George Ward
So welcome everybody to the first live secret podcast. This is super weird for us. Thank you. Thank you all for coming out. I have no idea how many people are here. It’s much more than San Francisco, which means east coast is the best coast. So with us today, we’ve got Bradley Hodges. John Fraser, the Brian’s in we’re gonna start with a little bit about, I know all of you have taken a tour of the park gotten a little bit of its history. John, I kind of wanted to know from you, what was your history of the hunt? In this part? How did you find out about it? And you seem to kind of really like it. What draws you to the hunt?

John Fraser
Well, I found out about the hunt in 2004 2005, when two ladies came through the gift shop and had flown down from Ohio and had read and read about it. And it shared it with one of our employees.

Brian Zinn
Those two ladies are dope, where are they Kim an AD AD, right there I

John Fraser
go to here, just flew down to Ohio. They got me all excited about it and get it we walked around, we talked a lot about manmade structures. And you know, and again, the whole idea about penetrating the ground, since it only been done by archaeologists kind of got to me. So, you know, after that initial after the initial, well, gosh, we didn’t find anything. I got a copy of the book here. And, you know, one of the originals and it just became obsessed with it. Everything from mirrors to magnifying glasses, at lunch, you know, an hour a day I go with it. And, you know, for years and years, so did not to not attempt to find anything by putting anything in the ground, but rather chose to, to try to figure out where it was by using the illustrations and the verses. And that it’s maddening. It’s sometimes you had to put it down. Just let it go for a while. I have three kids and a wife. I have other applications. I have a job here and other responsibilities. So it will drive you crazy. And you have to kind of take a step back and clear your head and then go back. Which leads you to this and this eBay, guys. eBay is just a it’s a treasure trove of information. That’s where I am right now. It’s still still looking. But those ladies got me into it. And I cursed them every I’m just kidding. It’s, it’s a lot of good. I appreciate it led to a lot of great friendships.

George Ward
So your your fountain of youth is one of the only parks is open ish to hunters, you’re fairly welcoming to people to bring in their solutions to even let them dig in your park. What’s the parks philosophy behind that? Why? Why? Oh,

John Fraser
well, let me tell you. The park is owned by me, my two sisters and my brother. We were all things by decree and the board and board meetings. I was intrigued with it. And the folks that I was meeting that was doing things that were doing things the right way, writing the letters making the phone calls. Initially, it worked out really, really well. It was very manageable. Because from 2004 When Kim and Nadine came by until 2010, I think I had three people and six years contact me about this. So yeah, it was pretty easy. And most folks were pretty nice about the whole thing. And then around 2010 or 11 folks started coming, I would guess I can just say when the park was closed, I don’t really know how they got in. That’s water will ever but they were here illegally. And we would come in and find broken sprinkler pipes and all kinds of damage. And that’s when things started to get a little bit more difficult. And then Byron and price. Josh gates when we did the first the first expedition unknown, it was it really got crazy. And what we tried to do is we’re at the point now where we asked folks to submit in writing, if you submit in writing, they go on to on stack, essentially, we have probably about 10 right now that are unread. We have five or six and in the state of yes, we’re going to allow it and then we have others that it’s really strange because if folks make mistakes about things that are that they’re basing their theories on landmarks that weren’t here back then I’ll actually call them on the telephone and and Try to very quickly explain what’s wrong with the theory that they have. And that’s a very easy thing to do. But as long as we can can kind of control that to where the digs are, and the archaeologists, Dr. Dagon or dark elf city of St. Augustine says that this area is cleared for that sort of thing, then I’m more than happy to help anyone in any way realize their dreams. We’re, I think everybody here is hunting for some kind of treasure doesn’t have to be this in the ground or gold or silver, it can be a great family life, it can be something intangible. But I think everybody has had the fever up for something at some point in time. I’m not saying it’s good. That sounds bad. I’m just saying, but I know that everybody’s wanting something. And if I can facilitate someone else’s dream, for however long it is, then I’ve always looked at it as is, you know, is a good thing as a good thing. And that’s why that’s why I continue to do this. And sometimes it gets a little maddening. But, but I still do it. You know, I still do as much as I can. And there are certain times the year it’s better than others. You know, the fall is great spring in the summer bad because we have so many people that are here, and you definitely don’t want to have be digging and have a train go by and go, Hey, what do you like what you’re doing it for? And he had to explain it in a stretcher.

George Ward
Let me show you. It’s really great. It’s these that every red train torn by treasure. counts, but anyway, hope that it does. It does. Um, so let’s see. You talked about the damages. And we’ve seen a lot of damages to a lot of different parts. What’s some of the more troubling things that you’ve seen in this part?

John Fraser
Well, overwhelmingly, the number one is sprinkler pipes. And and it’s why I told you, I was gonna have a sprinkler pipe here, because we had to, we had one that had three holes, three separate holes in the same pipe. And they were perfect. I don’t know if they were using drill or what but and my manager I got, well, it was kind of upset about it. And he brought up to me and the idea that we should probably shut this down. And I said, No, these are the bad guys that are doing it. But sprinkler pipes number one, number two is the gate the iron gates are damaged. I can’t imagine someone wanting to climb the iron gate instead of a instead of a fence or coming in, you’re like why this because the iron gates got the spikes on it. And if you slip, it’s gonna really hurt. But the wall is sharp with the oyster shell. So you know, I guess you have to kind of weigh the risks on that. But, but that’s a trash it’s left behind. People have left me little little bits and pieces of things because the popular place to jump the fence and dig is actually along the fence. Because if you stay low, no one’s gonna see you. And so they come in they check out all the the magnolias because they’re big trees and the oaks that are on the inside the round the restroom, that’s probably the number one place that gets gets looked at and unfortunately vandalized and trashed. And there’s a little alcove and one of the trees. And I had this one thought about 10 years ago, I said, you know, if they to bury the cask, in oak tree or or a magnolia in the ground, there’s a chance it could have scarred it. And so, you know, years later, that maybe would be it would have grown around it. So I found it found this Monthsary. And this is it. This has got to be it. So I look in there and I start cleaning it out. And somebody had put a beer bottle right in the tree, and was sitting right in the elbow of the tree by looking at the stomach. Yeah, this was their way of saying, hey, it’s here.

George Ward
Wow. So anyway, I’ll tell you, I tell you. So anyway, all right. So we talked about that does, I guess we should transition to some questions, because there are a lot more people here than I thought we’re gonna be here. And I’m assuming you guys are gonna have a lot of questions. Do you have any questions for Brian or for? For John? Anybody? Right here? I have a question. It was the guestbook. Was it all available in 81?

John Fraser
Is that the gentleman’s asking was was the guest book available in 1980 81? And the answer that is probably not. And the reason as I mentioned before it went so far as the park structure was concerned is that the park was being run by banks, accountants and other non business folks. And that probably would have been one of the things that would have gone by the wayside. Now my father, reinstituted it sometime in the mid 80s. But I really I gotta be honest, we I don’t think that that it’s that it was here at all. I really, really don’t. Virtually all archival, anything that was archival virtually stopped in 1965 when the banks took over, and we just didn’t and it was the southeast bank. But you know, what, but they went bankrupt, so I guess they didn’t run themselves very well, either. So anyway, anyway, but I keep doing my last one. Janna fought on that one. But it wasn’t here.

Brian Zinn
It wasn’t here. But even if it was, there’s just no way that Byron price would have written his name and the guests. Because he, he used to go to cocktail parties. And when people would ask him if you’ve been here, if you’ve been there, he would be careful never to say where he’s been alias. John? Yeah.

George Ward
I don’t even that’s a good question. I don’t think Byron even had a pen name to do. Everything. Everything that he published or everything that he wrote was under Bayern practice. Yeah. So yes,

Guest
you answer one question about the sundial. Near past rainfall, I thought it was such a sundial. So we’re gonna put the marketing ears passage. Was there any kind of rain gauge or anything like that?

John Fraser
Or right now? No, no rain gauge at the time? No, it would have been too. We’d probably experimented with it. Back in the 50s, I’d say we would have been my dad and my grandfather. And it’s sometime maybe in the late 80s, early 90s. But it would have it would have been short. So short lived, that it was here today and gone tomorrow, you know, just

Brian Zinn
there used to be a compass, a sundial, rather, and the sundial said, grow old with me, the best is yet to be. And some people, including myself think that that refers to years past. And right near it was a fountain with that used to be two kids with an umbrella. And the fountain looks like rain falling on the umbrella. So that could be years past rainfall. George had the idea because George used to live here that years past is the stickers that they would put on the telephone poles.

George Ward
Yeah. Little metal inspection tags. Yes. And

Brian Zinn
it that could be the years passing, that they passed inspection,

George Ward
the inspection tags, what they were where they looked like little footballs, right. And they would have the year that a telephone pole was inspected, and then it would have whether or not a pastor failed. And you would never see the ones that fail because they would replace the pole. But they were little football shaped tags that they nail into the phone booth. And it just said to let the year that it was inspected and then pass and they would be they recover the telephone poles because they would never remove them. Yeah. So it’s literally it would be literally years past.

John Fraser
I do want to say one thing about the fountain that you’re talking about. And if we’re gonna have to tell you that the original fountain with a boy and girl with the Umbrella was right, pretty much where you’re sitting. It literally was right underneath you. This was this was added in the year 2013. And the reason that we did this, of course is to have a have a place to found that youth 500 celebration, and it was dug up. There’s nothing that was underneath it. But you know, the general area was dug up and then it was filled to raise it up. But it was here. It was here a lot for a long time. And then at some point in time again, I don’t know if it’s the 80s or the 70s. The fountain was taken from here down to the oldest wooden schoolhouse and was placed in front of the oldest wooden schoolhouse.

George Ward
It’s still out there. Or it was one round but it’s what’s left of it

John Fraser
man. I’m telling you, you know folks go up there with a baseball bat. I don’t know what they think they’re feeling threatened and they just beat the hell out of it and when things fly off of it and not so good, but anyway, it’s it’s it was a great, real iconic statue. You’re right. Did you sell your light passes to the US in 91? No, we started

Brian Zinn
the fountain that is we just walked by with the sundial where it once did it kind of trickle down like it does now where there’s multiple holes and it kind of drops like rainfall.

John Fraser
Well, I’ll tell you something, when you walked out of the globe, you would smell you get this initial incredible sulfur smell and you would hear what sounded like rain it and it was the spot. It was the spot and the water came out through the top and it trickled down on this IV like plant I don’t know I really don’t know what it was because frankly I was 18 years old and didn’t care but but it made a hell of a lot of rain water marine sound and you can stand there and you close your eyes and and really did sound like rain. And it was right there. It was literally right there between the sundial and the fountain behind which again was was larger and there was dirt around the outside of it vines grew up and that’s where they got their supplements to grow and be pushy, you know, cause people like me to have to go cut them from time

Bradley Hodges
that’s it for the podcast audience that isn’t here. Kids didn’t hear the question before that it was whether or not to annual passes results. Oh the Pardo and John verified? No, they were not.

Brian Zinn
So we should repeat the question. Yeah. Okay.

Guest
I have a question for you when you found yours, your your treasure. Yeah. How long from when you started really getting into it to when you found it? How long was that span of time and then also How How, how hard was it? Or how easy was it African sounded really like, oh my god, like, like we all probably think Boston stuff and stuff like that how easy it seems after the fact, every single one of them can interview

Brian Zinn
right? Well, the question was, how long have had I’d been working on before I found the treasure in Cleveland. I bought the book in 1982, when it first came out in Philadelphia, and I didn’t find the treasure until 2004. So So and once I, once we were there, my friend Andy came with me. And, and Andy had only been hadn’t been working on it at all. But I had shown him all the clues and everything. And I convinced him to come with me. And we went to Cleveland, and everything fell into place when we got there, oh, this is it. These are the seven steps up, you can hop, you know, everything that was in the verse and in the picture, it all matched. And it wasn’t easy, though, to find it. And it took in the two because one of the instructions in the Cleveland verse is 10 stones from right to left. And so standing at the back of the wall, looking at the wall, if you go right to left, that’s where we dug, and I was digging for five hours and couldn’t find it. And I just was exhausted, I sat down and I just said to Andy, it’s not here. And and the picks up a probe walks to the other side of the hole of the planter. And in five seconds, he hits Plexiglas. And we still don’t know why it said right to left, maybe if you’re on the other side of the wall. But sometimes it’s, you need a little bit of luck to find the treasure or a new set of eyes. Yes, a new set of eyes. Right?

George Ward
How long between how long of a period of time, when did you first figure out it was in Cleveland? Like, how long was it before when you figured out was in Cleveland until you

Brian Zinn
got it was in 2004? Thanks to the internet, you know, you could start doing searching and stuff like that. And one of the Vert one of the lines of the verse for Cleveland was Socrates Pindar appellees, than three names. And I had Googled those names, I had googled them for for many, many months, and found nothing. And then one day, someone else on the bulletin board site that we were on, actually found something a new website had gone up by the Cleveland memory organization, where they just decided to type in on their website, all the names that were on the Cleveland wall. And so that’s how Socrates Pindar appellees came up. And you just click on that, and you click on a picture, and there is the image right there. The be image that I had looked at for 22 years that I had burned in my mind, was suddenly there on my computer. And that’s when I ran to Andy, and said, You’re coming with

Bradley Hodges
me? Can you can you talk about the process from that point that when you reached out to the parks, and you told them what you found, and getting the permission and going up there? You talked about that?

Brian Zinn
Oh, yeah, sure. Well, I yeah, I, we had to get permission to dig. Because, you know, I’m not one of those people that jumped fences or anything like that without permission. So I contacted it took a while to figure out who was in charge of the garden. And it was, I believe, the Hellenic Preservation Society. And so we contacted them, I had to send them the pictures, I had to convince them about this whole thing. And they loved the idea. And they said, Sure, come on down. And so Andy, and I went to Cleveland, and they actually make bread shovels with them, and they helped us and

George Ward
it was just great. And the video we posted yesterday, they looked like they were actually excited about it. Yes.

Brian Zinn
Yeah. So it’s great. And after the after we found the treasure I made a donation to the Hellenic Preservation Society for all their help.

Guest
Like what when you read this verse, compared to other verses, we don’t have anywhere in their words, you know, take 10 steps here, hop over here, do this do that, which it seems like other ones do. Right, though, in my mind, I’m telling myself maybe this was his first one. This first chapter is first so maybe they changed over the you know, once we went through 12 of them, but I just didn’t know what you think when you read it compared to the others.

Brian Zinn
Okay. Well, the question was As is, what do I think of this verse meaning St. Augustine as compared to the others because it doesn’t have steps or, or anything like that. And as John was saying before, the word cask comes from this from the fountain of youth. And Cask is actually the name of a helmet. The Spanish helmet is called a cast. But the way that it was written on the sign here, it makes it sound like it’s a container. And I think that’s where Byron Preiss actually misconstrued what a cask was. And he used that. And I do think this was probably the first one he did. And and I think Cleveland, ironically, was the last one, because he needed John Powell in cars help for suggestions as to where to dig. So I think they were just trying to figure out, because how they, this whole thing is about immigration, and different areas of Europe and the world would come to our the different towns. And this was the Spanish, supposedly the Spanish people came here to to the St. Augustine. And that makes sense, because of Ponce de Leon. And so the secret has the Spanish theme, with that picture. And the Greek theme is the one that goes to Cleveland, and that was probably the toughest one because Greeks really didn’t settle in Cleveland. So they had to figure out there was like the last thing, and they had to try and figure out what could we use? That’s Greek, in Cleveland. And so that’s why they picked the Greek cultural gardens, in my opinion.

Guest
See, every I mean, I’m sorry, I don’t know. But God, what do you like you had to go through different parts of town. To get to where you were, you were?

Brian Zinn
What do you mean different parts of?

Guest
Well, like here, it could be could start at Anastasia quarry. And that could lead us to here and then it could lead us to the zero mile marker at the Visitor Center knew

George Ward
the entirety of the Cleveland verse happened within 100 feet of the end three of It started about 100 feet from the end, right?

Brian Zinn
Yes, yeah. Well, some people think it’s, everybody interprets it differently. You know, a lot of people think beneath two countries refers to a tunnel that is farther away, like a mile away, that’s on the same road. Right? Right. And so some people have the prescribe to the theory that he takes you on a tour of the town, and then comes to the dig site. Other people, you know, who knows, but I can tell you out of the three treasures that were found, none of us went on a tour, we just, we just basically came to the thing, because we saw everything fell into place. So it could be that he’s taking you on a tour, but you don’t need that, in my opinion.

Bradley Hodges
I fall into the category and I haven’t found one, obviously. So this is just my thoughts. I fall into the category that Cleveland, Boston, that their spot. Puzzles are not travel puzzles. So everything is within that one spot. The painting the image gets you to the city, you have, you know, the Water Tower in Chicago, you have the Terminal Tower in Cleveland. So those are just confirmed to let us know, okay, this is the town that it’s in. But when you go into the verse, the verse tells you seek the columns for your search. Okay, well, that’s our image matcher, right, we have the columns, matching in the image, and then it tells you just specific instructions. Once you find that spot, this is what you need to do. And it was really fun to watch that. We do have an online question for John. And I’m not familiar with this. But Aryan, sorry, if I said your name incorrectly, Aaron Williams asked, What is the significance of the alligator skulls on the tree basis? What do they mean? How long have they been there? And is there a history with their distinct placements within the park as a whole?

John Fraser
Well, that’s a good question. They are a very recent recent occurrence. We started about seven years ago with a with one Native American, who was a Cree Indian. And he came in, he did a great job. He passed away you had one Chicky Ha, that was a we got so many letters. And we’re and he had so many condolences, that we decided to do it again. And so we invited members of the Cherokee nations to come in and they expanded and as they expanded, we expanded. And we now have another gentleman who works very closely with a number of Native American tribes, including the Seminole, probably the closest one to us, and elements of the of the Cherokees, and they do pretty much what they want to do there and it’s been within you know, we we don’t try to micromanage is what it is that they do they have their own presentations, we just ask that they that they stay as close to what we do know about the Temecula. And that’s kind of what they do. So when you ask question about the schools, I can tell you that they were not there seven years ago, they were definitely were not there in 1981. There insofar sort of significance is concerned. I honestly have absolutely no idea. I know the eight alligators. So you had a lot of alligator bones actually get through it. And and that’s, that could be a part of it. It could be part of their of a religious ritual. I really don’t know. I don’t know. And I do not know why they’re there, except that it’s part of what they would have gained the game that they would have caught. And

Guest
thank you. Of course, for growing the crops that were malnourished. In a in the UK? Did you ever check in pieces for the rest of the cast?

Brian Zinn
The question was, is there metal in any part of the cask? Because my key had what looks like an Allen wrench in it. And no, there’s no metal in any part of the cast, except there’s a mermaid I believe on top of the cask, and she has like two little metal antennas sticking out. So no, I was just looking at the the hundreds of little pieces that I have. So there’s nothing sticking out that’s metal,

George Ward
but the metal that is in the cast there. It’s very, very small. It’s yeah, it’s.

Brian Zinn
And the weird thing is, the weird thing is that my, the lid of my cask doesn’t have anything in it other than its ceramic. But the one in Boston that was found apparently has burlap in it supporting it, if you’ve seen a picture of that one. So that’s very strange that his was made with burlap and the Cleveland one wasn’t, obviously, to know, we’ll expand

Bradley Hodges
on that. To expand on that. So if you look in the front cover, in the thank yous of your book, you’ll see some a thank you to a specific name for the owner, the company that made the rep because of the cast. So the original cast was made by artist Joella. And then they hired a company to make replicas of that. And we did a little research on that company. And we found that that’s exactly what they did to reinforce them, they put burlap in other structures that they made. For instance, they did figures for an Easter egg. And we found an article where they wrote three fourths and four burlap so that the kids can climb all over it, they won’t break. So we know that that was a known technique. What we don’t know is why is one different than the other. So that’s still a question to be determined.

George Ward
I asked a couple of artists and what they came up with was the casks are really strange. They were they were poured, the ceramic was poured on the strange way, they were fired in a strange way. And they were carved in a strange way. And those three strange ways cause them to have tiny air bubbles in the surface. And then on the inside, like the where the cask is poured, it had air bubbles, if you fire something like that, with air bubbles in it, it’s going to crack. So it’s likely what happened was they made some without any metal in them, and then made a couple of them. And then one cracked and they were like, Oh, this doesn’t work. So we need to reinforce it with something so they threw some metal in it. And they made a couple more until one cracked and they realized it didn’t work. So they tried maybe Birla it seems because there’s there’s not just 12 of these made. We know there’s just about everybody that worked on the book has won. Byron had to I think one or two anyway, so there’s a lot of these casks right and there would be a long process between making number one and making number 20 or whatever. So that’s likely why there are variances they just they found problems along the production line and tried to fix them in the next set. That Rob Rob’s This

Bradley Hodges
is still one piece yeah

George Ward
Rob says the broken we know he has metal in his in the internet. Right about it right? Yes. Yes. John has

Guest
questions for you the canoe

John Fraser
the canoe,

Guest
the U turn about

John Fraser
the one way in the back. That’s new right? Yeah. Yes, brand new that that was built by the St. Augustine maritime foundation with a big chalupa over there actually there were there were two that were that had been carved out. One was Andy, the Native American burial burial ground the one that I was standing up front of that had been blown down, you know, essentially been damaged by Hurricane Irma. The other dugout, Cypress canoe was on the grounds on the other side of the rebuilt mission. So on the other side of the mission on on the pathway, there was one there for 2025 years.

Guest
Or no, and

John Fraser
the reason the reason those two areas haven’t been dug is the one was, was in the burial ground. And that’s just something that’s just completely off limits because azimuth dug in and the except by archaeologists, and then the other one would have been pretty much right where the original mission church, the first mission church is, has not been archaeologically excavated. It’s just really hard for me to imagine, I think that the canoe could be part of it, of a friend of mine that believes that a boat of some kind is part of the salt. Yeah, that’s so funny you say that? Because that’s Yeah. Yeah. Basically to alter it. That’s it. But But as to whether or not Yeah, well, he anyway, he looked at it, that was the first thing that popped into his there was mine. And that’s where the that’s where the canoes were there on the, in a really very, very sensitive archaeological area. And I haven’t looked without question, because because the burial grounds were open at the time, and you can literally walk in and you can see 100 Fully uncovered Native American burials right there. And then, and then on the back wall, you can see the black and white photographs of how the digs would have looked in 1960. I’m sorry. 1934 when it was begun, so yeah, that’s Yeah, I know. No, no one’s actually done it over there.

Brian Zinn
Mr. For you, Brian. Your cast had one of the 12 creatures painted on. Yes, you personally been able to make any connection to a fairy in the book to your aid did? Well, character. Okay, the question was, if there’s a connection with the character that’s painted on the cask. My character is a centaur. So that’s the Cleveland picture is the Centaur Standing on the arch. And the Chicago one is a troll, I believe, which I guess is the what that guy’s faces is I think that’s the face of a troll. And for the Boston one, we figured out I think that it’s possibly a leprechaun or something like that. And, you know, that’s sort of like the well, I don’t know, but I don’t know. It’s, we can’t really tell what’s on the cask in Boston. So it’s to what you’re saying is you’re thinking with the two founders, Chicago, Cleveland, they more reference to photo rather than any of the fairy folklore for the rest of the book. So well, it’s hard to tell because centaurs are Greek. So it could be that Greek it’s both in my case, the Cleveland case

Bradley Hodges
speaking to what can remember they proposed the the Boston was maybe possibly in Japan, and that would tie with Italian.

Brian Zinn
Oh, okay. Yes, that’s that’s good. So I actually have the cats with me. We’re gonna put it out here and you guys can come look at it when we’re done. Just please. So yeah, just

Bradley Hodges
it’s already broken enough. Yes.

George Ward
Sir. Any other questions? Yes. Great, alright.

Guest
That just go up to the picket fence or you go outside.

George Ward
So the question was about ground penetrating radar. Expedition unknown did basically that entire area by the planetarium and then when I came out with my friend who has a GPR we did the entire the entirety of the maintenance entrance and then we did the vast majority of the parking lot area and we also did along the along the rocks up along the wall around Yes, yes, we did. We did all of that. Yes. It was a really cool. I know we have some other questions. What do you Oh, oh, well, I

Brian Zinn
already put it in a setting. I put it in a setting back in 2004. You could see it when you come up to look at it. It’s like a fairy Flying Fairy holding the gemstone.

John Fraser
It’s a beautiful job.

Brian Zinn
And the gemstone the gemstone I got was a sad Fire, but I was supposed to get the actual Marine. So ironically, the treasure I’m most that I’m interested in now is St. Augustine, which is the Sapphire. So if I find it, I’ll get the aquamarine.

Guest
Well, I know there’s there’s a part of the book that says once you find them can’t find another

Did you ever had anyone do any surveys on the property?

When you say tree survey, what are we talking about? A particular verse about tall trees, and I was trying to see if there was justification for mold trees. If there was a survey done.

John Fraser
No, there has been no, the question was, was a tree survey done? And the answer is no, there there isn’t. We pretty much just eyeball just eyeball what’s there. And unfortunately, as I mentioned, we have had a number of storms. The ones that I can remember after having moved back here in 1986, from going to college with big ones in 1990. Floyd, we had a couple in the mid 2000s We had the Hurricane Frances was terrible I think it was Oh 405 or three hurricanes that that year but the real the one that really just wiped out I think some of the real landmark the mark trees as Matthew and Irma which was two and three years ago. Were Yeah, but yeah, they were they were some old growth big big big big trees. The real tall ones still are still around the entire of Magnolia Avenue. The pine tree which is out in front of the restrooms that was the tallest tree van is the tallest tree now. And depth no no not nothing. No no actual survey was ever

George Ward
done. But maintenance guys when When trees come up here you guys look for the cast, right?

John Fraser
Once we found out about it, you know what is a treasure there. We do look at it, we lost probably one of the two or three tallest oak trees or Hurricane Matthew was right there in the corner where you go in the maintenance entrance. It’s between the planetarium and the globe and oil tastes I mean kicked up a big big root big roots system and took probably half a day looking through that just knocking the dirt off and then of course the wall that it knocked out the cocaine wall because we thought that perhaps he would have put it next to a manmade structure to avoid you know, messing up flower garden so that sort of thing like he says in the book, but nothing there. Nothing there. Yeah, yes ma’am. What can you store it or? The question was where was the wind rose back in 81. And to my knowledge, first of all, I do know that the wind rose that is in the Planetarium and the walkway that get to takes you into the auditorium that was definitely there and it was definitely in the exact same place as it was in 1981. There were compass roses in several different places. Whether they would call them when Rose I don’t know. But we had one on top of the restrooms up near Magnolia Avenue. We had another one out here at around the obelisk it was the tried to make a compass rose out of the obelisk although the the stones were quite choppy. I had heard that been referred to as compass rose. I didn’t get it and like a lion had a big, you know, I don’t get it. But But anyway, that that one the planetarium it really fits very closely with some of the other verses. So that’s probably what he was referring to. There used to be some sort of a compass. Yeah, it was incorporated around the obelisk. Yeah, it’s not there. No, no, the all the stones were picked up again. And the litigious society we live in, we have to be met to try to anticipate better how people are gonna fall and injure themselves. And there were they were floating slabs that were there. And some of them were up a little bit higher than the other and the decision was made to pop out the stone slabs. And then to pour tatty concrete around it to where it would be smooth. And that’s that’s kind of what’s there right

Bradley Hodges
now. We have another question from online. They’re asking Has anyone ever probed the exhibit where the whale is? Well,

George Ward
I think they’re asking about the

John Fraser
found. Yeah, no, no, no. And as often that that area, there would have been one of the few areas of the park that would have had security. And I’m talking about electronic security going all the way back to the 70s. In the 80s. I’m not sure if we brought the dogs back, because we had dogs all the way out in the 50s and the 60s for security. So we would have had electronic security, we would had dogs, the buildings would have been locked immediately between five and 530. Same thing with planetarium, same thing with a globe, all three of those buildings, and that the ticket office would have had the secure Already on it. So I would have to say that it for I can’t imagine him going into one of those buildings. But no, no, it has not been. Yeah, I

George Ward
mean, like the spring house. I mean, some people may think the fountain of youth is kitschy or whatever. But that’s legit. One of the oldest pieces of history we have in America, confirmed pieces of history is that cross? I can’t imagine Byron with his love of history wanting damage anything around it.

John Fraser
I can’t, I can’t either. I can’t. I can’t imagine that because that cross, we know for sure has been was a newspaper 1909 St. Augustine record. We know that. It was referenced by Mr. Williams, who had the pork from from 1868 until 1901. referenced by whom? And then an affidavit was attested to by the grandson of Mr. Arno, the claim that the family knew of its existence in the 1700s. So you are talking about rural rural long time for that. And the building was pretty. Like I said, that was the thing that would have been protected along with the ticket office.

Bradley Hodges
So I have a question. Sure. So obviously, this sounds very personal to you. And my favorite part of this entire experience are the experiences that I’ve had with friends and family members since I started the hunt. Can you tell me about just your personal favorite experience beaded digger? Anything that you’ve had since you started?

George Ward
She’s my favorite. That’s gonna be like I met George. And that was awesome.

John Fraser
You and I had a really interesting first first meet. Yeah, that was not a good subject.

George Ward
So just say John loves this font, don’t take a GPR out in the middle of the parking lot without asking him first. Just wandering around with it.

John Fraser
Yeah, that’s a good, I have to tell you, I get proposals. And I think a lot of proposals, and what I really enjoy the most is the folks that take the most time and and they very, very clearly spell out why they believe what they do. And even if I don’t agree with them, again, I try to make a try to make it happen. And the coolest one, there was a fella down in Central Florida, that wrote me this long drawn out plan. He sent it overnight. It was when I opened up the overnight envelope. And inside of it, there was the the letter had a hedge sealing wax, and he’d use a seal ring. And that’s why I said, awesome. This is incredible. I opened it up, I looked at it, I read his proposal, I call them on the phone right then in there. And I said do you gotta get you have to get a shot for this one. I like a really, where do you where do you want to go? And he told me where it was. And I said, Okay, that’s fine. I said, that’s a little close to my comfort zone. So I asked the archaeologist to come out to checked out the area. And she goes now this is all Phil, you know, a lot of Phil’s you can imagine being so close to the water. And and we did we dug it up. He was there a couple of friends. He was in his 20s. And he had the time of his life. And I haven’t heard from him since. But it was it was it was great. I mean, that was that was that was kind of fun. But I will I will just tell you that on an On a personal note, as opposed to, you know, something that involves someone else. You know, the one thing that’s puzzle does is it kind of sucks you in like any any kind of puzzle, because you don’t really know where everything comes from. You have the group of people that believe that it’s really simple. It’s right there in front of you. And if you just look at it long enough. And you you know, you do this long enough, and you take the mirrors out and all that it’s gonna come to you. And I don’t disagree with that at all. And maybe it does happen. But there’s twists and turns like the number four and the number two that you see in this puzzle. And you go, what’s that? Well, you know, the cool thing about Google is you can sit there and you can put anything you want in there. And then they come up with all kinds of crazy things because they don’t know what you’re looking for Google the number 42 Sometimes, and the very first thing I did was was it’s the answer to every question in the universe. And I find and I find out Douglas Adams Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, the books written in 1979, published 1980. And I go, Oh, me, this guy was in graduate from Stanford degree in communications. This is a really popular book. I really don’t get it. But it’s I really don’t get it. But you’re looking here I underlined all the words and all the phrases that they use in this park that is in this part in his in his puzzle, and they’re in this book, and it just happens to be 42 and I it took me there, and other scars and other references I’ve seen. It led me to get books on constellations. You notice in the puzzle, you can actually look at it you see red dots, the red dots in the on the illustration. They’re white dots. And I’ve sat there and I’ve tried to put them out and connect the dots and look at our planetarium show because I remember what the planetarium show was like. They’re trying to compare them to the constellations and it really is it gives you a It’s a personal journey that you have mind takes me in a different direction, Brian takes them a different direction. You all have different ideas and different theories and that sort of thing. That’s the great thing about these puzzles is that they really do take you in in whatever direction your mind goes. Because I gotta tell you until I read this book, I probably had read a book in two years, three years, I guess I, you know, I mean, a lot. I read a lot of magazines read a lot of newspapers, but I didn’t read the book, cover to cover, especially fiction. I just don’t, I don’t have time. But I read about 10 books in the last three, four years. And it’s all because of this guy, you know. So thank you, Byron, Byron, and, you know, but it’s a lot, but you meet a lot of people. And it’s really, it’s really gratifying to hear, you know, especially again, the ones that play by the rules, and the ones that had the really serious theories and families that come in some groups, even here today. They’ve been families that have come in that have dug always worried about the kids and all that, but good parents, and it’s kind of neat to see them all doing something together. I think he would have liked that.

Brian Zinn
Yeah, I think John is probably the best of all the remaining guardians of all the remaining treasures, because he’s really into it. And, you know, he led me dig when I came here. He let Kim and Nadine dig before me. And I actually had to come. I, when I came back, he let me dig a second time. But I needed a GPR. And a TV show was what he was really into it. And it’s great that he lets families and friends come here, because that’s what the that’s what this hunt is about. You know, it would be a shame if they were all found, wouldn’t it? Because then, you know, you’d move on. Right? So I, I hope that they’re not all found. I mean, I hope that everybody in this room finds one but at the same time, I hope that they’re not all found.

George Ward
Brian’s like I hope I’m the first one to find.

Guest
Brian with a Catacomb. Look stack manila folders that just your notes for the sake of purchasing obscene gassers at multiple?

Brian Zinn
Oh, the question was, is the folder I’ve been carrying around? What what was in that? Yeah, it’s about one or two inches thick of just my St. Augustine research. So

John Fraser
that’s more than what I have.

Guest
So how’d you come into the family?

John Fraser
Originally? Well, my grandfather vacation. The question was, how did the property come into my family originally, and my grandfather was born in Flowery Branch, Georgia, was living in Albany, Georgia, with my grandma. And he used to work between here and there was a timber cruiser, they just go and they measure the amount of board feet of pine or whatever they can cherry. And it just travels took them to St. Augustine. And he loved that here. He was educated at Emory University. And he saw the value of history. He loved history. And he didn’t think that St. Augustine was doing enough with what it was that they had. And so when the lady who owned it, the world’s had McConnell passed away in a car crash, he immediately came in and said, I have to have it. So he purchased it from the husband, who didn’t like the bugs and didn’t like the heat. And then like the people and just said, I don’t just let me out. So he sold my grandfather for I think, a song at the time, but it was 1927. And then, you know, he continued to run it until he had a stroke and 1960. And then my father took over. And then the banks, of course, as I was telling you before had had taken over. But the real test on Monday, my grandfather, I know you’re just not what you’re asking. But I just want to tell you that in 1930, there was something called the depression. And the idea idea that my grandfather kept this place through 10 years of just very, very hard economic conditions, and was able to save it and to be able to thrive after the war. 19 1940s Keep it through the 50s and all that shenanigans with the banks and it’s just really, it’s really it’s cool. Yeah, that is great. I appreciate you asking. Okay,

Guest
so we’ve talked a lot about the birth itself. What floozies being an actress peeking into so that

Brian Zinn
the question was what clues are in the painting? And this is just our opinion

George Ward
of Florida to answer this question all the time, you guys.

Brian Zinn
Okay, well, I’ll move it. Well, thanks to someone named Fox on the queue for T website. We figured out that latitudes and longitudes are in the painting. So you see, this isn’t going to be on camera, but in my opinion, this right here, and this is the number 30 upside down. And there’s also an A to see the need to spend 32 Is the latitude and longitude of St. Augustine. There are other things to play possibly looks like the pathway that’s out by the monument. A billion people find a million different things that are hidden in this. I see a candidate who’s a candidate goes this way. And this is the wheel of the cannon. I think there’s also a post right here. And there’s no it looks just like the post that’s in the form that I dug in. Let’s see, we’ve got this down here is possibly an overhead view of the island, but I don’t know what it’s for. And Stasia Island, okay, if you look at a map, you will see that this matches that. There’s so many things. This is this is a Spanish element. And that’s the cask, right. And this is Ponce de Leon possibly, is best. If you look very closely, it looks just like the colors on that’s in the the actual Fountain of Youth spring

John Fraser
house. Also the colors of the Puerto Rican flag, the green and the gold.

Brian Zinn
Every, every painting has a clock or a number associated with it. There’s no clock in this. But there are nine flowers. And they are asters. And Astrid is the flower for September, which is the ninth month, and there are nine flowers. So I can think of other things there is people think this is the monument that’s out there, there’s an overhead view of the monument, and then possibly, it’s covering up the castle. That’s the Castillo de San Marcos. So and you know, there are lots of there could be lots of other things in here. This could be the Globe Theater last year, there’s something called I think it’s called para Dahlia pareidolia, which is the tendency for humans to just see anything and just see patterns. And that’s from our hunter gatherer days, allows us to survive. But we still have that today.

George Ward
Well, John, you’ve been here since you were a child. What do you see in the painting? Do you see anything that that we don’t you know that you haven’t heard anyone talk about what what jumps out to you?

John Fraser
Well, the two in the four or the four and the two jumped out to me, I do see what Brian sees with regard to the latitude and the longitude. I also see over here, the just a couple of small things. This particular area here to take a really good, close look at the cheap, cheaper removal, cheap soiling it’s similar. It looks an awful lot like little toy awful, like, like the Chiefs face can’t explain these stones at all here, there. There’s an interesting thing here, I don’t really understand it. This could be a bird. I’m not real sure what this is. But it appears that there’s a key hanging from the top of whatever this is. And you can actually see the tip on the end of the day. This year, the mosque an awful lot of the of the burials of the burial grounds caught out with the concrete came around the burial there no loads on the inside. So it’s it’s hard to say but I look at that. I look at this as a big team. And when we do one large one that we have all over the grounds. And that’s what I see. And we’re trying to cast. If you look closely, you can see what would be a reflection of the stuff because we have a stone here and we also have a stone. I don’t know what, to what extent that it looks like we’re supposed to look at it this way, and the way that he’s looking and so then when he looked at the springhouse this right here, right down to the LM Assuming that the head looking down, if this is the exact same way the statute listed the dialogue. I’ve had some interesting theories on the brown and the blue is representative islands. Again, very interesting, very interesting thing down here. This is the stone I was telling you about. What I see here is, if you were to go on the water side of the Fort St. John replies, which is right out there, and you stood off to the side where you’re looking at a stone this way, and to get down, you will actually see or would have an A one, he would have seen this palm tree. And this, this is the only pond true in that cluster of three trees that has been blown down by hurricane. So it got blown down by a hurricane and that trees out there, but it’s between the other two. But you would have seen that in a start off away, there would be no reflection. However, for border you’d have a reflection stone, because the water at high tide used to come home with up Tuesday. So I see, I see all that there’s nothing just like you guys, I see David’s in there. Because there have been times that I thought that the found this little section here is that hourglass found out there in front of the planetarium. Maybe this is an interesting view of the picket fence where you didn’t get to get a picture on an annual wasn’t the larger picture.

Brian Zinn
We left out one of the most important parts is the face on the mountain. There is actually an overhead view of the park. The right hand side of the face is actually st is actually the Fountain of Youth Park. If you look at a map

George Ward
map that used to have it’s almost perfect.

John Fraser
Use I guess in the 64

George Ward
the one that we got a picture was 97.

Brian Zinn
Yeah, I think so. So the So John, Jude Palancar is a great artist. He made it look like somebody’s face looking up to the sky, but it’s actually an overhead view of the park

John Fraser
it’s a little bit different today because of the bulkhead. Yeah. Okay. It was it was different.

Guest
Do you think every painting janazah has a Locate? You know how like Boston have the home plate, right? And then Chicago happened through post events, right?

John Fraser
I gotta tell you, it’s, I’m glad you asked that question. But I’m kind of a one trick pony when it comes to this thing. This is the guy and this is the guy got to talk about that. This right here. I see things in this that maybe you all wouldn’t see. I mean, I really do. And I can twist it. And I can see Magnolia flowers, I can see Magnolia nut I’ve used you know, I grew up with where the White Album turned the album backwards on your photographic. Cuddly guy probably has happened to us in there. And it’s probably something else, you just have to get rid of the mirror just right, to kind of create exactly what you’re looking at. There’s a little message there. I found one. And it’s the

Guest
reason why I asked you is because this is this is your second home if you see things that these guys are all of us don’t see.

John Fraser
Well, the interesting thing to me is that I see a lot of these views, things that we have in the park. And when when folks come in and they say absolutely positively. It’s definitely not here in the park. I look at it and I go I don’t know how we’re going to get into that system. That’s where it represents. This illustration represents where it’s very, and to me it has to be here at this bar. Right doing it has to be but you know, is a very flower bowl. They say they’re gonna put in a flower bed with you versus a flower bed. Right? I mean, on argument.

Brian Zinn
The other thing is that it’s hard to believe that Byron price would bury something on private property. But, you know, sort of like me, and probably a lot of you you didn’t know that this was privately owned, the fountain of youth is privately owned. You think it’s a public park, and maybe he thought it was a public park.

Guest
Well, Boston’s gonna mess that up for you too. I didn’t think he carried the ball field. Like why would you disrespect the ball field? Same as why would you disrespect private property. So there’s a lot of things that we’ve assumed Byron wouldn’t do that. Austin shows us he do it.

Versus the day he’s been telling you this is kind of whatever that battery not everybody.

John Fraser
Well, and again, I don’t know how much you all at the tour that you heard, but I promise you this. If you had met my father, if anybody in this room had ever met my dad, you wouldn’t be there really liked or you would have really not liked him. It would have been reciprocal. And so if this guy either love this big thing got along just swimmingly? Well, in the day, I answered all the questions and saw the passion that my dad had for history and preservation, and all that. And he said, This is where I’m gonna put it. And I’m gonna put it someplace where it was really hard to find because I wanted to stay there a long time. Or you really didn’t like the guy. And he said, I’m gonna confuse everybody. I put all these things here, and I’m gonna bury it somewhere else. So to me, it’s one or the other. It’s either a question there where there has to be some kind of an exit strategy that says, hey, yeah, okay, St. Augustine, you know, we got a lot of this many things here that are part of the county park, but to really somewhere else, like maybe at the base of the cross, you know, the tall tree, people, so don’t ask

Unknown Speaker
me. So I’m very good at this. But I just want to point out, when I look at this very data centric mind, I see that stuff at the top as being very obviously political moves, but my focal point goes downwards allows me possible, and I’ve ever heard you guys talk too much or a little bit Satan represents maybe September, but I see that as being part of probably the solution for some reason. I don’t know why. But that’s where my mind is focused on. All the other stuff is like, the pieces of the puzzle, but the story is being told them alone,

Guest
I agree with him.

John Fraser
Because I see the bigger picture of Florida. And then I see a narrowing further first line in the first chapter was the border, you know, the water that would have come across the ocean, and it would have seen this, okay, this is for the coral flag, or maybe try the palm trees. And then I just think it just go there, that has to mean something replacement of that there, instead of there has to mean something. And I don’t know what that means. Because and this guy has an advantage. He’s actually found one. And then all of these folks have studied multiple puzzles. That’s why I say, I’m not your guy. I don’t want to get them off from the Charleston puzzle, or the Roanoke puzzle or any other puzzle. So there’s a lot of fun because it’s here in my backyard. And but there’s so many other things I’ve got.

Brian Zinn
The question was pointing out the flowers. Some people have actually seen the word St. Augustine written in the stems of the flowers. And I’ve actually seen it myself. It’s, it’s not too much of a stretch, but it’s hard. It’s difficult to see. You’re answer? So you guys

Unknown Speaker
are all very obvious, into the idea of the treasure being in the past, but how much support would you give to someone who has an alternative theory?

George Ward
That’s my question. Okay. So the question, the question is, most of us up here, that most of us up here think that this is in front of you. Not all of us think it’s in the thumb view? I don’t I’m 5050. Right. So how much support would I give to somebody that had an alternate theory a lot. Every everybody so far is pointed at this painting, you know, these are clues for whatever I don’t like just take it in. Once you know, this is in Florida, you can throw this away. Like that gets you latitude and longitude coordinates and it gets you a state and you don’t need this. The verse fits really well on the phone of you, but a lot of the things that fit here, fit in a lot of other places in St. Augustine, like Shell limestone, we got that every Yep. Bending branches there. And so if you can, if you can give me a solution that logically puts you somewhere other than here, I’m right there with it. So far, most of the evidence seems to point to here, but I would wholeheartedly welcome anybody to come up with alternate ideas.

Guest
Hey, Brian Austin, show in New York, out environments passed away. Really, you can say that originally solutions about

John Fraser
security. It’s thought that he’s the only one that was ultimately nowhere. I think that’s not true. But was the cast the only thing that was allowed the Boston claims to be taken? Was there any time to reverse and he saw this picture in the murders without a factory rewarding the gentleman for Boston?

Brian Zinn
So the question was is if you don’t have a cask Would you still be awarded a jam if you had something which looked like a solution? Specifically, specifically Boston. No, no, that was not the fact that he had a possible solution had nothing to do with the reward, they had to find the cask. You don’t necessarily I don’t think you’d necessarily have to find the key, but it was sort of further confirmation that it was a cask, because you can find pieces of ceramic and Plexiglas, but it might not be the cask. And we have Mr. Ward here, who has twice found ceramic and Plexiglas in two different places in the country. And we’re still not exactly sure if he found the cast. Yeah, so he’s not he’s not taking credit to his credit. But I can tell you,

George Ward
if you were up here earlier, you would have seen me and Brian with a bunch of pieces of junk ceramic, or does it match your cast? Yeah.

Brian Zinn
So it’s very close. So he may have found the New Orleans one. He may have found the Charlotte, the Charleston one. But we’re not sure.

George Ward
Yeah. And I will never say, yeah, it’s probably the first time anybody’s ever heard that. Because I don’t like to say it. There’s no key. They’re still out there. Go. Yeah. So

Guest
go find all of the places that you three of the food were found. There was all top we didn’t have to pay to get into?

Brian Zinn
No, no. No, all the places were public that that were found the three that were found.

George Ward
Right. Did you have to pay to get into the Children’s Zoo? And your son runs? You know?

Brian Zinn
Oh, that I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that.

George Ward
So the Houston one, we’re pretty sure it was in the Children’s Zoo. And I’m not sure if you had to pay to get into that or not.

Bradley Hodges
It’s much then you had to go into the normal zoo to access to children’s. So you would have had to unless you went through the back, which is what they were talking about when we when the original podcast was done. For us. It was apparently very easy to access that area.

John Fraser
easy to access.

Unknown Speaker
Like when you were in New York, I’m sure that there was a lot of other conversations that happened that would have aired

Guest
on an expedition that you can share with us that maybe didn’t make the cut.

Brian Zinn
The question was is when? When I was filming in New York, on the last episode, episode of Expedition unknown, were there conversations that didn’t make the air way? Well, I mean, we were there all day. So yes. John Palin car was great at telling very funny stories. One thing that I don’t think aired, is that the in the Boston painting, were wondering why the bubble next to the bird was there. And he said, that was the Boston Pops. The Boston Pops, the Yes, it’s the bird trying to pop the bubble. So there were other things too, but I thought that was an amusing one that I remember. Now, he didn’t talk about St. Augustine at all. No.

George Ward
In fact, he won’t. He won’t talk about cities. He will not. I’ll tell you a funny story. When Boston came out, we’ve desperately wanted to get it. We desperately wanted to get it authenticated. Because we didn’t necessarily know what was going on in the on Expedition unknown side. But we wanted at least the community to know what has been found. So we reached out to a couple of people, we reached out to Joe Allen trilling who told us she couldn’t comment. And when reached out to John Palancar, who said, I don’t think there’s one in Boston. So there you go. Anything that you hear from the creators of but like the creators of the hunt, really likes fire. And they’re gonna they’ll they’ll give you misinformation. Like if you if you try to reach out to them, they’ll give you misinformation. They’ll give you just outright wrong information, they’ll lie about it, they will not help. So it doesn’t surprise me that he really didn’t say anything.

Guest
At first for a second 12 treasures website I know you’re expanding somewhere and either heard on the podcast or heard it on Facebook or read on Facebook that you were going to basically crowdsource a sponsor certain previous search spots to eliminate different questions especially Mr. Fraser, that might help him in his world progression certainly to help others not at places that have already been done, but still going to happen.

George Ward
So so the question is whether or not we’re going to make make basically whether or not we’re gonna make a map of dig spots, we’re gonna try what the problem is you can’t trust, you know, like a control. So well, yeah, here here we could, we could look, we could make a map of the fountain of youth and log everywhere that’s been done absolutely.

John Fraser
Never do it anyway.

Guest
Make a suggestion is, when you have those data, you can just have verified and unverified. These last two are you talking about on the podcast, we’re gonna vary some cash to do some GPR tests. Because we don’t compete. He talked about them being previously TPR. So like, I guess part of the question is, is are you still gonna do that. The other part is, is if it’s already been GPR, and you’re still under making requests that are previously GPR spots that haven’t been done.

John Fraser
If they’re close to, you can’t you can get the GPR pretty close, but you can’t get it right up against something. So if somebody wanted to dig in a particular area at the base of the St. Old magnolia tree stump, next to the wall on Magnolia Avenue, if they really wanted to do that, I would probably allow it, you know, and so yeah, yep, that’s your specific, you got a nice, you got a good spot your theory, whatever your theory is, if it if I can make sense of why it is you believe what you do, and you know, I won’t try to change your mind. And I’ll do what I can to facilitate digging in that particular spot, even though there was a GPR. Very, very close to it. You know, we’re talking about a box about like that. So you know, this a chance that you wouldn’t have gotten it even in tree roots. You know, we got real close to those tree roots. I mean, really close to it. But again, really hard to get to the bottom of everything. Well, how many spots do we had there? The one day we did the entire area between the planetarium and the green picket fence? Yeah, I mean, we must have had, what 20 flags? Yeah, we put

Guest
the GRE up to make the main effect, because you’re going to, you’re going to encode a box to fill up the water filled with dirt. So you can have a different GRC. So that’s already

Brian Zinn
you but we had we had GPR experts that were telling us plant the flag wherever there’s a possible cast. And they were like, like John said, so many of them are like 20 of them.

George Ward
People, people are really putting their faith in GPRS when they shouldn’t. If a crack like this box, if there’s a crack in this box, and mud gets into it, you’re essentially looking for packed dirt around something made out of packed dirt. Right, the GPR is not gonna see it very well. So while we wish GPRS were like a miracle cure for this hunt. They’re just not.

Brian Zinn
Right. And so it’s been almost 40 years that the boxes are in the ground. So I don’t know if there’s going to if we’re ever going to find one. That’s Whole Again, it will probably just be pieces. And I don’t think a GPR is going to pick that up. You can use a handheld Magellan was a little geo located

okay with that technology. Okay, cool. Someone suggested a handheld Magellan, or isn’t it another type device? Okay. Okay, I didn’t know,

George Ward
you’re talking about for the big spots? Basically a GPS, okay. And they’ll GPS, yeah.

Brian Zinn
Okay. And then those can be geo referenced and put into a

Guest
GIS report and

George Ward
getting people to access a GIS map, though, they could easily roll to anyone.

Brian Zinn
And by the way, making maps of paths of where people have dug that might work at the fountain of youth, but most places are not going to verify or not verify, like for example, the Elizabethan gardens in Roanoke, they actually put on their website, the treasure is not here. As if they know. But they don’t want people digging, you will be shot on site. So they’re not going to let anybody do so. So we have anything else. Mr. Fraser, this isn’t a question per se. Yes, they extension of a thank you, I think from all of us here, first of all, allowing us to send in some more queries, and still giving us the opportunity to come for a more deep

John Fraser
please, please be patient with us. Because ever since the you know, every time it’s on every station, it’s on Expedition unknown. You know, they look at it, they go, Oh, St. Augustine, these are weapons. So we are getting a lot more, a lot more. And I’ll do what I can to facilitate what I can and answer the questions. You know, that’s one of the reasons why I’m doing this is just, you know, trying to just, you know, get enough questions out there where folks know that that there wasn’t a while here. inviting anyone there was no no doc, though, does know that things have changed, you know, some landmarks. Thank you, thank you very much appreciate it. We’re happy to do it.

Guest
If they’ve been destroyed, excavating,

George Ward
I don’t think I think I think 80 years from now somebody will be looking for the last couple of them.

John Fraser
Yeah. And the ground changes so much to me, whether it’s sprinkler sprinkler lines, that are dug foundations or new buildings that building this building. I mean, there’s so many trees that pop that pop out and go in, I mean, someone that doesn’t know what I know what all you know about it, I could throw it away and not know that it was important.

Brian Zinn
So but you know, with with advanced technology, with technology, how it advances, eventually, I think that we’ll have the technology where we can do X rays of the ground, and I think that’s when we’ll find them all.

Guest
They can drain the ocean, they just haven’t been able to empty soil. So I guess,

Unknown Speaker
come in and grow, or what’s the proper protocol for doing?

John Fraser
Well, the thing you can, the thing I would recommend doing is put it in writing, put in writing send a letter to the fountain of youth. As of now I’m reviewing all the requests. But admittedly, I’m at a point now where I have a tremendous number of them. And I’m taking care of them a couple of hours a week, a couple of them a week and calling people back and taking care of that, but but emails, my while they might be great for a lot of folks, emails are not good for us or not good for me. Because you write in there with about 300 to 350 other books in the middlee 300 More advertisements, everyone goes, but I have a tremendous amount of them. I don’t if I go a couple of days, you try to adjust your spam filter, and then sometimes they go into spam. So the letter works out really well. I mean, it really does. And if you want to send it not overnight, because that’s a lot of money. But you know, if you send it, you know, priority, believe me. It kind of you have to do that every night, but everybody’s got something I can tell you, I don’t want to tell you what to do the other things, but you know, to get attention, folks have done a number of interesting things. And and they’ve gotten my attention. Yeah, at the very least you get a you get a phone call back real quickly. You get you get some some questions answered or we do it again. So Tony’s question

George Ward
last last, last question.

I was yes. Very good. So

Bradley Hodges
just so we had an audience member make the comment that they know they were joking, but they said, Just come in at 3am. So what’s going to happen to that person that shows up at 3am today without permission?

John Fraser
Well, here, here’s the deal. If you show up at three at 3am, and one of the cameras happens to catch it in the security, they contact the police, the police show up and the police arrest you if you’re on the property, if you’re here during the day, and you would be really surprised how many folks during the day between the hours of nine and five, come in here with a probe down their legs, a shovel up their back. You know, whatever it is, it’s amazing to me and they will just go to a spot and just start digging. If they’re caught probing, they’re nicely asked to go back to the car and please put the probe in the car. And then if you want to come back, you can come back. We allow them to do that. It’s a mistake. Yeah, I know they probably stunk at thing and if we catch it, but the best thing for us to do is just to catchment to take it off as if they come in and they actually start digging a hole. Then we call the police immediately police get called the police do come in and rare circumstances they don’t call the police, especially if children are involved. And you know, because we don’t want to scare the heck out of the kids. But we really do. Try to make it good for the folks that do things the right way. But picture the cameras at night are an interesting or an interesting thing. We have had to police here I’ve actually been here and I’ve had some of the funniest conversations with folks that have jumped the fence at 10am 3am It’s uh, I mean most of them are drunk I mean most of them been drinking they come over and they go Do you want to do I don’t want to go home now. This treasure thing here you know, they come in and they fall on the ground you know they fall in the Spanish band collapse on their hands and and the police are always there and it’s a lot of fun that you know we he has he has they’re fun because now everybody in the police department knows about the whole thing and and so you know the God Frazier here you gotta go to the park again. Let’s go Yes, ma’am. Other people over there your mail or how would you ensure that you know, if you mail that’s another thing. And I hate to reveal all the secrets of a dinosaur organization like like the one I have here but I opened every piece of mail. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a bill an advertisement on a check a complaint letter, I open every single piece of mail, I read every single thing that comes through here, every single letter, whether I’m on vacation or not, if they if I am on vacation, that yes, they do get opened by other folks. But I get a stack of everything and a copy of everything that happens to be sent to the accountant. So anything you send to John Fraser care, the Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park, or fountain youth park or on selling on Incorporated, whatever, you know, I’m gonna I’m gonna see it. I mean, less, I’m sick, good Lord willing, you know, I’ll see it. I’ll stack it, I’ll respond to it. The easy ones, I’ll get back like that. The difficult ones, I just go again, that’s gonna take a while because I do have a stack of a stack in my office right now that that are amazing, but I’m doing the best I can with that. And I may, one day you get another credit call from somebody that somebody else, you know, you know, but right now it’s me. It’s only me, because no one else really knows the whole story as well as I do. So that’s how that I read all

Guest
falling off. Well. Yeah. That’s the

John Fraser
Superman over here. Yeah, that’s superman.

George Ward
You got any closing comments?

Bradley Hodges
No, no, I just want to thank everybody for coming out and say thank you guys. Thank you to the members that are watching online. And obviously to the ones that are listening to this podcast, we really appreciate your involvement. The community is what it’s all about. So thank you very much. We want everybody to have an opportunity to see the cast. Again, just a reminder, please don’t judge us and it’s a it’s already broken up. But please, if you’d like to see the cast, kind of file on the line on that side of the room would be awesome. And if you have not received a bag yet, thank you back, returning. So if your group has not received one cup Okay, thank you, John. Thank you, Brian. Thank you. You ready, everybody?

George Ward
We’re about to get started. Open. You will do us all. Andy Abrams was the second person we found Cleveland. You couldn’t be here today. But he’s on the phone. Would everybody say hi?

Brian Zinn
Did you hear that? Can you hear that?

Can you hear him? No, they can’t. Can you hear me? No, but they’ll hear it in the podcast.

He’s loud. He’s loud. Okay. All right. Yes.