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29. The Secret Guide to the Fair Guide

by | Jul 3, 2020 | 0 comments

Season 03 Episode 04

The Secret Guide to the Fair Guide

The back of the book is the Secret’s apocalyptic document. Love it or hate it, it’s there. The question is… should we use it to help us?
Join George, Bradley, Seeds, Karleen, and Carly as we discuss the Fair Guide.

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George Ward
Welcome, everybody to another episode of The Secret podcast. You know, people have said, time and time again that the podcast tends to focus more on the simple side of the puzzle, right? We don’t tend to go out to the edges. Some members of the community have sort of far reaching theories that the members of the podcast team don’t necessarily agree with. And we wanted to give those members of the community their fair shake. So today, we’re going to tackle probably the toughest topic in the secret to tackle, which is the back of the book. Does the back of the book contain any clues? Is the back of the book help you doesn’t matter at all? We’re going to try to answer that today. There’s been a couple of searchers, who over the years have really pushed the back of the book ones named Carly ones named Carlene, they’re there, their names are sort of similar. They have sort of similar ideas. It’s weird. This is a puzzle people. So we figured we’d give them an opportunity to explain themselves. I know, when you when you come across these ideas about the back of the book, on random, you know, forum posts or posts on Facebook or posts on Reddit, it’s sort of hard to wrap your mind around it, right? Because, you know, it’s little pieces of information that’s, you know, cut and pasted here and there. And until you get the full idea, it’s hard to understand what they’re talking about. So we figured an entire episode dedicated to that would be a good idea. In addition to Carly and Carlene Bradley and I are also happy to welcome a guest named seeds. Seeds is got a weird name, you know, he’s a California weird surfer dude, you’ll be able to tell who seeds is. Seeds, doesn’t have much of an opinion about this seeds. It’s sort of 5050. Right seeds sort of thinks that there’s stuff in the back of the book, but maybe there’s not and who knows. So seeds is here as our control. Right? He doesn’t have an opinion. Either way. It’s just a cool guy who loves the secret and wants to sort of hang out and have a discussion with us. So let’s get into it. Carly, you go first, because you tell us a little bit about you know how you got into this sort of why you got into this where you’re hunting from that sort of thing.

Carley Perales
Thanks for having me on guys. I’ve been I’ve been involved with the secret for about coming up on a year in September. So pretty new to it. So just been into treasure hunt since about 2018. And the secret caught my so I’ve been been working on that for about last year.

Bradley Hodges
Nice. And currently, where are you hunting from?

Carley Perales
I’m in the San Francisco Bay area. So that’s primarily the cask I’m after. Very, very

Bradley Hodges
cool. We have seeds. Seeds was actually at our our meetup in San Francisco. The time it was a phenomenal time everybody thought that you had a hairline and you down

Seeds
Don’t be fooled by red herrings.

George Ward
I’ll say man, during that meetup everybody was walking through their ideas and stuff seeds was the most fun, like I agreed with see until he got to the end. When he got to the end. I was just like, whoa, that’s kind of weird. But until he got to the end, he had the best ideas that I had heard and then later on completely abandon them. And like he doesn’t even he’s like, No, that’s totally wrong. Which sucks.

Seeds
There’s a little few. There’s still a few places I like to adventure out there. Well, what’s up everybody? I’m CDEs looking at San Francisco, around the area. Appreciate all of you and conversations we have. Thanks, everybody for having me. Appreciate it.

Bradley Hodges
Thanks for coming on. And our lovable art. Carmen, do you teach art? Is that what you teach?

Karleen
I teach art. Yep.

Bradley Hodges
Yes, our lovely art teacher Carlene she’s always had phenomenal ideas. I love her videos on the New York puzzle. Carlene talk about yourself a little bit.

Karleen
Okay, well, I’m Carlene and everybody that knows me knows I’m really into New York specifically Prospect Park. I am first generation expedition unknown. super supportive family lets me travel to Brooklyn all the time. I’ve been in Manhattan a little bit too. My favorite thing about the puzzle is the friends that I’ve met and shout out to all of them and I’m so glad to be here.

Bradley Hodges
Well, we are glad to have you on George. You haven’t said anything yet.

George Ward
No, no, I’m saving. I’m saving. This is gonna be fun. I’m saving it. I’m here. You’re not gonna be great. That mean that like the back of the book, The Secret back of the book is almost like revelations for the secret, right? People either love it or they hate it. And, you know, I’m, I’m not a doom and gloom guy. So this is gonna be a fun conversation.

Bradley Hodges
I enjoy the back of the book.

I think it’s entertaining, do you? But yeah, there’s some really funny things in there. Okay. I mean, I enjoy I enjoy that type of fiction writing. There’s some things that made me chuckle.

George Ward
I mean, you either you either like it’s totally written by two people who wrote for hoof or heavy metal, right? Or whoever National Lampoon for heavy metal, it’s written in that style, and you either love it or you hate

Bradley Hodges
it. I mean, let’s be honest, I don’t know. And then a lot of people read heavy metal for the articles for say, kind of like, you don’t get a illustration, or you don’t get like, a subscription to Playboy for their articles. You know, I’m saying, yeah, the jokes are phenomenal. But the art was always phenomenal. In those, I have a few copies left actually of heavy metal, and I just have them up for the art there. It’s, it’s phenomenal. But let’s talk about the back of the book.

George Ward
I don’t know, Bradley, do you think it’s phenomenal enough to talk about? Let me let me preface this one. So, Carly, for the longest time, you’ve been a really big advocate that there’s been hints and clues in the back of the book, things that sort of don’t necessarily lead you to the cast, but help you along the way. keywords and phrases that sort of link you to cities or to locations or you know, just areas whatever, just little hints when you started this puzzle, what what made you think there was something in the back of the book? And what did you find that sort of solidified that the back of the book was important.

Carley Perales
When I first got the book, or actually started looking at it online. I thought because everybody said there was nothing back there that it was just, you know, kind of satirical stuff. And I really wasn’t thinking much of it. And just as I began to read more and more, things started to just jump out at me that seemed to be more than just coincidence. And I could see if it was maybe one or two things be like, Ah, you just kind of dismiss that. But when you start to see patterns, and things repeating, you know, having been in other treasure hunts, it just things started to appear to be more than they were. And so that’s when I started to really look at it a lot closer.

George Ward
Okay, so what what sort of patterns were you seeing?

Carley Perales
I think some of the first things I was noticing is how certain topics were coming up from different fairies. You know, I posted about this before, like the word Naugahyde came up in multiple different fairies. And Naugahyde isn’t really a very common word, I wouldn’t even think back in the 80s, it would be you know, and just you start researching a topic like that, and it takes you down a little bit of a rabbit hole or whatever. And so you’re trying to make some connections between what you’re finding out about that subject and what you’re researching in that fairy and what it could possibly tie into the image or the verse or whatever. But, you know, there’s just a lot of little things like that. And as you start to continue from fairy to fairy, you realize that some, some are connected in ways through the immigration or the cities. It could just be a word here there. And, you know, I know a lot of it is really subjective. And so there’s a danger in that that confirmation bias it could be there, but I think that’s the fun of it is trying to parse that those kinds of things out.

Bradley Hodges
So as far as like Naugahyde not being common word. I would respectfully disagree with you. I mean, like comedians, yeah. And I mean, there’s always you know, the joke about Nagas being an animal is like, oh, that poor Naga died so I could have Naugahyde especially what was that? I want to say 70s was when Naugahyde was like super popular for furniture. Yeah,

George Ward
no, God was huge. So just so for people who don’t know what Naugahyde is, Naugahyde is not actual leather, it’s vinyl. It’s just it’s vinyl that’s made to look like leather. And it’s sort of it was sort of an industry term that that to make vinyl sound more appealing, sort of like how people throw around like Corinthian leather for a while and car interiors. People would talk about Naugahyde in the 70s and 80s. It’s just, I mean, it’s a better way of saying vinyl seats. You know, nobody wants vinyl seats, but Naugahyde sounds badass.

Bradley Hodges
Fun fact to know love from Wikipedia, the creator of Naugahyde was named Byron. Cool.

Carley Perales
I think the thing for me on that particular word that once I once I found that it was actually part of their marketing campaign that the Naugahyde was this little fairy creature. That’s one of my interests really kind of kind of took a leap forward on that one just because, like, why why would he pick this word? Well, maybe it’s because they had a fairy creature, and that would tie it into, you know, his, his theme of the book. So that’s kind of why I went with that one to start. Okay.

George Ward
I just it’s a trap. It’s a trap that we’re gonna fall into, in the back of the book, right? There’s a lot of stuff from the 80s that because this book was written as, like a commentary on not just pop culture, but culture and politics and life in the 80s, we’re so far away from that now, that things that would have been normal, then aren’t normal anymore. So they sort of stick out to us now, when in the 80s, they they wouldn’t so much. So it’s a trap that we have to, you know, be cautious of not falling into.

Karleen
I agree. And I disagree with that. Because there are some things that, you know, like when they talk about Star Wars and lightsabers, but what is a lightsaber? You know, if you if you take a lightsaber, and you put it straight up and down, it could be a tower that lights up. I mean, we don’t know. But I agree with with Carly on a lot of the things being repeated. I agree that there’s tons and tons of images in here that have different angles and different shapes and different patterns. And and why why would you do it? You know, just like people that say, it doesn’t matter. Well, why would you waste all that money and time publishing something that didn’t matter? It doesn’t make sense. I just, it’s just, there’s just too much. And while I think a lot of it is red herrings, and some of it is probably made to be entertaining, I think, in between all of that bits and pieces are there to help you determine between two cities. So say, for example, Dallas and Houston. Because when you and I were together in Canton, we talked about that. And Houston Children’s Zoo is all over those images.

George Ward
Yeah, but the images are completely different from the words, the images weren’t made. Okay, so it’s important to keep in mind that that Byron’s main job wasn’t an editor. It wasn’t a writer. It was a book packager, Byron, if you look at most of Byron’s work, it’s collections of other works, right. And Byron’s job was to take short stories or whatever, from different people package them in a book, sell the book. And that’s how the secret came to be. It was packaged, it’s important to remember that the back of the book was written not by Byron, you know, it was written by Sean, would

Karleen
you have thought about that? In 1982? Would you have said, as you know, a 20 year old in 1982. Oh, I’m not going to look at that. Because Byron’s just a packager, you don’t know that in 1982.

George Ward
And 1983, I would have read the book, and I would have said, I would have seen that it says, A painting and reverse leads you to a key like, that’s, that’s what the book says.

Karleen
Well, why can’t it be a supplement that helps you?

George Ward
I mean, I guess it could be a supplement to help you. But let me turn that around and ask you the same question. Why does it have to be like, it doesn’t have to be a supplement to help you. If Byron says it’s not a supplement to help you, then it’s not. And you brought up a lot of things, in that in that comment that we can’t just gloss over like, art is art. Art, is composed of lines, art is composed of angles, art is composed of patterns. It doesn’t follow that just because this is a treasure hunt book, that every single piece of art has to contain detailed clues. Sometimes an arms and arm it’s not always a map. In fact, we haven’t really shown that any of them are maps at all, the most that we’ve shown is one piece of art has a 92 train in it, and a big H made out of an eye beam. And that one of the pieces of art has a shuttle. Like those are very broad clues that lead you to a city. It’s not like, you know, the arm of a dude has a map of pathways and in Hermann Park, like those are those are two completely different clues. One of them we’ve shown Yeah, it’s pretty likely the other not so much.

Carley Perales
I think that a couple of things, one, you know, said that price had worked on this project for like two and a half years. And he had brought the other project members in and they worked on it a year before they even know knew that the book was going to be a go, and then another year on top of that, so that that entire time, you know, we know from from man and Kelly that they had their book, and that he requested that they make more ferries. He wanted one for each state. So that tells you right there, they had less than 50. And they ended up with over 70 of them. So in that time, you know he had been given them feedback. I mean, I think you can reasonably assume that if jjp told us that he was given clues to include in the images and the paintings that he had no idea what they meant, but he had to put them in there. That price could have been doing the exact same thing with his writers, just giving them a piece of information, hey, just make sure you include this. They wouldn’t have known what it meant. But it would have been important to the hunt. So I think that that’s one of the reasons why I kind of believe that there are things in the text as well. There’s one of the things Georgia brought up The fact that it says in the book that you need one verse in one painting. And I don’t disagree with that at all, I think that’s the way you solve these things, is by using those clues from those two things. But I think kind of what the the idea of the back of the book is, and this is why I kind of look at it. The clues are in the verse and in the image. But the answer to those clues are hidden in the back. And I think that’s the story of the fair folk, when, when he was interviewed for some of those newspaper articles, they even talked about how he sounded like he was the one that was entrusted to share their secrets. And so I think he took it kind of very seriously. And we know that he was forced to lie about certain things. And I always kind of looked at it, like if somebody had made you promise to keep a secret for them. And somebody else asked you about that, you will be forced to lie about it, you would have to keep that secret to lying. Okay, so I think all the things that he’s done has been towards that

George Ward
in response to that. We know he’s lied to people. He’s never lied to the press, as far as we know, he would have no, no reason to lie to a wider audience. Right. He lies the people who come up to him and try to get information on sort of a personal level. And he did it before the hunt was huge before he knew we would be able to share those lies amongst ourselves. The things that he said back when the book where it was written, he he said that the back of the book has no, no bearing on the secret. And with the Chicago Tribune, November 16 1982, he says, a description of the responsible parties, the fair people who one learns hid all their hoard over the continent more than 300 years ago, takes up three quarters of the book, though the description is completely irrelevant to the hunt. Why would he tell the press that if, if it were untrue, why would he lead his general audience astray? The people he’s trying to get buy the book during the time he’s trying to get them to book buy the book? Why would he lead them astray?

Seeds
That’s why I have a hard time believing in the back of the book right there. All 100% of me. Yeah, for those

Bradley Hodges
of you that aren’t 100%, certain what we’re referencing, just to give you some context, the FET, the field guide to the fair people starts on page 55. and ends on page 216, where it asks for you to submit your sightings of the fair people, the versus the actual beginning of the book, including telling you that there’s a puzzle, the verses in the images ends on page 54. So that’s the huge amount that we’re talking about as the back of the book. And that Byron did, in fact, say is not applicable to the actual puzzle itself.

Carley Perales
Based on what you said, up to the offer that quote, number one, I don’t know if it was a quote, I think it was something that the journalist wrote. And so it’s impossible to know the full context of if a question was asked by the reporter. And that was his response. And then the reporter encapsulated it, you lose context in that. So that’s, that’s one thing, too, if you put together a project like this, hold on one sec. If you put together a project like this, and you spent two years, and you had different people doing different things, and you were literally the evil genius that was hiding all the clues and all this, would you really want to just give it away? I mean, it’s called The Secret, right? Would you really want to give away the secret? If if the secret is that the answers are the back of the book? Okay. I would say no, I would say you would definitely tell people, Hey, you don’t you don’t need the back? Well, there’s

Bradley Hodges
definitely a benefit for him. For people to find these puzzles sooner than later. He definitely wanted to publish a second book. The point was to have people find these, publish that they found them, make money, sell books, sell a second book, make more money. So people absolutely were not able to find these. There’s no money in it for him. So I don’t think he would work that hard to lead people astray.

George Ward
I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that a journalist would lie about that, especially back then and especially in in the context of the article, you’re writing an article helping an editor sell a treasure hunt book. And and you think it’s reasonable to assume that the the author of that article would just tell people in in a happenstance way that three quarters of the book, the book doesn’t matter. Like that, if there’s anything in the back of the book, and the journalists were to say that in an article and it’s untrue, it would destroy the entire treasure hunt. Byron would be up in arms trying to correct that, but he never did he just let it go. It’s reasonable to assume that the the quote that’s in that article is correct. That Byron did say that to the journalist.

Karleen
So what’s the definition of that though? Like, I mean, if you dissect that and not that you should or shouldn’t, but like, yes, you need the birth. Yes, you need the image, but As I we were talking earlier before the before the recording, you know, for these Dallas in Houston people, why can’t just a few little hints in the back let you know that it’s definitely Houston and not Dallas. It’s not that it’s the definitive answer. It’s more like, oh, PS, this is where you really should focus like, does that make sense? Like I’m not saying that it’s the be all and end all? I’m just saying for several cities that are like, for example, is it in Brooklyn? Or is it in Manhattan? Well, if you look in the back, you can make that determination.

George Ward
But you are saying it’s the be all end all if you’re saying that the verse leads most people to Houston, but the back of the book gives you a little hint that says, No, it’s not actually Houston, it’s Dallas. That’s the be all end all answer of the hunt. That’s the most important part. It’s the part that says, hey, a lot of this verse, it’s lying to you. Like it’s not in Hermann Park in Houston that that quote from from Herman Melville, that doesn’t matter. It’s actually in Dallas, you’re saying that all the answers reside in a place where Byron himself both in the book and in articles said, there’s no answers there. But we but we agree that it least the illustrations, there are clues. We all agree with that. But how far do those go? Right? You’ve got the Houston image with the shuttle. And then you’ve got the Houston image with the giant H and the 92. Train. And that’s obviously a clue. Right? But are there like maps? And and just because we already know that per yard and that jjp and Lloyd, we’re working on illustrations based on information from Byron, we don’t know that Shawn and Ted were. So it doesn’t necessarily follow that just because there are clues in the illustrations that there are in the text.

Bradley Hodges
I’m not going to that, George, you can pull this from the podcast if you want to. But I am going to say that somebody did tell me that. Yes. Byron did say make sure these words are here in this description.

George Ward
Kind of. That’s what he that’s what he kind of told you. What he told you was, it’s odd that no one’s ever taken the first part of one word, matched it with the first part of another word, and made a third completely different word. And that’s fine to talk about, because we’ve talked about it on the podcast before, but no one’s ever listened. Because no one cares that I’ve always I’ve said, like, yeah, you can find clues probably in the back of the book, but nobody’s looking for them the right way. Like that, that call that two column structure from the back of the book. That’s weird.

Bradley Hodges
There’s a very specific structure to the format, like you said, the two columns. And that seems strange. So why, why is that structured that way?

Seeds
Oh, I want to know the answer to that one. Because it’s very confusing.

George Ward
We just told you the answer to that when seats Oh, take

Seeds
one word attitude. Another word that you get one big word that it’s over here. So there, that’s how I feel about it.

George Ward
But okay, so let’s bring, let’s bring it back back around. Let’s talk about Cleveland. Right? Because I know if I bring up Chicago, we’re just going to talk about the Chicago World’s fairy for four hours. Let’s talk about Cleveland. How does cleave how does the back of the book help us in Cleveland?

Karleen
I don’t think it has to help you. Because I just don’t think

George Ward
it’s nice. We agree. I don’t think

Karleen
I think the back of the book is specific to New York, Houston, and Canada. That’s it. I don’t think

George Ward
you think three quarters of this book is focused on helping you in New York, and Canada. And where else were where else was it?

Karleen
I think it’s making you realize it’s not in Dallas. It’s in Houston. It’s making you realize it’s not St. Louis, you know, that it’s, you see what I’m saying? Like, I think it’s just for the ones that are like really hard. I don’t think Cleveland has anything to do with the back of the box. So

George Ward
something tells me Carla Carly’s gonna disagree with this. Carly, do you have a thought?

Carley Perales
Oh, yeah. So Cleveland, I got a couple things right off the top here. So the post post Monster Girl, you know, there’s a centaur in the picture, right? And it talks about the Centaur in reverse in the Postmaster General. And we know that the towers upside down, we know that they were on the wrong side when they were searching for it. So that could have been a potential clue that they needed to change sides and reverse sides to the center from one column to the other. You know, just a little subtle thing like that could have been enough to put them on the right track there. And then the other one is the calculus with his mention of Euclid. And Euclidean geometry is based on plain geometry and there’s a The triangle right there in the image. So I think a lot of that in the in the calculus is hinting towards the use of math. And if you look at that entire verse has given you a grid that you got to work from front to back, right to left, top to bottom to pinpoint the spot. And so that’s all plain geometry right there. So, I mean, I kind of think that there are things in there if you’re, if you’re, like I said, if you’re reading between the lines.

George Ward
Okay, so let me go back to the Postmaster General, because the other, you’re basically lost me. Okay. So you’re talking about where it says the citizens of his native arome believed the Postmaster General to be a sort of Centaur and reverse a creature with the hind quarters of a horse for a head, the hind quarters of the hind quarters of a horse for a head, a top a pair of all two human flat feet. Right? So it’s saying it’s a reverse Centaur. Right, that instead of Yeah. Okay, so how, and just because it’s saying it’s a reverse Centaur. We’re supposed to apply that to Cleveland, because Cleveland has the Centaur in the image. Right. That’s what you’re saying? Doesn’t

Karleen
it also say how can we make his way from Italy?

Carley Perales
Well, I think there’s also things in the image that are reversed, right?

Karleen
While the terminal towers upside down,

George Ward
internal towers upside down, that’s it? Well, I guess the, the numbers, the for the latitude and longitude are reverse. So yeah, that goes with,

Carley Perales
those are reversed. I think if you look at the actual map, the map around the area of the cast, where it was found, the Shakespeare drive creates a small triangle that’s basically flip flopped opposite. If you were looking at it as a map. I think there’s a lot of things that it kind of talks to, just by reversing things to the sort of the center point of the jewel in the image.

George Ward
How do you flip a triangle?

Karleen
So was it found between like the Greek and the Italian garden, wasn’t it those two?

George Ward
It was in the Greek gardens next to the Italian gardens, and I don’t remember okay,

Karleen
because it says how he made his way from Italy to these shores remains a mystery. I mean, is that a clue? I don’t know. But you go from Italy to Greece, right there in that part of the garden? Well, you never

Bradley Hodges
actually have to go into the Italian garden whatsoever for that.

George Ward
Yeah. Oh, it’s

Karleen
between those signs.

George Ward
No, it’s an it’s in the middle of the Italian in the Lithuanian gardens. Okay, what is the Greek cultural gardens? Oh, it’s actually it’s in the center of the Italian, the Ukraine and the Lithuanian?

Bradley Hodges
Well, it’s the Italian then it’s the Greek and then there’s some other down the road.

George Ward
Lithuanian? Yeah. So okay. I’ll give it to you. I mean, it talks about a centaur. There’s a centaur in the image talks about a reverse Centaur. Sure. What about Boston? What do we have for Boston?

Carley Perales
Oh, Boston, there’s a 10. So first, I would say the beginning of the book prep school is definitely for Boston. It’s it’s Boston and New York, in my opinion, because it’s talking about the Ivy League. And so there’s some there’s some references to the Ivy League that that gets you to the general area. And I think the biggest one from the prep school actually comes from the images, the illustrations in there. The the pictures of him standing there, he’s always the ones that have stairs in them, he has his back to the stairs, and the image where he’s standing in front of the girl. And also on the next page of the image where he’s kind of facing down the stairs. You know, that would be almost as if he was coming down the cop. So terrorists for example, you’re coming down the stairs there. I think the other thing from that picture with the with the woman is look at her leg. And how she’s got her toe lifted. I’m sorry, her heel lifted, and her toe is pointing straight down. And so just look at her leg from the knee down. The one that’s that’s bent and then compare that to the leg in the painting for Boston. The leg that is right next to the edge of home plate in the image. And it is basically the same shape of leg just flip flopped.

George Ward
I mean a leg of the leg.

Bradley Hodges
Exact same thing.

George Ward
That’s that’s been ASINs wife. That’s his that’s his wife’s leg. Just you know, he

Seeds
had very nice legs. Yes,

George Ward
he said so. And we’re it’s cool for us to say that because Ben said it first. I mean, Bradley Bradley agrees and I mean a legs leg. And what I think what I’m getting at is, if Boston were not solved, this helps us in no way. It just doesn’t help us. We would have never made that connection. No one made that connection before Boston was solved. It was afterwards.

Karleen
Right? But how great that we’re using it to look at things?

George Ward
Oh, yeah, it’s awesome. If we could find some stuff in like the Bible that relates to the secret, that’d be great, too. But it doesn’t mean it’s a clue. It just means that we’re finding things that are kind of similar.

Bradley Hodges
So I think, I think that’s a stretch to argue. I mean, we’re talking about things in the same book here.

George Ward
You know what I mean? Right? It’s a, it’s a big, a lot of words. It’s a lot of pictures. There’s a lot of things that we could find where it’s like, you know, this verse talks about stairs and their stairs in this image.

Carley Perales
I don’t know, I don’t know how often they use stairs. I got a couple more if you want to. Yeah, go down. So some of the fairies? The, the household unfamiliar, I would say is probably one of the best examples of it. Because it kind of ties into what we were just kind of going into there. You know, it basically says that, you know, he let me find a spot here. I’m sorry.

Bradley Hodges
Okay, pretty sure. This is Byron’s fridge, if I remember correctly,

George Ward
yeah, it was it was barn spreads.

Carley Perales
So speaking of the refrigerator, okay, all these pranks, and more are the work of the household unfamiliar. But his special Providence is the refrigerator, where he moves as soon as you start to feel at home. So we get a dress. And it’s talking about movement, right? And so on the next page, actually, at the bottom of that page, and the next page, there’s a picture of him in the refrigerator. And in both of those pictures, he’s taking a step. And so I know a lot of people out there believe that it was five step from home plate. I’m not one of them. I think it was one step. I think that I think the image shows that. And I think that this coincides with the image, in that it’s a single step from home plate. I think the leg from the prep school shows the direction off the home plate. And I think when you combine those two things, they would have given you the exact deck spot

George Ward
with that completely contradicts the verse.

Bradley Hodges
And verse tells not all five steps.

George Ward
It says those who say five steps, not only does it completely contradict the verse, it completely contradicts the surveyor who said, this is where the cask was, this is where the hole was, where he dug the cask. So if that’s true, both the verse and the surveyor are lying to you.

Seeds
Well, Bradley, I, I honestly think that all this is Battle of the assumptions, man. I mean, it. It’s all just, you know, this is why I believe and this is why I believe you’re right, you’re wrong. You’re wrong. You’re right kind of thing. You know what I mean? Whatever it takes for somebody to be able to actually find a cask better off for you. Yeah, that’s no, I

George Ward
mean, I completely agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. And if you want to use the back of the book, then then by all means, feel free. But I maintain that this has told us nothing new. Now, George,

Seeds
George, if I’m remembering correctly, George, yeah. And we are watching all the life and I was watching expedition or EU. Hi, everyone say it. When Jason and Jason Krupp I think that’s how you say his last name. And J. G is allied calm, we’re walking JG turned to Jason asked him, How do you find this? Jason responded by what I read in the back of the book. Now, I’m not that familiar with Boston, or the back of the book that pertains to Boston. But something back to the book he read. Put him towards that location. We’re gonna go find out. Okay. That’s yeah,

Bradley Hodges
I will say this. So while he’s checking that out, I like Jason crew, Pat’s personality. He’s a cool, dude. I love that his family got involved. I love that episode that they put together. I agree with very little of his soul. So I mean, yeah, gotten there. And kudos to him. He’s the one that got credit for it. But I would not use him as a solidifying reference as he said this, so it’s a good argument for why this is true.

Seeds
He does have the jewel though. Bradley. He does have the jewel.

Bradley Hodges
He does have a jewel. You’re 100%. Right. Yes. Parts of a casket. He’s got parts of a key. He’s got parts of a lid. So kudos to him. I take it.

Seeds
Yeah. Especially when an estimator found it. Right.

Bradley Hodges
He didn’t even have to be in poison ivy.

Seeds
He had to do nothing. Poor guy. Had you ever get that looked at?

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, man. I got a steroid prescription from my doctor. It’s pretty nasty. It’s like all over me

Seeds
except itches, doesn’t it? Like, so fast?

Bradley Hodges
So So for those that don’t know what we’re talking about? We’re killing time here. But about a week ago, I was digging, and I started finding some interesting things. So I just started going hands on and I was just digging with my hands in the dirt. I found a bunch of bricks. I found some old metal pipes. I found a really old marble which was really cool. I found some old Old like tubes like like a tube of toothpaste type stuff. I found an old shoe soul, an old leather shoe soul and some other neat things. And the whole time I was doing this and my wife was like, There’s poison ivy or poison oak over there. Just be careful. I was like, well, it’s over. They aren’t even touching the leaves. Well, I had no idea you can get that stuff from the root systems. And I was definitely tearing out roots. So about a few days later, my hand started swelling and started blistering and then my arms and my legs and my face and it was nasty. So if you’re digging wear gloves, because I did not know. But you get that stuff through the root systems. I’m still fighting. How?

Seeds
How far down your body. Did you get it? Oh,

Bradley Hodges
I got it from head to toe.

Seeds
Head to toe, huh? Oh,

Bradley Hodges
it’s everywhere. Yeah, it’s everywhere. Except for the two places you really don’t want it to be. Me. Bradley. This

Seeds
the best part? exaggerated a little bit. Just last night was the only tip

Bradley Hodges
Did you say the tip or the tip?

Seeds
Good tip, baby. Tip.

Bradley Hodges
I have it on the tip, but not the tip.

George Ward
So just to cut this awesome conversation short. I did look. I think I think what you’re talking about is when Josh gates asked Jason, what painting he used. He said this one the one on the front of the book.

Seeds
I’m gonna go look, stamp. Alright,

George Ward
you go. Look, it’s on 12 treasures.com in the media section under episode three.

Bradley Hodges
So favorite crew pack quote from that was whenever they’re outside the ballpark? And he’s like, Well, it’s got signed saying you can’t get in there and crew fast like, yeah, that was a problem.

George Ward
I want to piggyback on my last comment. Nobody’s brought anything to me. That’s new. Nobody’s brought anything that’s helped. That’s helpful to me. Carly, what is your most convincing? What do you think is most convincing? That’s new. What do you think that you found in the back of the book that will help somebody that, you know, for puzzle that we’ve never we haven’t solved?

Carley Perales
My whole thing is I’ve always posted stuff that I think helps solve the newer ones, the ones that haven’t been solved. And the pushback that I always get is, well, there’s nothing in there that would have helped any of the ones that have already been solved. So that’s why I changed my focus. And I started looking at the the puzzles that had been solved, trying to find things in there. And you’re right there, there isn’t anything that I’ve given you, that would help you anything new. But if you didn’t know anything about Austin, and you saw the he was taking a step, or that feel at home, maybe it was an important thing because it stood out that could potentially help you. So I mean, it’s kind of tough to say what would help somebody that hasn’t seen anything, but I mean, I can give you a great pull out of the Chicago world earlier if you want to talk about Chicago for a minute. So in the Chicago World’s fairy, it, it starts off with a reference where it’s in the very first paragraph under the range. It says hog butcher, toolmaker and stacker of wheat. That’s a poem called Chicago by by Carl Sandburg. And if you look up that author, he has three bullets or surprise, Pulitzer Prizes. Yeah, two of them are for his poetry. And the third one is for his book on Abraham Lincoln. And so being in Chicago, I think that’s a way that you can kind of infer something about the Chicago puzzle. Then it talks about what he’s surrounded by. And so it says that, you know, he’s got barren, windswept plains, surrounding him on three sides. So he snuggles up against Lake Michigan for warmth. And we all know that Grant Park is literally literally right up against the lake. It also says that he’s surrounded by impossible fields. Soldiers Wrigley, Marshall and O’Hare. And this is something I just found out the other day. So if you’re on Google Earth at home, pull up Chicago. And plugin have a point for Wrigley Field right at the front of the baseball field where the sign is the famous sign. And then Marshall Fields was a famous store that the Macy’s building is in now. So you’d have to Google the address on that one. And then Soldier Field is where the bears play, and put all three of those points into your map. And then draw a likely field to Soldier Field. And you’ll see that it goes right through Marshall Field store. All three of those are in a direct line to each other. And the interesting thing is also on that line is the entrance to Grant Park and the Bowman statue. So that’s something directly from the text that if you were to plot these positions on a map, could it lead you directly to the entrance of the park? To the Bowman step two, and then use the Carl Sandburg reference, you know, with the Abraham Lincoln autobiography then then would add something.

George Ward
Okay, so the back of the book is telling you look for these things that we’ve already put in the painting, or look for these things that we’ve already put in the bursts like it, like the things that you’re finding, that’s not new. It’s not, it’s not even really something that I would consider a confirmer. I mean, it’s just like, it’s words that are sort of related to the verse and draw drawing a line. I mean, that’s, I mean, that’s, that’s good. I guess. It’s good. But I just don’t know, like, it’s tricky.

Carley Perales
Remember what I said at the beginning, about what I believe? I mean, I believe that the answers are in the back. So if the clue is, you know, over his shoulder, but you don’t know who he is, then the answer is in the back. If you do your research, you’ll figure out his Lincoln, right. But if you follow I mean, that’s how I think they connect.

George Ward
Or you could just follow the verse and know who else is. Like, if you don’t follow the verse, you don’t know who MMB is, that’s not in the back of the book, either. You have to follow the verse to know the verse.

Karleen
If I could interject for just a second, what you’re saying is absolutely correct. But why does that make the back of the book incorrect? Do you I’m saying like, yes, you can do that. But why does it mean you can’t do this, too?

George Ward
I mean, Lauren said, like the back of the book doesn’t matter. He that’s what he said. I just swingset but

Karleen
but if he didn’t say that, you can’t use it to help you.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, so I’m liking some of the logic Carly’s coming up with I don’t the line thing. Okay. But I like the, the the references that you’re coming up with. And I didn’t put two and two together with with what you just talked about with Chicago. So I liked that information. So yeah, again, I know I said at the beginning of the images have confirmed but okay, cool. I like this for confirms in the text as well, for certain things, I can see that that can seem helpful. Not needed, but absolutely helpful.

Karleen
I think that’s where I am with all of this is it’s not, it’s not 100% necessary at all. But I mean, hey, it’s there.

George Ward
So my thing is, if we take the back of the book, and we take these five or 10, or 20, or whatever things that we’re deciding are clues out of this 100 And whatever pages what’s to stop us from taking red herrings, what’s the how do we know? How do we know what’s a clue? And what’s not? How do we know? That Naga hides a clue? Or how do we know that? You know, I mean, Chicago World’s very I got it. It’s about Chicago, whatever. But how do we know that these things are clues and something random isn’t?

Carley Perales
Okay, so George had asked, Is there anything new that I could bring, that would possibly solve something else. And if anybody has ever seen my New York solution, you know, I basically end up at Roosevelt Island, and I use the Queensboro Bridge, and the St. Nicholas Cathedral, and I create on the map, a truck, basically an angle. And and that leads me out to a story of Park. And what’s interesting about the points that I just gave you in Chicago, is there was also O’Hare, which is out to the east, sorry, to the west. And then there was also three mentions of the fires that were in Chicago, there was at 93 at the Columbian Exposition, position 1934, which was the the which one was that that was the stockyard fire. And then in 1968, he was basically making fun of the Democratic Convention, which was a dumpster fire. So where you plug in those positions on the map, along with the three I added before, and you’re going to use O’Hare Airport, you’re going to use the international amphitheater, which is where the Democratic Convention was, and you’re going to use Jackson Park, where the Columbian Exposition was, you’re going to see that from Wrigley Field through the Marshall Field store, through Soldier Field. So Soldier Field, and all the way down to Jackson Park is in exactly a straight line. And then from Jackson Park, you’re gonna go through the International amphitheater, and it’ll take you directly to O’hare and it creates a very large angle. Here’s what’s interesting about how that ties into New York. So the Chicago World’s fairy, its scientific name up at the top is herbs so CUDA, which is second city, in the very first line in the range, it talks about it has a titanic inferiority complex. That’s because it’s been compared to New York. And the palm Chicago by Carl Sandburg was basically him describe describing it as a chant of defiance against New York. And so if all of these things are pointing to New York, and you get this giant triangle, it has the exact same ratios and dimensions as the triangle that I created at Roosevelt Island. So when I see stuff like that, I just don’t think it’s a coincidence. All right, I’ll post that in the group. Once this goes up. That would be something new that would hopefully lead you to the cask in New York. Oh, gosh,

George Ward
I just what I really want to do, I really like I feel like my goal in this and having no structure sucks, I know. But my goal in this is given Carly a fair shake, because I feel like Carly gets a lot of shit. So really, I just want to get as much stuff out as Carly wants to talk about. So Carly, whatever you want to talk about, lead us into it and we’ll go down it, I just want you to be able to have a time when you can get all of this out there in a way that people understand if that makes sense. So wherever you want to go, don’t wait for us to just take just take us there, man.

Bradley Hodges
We’re on your school bus drive us Yeah, drive.

Carley Perales
So I think one of the things that’s really interesting is how certain fairies have references in them. That can be a hint to how we should approach solving the puzzles. So for example, in the pilgrim, it has a dictionary definition of the word Pil. And then the word Grimm being a goblins game from the Encyclopedia of fairies. Those are two reference books that I think are important to us solving this thing. And he threw him in there early in the book, so that we would have an idea, hey, you might want to pull out your dictionary, so that you can look up words, you might want to have this book The Encyclopedia of fairies, so you can understand what some of these fairies are all about. I think there’s there’s a lot of little things like that hidden in there. I’ll give you another example. In the Postmaster General, and the leprechaun man, they both have zip codes listed in there. And we know from the Boston salt that the zip code was pretty important. And then one other one is the the nomenclature. It talks a lot about, you know, synonyms, and euphemisms and double entendres, reading between the lines, which is also mentioned in the Pentagon, Oregon. So I think all of those kinds of things are just ways that it’s trying to tell us, hey, pay attention to these things, as you’re reading through all these fairies. The other the other one that pops up a lot is the word abroad. And aboard. And I think that he kind of messes with that word. And I know that you know, some of the reference materials with, you know, the, the one, the one book that has a few of the different references abroad in America, whatever it was called, my body. I think that was maybe what he was trying to get us leave it leave us to there.

Seeds
I want to talk about I like to I like to know, like, if you’re, if you’re starting out with this, and everything if you’re new to the search, and if you want to, you know, kind of figure out where your fair people belong. And like, you know, you start out the litany of jewels. That’s how I did it. I went from the litany of jewels, and I found out my fair persons origin. From there, and also from lending jewels, I figured out which painting goes to which immigration, you know, and

Bradley Hodges
yeah, I think I think that’s a good starting point for everybody. The the key thing that was discovered that I think, got everybody on the right track was the fact that there is some sort of way to get a one through 12 out of each painting, connect that to the litany of jewels, and then there’s your biggest starting point.

George Ward
Yeah, I mean, I think so were what you were saying, Man, new people. I think new people would have the easiest time finding things in the back of the book, because like, if you’re just jumping into if you just bought the book, and you’ve never heard podcast, and you’ve never joined the Facebook pages, you never saw EU. There’s no hindrance for us in the back of the book. He certainly was saying, like over the over the past 20 years or whatever. There’s been a big hindrance online people saying the back of the book doesn’t matter. The back of the book doesn’t matter. So if anybody’s going to find any sort of connection to the back of the books can be a new person, somebody without that sort of hindrance. I don’t know if that answers your question, but it’s just

Carley Perales
one of the things that I’ve kind of thought about just a tad One quitsies was saying, you know, I’ve looked through all these fairies and tried to figure out their immigration tie in. And I think that the things you got to be careful with is just because something ties into a certain immigration group doesn’t necessarily mean that it ties in to that particular puzzle that we know the immigration theme matches with. And I’ll give you an example. If you find a Greek reference, and you think, well, that has to mean that this is a clue for Cleveland. Well, you also have to remember that Boston’s verse has a Greek reference directly in the verse. So it’s possible that that that Greek reference that you found could be a clue for Boston, and it could be referencing Xenophon and acidities. Yeah, that’s so it’s just important to kind of keep some of those things in mind.

George Ward
It just like in like the backyard barbecue, right? The the barber creeps ancestors were horned and furry hot satyrs, or whatever of ancient Greece, who unwillingly used to use to participate in many a goat roast and Arcady today, whatever. So well, how do we know that? Because that’s talking about, you know, Greek characters coming? Or people coming from Greece? How do we know that that’s not talking about Cleveland?

Carley Perales
I think you’d have to do some trial and error on some of these, right? I mean, just like, as you’re trying to solve the verse, you’re gonna have solves that don’t work. And you’re gonna go back to the drawing board, I think as you kind of go through the back of the book, if you find something, you’re going to see if it fits into whatever solution you’re working on. And if it doesn’t, then maybe you got to look at a different direction. Another one is the rich doctor. You know, we know that there’s a rich in the painting for Boston, and the rich doctor is a play on words for the witch doctor. Yeah. And so right there, you get a little bit of a tie in with the witch theme. And in the rich doctor, there’s a talk, there’s a section where it talks about attic Greece, you know, which is, you know, Ancient Greece. And that’s right, when xenophobia and facilities were doing their thing. So, you know, you’d have to make a decision on is this referring to Cleveland? Or is this referring to Boston?

George Ward
But you’re saying like, it’s, it’s really just a trial and error thing? There’s no way in this method of using the back of the book to know something’s true. I mean, because the verse tells you, the verse tells you when something is true, right, you go from point A to point B, if point B doesn’t match up, point A was wrong. You see what I’m saying? But there’s no, there’s no method like that in the back of the book at all.

Karleen
I don’t think there’s a formula, especially like, you know, for example, I’m looking at on real estate brokers, and under the picture, it talks about them, you know, being between Catalina and Hawaii, well, we know there’s no cask in either of those places. So I feel like, you know, that’s a lot of red herrings is like throwing in, you know, cities and states like that. So I don’t know that there’s a formula

George Ward
that makes us know better than I guess. Right? Yeah. Okay. So we’re just guessing,

Carley Perales
you want to hear something really interesting, what you just brought up. So if you plug in Florida, and Hawaii, just into your Google or just just search, Florida is gonna give you a dot right in the middle of it, run a line between those two? And you’re gonna see that that line goes right through Houston.

George Ward
Yeah, but it goes right through a lot of other cities, too. If you do that,

Carley Perales
throughout the entire book, you’re going to start to see lines that are going to go in areas over cities that have castes.

George Ward
Yeah, and if you follow the Lincoln Highway, you’re gonna go through a bunch of Cassidy’s Hell, if you just drive down the interstate, you’re gonna go through all the cast cities, that doesn’t necessarily mean that either of them have to do with the puzzle. Furthermore, and 1982, you couldn’t just Google Florida on Google Maps and have it plop you right down in the center of a city. You can’t map things that way. I mean, like, these, these lines that you’re creating using Google Earth this way, don’t make any sense in 1982. But let’s say for pretend that they do. Let’s say for pretend that in 1982, you could pop on your computer, you could boot up Google Earth or whatever. You could type in Florida, it will drop you on a map, you create your line, whatever. If the line runs right through Houston, what makes Houston so special, right? Why are we stopping at Houston? Why not continue on so the next city or the city after that, and the city after that, or the city before Houston even or four cities before Houston? What’s to say we’re not looking in Florida, why not stop at one of the Florida cities? What’s causing us to stop? What’s causing us to stop is the fact that we already know the answer. We didn’t need this to get there. So

Carley Perales
if you took all the references, I’ve done this by the way, you take all the references of cities or places that you can pin point through, there’s probably about 13, or 14 of the fairies that have specific points that you could put down. And you start plotting them out, you’ll see that there’ll be lines that go directly through places. And it just, I think, overall, if you were back in 1982, and you had your map and you started doing this, you will start to see that, man, there’s a lot of lines that are going through this area. What’s in this area? Oh, there’s a lot of lines that go through this area up here. Why is this area so important?

Seeds
Draw your lines. Everybody draw your lines?

George Ward
Yes, everybody open your map to page seven.

Bradley Hodges
I left my protractor at home. Yeah, this is

George Ward
the problem that I thought I was gonna get into in this episode, because it’s hard. Like, we just sort of have to take that at face value. And there’s not really a way we can argue it because we can’t see it. I’ll post

Carley Perales
all these after this episode comes out. Another one that’s really easy, is the Mater demon. It talks about Monticello being there with Jefferson. And then moving north to the Capitol, which is Washington DC. If you run a line through Washington DC, from Monticello, we go straight to the Verrazano Bridge, right to New York, the entrance to the to the harbor. There’s all kinds of things like that in the field guide.

Seeds
But if I was looking at this, if I was looking at this back in 1980, before post internet there, I would never have thought about drawing a line directly down directly across or anything like that. I mean, I wouldn’t say I’m not that smart.

Karleen
I think I think some people would though. Yeah. But I mean, I think that’s just a way uh, you know, especially with a lot of the puzzles that were around, then you did that you had, you know, you had your compass and your map and your ruler, and that’s, you know, so why not experiment with it, right.

George Ward
But I don’t know, in 1982, how I’m going to put a map, how I’m going to put a.on, a map in Washington, DC and a.in, the map anywhere else and know that that line points directly to a bridge. Right? I can’t get a map that big. That shows me where a bridge is.

Bradley Hodges
So I think what we’ve established at this point is that we all agree that there are things in the back of the book that can be confirmed, but what is yet to be proven. And if there’s a format in which the information in the back of the book can be directly applied to the puzzles, and is not a confirmer, necessarily, but a tool to help you solve the puzzles. And none of us know how that can how that can work in Carly’s prison. It’s some wonderful ideas. But no no workable, repeatable format as to how to apply these ideas to the other puzzles, which I think is what we’re all looking for now at this point.

George Ward
Yeah. And I mean, I still I still like, even given all this, I still don’t necessarily buy it. There’s a lot in the back of this book. And we’re just picking and choosing, we’re picking and choosing little things. And we’re saying this is this is a clue because it’s similar. Or it because it leads us to where we already know we’re going. But there’s a lot in the back of this book we’re just not looking at that would lead us to other places. So let me let me read this. This is something I can’t hold against anybody for not having because it didn’t come out until like an hour ago. Or, you know, yesterday, whatever. The back of the book. Let me just read this to you. There’s a couple of pages in the Japanese book that aren’t in the English book. And the pages, they’re called, What about the descendants? So I’m just going to read what about the descendants to you. It’s written entirely in Japanese. Nobody knew what it said until it was recently translated. And a note about the the Japanese book, we’ve got a person who doesn’t want to be public yet, who has been working with the original translator who translated Byron’s words into Japanese for this book have translated the entire book. And the Japanese has been working with them to get as accurate as a recreation of the Japanese book in English as possible. Like every page that he read translates back to English, he has to send to the original translator and have them approved, he has to pay money to do this, just to make them as accurate as possible. And there are some things in the back of in the Japanese hints section, especially that we’ve gotten completely wrong. Like, lane on Montreal, it’s wrong. The Japanese hint is just flat out wrong. And hopefully soon once everything’s approved, it’ll, it’ll lead a little more. It’ll give a little more clarity to what’s going on back there. Anyway, two pages in the Japanese book that never been translated that aren’t in the English book. They’re called What about the descendants and it goes like this. This is roughly translated by the way so the English is a little funky. Sorry. What about the descendants, the various fair people enter In this book were descendants of fairies migrated from European country to avoid humans. Therefore, they had nothing to do with the traditional orthodox fairy tales commonly told in Europe. They are created by the book’s original authors for the purpose of a game, the game sorry they are created by the books original authors and editor for the purpose of the game game I suppose as you read throughout the book, each was written humorously with playful spirits as, as each represent a different criticism of a nowadays society. The sharpness was impressive, I wonder who the author was, I was convinced the two authors Shawn cat and Ted Man were both editors of the National Lampoon a very popular monthly American humor magazine. As many of readers here might not be familiar with the authors and the National Lampoon magazine. Here’s a brief introduction of the magazine. The National Lampoon was first published in 1970. Yes, an era when American college students had the sharpest consciousness. Its mother magazine, Harvard Lampoon was started by graduates of Harvard University by the way, the word lampoon means a sharp, often vitriol and satire against an individual or society, a satire literature a sarcasm, ironic culture, etc. The magazine was created in such an era it represents a strong criticism rather than visual appeal like comics. The magazine was known for its short stories with catchy typefaces and various forms of humor as its weapon. In other words, instead of rushing a hit with a with a rigid head, they, they they separated the attack and the various themes by different artists to form recognitions. It’s, it’s sarcastically entertaining. In various field guide, the latter half of the book, a strong lampoon style was was cultivated by the editors of the magazine demonstrated throughout the book. However, we have a problem here, because the target audience were mainly readers of North America, when it was read by someone not familiar with American culture and current situations, let alone laugh. These are things most people couldn’t even understand. In this regard, even for the readers here in the United States. A lot of things here in this book, not all readers are able to laugh or either under even understand, Mr. Price said so himself. That includes me, the translator and all the staff in the editorial department of photography shobo, we’re all scratching our heads. We even thought about noting the jokes and satires, but then the notes will be longer than the story. Therefore, the editor, which would be Byron

decided that we should rewrite the content of the book, even though of course, nobody should rewrite it haphazardly. As a result, after various thoughts and considerations, so based on each varies given name and their individual story, the general story was rewritten. Even though I’m not very familiar with American general culture, it was rewritten to better fit readers in jet in Japan. Therefore, most of the contents of the ferries Field Guide strictly speaking wasn’t really a translation. After all, the staff and editor all suggested a rewrite over translations. All the staffs agreed, a simple, readable story that readers could enjoy what’s far better than something no one understands. Last but not least, I wanted to thank Shozo Akita and Shindo America and, and editors department for for Tommy, for publishing this book, I’d like to take the opportunity to express my sincere gratitude. What we take from this is Byron thought the back of the book was so like, it didn’t matter. It didn’t matter, the 100 Didn’t matter enough to even get a sort of rewrite. It didn’t get any editor’s notes from him, it didn’t get anything, they completely rewrote it in a completely different story. Nothing from the English version is in the Japanese version. And if Biron loved this possible include pictures, well, some of the pictures, some of the pictures, some of the pictures are there. But then there are some additional pictures and they’re, they’re done by another artist who we found the artist we know they’re his work, they have nothing to do with the secret. They were just sort of like clip art. I’m just saying for the general podcast audience, we’re not going to release his name because we don’t want people to bother him. You’re just gonna have you have to take our word for it. We found him he’s one of our friends on Facebook is good dude. He just wants to be left alone. He has nothing to do with this book but the little clipart illustrations nothing to do with the no hence the back of the book in Japanese is completely different from the back of the book and English it’s it’s just Byron didn’t think the back of the book was important enough to even think about

Karleen
Alright, so boys, what do you think about that? What do you think about like, I mean, like general thought seeds and Carly, what do you think about that?

Seeds
You only need one poem, one painting. I’m sorry, I’m serious. I’m sorry. But I’ve been researching this. I’ve been researching this for the last week. I’ve been working 1415 hour days coming home just hit was so hard. And I was so excited about the progress I made with my friends, Nick and Caroline on it. But to me, it basically just gave me a play the state and the city, but nothing else. And if I didn’t have that I can still figure it out. We’ll have not figured out because I haven’t found one with just one painting one poem. So to me, the three quarters of the book, just if you didn’t have it, I don’t think it matter.

George Ward
I mean, it’s a it’s a valid argument to make. The book says All you need is a painting and a verse. Byron told reporters, all you needed was a painting and a verse, Byron told reporters, the back of the book that matter. Byron cared so much about the back of the book that he didn’t even care if it was translated in Japanese. You take all these facts together, and until we have some sort of concrete evidence from the back of the book that can’t be denied, that leads to something new, that leads to a cast. You have to believe the Creator. I’m sorry. I mean, in my opinion, the evidence is overwhelming. There’s nothing helpful in the text of the back of the book.

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George Ward
Bradley Hodges
Seeds
Carly Perales
Karleen

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