Unknown

Unknown:
The measure of this would be in how many proposed solutions came into Byron Preiss Visual Publications

According to the 8/9/83 Chicago Tribune article, “some 700 people wrote to Preiss at his New York office claiming to have located the treasure. None had.”. Two things used to surprise me about this little tidbit. The first is that in the 35 years since the article came out, not one of the 700 (or the countless others who also contacted him, Chicago group excepted) have ever stepped forward on this, or any other forum. The second is that none of the 700 had a solution close enough to get Preiss’ attention, and that’s probably also true for the countless others who contacted him after the Chicago puzzle was solved and the article came out. Let me repeat that. In the first year, when the clues were fresh and the Treasure Grounds were intact, not one of the likely 1,000+ people who contacted Preiss got as close as the Chicago group did. Zero.
I am still surprised by the first thing. I am no longer surprised by the second. At all.

Kalessin

I don’t think this is true; I already gave my own anecdote (which doesn’t prove anything, of course), but Byron Preiss was not unknown. The Secret was not an enormous success like Masquerade was, but there is indication that people were working on the puzzles when the book came out. Just because interest in The Secret went almost completely dormant after about 1988 doesn’t mean that nobody cared and nobody heard of it.

I will give my ” own anecdote (which doesn’t prove anything, of course), I’m glad to know there is indication that people were working on the puzzle when the book came out. but interest did not go “completely dormant after about 1988”. We did try really hard. As a matter of fact, we used thing called a BBS to communicate with each other. There was the well which started in 1985ish, it had several treasure hunting threads. of which The Secret was one. In addtion there were at least 3 other BBS’s I used to message with other hunters, They died out almost immediately in 94/95 when geocities came out. It was only when Geocities came out that I actually got to read the news article about the Chicago find. up to that point it was all hearsay with lots of conflicting information. I know Q4t started prior to 2003 but I think it was then that everybody bailed on Geocities and moved over to q4t, I seem to remember one other place before q4t but I cant remember it (it actually might have been q4t and then it got erased and we had to restart, or whatever that was that was why we moved to q4t. That being said it was late late 2003, that I remember BP actually being talked about as a person, beside just being a name in the back of the book and the “publisher” I think it was Fox who actually started that communications with him and that was the point he became a person instead of a name in the back of the book. I’ve never said BP was unknown, I said he was just an un-important footnote having nothing to do with the clues, at least in the minds of those of us working on it at that time. (we have since learned better.)

Euhirudinea

According to the 8/9/83 Chicago Tribune article, “some 700 people wrote to Preiss at his New York office claiming to have located the treasure. None had.”. Two things used to surprise me about this little tidbit. The first is that in the 35 years since the article came out, not one of the 700 (or the countless others who also contacted him, Chicago group excepted) have ever stepped forward on this, or any other forum. The second is that none of the 700 had a solution close enough to get Preiss’ attention, and that’s probably also true for the countless others who contacted him after the Chicago puzzle was solved and the article came out. Let me repeat that. In the first year, when the clues were fresh and the Treasure Grounds were intact, not one of the likely 1,000+ people who contacted Preiss got as close as the Chicago group did. Zero.
I am still surprised by the first thing. I am no longer surprised by the second. At all.

even if all the numbers were correct, the people were writing to Byron Preiss Visual Publications as a company, not Byron Preiss as a person.

Unknown

Unknown:
even if all the numbers were correct

Unknown

Unknown:
the people were writing to Byron Preiss Visual Publications as a company, not Byron Preiss as a person.

Seven hundred comes straight from the article, so I’m assuming that is what BP told the author when he was interviewed. This was August, when the book had been out for less than a year. I bumped the number up to 1,000 and if anything, I’ll bet my estimate of the number of solutions he received over time is low. Way low.
So what? I’m not making the argument that BP the person was relevant. The idea that determining the location of the NY casque depends on knowing where BP went to High School, or anything else about him for that matter, is ludicrous.

Euhirudinea

So what? I’m not making the argument that BP the person was relevant. The idea that determining the location of the NY casque depends on knowing where BP went to High School, or anything else about him for that matter, is ludicrous.

Damn, once again in 100% agreement.

Unknown

Unknown:
Damn, once again in 100% agreement.

Good. I’ll trade on that goodwill to ask you a simple, direct question Matt. Do you think there is a way to KNOW (that is, with complete certainty) which park in NY contains (contained) the casque, without actually digging it up? A simple yes or no will suffice.

JoshCornell

and therein lies your answer…google the mascot for fort ham high

BP went to Westwood High School, not Fort Hamilton. It has been confirmed. The FH theory doesn’t make sense if he didn’t go there.

Use to be we talked about the puzzle directly, although it is fun to see where rabbit holes connect…as they always seem to do.

Westwood….as in, *Midwood*……?

JoshCornell

yes it does. his going their is not a requirement or pre requisite for the treasure to be there.

I’d agree with Josh; the casque might or might not be there, but the Fort Hamilton theory was around long before someone found the name Byron Preiss on their list of
alumni
.

So if BP didn’t attend school at Fort Hamilton High School (and even if he did), what
confirms
that it’s used as part of the puzzle, as opposed to, say, anything else named Hamilton in New York City: Hamilton Heights, Hamilton House, Hamilton US Customs House, etc etc?

Mister EZ

Westwood….as in, *Midwood*……?

Yes, I got distracted by a movie when I posted. Too many distractions.

Steph53282

Yes, I got distracted by a movie when I posted. Too many distractions.

=]

Kalessin

So if BP didn’t attend school at Fort Hamilton High School (and even if he did), what
confirms
that it’s used as part of the puzzle, as opposed to, say, anything else named Hamilton in New York City: Hamilton Heights, Hamilton House, Hamilton US Customs House, etc etc?

absolutely nothing.

Kalessin

So if BP didn’t attend school at Fort Hamilton High School (and even if he did), what
confirms
that it’s used as part of the puzzle, as opposed to, say, anything else named Hamilton in New York City: Hamilton Heights, Hamilton House, Hamilton US Customs House, etc etc?

Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
It possibly removes reinforcement that Preiss is talking about himself and the area around FHHS, in those lines. (Unless some other connection is found.)

Mister EZ

Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
It possibly removes reinforcement that Preiss is talking about himself and the area around FHHS, in those lines. (Unless some other connection is found.)

That was really never likely as BP never injected himself in either cleveland or Chicago and also no where else was it even suggested, he did
To think he did that in NY was always a stretch.
Seriously until the internet there was really no possible way to even know BP was involved in the book at all
it was all Ted Mann and Sean Kelly- most people had not heard of BP until the 90s.

the clues tell you what to do when you know how to solve them.

maltedfalcon

That was really never likely as BP never injected himself in either cleveland or Chicago and also no where else was it even suggested, he did
To think he did that in NY was always a stretch.
Seriously until the internet there was really no possible way to even know BP was involved in the book at all
it was all Ted Mann and Sean Kelly- most people had not heard of BP until the 90s.

Agreed.

maltedfalcon

Seriously until the internet there was really no possible way to even know BP was involved in the book at all
it was all Ted Mann and Sean Kelly- most people had not heard of BP until the 90s.

There are no credits on the front cover of The Secret, but he’s in the credits inside as Editor and Developer, and on the right-hand title page inside the front cover it says: “A Byron Preiss Book (Bantam rooster logo) Bantam Books.”
His is the first name mentioned in the promo letter from the publisher to bookstores (in the thread here on q4t) as the one who conceived the book. As a multi-artist work with an editor, the book would have been shelved under Byron Preiss, Editor.
While not as famous in the Science Fiction/Fantasy editing/publishing world of the early 80’s asLester Del Rey or Jim Baen, Preiss was known to fantasy readers for co-authoring “Dragonworld” in 1979. I got a copy of Dragonworld for a birthday or holiday around 1979 or 1980 (when I was the right age for it), but my copy is lost in the depths of time and space. I never bought or received a copy of The Secret when it came out.

Kalessin

I never bought or received a copy of The Secret when it came out.

I did and until the 90s when the articles about chicago finally made it out to everybody working on the puzzles, nobody had any clue who BP was. Byron Priess Publishing was equated to Random House or Balantine or Bantam… just a company name- not a real person.

maltedfalcon

I did and until the 90s when the articles about chicago finally made it out to everybody working on the puzzles, nobody had any clue who BP was. Byron Priess Publishing was equated to Random House or Balantine or Bantam… just a company name- not a real person.

Not picking on you but… p224.

Steph53282

BP went to Westwood High School, not Fort Hamilton. It has been confirmed. The FH theory doesn’t make sense if he didn’t go there.

yes it does. his going their is not a requirement or pre requisite for the treasure to be there. not sure where you got that idea from…oh yea…you ASSumed it.

jimerson

Not picking on you but… p224.

Again, I realize what the book said, who wrote the puzzles, and exactly who BP was. I am saying that prior to 1992, (with the exception of the guys who found Chicago)
no one cared, no one thought about him or how in any way he could be involved with the puzzle

maltedfalcon

Again, I realize what the book said, who wrote the puzzles, and exactly who BP was. I am saying that prior to 1992, (with the exception of the guys who found Chicago)
no one cared, no one thought about him or how in any way he could be involved with the puzzle

I don’t think this is true; I already gave my own anecdote (which doesn’t prove anything, of course), but Byron Preiss was not unknown. The Secret was not an enormous success like Masquerade was, but there is indication that people were working on the puzzles when the book came out. Just because interest in The Secret went almost completely dormant after about 1988 doesn’t mean that nobody cared and nobody heard of it.
The measure of this would be in how many proposed solutions came into Byron Preiss Visual Publications, how many calls came in, how many copies of the book sold, how many mentions in media, how often he would have been invited onto panels at science fiction conventions, etc. We generally don’t have access to this data.
Preiss was almost certainly a member of SFWA, the Science Fiction Writers Association (which includes fantasy authors), and conventions were very important in the pre-internet era for marketing books, networking in the business of SF/F publishing, authors pitching to publishers (especially small-press houses like Byron Preiss Visual Publications), meeting the fans, etc.

Another bloviated goose chase.

?
are you kidding me?
you are saying the poster album art didnt influence the nyc painting? cmon.

JoshCornell

?
are you kidding me?
you are saying the poster album art didnt influence the nyc painting? cmon.

I dont think it did

Unknown

Unknown:
I dont think it did

Hey, another thing Matt and I agree on. The poster clearly influenced Image 2 (Charleston), but any similarities between it and Image 12 (NY) are most likely coincidental.

Explain please.

JoshCornell

?
are you kidding me?
you are saying the poster album art didnt influence the nyc painting? cmon.

Yes, explain. I see the lion in the image. Do you? And I’m not talking about her belt, little boy.

Unknown

Unknown:
so short answer to your direct question is no

Thank you.

Kalessin

Preiss was almost certainly a member of SFWA, the Science Fiction Writers Association (which includes fantasy authors), and conventions were very important in the pre-internet era for marketing books, networking in the business of SF/F publishing, authors pitching to publishers (especially small-press houses like Byron Preiss Visual Publications), meeting the fans, etc.

i actually came to this very same conclusion…theres really no need to take mf’s word as gold…

you realize by making such a statement you are saying the puzzles are unsolvable…far from the truth.

cause you have to figure out the park without digging it up…to dig it up…

Unknown

Unknown:
cause you have to figure out the park without digging it up…to dig it up…

Dayum. Someone is on his game today.

Euhirudinea

Good. I’ll trade on that goodwill to ask you a simple, direct question Matt. Do you think there is a way to KNOW (that is, with complete certainty) which park in NY contains (contained) the casque, without actually digging it up? A simple yes or no will suffice.

If there is, I certainly have no idea what it is.
so short answer to your direct question is no
that being said I dont think the NY casque is located in a park
and contrary to most popilar theories
I firmly believe it is on the island of manhattan
but not in battery park
and lastly I believe it is intact and whole.
However i am very very inexpert on this casque
so take anything i say as specious wild ideas

there are clues for the ny puzzle introduced in (probably) all the other puzzles…could you find them?

JoshCornell

there are clues for the ny puzzle introduced in (probably) all the other puzzles…could you find them?

I would say you are correct.

what kind of cat would you say that is?

JoshCornell

what kind of cat would you say that is?

I would say that’s the lion of the 1969 Santana album. although the album cover was basically based on the filmore west poster, the artist was lee conklin or something like that. It’s definitely supposed to be a lion but I always thought the poster looked like a tiger.

http://rockandrollreport.com/wp-content … -800pi.gif

maltedfalcon

I would say that’s the lion of the 1969 Santana album. although the album cover was basically based on the filmore west poster, the artist was lee conklin or something like that. It’s definitely supposed to be a lion but I always thought the poster looked like a tiger.

and therein lies your answer…google the mascot for fort ham high

Still its a lion, not a tiger regardless of what I though BP would have known it as a lion.

he woulda known it looked like a tiger too lol…and the one in nyc painting is def a tiger. so regardless.

JoshCornell

he woulda known it looked like a tiger too lol…and the one in nyc painting is def a tiger. so regardless.

I doubt that most people would know it from the album first. and there it is definitely a lion.
I saw the poster first so I thought tiger til I was corrected by the album…

i can assure you, preiss was reffing the poster in the most primary sense. it takes you to a person…can you figure out who?

JoshCornell

there are clues for the ny puzzle introduced in (probably) all the other puzzles…could you find them?

I could, and?

so do it.

you want it listed or you want me to crop out the visuals?

you do you man, dealers choice…
the most obvious one is in mtl.