
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2469791660064740493drBoEx?vhost=good-times
This tree always impresses me each time I see it–its tall and straight and reminds me of the P6 tree.  It sits isolated just a short ways behind the planetarium and it would have been behind the goose pen as well as you move south.

One problem is they lost a bunch of other palms in this area during recent hurricanes.

Nice work Stercox (and everyone else too)!  Sawdusty, you are being a huge help!   :app)
I still plan on taking my family to St. Augustine in a couple of months (probably mid-June).  Unfortunately, Siskel will not be able to make the trip.  I am reading and absorbing everything, though, to prepare.  I will put my 2 cents in when I think I have something to contribute.  It would be wonderful to meet any of you while I am there.
All of this assumes, of course, that the treasure will not be found before then!   😉
Reading the verse, it seems to me that the exact location of the treasure is “behind bending branches and a green picket fence, at the base of a tall tree.”  With so many people talking about different locations, things moving, trees not being there anymore, etc., it is difficult to figure out if there is an exact spot that phrase in quotes describes.  Sawdusty and Stercox (or anyone else) — is there such a spot?

Egbert-
Here is such a spot…
just inside of Magnolia Avenue.
http://family.webshots.com/photo/200402 … 0493SRSlSE
And this corner is across the street from the Men’s Rest Room
(not saying that that is what the verse means, but it is a fact)
And to get to this spot, without jumping the fence,
one would have to pass all of the approriate landmarks
(get to the end of the other side of the picket fence)
and then double back to the Magnolia street wall.
and here is the view from the planetarium looking at the fence corner
and the wall and magnolia and the bedning branches
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27 … 0493QYfvXe

Can someone tell us what the street name is that is perpendicular to Magnolia Street
(parallel to the picket fence that takes you into the park) ?
http://family.webshots.com/photo/283765 … 0493UOGQqw
(and leads you to the old palm avenue

“like moonlight in teardrops”
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 … 0493ZorICN
This wall, the material, the many many small tiny shells reflecting the sunlight,
I think this is what he is referring to with this mysterious phrase.
Teardrops being very very small oval salty drops and
the moonlight being the silvery reflections.
So, if this is the case, we have in the planetarium grounds, the inside NW corner
where the coquia wall meets the green picket fence…under the magnolia trees
and in besides the tall grass.
And the image six (like in Cleveland) does have the jewel imbedded in stone.

Don’t think there is a name for the road running along the green picket fence. It is just takes you to the exit to the park. I like the picture of the planetarium and the tabby wall (man-made coquina) It is like a big moon rising over the wall. Be glad to have Egbert come to visit the Fountain, the more eyes the better! Hope to see you while you are here.

Hello Everyone!  Been off the board this week–had to get caught up at work.  Are we having fun yet?   I hope at this point that there are very few doubters that BP came to the FOY park and buried a ceramic pot 3 feet under the ground there. Reading through all the great ideas and thoughts here–the first thing that struck me is…
…the place to dig should be the east side of the planetarium entrance rather than the west side…but my pick for “most likely spot” is, at the moment, directly under her
…in my mind, be an ideal spot.  Standing at a very prominent spot in the park (PDL statue) and looking away, one sees a lone palm tree…I like either this statue or around the obelisk
…without losing this orientation, and you hit the green picket fence.  Turn around and that is your tall tree… And this location behind the fountain, has enough room between the base of the fountain and the east side of the tree, for a hole.
I’d put it right behind the wall to the left of the Ponce statue.
I like the tree on the right, but the one on the left would do as well…Could be that tree, or it could be Ponce…
…the owner of the park, his pet theories are at the Indian Statue, at the Seloy marker, or against the wall of the park near the planetarium
For me, I think it might be at the big magnolia tree just inside the picket fence near the planetarium.
…then I would look for the casque between the base of the tall tree and the low tabby wall…I would be near the base of the scraggly trees by the tabby wall…A first alternate would be just south of the fence position
Who said, “Great minds think alike”??
It seems the closer you get, the tougher it gets.  If we are persistent, smart and maybe a little lucky this one can be found–I am sure of it!  We have a lot going in our favor.  The park has not changed that much in nearly 25 years.  We have a definite P and V match up, with certainty.  We have identified much of the confirmers in the verse (save the last cryptic stanza).  We can dig there, albeit quietly.  We have Sawdusty to recon and check things out (when possible).  We have all your brilliant minds working on it.   This can be done!!  WE’re due!  I have had many of the same ideas that you have had at some point or another in looking at this, some I dismissed–not because they are wrong–but because I thought I found something better at the time.   First if there are pictures that you feel need to be a part of the webshot album, email them to me and I will add them, so we have a centralized database of images for future reference.  Also, the best map of this park right now is probably the aerial view I created a couple days ago.  There is no better map.  I will also update that as new information comes to light.   Now to dig in…

Unknown

Unknown:
Here is such a spot…So, if this is the case, we have in the planetarium grounds, the inside NW corner
where the coquia wall meets the green picket fence…under the magnolia trees
and in besides the tall grass.

Unknown

Unknown:
Can someone tell us what the street name is that is perpendicular to Magnolia Street
(parallel to the picket fence that takes you into the park) ?

Trohn,
This NW corner would be really suspect I think for two reasons:  (1) Not out of view of the goose pen (although admittedly–I could be making too much of BP’s choice of wording hear vs see in the verse)  (2) That NW corner is where the electric comes into the park, its underground and exactly from that corner to the planetarium per the owner.  We had to find out about the underground lines before we dug near the planetarium.   Now if I remember right, the owner told us that they had trenched the area they were going to lay the power lines in–This was done a [few] years back, I believe well after 1980-81.  So the power lines were not there in BP’s time–but they are now.  And there would be trenching in that area which would be really bad for us if the casque is there and disrupted.  Plus it would be ill advised to dig there now.  I do like the fact that you are finally up near the planetarium though.   😉
Like S’dusty said–this road is really an exit drive out of the park, it is on park property.  Everything behind the coquina wall running along Magnolia Avenue (which is most of Magnolia avenue) is on the park proper.  This wall on Magnolia avenue is the park’s west boundry.

Unknown

Unknown:
Perhaps the shape of the rock in the image is a design on the wall of the planetarium and further narrows down the search location to being in front of it.  The picture in the webshots album “P6 V9 St. Augustine” that is titled “Stars move by day” has one such design about 4/5 of the way up that could be interpruted to be the rock.  Perhaps you find the design and orient yourself so that you see a tree (palm?) in the distance that lines up as in the image.

2fast–
I thought about this on our second trip down.  I took a bunch of pictures of the outside walls and looked them over and over and really did not find anything conclusive.  You will be glad to know that the owner has also thought about this idea as well and we talked about it at the dig.  Which brings us to back to the utility of the rock–tree combo and how do we interpret this image.  Should we take it to mean we are looking for that tree pictured?  Or is it an artistic symbol of Florida?  Are we looking for an alignment of water, rock and tree??  I did have a theory that the fountain in front of the planetarium could be the source of the water.  But how does that all fit in?

Unknown

Unknown:
One thing I noticed, the ‘small marker’
(photo 117 of the FOY tour) looks exactly
(and the same angle) of the ‘island rock’ with palm tree.
(even the shadows match up)

We took that picture of the small marker trying to make it fit the rock–tree image, because the look of the small marker reminded us of the rock as well.  This is way out by the coast.  There was nothing in the verse that confirmed this area and we eventually, let it go.  As I understand it S’dusty has taken the more angled picture at the 11:00 position of this small marker with the tree–so we’ll see what that looks like.  Again do we worry about the water?

Unknown

Unknown:
Maybe you could follow the banner the conquistador is holding as if it were a path, and the jewel will be at the end of it….or perhaps where the bottom of the flagpole rests–use it as a pointer and the jewel will be roughly where it is in relation to that?

Unknown

Unknown:
I too think that we are missing an important piece to the puzzle which (in my humble opinion) is hidden in the large rock of P6.

Shecrab & Fox–
I agree.   I have always thought that Ponce’s position, the flag, that he is elevated (albeit on a horse), that the pole, the obelisk symbol lining up right where the obelisk is, the  image of the flag flailing out like the path does running south along the coastline toward the small marker just screams that there is a map here and the jewel is pictured where it will be found.  If that asumption is true–then the westside of the park is mapped out in the big rock.  Now I’ve always felt the big rock is subject to interpretation—like one of those psychological ink blot tests they give people
—“And what do you see now?”–
that’s it—the “Rorschach Rock”!!
But on this third visit a new little theory started to be developed–mostly based on the owner’s interpretation of the rock imagery.  It is possible that the big rock is a
symbolic map
of the park.  Meaning, there are images in there that symbolize the things in the buildings.  Examples would be the stone cross found in the Springhouse, or the head dress on the chief, or the silhouette of an indian grave, or the dome of the planetarium–all of which an argument can be made that these images are in the Rorschach Rock.   The images are loose and still subject to interpretation–but a symbolic map may be the ticket–and the jewel is the literal “X marks the spot”.

Unknown

Unknown:
I wonder if the place to dig should be the east side of the planetarium entrance rather than the west side. The verse says Near men with wind rose, not Near wind rose with men. Geese are loud critters; you might still hear them even if you were on the opposite side of the building from them. There’s a tree over there, too, and it’s still standing.

Forest–
After about the 100th root we hit with our shovels–obviously other thoughts start entering your mind–right after the one– “We’re not gonna find it”–you’ve been there–you know what I mean.  We did consider the other side.  I don’t know if I agree that its under Bitsy–and I’m not sure we could dig there any more than we could dig near powerlines–maybe even more so.  But I do like the Magnolia tree on the east side–it does fit the verse nicely and is isolated due to its proximity to the planetarium vestibule.  [Did I say, I hate roots.]  I’m in the process of dumping my pre-conceived notions and taking a step back–maybe some counseling or hypnosis will help.
I really did like the west side because I felt the verse
You can still hear the honking
created an extraordinary line that when crossed moved you from seeing to hearing.  I will say that there are areas around that original oak tree that still fit my original theory but have not been dug yet.  And certainly eastside is a hot alternate!

Unknown

Unknown:
Can the verse be used as a guided walk through the park (like in Houston)
and make one pass the goose pen to get to the final location??

I could never make it work either.

Unknown

Unknown:
Can someone tell me if there is a green fence to the north and east of Ponce,
on the way to the obelisk but to the left??

There is a fence that possibly ran from the gift shop all the way down to the coast that was at least in part a picket fence.  It would have been green like the others.  Sawdusty checked this out and I think that Pine also saw this same fence on his trip.  It would nearly run the entire length of the North border of the park but is found in very heavy brush.  Sawdusty is going to verify this with the owner.  Do you remember it Pine??  If it gets confirmed–I’ll add it to the aerial map.

Unknown

Unknown:
haven’t figured out why he is depicted on a horse,
unless it is part of the mythical global puzzle…

It never bothered me.  There are a lot of things in the images from Cleveland and Chicago that were in there as part of artistic composition only and really didn’t contribute to finding it.  I did think that the horse
elevated
Ponce (as he appears that way in his statue).  The bigger question is—How important is it in this hunt to consider the direction Ponce is looking?  He is facing North or left in P6 using the flag and pole visual match up with the park’s pathways as a directional.  What I find more interesting in P6,  is he is looking down–down into a deep hole.   Does it mean anything?  Just soley based on this part of the picture, one could make an argument to dig around North or left of the Ponce statue (but I never felt that this uses all the clues available in the verse or even within the P6).  Maybe it means, when we find the right tree, we should dig North or left (after all “at the base of a tree” is really a 360 degree dig).  Maybe its all about artistic composition afterall??

Unknown

Unknown:
…fence shown on the Archaeological Site Map and I’m obviously hoping this fence was green.  This fence stretched roughly east-west, just south of the low enclosure, and some trees and bushes are evident in the overhead view.

Pine–
I remember asking about that very fence with one of the staff old timers–I thought he told me that it never ran that direction that he knew of,  although it is on the archeological site map that way.  I also found out that they have had many fences out there and they keep getting blown out to sea during hurricanes.  Maybe Sawdusty can verify the fence seen on the archeological map for us.
My original thoughts were much more in line with yours–meaning, its out near the coastline–but then two things drug me back toward the west side of the park–the wind rose find and the goose pen.  It seemed to me that most of the verse clues kept taking me back to the main park area.  Good thing is–if we play our cards right–we should be able to check out most theories, east park or west park.

Nice trohn.  Like that too.
Even in darkness!

Unknown

Unknown:
Near men —->  could be referring to the two statues at this part o the park
(Ponde and the Chief)
With wind rose —>  (besides the obvious reference to the explorers)
I think I read/saw someone post that the duck/goose pond is
in this shape.
This would absolutely narrow the searching area, if true.

A couple years ago, when researching what was available to look at on-line, I thought the same thing.  But when we got there I did not feel that the duck pond looked at all like a wind rose.  It does appear to be like one on the park’s yellow map they sent me, but in reality the duck pond has only three squiggly arms radiating from the center, not 4, to represent the cardinal directional positions (it may be difficult to see that from the pictures).  It would have to be a Salvador Dali interpretation to really meet the elements for a wind rose.  And when I found the “wind rose”  the statues became less of a factor for me.  I still believe, and its my humble opinion, that using the constructs given to find the previous casques (that is, the picture gets you to the park, the verse gets you to the casque site, and verse tells you where to dig with a visual confirmer from the picture [the wall pictured for Cleveland, the fence and fixture pictured for Chicago]) that at the very least, we should be looking in the west part of the park.  Nearly all the verse identifiers are in this part of the park–but what is the final visual confirmer?  The tree?  The rock–tree–water combo??  Surely others could be right—the obelisk symbol and the Ponce statue make a very convincing final visual confirmer for another area of the park but the verse clues lose their punch for these areas.  I guess the good thing is all are in play and that together we should decide clearly on our hot spots for the next opportunity to dig.

Unknown

Unknown:
There may be something, something that may be at the base of a tree that
the casque could be buried in.  Can’t see BP reducing his hands to bloody stumps
digging under a tree (through roots) to hide a casque.  Unless, the tree doesn’t have roots.

Boogie–
This is one of the reasons that I had HOPED for a palm tree–I think that the dig would have been much easier.  And I’ll say the same for future digs–but I don’t know if isolating ourselves to palm trees is the right thing to do.  There are not much in the way of planters–and certainly nothing permanent (like that found on the backside of the wall in Cleveland).

stercox – the reason I asked about the root-ball of a palm tree earlier was because BP would have had just as much trouble digging around an oak as you did. If it is buried at the base of a tall tree, and there are lots of palms around,
ceteris paribus
it is more likely to be under a palm tree. Also, I would be more inclined to describe a plam as a “tall tree” than an oak or a magnolia, whose width tends to obscure their height.
Not to mention there is a palm tree – with what looks like a line drawn from its trunk the ground beside it – in P6.

Unknown

Unknown:
#42 of 117..
is that Trohn’s stone tablet thingy behind the palm tree in this pic?  if not, what is it?  an oddly shaped white thing next to a palm tree is intriguing.

Fox–
That white object is a garbage dumpster.

Unknown

Unknown:
If I were putting on a treasure hunt similar to this…. #89 of 117 would, in my mind, be an ideal spot.  Standing at a very prominent spot in the park (PDL statue) and looking away, one sees a lone palm tree.  Things by themselves seem to stand out much more than one of many.

Fox–
I loved that isolated palm myself, even probed around it a bit, just to check it out on my first visit.  I don’t think we would be allowed to dig out there though–its in the middle of the archeological dig sites.  BTW the archeologists are there quite often during the warmer months.  When they are there–we will likely be prohibited to dig anywhere in the park.  At least it was that way previously–we’d have to check with the owner.

Also, the reason for the flag may be a simple reference to the historical fact that Ponce claimed “La Florida” for Spain in what is now St. Augustine. It is Ponce “planting a flag” for Spain, which nails St. Augustine as the location for the P6 casque.
2¢

I just learned about that last semester, the cask IS a container of wine, and some dude leads Fortunado into the cellar and “buries” him alive in a brick wall.
-regulus

Montressor.
“For the Love of God, Montressor…” was popular graffiti on the bottom of any brick wall around our campus back in the 60’s.
ck

Tell me all about FOY park starting with what it stands for. Why do you think this is the place.
Assumeing their is some good ideas in this front I think this or Ponce De Leon Park could be the location.

im not to sure about sand key park
as it was not open to the public in 82 ie
http://www.pinellascounty.org/park/15_sand_key.htm
when i lived in tampa, clearwater and st. pete were
fav places and severl times we were ran off sand key
i moved from tampa in 83 and it was not a public acsses
then, there are a cople of beaches in st pete that sorta
fit the pic. ill check into it if i find anything ill post

scottrocks7

Tell me all about FOY park starting with what it stands for. Why do you think this is the place.
Assumeing their is some good ideas in this front I think this or Ponce De Leon Park could be the location.

FOY stands for Fountain of Youth.

and that is about as solid as they come. perhaps a little back reading scott

Answering my own question here. I’ve been thinking about how Preiss would’ve expected us to know about the Keats reference. Probably it was in some collected book of poems or a biography source that wouldn’t have been too difficult to acquire like the Abroad in America book, published in 1976. The first line, “The first chapter,” really does the work of suggesting “find something that’s written,” and literally we find something that says “writ in water”. The task then is to figure out all the reasons why Preiss selected that source and what we’re intended to do with it.

I believe Mark Parry is the moderator, who is the person who started this website.  Sorry, I thought everyone had access to it.  It looks like you can automatically subscribe by clicking this link:
[email protected]
If you are still having problems, I can probably post the pics in this thread.  Also, if anyone else is having a problem getting to the pics, please let me know.  Thanks.

Egbert

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/armchair_treasure_hunting/files/St.%20Augustine/
“Your membership in the group armchair_treasure_hunting is still pending. You will be able to access this page once the moderator has approved your membership. “

Eg, do you know who is the group’s moderator? I can’t see the pics because I’m not member

WhiteRabbit

OK, I’ve been taking your advice and trying to spot any significance in the overall image. It’s a horse on a hill.
I agree it fits FOY perfectly, water and all. But it’s a curious phrase, and its resemblance to Keats’ epitaph warrants a closer look.
I was remembering another of Keats’ most famous poems, “Ode to a Nightingale”, thought to have been written at a historic pub called Spaniards Inn. It refers to the Hippocrene, a fountain struck open by Pegasus on Mount Helicon. (The name means “horse’s fountain”.)
…if it is the hydrant, it’s both prominent and neatly disguised, and ties in with the overall fountain theme.
Mind you don’t hit a main.  😉

.
Spare focus from FOY for a moment and consider the meaning of “wind rose” in connection to the Keats-centric view.  Ode to a Nightengale.  Gale = wind.  Rose = flower = Florence.
Florence Nightengale’s rose is a reference to a statistical pie chart.  The wind rose is associated with meteorological use.  The lady of the lamp is associated with nursing, but also with the role of women in the time of war, which is the central premise to the founding of the Daughter’s of the American Revolution.  The “first chapter” of DAR was founded in the state of Washington.
Shouldn’t we focus on WA and something associated with meteorology?  Rain falls…
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?Di … le_Id=7704
perhaps?
Maybe the woman in the white dress in image 12 is a “white whale”?

I think this is our iconic image in image 12:
The path will take us to the area near the “green” picket fence, where “green” is being used to connote “army”.

I’m not sure of the current status of this hunt and this post may be for naught-I’m just getting off of the Dar train and decided to have a look at The Secret.  The Florida pic/verse intrigues me simply because I live there.  I’ve spent the past few days reading most of what has been found regarding p-6/v-9.  It certainly appears that this casque is in the FOY park.
I know there is some mystery involving the rock and the palm tree and also the fact that the rock is reflected and the palm is not.
While reading this thread, I liked Trohn’s post on page 16 regarding the ‘shell fountain’.  While looking  at the link to the picture he posted(#75 of 133 in Stercox’ album)… The first thing I noticed was the
reflection
in the water of the fountain and behind it to the right is what looks like a tall palm tree.
Perhaps the rock and tree in p-6 are simply showing us that the ‘base of the tree’ we’re looking for can be seen at that same angle behind a “reflection”.
I know there are other fountains in the park which I’m sure also ‘reflect’ but I’m not sure if you can see a tall palm at the same angle as the one in pic 75..?
It looks as if you could be at such an angle to see the relection in the fountain water and that palm tree is right where it should be in accordance with p-6.

slappybuns

i like that browning poem there too for years pass

Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls
Years pass – my life with them shall pass
And soon, the cricket in the grass
Years pass, reign falls
1714, end of the War of the Spanish Succession. “As a result, Philip V remained King of Spain but was removed from the French line of succession.”
1 – A
7 – G
14 – N
Silver nitride.  😉
Long steel grass
The white soldiers pass
The light is braying like an ass
See the tall Spanish jade
With hair black as night-shade
(Edith Sitwell)

cobock, i’ve been thinking u might have something with your idea and your canoe.  if that is the basillica in the pic on p. 204 and 205, he writes (1st line, p. 204): RANGE:  From coast to coast and several hundred yards off shore—-….

St Augustine Florida  Fountain of Youth Archeological Park
P6 + V9
The first chapter
This appears on the left hand page of the “book” sign on their front gate
Written in water
refers to The Fountain of Youth history
Near men
With wind rose
A little tougher–There are two statues on the property one of the Timucuan Chief and one of Ponce de Leon.  There is a Goose/Duck pond that splits them (on the park’s yellow site map, the duck pond looks like a wind rose).   In real life, it might be a stretch.  There is also a wind rose exhibit there near a Spanish ship model with miniature Spaniards on it.  There is tile near the Spring House that is a wind rose pattern and inside life size models of the indians and Ponce.
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
The branches may refer to the archway of trees just outside the park entrance or may refer to  trees further back in the property near the Ponce statue heading back toward the monument (which is monolithic in shape).  There has been a fence near monument off and on through the years, as it often get blown out to see.  On the archeological site map the fence is depicted running east-west, most of the time the fence run arond that backside curve of the monument.  There is also a wooden fence near the entrance to the park that has been there longstanding and “has always been green” to some of the employee’s recollections.
At the base of a tall tree
Here is the kicker–There are many tall palms, locating the right palm is (to me) the remaining mystery.  I think that the final clue to this is how the rock and the tree line up in the bottom of P6.  The rock is in the water (and reflected there) the tree is not reflected and indicates that it is some distance behind the rock.  There is an angled line between the rock and tree (you will need an original book picture to see this + a mag lense, but it is there).  I do not think that its a random mark, but tells where to dig if the alignment is right.  Unfornately, they dredge the coastline every 12 years and dump anything heavy along it (parts of walls, bricks, rocks etc) to help prevent erosion.  It is the only area of the park with significant water and I think the clues lead us out to that area beyond the monument.  22 years later–its gone.

You can still hear the honking
There is a duck/goose pond at the park.  The reference to “you can still…”  seems to indicate some distance from the pond.  Again, I think this puts it out near the coastline.
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
There are exhibit markers.  One talks about how shell & limestone are fixed together to create “Coquina”  which is what much of the buildings and monuments in St Augustine are made from.  One exhibit is a Silver salt cellar, actually found near Ponce de Leon’s marker near the Fountain of Youth.  It is displayed in the Spring house.   However the sign has recently been taken down,  I supplied a sign on line for this.
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
There is a planetarium at the park. They run a celestrial navigation program inside that simulates you being on a Spanish ship at night and how Ponce would have used the stars to navigate his way to the new world.
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
This line is a mystery to me.  He may be referring to all the small white lights that light up St Augustine at night, or the bridge lights that can be seen from the end of the park over the marshy coastland.  Or it may be a simile for moonlight (big white shiny rock) in teardrops (salty water=ocean), like that depicted in P6, the final part of the clue.
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.
At the coast line is a heavy protected marshland, there is nothing there but tall grass, much like that depicted in the flowers in P6.  Nothing is changing out in this area or has changed for years.
Pictures attached http://community.webshots.com/user/stercox

I think that the verse leads you down to the east part of the park near the water’s edge,  the flag acts as a map following the old retaining wall around the outside of the monument to a place where you would be able to see the rock in the water seen in P6.  When you align the rock and the tree, there is an angled line down from the tree that would indicate where to dig (you need an original book to see this).  So much of this area has changed over 20 years.  Every 12 years they dredge the marsh area shoving up debris and dumping in bricks, stone, and other junk to help prevent erosion.  The old retaining wall has fallen off into the sea due to erosion.  If I’m right about the rock/tree alignment then the rock is gone.  There a lot of tall palms in the park, at least a dozen down in that end.  But which one.  Many have been lost to hurricanes.  The real disappointment of the trip was that even if everything looked perfect–They will NOT let you dig there EVER.   If I’m right about this place–I fear that the casque is not recoverable.   All the employees there were very helpful and I am still corresponding with them to see if we can dig up any information or old pictures of this area from the early 1980s.  I have alot of pictures of the area that I am still going over.  There is a lot of vague imagery in the big black rock that doesn’t fit anything.  What do you all think???

Cormac

Also in the pic is a couple piles of rocks

and a tall tree

erexere

Can anyone confirm that the entrance to FOY had “The First Chapter” written on it in the 80s?

I do remember that being confirmed years ago and with a posted photo. I am sure its buried on a thread here.

I will certainly take a camera, and look at the wall and everything else.  Someone will have to tell me how to upload the pics, though.

Send it to my e-mail…

Unknown

Unknown:
“Stars pass by day” could definitely be the planetarium near the site, but what do people make of “Sails pass by night?”

Well, the obvious would be the sails of sailboats or large masted ships.  Like 2 ships in the night?  Now, thinking outside of the box…..alternative definitions of sail:
3. A wing; a van. [Poetic]
Like an eagle soaring To weather his broad sails. –Spenser.
4. The extended surface of the arm of a windmill.
-wings in the night?  vans in the night….?…..ie delivery vans making their rounds as the city sleeps?
-back to our favorite windmills
…. but why in the night?
& even more outside of the box…..SALE:
The exchange of goods or services for an amount of money or its equivalent; the act of selling.
An instance of selling.
An opportunity for selling or being sold; demand.
Availability for purchase: a store where pets are for sale.
A selling of property to the highest bidder; an auction.
A special disposal of goods at lowered prices: coats on sale this week.
sales
Activities involved in selling goods or services.
Gross receipts.
what that has to do with passing in the night is beyond me…Wall Street?

kulaid813

Ok, so I’ve been researching the FoY key location for a few months now. I’ve been to the park twice for reconnaissance and to probe a few spots. I know that I’m very close to at least discovering it’s location even though it’s going to be tough to get permission to dig at this point. That all being said, I’d like to post a few clues that I believe I’ve solved but have not yet seen on this blog. (I may have just missed them.) First, a lot of people are saying that the checkered pattern on Ponce’s shirt corresponds with the wall across the street at the HoJo, however I found something that it matches better. The bottom of the Traverse Board (Wind-Rose). In fact the full color scheme of the Traverse Board marches the full color scheme of Ponce and his horse meaning that Ponce and his horse are there to guide you to the exact location of the “treasure”.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/85503068@ … 0101206893

Good work Kulaid813. I believe the checkered pattern at the bottom of the Wind-Rose has been mentioned. However, I do not recall Ponce’s reins being linked. It’s a good match. Keep posting updates on your progress.

Near men
In the sense that ‘near’ means ‘almost, but not exactly’, aren’t pigs something like 98% genetically similar to humans?

In my view the first two lines are most important in each of the verses for limiting our focus to a specific region.
The first chapter, has a broad meaning.  Some words on a sign in front of FOY is not a generalized enough focus.  I think it makes more sense to say it could be applied to any founding of an organization, consisting of chapters, wherever that first chapter relates is a good place to start.  I’ve selected the Daughters of the American Revolution, Washington Chapter is their first.  That is in effect saying ANYWHERE in the region of Washington.
Written in water, is sufficiently close to ‘writ in water’ words upon gravesite of Keats, is in essence a message of mourning, an epitaph, words after life.  Consider the meaning and surmise the merging of message and afterlife: Hermes in Greek or Mercury in Roman.
Mercury (pron.: /ˈmɜrkjʉri/; Latin: Mercurius  listen (help·info)) was a major Roman god, being one of the Dii Consentes. He was the patron god of financial gain, commerce, eloquence (and thus poetry), messages/communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery and thieves; he was also the guide of souls to the underworld.
Consider the meaning of ‘like moonlight in teardrops’, as a clue about a wolf’s crying at the moon and the line which fits the description of a silver bullet as a folklore reference to the werewolf.
Werewoles are killed by silver bullets, silver in general, but also by the liquid metal known as quicksilver aka mercury.
In terms of word exactness, mercurial or quicksilver is having to do with describing something or somebody as wandering or erratic.
The plaque I’ve found by DotAR upon the large glacial (water) erratic (Mercury) on San Juan Island fits this idea.
I mentioned near men as a clue about pigs.  I mentioned a clue about wolves.  I’m working with mythology, folklore, and now a childrens story, the three little pigs and the big bad wolf.
With wind…  …or I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house in.  The Three Little Pigs is a story about a standoff.  The Pig War is a historical standoff between US and Britain.  I like the parallel.
I have no idea where to go with this yet.  Its very playful interpretively.  More later.
Suffice it to say I’m dead set on the verse limiting our perspective to a few options:
1st object: Goose Island
2nd object: Lighthouse, Radio Antenna – navigation in total darkness
3rd object: Robert’s Redoubt – Glacial Erratic, Plaque to Robert by First Chapter of the Daugthers of American Revolution
The picket fence and the flagpole.
I’ve drawn lines 1-3 to represent a map reading to each of these objects from the flagpole.  I believe it’s most logical to dig at the fence.  The question is, which side of the fence?  Am I correct in considering that ‘behind’ means ‘inside’ the fenced area?
Option 3, the rock is the nearest object, but not being there I can’t say for sure which is most easily sited.  I don’t think using a map to pinpoint is a good idea.  standing at the exact spot along the fence where the flagpole and the large redoubt rock, if in view, seems to make the most sense.  It’s easiest that way.
Those of you who are entertained by my far out theories might notice that I’m finding new ground and dispensing with older theories and complicated ways of finding a spot.  Specifically, I’m abandoning the Florence Nightengale – Hospital building idea, the Pickett Memorial (moved from the Redoubt to the parking area of the visitors center after 1981), and the middle of the nearby orchard remnant between four trees.
I think the word ‘rose’ is meant as ‘rise’ for a flag (stars move by day) rising on it’s mast.  A simple line of two objects on opposite sides of the fence is sufficient to locate a spot.  I say dig at the inside side of the picket fence.
I can still hear the honking
I really like the Goose Island that this may reference, because Geese do honk as shecrab correctly pointed out.
Another option is the Bugle, which etymologically points out a reference to the cow or ox, I’m very interested in the Cattle Point Lighthouse, which is perfectly matched to the illustration of the doorway in the leftmost window panel in image 12.
So, I guess options 1 and 2 are somewhat in conflict.  Perhaps I should see this as just two rather than three options.  Since both Goose Island and Cattle Point are very distance objects, perhaps it’s not a factor whether I choose one or the other, since their use as clues may only be to tell us to look for something in that general direction, more specifically the nearby Redoubt Rock memorial.

I wish we could find someone willing to try digging at this place – I bet we could locate this one now. The only people I hear from attempt places like Houston and Charleston which are far more difficult.

erexere

The first chapter, has a broad meaning.  Some words on a sign in front of FOY is not a generalized enough focus.

Remember that only two casques have been found, and one was as a direct result of identifying three words on a sign. Words on signs are always worth watching out for.

Thanks Boogie–
I already drank from the fountain and it made me a girl….

Stercox, I always thought you were a man too (I guess it was the avatar)!  Well, loads of luck!
Quite coincidentally, my wife made plans for a family vacation in St. Augustine in several weeks, so I was going to check out the area myself.  I was also going to try and convince Siskel and his family to join us.  I guess we will either be visiting the site where Stercox found a casque, or will have a good time digging with our kids.
I am very excited for you!  If for some reason you do not find it, it would be appreciated if you could share your latest thought processes afterwards.

Thanks for the update Stercox.
I know you have been working this angle for a while.
Years pass, rains fall, casques hide.

Unknown

Unknown:
it would be appreciated if you could share your latest thought processes afterwards.

Sir Eg,
It’s really your fault that I got started into this mess–reading the Plain Dealer one day and saw a lawyer in a pink shirt looking mighty happy— BTW–Thanks.
Plan on it.  Sounds like I need to change my avatar though–I just picked one that was handy at the time I registered–it had a fat face with glasses (like me) and was a type of digging animal–go figure.

Stercox,
just reread your documentation from 2005
and reviewed your photos.
On the ‘yellow map’ there is only one
depiction of a fence and that is between
the gift shop and the ticket booth.
just to the left of the spring.
and you confirmed that that has always been green.
good luck and I will see if I can spot anything for you

Sign beside cannon…
Like moonlight in teardrops
OK, so forget the chemistry – this is probably about magnolia.
“Moonlight and magnolia” is a cliche taken from Gone with the Wind…
http://greenespace.blogspot.com/2008/05 … t-and.html
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p … 20magnolia
A teardrop is a type of bouquet. Here’s an example of a magnolia one.
Teardrop bouquet
In terms of paint colours, the sky is
magnolia
central.

AND

My wife and I will be making another trip to St. Augustine again. We go at least twice a year (we live close by) and always take our copy of The Secret with us. We even kayaked out to shoreline around the park and got stuck in the mud there. I have considered magnolia street being the tree mentioned in the poem, but I’m not sure if I ever noticed the cannon at the end of it. I certainly never noticed that the shoreline and position of magnolia matched that of the small rock and tree in the water. I only ever noticed that the large rock matched that of the face-like shoreline (like everyone else here). I don’t see why he wouldn’t have used the same type of clue twice in the same painting. We’ll be going to saint augustine for an extended weekend in a month or two. We’ll be sure to check out that area, take lots of pics, evaluate everything that we can.
BTW, I have found the image of a cannon in the painting before, but I’m not seeing it right now. I’ll have to dig out my notes and get back to you guys on that one.

that is good news cobock1!  can’t wait to see the pictures!  you are like a blast of spring air! good luck!  and check behind ponce de leon down by the shore too, okay?

Hey cobock1, excellent news. I recently tried contacting FOY about this. (Just sent you an email on the address in your profile.)

Unknown

Unknown:
His colleague Shalema K. McGhee wrote, “While we have lost a friend and a leader in Byron, he spent more than half of his life building these companies. Once we have had some time to deal with the loss, we will move forward as he would have wanted.”
Preiss had numerous projects in the works at the time of his death and had been scheduled for many meetings and panels at Comic-Con International: San Diego July 13-17. McGee said that all appointments would remain as scheduled, with Maureen McTigue handling the meetings. Her number is (212) 645-9870, XT 242.
http://www.cbgxtra.com/comics-news-and- … ron-preiss

ive always wondered if the person was one of these ladies

don’t forget the planetarium looks like that from above too!
the obelisk:
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM42 … gustine_FL
from stercox’s album:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 … 0493ZorICN
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 … 0493xCgZsF
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 … 0493jDJLJh
he has this pole right at the ticket booth which is near the train station and the parking lot…honking?
the shape of the squiggly lines under the gem in the image?:
t
he duck and goose pond———-this looks like the squiggly lines
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 … 0493ONVRAt
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 … 0493AmpdBy
or these:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 … 0493hMaSmh
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 … 0493izKsqH
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 … 0493qzPJfr
doesn’t this look like the tree?
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 … 0493RnGzaK
isn’t Easter decided by the moon? and the tears “Jesus wept”
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 … 0493yoQUBE
but it looks like ponce has a circle and a square too, and a pole:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 … 0493OYLOoL
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 … 0493zsQoic
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 … 0493fGFMhb
s
tercox’s map with the green picket fences:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 … 0493UGsSsv
looks like the
seloy
marker and
springhouse
are straight up from the parking lot and the green picket fence, right around there
which would make sense for “years pass, rain falls”, close to the real fountain of youth
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 … 0493BNCqVC
also wanted to mention these urns, as they mention
300 years
and they catch the
rain fall,
plus keats’grave “
written in water
” and he wrote “
ode to a grecian urn”
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/28 … 0493ZSVEDk
guess i shoulda just said check out stercox’s album  🙂

Just a follow-up thought on the horse. The bell-shape or cascabel at the back of a cannon is for attaching ropes (to control the recoil), which drew my attention to the horse’s muzzle.
Here’s the hydrant and cannon:
If we say the flag circle is the hydrant, and the horse’s muzzle is the cannon, that might put the casque (which means “helmet”) by the wall. (It has a Sapphire glint to it.)
Here’s another pic of the wall to illustrate what I meant about the curving shape being suggested in different parts of this image.
I like the idea of one of those separating pillars as it would provide a precise spot. Midway between the cannon and the hydrant as shown above looks like the last one. Needs more corroboration though.
Wall peaks represented by facial features. Below the eyebrow…? Brow of a hill…?
There’s a kind of parallel in the position of the flag symbol relative to the face.
I currently interpret all this as a close-up clue for the wall though.
The Hadas of Iberia
Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower
(Those two final green stems, under the final rocky bump, at the bottom right of the pic, right of the cross shown above. An 11…? 11 pillars…? Or perhaps suggesting the shape of the dividing column; example shown below it.)
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls
The last line has been interpreted as a cryptic reference to FOY. (Youth being the years that pass, the fountain the rain that falls.)
Taking the grassy wall in the image as the outside of FOY, then FOY lies over the tall grass; over the wall.

There you go! Good find. I had considered the hydrant for the rain/water reference, but dismissed it. But looking at that hydrant from the top it is unmistakably similar to the image on the flag. I was still assuming that the image on the flag must be indicating the obelisk marker in the FOY park, but  I don’t know how right that is. Its definitely one of the only obviously unusual shapes in the painting. The two that have been solved had these types of unusual shapes in them. In the Grant Park one there is the image of the the fence posts that showed where to dig. Why couldn’t the clue in this image lead us to an area with a fire hydrant? I’m glad there is someone else looking outside of the box, or the FOY park. In the newspaper article about the first casque that was found it says that BP went into grant park early in the morning dressed like a worker, or something. I doubt he went into the FOY park during the day and started digging, and I doubt he hopped the fence during the evening or early morning. This was a privately owned attraction even in the 70s and 80s. That’s why I’ve always had a hard time swallowing the idea that it’s buried in FOY, but right outside of it, in an area like this. I’d believe that.

the image (the whole image 6) is the same shape as the park
so where the gem is in the image, shouldn’t that be where it is in the park?
so if the flag is the obelisk, you’d go straight down to it (the gem), (i think)
image 6–same shape as this (the whole thing):
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 … 0493UGsSsv
looking closely at the image, i  see  two ducks slanted diagonally to the right, right above the gem, do you guys see it? i really really do see ducks
i see two brown ducks right above the gem  and to the right, i see beaks and everything, and normally i wouldn’t have said i see stuff in the rocks, except that the duck pond is close to the seloy marker and those squiggly lines under the gem look like the duck pond!
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 … 0493ONVRAt
i can’t upload any pics, it always says “upload folder is full”……….

maltedfalcon

…walls in St. Augustine, FL are made of crushed oyster shells and the mortar was made of salt, water and lime…

I’ve only just caught up with these oyster-wall clues. (Thought the texture looked odd but hadn’t realised what it was.)
Like moonlight in teardrops
“Ancient stories tell of how the Arabs had a superstition that
pearls
are dewdrops filled with moonlight, which fall into the sea and are swallowed by the oysters.”
http://hubpages.com/hub/Dew-Drops-Filled-With-Moonlight
“The wall itself captured my attention. Short on natural building supplies, and long on oysters, the original streets of St Augustine and many fences were created from
oyster shells
– and known as Taby. The textured background is from the wall by the Fountain of Youth, thickly encrusted with the shells.”
http://www.thelensflare.com/gallery/p_t … _36487.php

The phrasal verb “wind up” or “wound up” is interesting to consider as the intent of the words in the line “with wind rose”.
Adjusting for tense and relative meaning we have:
wind / wound
rose / rise = upwards / up
“wound up” is a phrase used to say what result comes from a particular course of action or the conclusion to some situation or event.  “I wound up in jail after a night of drinking.”  “The group wound up lost without a leader”.  “The two families wound up in a bitter feud because of a misunderstanding between two children.”
I thought the line “Near men” might relate to:
near / close to / similar to
men / mankind / humans
What is similar to humans?
Primate monkeys would be the first choice as a genetic and cognitive trait.
Parrots can imitate speech and demonstrate advanced cognition.
Any creature having bipedalism: birds, dogs, bears, meerkats, kangaroos, and the list goes on.
Even something anthropomorphic might be the goal of this line.
I’m quite happy with the “Pig War” as the target for “Near men / With wind rose”.

I don’t think the SELOY anacrostic is in any way meant to
lead
us to the casque. I think it’s a hidden extra that will confirm the location later, after the OTHER elements are discovered and the location is narrowed down. Once you begin researching the St. Augustine area, you will, probably, as we did here on this board, find the word “Seloy” in your research and you’ll have a sort of “aha!” moment with the verse and you’ll know you’re on the right track.
Nor do I believe that BP is using any sort of tricks. While meditating today, I had a good long think about how these puzzles were structured, and one thing kept coming up again and again.
There were no tricks
, no oblique references, no third-layer sets of meanings, no word play. They were very straightforward, used the real initial letters of their locations or items, (i.e., L for Lincoln) real images of real things that were there in the location, and only follow a pattern insofar as they all have a country, gem, month, number and flower associated. There are latitudes and longitudes in each image. Each image follows its country of association into the location somehow–in Cleveland, the assocation is Greece, the location was the Greek cultural Gardens. In Chicago it is Ireland, the location was in Bryant Park, home of Chicago’s Irish Festival ( a major event.) There is a building or structure that is not a composite of many things, but depicted whole and entire–in Image 4, it is the Cleveland Terminal Tower, in Image 5, the Chicago Water Tower. In Image 8, it is Milwaukee City Hall. I believe he had these things included to get us to the correct CITY ONLY. The verse would then narrow down the location further, as would other elements in the Images. These buildings or structures are not private houses, obscure landmarks or otherwise unknown or random inclusions–they are major city elements and can be used to visually identify the place. The castle on the box in Image 11 is probably the Park Plaza Hotel castle.
I don’t think BP was trying  to be obvious, but I really don’t think he was trying to be so tricky that it would take layers upon layers of sleuthing to uncover what was simply THERE, but not well-observed.

erexere

He wants us to think Florida with P6.  He wants us to pair with V9 with SELOY.

And he wants us to find the treasure. Once we think Florida and pair V9 w/ I6….viola. If he were hiding his life savings of a billion dollars, then perhaps he would make it near impossible. This is a treasure hunt for fun.

Anything is possible until the casque is found Rabbit.  Keep the ideas flowing and welcome to the hunt.

ok now i have only been looking into this since i read about Egbert’s find (congrats by the way) and it may sound ignorant but i believe that verse 9 goes with image 6.
i think this mainly because it says “the first chapter written in water near men”  now in the image there is a water mass in the back ground and a man on a horse standing on top of a rock. then you have “behind the bending branches and a green picket fence at the base of a tall tree” now in the image there is flowers of some sort at the base of the rock and since it is by a mass the flowers would bend and the flowers could reprecent a green picket fence that bends in the wind and the rock at it seems to be could be sort of like a tall tree.
that is all i got like i said it may sound ignorant but i have a strong feeling that i am right. does anyone else have a feeling about this.

I spent almost all day thinking about / studying Verse 9 and Image 6, with zilch to show for it. But I agree that stercox has the general location nailed in the Fountain of Youth Park. If I am ever down that way, you can bet I will stop in and spend a couple of hours wandering the park.
But I question the assumption that the rock is a literal representation. I didn’t think that area of the coast was known for large outcroppings of rock, but rather for swampy, flat marshland. Am I mistaken?

Here is what St. Augustine looks like after Hurricane Matthew. This is right near the FoY.
http://www.katc.com/clip/12793658/st-augustine-storm-surge-following-hurricane-matthew-video-from-wfoxcnn
https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10155416539286509/
Here is Magnolia Ave:
http://imgur.com/gallery/k8aGz
In other news….the FoY just received a National Historic designation, which may severely limit digging, and will no doubt increase penalties for unauthorized digging:
http://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/st-johns-county/st-augustine/fountain-of-youth-receives-national-historic-designation

Hi Guys,
Been awhile since I’ve posted I know, but I have been working on the V9 P6 relationship for like a year or two now off and on around school.  I actually just came across this particular thread and was able to see the pictures of St. Augustine and The Fountain of Youth State Park.  We too had it pinned down to St. Augustine but a different park. Looking over the reasons for the Fountain park I give them credit, and in fact our park is only a bout a block or two down the road, a few of the lines I couldnt acount for Stercox found good relations for (particularly the stars moving by day line). I do kind of wish we could just squish them together. So with all that said I will now outline our ideas and experiences.  Sadly I dont have a way to post pictures, is there someone I could send them to?
In one of Stercox’s photos you can see a giant cross in the background.  That cross comemorates the Nombre de Dios park, a park that celebrates the location that Ponce de Leon created the first chapter of the Catholic Church in America.  There are artworks depicting them creating the first chapter of the church while still standing in the water after first disembarking.  So this is what we attributed to “The first chapter written in water”.
For the “near men with wind rose”..more or less connected to the Nombre de Dios park is the park or Our Lady De la Leche. It houses the first shrine to Mary on American soil, and surrounding the shrine is a cemtary. within the cemetary there is an old old fountain in the shape of a windrose. a bit of a stretch granted but it’s all we could come up with.
Ok, “behind bending branches and a green picket fence at the base of a tall tree you can still hear the honking”…. There is a grove of trees for bending branches, the fence is missing but we have been looking for old pictures (the St. Augustine historical society wasnt much help at all, in fact they sort of blew us off), the tall tree we are almost certain is that huge cross. and as for the you can still hear the honking, the road is just out of sight but is still audible.
Shell limestone silver salt.  Aside from the coquina (a mixture of shells and sand and limestone) that is used all over St. Augustine they were also known for their silversmiths. The silver could also be the sunlight glinting on the water? from a poets perspective anyway.
Stars move by day sails pass by night. I like the planetarium for this. we couldnt come up with a very viable explanation at our site.
Even in darkness like moonlight in teardrops. we tend to stick this with “sails pass by night, even in darkness like moonlight in teardrops” and indeed at night the white sails did look something to that effect passing across the dark water of the bay.
“Over the tall grass Years pass, rain falls.” We tend to agree, nothing much happens in the area of the bay outside these two parks besides years passing and rain falling.
One thing i do have to add though, the white rock in the picture looks startling similar to an aerial view of a small island that is directly across a small channel from both these parks. It could be leading us to that island itself instead of to either of these parks. Our original notion was that this all lead to the dig site near the coast next to the huge cross, but we have begun think that perhaps it is leading us past it. like maybe the green picket fence is the small channel.  (maybe theres a large white rock on the island?)
Let me know what ya think.  I’m sure I have left out some details and if any of note come to me I will post them.  As a final note I will say we have had a blast working on this, taking weekend excursions to St. Augustine, walking around the town till like 4 am b/c we had no where to stay etc.  Wouldnt give any of it up for the world, the casque would just be icing.  (P.S. if you arnt 21 you can’t stay in St. Augustine, not even at a campsite, without having parents present. RE-DIC-U-LOUS, I was 19 at the time and about had a coniption when they told me I needed my parents there)
-Guyra

Guy–
I loved visiting St. Augustine too, great little town.  I like your thoughts and have visited that area near the cross also–its such an awesome landmark.  Been looking at this one for almost three years now, have visited a couple times and still working the angles.  I think at least we are both in the right area. I do not discount the FOY park, although many do–because you can’t really dig there–yet–but I am still partial to that park.  My original theory was similar to yours, in that, I felt that the clues were dragging me out toward the coastline.  I have since changed my mind–that coastline is an erosive mess.  I have seen the island that you talk about–anything is possible at this point–I had never thought about traveling across the water–I guess it never felt right to me.  Have you tried to go out there??  I am also haunted by the rock–tree combination, my personal theory is that this is a fine tuning clue, I believe that the tree pictured is actually “the tall tree” and is the final landmark–that the orientation of the rock–tree, when found, will give you the “Eureka! That’s It!!” that we are looking for.  But I am pretty sure that the tree no longer exists due to hurricane damage.  And there are very few rocks in that area.  I think that the rock looks like coquina.    Your interpretaton of the clues are much more symbolic and poetic than mine–I have taken them more literally.  But, until a casque is found–all theories are more than possible.  I am however convinced that St. Augustine is our place for P6/V9 and not on the west Floridian coast.  We just need to keep at it–and luckily being 44 years old–I can visit again without having to bring my parents.

I have thought about that ring a lot, but haven’t a clue.
As for the hydrant, since its introduction I always like to look at it like…

Please see this as an alternative and not meant to be as a refutation to anything FOY related.
I really like the material for FOY, because it has perfectly acceptable qualities of matching a pattern in image and having a reasonable explanation based on the verse.
I’m am offering nothing new here, but I repackaged some recent selections to marvel at the simplicity of this alternative, given an image 6 and verse 5 pairing.  Location: Portland Women’s Forum, Corbett, Oregon on Highway
2
Exit
22
in a region (Oregon Territory) first governed by Joseph
Lane
, first a bird’s eye view compared to Ponce’s pennant flag with a close up perspective of the boulder in the middle of the ring of stones as compared to Ponce’s hilltop.

*censored*

erexere

Please see this as an alternative and not meant to be as a refutation to anything FOY related.

I’ve followed and will continue to consider all your ideas erexere. I think a lot of your stuff is great and I was happy when you started posting. One of my favorite parts of this hunt is the amount of historical stuff I always end up reading/researching… amazing things I would have never known about. Different theories give me reason to search more
With this image, however, I just can’t get past the silhouette of Florida. I can see myself taking seriously an alternate location in the state of Florida, but anything else would be hard pressed to get my attention. Saying this image represents Oregon is like saying Image 4 represents California to me.

Glossiphoniidae

I think a lot of your stuff is great and I was happy when you started posting. One of my favorite parts of this hunt is the amount of historical stuff I always end up reading/researching… amazing things I would have never known about. Different theories give me reason to search more

…yeah, just kidding erexere…

It’s cool.  I can appreciate a little guff now and again, but this isn’t what’s important.  We have a lot of mediums to work with and a lot of preconceptions driving our ideas.  The willpower alone to work through these puzzles with slim to no prospects of recovery is phenomenal.  Keep up the good work.  Hope to see more folks return to this hunt and fill the gap before the earth finishes digesting those casques.
This presents a question to whether verse 9 supports a pairing with image 6 or image 12.
T
he first chapter
W
ritten in water
N
ear men
W
ith wind rose
B
ehind bending branches
A
nd a green picket fence
A
t the base of a tall tree
Y
ou can still hear the honking
S
hell, limestone, silver, salt
S
tars move by day
S
ails pass by night
E
ven in darkness
L
ike moonlight in teardrops
O
ver the tall grass
Y
ears pass, rain falls.
[considered STRONG evidence based on image 6 and a partial acrostic “…SELOY”, an indian tribe that interacted with Ponce deLeon to mean somewhere in St. Augustine Fountain of Youth area.]
T
he first chapter
O
ver the tall grass
N
ear men
W
ith wind rose
W
ritten in water
A
t the base of a tall tree
S
tars move by day
A
nd a green
picket
fence
Y
ou can still hear the honking
S
hell, limestone, silver, salt
S
ails pass by night
E
ven in darkness
L
ike moonlight in teardrops
B
ehind bending branches
Y
ears pass, rain falls.
[my position based on image 12 and a complete acrostic matching the military orders General William
Selby
Harney gave General George
Pickett
to occupy San Juan Island]
I marvel at a reading of ‘Written in water’ to mean a “story of sadness” as it might refer to the
mourning
of George Pickett for losing his wife and unborn child just before Selby gave him the instructions and the irony in his next marriage to a young indian woman named
Morning Mist
(homonym: mourning = morning).  More importantly there are some drops suspended in air,
Definition:
MIST
Verb:
Cover or become covered with mist.
Noun:
A cloud of tiny water droplets suspended in the atmosphere at or near the earth’s surface.

Cheers…yeah, I was pleased to be able to get a palm into the Magnolia theory…
That circular loop of cord in the corner of the flag always caught my attention.

Unknown

Unknown:
I have to agree with you here.  One thing that always bothered me about that combination makes a lot of sense now…  why isnt the tree reflected in the water when the rock is?  It is because they arent together..literally.  It may be that you have to line the two up while standing near the dig site.  You know…walk around the tree {which is on land} until you see the rock/island behind it.  This could be the way to tell you which side of the tree to dig at.

Fox–
I agree.  Except my thoughts about this run in reverse…
There are a lot of curious findings in that drawing–as you noted, no tree reflection.  Also, if you look closely there is a small shadowed line running from the mid trunk or the tree  leftward down toward the ground, disappearing behind the rock.  I’ll throw it out there what I really think this all means:  I think that this part of the picture is nestled into the larger picture for composition sake but the major elements are to be divorced from the rest of the picture and are important to finding “X marks the spot”.  The elements are:  the orientation of the rock in the water, the tree with line.  There are very few rocks in that area–I think that this rock is likely coquina and man made (sharp edge, flat top).  The water although drawn to look like its on the coastline is not ocean.  The water is calm and offers clear reflection with algae even.    I think that the rock was some kind of base centerpiece in a larger fountain, made out of coquina and showing erosion.  Standing or kneeling beside this fountain would give you the perspective of rock in calm water, even algae growth. The size of the reflection itself, creates the look that the rock is very large, because the assumption is the body of water that it is in is very large (the reflection nearly travels to the “shoreline” in the P6).  I propose that the rock is not that large, because the body of water is not that large, that is, its only fountain size.    Now put a tall tree some distance behind that fountain. Its reflection in that same water would
not
be there.  The rock would appear much larger and closer, the tree smaller and at a distance.  Why do this?  Because this alignment pinpoints the tree.  The shadowed line in that view directs you to the left side of that tree to its base.    Dig here.  BTW–I think the line is BP’s shovel handle leaning against the tree.  Can I prove this–NO–its just one of my pet theories I have.  In my recon to St Augustine, at least in my hot spots for possible dig sites–the trees are gone anyway due to hurricanes.  So for what its worth ($0.02).

Found a large boulder with a copper plaque that’s all blue and green and written upon it is “…CHAPTER / DAUGHTERS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION”.  Could the blue and green color be a reference to water, or is it more the geology of the stone being a glacial erratic, a stone that has been moved or carried to a location by glacial flow.  Ice = water right?
Here’s a fascinating find:  I’ve previously matched the proportions of the image in height and where the water line/surf matches the base of the monument stone.  That this was moved from the Redoubt site to another area is something to consider.
Amazing!  I can’t stop thinking about this connection as to why the white gowned woman is floating vs what a rock carried by a glacier does.  How does a rock “fly” to the top of a hill?  This glacier thing fits every angle I look at it.  Gown as white with blue base edge matches the typical description of a glacier “white ice floating in cold blue water”.

Unknown

Unknown:
As a result of the negotiations, both sides agreed to retain joint military occupation of the island until a final settlement could be reached, reducing their presence to a token force of no more than 100 men.[5] The “British Camp” was established on the north end of San Juan Island along the shoreline, for ease of supply and access; and the “American Camp” was created on the south end on a
high, windswept meadow,
suitable for artillery barrages against shipping.[7] Today the Union Jack still flies above the “British Camp”, being raised and lowered daily by park rangers, making it one of the very few places without diplomatic status where
US government employees regularly hoist the flag of another country.

Years pass, rain falls
421, I rather like the “reign false” interpretation.  “Reign” pertains to the rule of a Monarch and “false flag” pertains to flying a flag of a country not of your own.
The line about tall grass might fit here.

Okay, i never heard of this organization before, it sounded like a cruel MS joke at first, this link confirms the first chapter was in Washington State.
http://www.dar.org/natsociety/archives_founders.cfm

Glossiphoniidae

One thing that interested me was that the materials sign is composed in the same way that the line, “shells, limestone, silver, salt” is (salt and silver actually appear on the materials sign, but shells and limestone do not).

I can not find the post but if my memory serves me correctly…there was something posted about the walls around the park, near that infamous picket fence, being constructed of shells and limestone.

If the sign at the entrance isn’t enough to persuade you of “First Chapter Written In Water” then mull over this. If death is the last chapter in one’s life, then the first chapter would be birth or youth. “The Fountain of Youth is a legendary spring that supposedly restores the youth of anyone who drinks or bathes in its waters.” There is our first chapter and water.

Not sure how long this sign has been there but that sure looks like out man on the horse to me….right down to the red and yellow banner.

“The Park is most famous for its springs, also known as The Fountain of Youth. About 60 years ago, they built a beautiful structure around the spring…”
co·qui·na noun \kō-ˈkē-nə\
Definition of COQUINA
1
: a soft whitish limestone formed of broken shells and corals cemented together and used for building

fox

I can not find the post but if my memory serves me correctly…there was something posted about the walls around the park, near that infamous picket fence, being constructed of shells and limestone.

Using the naturally occuring shells and limestone in coastal areas as building materials is not just specific to St. Augustine.

erexere

Using the naturally occuring shells and limestone in coastal areas as building materials is not just specific to St. Augustine.

And neither are rock formations to Corbett. I never said it was specific to the area. It is just one more thing in a long list of things specific to FOY.

fox

And neither are rock formations to Corbett. I never said it was specific to the area. It is just one more thing in a long list of things specific to FOY.

Im looking at a monument with a plaque.  Youre pointing out calcium carbonate like its something point specific.

I’m headed out there now, I’ll see if I can get some pictures if I find anything to show you what I’m talking about.

You’d be hard pressed to make me believe that most copula-style weather vane’s are not considered wind roses, including the one on the planetarium and the HoJo. Where am I going wrong? And unfortunately, if BP had meant weather vane, he probably wouldn’t have written “weather vane.” It would have been some simile. if he was that straight forward, we would have found many more casques by now.

After finding the plaque specific to the First Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution I looked for photos of the area within line of sight.
This picket fence has a familiar shape which I’ve verified as being consistent with 1981, restored and unchanged (not relocated or altered from its original shape).
I think the tall tree in the background behind the picket fence is a good place to consider digging.  I found the same image/map technique used in the Cleveland solution where a few of the elements match exactly when mirrored.  At this point there is no question which image this fits.  Folks may still be confused if some of the minor alterations through road restoration, scrub removal, and erosion in the past 30 years.  I’ve done the work to research these changes.  I asked Paul Kitchen to have a look while he volunteered at this site over the summer but he never reported back.  Bigmatty mentioned visiting the area also, perhaps he can do a little more recon.

In search of something consistent with this new hypothesis, I discovered the memorial issued by DAR’s first chapter, Washington being the first place of their founding.  There isn’t any play on words, they are an official organization represented by chapters across the country.  The recipient of this honor was significant enough to be included in this pamphlet,
I spell “TO NW WA SAYS SELBY” using the first letter of each line.  Here is a quote from a tourism pamphlet that equates to Selby (William S. Harney’s middle name) telling Pickett to go to northwest Washington.
Another thought about the “To northwest Washington Says Selby” idea is the incidental similarity in format to the book title “To the Lighthouse”.  Seems like minutiae, but who knows how set Preiss was on being clever and obscure at the same time.
Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) is comprised of chapters across the US, their FIRST CHAPTER is actively represented by those women in the State of Washington.
The first chapter
represents DAR, specifically a plaque with a dedication to an Army engineer in San Juan Island on a very large very significant land mark, the Redoubt Rock in honor of Lt. H.M. Robert.
Written in water
is just like the “Writ in water” memorial epitaph for John Keats and works here to point us to a memorial of some sort.  On San Juan Island, there are two memorials, the Redoubt Rock and the Pickett Memorial obelisk, along with a small cemetery south of the American Camp.
Near men
With wind rose
The camp consisted in 1981 of only one remaining building, the Officer’s Quarters.  Since then, other buildings have been restored to existing foundations, but the working definition of Quarters points us to a military dwelling.  This specific site is very exposed to windy conditions and has a lot of rose scrub (labeled as non-contributing) which has been since removed.
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
points to a fruit bearing tree, an orchard remnant of trees is nearby just north of the redoubt and east of the camp with the picket fence.
You can still hear the honking
Goose Island is just off the eastern shore.
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
All present and very significant to this area and directly stated upon several historical markers with the lime kilns and abalone shell.
Stars move by day
Huge 90 foot flagstaff at American Camp.
Sails pass by night
Implies lighthouse
Even in darkness
A radio beacon (specific to Cattle Point) guides without light.
Like moonlight in teardrops
White (the color of moonlight) blossoming pear (shape of teardrop) trees are of the nearby orchard trees remaining.
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls
Many “glacial erratics” are present on the prairie landscape and a significant point of tourism as well as geological interest.  The words “years pass, rain falls” is very similar to the text of a Virginia Woolf book, To the Lighthouse.
Pairing this interpretation with image 12 works well.  The illustration matches three specific land marks perfectly.  What’s fascinating is the acrostic TO NW WA SAYS SELBY fits all the first letters of the verse when putting the lines in a slightly different order.  This may help indicate where we start and where we end, which I haven’t yet determined.  I think the “base of a tall tree” is one of the Landsbury Poplars on the south side of the Camp.
http://www.nps.gov/sajh/historyculture/upload/2012-American_Camp_History_Walk_online_color.pdf
See this link to recognize the significance of William SELBY Harney and Capt. George Pickett to this establishment.  Also see this pdf for a more current and in-depth review of the site:
American Camp
Some additional history on the area:
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_bo … /adhi5.htm
and
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onli … istory.pdf
Here’s the pamphlet which would’ve been available to Preiss:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/7194929/Ame … alk# 
Note where number 11 appears on the history walk.

Unknown

Unknown:
Years pass, rains fall, casques hide.

Just got back from St. Augustine dig.  Sad to report that the casque was not found.  Here’s the story.  I started looking at P6 back in the fall of 2004 and always felt that it was a Spanish conquistador, likely Ponce de Leon.  I researched St. Augustine back then as it fit the immigration theme that was being developed and the Spanish theme for the hunt.  There were several additional clues (really dropped hints) in the book’s preface on pg 22 and pg 30 as well.  During my research,  I ran across some images of two signs within the park on some travel website.  The signs mentioned
shell, limestone, silver salt
, even in that order.  I had visited the Fountain of Youth park as a kid and remembered the Planetarium there.  The pieces started coming together.  Further research kept confirming the FOY park and I planned a trip in January 2005.  Unfortunately, one could never dig there because the park is private property and an archeological site.  At first, I thought that the clues pulled you out to the coastline and on that trip we found much more to confirm the park as the hiding place, but the clues blew through our coastline theory.  I made another trip to St. Augustine in summer of 2006.  This time we tried to firm up our thoughts and lock in on it.  Still no digging was allowed.   During these visits I became friends with one of the staff members, Jenny.  She has been a vital person in the efforts to find this casque.   And my hat is off to her.  We have bounced ideas back and forth and her interest and excitement about this hunt has been contagious.  Jenny has been the catalyst in brokering some dig time with the owners of the park.  We planned another trip this March to test out our theory:
Start with P6:
There is not much to get you to the FOY park.  But not much is needed, since it is hinted at in the book and is a famous place.  There is Ponce de Leon.  The longitude 82 in the big rock.  Although, St. Augustine’s longitude is 81+, using 81 would have put you in the Atlantic Ocean, so I believe that BP used 82, close enough.  I do not see a clear latitude in the picture.  The flowers form a rough sketch of a spanish galleon.  A solid confirmer is the schematic symbol on the flag and even the shape of the flag itself.  The symbol is found on an archeological site map found at the park.  It symbolizes an obelisk monument out by the coastline.
Much of the big rock imagery seems to be subjective.  I’ve been looking at this for years (and so have you).  Even those who see the park everyday have ideas about the imagery, some of it is really good, but not everyone will agree in what they see in that big rock.  I believe there are many loose confirmers.  I have not seen anything concrete that will lead one to a specific dig site.  And maybe its not meant to.  I will say, that we have found no utility for the rock–tree combination in the lower right of P6.  And it may be important??!
Now V9:
The first chapter
This is a literal clue and a confirmer.  These exact words are used on an entry gate sign at the FOY park
Written in water
Allusion to the history and lore of the fountain (water) of youth.  The two lines are seen in juxtaposition at the FOY gate at the entry to the parking lot.  No changes since BP’s time.   These lines can be interpreted to say “The first chapter of our nation’s history was written at the Fountain of Youth”.
Near men
With wind rose
The verse is a little disordered.  The next six lines, starting with
Near men
localize the dig site.  You will not see these clues until you work your way back to the Planetarium.  There within the vestibule of the Planetarium you will find a display of a
wind rose
, another literal confirmer, meaning the words
wind rose
are used.  Across from the
wind rose
is a replica Spanish ship with men on the deck.
Near men with wind rose
can be interpreted to mean “Near the planetarium vestibule”.
Behind bending branches
On Magnolia avenue running in front of the park is a well known and impressive tunnel of branches that line that street.  And behind those bending branches is the FOY park.
And a green picket fence
The park has several picket fences and they are all green, some recently repainted.  No changes since BP’s time.  One of the fences runs perpendicular to the outside wall along Magnolia avenue.  The wall runs N-S and the fence runs E-W.  This begins to create a boundry.  And inside that boundry is the Planetarium.
At the base of a tall tree
There are hundreds of trees in the park.  But when you can identify the boundries of the search you start to eliminate many of them.  There are Live Oaks, palms, pines, elms etc.  I always thought we would be looking for a palm tree given P6.  But I don’t see the clues leading us there (I could be wrong–since I did not find it).   It would have had to have been a mature tree  (to be tall) and near the vestibule of the Planetarium.  How does one eliminate further trees in this area?
You can still hear the honking
In the early 80’s, and during BP’s time, the park had a goose pen behind and slightly west of the planetarium.  Nearly a dozen  geese there (only 3 out on the actual goose pond at the time).  In a single line of verse, you can eliminate many trees now that are within the sight line of the goose pen.  This arrangement eliminates all but one tree.  The tree is within 6 ft of the Planetarium vestibule wall (on the other side of the wall hangs the wind rose).  The tree is out of sight line of the goose pen, but you could easily still hear them honking.  This tree died several years ago and on one of our trips we could find where the park had ground the stump.
The area around the Planetarium has not changed since BP’s time.   You will find it looking the same today as it did then, except for the loss of two live oaks and the goose pen which is now gone.  One oak was taken down in a hurricane (but was within the sight line of the old goose pen), the other oak is our proposed tall tree.
When we found out it was an oak and not a palm tree, our hearts sunk.  We knew there would be a heavy root system making digging in this area very difficult.  And the fact that it was not a palm kept nagging at us–and still does.  But we followed the clues.  The next several clues function as confirmers and lead you from the park entrance back to the planetarium.
Shell, limestone
On a sign found very near the entry.  The words shell and limestone are found literally in this order on a sign describing the coquina structures there.
Silver, salt
On a sign found within the Spring house.  The words silver salt are found literally in this order on a sign describing a casque found at the FOY left there by the Spanish.
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
The planetarium runs regular shows all during the day,  showing you how sailors used the night sky to navigate.  There is a ship mast and sails within the planetarium that gives you the perspective of being on the deck of a ship looking up into the night sky.  More on this later.
The last stanza…
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.
This last part of V9 is very cryptic, poetic and subjective.  I always felt that it referred to the planetarium–the look of the small lights used to simulate stars in the darkness of the planetarium, just like the brightness of moonlight but the size of a drop.  Tall grass may be a reference to the wetland grasses at the coarstline or the bamboo in the area–who knows.  Years pass–The discovery globe program’s script talks about “eons and eons passing…”  the Planetarium script talks about “Columbus coming to the new world in
1492
….then Ponce de Leon in
1513
“.  Rain falls–During the Planetarium program a
thunderstorm
is simulated right after the discussion of the years.
Good guess–but subjective.  I have come to find out that these last few lines are very, very important and that they hold a solid literal confirmer that will marry this verse (V9) to P6, for even the toughest skeptics among us.  It is unlikely to be a coincidence and may impact how we look at other verses in this hunt.  The discovery of this clue is not mine, but my friend Jenny’s.  About 3 days before we left for the dig, Jenny emails me this….
S
ails pass by night
E
ven in darkness
L
ike moonlight in teardrops
O
ver the tall grass
Y
ears pass, rain falls
SELOY
…is the name of the old indian village that the FOY park sits on.  There is a sign at the park referencing this.  A major acrostic clue!!  And it was right in front of us all the time!!  Just goes to show you, new clues can be found even when you’ve studied it for years.
THE DIG
We arrived in St. Augustine late Friday night and ate dinner with the owner and Jenny and her husband Jay.  The owner relayed to us how easy it would have been to bury a casque here in the early 80’s.  There was no security and there was only one lamp lit for the entire 15 acre park.   We discussed the plan of attack.  The owner set up very specific rules for us.  He does not want publicity or it to become public knowledge, unless it’s found and he would like to see it found.  He does not want other people digging randomly in the park–it is after all a protected archeological site.  He does not want this discussed with any employees because they may go around digging on their own.  The archeologists were not present working in the park, otherwise we could not have dug that weekend.  We had to wait for the park to close before digging which left us about 3 hours hours before dark.  We had to put the site back the way we found it and we had to get this accomplished before security arrived for the night.  It was all very clandestine.  And so, we dug.   Looking at the clues the six instructional lines starting with
Near men
create  north (fence), east (planetarium vestibule), south (goose pen), and west (bending branches, Magnolia ave) boundaries.  Using the sight line from the goose pen and the fact the tall tree needs to be near the vestibule, we dug at the base of a ground up stump from a dead oak tree.  I might say that roots are the bane of my existence!  (Milwaukee De ja vu).   Three of us dug on two different nights.  We dug until our hands were bloody stumps.  Thank God for Advil!!  We gave it our best shot but it was not recovered.  And I cannot say how discouraging it is to say those words out loud.   The root system is complex and creates an extensive network at varying levels at the base of that tree.  They begin about 1 1/2 feet down.  It is a hard wood and difficult to chop and clear.  Plus we had time (and energy) constraints.   Conclusion:  It is there under the roots or it is close by but requires a slight change in the interpretation of the verse.  Certainly, every tree near the vestibule could be dug up, but it would need to be done in stages and the others are live trees (roots again).  We plan to go back soon.   We’ve worked hard to diplomatically maintain a positive respectful relationship with the owner.
And I’m going to say this as delicately as I can and without intention to offend—The owner will likely only deal with me in brokering further digs as we were the first to ever broach this with him.
I do not want to sound like I am trying to grab this one exclusively.  It is actually his wishes.  But this is a team effort and I recognize that.  He now feels comfortable with this that I am able to go public and post all of what we have found there in the hopes that the Q4T Brain Trust will collaborate, as we always have,  in finding it.  I don’t think that he is opposed to having future small teams with us to come to the park to dig if a dig site sounded solid.  He actually is quite excited about the casque being there (and has looked for it himself) and thinks that it would make a great story and bring postivie publicity to the park.  Above all, this relationship must be maintained in good standing–or the opportunity to find this casque could be lost forever.
SUMMARY
If you
believe
that the FOY park is the casque site, then there are some interesting insights found with this particular puzzle that may apply to other P/V match ups.
* Many of the clues are found inside buildings and not exclusively outside–and these are literal confirmers, not just allusions to what the buildings hold.  Ex.  “Seek the sounds of rumble brush and music hush” in V12 alluding to the ART building near the dig site in Chicago as opposed to “Silver, salt” or “wind rose” which are literal words used on signs within the building exhibits.  If you do not go into the buildings you may not find these.
* The acrostic clue used here–SELOY.  There may be other word puzzles within these verses we have not considered before (other acrostics, anagrams, etc).  This opens up a whole new realm of potential discovery.
* You need to really go to the sites to see them up close and personal.  You can only get so much on-line. If you are close to one of the prospective sites, then GO– and  photo-document it as thoroughly as possible.
* Digging for these is tough work!  Ask Egbert and Siskel, Ask Wilhouse, Ask Forest Blight or Pine Tree.  Ask others that have dug.  Plan carefully and don’t kid yourself–permission will likely be needed for every dig and you should try to get that permission or you could blow it for future attempts.  And for God’s sake–get a lot of help!  OUCH!
IMAGES
P6 V9 St. Augustine
:  I have posted the confirmers and views of our dig in this Webshot album.  It starts with  P6 and then follows the order of V9. All photos are tagged with captions. See for yourself.
FOY Tour
:  I have posted all the photos I have of inside the park from three visits for you to look at.  The Webshots Rearranging function is not working right now for some reason–so they are only loosely arranged into areas of the park.  I will continue to try to organize them when this function is working again.  I’ve tagged all of these with identifiers too, but orientation may be difficult until they can be reorganized.  Sorry.
http://community.webshots.com/user/stercox
And in Trohn’s famous words….
Enjoy!  Let the discussion begin!

Something to consider…that the walls of the planetarium are the same color as the rock in the image and the walls have designs in them.  Perhaps the shape of the rock in the image is a design on the wall of the planetarium and further narrows down the search location to being in front of it.  The picture in the webshots album “P6 V9 St. Augustine” that is titled “Stars move by day” has one such design about 4/5 of the way up that could be interpruted to be the rock.  Perhaps you find the design and orient yourself so that you see a tree (palm?) in the distance that lines up as in the image.
Just some thoughts.  Wish I could help with the dig when you go again, but it looks like its about a 9 hour drive for me.

geez you guys are tough!
i really don’t know how an artist would do it and then it still be recognizable when it is printed, especially before computers.  but i know there have always been riddles and reversed images in books since i can remember.
and guys, Mira Chimera is the only Spanish fair folk.  MIRROR Chimera.
p. 129  “She can ONLY be seen in a MIRROR”
“may be as close as your vanity table”
okay………that just gave me an idea……….maybe it is “
YOU
“………….somewhere behind the letters of  “fountain of
YOU
th”
still, i’m gonna keep using a mirror because there are so many words that suggest it such as “command, instructs, tape, operating, perform any of these”

Fox, I agree. We’ve just gotten way off track here. Yes, we hit walls. In almost everything. I can’t say I’m surprised at that–like I said, it’s been 30 years. There is so much that is different now. And it’s so easy to think that this hunt would be like other hunts out there–but you must remember that other hunts are based mostly on internet searches, finds, research, other puzzles available–this hunt wasn’t. It was simple. Almost elementary, actually. Pictures and riddles. No trickery. Although yes, Slappy, it might have been possible to use mirrors, I don’t think they
were
used; not if you’re asking a renowned painter to make your images. He just wouldn’t use something like that. His website shows a lot of his work–it’s
all
very surreal, dreamy, symbolic–he is known for exactly that sort of thing. In fact, he
might even
have had the Chicago image already painted long before Preiss had the idea for the hunt–it’s the only one of the Secret images that appears on his website as a standalone painting (it’s called “Castle Hat”.) And how much more likely is it that he simple incorporated the images he was sent on polaroids into his art work? HIGHLY LIKELY. If he had had a computer or Google, or satellite pics, or even a bunch of puzzle hunts instead of just the one–Masquerade–to pull from, then perhaps I would agree that mirrors might be a factor–but not in this instance. The only hunt out there that had ever captured the attention of the public was Masquerade, and it was a hunt like this one: riddled text, surreal paintings. So it’s not that I don’t think it was possible, I just don’t think it was at all
likely
given when this was put together.
Also remember that the text of the book–the story of all those “fair folk” was done separately and is not affiliated with the buried treasures at all, no matter how much coincidental material you find.

We were back out at the park today taking some more pictures and had walked out to the area behind the planetarium and Jay said “You know, it really could be back here too!” If you stop and think about it, you could line up the bamboo at the restroom, the green picket fence, the umbrella fountain, the planetarium, and keep going back behind the building. There would have been other trees back there that are now gone and may have given him the cover he needed to be out of sight of the goose pen. It could be the tree!

Whew!  Since Stercox first posted after the dig, this thread has almost tripled in length.
And I believe if this were 82′ or 83′, you would have found it the first time.
I too think all the possibilities have been discussed, so there is no reason to rush.
With Sawdusty’s eyes and ears, we’ll know if the park is going to change.
Stercox, Pine Tree, and Egbert, let us know when you are going for the
final dig
and then we’ll see how many more can join you, (quietly).  I don’t know if I’ll be there or not,
but it would be nice to shake hands with all of you.
(bclews- I’m going to send you some pics of JPJ Park in Brooklyn pretty soon so you
can do your magic. Thanks)

Good luck with the finish.
I think we have done just about all
of the observing from the pictures and the
verse connections without being there.
The one thing I would say about the final spot,
I would want to be facing East.
Also, did I see a picket fence behind (south)
of the burial grounds?

Trohn

Good luck with the finish.
I think we have done just about all
of the observing from the pictures and the
verse connections without being there.
The one thing I would say about the final spot,
I would want to be facing East.
Also, did I see a picket fence behind (south)
of the burial grounds?

I see the wooden fence you are referring to.  I think that is a fence that separates the park’s public spaces from employee only areas that have storage sheds. equipment, etc.  Its painted brown–don’t know if it was always that way.  S’dusty can verify this with the owner.
Why facing East?

Looking for the “2” I found this…
At the first sight I thought that it was the fountain’s kids that was moved.
I like more it seemed to be BP hiding the casque…
(in a spot where is matching the palm and rock perspective)

Thanks Eg, I alredy subscribed, but my membership is awaiting approval by the group owner …

eljayo

Thanks Eg, I alredy subscribed, but my membership is awaiting approval by the group owner …

I applied yesterday, and now I am able to view the photos.
edit:  A big thank you to all (past present and future) who take such great and
encompassing photos that make us all feel like we are on site!!
I loved the “grow old with me” monumnet (Years pass)
That is the corner that I believe the clues lead us to… wish the image could
be more helpful – it nailing it to there.
The wall on magnolia i still believe it what is referring to as
(like moonlight in tear drops)  The teardroped shells imbedded into the rock.
The base of the tall tree doesnot have to be a palm tree as the palm tree image
is in the definite back ground.  I think it is there to confirm a florida location
and to face us towards the water, but not be standing at it.
The water in the image could be described as a well, so the photos where you are
‘looking straight ahead’ would priobably have you standing right on top of the
likely burial spot.
Thanks again.
Hopefully the water there is the only thing that is bitter.

Trohn

The wall on magnolia i still believe it what is referring to as
(like moonlight in tear drops)  The teardroped shells imbedded into the rock.

I forgot to mention that.  On the side of the wall facing Magnolia Ave., there are oysters embedded in the wall.  I was not there at night, but I do believe that oysters are luminescent.
Also, I did not mention that I believe there is a number hidden in the palm tree leaves in Image 6.  You need the book to see it, and it is right against the border.  It has a “2” in it.  I think it is either 29 or 62.  Sawdusty said that the address for the park was not always 11 Magnolia Ave., but she does not recall the old address.  I do not know what else the number would apply to.  I hope someone else sees the number.

Egbert – I don’t see the number, but if you’re right it would fit very nicely with the latitude/longitude theme. St. Augustine’s latitude is 29.

or youre stuck, and the end is not dead…you just havent figured your way out
labyrinth shit, you know?

Josh, I know this may come as shock to you but I disagree with the “factual” statement that it is in the FOY exihibit.
Near men
With wind rose
That first part of the verse refers to Castillo de San Marcos. The men are the conquistadors who fought there. The Castillo is a Wind Rose design. I don’t believe it has anything to do with telling searchers to go into buildings and find other clues. Although, BP may have gotten inspiration from some items inside buildings for his Images and Verses.

Unknown

Unknown:
I disagree with the “factual” statement that it is in the FOY exihibit

There is a windrose in an exhibit in FoY Park, and it was there in 1981/82. Those are facts. Whether it has anything to do with the puzzle, and the location of the St. Augustine casque is speculative. As is most of the information in the Verses for the more difficult puzzles. That’s why this Forum has over 33K posts, and is still going strong.
Well, that and the trolls.

The words “Wind Rose” appear on a board in the planetarium, which is referenced in the verse. Surely that’s the most likely explanation.

Unknown

Unknown:
Surely that’s the most likely explanation.

The problem with “the most likely explanation” WR, is that as we have seen time and time again, with regard to the Verses, the most likely explanation frequently leads us to dead ends. In 1983, these dead ends would have just required a re-set. Thirty-six years later, they are problems unto themselves.
I’ll just put this out there for everyone: can you imagine the phone call between the owners of FoY and Preiss the first time someone was caught digging on the premises? I doubt that he would have told them that “digging there would not be a waste of time”. Draw your own conclusions.

this isnt breaking news, we all know that it is a ref to the windrose in the FOY exhibit, and a ref to the mariners who stayed behind with menendez to form the first settlement…this is pretty common knowledge…

thank you quad-espresso.
I found some good points to focus on to narrow down the method used for this location.  The verse introduces no steps or paces which makes this a classic “find the spot where things line up” as they did in Chicago where it was in response to a grid of trees and a “fill in the blank” situation, the blank being found close to the fence and fixture.
What I have found, and I’ve posted the primary details already, is the fence arch on the east side of the American Camp fits exactly the format of image 12, with an arch and with FIVE pickets inside it.  Those pickets match the five lines used to make the FOUR pane separation observed in image 12 behind the floating woman and the seabird.
Note the clock in the right panel and see the short hand is on the 11, long hand on the 12. Now study the tourist pamphlets, and quickly locate via map the 11 is a marker post next to the significantly large Flagpole and the 12 is the marker at the base of the Officer’s Quarters.  This map has a windrose in the upper-hand corner. The earlier version, probably most consistent with Preiss’ visit shows a bugle below the No.12 heading in the pamphlet.  (maybe this is the “I can still hear the honking” referred to in the verse).  11 and 12 are within the “Parade Grounds”, which also might be considered the part of the “honking” reference.
I think the centered piece of the robe hanging below the sash tied in the center of the woman’s waist is something that might resemble a specific tree at the site.
I think the arch in the picket fence is the focal point for locating the casque.  The flagpole and officer’s quarters building can both be lined up, centered even, and that might be a quick determination of the line heading north east that takes you near some nondescript trees, i.e. trees not considered as part of the protected orchard remnant which is closest to the windrose position in the pamphlet map.
Note again the pickets formation (new now, yet restored to their exact original specifications) with a sort of eschelon or chevron formation, center picket is highest with the two adjacent pickets being shorter, etc.. The centers of these five pickets exactly matches the proportioned lines of the four panes.  Now note the second from left pane with the Moorish architecture resembling a Russian Orthodox church. The center tower is higher with the two adjacent towers shorter, perhaps this helps emulate the staggered appearance of the pickets in this one location.  This is why I feel this arch is significant in choosing the final path to the casque. It must be an intersecting or line motif.  The left most pane is an exact match of the west side of the Cattle Point Lighthouse.  Facing east through the picket arch we are actually looking right at the west side of the Lighthouse.  I know the camp and the redoubt positions were chosen to give maximum visibility over the land and sea, however I’m not sure how precisely the Lighthouse looks from this vantage point since I haven’t come across any photos yet.
I’ve looked at this as objectively as possible.  I’ve been very hard working at this treasure hunt for the last 18 months.  It’s becoming much more a simple approach, but a trick here and there to understand, rather than a complex course of thinking.  I hope folks who have criticized my approach in the past haven’t abandoned any consideration towards my recent observations.  I’ve really changed my point of view and see my observations as merely that and not as absolutes.  Where i’ve felt the need to be absolute about something, it shouldn’t rest solely on my opinion, but on good observations that anyone else can plainly see.  At this point, I’m not sure if anyone has a willingness to see plainly, since they have findings and opinions of their own.
forestblight, how do you like them windows now?
Bigmatty, what happened to you, this site is right in your backyard.  Go have another look will you?
Paul Kitchen, I’m sorry I couldn’t be more conclusive during your volunteer stay with the park service.  Maybe you’ll have another chance to check it out.  Please let us know.

Honestly Erexere, if you’d put half as much trouble into contacting people in St Augustine as you have into this wild, honking goose chase, we’d have recovered the casque long ago.

erexere

forestblight, how do you like them windows now?

I love those windows. They will haunt me for years, no doubt. I find your logic perplexing, however. I think I have an open mind and “a willingness to see plainly,” but when I attempt to see things plainly, all I see is St. Augustine and P6.

I’m wondering if the last words of the verse apply somehow to the idea of parliamentary procedure.  After the introduction of new business, a motion, a second, following discussion a vote is taken to pass the motion.  Rain falls / Years pass.  This is perplexing and curious.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onli … ayouts.pdf
This is really great stuff…*churn churn* maybe I’ll find something of use here before having to set foot in San Juan.
Wow, that is fascinating and deep research.  Lots of detail on the lime composition of the plaster and paint analysis of the buildings which used lots of alternating green and white colors over the years.  Nothing directly mentions the fence paint.
I especially like the comparison of architectural style of the Officer’s Quarters to that of the House of Ulysses S. Grant in Vancouver (Chicago’s Grant Park crossover?).
See page 102 of the 111 page PDF and you’ll see where building 13, the hospital, was located.  The Florence Nightengale theory suggests the casque might be buried near there at the base of a tall tree just a few paces to the west of that site.  Overhead satellite images confirm where these buildings once stood.  A tourist sign map at the site shows where the buildings once stood as well.  Restoration and preservation has been active since 1966.  I don’t know yet what has changed since 1981, hoping not much, and that Priess found easy access to the layout information.
And so I have this new line by line,
The first chapter
On October 11, 1890, eighteen women and four men met in Washington for the purpose of organizing the Daughters of the American Revolution.  This was the VERY FIRST DAR chapter.  A memorial plaque by DAR honors Lt. H. M. Robert at the Redoubt of San Juan Island.
Written in water
In Rome, Italy, Keats’ epitaph reads “Here lies one whose name is writ in water.”  One of his poems, Ode to a Nightingale, is our clue to apply Florence Nightingale to this riddle.  The artist J.J. Palencar responded with “…elves can be tricksters.” when asked about this hunt.  Ode to a Nightingale contains the line “As she is fam’d to do, deceiving elf.”  I do think he was dropping a hint.
Near men
The men of the US Army who occupied the American Camp of San Juan Island and lived in the Officer’s Quarters building, bored for having nothing to do when Britain refused to go to war over a pig.
With wind rose
Think of wind as gale and rose as flora.  The “Nightingale Rose” is a statistical chart developed by Florence Nightingale and this polar pie chart method is still used for applications such as meteorology.  The weather in the San Juan Island area was of great concern to maritime traffic which depended upon contact with the two lighthouse stations on the island: Cattle Point Lighthouse and Lime Kiln Lighthouse.
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
Military clues: branch, green, base = US Army.  A picket fence surrounds the American Camp and coincidentally, Army Captain George S. Pickett and the men of Company D of the 9th US Infantry were dispatched to San Juan Island during the dispute with the British.
You can still hear the honking
This is a military camp, and it would be certain to have used bugle call to signal duty change, mess hall, etc.
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
The abalone mollusca, common in the area at the time, have a silvery mother-of-pearl nacre composition of Calcium Carbonate (which is also limestone).  According to research the plaster used on the structures in the area wasn’t composed of the usual gypsum (plaster of paris), but instead used seashell and horsehair as a binder.
Stars move by day
Stars on a US Flag are moving with the wind.  A tall flag pole is present at the American Camp.
Sails pass by night
Lighthouse.  Cattle Point Lighthouse is nearest, down the road on the eastern peninsula.
Even in darkness
Without the guidance of light, the ships relied on the Radio Beacon installed on the Cattle Point Lighthouse which allowed navigation even in dense fog.
Like moonlight in teardrops
This line goes well with “written in water”, as it speaks of grief and passing on and moonlight is set in “night,” the final reinforcing clue to Florence Nightingale who as a nurse dealt with many victims and wounded of war.
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.
The American Camp had a hospital building.  I’m starting to put it together now as it follows that a nurse would be synonymous with hospital.  Where once a hospital building stood “over” it’s dirt foundation and after a hundred weathering years, only tall grass now stands.
Where are you, Bigmatty?

I don’t know if you ever read the verse 10 thread, but it is a really horrible match to image 12. Some very wild forced fit theories there. Until there is a way to match the pictures with the verses better I’m inclined to be skeptical that verse 9 goes with image 6 at all. The whole “Seloy” theory seems to be nothing more than coincidence to me.

yes it did

Thank you. I believe it must have been there for the purpose of a truly awesome red herring. Same for the SELOY acrostic tail section.

jayheedan1

I don’t know if you ever read the verse 10 thread, but it is a really horrible match to image 12. Some very wild forced fit theories there. Until there is a way to match the pictures with the verses better I’m inclined to be skeptical that verse 9 goes with image 6 at all. The whole “Seloy” theory seems to be nothing more than coincidence to me.

I believe that rock solid confirm is Like Moonlight in Teardrops
That is the visual descrition of the composition of the outer wall
6 and 9 are the match… The conquistador matches a statue in the Park…. Does someone want to remind the naysayers of
The long gone goose pond to the right of the exit?
Years pass ….. Even at the Fountain of Youth

I don’t think its coincidence. The acrostic hint is acceptably clever. Although its obscure to expect anyone to discover an epitaph reference, John Keats is widely known. The issue of SELOY being a piece of low fruit relating to a Spanish themed jewel is what raises my suspicions. To consider all fifteen lines as contributing to a secret message is more appealing to me, but clearly its scrambled. I invested a good deal of time playing with the first words of each line like refrigerator magnets and came to the conclusion that a minimal amount of effort in swapping just four positions and keeping 11 in the same spots made a coherent and complete message relating to the English poet acrostic to an major English event: the Pig War. TO NW WA SAYS SELBY. While SELOY fits the expectation or need for a FOY hint, it doesn’t seem necessary or as useful to narrow anything down to the next key connection for a Floridian-Spanish themed location, which is why I see it as a red herring. SELBY on the other hand has far better prospects as it poses a new question: why SELBY? SELBY is a town in England. Its also the origin for a stain glassed window relating to George Washington. (
http://www.mountvernon.org/research-col … /ancestry/
). But the real question is, WHO is Selby? It being the middle name of the General who ordered Captain Pickett to set up a defensive position in NW WA.
Considering that Verse 11 with Image 3 fits an English themed jewel, my expected application for English poet John Keats is contradictory unless its good evidence can point to the English being clearly involved in another cultural setting. I’ve concluded the Rusalki use the Russian Orthodox church image in the stain glass window of Image 12 as that link and choose a setting just north across the waters of Alki Point where the Statue of Liberty watches the fishing boats pass by in the night, nets full of kippers.

I just reread this entire thread, if the sign being there in the 80’s was verified I missed it. The old pictures I saw posted showed a completely different looking entrance. That being said most of the links are broken or missing.

Hmm, maybe
Erexere
is here for the purpose of a truly awesome red herring…

A place to really look at is Ponce De Leon Park in Punta Gorda Florida. One of the users of Twelve mentioned this park some time ago. They said that many of the images that make up the rock were found just outside the park entrance. They said that there was a water channel that ran by the park and big boats would go through and toot at little boats all day long.
One thing I saw on there website is a statue of Ponce De Leon that while not on a horse looked very mouch like the one in  the image. It is possible that the horse was sort of a decoy like the wundmill on front of the water tower in the Chicago image.

is seasalty (?) still around?  did anyone dig behind ponce de leon down by the shape of that shore, or down at the end of magnolia street?
i remember someone dug inside the park  once, are they still around?  and the guy who got stuck in the boat with his friends?  c’mon guys, i think the shape of that shoreline,  is the shape of the rock and i don’t think anyone mentioned that before, just the shape of the park being the shape of the big rock.
forest, isn’t it time for a florida vacation?

It’s always time for a Florida vacation. Bud sadly, like my treasure hunting, my Florida vacations have been strictly armchair lately.

I think your in the right place.
Perhaps if you can get some photos and prove it is not there any more  you can email them to Preiss and see if he will relent and at least tell you if you are correct.
wilhouse

just a quick google search led me here:
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/histarch/menendez_02.htm
the caption “Fountain of Youth excavations during Spring 2000” make my heart sink.  Good Luck.

I honestly don’t believe Preiss would bury the casque in this kind of park.  There must be some where on the outskirts, in a more out of the way area, that fits…
wilhouse

rookhunter

I was reviewing this thread and I am fairly certain no one has dug at the location I posted above.
Stercox was close and I wish she was still active so she could weigh in on this. Given the nature of the verses, the above location isn’t just where I randomly think the treasure is, its the location Preiss gives us in the verse.
“Behind bending branches” isn’t a clue about the park, there are plenty of those in the verse.
Second, why put “
and
a green picket fence” if the fence doesn’t encompass a large area of the park? Those two lines of the verse are precise digging direction clues. Egbert must have seen this as well and took the pic you see in my last post. Now the tree is gone and there is a post of some kind there but the general spot should be untouched.
Someone posted in SA that the owner is planning a dig in Sept. I suggest (if anyone agrees) that we mail him this proposed solution. We might just convince him to dig or let us dig there. I dont see why he wouldn’t, that area is not in the archeological section of the park.   ;D

Hello Rookhunter (and everyone),
That is correct, I took the photo because I think the verse leads us there.  I actually probed there with a metal pole, all around the tree, and got nothing.  That was 6 years ago.  I was actually shown around the place by one of the former workers, known on these boards as Sawdusty.  I believe she no longer lives in the area, and there is now a new owner.  I actually have an alternative place in mind, and I was going to attempt a dig
yet again, in September.  You mentioned that the owner is going to be doing the same thing, and that you saw it on SA.  What is SA?!?!  A friend of mine now lives in St. Augustine, and he was going to contact the owner to get permission for us to dig.  I do not expect to find anything, but it is always fun to try.

Links:
SA is
SomethingAwful.com thread on The Secret
.
Yet another wiki, one that’s not dead yet

erexere

New ordering of lines to Verse 9 w/ interpretation-
The first chapter
– the first fraternity (crossover to the Boston casque)
Over the tall grass
– “over” is a clue to radio transmission protocol and the site I am considering is a field of tall grass
Near men
– men close together would point to the barracks in this setting
With wind rose
– is a radio compass
Written in water
– message in waves (supports the radio compass idea)
At the base of a tall tree
– “base” as in military outpost, a tree near it
Stars move by day
– flagpole with US flag at site
And a green picket fence
– “a green” is “GENERA-” or General Pickett
You can still hear the honking
– ?
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
– abalone
Sails pass by night
– light house
Even in darkness
– this and next two lines seem like instructions to line up a view
Like moonlight in teardrops
– something white inside a circle
Behind bending branches
– standing at a tree such that the white object is behind
Years pass, rain falls.
– erosion?
Architectural note on windows of Selby Abbey in the the town of Selby in North Yorkshire, England:  A notable feature of the Abbey is the 14th century Washington Window, featuring the heraldic arms of the ancestors of George Washington, the first president of the United States.The design is often cited as an influence for the Stars and Stripes flag.

I made several small changes to my original interpretation.  The lines have been rearranged a tad and this is the SELBY-PICKETT theory to be paired with Image 12 for a San Juan Island, Washington location.
If people have time to use these forums for discussion, I’d like to know if anyone else has ideas of their own about small clues in verse or image that crossover to another casque location.  As you can see I’ve marked the version 2.0 line of verse 9 as belonging to the Boston location.  I’m saying this because I’m trying to avoid over forcing the solution.  We can also discuss further the re-arrangement of the verse here to create a complete acrostic of TO NW WA SAYS SELBY.  A good poll question would be:  Does this rearrangement of the parts change the meaning of the whole so much that this is simply too unlikely? Y/N.
Another note about the SELBY idea cooperates with my claim that LANE from verse 5 was a reference to Joseph Lane.  Both William SELBY Harney and Joseph LANE were GENERALS in the Mexican-American War.
I’m sorry if I’m not attaching my theories to the fantasy angle of the book.  Fairies are cool to consider, but I’m working more from an American history angle as I believe progress will come from eventful moments that aren’t overwhelmingly known in common knowledge having to do with early presidents, wars, architecture, the founding of cities and towns, Native American history, and the history of slavery all might apply.  Who were the first members of Congress?  Who were the first Territorial Governors?  Who were the first Settlers to make contact with Native American Chiefs?  Who were the first Slaves to persevere and show dignity as they fought for freedom?  Where did significant cultural history take root and only result as a page 2 or back page story rather than a front page headline?  What were our first News papers in America?  Lots of little questions may very well have worthwhile answers.  Why was the Liberty Bell hidden in Allentown, PA for so long?  What’s the story about General Pickett having married a Native American princess?  Where is Fort Mandan and who built it?  Not all these questions specifically pertain, but these “cogs” must be allowed to turn if casques are to be found.  Cogs for Casques…I like the sound of that.

WhiteRabbit

Remember that only two casques have been found, and one was as a direct result of identifying three words on a sign. Words on signs are always worth watching out for.

I understand, but I want to emphasize my point that I have found a strong indication that it’s those introductory lines that do create a verse linear hunt for the casque.  With respect to FOY, sorry that I’m stooping so low to attack the theory, I’m very interested in where does Keat’s epitaph fit?  I see the entrance as a good place to start with the First Chapter, but then what?  It boggles my mind and even in your gatherings of tid bits in your theory I don’t see anything that suggests a good pointed path towards the casque.  It’s all completely up in the air with a sprinkled smattering of very convenient ideas.  I want so much to understand anyone elses take on things, just as long as it really makes sense.  Chicago and Cleveland make sense, maybe because they were constructed in a more simple way, but with the remaining puzzles taking the challenge up a notch, everyone is still wading around in the shallows.  Yes, I’m in the deep end and the water is fine, come on in, let’s get it done.

If there is a Si
mon
and a Pie
man
on top of a wind rose that you are standing next to, could that be considered near
men
with wind rose? Simple Simon and the Pieman were used as the logo of Howard Johnson’s restaurants and motor lodges from the 1930s onward, on a wind rose.
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
Simple
Simon
Says
E
L
O
Y
at the base of the tallest tree on the street, behind a green picket fence

How about we settle for an explanation of the second line?  Why Keats.  Why epitaph?

erexere

How about we settle for an explanation of the second line?  Why Keats.  Why epitaph?

http://himetop.wikidot.com/john-keats-memorial-tablet
Because this is adjacent to his epitaph:
“K-eats! if thy cherished name be “writ in water”
E-ach drop has fallen from some mourner’s cheek;
A-ssured tribute; such as heroes seek,
T-hough oft in vain – for dazzling deeds of slaughter
S-leep on! Not honoured less for Epitaph so meek!”
… and it points to the use of SELOY.
However, the epitaph is not an exact quote from the verse, but the FOY sign is.

Oh, excellent.  That makes the case for an acrostic.

erexere

Oh, excellent.  That makes the case for an acrostic.

… and the repetition of S makes the case for Simple Simon, no?

.

I thought you were joking.  That really is Simon and Pieman on the weathervane!  The same guy illustrated the Oz books also did that pic in the wiki article.  W.W. Denslow.

its been awhile since ive looked at this, has it ever been discussed what
is up with these 2 parks,i know one is a pay,what is the other
Gman sorta looks like a city park,maybe closed only entrance i see is at
the end of  east san carlos ave,the link has imgs, A. is the pay park
prob should have put this in the img thread
Gman @ E. san carlos ave
http://goo.gl/maps/nlbSu
A. the pay park
http://goo.gl/maps/UonZq
both areas
http://goo.gl/maps/bM8GW

stercox

Thanks Boogie–
I already drank from the fountain and it made me a girl….

yuck… Keep me away from that water!!!! LOL  Hey, sorry bout that.  You go girl!!!

Glossiphoniidae

the wall matches Ponce’s shirt, and the water pipe matches his arm. it’s right where the rein falls.

I like the wall and fence – it’s one of the best clues for this area of Magnolia Ave. But where exactly do you mean…?
It looks like there’s a drain cover in front of the fence. Is that likely to mean a pipe running between the road and fence, or alongside the fence…? It would be interesting to get a pic of any writing/numbers.
(I got a reply on another forum
here
from someone who might be visiting in the next couple of weeks if you wanted to make contact.)

ok then  lol  you guys are a hoot.

Unknown

Unknown:
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops

Returning to the business of Verse 9…
Perhaps it would be far too obvious to use the word
salt
in the verse for Salt Lake City, but the limestone still works for Utah.  “Stars move by day” could be a planetarium in any city, but the old Hansen Planetarium in SLC is constructed of limestone of a type containing tiny shells.
“Sails pass by night”, well, they have a marina on the Great Salt Lake, and sailboats are a common enough there. Here is a picture of the marina building:
http://home.earthlink.net/~travel179/images/UT022.JPG
Can you imagine the moonlight reflecting off those
teardrop
-shaped domes?
I am convinced that Image 11 has the exact longitude/latitude for SLC, and it is just a matter of matching a verse to it.  I will be working on this one for now.
(returned to add this)
— that photo is elsewhere labeled as the Saltair (one word) Pavillion or Palace, not the marina itself, but a building within view just a few miles up the coast.  There is an amusing description of the history of the site
here
— Saltair III opened in 1982.

don’t forget the browning poem:
http://www.marcraft.net/blog/?p=1025
Grow old along with me
The best is yet to be
Years pass, rain falls
it’s in the picture right after the cannons
or it’s just saying “fountain of youth”  at the end of the verse
or maybe it’s under the street SIGN “magnolia” at the base of the street
poke around ponce de leon!

chris, also……don’t forget about this slab, from stercox’s album and cw0909’s overlay on page 18 of “image 6 and other ramblings”
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i … ic=759.255
Site of the first
fort
San Jan
De Pinos
Built by
Pedro Menendez de Aviles
A.D. 1565
Destroyed 21 years later
By sir Francis Drake
1586
“at the base of a tall tree”…………..FORT=BASE………….DE PINOS=PINE, PINE TREE
so it would have all of it on that slab

ok, we all know what a wind rose is:
http://paintcafe.sympatico.ca/en/propos … rose_vent/
therefore, it is logical to assume that “Near men with wind rose” are navigators/sailors.  This also ties into “first chapter written in water”.  The V sounds more and more like the city needs to be on a coast.

A little help?
The old sign that used be accompany the Silver Salt Cellar exhibit at FOY used to refer to is as a ‘casque.’ The word Luella Day McConnell used to describe it – and of course where Preiss probably got the idea of using that term in his puzzles.
I’ve seen a (possibly cropped) image of it in WhiteRabbit’s Florida write-up (page 9 here)
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc … puzzle.pdf
When I reached out to WhiteRabbit (thank you for the info!) they said that it was taken by Stercox in 2007. (That photo archive is no longer working).
So I was wondering – does anyone here know more about the pic? Is 2007 the correct year for when it was taken? Does anyone mind sharing an original of the pic/file if they have one? Thanks in advance!

I visited the FoY in 2007 and took lots of photos. I believe one of them is the one you are talking about. Here is a link to the photos (hope it works):
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjJiTKuY
Edit: Just noticed I don’t have all my photos in there, so I will try to upload them to that link.

I’ve been wondering if its possible somehow to determine whether some locations were meant to be easier than others or which is meant to be the hardest.  Probably they are simply one way or another and this question has no meaning.  The only thing I can think of is to seek answers within the historic register.  “Lane” was the name of my first school after Joseph Lane.  “Two twenty two” followed easily after focusing on Oregon.  The rest of the verse breakdown “see Image 6 and other ramblings” and Verse 5 thread for details, didn’t look impossibly tricky although each image element had a small disguise.  Local knowledge and familiarity play the most vital role first in getting on track and then at the end when you have to be right on the site most central.

Unknown

Unknown:
i think this mainly because it says “the first chapter written in water near men”  now in the image there is a water mass in the back ground and a man on a horse standing on top of a rock.

Now, if you continue on with the flow of the V,  it would state:  “near men with wind rose”.  This too, could be referring to Columbus and his men as Rabbit talked of in later entry.  Men with wind rose would definitely be sailors of yesteryear.
It may be a stretch but…. could the symbol on our conquistador’s flag be that of a wind rose?…or that of just a simple “rose” flapping on the banner in the “wind”?

Yes it seems that anything IS possible….Welcome and good idea! It seems that any direct coorelations between verse and picture have been red herrings but you never know.

there maybe more linking Image 6 to Verse 9 the man sitting on his horse ontop of the rock he is wearing French style armor maybe meaning somthing related to Christopher Collumbus. Now a common missconception is were he landed he first landed in Cuba which is close to Florida and the French occupide Florida for a long time.
also in Verse 9 it says “Years pass, rain falls”. Now Florida has the highest rainfall in the country this might be realted to that. Also “Shell, limestone, silver, salt” all can be found in Florida and the rock that the French man is standing on could be made of limestone.
lastly the clouds in the background in Image 6 are storm clouds relating to the whole “years pass, rain fall” part which points even more twoard Florida.
so basically the French man, the clouds, and the shell limestone silver salt all could point to Florida.

Have you made the local archaeologists aware of the situation? I can imagine they would jump at the chance to help you locate the casque if (1) you explain the situation to them and (2) narrow down the likely burial spot to a reasonably searchable area. Ground-penetrating radar is probably standard equipment in such investigations.
Plan B: show up at midnight with wilhouse’s back-hoe, a mag-lite, and a few buddies.
I just chuckled at a thought. Wouldn’t it be hilarious if the artifact display case at the park contains “fragments of a mysterious 16th-century concrete urn, retaining some of its original paint, containing a key fashioned in the Spanish style, discovered at a depth of approximately two feet…”

Flat and Marshy, No rocks at all.  I think that rock is “impressionistic” at best, it offers up a few clues (like the 82 longitude) but I think that’s about it.  It really reminds me of the corroded spanish cannons in the park.  The dig site and all the confirmers of the site are in the verse.  I’m still working on this one with contacts down in the park, but it is frustrating.  From my interpretation of the verse, I am convinced that the last marker, the tree, no longer exists because of hurricanes.  I know that this is the right place–and the casque isn’t going anywhere.  Lately, there have been archeologists in the park this summer.  But the HOT SPOT (where I think the treasure may be) is not near where they usually do their field work.  Oddly enough, you can’t even excavate for building a new house in St. Augustine without an archeologist clearing your site first. They’re that serious about it.

Egbert

Here is what St. Augustine looks like after Hurricane Matthew. Here is Magnolia Ave:
http://imgur.com/gallery/k8aGz

Unknown

Unknown:
In other news….the FoY just received a National Historic designation, which may severely limit digging, and will no doubt increase penalties for unauthorized digging:
http://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/st-johns-county/st-augustine/fountain-of-youth-receives-national-historic-designation

I guess this means the casque is now “under” and no longer “behind” bending branches.
Not to promote digging in an area where we shouldn’t be or anything, but I don’t think a “designation” impedes on the physical aspect of retrieving a casque – only the legal aspect. The lack of park guards and near darkness made digging there quite easy in the past, and I don’t think a random placard somewhere is going to make it any harder in the future.

Guyra,
“”There are artworks depicting them creating the first chapter of the church while still standing in the water after first disembarking.  So this is what we attributed to “The first chapter written in water”.”
That is brilliant!
Stercox,
“I am also haunted by the rock–tree combination, my personal theory is that this is a fine tuning clue, I believe that the tree pictured is actually “the tall tree” and is the final landmark–that the orientation of the rock–tree, when found, will give you the “Eureka! That’s It!!” that we are looking for.”
I have to agree with you here.  One thing that always bothered me about that combination makes a lot of sense now…  why isnt the tree reflected in the water when the rock is?  It is because they arent together..literally.  It may be that you have to line the two up while standing near the dig site.  You know…walk around the tree {which is on land} until you see the rock/island behind it.  This could be the way to tell you which side of the tree to dig at.
Keep up the great work you two… looks like another casque may be ready for some Florida sunshine after 20+ years underground.

fox

Last time I checked, Corbett OR is not a port city and has nothing to do with immigration.  Heck, it isnt even a well known city like both Chicago & Cleveland (found casques) as well as all of the other potential casque cities.  It just doesnt fit.

Ummm…Portland IS a port city.  I lived there, watched Navy battleships come in every year.  Corbett is just minutes away from the Portland Airport.  The Columbia River is the first and primary reason for US expansion and trade in the early frontier movement west since Captain Robert Gray and Lewis and Clark.  Come on people.
I think its necessary to have a quad-espresso right now…okay half done…needs sugar….ahhh thats just right.  Ok, I’m not looking for the goldilocks treatment here…just a little frustrated when encountering objections that dont have any weight.  I realize that Corbett specifically isnt on the world list of ports.  It is basically a hill with ports down below on either side extending farther east to Umatilla and Walla Walla and the Snake River and Portland to the west.
Good try Fox, but if it has to be said, I think for fit sake, I only pinpointed the location based on Lane and 2 and 22.  I never had to force any of my solution because it fit in a shocking way and Image 6 was the clear winner.  I had no preconceptions based on anyones research here before I started.  My approach as a poetry contest organizer led me to look more objectively at the verse and its use of figurative and literal word choice.

available for $20 for the next 10 days at:
http://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Ma … qOFPLK8ugU

Last time I checked, Corbett OR is not a port city and has nothing to do with immigration.  Heck, it isnt even a well known city like both Chicago & Cleveland (found casques) as well as all of the other potential casque cities.  It just doesnt fit.

SELOY: The name of the village the FOY park sits on.  Other uncommon words from the verse are written, plainly, on signs in the park.  Also, the Fountain of Youth is a direct tie-in to the overall theme of The Secret — the settling of the New World.
SELBY: The name of an obscure, unnotable figure from an unnotable event in American history, which, requires reordering the verses and yet another layer of interpreting an anagram to get there.
I’d want there to be a casque buried in my backyard, too, but this isn’t it.

I hesitate to think Seloy isnt the least bit obscure.  Is it really necessary to defend that level of opinion?  I’m not about to argue history or its absolute relevance.  Selby existed, and holds much significance as many others who are important to this country’s history.
I cant claim to care about whas in my backyard.
You are being rude by any standards.
The comparative argument of selecting a reordered or anagramed vs ignoring two thirds of the acrostic is intelligent but to rule one over the other without better consideration isnt very smart.

From FOY this morning: “Entirely possible on the quiet street. Interestingly, the wall curves hard to the right just behind the hydrant. I think I need to dig….”
Fingers crossed.

Point taken…let me try a different approach.
Cleveland
Chicago
Milwaukee
New Orleans
Boston
Corbett
One of these things is not like the others………..

Deuce, I like the Longfellow delvings.  The metaphor of ships in the night sparks some thought.

rookhunter

Good luck to you Sir Egbert. May I suggest that you take tons of pics and perhaps pictures that we just can’t get from google.
For example all along the inside edge of the shell fence, the opposite side of the planetarium and maybe even panoramic pics of certain spots in the park.

Yes, pictures of the shells on the wall. I wondered if there would be a particular pattern of shells or texture that matched the rock markings in the image as a confirmation that gives the exact place to dig.
oops, I am too late.

Glossiphoniidae

You’d be hard pressed to make me believe that most copula-style weather vane’s are not considered wind roses, including the one on the planetarium and the HoJo. Where am I going wrong?

I am relying on the dictionary definition of “wind rose”:
TheFreeDictionary
:
A meteorological diagram depicting the distribution of wind direction and speed at a location over a period of time.
Merriam-Webster
:
A diagram showing for a given place the relative frequency or frequency and strength of winds from different directions.
Dictionary.com
:
1. a map symbol showing, for a given locality or area, the frequency and strength of the wind from various directions.
2. a diagram showing the relation of wind direction to other weather conditions at a given location.
A wind rose simply isn’t the same thing as a weathervane.
TheFreeDictionary
:
A device for indicating wind direction.
Merriam-Webster
:
An object that is usually put on the top of a roof and that has an arrow that turns as the wind blows to show the direction of the wind.
Dictionary.com
:
A device, as a rod to which a freely rotating pointer is attached, for indicating the direction of the wind.
A weathervane and a wind rose are different things, plain and simple.

Just got back from the Fountain and from St George St. Forrest…LOL..I do believe that the last fountain picture you showed is the correct one. Only the top was changed. If I remember correctly, the fountain outside the planetarium had the girl and boy with umbrella sitting on top of the pedestal that is currently holding the cherub. Fits pretty good with years pass..rain falls.
Took a lot of pictures of trees and monuments together and as soon as I get them developed, will send them to Stercox to include in the collection so that if we get more bad storms and lose more trees, at least we know where the big ones are now! More later.

Maybe thats because bamboo IS a true grass!

Trohn and SawDusty – If that fountain was right outside the planetarium, I’ll bet it WAS the source of “rain falls.” Where, precisely, was the fountain located back then?

Pinetree-
welcome back to the hunt de jour.
everyday, we travel to another remote location, and
have a virtual tour
I like all of your thoughts and as Stercox indicated, she started looking at the coastline as well,
but I think (in a huge area such as this) BP gave us a few clues on how to narrow it down.
The green fence can not be a narrowing down clue, since there are at least
three long green fences at various places in the park.
I think he selected ‘near men’ to be the narrowing down clue.  The men in the park are:
Ponde de Leon
Chief Tumucuan
1st Encounters
Also, I think that his phrasing (and our scouring of the site) indicates that no statue
has a ‘wind rose’ with them… so we must read the next line as “near men” and “also near a
wind rose”
There is a (sort of) wind rose on top of the planetarium.  Or as indictaed, the duck pond is in
the shape of a wiind rose.
I am using the image of the flag (with the obelisk design) as a reference to orient oneself at the site.
The flag pole being a survey’s line of sight.  The casque being a few degrees south of the line of east/west
from the obelisk.

Do we know what the sign saids in this photo?
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 … 0493uUWaOY

Trohn – there is an ACTUAL WIND ROSE inside the planetarium. This has to be the wind rose referred to in the verse. There are even MEN near it. Can’t we say that part of the puzzle has been solved and move on to less certain parts?

Unknown

Unknown:
…there is an ACTUAL WIND ROSE inside the planetarium. This has to be the wind rose referred to in the verse. There are even MEN near it.

Unknown

Unknown:
I know that several portions of this differ significantly from Stercox’s theory, especially as pertains to the Planetarium.

Forest wrote:
That’s what I meant when I wrote:
It’s just that I’m not certain that “near” means “really, really near” as opposed to just “also in the FOY park”, like the “silver, salt” stuff.
Pine

And now that I’m taking the time to look back through all the recent posts and links, I think the person who took the picture in the following link was standing within feet of the casque site, looking SE…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68771462@N00/349744340/
…and I think this picture from Stercox shows the casque site.  I would be near the base of the scraggly trees by the tabby wall.  There used to be a fence across this view.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 … 0493qzPJfr
This one too, beneath the taller of the trees on the right:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 … 0493hMaSmh

The first chapter      Entrance
Written in water
Near men
With wind rose
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
You can still hear the honking    Goose Pen
Shell, limestone, silver, salt    Ponce Cross/Springhouse
Stars move by day    Planetarium
Sails pass by night    Discovery Golbe
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops    midpark fountain
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.

I am getting ready to go to the park and check on a few things..Trohn, the white sign was not there during BP’s time if that is the one you are talking about.

More high quality photos of the park.
Note the purple flowers…
http://www.sunandseabeachweddings.com/F … youth.html

I am also going to visit St. George st to look for the fountain that got transferred there. I believe it is this one but I need to get better pictures.
http://www.oldestwoodenschoolhouse.com/

http://family.webshots.com/photo/208956 … 0493wCCONH
Dam! That must have been rough.  I sweat looking at it.  I wish that it didn’t have to be so secretive.
Maybe those digs could have been avoided.  Or yet, we probably wouldn’t be this close
without them.  Again-
You know how we like to talk each other out of ideas.
Anyway, I respect the silence, you never know who is lurking on this site waiting to dig.
Pine Tree, welcome back old timer.  Love your ideas.  You should get down there and give
the girls a hand. (You’re a dude, right?) 50/50 chance you’re going to be digging twice.
i think Fox should change his summer plans to New York and join all of you.  The Fountain of Youth
will make you young again!!!!! (just stay away from the water LOL)

Ya know, it turns out that a hole full of roots in St. Augustine looks a lot like a hole full of roots in Milwaukee, doesn’t it?
Yes, I’m a, um, “dude”.
Speaking of roots, you know that tall palm tree just SE of the PDL statue that looks so tempting?  When we went in 2005, i brought in some long probe rods (easily hidden in the frame of a big honkin’ double jog stroller) and surreptitiously tested the ground all around it.  Roots galore, all over the place.  Very hard to find any clear sand.
Pine

An interesting note: There are 82 petals on the asters in P6, by my count. 82 is also depicted in the rock, and is one of the bounding longitudes for St. Augustine.
If this is the fountain that was moved, it bears a passing resemblance to the pattern on Ponce’s flag:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcanen57/154304866/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mary-heather/183883630/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/docblade/68006254/
There is another large fountain further south (on King St.) that has roughly this shape. For neither fountain is it possible to say that the curved parts form a circle, however.
This looks like your fountain, SawDusty (ha! get it? Fountain of
youth
??):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallingpants/329808630/

forest_blight

An interesting note: There are 82 petals on the asters in P6, by my count. 82 is also depicted in the rock, and is one of the bounding longitudes for St. Augustine.
If this is the fountain that was moved, it bears a passing resemblance to the pattern on Ponce’s flag:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcanen57/154304866/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mary-heather/183883630/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/docblade/68006254/
There is another large fountain further south (on King St.) that has roughly this shape. For neither fountain is it possible to say that the curved parts form a circle, however.
This looks like your fountain, SawDusty (ha! get it? Fountain of
youth
??):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallingpants/329808630/

Forrest-
That fountain…… Rain Falls!!!

niteowl9

Bamboo == tall grass?

i love this man!  (I lived with bamboo in the backyard many years ago, it does grow like weeds, and has green leaves that look like blades of grass while living)

erexere

A comment on Oregonian’s pbwiki caught my attention. User FippinArkansas mentioned a “years pass” may be purchased for park access. I like the idea of limiting our scope to a place that one might have an annual pass access like a National Park.

You rang? Thanks for the shoutout!
So the “years pass” combined with the “moonlight in teardrops”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_trailer
leads me to think state or national park such as Anastasia State Park, just in front of which is the Old Spanish Quarry. Does anyone know if one could purchase a year’s pass back in 1982? Any other thoughts?

he might not have wrote the part about the “fair folks”  but i’m sure he read them and probably added to them.  He might have even written the “spotter’s tips”.
and in the “spotter’s tips”  it  says “dedicated followers”
dedicated can mean  “address”
follower can mean “behind”
and the pic says “how do i look from behind?”
i know that could mean anything, behind the “fountain of youth sign”?  behind the fountain of youth itself (the spring house) ?  or behind the words “11 magnolia avenue”
or #10 magnolia, because when u put the cask together it makes a #10

Unknown

Unknown:
I agree with stercox that BP must have gotten the word “casque” from the salt cellar sign in the FOY park.

Actually that was
Pine
‘s idea–but I agree with both of you guys.  It is a fun, little connection.

Unknown

Unknown:
Is there any chance we could obtain a transcript of the narrative that accompanies the Planetarium show? Clearly BP paid admission and watched it, drawing inspiration for a couple of lines. Maybe we could draw inspiration from it as well.

We might be able to get this from the owner–he actually has a great broadcasting voice and has done the voice overs for the programs in the planetarium and in the Discovery Globe.  We could check…