Yes — Seloy is obscure.  But like the other words from the verse, it’s also
written on signs in the FOY park
.  BP didn’t expect anyone to know Seloy — but if they saw it in the park, and recognized it from the verse, they’d know they were in the right spot.  The acrostic doesn’t have to run the full length of the verse for it to be a deliberate confirmer.
Incidentally, I like at least one of your ideas a lot, actually — the Boston/optometry one.  It’s a very close match to the image, and it ties in, in a clever (but clear) way to points in the verse.
On this one, I think your process is favoring obscurity over simplicity, way beyond what I believe BP intended here.  Obviously I’m not the arbiter of that.  But if there’s any chance of digging up another casque, the FOY is the best possible shot that exists right now, and efforts would be better spent towards finding where, exactly, it is buried on that site.

Thanks for the nod, I think you meant the Church of Scientology building’s panel, yes, it’s next to the Optometrist College.  Someone really needs to get their shovels into Boston, I bet there’s a good chance that casque will surface.
As for obscurity over simplicity…I can’t argue with that.  It’s a complicated thing just to tell you what I think is simple…Preiss’ challenge hasn’t really given us the simple option, otherwise this conversation wouldn’t be happening 30 years late.

I really like shseverin11’s mention of Virginia Woolf’s book, To the Lighthouse, which has a close tie to “Years pass, rain falls”.
Regardless of the painted color of a fence, if it’s perceived on a background of green, the negative space might be described as pickets of green.

Thanks burn — those are good pictures.

Hello everyone.  I went to the Fountain of Youth this past Sunday and met with the owner.
We did not have that long to talk, but it was still wonderful getting to walk around the park again and see the various connections between the park and the verse.
I have pics that I would like to post, but I really do not know how to do that.  If someone could let me know, I will post them.
The information I received was helpful, but not in the way you would think.  For example, many of the palms that are candidates for where the treasure may be, were not very tall 30 years ago.  That knocked out my prime candidate of the palm tree near the driveway entrance, next to the green picket fence which is perpendicular to Magnolia Ave.  In addition, many tall palms from 30 years ago have been removed either by choice, or from storms.  The owner is going to see if he has photos from back then, and if he does, he will let me know.
As for the old entrance at the South end of the park, that was closed to the public decades ago, and BP would not have had access in 1980.  It was “a mess” back then, and the fence there was not green, as far as the owner recalls.  He confirmed, though, that the green picket fences are pretty much the ones that “the consensus” has agreed on (there was an overhead photo posted earlier in this thread on it).
There was both a goose pen and a duck pond, again in the same place that we thought they were.  There was also only 1 security guard back then, so BP would have had to be careful back then.  So, perhaps this means that he would not have buried it in the middle of the park.

The most disappointing news, though, is that when we were looking at the planetarium display case, he was pretty sure that the wind rose was not there 30 years ago, and he did not recall whether the ship cutaway with the little men was there.  So, the “near men with wind rose” becomes quite a puzzler.
In 1980, the park had a lot more “overgrowth,” with lots of tall bamboo all over the place, along with oleanders.  Bending branches?  Tall grass?  Possibly.  I also noticed that out by the water, there was tall grass below the wall of the park.  So, if you are standing on the wall, you would be “over the tall grass.”  However, the wall was not there 30 years ago!  It was just a slow degradation from the park into the water, with tall grass at the water.  The tall bamboo was near the Ponce de Leon statue, and on the side of the park near the Globe Discovery theater, and the various little buildings of the indian village displays.  The bamboo was also on the north side of the park.
As for Magnolia Avenue, there was only 1 house on the street back then – the one across from where the green picket fence meets the wall.  So, if BP was going to bury something there (and there are a couple of trees there), he would be in danger of being seen, even at night.  However, the owner did not know if that area was lit up at night, so maybe BP would not have been seen.
There is no way to dig at the park without getting special permission from the owner, the city, and a supervising archaeologist.  The owner seems to have been a bit “ticked” by all of the treasure hunters that have contacted him over the past few years.  I am hoping that he will continue to communicate with me, so I can get more info and photos that only he will have.  I will let you know if I get anything interesting.  Sorry I do not have more exciting news.

All very interesting, Egbert!
I’m really torn about the “wind-rose” news. On the one hand, I find it really hard to believe that with all the signage references in the verse, BP would have accidentally/coincidentally chosen the words “wind rose;” especially, with all the seeming references to the planetarium. On the other hand, this makes the Simon and the Pieman… SSS… theory a little more interesting – A wind rose that was most certainly there 30 years ago.
The stuff about the bamboo is also a tangible wrench. As you pointed out, it fits the bill for both “bending branches” and “over the tall grass.”
Also, was there seriously NO houses on Magnolia, assuredly? Even across from the park?
Glad you got to make a trip, and I hope you had a great adventure!

Thanks for the report Egbert. Great work. If your pics are on your cellphone, try a Dropbox, Flickr or even Photobucket account so you can upload them and share them from your cell.
We need ground penetrating scans to find most of these treasures, this is becoming more and more clear. I’m going to refocus my efforts to finding a reasonable cost GPR or something similar. If we had such a device then we could scan these areas and show the evidence to the people we need to ask permission from.

OK… this may be a stretch, but I kinda like it…
Even in darkness (can’t see = blind)
Like moonlight in teardrops (Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata = deaf)
Super moving tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0WMYCtOqeU
St. Augustine Deaf and Blind Institute is just down the street. I could swear that the window above the door is the shape on the flag:

Thanks for the report Egbert – I like the bamboo idea…but feel the chances of finding a casque at FOY have just dropped considerably.

Glossiphoniidae

OK… this may be a stretch, but I kinda like it…
Even in darkness (can’t see = blind)
Like moonlight in teardrops (Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata = deaf)
Super moving tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0WMYCtOqeU
St. Augustine Deaf and Blind Institute is just down the street. I could swear that the window above the door is the shape on the flag:

Nice catch on the banner. Is there anything else around the institute that raises possibilities? Blind/deaf idea is intriguing.

Boogieman, that looks like an oak to me….Stercox, your favorite thing…more huge roots!! With the orientation of the tree, you might get lucky and have a lot of the roots growing out toward the water, though it is saltwater.

let me try it this way…salty water

I try to put myself in the author’s shoes for a minute. You are a young college age man in a strange southern town at night, carrying around a shovel and going to dig at a very very dark park full of hugh tree roots and noisy animals. I think what ever place he picked would have been easy to get to, easy to identify and hopefully not full of big tree roots in order to place the casque. You go to your spot, dig your hole, drop it in and take a last look around, and get the heck out of there before you get caught! He may have used the daylight hours after the park closed and before dark or early in the morning before the park opened, he would have the advantage of the light but a greater chance of being discovered.

Love It!!   Lots of good ideas floating around.  I know that its hard to orient yourself and the webshots rearranger is still not working.  This may help give you a better sense of the different areas and of scale that the park’s yellow hand drawn map does not.  I have added the green fences, ones I’m definitely sure about, Sawdusty–so glad to finally see you on these boards!!!!!!!!
I could not remember the orientation for the fences near and round the gift shop that well, so its my best guess.  Do I have it right?  Been really busy since posting all that mess and trying to get caught up at work.  I’ll join in the discussion tomorrow.  Thanks all.

Stercox, just read this whole thread again and, besides us working together and all,
this one’s all yours!  I’m shocked that it took some of us this long to jump in.  I
hope we can help you solve the last bit of it.  BTW, this last map is awesome.  thanks.
I like your first thoughts on this from your 2005 posts,
towards the coastline
.
Now, I won’t say I’m right here, but I like it.  And since you’ve been there with Sawdusty,
how about this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68771462@N00/349813947/
edit: I like the tree on the right, but the one on the left would do as well,
with that mysterious red marking at the bootom of the wall.

Ok, just playing around with trying to analyze and compare the sat. image with P6.  Take a look at this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15615105@N00/445708803/
For those that are trying to use the jewel to pinpoint a location, this analysis could lead you to what appears to be a large tree (labeled “1”) that is near Ponce (based on the layout in stercox previously posted picture).  Is this indeed an existing tree that is offset from the rest a little bit?  Is it in any of the photos in the webshots album?

Hey, pretty good 2fast!  Could be that tree, or it could be Ponce…

Here is a link to an album on flickr that has some photos of the park at some different parts and/or different angles…some of them are interesting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68771462@N … inofyouth/

Sawdusty

Boogieman, that looks like an oak to me….Stercox, your favorite thing…more huge roots!! With the orientation of the tree, you might get lucky and have a lot of the roots growing out toward the water, though it is salpregnant fisher.

(Love these filters)
I was thinking there would be less roots against the stone wall, in line with the base of the tree.
Yes, one is an oak, the one on the right, but the one to the left is a palm.
Behind bending branches
though, makes it the oak. I’m guessing here, but would you
be able to see the geese or pond from behind the wall?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68771462@N00/349813947/

Sawdusty

To the right of this building you would see a hugh stand of bamboo and then the Indian burial grounds.

Bamboo == tall grass?

This picture looks like it is taken from the back of the ponce statue. At this angle, the duck pond would be directly in front of statue itself.

Is there any chance we could obtain a transcript of the narrative that accompanies the Planetarium show? Clearly BP paid admission and watched it, drawing inspiration for a couple of lines. Maybe we could draw inspiration from it as well.

I agree with stercox that BP must have gotten the word “casque” from the salt cellar sign in the FOY park. The real definition of “casque” is a helmet – the kind that goes with a suit of armor. Only in FOY and in
The Secret
– and nowhere else – has the word casque been used to describe a container. BP must have simply assumed that’s what it meant, and adopted it for his hunt. His use of the word “casque” in this way provides yet more evidence (as if we needed any) that this one is buried in the FOY park.
I have a reprinting of a 1956 booklet from the Fountain of Youth with a drawing of the silver salt cellar. The caption reads: “Full size drawing of
“Silver Casque”
by Goold T. Butler, Civil Engineer. The original was five inches in height.”

I hope so too

good luck indeed cobock!  let us know what you guys find and make sure to take lots of pics…you never know what some of us may see in them that you did not notice.

good luck cobock1!

Glossiphoniidae

Not to be a dick, Erexere, but your post is filled with numerous false assertions and, quite frankly, if I didn’t know better, I would think you were trying to throw the rest of us off track.

I’m on a different track, that’s all.  I’m not trying to throw you off track, or be a dick.  You may engage my post or ignore it.  I’ve stated my opinion and rarely have I criticized anyone’s theories.  I’m not exactly good with my writing or skilled in debate.  I just have my own thoughts and I’m trying to work them out in a sensible way, supported by research and hopefully identifying a functional framework for solving these puzzles.
Which of my assertions are false?

Glossiphoniidae

I have actually seen both of these, and I posted a frame grab of the geese over on the wiki…

I just realized something… those are not gooses. Those are swans. Swans honk. How ’bout the trumpeter swan? And that is not a goose pond… that is the FOY Swan Pool. I always took the fact that there was a flock of geese on the merit that I heard it here. I was never able to actually substantiate it… anybody?
http://secretwiki.tomburns.net/images/c/c3/FOY_Goose_Pond.jpg
–
really a swan pool.
http://secretwiki.tomburns.net/images/3/3d/FOY_geese.jpg
–
not two gooses
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/White_swan-goose.JPG
–
swans
http://secretwiki.tomburns.net/images/e/e4/FOY_park_map.jpg
–
swan pool

A FOY remark,
Something I discovered that connects smoothly with the weathervane.  The word origin for -vane applies to fane or fana meaning flag or banner.  Alternatively we have a weathercock, given the common usage of a rooster as an indicator. Wind direction is a notable connection given the mention of the wind rose.  If you really think the casque is in FOY, it makes sense to keep a strict line of sight on that ship shaped weathervane.
On another note, which may be juvenile and considered taboo, I think the last line “years pass, rain falls” might be connected to “pi $ $ing”.  Years = old people, which may pass “stones”.  Alternatively, the subject of “erosion” would suggest an old stone object that has clear signs of erosion.  I’m sure everything in FOY looks old in that way…or is there something in particular that fits someone’s FOY theory?
When I consider the San Juan Island interpretation, I like the interpretive markers and tourist pamphlet that both highlight the prairie of tall grass and the abundance of glacial erratics that populate the landscape as if they fell from the sky…

erexere

On another note, which may be juvenile and considered taboo, I think the last line “years pass, rain falls” might be connected to “pi $ $ing”.  Years = old people, which may pass “stones”.  Alternatively, the subject of “erosion” would suggest an old stone object that has clear signs of erosion.  I’m sure everything in FOY looks old in that way…or is there something in particular that fits someone’s FOY theory?

tinajones!

This is why I wish the image and verse combo was it’s own topic.
I forget what I read elsewhere and get confused too easily
feeling stupid today

fox

yup…gotta agree w/ reg here johann…perhaps you missed it…but, where are those photos of the park entrance w/ those words on it?  I can not seem to find them anymore.

The entrance to the park has the plaque describing the “first chapter”
but it is probably displayed elsewhere in the park.
The exit has flags/banners of a simialr design and color as that of
in Image six.  It is likely they also are elsewhere in the park.
I have not got a good solid photo of them to post for comparison.
The “old Senator” feet from the FOY park doees not have a green picket
fence around it.
From the park’s gate to the actual park, you have two blocks of tree lined streets
(Magnolias most likely) that have many many bending branches.
In the park itsel, besides the ‘well’,
you have a globe (for displaying of the explorers and the lands around the world)
and you have “Navigators’ Planetarium” where the stars are displayed from the time of the landing
at St Augstine.  (stars move by day)
The park is on the Intercoastal.  I wonder what part of the park
is east, looking overe the water?

yup…gotta agree w/ reg here johann…perhaps you missed it…but, where are those photos of the park entrance w/ those words on it?  I can not seem to find them anymore.

Oops.  My bad.  Sorry, y’all.

no prob Johann…even the best of us slip up occasionally

Update:
A few people sent me their dig sites, and I checked each one out. I used a 6ft ground probe and probed 3-4ft down in a grid pattern every 6 inches. Here is what I found.
Foy exit:
http://i.imgur.com/h5CZPTr.jpg
I probed a 4 foot circle around the light pole. I found a crap ton of oyster shells.
Service entrance:
http://i.imgur.com/WzCw8p9.jpg
I probed the entire area from wall to street and from sidewalk to cannon… I found a bunch of oysters and a tin can.
Service ebtrance cannon:
http://i.imgur.com/V9kUIaG.jpg
These things have a base buried in the ground that seems to go a few foot down and spread 6-10in from the base of the cannon.
I probed and area 4 foot or so around the cannon. There was a section of what looked like collapsed dirt directly behind the cannon which was about a foot square in size.
I dug 3 ft down with post hole diggers in the center of the area and found nothing.
Hotel fence area:
http://i.imgur.com/SjuqBti.jpg
I tried to probe as much as I could here. But there are far too many roots and pipes.
It would be almost impossible to dig.

i know i havent been on in a while but i still havent stoped searching now i did fine were the flower in image 6 is located and one of it common areas of growth is in the panhaddle of florida so im still sticking with the florida idea

Sabatia bartramii thats the name of the flower and it grows in watery areas

thanks for the advise–will check with some resources I have.

I think you’ve got it, Stercox!  Well, at least the right area.  BTW, did you notice that the Silver Salt sign mentions a “casque”?  lol.
As for the exact location, would you have been permitted to dig in the place where you thought the casque would have been?  If not, then that is probably not where it is buried.
I see the angle to which you refer between the tree and the rock.  However, I do not think that it tells you where to dig.  I think that the picture gets you to the general place (which you have found), but then the verse tells you exactly where to dig.
Nice job!

I was reviewing this thread and I am fairly certain no one has dug at the location I posted above.
Stercox was close and I wish she was still active so she could weigh in on this. Given the nature of the verses, the above location isn’t just where I randomly think the treasure is, its the location Preiss gives us in the verse.
“Behind bending branches” isn’t a clue about the park, there are plenty of those in the verse.
Second, why put “
and
a green picket fence” if the fence doesn’t encompass a large area of the park? Those two lines of the verse are precise digging direction clues. Egbert must have seen this as well and took the pic you see in my last post. Now the tree is gone and there is a post of some kind there but the general spot should be untouched.
Someone posted in SA that the owner is planning a dig in Sept. I suggest (if anyone agrees) that we mail him this proposed solution. We might just convince him to dig or let us dig there. I dont see why he wouldn’t, that area is not in the archeological section of the park.

bigtd35

Hi, new to this forum and first post for me.  I believe that the Ponce De Leon (Mosquito) lighthouse is the right location….but trying to figure out where it is in relation to that.  Any one in FL want to work together on this?  Drop me an email

The lighthouse may be the place. If you see my post under literary references, the last line in verse 9  is a reference to Virginia Wolf’s poem “To the Lighthouse.”  Therefore you could read the last line in the v as a direction to go “to the lighthouse.”
Shannon

At FOY
If you go straight through the main gate,
straight across the parking lot there is a gated access road but you can walk right past the gate.
pass the main entrance on your right, you come to a picnic area (outside the FOY offical park)
continue to the end of the picnic area,
there is a green picket fence. you are basically in rock throwing distance of men with windrose.
and you can see the roof of the planetarium dome
Behind the fence are several tall trees and overgrown bushes,
If you look to your left you can see the house of the FOY property owner.
I was not able to investigate this area any further because it was posted on the picket fence.
“Nesting Birds” do not pass this point.
That area needs further investigation.

Wow, White Rabbit, thanks for posting that.  That is very interesting! Hopefully, my friend can get in touch with John Fraser before our visit in September.

Just read through this entire forum. Great analysis guys. Why now silent? With the recent Reddit and Boing Boing posts and the upcoming documentary, I expected lots of new interest.

Couple of thoughts on the FOY version.
I’m wondering if you actually need to enter FOY at all on this trail, or whether all the action takes place just outside in Magnolia.
The first chapter
Written in water
“First chapter” sign seen from the road:
Near men
With wind rose
(Can’t remember what this is, some FOY information board about sailors or something)
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
Further down the road is this green picket fence at the base of a tall tree, and the wall pattern resembling Ponce’s jacket.
These lines have previously been taken to indicate a spot which is at the base of a tall tree, and which is behind bending branches and a green picket fence within FOY. But there’s another way to read it.
If you were at the bottom of Magnolia just beyond this, it would be behind you. In other words, continue down Magnolia from the sign, to that place behind the bending branches of the trees that line the road, and that green picket fence that’s at the base of a tall tree.
You can still hear the honking
The goose pen somewhere on the other side of the wall.
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
The wall of oyster shells, and a reference to FOY’s “casque”, the silver salt cellar.
Stars move by day
The FOY planetarium, which you can see from the spot by the picket fence:
Sails pass by night
Even in darkness
Not sure
Like moonlight in teardrops
Could be: like moonlight (silver) in teardrops (salt), another reference to the silver salt cellar, and/or a reference to the arab myth of oyster pearls being dewdrops filled with moonlight.
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.
The years of youth pass, the “rain” is from a fountain; hence Fountain of Youth, over the long grass by the wall.
I previously mentioned the shape of the undulating wall in the clouds and rock edge of this image. This can also be seen in the flag. I’m convinced the casque is in the cannon area, where the verge widens like the flag, but I’m still not entirely sure where. I suspect that the strange shapes in the horse and rider might hold a clue.

I’m thinking there is a good possibility for a casque in FOY, but I’m interested in using a verse other than 9 and image other than 6 if possible.  Image 3?  A windmill in the area?  Knight of ‘column’ ‘bust’ (Columbus?)…

How can you like the location but not what got you there?  Without I6 and V9 you wouldn’t even be at FOY…much less even in Florida.

fox

How can you like the location but not what got you there?  Without I6 and V9 you wouldn’t even be at FOY…much less even in Florida.

You don’t miss a detail, Fox!
My reasoning isn’t based on any hard evidence, only a suspicion that lots of similarities collectively point to St. Augustine and whether Preiss or Palencar drew from that place as a resource to throw us into a maze of red herrings or to pair a most unlikely seeming V and P to a specific location nearby is unclear.  I’m still 100% on P6V5 being Oregon and I’m 95% on four other pairings.  Although many passing ideas haven’t led to a strong connection to a P or V location, some spark of significance might still be worth considering.  I won’t ignore a detail simply because I have an alternative in mind.  I need to understand why a detail fails to meet a verifiable criteria.  Preiss’ constructions are precise on some level.  Looking at the Cleveland and Chicago solves has helped me understand that much.

don’t forget about this casque people.  ONE STEP AWAY.

I always thought the pointed parts more resembled (archway closed door under little point, the open door under larger point, both correctly off-center in the same direction as in the image):
with the sundial matching matching the bird from the image right out front:
I also ran across this picture, so just for fun… look at the sorry patch of purple-looking daisies or something under the 20MPH sign on the right:
BTW, I am not suggesting that the site is directly at the base of that tree and picket fence, rather between the last unit of the HoJo and the wall (which is next to “a green picket fence [which is] at the base of a tall tree”). You would be perfectly hidden, and not on that homeowner’s property. You would be right across from the planetarium and the coquina wall and the birds. I have a really hard time thinking BP would dig in the Park, so close to main attractions. “Behind bending branches” is rather ambiguous to me too. I think it could easily mean on either side of the street. No matter which side you are on, you would be behind the bending branches (think about the st louis arch… no matter which side of the arches you are on, you are behind the arch). And I’ve actually tried for about a year to see the cannon. I almost can now, but still, not quite.

Unknown

Unknown:
A star sapphire is a type of sapphire that exhibits a star-like phenomenon known as asterism. Star sapphires contain intersecting needle-like inclusions that cause the appearance of a six-rayed “star”-shaped pattern when viewed with a single overhead light source.

Cannon research…
The Hadas of Iberia
“The first cannon in Europe were probably used in Iberia, during the Reconquista”
Over the long grass
“Cannon is derived from the Old Italian word cannone, meaning large tube, which came from Latin canna, in turn originating from the kanne – Greek for cane, or reed”
The back of a cannon is the “knob”, which also means “round hill”.
This is a star sapphire…
…shown on the vent of the cannon (“wind rose”). But there’s a blue glimmer behind the wheel which I interpret as the buried gem, just behind this thing.

I like to look at Ebay ever so often for vintage maps and such fo the hunt. Today I ran across this nugget from the 70s:
If you look closely you will see there was a tree planted on the corner of the plantarium.
Ill post better pics once I recieve it. There is also a very clear map on it of the park and surrounding areas, perhaps there will be a clue on it.

long shot, still the raven bothers me in the picture, from edgar allan poe:
`’Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door –
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door; –
This it is, and nothing more,’
one of the entrances?  if so, close to the parking lot (honking)
oh, i didn’t know the sundial had a bird on it: (wind rose)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohemianism/4275781317/
but mostly i like the indian and ponce, they are big enough to hide behind, and the indian has bow and arrows for bending branches, and his belt looks like the pebbles in the image.  for that matter the whole shape of the park looks like an indian to me (in the image):
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image … e621212d07
or the planetarium, has the weathervane for “wind”……the go toward magnolia, outside the park
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM2Y … _Augustine
look, famous portrait of sir francis drake with teardrop pearl jewel…………
http://www.sapphireandsage.com/necklacesmedallion.html
http://www.karipearls.com/sir-francis-drake-jewel.html

Here’s a fair-folk reference for you.
“Perhaps the metal-clashing landfall of the Conquistadores took them by surprise, and they fled without taking time to dis
enchant
their Fountain of Youth.”
Enchant…Entrance…?

Has anything been suggested for Ponce de Leon’s check jacket…? Wondering about this wall near the cannon at the bottom of Magnolia Ave.
(Don’t know whether it’s been pointed out that he also resembles the character on the front of “The Lost Colony” by Paul Green, as performed at Roanoke’s Waterside Theatre.)

i think trohn brought that up before about him being dressed like sir walter raleighs brother, and some one else mentioned the helmet wasn’t like the conquistadors but more italian……..seems like all the images could relate to any of the others somehow (i’m still confusing myself because of it, just today was thinking about the music notes in the dutch image could go with our verse ten, rhapsodic, bliss, harmony, ecstasy, because i like the dutch for new york
)
but i don’t recall anyone mentioning his checkered clothes……….i like those checks at the gate!
the only spanish fair folk i think is the mira chimera on p. 128…….last lines says “but her dedicated followers sometimes glimpse her still,
reflected
, if only for a moment, in the smoked
windows of a passing limo..
.”
and the picture on p. 128 says…..”
how do i look from the back
?”
here’s one of those anomalies(?)…”she was said to be
lost
forever with the passing of long
white gloves
“….”Lost” could go with the lost colony and “long white gloves”, english?  or wedding? and then mentions “when bernice bobbed her hair ( a story about a young girl from wisconsin!–on how to be more attractive (which does fit fountain of youth), i guess the white gloves could go with the limo service?
but bernice also has a mythological basis on the
constellation Coma Berenices
which would lead to the
planetarium
! so there we go  :), from behind the wall at the
planetarium
she was mourned when the movies learned to talk—————–movie
stars!
reflected-
———“staring back at you”

Sharing my 70’s pamphlet from the FOY

Slappy you bring up a very good point, and I’m also glad, WB you aren’t offended by my comments.
Here’s the thing: I appreciate all the associations, but what I was trying to say in more words than were probably necessary was that the actual solutions were much SIMPLER and more straightforward. I don’t think a lot of oblique references went into these. Only some very cleverly disguised locations and riddles that proved to be harder than originally thought for one main reason:  too much time has passed and too much has changed.  For instance, I truly believe that the casque in Boston was hidden in Copley Square, but most of that has been re-designed, cemented over and altered to make a find there feasible. And we all know what happened in Houston to the zoo. And if he really buried that casque in the sand in Charleston on White point, then it’s probably long gone just from erosion and the tides. But keep at it…no reason not to use it as a good mental exercise. And surfing all over the web certainly has its advantages later–you learn a lot, and it’s useful in other ways.  PS: See my notes again in the Verse 6 thread.

okay, i’ll do it for you, whiterabbit, lol
yeah, i had read where keats got it, but taking it to the play would have missed my point about “for ever young” and the springhouse  😛
and also because the reference then leads to shakespeare and the bible and on and on………..
but i will say: fletcher= arrows, and beaumont=bow-man ————–minus the t
which i like since the whole image looks like an indian to me
and with the seloy clue…….
but then the whole meaning of “written in water” is time is “fleet” ing, everything passes, nothing is permanent…..

Pretty sure “written in water” is just a reference to the FOY. The full phrase is “The first chapter / Written in water.” The sign on the gatepost leading into the FOY park reads “Enter / The first chapter / Our U.S. history / The discovery,” and the whole place is pretty much about water (i.e., the FOY).

thanks forest
you think it’s somewhere near the planetarium forest?
does anyone remember where the picture of ponce de leon smoking the clay pipes are?  is it in the First Encounters building?
i’ve looked thru 14 pages of pics on flickr and can’t find it..
does anyone remember?
just wondered why BP said “smoked windows of a passing limo”…………..i know, probably not important, it’s just bugging me
or smoked duck or maybe that copper caldron for cooking the duck
but probably just saying near the road so you could see the passing cars
but our tinajones urns are fire baked! same as smoked, rain falls, years pass (rainwater and 800 years), and keats :
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/28 … 0493ZSVEDk
what do you guys think?

I couldn’t find a thread for verse 9, so I am posting it here.
The first chapter
Written in water
Near men
With wind rose
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
You can still hear the honking
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.

I was just looking around at this verse and something struck me.
Some think Salt Lake City is image 11, but no verse has been matched.
Check out this connection to verse 9:
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Silver Island Mountains Utah
Salt Lake City, Utah
Bonneville Salt Flats, Utah, which are covered with limestone and shells.
Here’s a good link:  http://www.utahpictures.com/Silver_Island_Mountains.html
OK, it’s a stretch and probably won’t help.
wilhouse

that actually doesnt seem like much of a stretch at all right now.  Maybe it is time to do a little more digging around SLC and this V.  Nice find

Hey everyone:) Long time no talk to~ I’ve been trying to finish up this whole college thing, and after 4 more weeks of pretty intense work I’ll be free!
Just wanted to touch base and say I’m really impressed with the progress and I’m glad this one is getting some work. I havn’t been able to make a return trip to St. Augustine in a little over a year now but I gotta say I think you have me convinced it’s the FOY park afterall. I think I was trying to place it at the other park because of state park dig issues and such. I think next time I go I’ll take a little trip out to the small island just for kicks and giggles, but I think everything fits much better at FOY.
I hope to be in contact much more over the next month or two, just sending my regards^^
-Guyra

“With wind rose” seems to fit the Cattle Point Lighthouse which has been primarily a radio compass beacon which allows ships to pinpoint position in the most dense fog.

There were so many confirmers for Florida’s Fountain of Youth park that it was almost a shoo-in. The problem wasn’t that it couldn’t be pinpointed to that location, it was that no one could dig there because the owners were not enthusiastic about someone coming in and digging in their park.  I, for one, would be very hard-pressed to believe in any alternative location for this image and verse.

Over the tall grass
Myrtle Ave…
Myrtle grass
…?
Also known as Sweet Flag.

Thanks Stercox! That is an impressive excavation.
And thank you burnstyle for reaching out to her.

Kulaid813, I’m pretty sure that the owner is not granting permission for people to search. He is aware of the hunt, but I don’t think that too many people have been successful gaining permission to dig. Also there is an ongoing archaeological dig going on at that site. That being said, it’s not against any ruled or policies to look 🙂

I would say about 95% of this verse and the corresponding image is deciphered
yet with that much of a solution, no casque has been found.
making this fair game for alternative solutions.
I kind of feel the same way about Image1/v7 and SF.
I can’t complain if someone has an alternate solution, If I haven’t been able to dig up a casque with mine, regardless of how sure I am.

This entire V has pretty much been accounted for.
1st chapter –
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_xZR_AkAAtg/U … 52C+FL.JPG
the wind rose, the green fence, shell & limestone & silver & salt, etc etc etc…
don’t forget SELOY
I just can’t figure out why this V keeps getting redone.

If you haven’t noticed, I think I’ve done a good job steering clear of wacky whimsical complicated things lately.
I’m 95 percent hopeful malted will find the SF casque using V7P1.  Having put forth the effort to be on the level with the grounds keepers removes a huge obstacle to the process.
Clearly FOY is one of those challenges.  I expect San Juan Island to be one of those that won’t require permission.  The archaelogical work has already been thoroughly done in the 70’s by a team from Idaho prior to this hunt and in the important areas.  A park ranger would probably put a stop to your digging and it wouldn’t seem like a big deal given that it’s a sprawling prairie and lots of trees are being planted to revitalize the landscape.

I just cant buy into the Fountain of Youth Park,
The whole park is Private Property and it was in 1982
and it is behind a large wall that has a gate that closes when the park is closed for business…
I just cant picture him digging in there at all.
especially when there is one verse that says “get Permission to dig out” and its not this one.
And less than 100 yards away is a public park

Hey, I get that FOY is warm and fuzzy, but I am not disdainfully opposed while toying with an alternative.  I was just noticing there is a George Washington like alignment with image 12 to go with this.  The underside of the woman’s arms and the midsection of the white robe matches the dollar bill image of shoulder to mouth to shoulder.  It’s not perfect but just enough that it really catches on.

D’oh, sorry Forest, forgot. But although no-one is going to allow random unauthorised digging on their property, they’re not implacably opposed to this puzzle. Last time I contacted them the manager even said he’d be willing to try digging for it himself. I reckon the problem is just that no-one has pinpointed an exact spot yet.

From Stercox…
“Inside the planetarium the display is set up like the deck of a ship–so that you get the effect of being on a ship looking past the mast into the night sky during the program.”
See photos here…
http://family.webshots.com/photo/270752 … 0493cCXwXM
Hadn’t noticed the weather vane before, but yeah, ships aplenty in the planetarium…

if the planetarium is “stars move by day,” has this ship been mentioned as “sails pass by night”?
sorry if it has… i read through the last several pages of posts, and it seemed there was either no clue or it was a mural in the entrance.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/102050593@ … 601526884/
Hopefully, the above link will work.  This is my first attempt to post my photos.  I am using flickr.

those are great shots! thanks!

fox

Pig war? Wow, ok. Why not the Bay of Pigs? It is more well known…and it was in Cuba, off the coast of Florida. This is precisely how force fitting ideas works. We should focus on where the clues have taken us, not where we can take the clues.

I’m okay with Pig War because I like how it plays with the introductory lines of verse.  If it weren’t for Spain’s explorations, and later the Hudson Bay Company and early American settlers, San Juan Island may have ended up as part of the Russian claim.  The beginning of San Juan Island came with it’s settlements.  The fact was that San Juan Island was in flux and the Pig War stirred things up enough that it had to be settled whether the British would hold governance or the USA.  That is the story that begins the first chapter of San Juan Island.
I wouldn’t consider Cuba, because I’ve never heard that Preiss buried a casque in Cuba.  Also, I don’t think the Bay of Pigs is really considered part of the first chapter of Cuba’s history.

erexere

I wouldn’t consider Cuba, because I’ve never heard that Preiss buried a casque in Cuba.

Please supply the link where you heard BP buried a casque in Oregon. I must have missed it.

I understood that he buried one in Canada and the rest in the USA.  Sorry, I don’t know where the link is, or whether that excludes Hawaii and Alaska.  Cuba just seems way off.  At least Oregon is in the contiguous US.

I never said there was one in Cuba. I said Cuba is off the coast of Florida. Perhaps Oregon residents did not learn that Florida is part of the contiguous states.

Okay then.  Did you want to discuss you’re Bay of Pig’s idea further in how it relates to St. Augustine?  I’m open to that, but I’d probably fit it into the red herring category.

No I do not want to discuss my Bay of Pigs theory. I do not have that theory. It was simply another example of a force fit. What I do consider discussing however, is the rock solid FoY theory. That’s what needs to be focused on. Not pig wars, pig bays, pickled pigs feet, not pork rinds.

“The time has come,” the Walrus said,
“To talk of many things:
Of shoes – and ships – and sealing wax –
Of cabbages – and kings –
And why the sea is boiling hot –
And whether pigs have wings.”
— Lewis Carroll, “The Walrus and the Carpenter”

Honestly, I came to the thoughts about “near men” = pigs and “wind rose” = conflict escalation, after a long process of st Yuri mbling over foolish ideas.  Navigating this as a puzzle precludes that a wind rose doesn’t have to be a simple navigational instrument.  I’m just looking at the word relationships.  I’m certain Preiss chooses an appropriate setting to apply the sea exploration words but he chooses them with care.  That’s why its not a total loss to consider alternatives to the simplistic side of things.  I’m thinking we will have success only if we use our heads and separate out the stock typical business.  Use our dictionaries.

erexere

Honestly, I came to the thoughts about “near men” = pigs and “wind rose” = conflict escalation.

FYI, Eric, this is what others are referring to when they argue that you’re trying to force the clues to fit your solution. You seem like you want the San Juan Islands and/or Corbett to be a solution so badly that you could probably stretch any verse to fit.

I’m aware.  I have thought in a practical sense, “for a place where its historicaly well known for an event called the Pig War, does anything in the verse fit?”  I don’t think its a force fit at all.  I defined a structured process, opened a dictionary, and posted a conclusion that fits the process.  My concern for it having to fit San Juan Island is not in any way part of my science.  You can choose to focus on your opinion or you can refer to my methodology, ope n a dictionary, and see where it leads you.
Pig War as derivable from an intelligent reading of two lines of verse is a huge confirmer for San Juan Island.

This is where you seem to have a hard time understanding why there’s so much
when you present your theories.
“Near men” could literally mean thousands of different things. Monkeys. Dogs. Women. Statues. You choose pigs, because it leads you to San Juan. Same for “wind rose”. You choose “conflict escalation” because it leads you to San Juan.
Your methodology is that you choose a solution first
and then open the dictionary to find how it can get you there.

I posed San Juan Island as an option.  What all fits is purely part of a process.  I understand the fallacy involved.  Now, do you understand critical thinking, trial and error, and blind assumption?

erexere

I posed San Juan Island as an option.  What all fits is purely part of a process.  I understand the fallacy involved.  Now, do you understand critical thinking, trial and error, and blind assumption?

For years,
you’ve advocated San Juan Island as an option that makes more sense than the Fountain of Youth park
, in spite of a mountain of concrete confirmers for FoY. There’s no methodology to what you’re doing. You want there to be a casque in the Pacific Northwest. You’ll Google and triangulate until you find something that makes it so.
I think you ought to consult your dictionary on whether “critical” is a synonym for “wishful”.

So you don’t think its possible that Preiss wouldve used the line “the first chapter” in a clever way?  Whether I’m wishful or not, I see the words at the entrance to FOY as a very straightforward clue, but I’m unable to ignore that the Daughters of the American Revolution organized their first chapter in the state of Washington.  There’s no “maybe” or “force fit” there.  That represents two possible points which may be critically evaluated in tandem.  Ultimately they are competing theories so we might have to submit to one being more valid but there’s wiggle room for both to be valid if we were to prove FOY was designed as the red herring.
Don’t you that nk that’s a reasonable question and approach given how little we actually know to be confirmed in this hunt?

erexere

So you don’t think its possible that Preiss would’ve used the line “the first chapter” in a clever way?  Whether I’m wishful or not, I see the words at the entrance to FOY as a very straightforward clue, but I’m unable to ignore that the Daughters of the American Revolution organized their first chapter in the state of Washington.  There’s no “maybe” or “force fit” there.  That represents two possible points which may be critically evaluated in tandem.

I actually completely agree with this, E. However, when critically evaluating these two interpretations in tandem, we have to see them in context. If we evaluated each line on its own, there would be endless possibilities. The fact that “The First Chapter” is a signage clue, like many of the other clues in the verse seem to be, makes FOY a much more reasonable solution than the other that relies on many different genre and interpretation methods of the lines in the verse.

Glossiphoniidae

If we evaluated each line on its own, there would be endless possibilities. The fact that “The First Chapter” is a signage clue, like many of the other clues in the verse seem to be, makes FOY a much more reasonable solution than the other that relies on many different genre and interpretation methods of the lines in the verse.

I agree. If we do not evaluate the first line on its own but rather combine it with the second, it becomes a two-fold clue to FOY:
The first chapter
(on the FOY gate sign)
Written in water
(oblique reference to the FOY itself)

erexere

Wind rose is two words.  Wind means one thing, rose means one thing.
The disagreement between two people can be called a wind.
Something that rises or escalates = rose. (past tense of
rise
)
Wind rose = escalation of conflict = war.

Yes, I suppose it could. But why can’t it just mean
It all fits with PDL sailing across the ocean and landing (sure, it is questioned by historians…but it what we have been taught) at St Augistine Fl.
Why don’t we just find a toy rose bush that can be wound up? Wind+Rose.

Pig war? Wow, ok. Why not the Bay of Pigs? It is more well known…and it was in Cuba, off the coast of Florida. This is precisely how force fitting ideas works. We should focus on where the clues have taken us, not where we can take the clues.

Bending branches would seem to indicate a fruit bearing tree.